Is there a better way (than this) to clean this pleated pool filter?

[Arklin K.]

There must be a better way to wash a pool cartridge filter!

Here's a picture of the cartridge taken apart.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328446/640/8328446.jpg

I presume the water flow is up the two holes into the INSIDE of the two
pleated filter cartridges ... but WHAT is that thing sticking up in the
middle doing?

Here is a picture of me trying to wash the larger pleated filter with a
garden hose:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328448/640/8328448.jpg

And here I am doing the same to the smaller cloth filter:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328451/640/8328451.jpg

Unfortunately, even after two hours of that, the green slimy sticky gunk
is still on hundreds of the thousands of pleats:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328449/640/8328449.jpg

I tried brushing them off:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328452/640/8328452.jpg

But I concluded I must be doing something wrong.

Q: What is the best way to clean a pleated pool filter?

PS: I'm doing it right now ... so any and all advice is welcome!

[so]

You have the same filter I have.

You're doing it right. Work from top to bottom and spray between the
pleats as much as you can. You're not going to get everything off.
However, maybe yours is super dirty because mine doesn't look as bad
as yours. Your large round filter looks like it might be separated at
the top--maybe time for a new one? The little filter with the tube
sucks water from the top of the filter caniser.

[Oren]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 19:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
<ark...@notmyemail.com> wrote:

>Q: What is the best way to clean a pleated pool filter?
>

Water.

>PS: I'm doing it right now ... so any and all advice is welcome!

Tell us more after you are done.

[Steve B]

"Arklin K." <ark...@notmyemail.com> wrote in message
news:jpm1ng$ko8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

At 75 psi from a washer, you are destroying the filter. I would soak it
first, if you are having this tenacious of an encrustation. It SHOULD come
off easier than that. My spa filters have crown tops on them, so I just
made a rod in a piece of 2 x 6 that I sit them on, and the round crown sits
on top the rod. I then spray it with the sprayer, and it spins. The
spinning action helps throw stuff off, and helps by not letting it get full
pressure from the spray. It works pretty good for me.

I'd try making a spinner. Maybe a rod and a flat piece of sheet metal on
the bottom. Soaking will help soften things, too. It shouldn't be coming
off so hard. Maybe you need to clean them more often.

Any brushing on what is essentially wet paper is not a good idea. You want
gravity or centrifugal force to help you out. And chemical softening
wouldn't hurt, either.

MHO, I have DE filters just for such reasons.

Steve

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 12:54:18 -0700, so wrote:
> Work from top to bottom and spray between the
> pleats as much as you can. You're not going to get everything off.

The interesting thing is that the hose DOES seem to get all the green
pasty goop off once I hose it down. The problem is that the pleats are so
tightly packed that the hose can't get to the inside of the pleats until/
unless I manually open them up.

If there was a better mechanical way to OPEN the cleats to expose them to
the hose, they'd certainly clean off nicely.

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 15:58:31 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> I use a pressure cleaner.
> The thing going up the middle is the vent

I did use a pressure washer. Even very carefully, it shreds the cloth a
bit, especially the bands around the smaller filter.

The gas-powered pressure washer seems to have the same problem as the
garden hose though - which is that it needs access to the inside of the
pleat which is jam packed with the next pleat.

So, I think, unless there's a 'magic soak', my main problem is how to
open up the pleats mechanically, given there must be thousands of them (I
don't know how many there are but they're on both sides of both filters).

I wonder why it needs a second vent, especially since there is not
'supposed' to be air in the container according to the manual which says
to open the top vent (which is in the cap and is separate) until water
shoots out.

[JIMMIE]

Dont have a pool but do have a spa that uses similar filters, probably smaller. I had green gunk on mine after leaving it shut down for a long time. Gave up trying to clean and bought a new filter. You might could clean it by soaking it in a tub with some bleach or stronger than usual chlorine solution to kill the goo. Dont really know this would work. Someone told me to do it when I had my problem. I made a tank a little larger and longer than my filter out of PVC pipe. I fill it with water and push the filter down into it . This forces water through the filter back against normal flow backwashig it. Found the large PVC pipe for free. Fittings are EXPENSIVE.

Jimmie

[Jim Elbrecht]

"Arklin K." <ark...@notmyemail.com> wrote:

>There must be a better way to wash a pool cartridge filter!
>
>Here's a picture of the cartridge taken apart.
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328446/640/8328446.jpg
>
>I presume the water flow is up the two holes into the INSIDE of the two
>pleated filter cartridges ... but WHAT is that thing sticking up in the
>middle doing?
>
>Here is a picture of me trying to wash the larger pleated filter with a
>garden hose:
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328448/640/8328448.jpg

First - own 2 filters. Swap them out and soak overnight.
http://www.poolandspa.com/catalog/product000556000003.cfm
[if that doesn't work for you, I like their Leisure Time filter
cleaner-- and I've always gotten good service from poolandspa.com]

I've forgotten [hot tub] filters in their soak for a week or so with
no ill effects.

