How do I Unthaw yard hydrant underground?
jakes...@unlisted.com
part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
wire down). Its frozen under the ground. I know it's not to the
bottom, because its down at least 5 feet into the ground. Its frozen
below the surface. I have concrete around it, but there's a 1 inck
gap around the pipe, and I did have the heat tape down a few inches,
but I found that right below that tape the ground is frozen because I
tried to drive a piece of steel rebar into the soil.
I put a propane torch on the pipe right above the concrete level and
got water to boil out the top, but it's still not working and cant
lift the plunger. Is there some sort of electrical rod that I could
drive melt into the ground or anything made for that? I did dump some
boiling water around it too. I capped the top so I can use the rest
of the water on the property. and have an electric heater next to the
pipe, (heat tape is off now, so I could use torch). This hydrant is
in a small room, so that electric heater should heat the room but it's
not going to get what is underground. Anyone have any ideas what to
do?
Then, when I do get it unthawed, what can I do under the concrete
level to keep it thawed? They say not to put that heat tape
underground. I did have it down abiut 2 inches into the concrete, but
not more. I sure cant think of any other way to do it.
IDEAS NEEDED????
Thanks
Jake
Dean Hoffman
A former co worker would use a DC welder to thaw pipes. He'd clamp
the probes on either side of the frozen section. It doesn't sound
practical for your problem though.
Hank
I can't physically see your problem, so this is just a guess. If the
hydrant is 5 feet below ground, inside a room, it is highly unlikely
it is frozen due to cold temps. I think you have bigger problems and
should investigate the possibility of having to repair whatever the
mechanical problem is.
Hank
Fat Dumb & Happy
If if if, the line isn't plastic, if ya can make a circuit with the
ice block in the circuit, if ya can get enough current to flow, if you
don't electrocute some cows and chickens,
this ought to work,
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=8719
In this copy of The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding (12th ed. 1973)
that I just bought there is a section on using an arc welder to thaw
frozen pipes. Now I can't imagine that this is a practice that Lincoln
would be wanting to promote today in these litigious times; in fact they
must be freaking out that there are still these old copies of the
handbook out there with a how-to on burning your house down with a
Lincoln HD Tombstone
Hank
To make my statement above more clear........ If, in fact it is
frozen, that tells you that the hole that lets the water drain out of
the hyrant is not working correctly (plugged?). There for it will need
repaired to whatever extent it takes to open the drain hole.
Hank
The Daring Dufas
Whenever I want to "unthaw" something, I put it in a freezer or spray it
with liquid CO2. If I wish to "thaw" something, I apply heat to melt
the ice. I've used the wide flame torch heads on small propane torches,
a heat gun or a big torch that fits a 20lb propane tank.
http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
TDD
Liz Megerle
unplugged) by pumping hot water down to the ice through a piece of
rubber tubing. It was a small pump used for cleaning beer lines,
powered by an electric drill.
tn...@mucks.net
>Then, when I do get it unthawed, what can I do under the concrete
>level to keep it thawed?
If you can get below the surface then coil some tubing around
the underground pipe. thread your electrical tape through this.
The tubing should protect the tape.
dpb
...
> Then, when I do get it unthawed, what can I do under the concrete
> level to keep it thawed? They say not to put that heat tape
> underground. I did have it down abiut 2 inches into the concrete, but
> not more. I sure cant think of any other way to do it.
...
If it's a frost-free and the foot-valve is below frost line, the problem
is the weep hole is plugged so it's not draining--there shouldn't be any
water in the vertical standpipe to freeze so there's no need to keep it
warm.
The real solution (as much as you're not going to like it) is to make
enough of an access to dig it up and fix that problem.
In the short term, I'd try a long ship auger bit or similar and drill a
hole (or two) alongside the pipe and drop the heat tape down it. It'll
be ok for a temporary.
--
dpb
...
> If it's a frost-free and the foot-valve is below frost line, ...
