Why you cagers turning left in front of we bikers are the most dangerous on the road

[badgolferman]

Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/21/2022 12:01 AM, badgolferman wrote:
> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37

That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running from
police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.

[badgolferman]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>
> That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running from
> police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.

The biker died after he hit the front end of the cager turning left.
The two cagers went to the hospital (probably only for the lawsuit).

The police made a statement that said they were absolutely not chasing him.
At least they were not chasing him on the ground.
Obviously there was that helicopter which was tracking him from the air.
But no indication yet that the biker knew the helicopter was above him.

Still, the cager turned left in front of him and you saw what happened.

The most dangerous time for a biker is when a cager coming from the opposite
direction turns left in an intersection and this video shows what happens.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:53:07 -0000 (UTC),

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>>
>> That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running from
>> police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.
>
>The biker died after he hit the front end of the cager turning left.

So people aren't allowed to turn left? You never turn left?

>The two cagers went to the hospital (probably only for the lawsuit).

People don't get hurt when their car hits a motorcycle going 100?

>The police made a statement that said they were absolutely not chasing him.

From the pOV of the accident it only matters how fast he was going, not
if someone was chasing him. He was passing cars, that I think were
moving themselves.

>At least they were not chasing him on the ground.
>Obviously there was that helicopter which was tracking him from the air.
>But no indication yet that the biker knew the helicopter was above him.
>
>Still, the cager turned left in front of him and you saw what happened.

So people aren't allowed to turn left?

>The most dangerous time for a biker is when a cager coming from the opposite

I'm sure it is. That's why bikers should slow down at intersections,
just as other cars should. I hope you do.

[angelica...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37

When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.

It can be quite difficult to assess the speed of oncoming traffic,
particularly if the oncoming traffic has only one headlight.

You remind me of a foggy evening; every time we saw headlights ahead
of us, my passenger joked, "It's two motorcycles: drive between them."

Cindy Hamilton

[Wade Garrett]

Back in the day, I was a serious recreational biker and put on many
thousands of miles annually. As time went by, traffic and the drivers in
my area got so bad that I restricted my riding to early Sunday mornings.

About 30 years ago, I concluded it was unsafe on two wheels and
reluctantly sold my pride and joy.

--
Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you’re stupid
and make bad decisions

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/21/2022 1:53 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> .
>
> The most dangerous time for a biker is when a cager coming from the opposite
> direction turns left in an intersection and this video shows what happens.

Yes, the driver may see the oncoming bike and estimates the speed and
distance at about the speed limit. If the speed is way above normal,
this can be the result. Same thing often happens with cars too.

[Frank]

On 1/21/2022 7:18 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 1/21/22 12:17 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/21/2022 12:01 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>>
>>
>> That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running
>> from police.  I bet that hurt.  Pretty much self inflicted.
>
> Back in the day, I was a serious recreational biker and put on many
> thousands of miles annually. As time went by, traffic and the drivers in
> my area got so bad that I restricted my riding to early Sunday mornings.
>
> About 30 years ago, I concluded it was unsafe on two wheels and
> reluctantly sold my pride and joy.
>

I learned on a bicycle after breaking my collar bone.

A neighbor still has a limp from his motorcycle accident that resulted
in a month in the hospital. He still rides.

I believe I read that the fatality rate on a motorcycle was 38 times as
bad as on a car.

[Mark Lloyd]

On 1/21/22 04:57, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>
> When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
> that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
> yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.

My teacher emphasized that no one ever HAS the right of way. It's just
something you're supposed to yield.

> It can be quite difficult to assess the speed of oncoming traffic,
> particularly if the oncoming traffic has only one headlight.
>
> You remind me of a foggy evening; every time we saw headlights ahead
> of us, my passenger joked, "It's two motorcycles: drive between them."
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."
[Martin Luther]

[Bob F]

The biker was totally at fault. Nobody can be expected to predict a bike
going 2-3 times the limit blasting into an intersection between stopped
cars. He obviously wanted to die.

[Bob F]

On 1/21/2022 8:22 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 1/21/22 04:57, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
>>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>>
>> When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
>> that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
>> yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.
>
> My teacher emphasized that no one ever HAS the right of way. It's just
> something you're supposed to yield.

Mine used the term "dead right".

