PEX PEX PEX
<RJ>
I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
copper pipe installations,
where the main feed might be 3/4",
local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
Oren
I have a Vanguard MANIBLOC manifold. *
It's 12 years old and no problems, so far. Having seen some recent new
installs, it sure saves time and material. Centrally located in a home
- usually in a laundry room.
*
http://www.vanguard.ca/mbloctech.html
For a new build I would have PEX again.
BetaB4
daisy-chain system. I think one reason for the manifold/home-run approach
is that it maintains water better pressre to an individual fixture than a
daisy-chain setup does when another fixture is in use at the same time.
I've been researching PEX for a while now and will be using it soon for the
first time in a remodel that I have going on in a property I own.
Here are a few video links that I thought were helpful:
Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyVrw4gV5k
Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMKVGSFc-Y&NR=1
PEXsupply.com - 6 types of PEX connections (time 8:35):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAzcJpM0k
BetaB4
Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 1 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyVrw4gV5k
Plumbpedia 4 PEX Water Pipe Part 2 (time 6:50):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMKVGSFc-Y&NR=1
PEXsupply.com - 6 types of PEX connections (time 8:35):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAzcJpM0k
JIMMIE
Its my understanding that plastic pipe in general got a bad rep after
the polybutalene fiasco. Even polybutalene isnt that bad if installed
properly. I have it in a 20 year old house and confess I have had two
leaks. Both were the result of poor instalation practice. I replaced
the poly with PEX. After examining the 20 year old pipe and fittings I
found no deteriation of the pipe or fittings. I would of course like
to beat the crap out of the idiot who installed it.
Jimmmie
Big_Jake
It's simple - They sell more PEX this way...
JK
Rudy
>>main feed might be 3/4",
>>local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>>
>>The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold", then individual pipe
>>runs to each faucet.
Our custom built 1998 home in Az had Wirsbo PEX daisychained throughout,
from 1" to 3/4" to half inch.
The only 3/8" were the risers to the faucets. It's done fine for over 10
years.
Our current (2003) place has the manifold system, one for cold, one for hot.
I don't notice any difference.
fftt
RJ-
You got a lot of great info in the other posts...except Big Jake's
comment.
I've done two installs.....both manifold / "home run" style
I prefer this style....way fewer joints; two per run. One at the
manifold, one at the angle stop.
I suppose the ease of installation is a function of the connection
style chosen.
I went with the expander type, I have a hand expander.
A hand expander, though very easy to use on 1/2" tube, and especially
ease to use when in a comfortable position, it is a bit harder to use
in a crawlspace or attic.
The battery expander is rather pricey but it's VERY easy to use
anywhere when equipped with the auto-rotation head adapter.
The manifold style installation:
maximizes the use of single tubing size
uses more tubing but fewer fittings.
has connections in more convenient / easy to execute locations
allows water to be shutoff on a per fixture (hot or cold) basis
maintains point of use water pressure better
depending on the house / plumbing layout a medium sized house with 2
stacked baths, kitchen & laundry requires about 150 ft of hot, 200 ft
of cold.
a medium ranch about the same
if you do the main & branch routine..you;ve got to use varying tube
size and connections / fittings all over the place.
Even if you use 1/2 the tubing by going to a main & branch system
you'll save ~200 ft of tube but use larger & larger fittings...the
tubing saved is going to be about $60.
IMO that worth the extra time & hassle to do main & branch....manifold
is quick & easy; fewer opportunities for mistakes
cheers
Bob
fftt
> if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all.
> Copper is more costly, but it's top of the line and will outlast any
> plastic crap. I'd even go back to galvanized steel before plastic
> garbage plumbing. And while some will tell you that PEX is MUCH
> cheaper, they're full of shit. The PEX pipe itself is cheaper, but
> those manifolds are very costly and all the pex fittings are very
> high, and then you need to spend another hundred bucks for the special
> tools.