If those are true so there's simply a plug, you might since you have the
top open try either a piece of 3/8" or such rod w/ a pointy end and see
if can break thru physically the ice layer. Or, assuming the 1-1/4"
standpipe or similar, a half or 3/4" piece of pipe ought to work, too.
Iff'en it's not too thick of a block, that might well be enough w/ a few
love taps...
--
Hank
If you're not in a big hurry you might try dumping some RV antifreeze
down there as you try to thaw it. RV antifreeze wont hurt any animals.
Hank
Dean Hoffman
> I have a yard hydrant in my barn. It had heat tape on it, and the top
> part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
> wire down). Its frozen under the ground. I know it's not to the
> bottom, because its down at least 5 feet into the ground. Its frozen
> below the surface. I have concrete around it, but there's a 1 inck
> gap around the pipe, and I did have the heat tape down a few inches,
> but I found that right below that tape the ground is frozen because I
> tried to drive a piece of steel rebar into the soil.
What about one of those dipstick oil heaters?
mm
>jakes...@unlisted.com wrote:
>...
>
>> Then, when I do get it unthawed, what can I do under the concrete
>> level to keep it thawed? They say not to put that heat tape
>> underground. I did have it down abiut 2 inches into the concrete, but
>> not more. I sure cant think of any other way to do it.
>...
>
>If it's a frost-free and the foot-valve is below frost line, the problem
>is the weep hole is plugged so it's not draining--there shouldn't be any
>water in the vertical standpipe to freeze so there's no need to keep it
>warm.
>
>The real solution (as much as you're not going to like it) is to make
>enough of an access to dig it up and fix that problem.
A url that was posted in another thread today, perhaps with a somewhat
related name, said that the hole can get frozen by the continued use
of small amounts of water. That is, maybe it needs no repair, just a
change in habits. And it gave other reasons why it would freeze.
It also said that the way to solve this is to pour [boiling?] hot
water down the the hole until the ice melts. I guess you shoudl have
plenty avaible aso that the hotwater doesnt' get cold and freeze too.
The OP should find this thread -- I can't seem to -- and read the url.
It gives a some details.
Here it is:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex641
Read the whole thing but
"A hydrant can freeze due to improper valve adjustment, a saturated
drainage bed, a plugged drain hole, or improper use, such as
incomplete shut off or the constant withdrawal of only small amounts
of water.
Should a hydrant freeze, it should be thawed as soon as possible to
avoid damage. Hydrants frozen above ground level can usually be thawed
by heating with an electric heat tape, a torch or hot water. If the
hydrant is frozen below ground level, the head will have to be removed
and hot water poured down the inside of the riser pipe. This step is
most easily accomplished by soldering a copper tube to a funnel and
pouring the hot water through the funnel and tube to the point where
the ice has formed. The tube is pushed down the riser pipe as the ice
melts."
I woudl email this to the OP if he gave a real address.
mm
jakes...@unlisted.com wrote:
>I have a yard hydrant in my barn. It had heat tape on it, and the top
>part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
>wire down). Its frozen under the ground.
> I know it's not to the
>bottom, because its down at least 5 feet into the ground. Its frozen
>below the surface.
Three it's in the last two sentences. I don't understand the first two
of them or the sentence they are in. What do the it'ses refer to?
...
tra...@optonline.net
Happy"@BigScreen.Moe> wrote:
> In this copy of The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding (12th ed. 1973)
> that I just bought there is a section on using an arc welder to thaw
> frozen pipes. Now I can't imagine that this is a practice that Lincoln
> would be wanting to promote today in these litigious times; in fact they
> must be freaking out that there are still these old copies of the
> handbook out there with a how-to on burning your house down with a
>
> - Show quoted text -
There's just about zero risk of burning down the house, unless the
welder drops a lit cigarette. There isn't any arcing or welding going
on
. What is going on is the welder is used to pass current through
metal piping
to gradually heat it enough to melt the ice inside. One cable gets
securely clamped to each end of the pipe, where accessible. I've
seen it done on 50 -75ft runs of pipe. Takes an hour or two.
tra...@optonline.net
> jakesm2...@unlisted.com wrote:
> >I have a yard hydrant in my barn. It had heat tape on it, and the top
> >part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
> >wire down). Its frozen under the ground.