[Marilyn Manson]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 1:53:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
> >> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> >> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
> >
> > That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running from
> > police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.
> The biker died after he hit the front end of the cager turning left.
> The two cagers went to the hospital (probably only for the lawsuit).
>
> The police made a statement that said they were absolutely not chasing him.
> At least they were not chasing him on the ground.
> Obviously there was that helicopter which was tracking him from the air.
> But no indication yet that the biker knew the helicopter was above him.
>
> Still, the cager turned left in front of him and you saw what happened.

Start the video at 35 seconds, not 37, and run it at .05 speed.

At 36 seconds the biker passes between 2 cars before entering the intersection.
At 37 seconds you can see a dark colored car completing a left turn as it crosses
the crosswalk. The car that was hit has just started the left hand turn. The white
car behind that one is moving forward into the crosswalk preparing to make a left.

That indicates to me that the biker ran a red light after illegally passing between
the cars stopped at the light. The car that was struck had the legal right of way.
Yes, it is true that the legal right-of-way doesn't always take priority but there is
no way that you put any blame on the driver for not seeing/expecting a motorcycle
to emerge from between 2 stopped vehicles at a high rate of speed. At the time
the driver looked and made sure that it was safe to turn the biker was probably
nowhere in sight.

>
> The most dangerous time for a biker is when a cager coming from the opposite
> direction turns left in an intersection and this video shows what happens.

Not true. The most dangerous time for a biker is when the biker is not following
the right-of-way rules and puts himself in situation where something like that can
happen.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:57:40 -0800 (PST),

"angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
>
>When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
>that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
>yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.

Here lies Daniel O'Shea.
He died defending his right-of-way.
His right was clear and his will was strong,
but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

[Bob F]

But BadCyclistMan was incapable of seeing any of this. He thinks it is
car drivers responsibility to detect dangerous suicidal motorcyclists
and protect them from their own insane actions, no matter how many laws
they are violating.

I hope the cyclist's estate can cover the damages and injuries he caused.

[Marilyn Manson]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 11:43:47 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:57:40 -0800 (PST),
> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
> >> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> >> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
> >
> >When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
> >that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
> >yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.
> Here lies Daniel O'Shea.
> He died defending his right-of-way.
> His right was clear and his will was strong,
> but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Funny poem but totally unrelated to this situation.

Nobody died while defending their right-of-way.

[Marilyn Manson]

bgm will probably claim that he was just pointing out the danger of left
hand turning drivers, about which he is not entirely wrong. Problem is, he
picked a f'ing terrible example to make his case.

[Rod Speed]

Wade Garrett <Wa...@cooler.net> wrote

> On 1/21/22 12:17 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/21/2022 12:01 AM, badgolferman wrote:

>>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37

>> That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speedsrunning from

>> police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.
>
> Back in the day, I was a serious recreational biker and put on many
> thousands of miles annually. As time went by, traffic and the drivers in
> my area got so bad that I restricted my riding to early Sunday mornings.
>
> About 30 years ago, I concluded it was unsafe on two wheels and
> reluctantly sold my pride and joy.

Yeah, I have been watching that magnificent UK reality TV series
24 Hours in Emergency and wouldn't be riding a bike after seeing
what a crash can do to your body. And thats just the survivors.

Mate of mine managed to come off on one of our roundabouts
with those big arrow things on the road surface on a wet day
and even such a minor accident left him pretty fucked for the
best part of a year.

Another mate in college came within an ace of losing his leg.
Only reason it didn't happen was because his mother wouldnt
let them cut it off.

[Rod Speed]

Specially with modern cars where you are unlikely to get injured
at all unless its outside a builtup area.

[Bob F]

He chose the case, and defended it when challenged. He is probably a
f'ing horrible motorcyclist if he is incapable of seeing how wrong
everything that cyclist did was. The driver he complained about was
probably not in any way the cause of the accident.

Even the term "cager" suggests the attitude that the car driver was
somehow bad.

[trader_4]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 3:27:04 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:53:07 -0000 (UTC),
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >>> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> >>> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
> >>
> >> That is what happens when the biker is an idiot and speeds running from
> >> police. I bet that hurt. Pretty much self inflicted.
> >
> >The biker died after he hit the front end of the cager turning left.
> So people aren't allowed to turn left? You never turn left?
> >The two cagers went to the hospital (probably only for the lawsuit).
> People don't get hurt when their car hits a motorcycle going 100?
> >The police made a statement that said they were absolutely not chasing him.
> From the pOV of the accident it only matters how fast he was going, not
> if someone was chasing him. He was passing cars, that I think were
> moving themselves.
> >At least they were not chasing him on the ground.
> >Obviously there was that helicopter which was tracking him from the air.
> >But no indication yet that the biker knew the helicopter was above him.
> >
> >Still, the cager turned left in front of him and you saw what happened.
> So people aren't allowed to turn left?

