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Unused water heater, leave full or empty?
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tra...@optonline.net
Feb 3, 2013, 9:44:46 AM2/3/13
to
A friend has a house that came with two identical water
heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity,
so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going
into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was
about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old.
Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
as possible?
Leave it full of water?
Drain it?
My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
allowing air in, it would rust.......
heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity,
so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going
into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was
about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old.
Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
as possible?
Leave it full of water?
Drain it?
My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
allowing air in, it would rust.......
Stormin Mormon
Feb 3, 2013, 9:50:13 AM2/3/13
to
I think you're right about the rust. Can you alternate them, every couple
months?
Not sure that makes any sense, but it's a thought.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
months?
Not sure that makes any sense, but it's a thought.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
Existential Angst
Feb 3, 2013, 9:53:36 AM2/3/13
to
As an aside, shouldn't two water heaters be hooked up in series?
Been meaning to post that to the group. The rcm peeple should have some
insights into both Qs.
--
EA
Ian Malcolm
Feb 3, 2013, 10:11:28 AM2/3/13
to
"Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>> as possible?
>>
>> Leave it full of water?
>>
>> Drain it?
>>
>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>>
>>
>
> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>
Drain it fully, blow out any remaining water with compressed air, purge
with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
dissolved oxygen.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>> as possible?
>>
>> Leave it full of water?
>>
>> Drain it?
>>
>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>>
>>
>
> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>
with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
dissolved oxygen.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL
Jim Wilkins
Feb 3, 2013, 10:39:16 AM2/3/13
to
"Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net...
I acquired a serviceable used electric water heater from a remodelling
project and mounted it horizontally in a close-fitted greenhouse box
as an unpressurized solar batch heater. After about 3-4 years the tank
started to spring small leaks on the cold bottom side which I patched
until I couldn't keep up.
Anything you put in it, like RV antifreeze, will be very tricky to
completely remove because the tanks are so hard to handle. The best
way I found was hanging it horizontal by a choker sling with the
heater holes on the bottom and spraying a hose in through them, but I
doubt I directly rinsed even half of the surface area and couldn't
touch anything absorbed into the crud in the vee groove around the
concave bottom end. Since the tank wasn't connected to my plumbing and
the water was only for laundry or car washing a little soap or LPS-3
in it didn't matter.
They can be difficult/expensive to dispose of unless you have a friend
in the scrap business. I traded two heaters for an old farm wagon
front axle.
news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net...
>>
>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>> as possible?
>>
>> Leave it full of water?
>>
>> Drain it?
>>
>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
> EA
>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>> as possible?
>>
>> Leave it full of water?
>>
>> Drain it?
>>
>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
I acquired a serviceable used electric water heater from a remodelling
project and mounted it horizontally in a close-fitted greenhouse box
as an unpressurized solar batch heater. After about 3-4 years the tank
started to spring small leaks on the cold bottom side which I patched
until I couldn't keep up.
Anything you put in it, like RV antifreeze, will be very tricky to
completely remove because the tanks are so hard to handle. The best
way I found was hanging it horizontal by a choker sling with the
heater holes on the bottom and spraying a hose in through them, but I
doubt I directly rinsed even half of the surface area and couldn't
touch anything absorbed into the crud in the vee groove around the
concave bottom end. Since the tank wasn't connected to my plumbing and
the water was only for laundry or car washing a little soap or LPS-3
in it didn't matter.
They can be difficult/expensive to dispose of unless you have a friend
in the scrap business. I traded two heaters for an old farm wagon
front axle.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 3, 2013, 11:34:31 AM2/3/13
to
On Feb 3, 9:53 am, "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> EA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The issue of series vs parallel connection of dual water
heaters has been debated here a few times. AFAIK,
there wasn't any overwhelming advantage to either.
One difference would be that in parallel as soon as you've
drawn some amount of water, they are BOTH going to
fire, so you're getting 2X the heating sooner. With them
in series, the upstream one isn't going to fire until a lot
of the water has been drawn.
On the other hand, with them in series there is going to
be more hot water at a higher temp for longer due to
cold water not coming directly into the upstream tank.
In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't make
much difference.
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
The issue of series vs parallel connection of dual water
heaters has been debated here a few times. AFAIK,
there wasn't any overwhelming advantage to either.
One difference would be that in parallel as soon as you've
drawn some amount of water, they are BOTH going to
fire, so you're getting 2X the heating sooner. With them
in series, the upstream one isn't going to fire until a lot
of the water has been drawn.
On the other hand, with them in series there is going to
be more hot water at a higher temp for longer due to
cold water not coming directly into the upstream tank.
In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't make
much difference.
TomR
Feb 3, 2013, 11:54:47 AM2/3/13
to
thinking would be to drain it and leave the drain valve open to hopefully
let it completely dry out over time.
