Ideas to remove 50-year old 2-inch diamater galvanized "nipple" under kitchen sink
Harold Lathom
The 50-year-old 2-inch diameter threaded galvanized pipe that
horizontally protrudes about a half inch from the cabinet under the
kitchen sink is leaking where it meets the 10-year-old plastic pipes that
drain the kitchen sinks and garbage disposal unit.
The threads are all screwed up so I want to replace the nipple.
I can only see the last 1/2 inch of that threaded nipple but it appears
to go through the 3/4" thick kitchen cabinet into the wall about two
inches (or so) and into a T fitting where the vertical up pipe goes to a
vent on the roof while the vertical down pipe goes to the crawlspace
drain pipes.
The problem is how best to remove the four-inch long (I assume) nipple
when only 1/2" of it sticks out of the cabinet attached to the wall.
One option, of course, is to rip out the cabinet, but, that's a LOT of
work to replace a two-dollar four-inch-ling two-inch-wide nipple!
Is there an easier way to get the 50-year-old nipple out?
RicodJour
Rock and a hard place. The normal techniques for breaking a big
nipple lose won't work too well when they're that far in the wall.
You don't have to remove the whole cabinet, you could cut an access
panel out of the back of the cabinet, open up the wall then remove the
nipple, and patch up the hole. Cut out the back of the cabinet neatly
and you can re-use the piece to patch it. It's in the back of the
cabinet under a sink so the aesthetics are not a big deal.
R
Ken
Can you cut two slots with a Dremel tool or a hack saw on opposite
sides of the exposed pipe? You could then insert a piece of steel
across the slots and use a pipe wrench or crescent wrench to remove the
nipple.
Smitty Two
Harold Lathom <75537...@compuserve.com> wrote:
Don't they make internal pipe wrenches for that situation?
RicodJour
> In article <ihqjvt$as...@speranza.aioe.org>,
They make internal pipe wrenches, but successfully removing a 50 year
old galvanized nipple under a sink with one is another matter. My way
of looking at it is that you can mess about working your way up to
cutting into the cabinet, spend a lot of time working in a cramped
space where you can't get your weight on the wrench, someone will
mention heat and then there's the risk of fire), the odds of busting
open some knuckles, etc. I'd just bite the bullet and open up the
cabinet, cut off the nipple to the point where you can get a
reciprocating blade inside and see what you're doing (leave about 1"
exposed), and carefully cut two or three slots on the inside of the
nipple stub without cutting into the T's thread, and then use a cold
chisel to knock the pieces towards the center of the nipple.
R
cl...@snyder.on.ca
How about just cleaning it up and epoxying a fitting to it to take
the plastic????
Chances of removing it without doing further damage inside the wall
are remote, at best.
Mark
>
> How about just cleaning it up and epoxying a fitting to it to take
> the plastic????
> Chances of removing it without doing further damage inside the wall
> are remote, at best.
yeah, it's a drain pipe, right?
no pressure
Mark
Dean Hoffman
> How about just cleaning it up and epoxying a fitting to it to take
> the plastic????
> Chances of removing it without doing further damage inside the wall
> are remote, at best.
I'd be tempted to get some 2" hose a couple hose clamps.
aemeijers
I don't recommend it except as a last resort before carving an access
hole through the back of the cabinet, but I have had some luck with
narrow-nose vise-grips clamped on one edge at an angle. If OP has some
way to cut slots in the front, he could drive a piece of steel stock in
the slots, and then clamp vise-grips onto that.
The plumbing gods hate me- if I tried to pull a confined nipple like
that, the threads in the fitting in the wall would tear off on me. Had
that happen with a shower once, and it was a royal pain to extract, a
fragment at a time, after hand-hacksawing the inside of the torn-off
threaded shower arm end.
--
aem sends...
Ed Pawlowski
"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote in message
news:ihqnkq$ig5$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
As would I. It can be quite a job trying to get that nipple out after all
this time. No pressure on a drain, I'd try a patch job first.
Harold Lathom
> Cut out the back of the cabinet neatly and you can
> re-use the piece to patch it.