>
> And if your wife likes to hang coat hangers on pipes, prepare for a
> disaster the first time she hangs it on pex.
>
> PEX is a frikkin hose, it's NOT plumbing !!!
> If I wanted a damn hose for plumbing, I'd just connect a damn garden
> hose from the meter to the tub and toilet.
Copper is a great material and in most instances very good for
potable water systems.
But for a re-pipe of a classic old home PEX is a better choice, allows
the re-pipe to be done with less damage to the house.
Some water conditions favor PEX over copper.
In some areas copper potable water systems contribute to water
pollution; build up of copper in the environment.
The savings of PEX vs copper is not the material, it's the labor
savings .....way fewer connections & connections that can be made
faster than cutting & cleaning the copper tube.
It's not hose......and your experience with PEX is?
cheers
Bob
willshak
The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
final destination.
Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
the fixture),
Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
the system).
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
gilb
<lett...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:cffu25pl6qbbbgs6v...@4ax.com...
> if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all
I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.
bob haller
> <letter...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nah he is driving his model A:)
He has good points, and I have copper.
But prefer homeruns to everything
Smitty Two
willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) <RJ> wrote the following:
> > I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
> >
> > I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
> > copper pipe installations,
> > where the main feed might be 3/4",
> > local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
> >
> > The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
> > then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
> >
> > Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
> > Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
> >
>
> The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
> rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
> final destination.
> Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
> the fixture),
> Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
> with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
> Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
> Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
> the system).
The home run system could have those advantages, if the installer isn't
a moron. Whoever plumbed the remodel I bought put the manifold in the
attic, about as far away from the water heater as possible.
JIMMIE
> In article <9KWdnaoQ2PtvDLLXnZ2dnUVZ_o-dn...@supernews.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
The MORON factor is always an issue. I found that even polybutylene
holds up well if installed correctly.
I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.
Jimmie
BetaB4
>
> I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
> I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
> PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
> relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
> because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
> bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.
>
I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. I may be doing
something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
etc. I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
system or a clamping system.
I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
existing copper.
Thanks.
BetaB4
> called now) and either a cromping system or a clamping system.
Oops, that should be "crimping" not "cromping".
JIMMIE
Sorry I made it sound like I actually did the plumbing. I didnt
realise that until I reread my own post.I bought a house that was
partially finished and had the work done. This mixed Cu PEX scheme had
already been started before I bought the unfinished house. The only
change I wanted was for the PEX to terminate in copper. I hate floppy
mounted cutoff valves at the toilets and sinks. Im not sure what type
connections were used but they were not crimp on metal. Its the kind
where the tubing is stretched and then slipped over a barbed
connector. Sorry but I dont know the trade names.Plan is to put it on
the market but my wife is talking about moving into it and selling our
current home.. Financially either plan would work out about the same.
Jimmie
Oren
wrote:
Some samples in this PDF file - scroll down to Brass PEX fittings.
http://www.pexconnection.com/PEX%20CONNECTION%20CATALOG%202004.pdf
If you have a local Ferguson plumbing supply, they are a great help.
http://www.ferguson.com/
Also, Youtube has plenty of videos - search PEX (tubing/install/DIY)
fftt
I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor expander system...ProPEX brass
fittings
I got all the stuff I needed from PEXsupply.com
if you have a crawlspace in which to work & a convenient / logical
place for your manifolds (like garage or basement or place near the
water heater)
homerun system makes good sense
At the angle stops I made up some custom copper drop ear / rear mount
elbow with type L bullets ...they provided more secure mounting for
the PEX & the angle stops
you could also use these with copper male adapters sweated to bullets
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Drop-Ear-Elbows-486000
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Expander-Fittings-363000
http://www.pexsupply.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000
PEXsupply.com seems to have the best website & prices online....free
shipping for large orders
cheers
Bob
I could be convinced to part with my hand expander for a while
transition copper to PEX
Oren
wrote:
>I highly recommend the WIrsbo /Uponor expander system...ProPEX brass
>fittings
In some old threads here, there was discussion about faulty brass
connectors. It "may" have been Zurn products. When made they contained
to much Zinc and leaked, causing law suits.
