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Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?
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Jim
Dec 25, 2012, 5:22:00 PM12/25/12
to
I asked in the old thread a few days ago, but nobody saw it so I'm
reposting this question.
Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?
When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/fireplacegaslighting52.jpg
I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/fireplacegaslighting67.jpg
There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/fireplacegaslighting68.jpg
Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
Should I just remove the clamps?
reposting this question.
Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?
When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/fireplacegaslighting52.jpg
I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/fireplacegaslighting67.jpg
There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/fireplacegaslighting68.jpg
Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
Should I just remove the clamps?
Doug Miller
Dec 25, 2012, 6:00:05 PM12/25/12
to
Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbd8u8$sls$1...@news.albasani.net:
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust gases to leave
the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
if the fireplace is used frequently.
Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.
> Should I just remove the clamps?
At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate properly, and the
fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
if the fireplace is used frequently.
Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.
> Should I just remove the clamps?
fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
Existential Angst
Dec 25, 2012, 6:13:43 PM12/25/12
to
"Doug Miller" <doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA134B717925...@88.198.244.100...
Mine is like a sieve. I don't think HD nationwide has enough caulk or Great
Stuff.... which is not so great, imo....
--
EA
news:XnsA134B717925...@88.198.244.100...
> Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbd8u8$sls$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
> Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust
> gases to leave
> the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
>
> Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without
> checking the
> damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open
> all the time, especially
> if the fireplace is used frequently.
>
> Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper
> in a fireplace *not*
> in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is*
> in use -- could be that
> none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open
> damper somewhere.
Dats a tight house indeed.
>
>> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
> Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust
> gases to leave
> the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
>
> Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without
> checking the
> damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open
> all the time, especially
> if the fireplace is used frequently.
>
> Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper
> in a fireplace *not*
> in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is*
> in use -- could be that
> none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open
> damper somewhere.
Mine is like a sieve. I don't think HD nationwide has enough caulk or Great
Stuff.... which is not so great, imo....
--
EA
Jim
Dec 25, 2012, 7:37:45 PM12/25/12
to
Doug Miller wrote:
> At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
> properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s)
> closed.
Thanks for the clarification on the damper.
> At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
> properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s)
> closed.
I didn't know if the clamp was a safety feature or what.
I'll remove the clamnps to see what happens with the air.
Paul Drahn
Dec 25, 2012, 8:20:46 PM12/25/12
to
doors in the front. The year we moved there we had a big fire in the
fireplace during a winter storm. About 5 degrees, snowing hard and big
wind from the South. One big gust of wind blew open the glass doors and
slammed shut the damper. Guess where the smoke and flames went? We were
in the room and I quickly grabbed a stick of firewood and got the damper
open and doors closed.
Got a piece of wire and managed to wire the damper open.
Later I fabricated a stainless steel latch on the damper handle to hold
it either open or closed. No further problems. The heavy wooden mantle
showed signs that this had happened before.
In my experience, dampers should ALWAYS have some positive
latching/locking mechanism.
Paul
micky
Dec 25, 2012, 8:41:15 PM12/25/12
to
Because they kept lighting fires without opening the flue?
Because Santa Claus was expected last night and he can barely squeeze
through even with them open.
Because 2 and 3 were jealous of 1.
Because they believed in open relationships.
mike
Dec 25, 2012, 8:51:43 PM12/25/12
to
under different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy
is rehearsed.
My fireplace is capped, 'cause I don't use it.
The range vent hood can pull a 5 Pascal vacuum on the inside.
I'd be nervous about a smoldering fire with negative
pressure.
Jim
Dec 25, 2012, 9:36:32 PM12/25/12
to
mike wrote:
> If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
> different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
> If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
> rehearsed
I was just gonna 'look' at the fire.
> If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
> different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
> If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
> rehearsed
What else 'can' I do to figure out WHY the dampers are all locked open?
gonjah
Dec 25, 2012, 9:40:57 PM12/25/12
to
sure they stayed open so you don't kill anyone.
mike
Dec 25, 2012, 10:27:06 PM12/25/12
to
The only rational reason to ask a question is if your future depends
on the answer. Your only future option is to close the vents.
If you're not gonna risk closing the vents, the why is irrelevant.
The only way to get an accurate answer is to locate the person who
locked 'em and ask.
But you're asking the wrong question. The question you probably
want is, "what happens if I close one or more of them?"
Pondering why they're locked open is preferable to pondering
why your kids died in their sleep while you were experimenting.
There's lots of stuff done to make sure that it's never a problem
under the worst imaginable conditions. Your experiments likely won't
cover all those bases. But it's very likely that you won't
die...maybe...probably...except in that rare case when you do.
If you're burning wood, I'd be worried.
If it's a properly adjusted gas flame with outside combustion air,
it's a lot safer.
Heck, 50 years ago we used to heat with open-flame gas and no vents
at all.
Wonder if there's any correlation between that and the fact that
I can't remember what I had for breakfast.
If you're gonna muck with the heating system combustion products,
don't just guess.
Get the tools and MEASURE it.
Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
bob haller
Dec 25, 2012, 11:22:50 PM12/25/12
to
dampers locked open...
for your safety!!!
Wes Groleau
Dec 25, 2012, 11:27:35 PM12/25/12
to
On 12-25-2012 17:22, Jim wrote:
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
You said this was also on one that hadn't been used.
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
Could ti be put on by the manufacturer to keep it from moving during
shipping? I wouldn't think so, but ....
