Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys get creosote?
mm
get creosote?
One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
mm
wrote:
>The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys
>get creosote?
>
>One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
Googling oil furnace soot xxxxx keeps finding sites that tell me
I should inspect and use soot sticks daily. I guess these are
commercial furnaces they are talking about.
Do any of you who have oil heat ever use a soot stick, or do you wait
for the oil burner serviceman?
The Daring Dufas
Creosote produced by an oil furnace? Not likely if you know the
definition of what it is. An oil furnace can produce deposits
but I don't think it can be described as creosote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote
TDD
mm
I gogogled creosote and oil furnace but didnt' think to look up
creostote itself.
These chimney sweeps and their company are such liars. First he told
me the chimney pipes, tthe stove pipe that goes to thhe chimney was
too dirty to be cleaned, that it would ruin their brush and wouldn't
come clean anyhow, and wanted 685 dollars to replace the pipes, single
wall galvanized steel stove pipe, 6 feet of it with 4 right angles,
with no promise that the chimnney wouldn't need repair work when they
got to that.
The woman who answers the phone there told me he told her I had 1 1/2
inches of soot, even though he told me I had 1/4 to 1/2 inch. After I
pointed that out, she said maybe the phone was bad, but he definitely
said it was the worst he'd ever seen.
And wny the pipes couldn't be cleaned, because of the creosote. Even
though she knew this was the oil furnace chimney and there is none.
The otther company I called is busy until Feb 1 and I'm trying to
choose between that company and another which can come much sooner and
is cheaper. The first is 50 dollar more than the liars, and the
second is the same price as the liars, 125. I just hate to think that
anyone who charges 125 is a liar and a thief.
Smitty Two
mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I just hate to think that
> anyone who charges 125 is a liar and a thief.
Sanity is the acceptance of reality at any cost. Liars and thieves cross
all socio-economic boundaries.
Ed Pawlowski
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:52hgi6h7i6ru4fs51...@4ax.com...
> The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys
> get creosote?
>
> One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
You need a new chimney sweep. You may get soot, but creosote comes as a
byproduct of wood burning. Most times it is not all that dangerous so take
your time to find the right guy. Few people ever clean an oil furnace
flue. I had my boiler replaced and after 30 years, it still did not need
cleaning.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in
message news:ig9kgt$ctk$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Frank
I second your comments.
I had to go through three guys to find a decent chimney guy.
One moron even went up on the snowy roof and would have fallen off if I
had not held the ladder.
harry
Creosote (and tar) come from burning wood and certain sorts of coal.
In chimneys they are the result of unburned hydrocarbons condensing
out on cold chimneys.
You don't get them in chimneys from domestic oil burner because all
the hevy fractions (tars etc) were refined out when the oil was
produced.
What you get in the chimney is an accumulation of mostly unburned
carbon, sulphur and a few other nasties that might have got through
the process.
"Soot sticks" are an attempt to try and elevated the chimney
temperature sufficently to burn this stuff out. In my experience they
don't work. (Unless the technology has improved but I doubt it).
The only way to clear the chimney is still the old fashionsed way by
brushes.
Filthy job but unavoidable. You can make things a lot easier by making
sure you burner is correctly set up when less soot will be formed.
mm
wrote:
>On Jan 8, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys
>> get creosote?
>>
>> One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
>
>Creosote (and tar) come from burning wood and certain sorts of coal.
>In chimneys they are the result of unburned hydrocarbons condensing
>out on cold chimneys.
>You don't get them in chimneys from domestic oil burner because all
>the hevy fractions (tars etc) were refined out when the oil was
>produced.
> What you get in the chimney is an accumulation of mostly unburned
>carbon, sulphur and a few other nasties that might have got through
>the process.
>"Soot sticks" are an attempt to try and elevated the chimney
>temperature sufficently to burn this stuff out. In my experience they
>don't work. (Unless the technology has improved but I doubt it).
Do you think soot sticks work in the firebox itself? I've seen
furnace guys throw them in. One guy even used two, one after
another. iirc.