They sell a wand that is supposed to clean pleated filters better, but
I do mine in a deep sink with a regular hose and warm water. Then
they get dry before their next use. I've been rotating 3
filters for 4 years in my year-round hot tub.

-snip-

>
>Unfortunately, even after two hours of that, the green slimy sticky gunk
>is still on hundreds of the thousands of pleats:
> http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328449/640/8328449.jpg

Keep an eye open for a sand filter at a garage sale.

Jim

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 13:01:20 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Tell us more after you are done.

I'm learning. I'm trying to do it today, but I'm learning.

The pool store suggested a spray called "Filter Blaster" but I can't see
how any spray will get inside the pleats if a high pressure hose won't.

The pool store said that the water doesn't get rid of calcium and oil -
but I don't think calcium and oil are my problem right now (almost nobody
swims in this pool so there's no oil to speak of). Maybe once person
swims for ten minutes a week or so and that's it. The darn thing came
with the house. It's like having a pet you don't want! :)

Anyway ... another pool store said they make a finger spreader - which is
kind of what I think I need.

The theory would be I'd brush the fingers along the folds while spraying
the hose at the same time. I guess...

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 13:09:03 -0700, Steve B wrote:

> At 75 psi from a washer, you are destroying the filter.

The filter is a little ragged. It seems to be best to aim at an oblique
angle, so as to just blow off the green slime.

> I would soak it first, if you are having this tenacious
> of an encrustation.

I guess I should have explained better. The green stuff comes off rather
easily. It's just that there are something like a thousand (or more)
folds.

So the problem appears to be mechanical or solvent.

Mechanical: How to get INSIDE each of a thousand folds!

Solvent: How to dissolve the stuff without having to get inside each of a
thousand folds.

> I'd try making a spinner.

That might work. The problem though is that the folds are densely packed
so the problem is spreading the folds, somehow.

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 13:29:47 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:

> Gave up trying to clean and bought a new filter.

I did consider replacing the filters (or buying a second set):

Sta-Rite System 3 Model 1C01H 50sqft fil...@0.28gpm/sqft
259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S = $300
191 sqft cartridge 25021-0202S = $200

So it would cost me $500 to have a second one sitting while the first
soaked.

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:34:46 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> They sell a wand that is supposed to clean pleated filters better, but I
> do mine in a deep sink with a regular hose and warm water. Then they
> get dry before their next use. I've been rotating 3 filters for
> 4 years in my year-round hot tub.

> Keep an eye open for a sand filter at a garage sale.

Funny you should mention that.

This is a self-cleaning pool but it uses electricity like it was free in
order to run the second pump and a dozen or more pop-up in-floor sprayers
to channel all the crud to the deep end (which is really deep so that the
crud can't get back out).

So I was thinking of hooking up a vacuum pump to the capped-off pipe at
the center of the pool put in for that reason. I'd need the entire pump
because all I have is a pipe that goes to the middle of the pool - but if
I could find one for cheap, I could then filter the water from a moving
vacuum instead of having to run the cleaner system which spends all day
pushing the debris to the deep end of the pool.

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 16:34:46 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> Keep an eye open for a sand filter at a garage sale.

I wonder if it would work to just fill my 'bubble' with sand?
http://www.poolcenter.com/parts_filter_starite_system3_cartr.htm

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 12:54:18 -0700, so wrote:

> The little filter with the tube sucks

I just found a picture of the setup:
http://www.poolcenter.com/parts_filter_starite_system3_cartr.htm

It lists that little tube as part #8 & #9 as listed below:
#8 WC8-126Z ZPEN0376 Sta-Rite Filter Air Bleed $9.89
#9 25021-0003 ZPEN0105 Air Bleed Tube $6.47

[Jim Elbrecht]

Not likely-- When you get the sand filter you'll see how differently
it distributes the incoming water--- and has the multi -purpose valve
on top to backflush or bypass it.

Jim

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 21:11:01 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:

> I just found a picture of the setup:
> http://www.poolcenter.com/parts_filter_starite_system3_cartr.htm

Comparing specs, my "Sta-Rite System 3 Model 1C01H" looks a lot like the
S8M150 in that manual which is the same 450 sqft of filter at 125 gpm at
50 psi water.

Here's the manual for the S8M150:
http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/System3SMOM.pdf

It shows a cleaning procedure on page 6, which basically boils down to
"hose it down".

Sigh ...

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 17:20:57 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> You use the wide spray nozzle and don't get too close.