Search PEX and Law Suits. Las Vegas is one example of a retirement
village having serious home damage from faulty brass fittings.
RicodJour
> On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700, "<RJ>" <baran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Copper is more costly, but it's top of the line and will outlast any
> plastic crap. I'd even go back to galvanized steel before plastic
> garbage plumbing. And while some will tell you that PEX is MUCH
> cheaper, they're full of shit. The PEX pipe itself is cheaper, but
> those manifolds are very costly and all the pex fittings are very
> high, and then you need to spend another hundred bucks for the special
> tools.
>
> And if your wife likes to hang coat hangers on pipes, prepare for a
> disaster the first time she hangs it on pex.
>
> PEX is a frikkin hose, it's NOT plumbing !!!
> If I wanted a damn hose for plumbing, I'd just connect a damn garden
> hose from the meter to the tub and toilet.
And here I thought Frontier Gibberish was a dead language! Well done!
R
RicodJour
> On Jun 10, 8:29 am, "gilb" <g...@nada.net> wrote:
> > <letter...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>
> > >>I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>
> > >>I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
> > >>copper pipe installations,
> > >>where the main feed might be 3/4",
> > >>local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>
> > >>The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
> > >>then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>
> > >>Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
> > >>Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
>
> > > Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I would not install PEX in my house
> > > if it was given to me free. Give me REAL plumbing or none at all
>
> > I suppose you need a stable rather than a garage also.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Nah he is driving his model A:)
>
> He has good points, and I have copper.
Umm, help me out here. What are the good points Invalid made?
R
RicodJour
>
> I am just curious..., which brand or type of PEX and fittings did you
> use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. I may be doing
> something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
> that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
> etc. I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
> Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
> system or a clamping system.
>
> I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
> existing copper.
Sharkbite fittings by Cash Acme.
R
fftt
here's my best guess
Copper is more costly
Stormin Mormon
of the Copper Clappers. Anyone else seen that?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
willshak
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> on 6/9/2009 3:17 PM (ET) <RJ> wrote the following:
>>
>>> I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>>>
>>> I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
>>> copper pipe installations,
>>> where the main feed might be 3/4",
>>> local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>>>
>>> The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
>>> then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>>>
>>> Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
>>> Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
>>>
>>>
>> The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
>> rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
>> final destination.
>> Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
>> the fixture),
>> Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
>> with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
>> Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
>> Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
>> the system).
>>
>
> fixtures, the pipes just go past them.
That's what I meant. I do not have any PEX in my house built in 1984,
but if I were to build another house, it would be with PEX. My son-in
law is a contractor/builder and he built his new house with PEX. My
bathrooms on the second floor take a long time for the hot water to get
to them early in the morning. To take a shower, I turn on the shower
and the sink's hot water valves, and wait until the water gets hot
enough, then turn off the sink and adjust the shower water. My half bath
on the main floor is separated from the rest of the house by a concrete
slab, and is the last fixture on the pipe run. The water to that sink
has to go up through the house and then across the second floor past the
bathrooms up there and then down to the half bath. I waste about a
gallon of water through the hot water faucet until the water gets hot.
> Then comes the issue of
> insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
> metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
> not do it, I dont know????
>
Why not? Probably less cutting for the elbow and tees of copper pipe.
> I had to tap into some PEX on a job, just before I retired. I was not
> going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
> would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
> that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
> the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
> (looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
> together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
> and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
> before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
> copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
> had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
> manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.
>
> I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
> but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
> those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
> looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
> connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
> under the trailer skirting.
>
> Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
> find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
> ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed. And
> one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
> just breaking or bursting (except when frozen).