I think that was at the end of their vacuuming the box, so that after
they got everything they could that way, they burned off as much as
they could.
mm
<frankperi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On 1/8/2011 8:51 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> ?
>> "mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:52hgi6h7i6ru4fs51...@4ax.com...
>>> The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys
>>> get creosote?
>>>
>>> One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
>>
>> You need a new chimney sweep. You may get soot, but creosote comes as a
>> byproduct of wood burning. Most times it is not all that dangerous so
>> take your time to find the right guy. Few people ever clean an oil
>> furnace flue. I had my boiler replaced and after 30 years, it still did
>> not need cleaning.
That's good to hear. About four years ago, something was wrong with
the burning, and I did end up with 1 1/2 inches of soot all around
inside the stove pipe to the chimney. The furnace guy from the oil
company who came out fully cleaned the stove pipe but didnt' suggest I
clean the chimney. It seems to me, it might be especially dirty too.
Don't you think so?
>I second your comments.
>I had to go through three guys to find a decent chimney guy.
>One moron even went up on the snowy roof and would have fallen off if I
>had not held the ladder.
He may have been stupid but at least he was diligent. The last
company, the woman on the phone said they always clean from the roof
and the ground, but they arrived 15 minutes before dark, and had
another stop to make after they left my house at 5:45PM, an hour later
.
Ed Pawlowski
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote
>
>>I second your comments.
>>I had to go through three guys to find a decent chimney guy.
>>One moron even went up on the snowy roof and would have fallen off if I
>>had not held the ladder.
>
> He may have been stupid but at least he was diligent. The last
> company, the woman on the phone said they always clean from the roof
> and the ground, but they arrived 15 minutes before dark, and had
> another stop to make after they left my house at 5:45PM, an hour later
> .
When the SAT TV guy was here late in the day I asked him what they do when
it get dark and have to go on the roof. He said they use a flashlight, but
keep on working.
mm
wrote:
I'm sure he does then.
It's conceivable that the guy I had woudl have, but I do't think so.
:)
mm
I hadn't read this all the way through.
It says "Burning wood and fossil fuels at low temperature causes..."
==> Fuel oil is a fossil fuel so maybe it's saying one can get
creosote from an oil furnace. Even you say it's "not likely".
I probably don't have any, but I don't want to make a point of telling
her boss she lied about this, or mentioning it on the ratings pages,
if she can then point to the possibility, no matter how remote, that
it is true in some cases.
"....incomplete combustion of the oils in the wood, which are
off-gassed as volatiles in the smoke. As the smoke rises through the
chimney it cools, causing water, carbon, and volatiles to condense on
the interior surfaces of the chimney flue. This leaves a black oily
residue referred to as "creosote", which is similar in composition to
the commercial products by the same name, but with a higher content of
carbon black."
>TDD
The Daring Dufas
Perhaps if you were burning bunker oil and limited the combustion air?
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bunker-fuel.htm
TDD
benick
news:1_idnVugdNxB9rXQ...@giganews.com...
I had the top of my chimmney replaced from just below the roofline up when I
had my roof replaced due to loose bricks and crappy flashing and my chimmney
was fine...Never been cleaned since 1966..I suspect they are feeding you a
line of BS...I have NEVER heard of cleaning a chimmney with just an oil
furnace or boiler on it...Just wood burning chimmneys twice a
year...HTH....
mm
wrote:
Yes it does help. Your story and the other similar one.
This accounts for why the first chimney sweep for the fireplace didn't
even suggest that he clean the furnace chimney. I've wondered about
that.
Still, in light of that bad year when I had all that soot in the stove
pipe, I think I should do it this once. It's only 125 or 170.
I also read that if there is no chimney cap, as there wasn't for a
couple months many years ago, the rain can get in and make sulfuric
acid out of the sulfer in the soot, but otoh this seemed to be mostly
about factory chimneys where they burned grade 6 oil. Grades 1 and 2,
used in homes, weren't mentioned as having much sulfur, but maybe that
is because the furnaces are smaller.