The issue isn't turning left, it's turning left and not yielding to oncoming
traffic. This is a very real and serious problem with cars turning or pulling
out in front of a bike. It's as if many motorists brains do not register an
oncoming bike as oncoming traffic.

[Marilyn Manson]

Before you start defending this particular case, check out the example that
the OP used to make his case. Then read his defense in a subsequent post.

"Still, the cager turned left in front of him and you saw what happened."

Use my suggestion of starting the video at no later than 35 seconds and
run it at .05 speed. Start even earlier if you want to see all the other traffic
violations he could be ticketed for.

I have no argument with that an oncoming left hand turn can be dangerous
to a person on a motorcycle, but read what the OP wrote (in multiple posts)
and look carefully at the example he posted.

He is clearly blaming the "cager" when it's the idiot on the bike that is 100%
at fault.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 04:52:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

fOn Sat, 22 Jan 2022 04:50:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[Snag]

Unless the driver is drunk ... 6:30 AM on a February morning , I'm on
my way to work . Drunk POC turns left in front of me too close to even
think "oh shit this is it". He staggers up the street while I'm pulling
myself out of the wreckage of my bike . The guy that comes back down the
street a few minutes later - in the same clothes - is neither drunk nor
staggering . And "every vehicle he owns but this one is insured" .
That's OK , my u/m coverage paid me , and then proceeded to (try?)
collect from them .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fears begin .

[Ed Pawlowski]

Motorcycles magnify the problem. The high speed of the bike made it far
worse both in timing and injury

There is a reason UPS has pretty much eliminated left turns in their route

How many accidents are from left turns?
Approximately, 22% of all car accidents involve a left turning vehicle
and 53 % of all cross-path accidents are the result of left turns. The
NHTSA estimates that almost half of the 6 million auto accidents that
occur each year are "intersection-related" and that the majority of
these are left turns.

[Ed Pawlowski]

In most cases he may be correct, but even a lawyer has an exception to
it. Note the speed comment.

https://www.jimdodsonlaw.com/faqs/is-a-car-making-a-left-turn-always-at-fault-in-a-florida-accident-.cfm

According to Florida traffic laws, a car making a left turn should yield
to oncoming vehicles and only turn when it is safe. Therefore, a motor
vehicle accident is often the fault of the driver making the left turn.
The only times this rule may not apply are when:

the other driver was driving above the speed limit;
the other driver failed to stop at a red traffic signal; or
an unexpected event caused the car to stop during the left turn.

[Bob F]

Just about any youtube "Bad Driver" video will show you multiple
examples of drivers turning left and hitting others running the red
light. Motorcycles are just a more dangerous way to run lights, as
BadBikerMans example has demonstrated clearly. I am amazed BadBikerMan
has survived if he thinks that was the car drivers fault.

[badgolferman]

badgolferman wrote:

>Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
>https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37

The author of this thread and any others with my name are frauds.
Whoever is masquerading as me please drop it. My identity and email
address have been hijacked by someone using Mixmin.

[Marilyn Manson]

How do we know you're not the fake? ;-)

[Bob F]

I have to admit it sure did look like troll material.

First I've heard of Mixmin. Worth watching out for on troll class posts.

[badgolferman]

How many threads have you seen me start other than the monthly
statistics one?

[badgolferman]

Mixmin is a newsserver which doesn't require registration, much like
AIOE. Unlike AIOE though, the server admin doesn't respond or care
about abuse messages.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:43:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski

This last one is interestng. It means aiui that if he stops in the
middle of his turn but for no external reason, no good reason beilng
like he has second thoughts about turning, his phone rings, he wants to
scratch his nose, so that he is still in the oncooming vehicles's way,
when the oncoming thought he'd be out of the way by then, the
left-turning car can be liable**. Even when NOT moving.

An unexpected event could be that the car turning in front of him s tops
moving. Or some 4th car appears. I wonder what they would say about
an eyelash getting in the driver's eye, or his having to cough.