I thought about that but unless I cut a two-foot square section, how does
cutting around the nipple give me access for the pipe wrench?
It's hard to explain but I now have only 1/2 inch (or less) of threads
sticking horizontally out of the cabinet.
If I cut the cabinet 3/4" back, say, with a five-inch square - then the
only pipe wrench I can fit on the two-inch-diameter nipple is one that is
five inches long. That won't give me much leverage.
My pipe wrenches are about two feet long. So, I'd have to cut a two-foot
square hole in the cabinet around the pipe to give me the kind of access
you're suggesting. Right?
I do want your help so I hope I didn't misunderstand what you said.
To repeat, I had thought about cutting just a hole in the cabinet but
that hole needs to be as wide as my pipe wrench is long, right? For it do
to any good?
Or do I misunderstand the solution?
Harold Lathom
> Can you cut two slots with a Dremel tool or a hack saw on opposite
> sides of the exposed pipe? You could then insert a piece of steel
> across the slots and use a pipe wrench or crescent wrench to remove the
> nipple.
Interesting idea! Very interesting. I wonder if it will work.
The danger, of course, is that the 50-year-old pipe will just break ...
but it's a great idea to add to the arsenal.
Harold Lathom
> How about just cleaning it up and epoxying a fitting to it to take
> the plastic????
In effect, what I've done, so far, is just that.
Only I used plumbers pipe dope in a can, number 4 IIRC. I just gooped it
on until the leak stopped. But, of course, that's only a temporary fix.
I guess I could just epoxy the whole thing up, and maybe silicone it too.
In fact, I think that's my "last resort" as it should work.
It wouldn't be something to be proud of ... but ... it should work.
Thanks for the idea.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
I would just cut the pipe off with a hacksaw or sawzall and use one of
the rubber sleeves with clamps on each end to make the transition to
plastic
Molly Brown
Are you absolutely sure that pipe is 2” and not 1 ½ “? You do know
that pipe diameters are measure from the inside and not the outside
right?
Harold Lathom
>> Don't they make internal pipe wrenches for that situation?
> that, the threads in the fitting in the wall would tear off on me.
I'm very worried about the 50-year-old T that is in the wall too!
If I break THAT off ... then I'm in really big trouble.
I still don't understand how an "access hole" in the cabinet will give me
any leverage as it has to be as wide as my pipe wrench is long
(right?) ... but I like the idea of an INTERNAL pipe wrench!
Googling, I find the "Superior Tool 5234 3/4" Internal Pipe Wrench Nipple
Extractor" so I can "see" what this weird tool looks like.
http://www.amazon.com/Superior-Tool-05234-Internal-Wrench/dp/B000BQN474
But I ran into two problems:
1. There seem to be internal nipple wrenches and internal pipe wrenches
http://www.plumbingworld.com/nippleextractors.html
What do you guys recommend?
2. It's really hard to find a TWO INCH internal pipe wrench or internal
nipple wrench! (Still googling but figured I'd let you know.)
Harold Lathom
> I'd be tempted to get some 2" hose a couple hose clamps.
You know, I had never thought of that. Since it's a no-pressure drain,
and, since it's under the kitchen sink, maybe the fact I wouldn't be
proud of the looks of it wouldn't matter.
But then do I just clamp the other side of the hose to the typical black
plastic drain fittings?
RicodJour
You wouldn't be using a wrench to take it out, so the access hole is a
lot smaller. My subsequent post explained the approach. You cut a
few relief cuts on the inside of the nipple running the long way,
being vary careful not to cut into the fitting threads, and then use a
chisel to cave in the nipple towards the interior.
Other people brought up a fix using a Fernco type rubber coupling with
the hose clamps, but with 1/2" of pipe exposed it'd only be on the
threads. You could clean up the threads, use some epoxy or silicone
to fill them in, then use the hose clamp, but it's still a kludge
repair. With only 1/2" of thread exposed, it won't be the best
connection. It might leak, it might not.
R
Molly Brown
You will need this tool:
http://www.perfectoproducts.net/index.php?page=right-angle-pipe-wrench
I would recommend making a sleeve for the “plug” using a short piece
of 1 ½” copper pipe to bring it up to 1 ¾” when you insert it in to
your 2” galvanized pipe so that it doesn’t get completely crushed
while you’re removing it.