Robert Allison
Feb 3, 2013, 1:05:30 PM2/3/13
to
On 2/3/2013 9:11 AM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
> "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>>> as possible?
>>>
>>> Leave it full of water?
>>>
>>> Drain it?
>>>
>>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>>
>
> Drain it fully, blow out any remaining water with compressed air, purge
> with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
> mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
>
> Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
> them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
> unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
> plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
> dissolved oxygen.
Dissolved oxygen? In H20?
> "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
>>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
>>> as possible?
>>>
>>> Leave it full of water?
>>>
>>> Drain it?
>>>
>>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
>>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>>
>
> Drain it fully, blow out any remaining water with compressed air, purge
> with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
> mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
>
> Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
> them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
> unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
> plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
> dissolved oxygen.
--
Robert Allison
New Braunfels, TX
The Daring Dufas
Feb 3, 2013, 1:40:18 PM2/3/13
to
but it would need to be drained on a schedule too as I think it could
catch some sediment from the incoming water. It would be available as a
ready backup and not that hard to bypass the other heater if/when it
failed. Assuming it a gas fired unit, it could be left on on a low
setting to keep the burners moisture and insect free. ^_^
TDD
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 3, 2013, 2:32:17 PM2/3/13
to
On Feb 3, 1:05 pm, Robert Allison <rimsho...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> On 2/3/2013 9:11 AM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> On 2/3/2013 9:11 AM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
> >>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
> >>> as possible?
>
> >>> Leave it full of water?
>
> >>> Drain it?
>
> >>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
> >>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>
> >> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>
> > Drain it fully, blow out any remaining water with compressed air, purge
> > with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
> > mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
>
> > Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
> > them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
> > unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
> > plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
> > dissolved oxygen.
>
> Dissolved oxygen? In H20?
Well, sure. Fish, after all, couldn't survive without it.
> >>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
> >>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
> >>> as possible?
>
> >>> Leave it full of water?
>
> >>> Drain it?
>
> >>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
> >>> allowing air in, it would rust.......
>
> >> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor?
>
> > Drain it fully, blow out any remaining water with compressed air, purge
> > with heated dry air until you get no condensation whatsoever on a chilled
> > mirror and ideally finally purge with dry nitrogen and seal.
>
> > Most rust inhibitors are to some degree toxic so you dont want to use
> > them in the tank if it will be used for kitchen or bathroom hot water
> > unless they are specifcally marketed as non-toxic for food processig
> > plant. If you water-fill it, ideally use boiled water to reduce
> > dissolved oxygen.
>
> Dissolved oxygen? In H20?
But as for drying the tank out with heated dry air
and filling it with nitrogen, somehow I don't think that
is going to happen.....
>
> --
> Robert Allison
> New Braunfels, TX- Hide quoted text -
Ian Malcolm
Feb 3, 2013, 2:59:17 PM2/3/13
to
"tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> But as for drying the tank out with heated dry air
> and filling it with nitrogen, somehow I don't think that
> is going to happen.....
>
>
Not really a problem if you can adapt the nozzle of an electric hot air
>
> But as for drying the tank out with heated dry air
> and filling it with nitrogen, somehow I don't think that
> is going to happen.....
>
>
gun to one of the ports of the tank and leave another port open. Don't
turn it up to its full paint-stripping setting! ;-)
I *KNOW* the dry nitrogen is unlikely to be convenient. . . .
Existential Angst
Feb 3, 2013, 4:12:34 PM2/3/13
to
"Ian Malcolm" <See.My.Sig...@totally.invalid> wrote in message
news:XnsA15CCB6784...@78.46.70.116...
and to whom chemistry is still a mystery.... lol
http://www.quadratec.com/products/92042_9103.htm?sgsc=C6Z06ZR1C6Z06ZR1&utm_medium=compshop&utm_source=googlemerchant&gclid=CMaxjsuGm7UCFUWo4AodIHoAIA
--
EA
news:XnsA15CCB6784...@78.46.70.116...
> "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> But as for drying the tank out with heated dry air
>> and filling it with nitrogen, somehow I don't think that
>> is going to happen.....
>>
>>
> Not really a problem if you can adapt the nozzle of an electric hot air
> gun to one of the ports of the tank and leave another port open. Don't
> turn it up to its full paint-stripping setting! ;-)
>
> I *KNOW* the dry nitrogen is unlikely to be convenient. . . .
Well, it is offered to auto buffs for whom nothing is too good for Nelly --
>>
>> But as for drying the tank out with heated dry air
>> and filling it with nitrogen, somehow I don't think that
>> is going to happen.....