Exactly. Broken copper pipes in the winter is a common problem where I
live, especially with the 'Snowbirds' that migrate to Florida in the winter.
Snowbirds = People who have homes both in the North and South. They live
in the North in the Summer and live in the South in the Winter.
Yes, I know that they should keep their empty houses above freezing in
the winter, but many of the pipes are in outside walls, and when you
have long periods of 0 degree and below temps, the standing water in the
pipes can freeze, notwithstanding the temps in the house. Not to mention
power failures from utility wires breaking from ice loads.
> Metallic pipes leak
> from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
> the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
> sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
> and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
> but there are millions still in use. Pex is very similar. Its just a
> matter of time till they begin bursting.
>
> LM
>
Yep. Everything new is not as good as the old. Right?
I wonder why PEX is allowed when they know it is not as good as copper
pipes.
George
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>>>
>>> I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
>>> copper pipe installations,
>>> where the main feed might be 3/4",
>>> local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>>>
>>> The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
>>> then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>>>
>>> Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
>>> Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
>>>
>> The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
>> rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
>> final destination.
>> Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
>> the fixture),
>> Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
>> with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
>> Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
>> Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
>> the system).
>
> insulating the pipes. You can put insulation on copper or other
> metallic pipe. Can you insulate PEX? I'm not saying you can or can
> not do it, I dont know????
>
> going to buy all the PEX tools because I know I was retiring and never
> would install it in my own house. I used the snap together connectors
> that cost almost $10 for a tee. I was not impressed in the least with
> the stuff. In the basement it leaves a sloppy looking saggy job
> (looks like a hose hung across rafters). I would not trust those snap
> together fittings in my home, but I did what I had to do for that job
> and my boss was pleased, even though I argued with him for an hour
> before using that stuff, since 90% of the plumbing in the house was
> copper and this PEX just was put in when the bathroom was remodeled. I
> had insisted that we use copper for that bathroom. And there was no
> manifold, just pex tapped into a copper line.
>
> I will agree that copper can fail where there is a high acid PH water,
> but that's not a problem in most places. I'd probably use CPVC in
> those instances. I am not fond of that stuff either, but at least it
> looks like pipe. To me, pex is something made for cheap temporary
> connections for trailer homes where the pipes freeze every winter
> under the trailer skirting.
>
> Use what you want. Pex is not for me. In a few years people will
> find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, and I'll laugh my
> ass off while my copper is as good as the day it was installed.
I think you might have a long wait. Cross linked polyethylene is robust
stuff and has been in use now for 50 years without what you are
imagining happening.
And
> one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
> just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). Metallic pipes leak
bob haller
> letter...@invalid.com wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
pex tends to expand when frozen and not leak later. thats a definite
positive.
it can be insulated but its kinda self insulating sionce its plastic
and doesnt conduct heat and cold nearly as well as metal
BetaB4
research on this recently, including trying to find plumbing supply places
in my area who stock and sell Wirsbo/Uponor PEX products. Strangely, no
plumbing supply places in my area stock and sell it (I am in Southern New
Jersey, Camden County). One plumbing supply place nearby can get it in one
day from their Washington warehouse.
I know I can buy the products from http://www.pexsupply.com , but I wanted
to be sure I can also get them at a supplier nearby so that if I am in the
middle of the job and I need something I don't have to order it online and
wait for it to be shipped to me.
Rudy
>I used to have a video clip of Johny Carson, and the Caper
> of the Copper Clappers. Anyone else seen that?
Yes, I have it...Johnny Carson: the "new" guys are a sad substitute
Rudy
<lett...@invalid.com> wrote:
1. > Pex is very similar. Its just a matter of time till they begin
bursting.
2. > The earth is FLAT
fftt
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>
> >> I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
> >> copper pipe installations,
> >> where the main feed might be 3/4",
> >> local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>
> >> The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
> >> then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>
> >> Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
> >> Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
>
> >The home run system allows hot water to get to the fixture directly,
> >rather than having it go though other fixtures before it gets to the
> >final destination.