Once you've started your turn, you can be obliged to finish it. When
I'm the other driver I certainly proceed as if the driver in my way will
have moved by the time I get there, and I think I picked this practice
up by watching other people, but I dont' proceed so fast that I can't
stop if he doesn't move.


**When my brother was about 22, and hadn't had a car in college, or high
school, he turned left in front of someone who hit him just behind the
right front wheel. He cut a verticle rectangular hole there, 12" high
by 3" wide, cut on 3 sides and bent evenly at the rear. Cars were big
then so there was enough room for this between the wheel well and the
door. I think everyone just let it go, and we thought it was the other
driver's fault. It probably was but but if the law was as I think it is
in Flordia now, maybe my bother stopped suddenly and it was his fault?

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 08:56:33 -0800 (PST), Marilyn

Who says I'm writing about the OP's situation? I writing about the
questions raised by others whether right-of-way is something you can
have or something that exists only to be yielded, etc. And it's related
to that.

>Nobody died while defending their right-of-way.

Everyone knew this. Don't look for disagreements.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:40:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski

I think I'd heard that.

>
>How many accidents are from left turns?
>Approximately, 22% of all car accidents involve a left turning vehicle
>and 53 % of all cross-path accidents are the result of left turns. The

Wow, and wow.

>NHTSA estimates that almost half of the 6 million auto accidents that
>occur each year are "intersection-related" and that the majority of
>these are left turns.

When I rode a bicycle regularly, I noticed that other drivers, I noticed
especially that those entering from cross streets or driveways, treated
me like I was a car. That is, I'm going 10 or 12 mph and they have
plenty of time to pull into the street without getting hit by me, but
they wouldn't have enough time if i were going 25 or 30, but they don't
have a separate rule in their head when it's safe to turn for 12mph. By
the time they have time to observe my actual speed, I'm half way there,
now they dont' have time even at my real speed. I think if I were
walking at 3mph, they'd have a rule for that, know right off it's 3mph
and they have time.

And I think drivers don't have a rule for 100mph because they have so
little experience with that, and even if they see the oncoming car or
moto, from head on it's hard to tell that its' going faster than 50, and
even if you could use clues to calculate its speed, they have to turn
their eyes back to look where *they themselves* are going. So like they
assume I'm going 25 or 30, their minds assume a car is going 40 to 60.

[Marilyn Manson]

You did see the wink, didn't you?

I'm trusting you. It's all good.

[Marilyn Manson]

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 6:31:30 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 08:56:33 -0800 (PST), Marilyn
> Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 11:43:47 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:57:40 -0800 (PST),
> >> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 12:01:12 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
> >> >> Why cagers turning left are the most dangerous to bikers
> >> >> https://youtu.be/SwsttyjeJlQ?t=37
> >> >
> >> >When I took driver's ed a million years ago, they impressed on us
> >> >that even when we have the right-of-way, we only have it if someone
> >> >yields it to us, and that we should never assume we'll safely get it.
> >> Here lies Daniel O'Shea.
> >> He died defending his right-of-way.
> >> His right was clear and his will was strong,
> >> but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.
> >
> >Funny poem but totally unrelated to this situation.
> Who says I'm writing about the OP's situation?

Not me.

> I writing about the
> questions raised by others whether right-of-way is something you can
> have or something that exists only to be yielded, etc. And it's related
> to that.

Yep.

> >Nobody died while defending their right-of-way.
> Everyone knew this. Don't look for disagreements.

The only person I disagreed with was the (now known to be fake) OP.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Jan 2022 19:58:49 -0000 (UTC),

It didn't seem like you, and I have't held it against you.

But don't ride your motorcycle down my street .

[trader_4]

Nothing I posed had anything to do with defending this case, I was only addressing
the fact that drivers turning in front of motorcycles is a well known and serious problem.

[badgolferman]

If I did you wouldn't have any problem seeing it.
https://ibb.co/0nrsBqh

[angelica...@yahoo.com]

It's unlikely I would actually see it.

When faced with a 1-mile stretch of straight, smooth pavement and a
45-mph speed limit, what would you do?

I hear a lot more traffic than I manage to see.

Cindy Hamilton

[rbowman]

Urp... I suppose you have a hi-viz vest too. Is what appears to be a
statue of the BVM an integral part of the bike?

[Peeler]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 10:50:45 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Urp...

Having another brain fart, bigmouth?

--
Yet more absolutely idiotic senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you're going for a coronary might as well
do it right."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>