--
Wes Groleau
“Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe.”
— Albert Einstein
Wes Groleau
Dec 25, 2012, 11:30:42 PM12/25/12
to
On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.
mike
Dec 25, 2012, 11:42:45 PM12/25/12
to
On 12/25/2012 8:30 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
>> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
>> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
>
> If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
> concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
> closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.
>
Closing the damper on a fireplace not in use restricts air flow into
> On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
>> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
>> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
>
> If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
> concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
> closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.
>
the space.
I haven't had a fire since I sealed the place, but based
on the pressure measurements, I'm certain that if
I unblocked the chimney and turned
on the kitchen exhaust fan, it'd suck smoke down the chimney.
Like I said...closing a damper is not a problem...until it is.
Where death is involved, you wanna be very sure.
Jim
Dec 26, 2012, 12:55:30 AM12/26/12
to
Wes Groleau wrote:
> You said this was also on one that hadn't been used.
> Could ti be put on by the manufacturer to keep it from moving during
> shipping? I wouldn't think so, but ....
It's on all the fireplace dampers!
> You said this was also on one that hadn't been used.
> Could ti be put on by the manufacturer to keep it from moving during
> shipping? I wouldn't think so, but ....
I don't have a clue why it's there, especially since all the dampers have
their own opening/closing/locking mechanism.
That's why I asked! :)
Tony Palermo
Dec 26, 2012, 1:12:34 AM12/26/12
to
Jim wrote:
> I don't have a clue why it's there, especially since all the dampers
> have their own opening/closing/locking mechanism.
I went to images.google.com and typed in "fireplace damper safety clamp".
> I don't have a clue why it's there, especially since all the dampers
> have their own opening/closing/locking mechanism.
Lots of pictures similar to what you've got there.
Here's one for a damper clamp.
http://mci-mastercreiainspector.com/post/2408133/the-three-most-common-write-ups-at-a-home-inspection
"When properly installed, this clamp will prevent the damper from closing.
If a gas leak occurs, the gas will not enter the living space,
but will be vented up through the chimney."
Here's an LA Times news article:
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec/05/realestate/re-40560
Disabling Fireplace Damper Keeps Home Safe From Fumes
http://mj-dakota.xomba.com/what_fireplace_damper_clamp
These clamps are placed on the fireplace flue damper to keep it open
allowing venting for the pilot exhaust. This is a code compliance issue
(for most states and counties in the US) anytime there is a gas
appliance in a fireplace and a safety issue due to carbon monoxide
released by the burning gas.
http://www.perfectionfireplace.com/faqs.html
a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs. The damper clip locks the damper in the open position
at all times. This is done as a safety precaution, to prevent gases
produced by your fire from entering your home. With gas logs, there
is no smoke produced, and therefore no indicator that the damper is
closed, which causes a potentially hazardous situation.
HeyBub
Dec 26, 2012, 8:51:28 AM12/26/12
to
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
> properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused
> one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can remember to check them
> before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if
> the fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
Yes there is: So you don't have to fiddle with it ever again.
>
> At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
> properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused
> one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can remember to check them
> before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if
> the fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
Ah, you might say, that defeats the purpose by allowing outside air to
influence the inside temperature!
Not at my house, or at least not so much.
A couple of years ago I scored a fireplace screen from Craigslist for $45.
It consists of a frame clamped to the fireplace itself, two wire-mesh doors,
and two tempered glass doors. After enjoying the fire as much as needed, I
can close all the doors and make the front of the fireplace almost air
tight. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach into the
still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.
And before anyone haruumps "There's still SOME leakage!", I'll admit to
that, but probably no more so than around a closed damper.
Mine is similar to this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202325785/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=fireplace+doors&storeId=10051#.UNsAH-THWzk
mike
Dec 26, 2012, 9:33:41 AM12/26/12
to
On 12/26/2012 5:51 AM, HeyBub wrote:
. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
> have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach into the
> still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.
Are you saying that you were in the habit of closing the damper while
. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
> have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach into the
> still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.
the embers are still smoldering.
If so, we have discovered why the dampers are locked open...because of you.
;-)
Glad you're still alive.
Jim
Dec 26, 2012, 1:17:51 PM12/26/12
to
Tony Palermo wrote:
> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
> with gas logs
I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
> with gas logs
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?
Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.
I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
Dec 26, 2012, 1:45:28 PM12/26/12
to
I think you have figured it out perfectly. Damper opened if pilot on,
and yes, it does waste some energy.
Doug Miller
Dec 26, 2012, 1:54:44 PM12/26/12
to
Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbff0f$pif$4...@news.albasani.net:
> Tony Palermo wrote:
>
>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>> with gas logs
>
> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
That's what a pilot light is FOR.
> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.
>
> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.
> Seems wasteful to me.
You pay for convenience.
>
> I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
> wasn't clamped open like it is now.
So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
the fire is COMPLETELY out.
> Tony Palermo wrote:
>
>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>> with gas logs
>
> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.
>
> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
> a ton of energy?
Not really.
> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
> a ton of energy?
>
> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.
> Seems wasteful to me.
You pay for convenience.