>>
>>
> Not really a problem if you can adapt the nozzle of an electric hot air
> gun to one of the ports of the tank and leave another port open. Don't
> turn it up to its full paint-stripping setting! ;-)
>
> I *KNOW* the dry nitrogen is unlikely to be convenient. . . .
and to whom chemistry is still a mystery.... lol
http://www.quadratec.com/products/92042_9103.htm?sgsc=C6Z06ZR1C6Z06ZR1&utm_medium=compshop&utm_source=googlemerchant&gclid=CMaxjsuGm7UCFUWo4AodIHoAIA
--
EA
Stormin Mormon
Feb 3, 2013, 6:05:55 PM2/3/13
to
More accurately, dissolved air.
"Robert Allison" <rims...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:510ea6dd$0$33730$c3e8da3$a909...@news.astraweb.com...
"Robert Allison" <rims...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:510ea6dd$0$33730$c3e8da3$a909...@news.astraweb.com...
Jim Wilkins
Feb 3, 2013, 7:39:03 PM2/3/13
to
> "Robert Allison" <rims...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
> Dissolved oxygen? In H20?
> Robert Allison
> New Braunfels, TX
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> New Braunfels, TX
news:%6CPs.352636$ja6.3...@fed10.iad...
> More accurately, dissolved air.
> Christopher A. Young
Draw some hot water into a glass. The slowly disappearing milkiness is
> Christopher A. Young
tiny bubbles of air that comes out of solution when the pressure is
removed. Cold water holds more dissolved air than hot water.
Bob F
Feb 3, 2013, 10:55:26 PM2/3/13
to
Hot water furnaces and their piping don't corrode because the O2 that rusts them
gets used up, and the rusting stops, as I understand it.
As long as the anode is good, rust shouldn't happen, right?
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 4, 2013, 10:01:25 AM2/4/13
to
On Feb 3, 10:55 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As long as the anode is good, rust shouldn't happen, right?- Hide quoted text -
Rust involves oxygen combining with iron. The sacrificial anode
involves two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte. Think about boats.
They use a similar approach, with zinc being used
as the sacrificial anode to protect the underwater metals. Zinc is
more reactive than bronze, stainless steel, etc so it comes off
instead.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rust and what the anode is there for are two seperate things.
> - Show quoted text -
Rust involves oxygen combining with iron. The sacrificial anode
involves two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte. Think about boats.
They use a similar approach, with zinc being used
as the sacrificial anode to protect the underwater metals. Zinc is
more reactive than bronze, stainless steel, etc so it comes off
instead.
PrecisionmachinisT
Feb 3, 2013, 12:57:20 PM2/3/13
to
that cold water passes through it first will reduce summertime AC and water
heating costs by naturally warming the inlet water up to room temp.
Cydrome Leader
Feb 4, 2013, 2:38:59 PM2/4/13
to
anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been looking for
something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a photographic
darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
Anything homemade looking and attached to the water lines before the
backflow preventers might draw attention from the landlord or inspectors.
Just adding a waterheater-ish tank before the existing one would be the
easiest, as long as it draw no attention and won't burst over the weekend.
TomR
Feb 4, 2013, 2:56:03 PM2/4/13
to
save any money on energy costs. The reason is that for the water in the
first tank to be brought up to room temperature, it needs to draw its heat
energy from the room. So, it will cost that much more to heat the room
because some of the room heat is going toward heating the water in the first
tank. In other words, there is no free heat -- it either gets its heat from
being heated by at working hot water tank, or it gets its heat from the room
and that heat energy needs to be replaced by the heating system for the
room.
jamesgang
Feb 4, 2013, 3:53:29 PM2/4/13
to
On Monday, February 4, 2013 2:56:03 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote: > "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net... >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message >> news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... >>> A friend has a house that came with two identical water >>> heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity, >>> so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going >>> into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was >>> about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old. >>> >>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would >>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long >>> as possible? >>> >>> Leave it full of water? >>> >>> Drain it? >>> >>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because >>> allowing air in, it would rust....... >>> >>> >> >> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor? >> >> As an aside, shouldn't two water heaters be hooked up in series? >> Been meaning to post that to the group. The rcm peeple should have >> some insights into both Qs. > Having a second tank that's unpowered, uninsulated, and plumbed in > series so that cold water passes through it first will reduce > summertime AC and water heating costs by naturally warming the inlet > water up to room temp. I am not sure, but I think that technically speaking that approach won't save any money on energy costs. The reason is that for the water in the first tank to be brought up to room temperature, it needs to draw its heat energy from the room. So, it will cost that much more to heat the room because some of the room heat is going toward heating the water in the first tank. In other words, there is no free heat -- it either gets its heat from being heated by at working hot water tank, or it gets its heat from the room and that heat energy needs to be replaced by the heating system for the room.
I believe he said "reduce summer time costs". And it does do that since ground water and city water are usually a lot cooler than summer air temps.