> >Saves time (you don't have to wait as long for the hot water to get to
> >the fixture),
> >Saves hot water (other parts of the piping system don't have to fill
> >with hot water before you get it at the fixture),
> >Saves gas or electric water heating (less hot water taken from the heater),
> >Saves electricity on a well pump system ( less water being pumped from
> >the system).
>
> one final thought. I have never heard of a copper, or galv steel pipe
> just breaking or bursting (except when frozen). Metallic pipes leak
> from a pin-hole sized leak, which gets larger after awhile. By then
> the owner knows of the problem. But those plastic supply tubes under
> sinks/toilets can and do just burst. I saw this happen to a neighbor,
> and did thousands of dollars damage. Those supply pipes were banned,
> matter of time till they begin bursting.
>
LM-
>>>>>Use what you want. Pex is not for me. <<<<<<
that's fair, your opinion, your right
>>>>In a few years people will find it cracking and bursting as it deteriorates, <<<<<<
and you are basing this prediction on? you vast technical
knowledge? or personal experiience? your crystal ball?
PEX has been in use all over the US for YEARS......where are the
failure stories
>>>>>plastic supply tubes under
sinks/toilets can and do just burst. <<< yes they do
>>>>> I saw this happen to a neighbor, and did thousands of dollars damage. <<<<<< me too
>>>>Those supply pipes were banned,<<<<<< if true, good action
>>>>but there are millions still in use. <<<< only because people are ill-informed,
>>>Pex is very similar.<<<< Wrong, different material
>>> Its just a matter of time till they begin bursting. <<<<< another opinion without basis?
sorry to be so harsh but most of your statements are without basis
cheers
Bob
fftt
> Thanks. I think that what I am going to end up using. I did a ton of
> research on this recently, including trying to find plumbing supply places
> in my area who stock and sell Wirsbo/Uponor PEX products. Strangely, no
> plumbing supply places in my area stock and sell it (I am in Southern New
> Jersey, Camden County). One plumbing supply place nearby can get it in one
> day from their Washington warehouse.
>
If you do the home run system with a manifold (I recommend at least
one spare valve) and work out the details at the angle
stops.......you'll have a very good idea of the parts you need. Buy
a few spares & you'll be fine.
cheers
Bob
JIMMIE
> on 6/11/2009 3:11 AM (ET) letter...@invalid.com wrote the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:58:59 -0400, willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I doubt if the plastic that burst on your neighbor was PEX, most
likely polybutylene, big difference from PEX. Ive seen copper rot out
in 25 years due to the water chemistry. I like Cu where I think a
rigid pipe is called for or where its going to be seen, appearances
counts for something. I suspect the connections in a PEX system will
fail long before the pipe does.
Jimmie
gwandsh
> I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>
> I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
> copper pipe installations,
> where the main feed might be 3/4",
> local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>
> The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
> then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>
> Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
> Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
I opted for Wiersbo (sp?) PEX at a remote cabin in WA state. The
winter temps are very cold are we are absent for extended periods of
time.
I had the advantages of a one level cabin with free access to an
unfinished "basement" beneath. Made the install and routing simple.
The basement can, however, freeze up even when the cabin is occupied,
which made the PEX decision easy.
I used the daisy chain method, 3/4" to 1/2" to local faucet
connections. I also used the crimp-style connecting collars, which
require a proprietary tool. I found it to be a reasonable investment
($125 if I recall). I have loaned it to several friends doing their
own installations, and garnered a few favors in return - a win/win
situation!
For a homeowner job, it was pretty good. I had to replace two
connections due to user error until I got the tricks down. All other
connections were solid, and after many freeze/thaw cycles (drained
lines) no issues have arisen.