>
> I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
> wasn't clamped open like it is now.
the fire is COMPLETELY out.
dpb
Dec 26, 2012, 2:02:53 PM12/26/12
to
On 12/26/2012 12:45 PM, hr(bob) hof...@att.net wrote:
> On Dec 26, 12:17 pm, Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote:
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
>>
>> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
>> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
What good would it do if it weren't on????? You go light the pilot,
> On Dec 26, 12:17 pm, Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote:
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
>>
>> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
>> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
then use it to light the furnace/water heater/oven from that? In that
case, may as well just go manual.
>> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
>> a ton of energy?
>> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
>> Seems wasteful to me.
And, to cut down on that usage as energy costs have gone up is why the
switch to piezo-electric starters instead of pilots...
--
k...@attt.bizz
Dec 26, 2012, 2:16:11 PM12/26/12
to
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:54:44 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
<doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbff0f$pif$4...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
Nonsense. There are vent-free gas logs. No clip at all, though I wish
<doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbff0f$pif$4...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
there were one.
>> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
>
>That's what a pilot light is FOR.
>
>> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
>
>No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
>amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.
>>
>> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
>> a ton of energy?
>
>Not really.
>> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
>
>Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
>furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
>relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.
mike
Dec 26, 2012, 2:27:59 PM12/26/12
to
On 12/26/2012 10:54 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbff0f$pif$4...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
>>
>> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
>
> That's what a pilot light is FOR.
>
>> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
>
> No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
> amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.
In a perfect world, I think you're right. Building codes allow for a
> Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbff0f$pif$4...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Tony Palermo wrote:
>>
>>> a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
>>> with gas logs
>>
>> I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
>
> That's what a pilot light is FOR.
>
>> So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.
>
> No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
> amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.
less than
perfect world.
>>
>> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
>> a ton of energy?
>
> Not really.
>
>>
>> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
>
> Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
> furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
> relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.
>
>> Seems wasteful to me.
My experience has been different. I don't have records going back that far,
>> However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
>> a ton of energy?
>
> Not really.
>
>>
>> Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
>
> Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
> furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
> relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.
>
>> Seems wasteful to me.
but I've been turning my furnace pilot light off during the summer for
decades.
It saved enough to be well worth the effort.
>
> You pay for convenience.
>
>>
>> I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
>> wasn't clamped open like it is now.
>
> So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
> the fire is COMPLETELY out.
Building codes allow for a less than perfect world.
> You pay for convenience.
>
>>
>> I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
>> wasn't clamped open like it is now.
>
> So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
> the fire is COMPLETELY out.
Like when you forget to open the damper.
Or when you're sure you left it open, but the wife closed it.
Or when you have a visitor.
Or when the kids get cold and you're not around.
or...or...or
My chimney is capped, but there's also a board over the front of the
fireplace.
And my air conditioner condenser is wrapped, but there's a sticker
on the breaker that says, "don't turn this on before you uncover the
compressor."
Not everybody is perfect...
>
nestork
Dec 26, 2012, 12:15:26 PM12/26/12
to
Jim:
I didn't read all the other posts in this thread, but I can think of at
least two reasons why a previous home owner would have secured the fire
place flue dampers open:
1. Dryer exhaust duct is clogged with lint. Clothes aren't drying
properly. Home owner misdiagnoses the problem as being insufficient
make-up air coming into the house to replace warm moist air being blown
out by the dryer. So, he opens the flue vents to allow for more made-up
air.
2. Thermocouple on water heater is old and barely producing sufficient
voltage to keep safety valve on gas valve open. So, pilot light flame
going out, heaving home owner constantly running out of hot water. Home
owner misdiagnoses the problem. He figures that when the dryer is
operating, the make-up air is coming down the water heater flue and
blowing the pilot light out. So, he opens the flue vent to allow
make-up air to come in through the fire place instead.
--
nestork
thekma...@gmail.com
Dec 26, 2012, 4:28:05 PM12/26/12
to
External Angst:
Been up in your attic lately? If you live north of DC anywhere in the country you should have at least 12-18" of fiberglass insulation in the floor of that attic. The door or stair/hatch into that attic should also be weatherstripped.
Heat rises - stop it in it's tracks! :)
Been up in your attic lately? If you live north of DC anywhere in the country you should have at least 12-18" of fiberglass insulation in the floor of that attic. The door or stair/hatch into that attic should also be weatherstripped.
Heat rises - stop it in it's tracks! :)
The Daring Dufas
Dec 26, 2012, 4:47:56 PM12/26/12
to
helps prevent corrosion and it tends to drive away any insects that may
want to take up residence in the flue and burners. It's also simple and
reliable, the electronic ignition equipped systems are more complicated
and have more points of failure. Most folks leave the pilot burning in
cold weather when the fireplace may be used and turn the gas off in the
warmer months especially if they are using LP gas. ^_^
TDD
HeyBub
Dec 26, 2012, 5:16:53 PM12/26/12
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fireplaces.
I guess I could have a fire extinguisher nearby ...
missin...@brainchampagne.com
Dec 26, 2012, 5:43:42 PM12/26/12
to
COULD?
How about ABSOLUTELY SHOULD?
How about ABSOLUTELY SHOULD?
mike
Dec 26, 2012, 9:24:11 PM12/26/12
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mike
Dec 26, 2012, 9:26:33 PM12/26/12
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Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.
I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
web across the lens.
Maybe I should clean house more often...