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote: > "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net... >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message >> news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... >>> A friend has a house that came with two identical water >>> heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity, >>> so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going >>> into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was >>> about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old. >>> >>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would >>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long >>> as possible? >>> >>> Leave it full of water? >>> >>> Drain it? >>> >>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because >>> allowing air in, it would rust....... >>> >>> >> >> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor? >> >> As an aside, shouldn't two water heaters be hooked up in series? >> Been meaning to post that to the group. The rcm peeple should have >> some insights into both Qs. > Having a second tank that's unpowered, uninsulated, and plumbed in > series so that cold water passes through it first will reduce > summertime AC and water heating costs by naturally warming the inlet > water up to room temp. I am not sure, but I think that technically speaking that approach won't save any money on energy costs. The reason is that for the water in the first tank to be brought up to room temperature, it needs to draw its heat energy from the room. So, it will cost that much more to heat the room because some of the room heat is going toward heating the water in the first tank. In other words, there is no free heat -- it either gets its heat from being heated by at working hot water tank, or it gets its heat from the room and that heat energy needs to be replaced by the heating system for the room.
I run two wh in series with the 1st one on a 30amp switch in the hall. When I anticipate guests or otherwise needing extra hw I just turn it on.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 4, 2013, 4:14:47 PM2/4/13
to
On Feb 4, 3:53 pm, jamesgang <jamesgan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, February 4, 2013 2:56:03 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote: > "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message > news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net... >> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message >>news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... >>> A friend has a house that came with two identical water >>> heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity, >>> so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going >>> into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was >>> about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old. >>> >>> Given that a tank has already had some service, what would >>> you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long >>> as possible? >>> >>> Leave it full of water? >>> >>> Drain it? >>> >>> My thought was that draining it would be worse, because >>> allowing air in, it would rust....... >>> >>> >> >> Fill it with water, add a rust inhibitor? >> >> As an aside, shouldn't two water heaters be hooked up in series? >> Been meaning to post that to the group. The rcm peeple should have >> some insights into both Qs. > Having a second tank that's unpowered, uninsulated, and plumbed in > series so that cold water passes through it first will reduce > summertime AC and water heating costs by naturally warming the inlet > water up to room temp. I am not sure, but I think that technically speaking that approach won't save any money on energy costs. The reason is that for the water in the first tank to be brought up to room temperature, it needs to draw its heat energy from the room. So, it will cost that much more to heat the room because some of the room heat is going toward heating the water in the first tank. In other words, there is no free heat -- it either gets its heat from being heated by at working hot water tank, or it gets its heat from the room and that heat energy needs to be replaced by the heating system for the room.
> On Monday, February 4, 2013 2:56:03 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
>
> I believe he said "reduce summer time costs". And it does do that since ground water and city water are usually a lot cooler than summer air temps.
But the proposed tank isn't going to be sitting outside in
> I believe he said "reduce summer time costs". And it does do that since ground water and city water are usually a lot cooler than summer air temps.
the summer air. It's typically going to be in an unfinished
basement, or inside the living space. So, if you take city
water at 45F in winter and get it up to 60F in a basement,
I guess it will help some, but doubt it's worth the trouble.
In summer it would make even less difference, because
the incoming city water is going to be closer to basement
or living space temp.
For the guy asking if there are tanks suitable for the purpose,
that would seem to be any water tank that's suited for a
well pump. Preferably without a bladder inside, but that
could be removed. Might find one on craigslist....
TomR
Feb 4, 2013, 5:07:04 PM2/4/13
to
jamesgang wrote:
> I believe he said "reduce summer time costs". And it does do that
> since ground water and city water are usually a lot cooler than
> summer air temps.
You are correct. He wrote,
> I believe he said "reduce summer time costs". And it does do that
> since ground water and city water are usually a lot cooler than
> summer air temps.
"Having a second tank that's unpowered, uninsulated, and plumbed in series
so
that cold water passes through it first will reduce summertime AC and water
heating costs by naturally warming the inlet water up to room temp."
etc.
k...@attt.bizz
Feb 4, 2013, 5:40:25 PM2/4/13
to
Just add a valve on its inlet side so there is no pressure on it when
it's not in use. It should last a long time without constant pressure
on it. If it does leak, you're right there.
Jim Wilkins
Feb 4, 2013, 6:40:39 PM2/4/13
to
"Cydrome Leader" <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kep2oj$aog$1...@reader1.panix.com...
owner thought it was a good idea but couldn't find an inexpensive tank
in his catalog.