RicodJour
> On Jan 26, 6:06 pm, Harold Lathom <75537.1...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there an easier way to get the 50-year-old nipple out?
>
> You will need this tool:
>
> http://www.perfectoproducts.net/index.php?page=right-angle-pipe-wrench
Have you ever used one of their tools? It's pretty weird that
apparently all of their tools only exist as computer drawings. I
didn't see a photograph of a single tool - even the simple things. Go
figure.
R
Vic Smith
I'm not familiar with the various clamp-on fittings available, but as
others have said, they're available, and they'll work.
Personality, I'd pull the cabinet and get a wrench on the nipple.
If you do that, and use a steady pressure on your wrench, it should
come out with no damage to the T.
Don't go jerking on it.
But you don't know until you do it.
If the original plumber didn't turn the nipple in far enough, there
may not be many usable threads left in the T.
Maybe the vertical pipes in the T have rusted enough to break.
Then you end up going into the wall, and maybe beyond.
Still, since I'm a glutton for punishment I'd pull the cabinet/sink.
If you go the clamp on route and only have 1/2" sticking out,
you might want to use a deep hole saw a bit wider than the nipple
and cut out the cabinet back around the nipple.
Then you can slide the new fitting beyond the 1/2" showing.
Go a little big with the hole saw size. Easier to fill a gap than
file the entire hole to make it big enough for the fitting.
If it's a rigid fitting the nipple outside and fitting inside could be
doped with epoxy and allowed to set.
That's a "permanent" method.
But I'd use the hole first so I could slide a flexible rubber fitting
well past the threads, then hose clamp at the threads.
If it needed dope I'd use a non-hardening dope.
Makes it easily removable.
Auto radiator hose should work.
But maybe they make plumbing fittings for this kind of deal.
A new close nipple glued or clamped at the other end restores
your original connection, albeit flexible.
--Vic
Harold Lathom
> You wouldn't be using a wrench to take it out, so the access hole is a
> lot smaller.
Ah. I didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification!
Harold Lathom
> I would just cut the pipe off with a hacksaw or sawzall and use one of
> the rubber sleeves with clamps on each end to make the transition to
> plastic
I wouldn't cut the galvanized 2-inch-wide nipple and the 2-inch-wide
plastic pipes that are "supposed" to screw onto the nipple are just sort
of "pushed" on right now (with a LOT of pipe dope sealing it for now!).
It's a temporary fix.
So I'll look around for the right kind of two-inch flexible hose that
might fit over the two-inch nipple so that I can connect the rest of the
plastic pipe to the other end of that two-inch flexible hose.
That's one method anyway.
Harold Lathom
> But I'd use the hole first so I could slide a flexible rubber fitting
> well past the threads, then hose clamp at the threads. If it needed dope
> I'd use a non-hardening dope. Makes it easily removable.
For this idea, cutting a wide berth around the pipe DOES give us some
useful access.
It would give us the width of the cabinet (about 3/4 inch) extra room to
slide the hose and hose clamp on.
I've never heard of this type of "pipe hose" so I'll google as that is
one idea to add to the list of how to fix this leak.
At the moment, it's holding with LOTS of pipe dope (#4 stuff) but I don't
expect that to last long so I will have to do something.
Harold Lathom
> Are you absolutely sure that pipe is 2” and not 1 ½ “? You do know that
> pipe diameters are measure from the inside and not the outside right
Well, I 'was' sure, until you asked. :)
And, I am measuring from the outside to the outside (I had no idea HOW
they measure the stuff as all I want is a part that fits).
I'm not at that location right now so I can't double check; but I did a
rough measurement with my hands and then went to Home Depot and bought 2
inch replacement parts.
What is the 'normal' diameter of 1960's era kitchen sink drain pipe?
Harold Lathom
> You will need this tool:
> http://www.perfectoproducts.net/index.php?page=right-angle-pipe-wrench
Now THAT is the kind of tool idea I was looking for!
Who'd have thought a "right angle pipe wrench" even existed!