The Daring Dufas
Dec 26, 2012, 10:28:57 PM12/26/12
to
short circuit caused by a mouse that had crawled through an open conduit
knock out hole in the compressor's electrical junction box. The mouse
had an electrifying experience. ^_^
TDD
Jim
Dec 26, 2012, 11:46:32 PM12/26/12
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The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Most folks leave the pilot burning in cold weather
> when the fireplace may be used
I've never used the fireplace before, so it was unnatural
> Most folks leave the pilot burning in cold weather
> when the fireplace may be used
for me to think that people keep the pilot flame on all
the time (wasting gas?).
Once I warm up to the idea of keeping the pilot flame lit
all the time, then it becomes obvious why you'd want the
damper to be locked open all the time.
But, if that's the case that the pilot is supposed to always
be lit, then why bother with the electronic snapper to light
the pilot in the first place?
You could use a flame to light the pilot if it's just a one-time deal.
Wes Groleau
Dec 27, 2012, 12:03:23 AM12/27/12
to
On 12-25-2012 23:42, mike wrote:
> On 12/25/2012 8:30 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
>>> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
>>> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
>>
>> If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
>> concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
>> closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.
>
> Closing the damper on a fireplace not in use restricts air flow into
> the space.
>
> I haven't had a fire since I sealed the place, but based
> on the pressure measurements, I'm certain that if
> I unblocked the chimney and turned
> on the kitchen exhaust fan, it'd suck smoke down the chimney.
How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
> On 12/25/2012 8:30 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
>>> Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
>>> little information you've provided is being irresponsible.
>>
>> If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
>> concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
>> closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.
>
> Closing the damper on a fireplace not in use restricts air flow into
> the space.
>
> I haven't had a fire since I sealed the place, but based
> on the pressure measurements, I'm certain that if
> I unblocked the chimney and turned
> on the kitchen exhaust fan, it'd suck smoke down the chimney.
not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
closing the damper may be dangerous?
> Like I said...closing a damper is not a problem...until it is.
> Where death is involved, you wanna be very sure.
Wes Groleau
¡Qué quiero realmente hacer es comer un perrito caliente!
私が実際にしたいと思う何をホットドッグを食べることである!
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.org/WWW?itemid=463
mike
Dec 27, 2012, 12:08:53 AM12/27/12
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in outside windy conditions.
You can use an automatic snapper instead of a pilot light to light
the burner.
Newer units typically use an electric heater that gets hot enough to
light the gas. Neither are particularly practical for a fireplace
insert without easy access to power.
The cost of running a pilot is not zero.
And one could argue that at least some of the heat from an
inside pilot ends up in the living space.
Wes Groleau
Dec 27, 2012, 12:10:46 AM12/27/12
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On 12-26-2012 21:26, mike wrote:
> Good point. I once had a camp heater that refused to light.
> Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.
>
> I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
> web across the lens.
>
> Maybe I should clean house more often...
Maybe you should put a "web-free zone" sign on your front door.
> Good point. I once had a camp heater that refused to light.
> Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.
>
> I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
> web across the lens.
>
> Maybe I should clean house more often...
--
Wes Groleau
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, and cut with an axe.
mike
Dec 27, 2012, 12:41:18 AM12/27/12
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On 12/26/2012 9:03 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>
> How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
> not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
> closing the damper may be dangerous?
There's been a lot of conjecture and snippage in this thread.
>
> How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
> not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
> closing the damper may be dangerous?
Suggest you go back to the beginning and read it all.
About the only FACT we know is the current configuration of the
house hasn't killed the current resident yet.
I can tell you that in MY house, based on differential pressure
and infiltration measurements, I would not consider building a fire
without opening a window somewhere. And if someone turned on the
range hood, the bathroom fan or the clothes dryer there'd be smoke
everywhere.
As a practical matter, a typical house that met code when built
and hadn't been changed, probably has a lot of slack.
You could probably close vents with impunity up until the point where
that unfortunate confluence of conditions set the place on fire or killed
your kids while they slept.
Your house, your kids, your choice.
My choice was to seal the place up tight, build a heat-recovery
ventilator and never build a fire again.
Jim
Dec 27, 2012, 1:02:58 AM12/27/12
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I googled for "how much energy does a pilot light waste" and found
the Strait Dope article which said it was 15 cents to 30 cents a day:
"How much per day does it cost to run pilot lights?"
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=67954
This article said $10 a month for the pilot flame:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg1119523314242.html
Yet, Wikipedia says half the energy used is wasted through the pilot
flame:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_light
Doesn't add up ...
the Strait Dope article which said it was 15 cents to 30 cents a day:
"How much per day does it cost to run pilot lights?"
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=67954
This article said $10 a month for the pilot flame:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg1119523314242.html
Yet, Wikipedia says half the energy used is wasted through the pilot
flame:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_light
Doesn't add up ...
William Don**ly
Dec 27, 2012, 1:05:26 AM12/27/12
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This physics site says it costs about $200/year for a pilot light.
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/03/pilot-lights-are-evil/
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/03/pilot-lights-are-evil/
Wes Groleau
Dec 27, 2012, 1:12:53 AM12/27/12
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On 12-27-2012 00:41, mike wrote:
> On 12/26/2012 9:03 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
>> not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
>> closing the damper may be dangerous?
>
> There's been a lot of conjecture and snippage in this thread.
> Suggest you go back to the beginning and read it all.
I read it all. He said "unused fireplaces" and was warned "don't close
> On 12/26/2012 9:03 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
>> not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
>> closing the damper may be dangerous?
>
> There's been a lot of conjecture and snippage in this thread.