The two best possibilities I can think of are a bladder tank for a
well and a water softener tank.
http://www.wwpp.com/products/flexcon-fiberglass-tanks/flexcon-fiberglass-pressure-tanks.htm
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/softener-parts/resin-tanks.html
Though they won't take much pressure, a blue plastic 55 gallon barrel
is a cheap option for the rinse water. I have one hung high in a shed
at the back of my large lot for brush fire protection. The larger bung
plug has a knockout for 3/4" NPT. ~5 PSI bulges the bottom enough to
make it tip over.
jsw
news:kep2oj$aog$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> In rec.crafts.metalworking PrecisionmachinisT
> <precisionm...@notmail.com> wrote:
>> "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net...
>>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> ..........
> <precisionm...@notmail.com> wrote:
>> "Existential Angst" <fit...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:510e79e9$0$9808$607e...@cv.net...
>>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8b56815a-8209-4c99...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> Other than skinning a trashed water heater, most of which are
> leaking
> anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been
> looking for
> something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a
> photographic
> darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
I got nowhere by asking a plumbing supply house this question. The
> leaking
> anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been
> looking for
> something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a
> photographic
> darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
owner thought it was a good idea but couldn't find an inexpensive tank
in his catalog.
The two best possibilities I can think of are a bladder tank for a
well and a water softener tank.
http://www.wwpp.com/products/flexcon-fiberglass-tanks/flexcon-fiberglass-pressure-tanks.htm
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/softener-parts/resin-tanks.html
Though they won't take much pressure, a blue plastic 55 gallon barrel
is a cheap option for the rinse water. I have one hung high in a shed
at the back of my large lot for brush fire protection. The larger bung
plug has a knockout for 3/4" NPT. ~5 PSI bulges the bottom enough to
make it tip over.
jsw
Jim Wilkins
Feb 4, 2013, 6:46:02 PM2/4/13
to
"TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote in message
news:kep3nt$sql$1...@dont-email.me...
news:kep3nt$sql$1...@dont-email.me...
PrecisionmachinisT
Feb 5, 2013, 1:12:49 AM2/5/13
to
"TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote in message
news:kep3nt$sql$1...@dont-email.me...
reduction in AC usage.
Leon Fisk
Feb 5, 2013, 1:39:51 PM2/5/13
to
On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 19:38:59 +0000 (UTC)
Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Other than skinning a trashed water heater, most of which are leaking
>anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been looking for
>something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a photographic
>darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
<snip>
>anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been looking for
>something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a photographic
>darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
We have something like 150 ft of 1 inch black plastic water pipe in a
coil (maybe 3 ft in diameter), hanging on the wall downstairs before the
toilet supply. Does wonders in the summer time when they would sweat
otherwise. Used to have a galvanized water pressure tank for same years
ago but due to hard water it developed a lot of sediment. So far the
coiled up pipe seems to be working okay, maybe 20 years now.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 5:27:23 PM2/5/13
to
"Leon Fisk" <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote in message
news:kerjhs$vn3$1...@dont-email.me...
Putting that coil outside in the sun would be even better, in the summer.
Solar on the cheap....
Or in a black box, covered by glass..... really good solar, on the
cheap....
Toward the purpose-made tank Q: An old compressor tank, 30-50 gals? Or
smaller ones in series?
Even propane? Altho the fittings on propane are an experience to remove....
May want to paint the interior first.
--
EA
news:kerjhs$vn3$1...@dont-email.me...
Solar on the cheap....
Or in a black box, covered by glass..... really good solar, on the
cheap....
Toward the purpose-made tank Q: An old compressor tank, 30-50 gals? Or
smaller ones in series?
Even propane? Altho the fittings on propane are an experience to remove....
May want to paint the interior first.
--
EA
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 5:37:18 PM2/5/13
to
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:2a26917d-547a-4f3d...@r14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
A good observation, BUT the (dissolved) oxygen would/should combine with
sacrificial magnesium, zinc etc first, as well.
Magnesium, zinc, alum appear not to "rust" because the nature of those
oxides is *mechanically* stable, whereas iron oxides are not, constantly
exposing more fresh iron, ergo a deterioating process.
--
EA
news:2a26917d-547a-4f3d...@r14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 10:55 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> > A friend has a house that came with two identical water
> > heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity,
> > so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going
> > into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was
> > about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old.
>
> > Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
> > you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
> > as possible?
>
> > Leave it full of water?
>
> > Drain it?
>
> > My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
> > allowing air in, it would rust.......
>
> 2 thoughts"
>
> Hot water furnaces and their piping don't corrode because the O2 that
> rusts them
> gets used up, and the rusting stops, as I understand it.
>
> As long as the anode is good, rust shouldn't happen, right?- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rust and what the anode is there for are two seperate things.
Rust involves oxygen combining with iron. The sacrificial anode
involves two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte
====================================================
> trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> > A friend has a house that came with two identical water
> > heaters hooked up in parallel. He doesn't need all the capacity,
> > so we turned one of them off and turned off the water going
> > into it. This was several years ago. The water heater was
> > about 4 years old at the time, it's now 7 years old.