To address the OP's question directly. I suspect that a more complex
installation might merit a manifold approach, while installation as
described would suffice for simpler jobs.
gwandsh
> On Jun 10, 11:42 am, "BetaB4" <Bet...@ferbnm.jfs> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I just finished a home that someone else started and had to back out.
> > > I did the basement in copper and transistioned to PEX from there. The
> > > PEX leaves the basement from 3 places making the runs of PEX
> > > relatively short. I transistioned back to Cu at the terminal point
> > > because I dont like floppy cutoff valves. I had also come by a lot of
> > > bits pieces of Cu I wante to use up.
>
> > use? -- especially for the transitions to and from copper. I may be doing
> > something similar soon where I will be running new PEX lines in a basement
> > that will then connect to existing copper lines that go up to the fixtures
> > etc. I'm considering either the Uponor/Wirsbo expansion PEX fittings or
> > Viega brand (I think that's what it is called now) and either a cromping
> > system or a clamping system.
>
> > I am also trying to figure out what to use to connect the PEX to the
> > existing copper.
>
>
> Sorry I made it sound like I actually did the plumbing. I didnt
> realise that until I reread my own post.I bought a house that was
> partially finished and had the work done. This mixed Cu PEX scheme had
> already been started before I bought the unfinished house. The only
> change I wanted was for the PEX to terminate in copper. I hate floppy
> mounted cutoff valves at the toilets and sinks. Im not sure what type
> connections were used but they were not crimp on metal. Its the kind
> where the tubing is stretched and then slipped over a barbed
> connector. Sorry but I dont know the trade names.Plan is to put it on
> the market but my wife is talking about moving into it and selling our
> current home.. Financially either plan would work out about the same.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Interesting point. In my simple installation, I used the Wirsbo
supplied connectors to transition from PEX to copper for some existing
plumbing I had behind my shower wall.
As for floppy cut-off valves, all mine were wall or stud mounted,
probably more solid than my door frames ;-). Then again, I had the
advantage of being able to do most of this work in an unfinished area.
The crimping style tool was suggested to me over the expander tool as
being more user friendly for a newbie. The fact that a badly crimped
collar can be easily removed with no damage to the pipe or connector
was important. For connections to valves, etc, I added a second
collar (loose) on the Pex piping, so if the original had a problem I
could snip it and slide the other down the pipe to replace it. This
came in handy twice for connections that were poor due to my
inexperience.
gwandsh
> On Jun 9, 3:17 pm, "<RJ>" <baran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm just edging into the world of PEX water pipe.
>
> > I'm accustomed to the daisy-chain
> > copper pipe installations,
> > where the main feed might be 3/4",
> > local runs 1/2" and sink connections 3/8".
>
> > The PEX installations I see all have a "manifold",
> > then individual pipe runs to each faucet.
>
> > Is there a reeason for this ? Can't be more efficient.
> > Or is it just "chancy" to daisy-chain PEX ??
>
> the polybutalene fiasco. Even polybutalene isnt that bad if installed
> properly. I have it in a 20 year old house and confess I have had two
> leaks. Both were the result of poor instalation practice. I replaced
> the poly with PEX. After examining the 20 year old pipe and fittings I
> found no deteriation of the pipe or fittings. I would of course like
> to beat the crap out of the idiot who installed it.
>
> Jimmmie
Isn't Pex a "cross linked polyethylene"?
willshak
dgk
wrote:
The earth is NOT flat. At least, not in my backyard. And, I've tried
to make it so.
willshak
No. The pipes and fittings that failed were not PEX or other
non-metallic materials. My experience with those bursting were way
before PEX was commonly used in home plumbing. As I guestimate the dates
from my life's timeline, it was some period in the 1970s when there was
an extended period where the temps were in the teens (F) or below. And
it wasn't my neighbor. It happened in dozens of homes of strangers in
the area where I used to work, and for which, I had first hand knowledge
by being one of the first on scene.