> Suggest you go back to the beginning and read it all.
them"
I suggested that while closing the damper in an unused fireplace might
not be ideal, it is certainly not dangerous.
You countered by suggesting that _opening_ a damper might cause smoke to
be sucked into the house.
I suggested that you won't find much smoke in an unused fireplace,
and that if there were smoke there, _opening_ a damper would not
cause the undefined hazard warned about from _closing_ it.
Whereupon you suggested I read the whole thread and repeated the same
nonsequitur.
--
Wes Groleau
A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.
mike
Dec 27, 2012, 1:43:00 AM12/27/12
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in summer.
But I don't have records back that far to verify.
I bought an electric spark igniter at a garage sale, but didn't know
what I was doing and feared burning down the house. Never installed it.
New furnace has an electric igniter.
Jim
Dec 27, 2012, 1:45:20 AM12/27/12
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dpb wrote:
> it's not a pilot light if it isn't lit.
> And, to cut down on that usage as energy costs have gone up is why the
> switch to piezo-electric starters instead of pilots...
I'm confused why my gas burner has BOTH the pilot light and the
> it's not a pilot light if it isn't lit.
> And, to cut down on that usage as energy costs have gone up is why the
> switch to piezo-electric starters instead of pilots...
piezo-electric starter.
The piezo-electric snapper simply starts the pilot light.
So why do I need the pilot light if I have the snapper?
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 3:29:35 AM12/27/12
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operate the gas valve. If the pilot goes out, the gas valve will not
operate. Some pilots also operate as an oxygen sensor, when O2 levels
drop, the pilot flame shrinks and no longer heats the thermocouple thus
the gas valve closes. My wall mounted unventilated gas heater has a
piezoelectric igniter for the oxygen sensing pilot light. The pilot must
heat the thermocouple enough to produce electric current before the gas
valve can be turned on. If the pilot goes out, the gas to the
burners shuts off regardless of the position of the control. ^_^
http://www.repair.com/c/water-heater/faq/what-is-a-pilot-light.html
TDD
Tim Watts
Dec 27, 2012, 5:04:00 AM12/27/12
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and do another timed meter reading. Maybe he has a leak somewhere ventilated
and not noticeable and is pissig gas everywhere? ;->
Oh - and whilst the UK uses kWh too, it's not the SI unit for energy.
Good memories though, of when the UK uses to have cuFt gas meters and bill
by the therm (the wholesale market still does).
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Jim
Dec 27, 2012, 5:43:15 AM12/27/12
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mike wrote:
> And one could argue that at least some of the heat from an inside pilot
> ends up in the living space.
I had not thought of that! :)
> And one could argue that at least some of the heat from an inside pilot
> ends up in the living space.
Jim
Dec 27, 2012, 5:45:15 AM12/27/12
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The Daring Dufas wrote:
> The pilot light heats a thermocouple which produces electric
> current to operate the gas valve.
Ah. That must be why the pilot light kept going out in the beginning,
> The pilot light heats a thermocouple which produces electric
> current to operate the gas valve.
when I let up on the pressing of the knob.
Then, after a few minutes with the butane lighter, the pilot light
stayed lit after I let up on pressing the knob.
The thermocouple must've heated up by then!
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 8:42:21 AM12/27/12
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out at more of an angle to heat the thermocouple. When oxygen levels
drop too low, the flame bends away from the thermocouple and can no
longer heat it, the thermocouple cools and the gas shuts off. ^_^
TDD
Doug Miller
Dec 27, 2012, 10:16:43 AM12/27/12
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The Daring Dufas <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in news:kbgf95$5jn$1@dont-
email.me:
> I was working on a commercial refrigeration unit one time and found a
> short circuit caused by a mouse that had crawled through an open conduit
> knock out hole in the compressor's electrical junction box. The mouse
> had an electrifying experience. ^_^
What a shocking story.
email.me:
> I was working on a commercial refrigeration unit one time and found a
> short circuit caused by a mouse that had crawled through an open conduit
> knock out hole in the compressor's electrical junction box. The mouse
> had an electrifying experience. ^_^
Doug Miller
Dec 27, 2012, 10:18:15 AM12/27/12
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Jim <j...@abcdefg.com> wrote in news:kbgjr8$6a6$3...@news.albasani.net:
> Once I warm up to the idea of keeping the pilot flame lit
> all the time, then it becomes obvious why you'd want the
> damper to be locked open all the time.
Pfui. The pilot does NOT produce anywhere nearly enough carbon monoxide to present any
kind of problem. There is NO need to vent a pilot light.
> Once I warm up to the idea of keeping the pilot flame lit
> all the time, then it becomes obvious why you'd want the
> damper to be locked open all the time.
kind of problem. There is NO need to vent a pilot light.
dpb
Dec 27, 2012, 10:51:31 AM12/27/12
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On 12/27/2012 4:45 AM, Jim wrote:
I posted not long ago about a small heater in the well house here...it
is a _very_ old heater (re-purposed WW II vintage bathroom heater from
house pre-central heat installation) and had a "wild" pilot that was
common (essentially universal) in those days. In those the pilot was
simply a small bypass line but there was no TC and no safety valve; if
the pilot went out it just went out and if (no, when) the temperature
dropped and demand signal came, the valve would open. If untended,
Indianapolis could be the result.