>
> > Given that a tank has already had some service, what would
> > you guys do to try to keep the spare tank available for as long
> > as possible?
>
> > Leave it full of water?
>
> > Drain it?
>
> > My thought was that draining it would be worse, because
> > allowing air in, it would rust.......
>
> 2 thoughts"
>
> Hot water furnaces and their piping don't corrode because the O2 that
> rusts them
> gets used up, and the rusting stops, as I understand it.
>
> As long as the anode is good, rust shouldn't happen, right?- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rust and what the anode is there for are two seperate things.
Rust involves oxygen combining with iron. The sacrificial anode
involves two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte
A good observation, BUT the (dissolved) oxygen would/should combine with
sacrificial magnesium, zinc etc first, as well.
Magnesium, zinc, alum appear not to "rust" because the nature of those
oxides is *mechanically* stable, whereas iron oxides are not, constantly
exposing more fresh iron, ergo a deterioating process.
--
EA
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 5:38:56 PM2/5/13
to
"jamesgang" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:181de689-2fe2-46a7...@googlegroups.com...
==============================================
Staged water heating.... what a neat idear!!
--
EA
news:181de689-2fe2-46a7...@googlegroups.com...
Staged water heating.... what a neat idear!!
--
EA
chaniarts
Feb 5, 2013, 6:19:27 PM2/5/13
to
On 2/5/2013 3:27 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> "Leon Fisk" <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote in message
> news:kerjhs$vn3$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 19:38:59 +0000 (UTC)
>> Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Other than skinning a trashed water heater, most of which are leaking
>>> anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been looking for
>>> something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a photographic
>>> darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
>> <snip>
>>
>> We have something like 150 ft of 1 inch black plastic water pipe in a
>> coil (maybe 3 ft in diameter), hanging on the wall downstairs before the
>> toilet supply. Does wonders in the summer time when they would sweat
>> otherwise. Used to have a galvanized water pressure tank for same years
>> ago but due to hard water it developed a lot of sediment. So far the
>> coiled up pipe seems to be working okay, maybe 20 years now.
>
> Putting that coil outside in the sun would be even better, in the summer.
> Solar on the cheap....
> Or in a black box, covered by glass..... really good solar, on the
> cheap....
to get hot water in a toilet?
> "Leon Fisk" <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote in message
> news:kerjhs$vn3$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 19:38:59 +0000 (UTC)
>> Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Other than skinning a trashed water heater, most of which are leaking
>>> anyways, are there purpose made tanks for this use? I've been looking for
>>> something along these lines to get "room temp" water for a photographic
>>> darkroom where there's extended draw of water.
>> <snip>
>>
>> We have something like 150 ft of 1 inch black plastic water pipe in a
>> coil (maybe 3 ft in diameter), hanging on the wall downstairs before the
>> toilet supply. Does wonders in the summer time when they would sweat
>> otherwise. Used to have a galvanized water pressure tank for same years
>> ago but due to hard water it developed a lot of sediment. So far the
>> coiled up pipe seems to be working okay, maybe 20 years now.
>
> Putting that coil outside in the sun would be even better, in the summer.
> Solar on the cheap....
> Or in a black box, covered by glass..... really good solar, on the
> cheap....
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 6:29:59 PM2/5/13
to
"chaniarts" <chan...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kes415$4bn$1...@dont-email.me...
Certainly..... who wants cold water splashing on their ass?? sheeesh.....
--
EA
>
>
news:kes415$4bn$1...@dont-email.me...
--
EA
>
>
The Daring Dufas
Feb 5, 2013, 7:42:30 PM2/5/13
to
with the water supply to the toilet to keep the toilet tank from
sweating. ^_^
TDD
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 9:36:49 PM2/5/13
to
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message
news:kes8sv$m26$2...@dont-email.me...
Sounds like bidet temperature.... lol
--
EA
> TDD
>
>
news:kes8sv$m26$2...@dont-email.me...
--
EA
> TDD
>
>
The Daring Dufas
Feb 5, 2013, 10:12:51 PM2/5/13
to
TDD
Existential Angst
Feb 5, 2013, 11:02:24 PM2/5/13
to
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message
news:keshms$tgr$1...@dont-email.me...
A few here.... George, Attila, JoeBoi -- will proly further misconstrue it,
and use it to pressurize demselves, shooting off the bidet like a water
rocket.... proly up to the stratosphere.
--
EA
>
> TDD
Michael A. Terrell
Feb 6, 2013, 7:00:02 AM2/6/13
to
The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> Existential Angst wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like bidet temperature.... lol
> >
>
> You mean one of those French made pet water fountains in a bathroom. ^_^
Shouldn't you use ice water for those?