The description says:
The Perfecto Right Angle Pipe Wrench is the best tool for the worst jobs.
Set the wrench head on the pipe or stubborn nut and make sure the grip is
tight. Then insert the extension piece into the socket on the wrench
head. Now you are ready to twist away.
And, I like the idea of the "crush proof pipe plug" so that the 50-year-
old threads sticking out aren't crushed inward by the force of the pipe
wrench.
I'm surprised it has enough leverage; but that's what the T handle is
for, I guess.
It's not easy to find prices but they have a store selector so I should
be able to call in the daytime tomorrow to find prices. I might even be
able to rent it somewhere now that I know what to ask for.
This seems like the perfect tool for the job, albeit it may be expensive.
I also found, on that same web site, this "Outside Easy Out":
7000-EO - Perfecto Outside Easy-Out
http://www.perfectoproducts.net/index.php?page=outside-easy-out
The description says:
Perfecto's Outside Easy Out offers another way to remove stubborn pipe
nipples when an ordinary wrench won't fit. Simply tighten the bolts
around the nipple and turn the Easy Out with a Meter Key.
Harold Lathom
> It's pretty weird that their tools only exist as computer drawings.
Interesting. But man, what weird tools they have!
I'm not a tool collector, but, if I were one, I'd be salivating over
these specialized tools!
I'm still looking for prices on the net (maybe will have to call
tomorrow) but the catalog sure has some GREAT looking tools (diagrams
only though - no pictures whatsoever!).
http://www.perfectoproducts.net/uploads/pdfs/
PerfectoBinderCatalog_2010.pdf
Smitty Two
Harold Lathom <75537...@compuserve.com> wrote:
I think it would be easy enough to make your own internal pipe wrench,
if you have any metal fabricating capability. Imagine a circle of metal
the size of the pipe ID, with a 1/2" square hole in the middle, and cut
in half.
(Of course it's not easy to drill a square hole, so you might prefer to
cut it first and then make rectangular notches.)
Put the two pieces into the pipe, and put your 1/2" drive 12" extension
in there, connected to a breaker bar. Apply elbow grease as needed.
Harold Lathom
> This seems like the perfect tool for the job, albeit it may be
> expensive.
Looks like the right angle pipe wrench is about 225 bucks:
http://www.faucetdepot.com/prod/Perfecto-1700-SD-Right-Angle-Pipe-Wrench-%
28Super-Deluxe-Kit%29-20059.asp
Not cheap. But cheaper than a plumber! :)
Harold Lathom
> as computer drawings. I didn't see a photograph of a single tool -
> even the simple things. Go figure.
You know. I find them all over the web now when I search for "right angle
pipe wrench".
All the drawings (so far) are drawings. No pictures. That "is" weird.
http://toolmonger.com/2008/08/05/right-angle-pipe-wrench/
http://www.nextag.com/Perfecto-1700-D-Right-531382836/prices-html
http://www.faucetdepot.com/prod/Perfecto-1700-SD-Right-Angle-Pipe-Wrench-%
28Super-Deluxe-Kit%29-20059.asp
http://home-and-garden.become.com/perfecto-1700sd-right-angle-pipe-wrench-
super-deluxe-kit--compare-prices--sc1154031766
I wonder why there aren't pictures of the thing ... just drawings???
Vic Smith
<prest...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>I think it would be easy enough to make your own internal pipe wrench,
>if you have any metal fabricating capability. Imagine a circle of metal
>the size of the pipe ID, with a 1/2" square hole in the middle, and cut
>in half.
>
>(Of course it's not easy to drill a square hole, so you might prefer to
>cut it first and then make rectangular notches.)
>
>Put the two pieces into the pipe, and put your 1/2" drive 12" extension
>in there, connected to a breaker bar. Apply elbow grease as needed.
Water pipe is pretty soft.
I had a similar broken off nipple at the wall, but it was 1/2" pipe.
I had plenty of old chisels I picked up at flea market.
Quickly tapered one that was bit over 1/2" wide on the grinder,
hammered it into the broken nipple, it bit right in, and I cranked the
chisel shaft to get the nipple out.