From that, it's clear why the new way is better. Last spring I
replaced the pilot assembly and control valve on this heater w/ a new
pilot assembly w/ the TC adaptor and one of them new-fangled control
valves...it has proved beneficial once this winter already as the pilot
blew out on a very windy day once already.
It did, however, go for 40-some years out there (the well house was
built around the "new" well in the late 50s/early 60s) though...
--
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 10:54:27 AM12/27/12
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automatic pilot light reigniter. ^_^
TDD
dpb
Dec 27, 2012, 12:46:29 PM12/27/12
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On 12/27/2012 9:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
...
> It appears that your pump house heater would be a good candidate for an
> automatic pilot light reigniter. ^_^
It has one... :)
And it needs activation to check at the moment...
--
...
> It appears that your pump house heater would be a good candidate for an
> automatic pilot light reigniter. ^_^
And it needs activation to check at the moment...
--
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 1:14:14 PM12/27/12
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dpb
Dec 27, 2012, 2:39:26 PM12/27/12
to
On 12/27/2012 12:14 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> On 12/27/2012 11:46 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 12/27/2012 9:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> It appears that your pump house heater would be a good candidate for an
>>> automatic pilot light reigniter. ^_^
>>
>> It has one... :)
>>
...
> On 12/27/2012 11:46 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 12/27/2012 9:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> It appears that your pump house heater would be a good candidate for an
>>> automatic pilot light reigniter. ^_^
>>
>> It has one... :)
>>
> Is it one of these? ^_^
>
> http://hdsupplysolutions.com/shop/product-robertshaw_automatic_pilot_relight_kit-223280
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/bndq8b7
Cute. Hadn't seen one of them before, actually...if it were more
inaccessible location wouldn't be a bad idea.
The one that _is_ installed just came back from checking and all was
well... :)
--
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 4:03:44 PM12/27/12
to
equipment that had a problem with errant drafts blowing the pilot out.
There are even 12vdc automatic reigniters for RV equipment. ^_^
TDD
dpb
Dec 27, 2012, 4:16:11 PM12/27/12
to
On 12/27/2012 3:03 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> On 12/27/2012 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> On 12/27/2012 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
>> The one that _is_ installed just came back from checking and all was
>> well... :)
> I've installed the non-walking/talking units on various gas burning
> equipment that had a problem with errant drafts blowing the pilot out.
> There are even 12vdc automatic reigniters for RV equipment. ^_^
enough the TC doesn't go cold, obviously, and the valve closes
automagically.
--
The Daring Dufas
Dec 27, 2012, 4:30:24 PM12/27/12
to
not only does it produce a spark to ground but it acts as a flame sense
probe for the electronics in the unit which detects the electrical
conductivity of the pilot flame. Some devices have a separate sensor
probe but the Robertshaw unit utilizes a single electrode. ^_^
TDD
DerbyDad03
Dec 27, 2012, 4:36:04 PM12/27/12
to
On Dec 25, 8:20 pm, Paul Drahn <pdr...@webformixair.com> wrote:
> On 12/25/2012 3:00 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote innews:kbd8u8$sls$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
> >> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
> > Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust gases to leave
> > the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
>
> > Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
> > damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
> > if the fireplace is used frequently.
>
> > Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
> > in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
> > none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.
>
> >> Should I just remove the clamps?
>
> > At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate properly, and the
> > fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
> > remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
> > fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
>
> A house we own in Redmond, Oregon has a big stone fireplace with glass
> doors in the front. The year we moved there we had a big fire in the
> fireplace during a winter storm. About 5 degrees, snowing hard and big
> wind from the South. One big gust of wind blew open the glass doors and
> slammed shut the damper. Guess where the smoke and flames went? We were
> in the room and I quickly grabbed a stick of firewood and got the damper
> open and doors closed.
>
> Got a piece of wire and managed to wire the damper open.
>
> Later I fabricated a stainless steel latch on the damper handle to hold
> it either open or closed. No further problems. The heavy wooden mantle
> showed signs that this had happened before.
>
> In my experience, dampers should ALWAYS have some positive
> latching/locking mechanism.
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You asked: "Guess where the smoke and flames went?"
Here's my story:
A friend of mine moved into a renovated farmhouse. Most of the first
floor was a huge living room/dining room combination. In the living
room area they had a large fireplace. In the dining room area they had
a coal buring stove. They moved in during the fall and the coal buring
stove had been doing a great job of heating the downstairs, although
thay had to feed it 3 times a day to keep it going.
We went over their house for their first Christmas party, which was
also the first time they built a roaring blaze in the open fireplace.
As we were sitting watching the fire, we noticed it getting colder and
colder in the house. My friend went over to the coal stove and noticed
that the temperature had dropped dramatically.
In an effort to see what was going on, he open the door to the stove.
Guess where the massive amount of coal dust went?
As it turned out, the fireplace was drawing air down the coal stove
flue and putting out the coal. When he opened the door to the coal
stove, the draft blew the dust all over him, all over the dining room
area and half way out into the living room. 3 or 4 people were
basically covered with soot. My friend looked like an old time actor
wearing blackface. It's a good thing he was wearing glasses, although
when he took them off he looked even funnier.
> On 12/25/2012 3:00 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim<j...@abcdefg.com> wrote innews:kbd8u8$sls$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
> >> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
> > Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust gases to leave
> > the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.
>
> > Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
> > damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
> > if the fireplace is used frequently.
>
> > Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
> > in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
> > none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.
>
> >> Should I just remove the clamps?