> Existential Angst wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like bidet temperature.... lol
> >
>
> You mean one of those French made pet water fountains in a bathroom. ^_^
The Daring Dufas
Feb 6, 2013, 7:14:42 AM2/6/13
to
TDD
Michael A. Terrell
Feb 6, 2013, 8:29:23 AM2/6/13
to
dirty look, because all the ice has melted & the water in their bowl is
warm?
The Daring Dufas
Feb 6, 2013, 9:00:26 AM2/6/13
to
is Sandy, a Red Chihuahua who thinks she's a Rottweiler and her little
mouth is so tiny, a normal sized ice cube is too big for her anyway.
Heck, the body temperature of those barking rats is normally �101�F and
it's surprisingly cold at floor level which is why Sandy is always
finding something to burrow under like a coat, towel or blanket to stay
warm. ^_^
TDD
Attila Iskander
Feb 6, 2013, 9:06:14 AM2/6/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wpGdnfzYsYwpx4_M...@earthlink.com...
Picked out the ice cubes and dropped them next to the bowl and ignored them
while they melted and made a puddle.
k...@attt.bizz
Feb 6, 2013, 12:53:21 PM2/6/13
to
a lot more surface area (per weight) than large dogs.
Michael A. Terrell
Feb 6, 2013, 3:56:50 PM2/6/13
to
can hit 120 degrees out in the sun may make a difference.
Michael A. Terrell
Feb 6, 2013, 3:59:30 PM2/6/13
to
The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > You've never seen a dog go berserk over ice cubes? Or give you a
> > dirty look, because all the ice has melted & the water in their bowl is
> > warm?
>
> The Rotthuahua that adopted me doesn't like the cold. Actually her name
> is Sandy, a Red Chihuahua who thinks she's a Rottweiler and her little
> mouth is so tiny, a normal sized ice cube is too big for her anyway.
> Heck, the body temperature of those barking rats is normally �101�F and
> it's surprisingly cold at floor level which is why Sandy is always
> finding something to burrow under like a coat, towel or blanket to stay
> warm. ^_^
The Shitzu by dad & step mom had would sit out in the yard, and lay
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > You've never seen a dog go berserk over ice cubes? Or give you a
> > dirty look, because all the ice has melted & the water in their bowl is
> > warm?
>
> The Rotthuahua that adopted me doesn't like the cold. Actually her name
> is Sandy, a Red Chihuahua who thinks she's a Rottweiler and her little
> mouth is so tiny, a normal sized ice cube is too big for her anyway.
> Heck, the body temperature of those barking rats is normally �101�F and
> it's surprisingly cold at floor level which is why Sandy is always
> finding something to burrow under like a coat, towel or blanket to stay
> warm. ^_^
on snow when it was below freezing. Maggie loved to have her bowl full
of ice water & cubes to chew on. :)
The Daring Dufas
Feb 6, 2013, 5:04:06 PM2/6/13
to
four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped in
hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5�F
for the mini-mutts. ^_^
TDD
nestork
Feb 7, 2013, 3:27:35 AM2/7/13
to
'The Daring Dufas[_8_ Wrote:
> ;The goofy little dog burrows under the blankets with me and is like a
> four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
> in
> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5°F
> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
> TDD
This is trivia, but the 1970's rock band named "Three Dog Night" got
> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
> in
> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5°F
> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
> TDD
it's name from the Inuit practice of sleeping with their sled dogs in
the snow shelters they would make for themselves every night. That's
because dogs have a higher metabolic rate than people so their body
temperature is higher, and sleeping with dogs is like sleeping with hot
water bottles. A three dog night would, according to Inuit hunters, be
a very cold night.
PS: The term "Inuit" refers to the indigenous peoples of northern
Alaska, nothern Canada and Greenland, and means "people" in the native
language of the Inuit. If any of the Americans in here ever get up to
Alaska, northern Canada or Greenland, keep in mind that the Inuit
consider the word "eskimo" to be a derogatory slur (but not nearly as
derogatory or insulting as the "N" word is to African Americans).
That's cuz the word "eskimo" is what the early Europeans settlers
referred to these people as, and in the Inuit language the word "eskimo"
roughly translates to "eater of raw meat". The Inuit have long felt
that was an insulting label.
The government of Canada trains some Inuit people to be it's eyes and
ears in the North. These people make regular patrols in the remotest
regions of our northern islands and are trained to identify foreign
(notably Soviet and Danish) military activity in Northern Canada and
report that activity back to the Canadian government. This
reconnaisance is especially important in the area between Baffin Island
and Greenland where the ownership of Hans Island (and therefore the
ownership of the associated mineral resources and fishing rights) is in
dispute. This group of Inuit are officially part of the Canadian
military and are known as the "Canadian Rangers". The role of the
Canadian Rangers will increase in importance as global warming opens up
a year-round ice-free sea route between Europe and the far East.