> > I know it's not to the
> >bottom, because its down at least 5 feet into the ground. Its frozen
> >below the surface.
>
> Three it's in the last two sentences. I don't understand the first two
> of them or the sentence they are in. What do the it'ses refer to?
> ...
>
>
There's a lot that isn't clear. Leading me to wonder if it's really
frozen
where he thinks it is, or somewhere completely different. If this
thing
is in a barn, ie reasonably protected, goes straight down 5ft, and has
heat tape on it, one would tend to doubt that it froze there. Perhaps
there is somewhere else the pipe is more exposed?
FatterDumber& Happier Moe
I gotta ask, were you trading options at the time?
dpb
...
> There's a lot that isn't clear. Leading me to wonder if it's really
> frozen
> where he thinks it is, or somewhere completely different. If this
> thing
> is in a barn, ie reasonably protected, goes straight down 5ft, and has
> heat tape on it, one would tend to doubt that it froze there. Perhaps
> there is somewhere else the pipe is more exposed?
Except'n he's said the pull rod won't...that's pretty clear.
Now, there may be other points in the line froze first and it's just
progressed this direction, but I'll venture OP's correct in that there's
a frozen plug in the standpipe.
We've got half-dozen and have had since as long as I can remember (which
is back towards 50 yrs or more now) and in all those times the only
causes have been either the weep is plugged, the drain area saturated or
they didn't shut off absolutely tight so filled the standpipe.
Only the last of those is fixable w/o access to the foot, unfortunately,
and can either be the adjustment isn't quite tight enough or the rubber
on the stop has worn or gotten a set so doesn't seal. Theoretically, a
seat could go bad but I've never in all that time had to replace one;
only way I would see that happening would be if someone were to do the
silly of trying to use one as a control valve instead of off/on.
--
bud--
> connect one cable to the metal hydrant pipe. That part is clear. But
> you have to connect the other cable to the other end of the pipe.
> Well, that end is under the ground. How the heck do you connect to
> that end without digging it up? (Which digging would be impossible in
> winter anyhow, without machinery, and if dug up, the hydrant may as
> well be replaced). Most underground piping is plastic these days too,
> so that eliminates connecting the welder to something like another
> hydrant, which would likely be a hundred feet away (or more), and
> think how long the welder cables would need to be. This just is not
> making sense to me.
You connect it to metal somewhere else where the pipe surfaces.
Obviously this won't work if part of the path is plastic.
>
> I also doubt any animals would get electrocuted. Welders only operate
> at 24 volts or so. It's just lots of amps. I've gotten a tingle
> several times when welding on wet ground if my shoes are wet. It dont
> feel good, but wont kill anyone. The solution when that happened was
> to just stand on a piece of dry plywood. Changing to dry shoes also
> helps, but the plywood seemed to work best. (or both).
>
One infrequent hazard I have seen a warning for is if you are using an
electric welder to heat the water service pipe for a building - other
end a fire hydrant, with a metal municipal water supply. Since electric
services are connected to the water service pipe as a grounding
electrode, a possible parallel path is "grounding electrode conductor"
to service, to neutral through N-G bond, to another house through the
service neutrals, to that house's water service pipe through the
"grounding electrode conductor". You could have high currents in an
adjacent house that has rarely caused a fire. Temporarily removing the
system ground wire and water meter is probably a good idea (but could
rarely be hazardous in in itself).
--
bud--
kafos...@gmail.com
kafos...@gmail.com
kafos...@gmail.com
kafos...@gmail.com
Stormin Mormon
Though, with the cold this week, might need to
"unthaw" it again.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
micky
>On Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:28:52 AM UTC-8, jakes...@unlisted.com wrote:
>> I have a yard hydrant in my barn. It had heat tape on it, and the top
>> part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
>> wire down). Its frozen under the ground. I know it's not to the
>>
>> IDEAS NEEDED????