The OP might be able to the same with the right size/hardness bar
stock, but with 1 1/2" there's a lot more torque needed.
Unless he's willing to risk going into the wall he should listen to
those here suggesting putting something on the existing nipple.
There are plenty of almost ready made solutions nowadays.
Like others have said, drains aren't subject to much pressure.
They also don't cause a catastrophe when they fail.
My test is filling the sink to the brim, or both if it's a double,
and yanking the plugs. If the fittings are dry after that, it's good.
Don't know about dishwasher effects though.
That's something else to test before you put your tools away.
--Vic
The Daring Dufas
> was a common problem. Those nippled hold lots of crud and stay wet
> all the time. They just corrode away in time. They were sometimes as
> thin as tin foil. A strong twist with a wrench and they will
> collapse. Sometimes that collapse will crunch them where they enter
> the tee and you can chisel away and eventually crush the threads till
> it comes out. But often they break off leaving part of the threads in
> the tee.
>
> In all the years I did this work, I can only recall breaking a tee or
> other fitting twice. They usually hold up pretty well.
>
> I dont recall seeing too many go thru cabinets, usually just plaster.
> But there were a few. I would cut a hole in the cabinet, maybe 4 or 5
> inches all the way around (8 to 10" square). Bust out the plaster
> behind it till you see the tee. Get in there with a chisel and try to
> collapse the pipe along one side (start on top if you can swing a
> hammer easily). If it collapses, you can often crush it (like I said
> above). If it breaks off, chisel out the pieces from the threads, and
> you may have to buy a costly 2" NPT Tap, or rent one. Re-thread the
> tee. Just take your time. It's a pain in the ass job but we always
> managed sooner or later.
>
> Now, here is another idea. Does this pipe go into an exposed basement
> right below? If so, make a hole above the tee in the wall/cabinet.
> Use a sawsall to cut off the vent pipe about 5 inches above the tee.
> Chop, pull, saw, bust, yank out the tee and pipe below it to the
> basement. Replace the whole section of pipe from the basement and the
> tee with PVC. Put a short stub of PVC above the new tee and atttach
> to the vent with a fernco coupling (rubber clamped thing). This way
> you're rid of the whole mess of old cruddy pipe. The vent pipes
> generally dont corrode out as badly and are fine.
>
> You could also cut a hole in the wall above the cabinet and cut your
> vent pipe up there and do the same as I just said.
>
>
Me and my friend had to remove a 4" pipe plug at an old building and it
came apart. We were able to pick the pieces of metal out of the threads
and replace the plug with a threaded PVC plug. That darn drain can be a
lot easier to snake now.
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Dean Hoffman
Don't know.
This is an example of a T Bolt clamp. They clamp pretty tight. It
might be easier to use for your problem.
> http://tinyurl.com/4cu9qr4
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@in#&ebr^as^#ka.com> wrote in message
news:ihqnkq$ig5$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> How about just cleaning it up and epoxying a fitting to
> it to take
> the plastic????
> Chances of removing it without doing further damage inside
> the wall
> are remote, at best.
Molly Brown
I have one in my truck and I can even tell you where you can buy one
if you're in Southern California.
RicodJour
> On Jan 26, 9:00 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 26, 11:41 pm, Molly Brown <recyclebin...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 26, 6:06 pm, Harold Lathom <75537.1...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Is there an easier way to get the 50-year-old nipple out?
>
> > > You will need this tool:
>
> > >http://www.perfectoproducts.net/index.php?page=right-angle-pipe-wrench
>
> > Have you ever used one of their tools? It's pretty weird that
> > apparently all of their tools only exist as computer drawings. I
> > didn't see a photograph of a single tool - even the simple things. Go
> > figure.
>
>
> if you're in Southern California.
Please post a picture. I find it really odd that someone would use a
computer graphic instead of an actual photograph of their product.
That's vaporware territory.
R
Bob F
> I need to remove an old pipe and need ideas as to how to remove it.
>
> The 50-year-old 2-inch diameter threaded galvanized pipe that
> horizontally protrudes about a half inch from the cabinet under the
> kitchen sink is leaking where it meets the 10-year-old plastic pipes
> that drain the kitchen sinks and garbage disposal unit.