The first woman on the phone said that they could tell how much dirt
came out, but when the guys got here, they said yes for the fireplace
and no for the furnace. I said can't you just see how full the bag in
the vacuum is, but they didn't reply. So I may never know if it
needed it or not. And really, that's as important to me as getting it
cleaned is. I'm curious -- that's first, and I want to know if I
wasted my money, and if I hadnt' heard from you, I'd want to know if I
should do it again.
mm
<the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote:
Okay. Great. Then I'll go back to calling her a liar! At least
I'll tell her boss that the repair guys are lying to her or she's
lying to me. (Even though I'm sure she's in on it, and probably the
boss is too.)
>http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bunker-fuel.htm
>
>TDD
"Bunker fuel is also known as fuel oil, and a number of different
===> But that is what I burn, fuel oil. Grade 1 or 2. He seems to
say that all grades are bunker oil.
classifications around the world are used to describe fuel oil; these
classifications break bunker fuel into different categories based on
its chemical composition, intended purpose, and boiling temperature.
In comparison with other petroleum products, bunker fuel is extremely
crude and highly polluting."
The Daring Dufas
Most North Americans will think of thick almost crude oil when someone
mentions "bunker oil". The bottom of the barrel stuff that ships and
power plants may use as fuel because it has the consistency of molasses.
Because of its long chain molecules and carbon content, it does produce
more energy per unit volume when used as fuel. It would be interesting
to have a little heat plant using the stuff to produce heat for one or
a group of homes. Hot water or steam would probably be the best way to
distribute the heat from the mini plant. :-)
TDD
harry
wrote:
> On 1/9/2011 7:52 AM, mm wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 20:24:08 -0600, The Daring Dufas
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have run steam boilers on that evil stuff, known over here as
residual fuel oil. It is all the shit left over after the distillation
process. It has to kept heated, heated some more to pump it and heated
some more again to burn it. Not the stuff to keep in your back yard
and full of all sort of contaminant from sulphur to cadmium.
They did a lot of district heating in the 2nd world with this stuff.
Ed Pawlowski
> mentions "bunker oil". The bottom of the barrel stuff that ships and
> power plants may use as fuel because it has the consistency of molasses.
> Because of its long chain molecules and carbon content, it does produce
> more energy per unit volume when used as fuel. It would be interesting
> to have a little heat plant using the stuff to produce heat for one or
> a group of homes. Hot water or steam would probably be the best way to
> distribute the heat from the mini plant. :-)
>
> TDD
Many large cities do have steam lines running from power plants to users.
The most efficient way to move energy is high pressure steam and then reduce
the pressure at the point of use. Hospitals use steam for heating and power
generation too. One that I know of gets one to two tanker trucks of #6 oil
a day. They make heat and some electricity with steam turbines so they have
power available at any time if the utility company ever goes down in a
storm, etc. The power plant is located about a half block away from the
hospital. They make steam at 250 psi and distribute it to the hospital
buildings where it is reduced as needed. You can put a lot of steam in a
smaller pipe with higher pressure.
The Daring Dufas
I had a warehouse a block away from the Alabama Power Powell Avenue
Steam Plant in Birmingham some years ago. It's been around forever
and will soon be shut down. I don't know what is used for fuel but
I'm guessing that it was converted to natural gas long ago.
http://www.bhamwiki.com/w/Powell_Avenue_Steam_Plant
TDD
The Daring Dufas
OOPS! Wiki says it burns coal, It must have scrubbers because I don't
remember seeing smoke. :-)
TDD
mm
wrote:
>?
Yes, now that you mention it. The U of Chicago had a steam plant on
Cottage Grove Avenue and it provided heat for, I guess, all the school
buildings, 20 or 30, 1/4 to to 1/2 mile away, maybe more.
But despite that, when I got to NY, I used to wonder about the steam
coming out of the manhole covers in Manhattan**. You can see this in
the opening scenes of one or two tv shows. I believe it was from the
steam plant on the East River in the 30's or 20's
Wow, there are four of them, at
# 74th Street Station (at FDR Drive)
# 60th Street Station (at York Ave.)
# 59th Street Station (at 11th Ave.)
# East River Station (14th St. and FDR) (cogeneration)
making both electricity and steam but of course the steam is the
interesting part.
The New York Steam Company began providing service in lower Manhattan
in 1882.