Let it thaw for 3 consecutive summers, If that doesnt' do it, wait
until spring.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jake
Dan Espen
> On Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:28:52 AM UTC-8, jakes...@unlisted.com wrote:
>> I have a yard hydrant in my barn. It had heat tape on it, and the top
>> part above the ground was not frozen (I took off the head and put a
>> wire down). Its frozen under the ground. I know it's not to the
>> bottom, because its down at least 5 feet into the ground. Its frozen
>> below the surface. I have concrete around it, but there's a 1 inck
>> gap around the pipe, and I did have the heat tape down a few inches,
>> but I found that right below that tape the ground is frozen because I
>> tried to drive a piece of steel rebar into the soil.
>>
>> I put a propane torch on the pipe right above the concrete level and
>> got water to boil out the top, but it's still not working and cant
>> lift the plunger. Is there some sort of electrical rod that I could
>> drive melt into the ground or anything made for that? I did dump some
>> boiling water around it too. I capped the top so I can use the rest
>> of the water on the property. and have an electric heater next to the
>> pipe, (heat tape is off now, so I could use torch). This hydrant is
>> in a small room, so that electric heater should heat the room but it's
>> not going to get what is underground. Anyone have any ideas what to
>> do?
>> Then, when I do get it unthawed, what can I do under the concrete
>> level to keep it thawed? They say not to put that heat tape
>> underground. I did have it down abiut 2 inches into the concrete, but
>> not more. I sure cant think of any other way to do it.
>>
>> IDEAS NEEDED????
You must be pretty far north...
--
Dan Espen
Tony Hwang
Unthawed? Do you want to have it thawed or unthawed? IMO,
nothing much can be done right now. Wait for spring/summer.
KG
Remove as much water as possible from above the frozen water, add a few cups of rock
salt, Redo the above procedure until well is open.
To reply to this message please remove the AT
after the kgs1 in the reply to address.
To a conservatist's it truly is a free country,
YOU may do whatever they wish. KG
The Daring Dufas
TDD
Tekkie®
And I know how to SNIP
survivors?
--
Tekkie
Ed Pawlowski
>
> If a plane crashes on the border between US & Canada where do they bury the
> survivors?
>
some have been buried by now.
The Daring Dufas
TDD
The Daring Dufas
younger are dead now. I outlived them! ^_^
TDD
Stormin Mormon
Tekkie®
And I know how to SNIP
>
> > The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...
> >
> >
> > bury the survivors?
> >
> Before or after they're unthawed? ^_^
>
> TDD
--
Tekkie
Tekkie®
And I know how to SNIP
>
> >
> >>
> >> If a plane crashes on the border between US & Canada where do they
> >> bury the survivors?
> >>
> >
> > First time I heard that question was probably 40 years ago. I bet
> > some have been buried by now.
>
> I often think that all the people who may have mistreated me when I was
> younger are dead now. I outlived them! ^_^
>
> TDD
--
Tekkie
Bob the farmer
I'm not sure about how to thaw it out ,but one of the main reasons they freeze
up is from leaving a hose connected when turning it off.It will usually not
drain a long hose and ends up leaving water in the hydrant to freeze
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/how-do-i-unthaw-yard-hydrant-underground-616741-.htm
Wayne Boatwright
> replying to jakesm2010, Bob the farmer wrote:
> I'm not sure about how to thaw it out ,but one of the main reasons
> they freeze up is from leaving a hose connected when turning it
> off.It will usually not drain a long hose and ends up leaving
> water in the hydrant to freeze
>
where the valve portion was tucked deeply inside the house structure.
Of course, if you fail to drain your hose, any water past the valve
is subject to freezing.
--
~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~
~~ A mind is a terrible thing to lose. ~~
**********************************************************
Wayne Boatwright