I just ordered one of these - but of course - it won't arrive in time:
http://tinyurl.com/bu7ffnh
http://store.pinchapenny.com/product/Pool-Suppies-Miscellaneous-Pool-
Systems-Water-Wand-Cartridge-Cleaner-75320093


> The interior vent allow air that gets in from other sources to get out.
> In a perfect world you wouldn't ever get air in the system but it
> happens (hooking up the vacuum etc).

Ah, I see. I guess it lets air go to the top instead of collecting in the
bottom (I guess).

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 17:24:12 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> You should be able to get those filters a lot cheaper than that.

They're over $800 at Leslies so I figured that was the best price I could
get.

BTW, they're 450 square feet (total) of filter. Is that a lot or a little
or just about normal?

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 17:23:49 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> has the multi -purpose valve on top to backflush or bypass it.

I 'wish' I could backflush!

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 13:01:20 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Water.

I found this based on the advice so far:
http://www.amerimerc.com/pool_supply/filter_cartridges/
water_wand_cartridge_cleaner.asp

Here's a picture of the thing in action:
http://www.amerimerc.com/pool_supply/filter_cartridges/images/small/
water-wand_large.jpg

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

I think you should be spraying from the inside facing out, not on the
outside facing inward. Also, some detergent mixed in with the water
might loosen things up a little easier. Or, soak it overnight in a
mixture of water, bleach, and detergent and then flush it. Sounds
like it got too bad before you started worrying about it.

[tra...@optonline.net]

Anyone else think it's funny that this inground pool that has 20
Jandy valves, a spa, a fancy built-in self cleaning system
and a plumbing system that looks like a kludge is using a
cartridge filter? Man, whoever built this was special....
I would have spend less money on valves and bought a
DE filter.

[Oren]

I hear the pain. My old filter system was a Sta-Rite. It was around
13 years old. For about $550, the cost of a new Hayward filter unit,
I doubled the filter capacity. It fit in the same foot print.

Either a cartridge or a DE ( DE is ~ $700 ? ) brand new.

[Oren]

I don't think it's funny. I do think this unit is in California.

...
as a teen I worked in pool construction for awhile. Never saw such a
mess. That work is HARD work, trust me. Partly how I developed an
allergy to work....

[Arklin K.]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 19:05:14 -0700, hr(bob) hof...@att.net wrote:

> Sounds like it got too bad before you started worrying about it.

I think that's the 'real' problem!

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 09:52:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Either a cartridge or a DE ( DE is ~ $700 ? ) brand new.

Next time it's going to be something like that, whichever is most
efficient overall.

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 06:34:27 -0700, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> Anyone else think it's funny that this inground pool that has 20 Jandy
> valves, a spa, a fancy built-in self cleaning system and a plumbing
> system that looks like a kludge is using a cartridge filter? Man,
> whoever built this was special....
> I would have spend less money on valves and bought a DE filter.

I saw Oren's response and he is right - this pool is in the Silicon
Valley.

But I don't understand the difference between WHEN you'd put in a
cartridge versus some other type of filter.

Is the cartridge generally for a smaller pool?

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 10:49:10 -0700, Oren wrote:
> I don't think it's funny. I do think this unit is in California.

UPDATE:

I ordered the 8-fingered wand but of course it will never arrive in time.
So I spent another hour cleaning the filters with the garden hose,
spreading the pleats one by one by hand. I started counting, but at about
200 or so I lost count and just gave up.

My reasoning was that the algae was gonna start again so I'd better get
the filtration going - so I put both filters back in and started it up.

Of course, there's ANOTHER problem (see separate thread) ... but I do
very much appreciate all the help because you guys, collectively, are
like having a great team of professionals helping all of us!

Thanks!

[Oren]

On Thu, 24 May 2012 21:27:56 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
<ark...@notmyemail.com> wrote:

>> The interior vent allow air that gets in from other sources to get out.
>> In a perfect world you wouldn't ever get air in the system but it
>> happens (hooking up the vacuum etc).
>
>Ah, I see. I guess it lets air go to the top instead of collecting in the
>bottom (I guess).

Close... The screen on the tube stops material from the tank that
will clog the vent. Pressure release...

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 11:49:48 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Close... The screen on the tube stops material from the tank that will
> clog the vent. Pressure release...

BTW, I didn't snap a picture of it but that vent was totally clogged with
gunk when I first opened the tank up.

I'm not sure, based on that, which DIRECTION the air goes because the
gunk on the OUTSIDE of the screen implies the flow is from the top of the
tank to the bottom.

But, if it was an air vent, the flow would (I would guess) be from the
bottom to the top.

So, unfortunately, I'm still confused about what it is that goes into
that little tube. Sorry for being dense.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 25, 2:05 pm, "Arklin K." <ark...@notmyemail.com> wrote:

Yes. SPAS and smaller pools. Depends on the
environment too. A small pool with little debris,
low load, etc is best suited. If it gets to be a pain
because you have to clean/replace the filters too
often you could switch to a DE filter. But that would
require having room for it and being able to
plumb it into that mess. It would probably make
sense to consider only if you're going to redo that
plumbing nightmare.