**Clouds of condensation can sometimes be seen rising from manholes in
Manhattan, although this is usually caused by external water being
boiled by contact with the steam pipes, rather than leaks in the steam
system itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
--end quote
There are 3 more in Brooklyn and Queens but I don't think the steam
leaves the property.
>
mm
wrote:
>On Jan 9, 2:08 pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
Well, thanks you too.
It's very interesting.
And it means I can definitely be fair when I call them liars. It's
sort of silly because the bigger lies are their telling me the pipes
are too dirty to clean, that they are the worst they have ever seen
(with 1/4 to 1/2 inch of soot), that it will ruin their brush. The
claim of creosote is just something she threw in when I asked why they
can't clean the pipe with a brush. (and she'll claim she got confused
and was talking about the fireplace chimney. and come up with a
different excuse why they pipes can't be cleaned. Or she'll say they
can do it, but I wouldn't hire them now, but if I complain elsewhere,
they'll say they were ready to clean for the regular price.)
But again, I'm not going to do this until I have the chimney cleaned,
in case the new, hopefully honest guy has something bad to say. If
I'm wrong on one thing with the first people, they'll concentrate on
that and just ignore all the lies they've told me. Of course they'll
do that even if I'm not wrong on anything.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
harry
wrote:
> On 1/9/2011 10:52 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/9/2011 9:34 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> ?
>
> - Show quoted text -
If they were operating the plant properly, there wouldn't be any
smoke. Visible smoke is a bad sign.
The Daring Dufas
Sometimes the plant would release pressure and it sounded like a rocket
launch from my office which was a block away. :-)
TDD
Ed Pawlowski
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote
> Sometimes the plant would release pressure and it sounded like a rocket
> launch from my office which was a block away. :-)
>
> TDD
Boiler blow down most likely. Usually done once a shift to purge the solids
left behind by the water. Gives the neighbors a thrill.
The Daring Dufas
It was pretty cool, it scared the heck out of people who knew no better.
I've actually been down in the basement of some of the downtown
buildings served by the plant. The steam meters looked something like
a water meter except they were hotter than hell and the leaks fogged
up my glasses. :-)
TDD
HeyBub
>
> If they were operating the plant properly, there wouldn't be any
> smoke. Visible smoke is a bad sign.
Often, very often, steam from a chimney is confused with smoke.
harry
There would be no steam from the chimney of steam boilers. The exit
flue gases are far too hot. Which is why the plant is inherently
inefficient.
Also burning coal, there is very little water vapour produced, just
CO2.
Ed Pawlowski
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:prOdnWTP5saTZbfQ...@earthlink.com...
And even more often, the condensing water vapor from the combustion is
confused with steam.
Even worse is a factory in our town with a water cooling tower. The vapor
coming off the tower looks like smoke in the night lights. At least once a
month a passing motorists calls the fire department and they have to send a
truck out.
The Ghost in The Machine
THAT'S DISGUSTING AND A WASTE OF TAX PAYERS MONEY.
PAT ECUM
The Daring Dufas
The cooling towers at the hospital complex chilled water plant put out
big clouds of steam during certain weather which freaks out a lot of
people in the area leading them to believe the building is on fire. :-)
TDD
jimn
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Do-oil-furnace-fireboxes-and-chimneys-get-creosote-613495-.htm
jimn wrote:
No. They don't. They will produce soot but even this should not be an
issue if you have your oil burner
regularly maintained by a pro with the proper instruments to adjust the
combustion appropriately. I live
in a house built in 1960 with an oil fired boiler. My family has always
lived in houses with oil fired
heating equipment. I don;t remember any of use ever having an oil burner
flue cleaned. The smoke
pipe from the furnace or boiler to the chimney should be cleaned and
inspected as part of your annual
tune up. Chimney should be inspected every few years to make sure the
liner and brick are solid, but I
see no reason to clean it. If your burner isn't adjusted correctly then
you could have a soot problem, but
I would have a burner tech evaluate this, not a chimney cleaning company.
mm wrote:
> The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys
> get creosote?
> One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.
-------------------------------------
Jim