Need help in identifying a faucet knob for this faucet stem (or vice versa)
William Brammer
Temptrol shower faucet?
My Symmons Model=CA faucet stem broach splines are the wrong size! :(
Details:
* The shower faucet has a circular brass plate stamped "Symmons" "Model CA"
* Naturally I assumed it's a Symmons faucet so I called them for parts
* Symmons kindly sent beautifully machined parts; (almost) all fit nicely:
- The TA-10 Temptrol "spindle assembly" is a gorgeous work of art
- The TA-25B "black diverter spindle kit" was a 100% perfect replacement
- The TA-4 Temptrol "hot and cold seat kit" was likewise elegantly machined
- The TA-35A "cold seat removal tool" fit the larger cold seat perfectly
- The TA-35B "hot seat removal tool" likewise nicely fit the smaller seat
- Even the installation diagram & instructions were perfectly aligned with
what I have in my 20-year old shower faucet
http://common.csnstores.com/common/marketing/symmons/sym1010b.pdf
The only problem is the faucet stem broach splines are the wrong size:
* The Symmons spline is circular, 12 point, ~0.415 inches in diameter
* My brass spline is circular, 16 point, ~0.360 inches in diameter
Have you run into this problem before?
How do you solve it?
tra...@optonline.net
> Can you help me find the right stem (or knob) for this 20-year old Symmons
> Temptrol shower faucet?
>
> My Symmons Model=CA faucet stem broach splines are the wrong size! :(
>
> Details:
> * The shower faucet has a circular brass plate stamped "Symmons" "Model CA"
> * Naturally I assumed it's a Symmons faucet so I called them for parts
> * Symmons kindly sent beautifully machined parts; (almost) all fit nicely:
> - The TA-10 Temptrol "spindle assembly" is a gorgeous work of art
> - The TA-25B "black diverter spindle kit" was a 100% perfect replacement
> - The TA-4 Temptrol "hot and cold seat kit" was likewise elegantly machined
> - The TA-35A "cold seat removal tool" fit the larger cold seat perfectly
> - The TA-35B "hot seat removal tool" likewise nicely fit the smaller seat
> - Even the installation diagram & instructions were perfectly aligned with
>
> The only problem is the faucet stem broach splines are the wrong size:
> * The Symmons spline is circular, 12 point, ~0.415 inches in diameter
> * My brass spline is circular, 16 point, ~0.360 inches in diameter
>
> Have you run into this problem before?
> How do you solve it?
Did you try calling them up again and describing the new problem? Or
taking what you have to a local plumbing supply house?
Plumber Bob
> Did you try calling them up again and describing the new problem? Or
> taking what you have to a local plumbing supply house?
Few plumbers can help you because you have a high end bathroom
fixture.
It's probably made by Harden who would take Symmons Temptrol valves
and customize the stems making it longer, thinner, and with more
splines.
Your best bet is to throw it away because Harden went out of business
and I doubt you'll find such high end legacy replacement parts on the
Internet.
William Brammer
> Your best bet is to throw it away because Harden went out of business
I looked for Harden to no avail in the Master Plumber Bible:
http://www.mascocanada.com/userFiles/File/Brasscraft/Master%20Plumber%20Catalogue.pdf
When I called Symmons technical support a few weeks ago, they sent me the
"Symmons TA-10" shower faucet flow control spindle but I now realize they
should have sent me the Harden TA-10H flow control spindle which is a
modified Symmons valve not sold by Symmons anymore.
You can see the difference between the original Symmons and the Harden in
this web page which shows the Symmons TA-10 next to the Harden Symmons
TA-10H faucet valve.
http://www.hatcreekoutfit.com/xcart/customer/search.php?substring=ta10
Now that I know what to look for, hopefully I can find a Harden TA10H in
stock somewhere local.
Godspeed
> You can see the difference between the original Symmons and the Harden in
> this web page which shows the Symmons TA-10 next to the Harden Symmons
> TA-10H faucet valve.
> http://www.hatcreekoutfit.com/xcart/customer/search.php?substring=ta10
Instead of looking for a valve stem to fit the faucet knob, why don't you
find a faucet knob to fit the valve stem?
http://www.faucetpartsplus.com/Default.asp
16 point .360" broach - Gerber, Sayco.
16 point .370" broach - Acme, American Standard Cadet & Colony, Barnes,
Burlington, Central Brass, Concinnity, Eljer, Glauber, Harden, Kohler
Trand, Milwaukee, Newport, Phylrich, Royal Brass, Scoville.
16 point .40" broach - Sterling
coco
> Instead of looking for a valve stem to fit the faucet knob, why don't you
> find a faucet knob to fit the valve stem?
> http://www.faucetpartsplus.com/Default.asp
+1 on finding a faucet handle to fit the Symmons TA-10 stem.
I think your numbers are wrong though. Looking at the URL, he needs the 12
point .415" broach - Symmons
Maybe a faucet handle for the slightly smaller broaches will
12 point .335" broach - Crane Dialeze, Michigan Brass, Wolverine
12 point .375" broach - Arrowhead, Artistic Brass, Harcraft, Glauber, Price
Pfister, Scoville, Universal Brass
12 point .39" broach - Bradley, Elkay, Fisher, Sears, Universal Rundle
Or the slightly larger broaches.
12 point .485" broach - Crane, Symmons
William Brammer
>> 16 point .370" broach -
>> Acme, American Standard Cadet & Colony, Barnes, Burlington,
>> Central Brass, Concinnity, Eljer, Glauber, Harden, Kohler Trand,
>> Milwaukee, Newport, Phylrich, Royal Brass, Scoville
> I think your numbers are wrong though. Looking at the URL, he needs the
> 12 point .415" broach - Symmons
I'm still stuck.
When I told Symmons customer support at 800-symmons that it was a harden
faucet stem, they said they can't help me anymore.
I sent photos to symmons customer support c...@symmons.com who finally said
they have nothing that will fit.
So, now I'm stuck with a Symmons TA-10 stem (12 point, .415" broach) and I
need to find Symmons or other hardware to fit. Yet when I go to Home Depot
and ACE and OSH, all of them tell me is that I have to replace the entire
mechanism behind the wall!
There must be a simple solution out there. Are there any Internet savvy
plumbers on this message board?
Note: Here are others with similar Harden / Symmons Temptrol TA10 / TA10H
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.home.repair/2006-02/msg03836.html
http://www.homegardenguides.com/garden-forum/home-repairs-forum/48373-symmons-temptrol-tub-shower-valves-preventive-maintenance.html
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-286.html
http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-348724.html
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?p=242507
http://forum.doityourself.com/plumbing-piping/410353-symmons-temptrol-shower-not-hot-anymore.html
http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17268
http://www.city-data.com/forum/house/679340-symmons-brand-shower-faucet.html
Patricia Wilson
Internet/Catalog #100073698 Store SKU #498444 $35.98
Home Depot Symmons Allura Tub and Shower Valve Trim in Satin Nickel
Model #S-66-2-STN-LAM-TRM-RP Internet/Catalog #202034958 Store SKU #939939
$83.93
Home Depot Symmons Allura Shower System in Satin Model #S-76-1-STN-LAM
Internet/Catalog #100643615 Store SKU #939570 $183.47
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