>
> The threads are all screwed up so I want to replace the nipple.
>
> I can only see the last 1/2 inch of that threaded nipple but it
> appears to go through the 3/4" thick kitchen cabinet into the wall
> about two inches (or so) and into a T fitting where the vertical up
> pipe goes to a vent on the roof while the vertical down pipe goes to
> the crawlspace drain pipes.
>
> The problem is how best to remove the four-inch long (I assume) nipple
> when only 1/2" of it sticks out of the cabinet attached to the wall.
>
> One option, of course, is to rip out the cabinet, but, that's a LOT of
> work to replace a two-dollar four-inch-ling two-inch-wide nipple!
>
Once you get it out, you will probably find that the threads it screws into are
rusted, with solid rust beyond where it bottoms out. This will make getting a
good seal on a new nipple problematic. So - do you REALLY need to remove this
one?
Bob F
You could wire brush the threads, then screw a PVC fitting onto it, using epoxy
as a pipe dope to ensure a good seal/connection, rather than remove the nipple.
Molly Brown
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mine looks just like this. I almost always use a couple of pipes a
cheater bars with it.
Smitty Two
Molly Brown wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > Please post a picture. �
> Mine looks just like this.
Good lord.
Harold Lathom
> You could wire brush the threads, then screw a PVC fitting onto it,
> using epoxy as a pipe dope to ensure a good seal/connection, rather than
> remove the nipple.
In reality, that's probably the best bet, overall.
It would be hard to remove when we wanted to though.
Harold Lathom
> So - do you REALLY need to remove this one?
I'm leaning toward the epoxy now that you guys have weighed in!
Ed Pawlowski
<zee...@ontheair.com> wrote in message
news:v2l4k6lbsjf8hq0sa...@4ax.com...
>
> I need to remove a 50 year old nipple from my wife's chest. It's a
> 50-year-old 2-inch diameter nipple on her left boob. It sticks out
> horizontally and protrudes about a half inch from the boob. I want
> tit removed. How do I remove?
>
This is a troll. After 50 years, no nipple is horizontal. It is probably
banging into her knee caps.
The Daring Dufas
>
> I need to remove a 50 year old nipple from my wife's chest. It's a
> 50-year-old 2-inch diameter nipple on her left boob. It sticks out
> horizontally and protrudes about a half inch from the boob. I want
> tit removed. How do I remove?
>
Chainsaw.
TDD
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> It would be hard to remove when we wanted to though.
Not really. The epoxy bond to the steel pipe will be very weak. It
will easily break loose as soon as you turn it.
Bob F
Just use a threaded coupling or some other fitting that is easily removable from
the other end.
Worst case, you can always go back to removing the nipple.
Harold Lathom
> The epoxy bond to the steel pipe will be very weak.
> It will easily break loose as soon as you turn it.
Well. I sure hope so. Because It's all epoxied in now!
For better or for worse, what I did was remove all the plastic pipe to
the kitchen sinks and garbage disposal and buy all new plastic pipe.
I then cleaned up the half-inch of corroded thread on the nipple that was
sticking out of the cabinet horizontally with a wire brush.
It was difficult to keep dry but I splashed alcohol and then ether on the
pipe (which was a mistake from the standpoint of fumes - but that's what
I did).
With the corroded nipple as dry as could be, I epoxied it and the plastic
and screwed/pushed the plastic on (it screwed but really I was pushing it
on more than screwing it on).
As extra insurance, I covered the entire outside of the joint with pipe
dope where the plastic met the threads.
So far ... it's sealed.
I will find out when/if I have to remove it how easily it is to break the
bond between 2-part epoxy and plastic and galvanized steel. :)
Thanks for all your wonderful advice!
Ed Pawlowski
"Harold Lathom" <75537...@compuserve.com> wrote
> So far ... it's sealed.
>
> I will find out when/if I have to remove it how easily it is to break the
> bond between 2-part epoxy and plastic and galvanized steel. :)
>
> Thanks for all your wonderful advice!
Glad you have resolution. Much better than taking out the nipple.