>
> > At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate properly, and the
> > fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
> > remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
> > fireplaces draw properly otherwise.
>
> A house we own in Redmond, Oregon has a big stone fireplace with glass
> doors in the front. The year we moved there we had a big fire in the
> fireplace during a winter storm. About 5 degrees, snowing hard and big
> wind from the South. One big gust of wind blew open the glass doors and
> slammed shut the damper. Guess where the smoke and flames went? We were
> in the room and I quickly grabbed a stick of firewood and got the damper
> open and doors closed.
>
> Got a piece of wire and managed to wire the damper open.
>
> Later I fabricated a stainless steel latch on the damper handle to hold
> it either open or closed. No further problems. The heavy wooden mantle
> showed signs that this had happened before.
>
> In my experience, dampers should ALWAYS have some positive
> latching/locking mechanism.
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You asked: "Guess where the smoke and flames went?"
Here's my story:
A friend of mine moved into a renovated farmhouse. Most of the first
floor was a huge living room/dining room combination. In the living
room area they had a large fireplace. In the dining room area they had
a coal buring stove. They moved in during the fall and the coal buring
stove had been doing a great job of heating the downstairs, although
thay had to feed it 3 times a day to keep it going.
We went over their house for their first Christmas party, which was
also the first time they built a roaring blaze in the open fireplace.
As we were sitting watching the fire, we noticed it getting colder and
colder in the house. My friend went over to the coal stove and noticed
that the temperature had dropped dramatically.
In an effort to see what was going on, he open the door to the stove.
Guess where the massive amount of coal dust went?
As it turned out, the fireplace was drawing air down the coal stove
flue and putting out the coal. When he opened the door to the coal
stove, the draft blew the dust all over him, all over the dining room
area and half way out into the living room. 3 or 4 people were
basically covered with soot. My friend looked like an old time actor
wearing blackface. It's a good thing he was wearing glasses, although
when he took them off he looked even funnier.
Doug Miller
Dec 27, 2012, 5:15:54 PM12/27/12
to
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in news:5f81a820-808f-4f60-b972-
073017...@z2g2000vbx.googlegroups.com:
> A friend of mine moved into a renovated farmhouse. Most of the first
> floor was a huge living room/dining room combination. In the living
> room area they had a large fireplace. In the dining room area they had
> a coal buring stove. They moved in during the fall and the coal buring
> stove had been doing a great job of heating the downstairs, although
> thay had to feed it 3 times a day to keep it going.
>
> We went over their house for their first Christmas party, which was
> also the first time they built a roaring blaze in the open fireplace.
> As we were sitting watching the fire, we noticed it getting colder and
> colder in the house. My friend went over to the coal stove and noticed
> that the temperature had dropped dramatically.
>
> In an effort to see what was going on, he open the door to the stove.
> Guess where the massive amount of coal dust went?
>
> As it turned out, the fireplace was drawing air down the coal stove
> flue and putting out the coal. When he opened the door to the coal
> stove, the draft blew the dust all over him, all over the dining room
> area and half way out into the living room. 3 or 4 people were
> basically covered with soot. My friend looked like an old time actor
> wearing blackface. It's a good thing he was wearing glasses, although
> when he took them off he looked even funnier.
Damn good thing the fire in the coal stove was out before that coal dust got dispersed --
otherwise there could (would?) have been a massive explosion.
073017...@z2g2000vbx.googlegroups.com:
> A friend of mine moved into a renovated farmhouse. Most of the first
> floor was a huge living room/dining room combination. In the living
> room area they had a large fireplace. In the dining room area they had
> a coal buring stove. They moved in during the fall and the coal buring
> stove had been doing a great job of heating the downstairs, although
> thay had to feed it 3 times a day to keep it going.
>
> We went over their house for their first Christmas party, which was
> also the first time they built a roaring blaze in the open fireplace.
> As we were sitting watching the fire, we noticed it getting colder and
> colder in the house. My friend went over to the coal stove and noticed
> that the temperature had dropped dramatically.
>
> In an effort to see what was going on, he open the door to the stove.
> Guess where the massive amount of coal dust went?
>
> As it turned out, the fireplace was drawing air down the coal stove
> flue and putting out the coal. When he opened the door to the coal
> stove, the draft blew the dust all over him, all over the dining room
> area and half way out into the living room. 3 or 4 people were
> basically covered with soot. My friend looked like an old time actor
> wearing blackface. It's a good thing he was wearing glasses, although
> when he took them off he looked even funnier.
otherwise there could (would?) have been a massive explosion.
dpb
Dec 27, 2012, 6:27:53 PM12/27/12
to
On 12/27/2012 4:15 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
...
> Damn good thing the fire in the coal stove was out before that coal dust got dispersed --
> otherwise there could (would?) have been a massive explosion.
It wouldn't have been unburnt pulverized coal but ash/soot...
But the likelihood of a coal dust explosion in an unconstrained volume
such as that even w/ pulverized coal would be near zero. Like other
situations (grain dust, wood chips, etc.) there's a fairly narrow range
that will allow such to happen. (Spent many years working w/ pulverized
coal in power plants developing online instrumentation systems to
measure the mass flow rate of PC in individual burner pipes from the
pulverizer outlets to aid in balancing and thereby lower NOx and raise
efficiency).
--
...
> Damn good thing the fire in the coal stove was out before that coal dust got dispersed --
> otherwise there could (would?) have been a massive explosion.