'Canadian Rangers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Rangers)
--
nestork
k...@attt.bizz
Feb 7, 2013, 1:01:16 PM2/7/13
to
On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:27:35 +0000, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>'The Daring Dufas[_8_ Wrote:
>> ;The goofy little dog burrows under the blankets with me and is like a
>> four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
>> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
>> in
>> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5�F
>> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
>> TDD
>
>This is trivia, but the 1970's rock band named "Three Dog Night" got
>it's name from the Inuit practice of sleeping with their sled dogs in
>the snow shelters they would make for themselves every night. That's
>because dogs have a higher metabolic rate than people so their body
>temperature is higher, and sleeping with dogs is like sleeping with hot
>water bottles. A three dog night would, according to Inuit hunters, be
>a very cold night.
c/Inuit/Aborigines/
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>'The Daring Dufas[_8_ Wrote:
>> ;The goofy little dog burrows under the blankets with me and is like a
>> four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
>> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
>> in
>> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5�F
>> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
>> TDD
>
>This is trivia, but the 1970's rock band named "Three Dog Night" got
>it's name from the Inuit practice of sleeping with their sled dogs in
>the snow shelters they would make for themselves every night. That's
>because dogs have a higher metabolic rate than people so their body
>temperature is higher, and sleeping with dogs is like sleeping with hot
>water bottles. A three dog night would, according to Inuit hunters, be
>a very cold night.
c/dog/Dingo
>PS: The term "Inuit" refers to the indigenous peoples of northern
>Alaska, nothern Canada and Greenland, and means "people" in the native
>language of the Inuit. If any of the Americans in here ever get up to
>Alaska, northern Canada or Greenland, keep in mind that the Inuit
>consider the word "eskimo" to be a derogatory slur (but not nearly as
>derogatory or insulting as the "N" word is to African Americans).
>That's cuz the word "eskimo" is what the early Europeans settlers
>referred to these people as, and in the Inuit language the word "eskimo"
>roughly translates to "eater of raw meat". The Inuit have long felt
>that was an insulting label.
>The government of Canada trains some Inuit people to be it's eyes and
>ears in the North. These people make regular patrols in the remotest
>regions of our northern islands and are trained to identify foreign
>(notably Soviet and Danish) military activity in Northern Canada and
>report that activity back to the Canadian government. This
>reconnaisance is especially important in the area between Baffin Island
>and Greenland where the ownership of Hans Island (and therefore the
>ownership of the associated mineral resources and fishing rights) is in
>dispute. This group of Inuit are officially part of the Canadian
>military and are known as the "Canadian Rangers". The role of the
>Canadian Rangers will increase in importance as global warming opens up
>a year-round ice-free sea route between Europe and the far East.
>'Canadian Rangers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia'
>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Rangers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Dog_Night#Band_name_origin
The Daring Dufas
Feb 7, 2013, 1:30:39 PM2/7/13
to
On 2/7/2013 2:27 AM, nestork wrote:
> 'The Daring Dufas[_8_ Wrote:
>> ;The goofy little dog burrows under the blankets with me and is like a
>> four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
>> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
>> in
>> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5�F
>> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
>> TDD
>
> This is trivia, but the 1970's rock band named "Three Dog Night" got
> it's name from the Inuit practice of sleeping with their sled dogs in
> the snow shelters they would make for themselves every night. That's
> because dogs have a higher metabolic rate than people so their body
> temperature is higher, and sleeping with dogs is like sleeping with hot
> water bottles. A three dog night would, according to Inuit hunters, be
> a very cold night.
>
I thought the "Three do night" reference involved a practice of the
> 'The Daring Dufas[_8_ Wrote:
>> ;The goofy little dog burrows under the blankets with me and is like a
>> four legged hot water bottle and sometimes the little critter will lick
>> my knee and of course it tickles but it feels like a big Q-tip dipped
>> in
>> hot water. An Internet search shows a normal body temp of up to 102.5�F
>> for the mini-mutts. ^_^
>> TDD
>
> This is trivia, but the 1970's rock band named "Three Dog Night" got
> it's name from the Inuit practice of sleeping with their sled dogs in
> the snow shelters they would make for themselves every night. That's
> because dogs have a higher metabolic rate than people so their body
> temperature is higher, and sleeping with dogs is like sleeping with hot
> water bottles. A three dog night would, according to Inuit hunters, be
> a very cold night.
>
Australian Aborigines? That's what I remember anyway. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Feb 7, 2013, 2:38:13 PM2/7/13
to
referring to three hairdos. ^_^
TDD
k...@attt.bizz
Feb 7, 2013, 7:07:35 PM2/7/13
to
0 new messages