But the likelihood of a coal dust explosion in an unconstrained volume
such as that even w/ pulverized coal would be near zero. Like other
situations (grain dust, wood chips, etc.) there's a fairly narrow range
that will allow such to happen. (Spent many years working w/ pulverized
coal in power plants developing online instrumentation systems to
measure the mass flow rate of PC in individual burner pipes from the
pulverizer outlets to aid in balancing and thereby lower NOx and raise
efficiency).
--
Wes Groleau
Dec 27, 2012, 9:39:32 PM12/27/12
to
On 12-27-2012 05:45, Jim wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> The pilot light heats a thermocouple which produces electric
>> current to operate the gas valve.
>
> Ah. That must be why the pilot light kept going out in the beginning,
> when I let up on the pressing of the knob.
It's also why the instructions say to hold it for sixty seconds after
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> The pilot light heats a thermocouple which produces electric
>> current to operate the gas valve.
>
> Ah. That must be why the pilot light kept going out in the beginning,
> when I let up on the pressing of the knob.
lighting.
I once had two elderly ladies ask me to look at their ancient gravity
feed furnace. I didn't know that furnaces had thermocouples but I knew
what they were, so I figured out that's what it was and why it was
there, and that the reason the furnace only quit while they were on a
long trip was that the pilot alone couldn't heat the umpty-year-old
thing enough unless the furnace came on often enough to keep the TC from
getting cold.
But I had no clue where to buy one that would fit, so I told them to
never set it lower than 68°F and built for them an emergency starter
(with a flashlight battery) in case they forgot.
--
Wes Groleau
He that complies against his will is of the same opinion still.
— Samuel Butler, 1612-1680
William Don**ly
Dec 28, 2012, 2:24:12 PM12/28/12
to
Doug Miller wrote:
> There is NO need to vent a pilot light.
I'm in agreement. You don't vent the Menora.
> There is NO need to vent a pilot light.
But why then does California code require disabling the damper
when wood fireplaces are retrofitted to gas?
Doug Miller
Dec 28, 2012, 4:37:10 PM12/28/12
to
William Don**ly <bdon...@xzyyahoo.com> wrote in news:kbkrks$vuu$4
@news.albasani.net:
Beats me. Why does California do 90% of the goofy stuff it does?
@news.albasani.net:
k...@attt.bizz
Dec 28, 2012, 7:51:30 PM12/28/12
to
Doug Miller
Dec 28, 2012, 8:09:01 PM12/28/12
to
k...@attt.bizz wrote in news:chfsd81ag8hqi6au8...@4ax.com:
Reminds me of an old joke. Mickey Mouse has consulted a divorce lawyer.
Lawyer: Let me get this straight: you want to divorce your wife Minnie --
Mickey <squeaky voice>: Yes, that's right!
Lawyer: -- because she's crazy.
Mickey: I didn't say she was crazy. I said she was fuckin' Goofy!
Lawyer: Let me get this straight: you want to divorce your wife Minnie --
Mickey <squeaky voice>: Yes, that's right!
Lawyer: -- because she's crazy.
Mickey: I didn't say she was crazy. I said she was fuckin' Goofy!
k...@attt.bizz
Dec 29, 2012, 1:16:47 PM12/29/12
to
On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:09:01 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
That was the reference! ;-)
ebinsta...@gmail.com
Aug 7, 2013, 8:10:56 PM8/7/13
to
On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 2:22:00 PM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
> I asked in the old thread a few days ago, but nobody saw it so I'm
>
> reposting this question.
>
>
>
> Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?
>
>
>
> When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
>
> the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/fireplacegaslighting52.jpg
>
>
>
> I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
>
> I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/fireplacegaslighting67.jpg
>
>
>
> There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/fireplacegaslighting68.jpg
> I asked in the old thread a few days ago, but nobody saw it so I'm
>
> reposting this question.
>
>
>
> Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?
>
>
>
> When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
>
> the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/fireplacegaslighting52.jpg
>
>
>
> I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
>
> I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/fireplacegaslighting67.jpg
>
>
>
> There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
>
> http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/fireplacegaslighting68.jpg
>
>
>
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
>
>
> Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
>
> Should I just remove the clamps?
The reason the clamps are there is due to the fact that somebody could start a fire with a ceramic firelog set in there, and the gas(es) would cause carbon monoxide poisoning. The are code now in many places for that reason. If you are not using a gas fire, you would know that the flue was closed due to the smoke.........So, how you use the fireplace determines the actual need.
steveg
Jan 29, 2014, 3:44:01 PM1/29/14
to
replying to gonjah , steveg wrote:
> jthread wrote:
>
> Mine has little clamps that come with them. I figured it was to make
> sure they stayed open so you don't kill anyone.
The fireplace damper needs to have a clamp on it so it will NOT close all
the way and jeapordize lives due to people commonly leaving the damper
shut and running their gas logs. Carbon monoxide is very deadly. In
California you cannot sell a house without a clamp on your damper to keep
it open some.
--
> jthread wrote:
>
> Mine has little clamps that come with them. I figured it was to make
> sure they stayed open so you don't kill anyone.
The fireplace damper needs to have a clamp on it so it will NOT close all
the way and jeapordize lives due to people commonly leaving the damper
shut and running their gas logs. Carbon monoxide is very deadly. In
California you cannot sell a house without a clamp on your damper to keep
it open some.
--
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