[Arklin K.]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 12:19:25 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> The air will tend to collect in the top of the tank, the vent allows it
> to escape and go on out to the pool.

Oh. Hmmm... I guess the air that collects at the top of the tank gets
sucked from the filter screen at top, down into the thin pipe, into the
bottom of the filter, where it then flows back out to the pool.

Interesting setup! Thanks for explaining it!

[Arklin K.]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 06:10:20 -0700, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> It would probably make sense to consider only if you're going to redo
> that plumbing nightmare.

Thanks for the advice. I think I have plenty of room. I'm not sure 'why'
they packed it all so tightly as they had plenty of room to spread things
out.

For example, they put all the pipes coming and going in a single line.
I would have staggered these pipes because the way they are, they had to
add elbows all over the place to get around each other.

I was able to eliminate one elbow in my recent repair, but, notice I
still had to add two wasted elbows on the new white PVC pipe which I
wouldn't have had to add if the pipes were simply staggered six inches
coming out of the ground:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8313072/640/8313072.jpg

A simple double line would have saved a dozen elbows (each of which
restricts flow).

Does anyone have pictures of 'their' pool setup by way of comparison?

[Bob F]

Arklin K. wrote:
> There must be a better way to wash a pool cartridge filter!
>
> Here's a picture of the cartridge taken apart.
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328446/640/8328446.jpg
>
> I presume the water flow is up the two holes into the INSIDE of the
> two pleated filter cartridges ... but WHAT is that thing sticking up
> in the middle doing?
>
> Here is a picture of me trying to wash the larger pleated filter with
> a garden hose:
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328448/640/8328448.jpg
>
> And here I am doing the same to the smaller cloth filter:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328451/640/8328451.jpg
>
> Unfortunately, even after two hours of that, the green slimy sticky
> gunk is still on hundreds of the thousands of pleats:
> http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328449/640/8328449.jpg
>
> I tried brushing them off:
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8328452/640/8328452.jpg
>
> But I concluded I must be doing something wrong.
>
> Q: What is the best way to clean a pleated pool filter?
>
> PS: I'm doing it right now ... so any and all advice is welcome!

I start with a quick hosing, and a long soak in warm TSP solution.

[Arklin K.]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:54:06 -0700, Bob F wrote:

> I start with a quick hosing, and a long soak in warm TSP solution.

Next time, I think what I'll do is use the tri-sodium phosphate (or dish
detergent) and soak the filters while they're still inside the bubble.

That would soak the bottom half.

Then, I think, I can flip them and soak the other half.

Then I can wash them in or out of the bubble.

Lesson learned for next time!

Today I'll be fixing the myriad leaks in the lousy Fafco solar panels!

[Bob F]

I use a 5 (or more) gallon plastic bucket. Some pool chemicals come in larger
sizes which might immerse the whole filter. Your pool supply place might give
you an empty.

[Bob F]

Arklin K. wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 06:10:20 -0700, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
>
>> It would probably make sense to consider only if you're going to redo
>> that plumbing nightmare.
>
> Thanks for the advice. I think I have plenty of room. I'm not sure
> 'why' they packed it all so tightly as they had plenty of room to
> spread things out.
>
> For example, they put all the pipes coming and going in a single line.
> I would have staggered these pipes because the way they are, they had
> to add elbows all over the place to get around each other.
>
> I was able to eliminate one elbow in my recent repair, but, notice I
> still had to add two wasted elbows on the new white PVC pipe which I
> wouldn't have had to add if the pipes were simply staggered six inches
> coming out of the ground:
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8313072/640/8313072.jpg
>

You could have used 2 45's for less resistance. Not that it would make a big
difference.

[Arklin K.]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 13:05:07 -0700, Bob F wrote:

> You could have used 2 45's for less resistance. Not that it would make a
> big difference.

Actually I did try the 45s but I couldn't get the angles right so I went
with the elbows. Sigh.

[Arklin K.]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 11:54:55 -0700, Bob F wrote:

> I use a 5 (or more) gallon plastic bucket. Some pool chemicals come in
> larger sizes which might immerse the whole filter. Your pool supply
> place might give you an empty.

The larger filter diameter is pretty big.

Let me google for the diameter given the part numbers:
Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150,
259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S
191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S
Total = 450 sqft fil...@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max.

OK. It looks like it's 18 inches in diameter and 20 inches long:
http://www.amazon.com/Sta-Rite-25022-0203S-25021-0202S-Swimming-Filters/
dp/B004CTVXFQ

Large Filter (25022-0203): 259 Sq.Ft , Diameter: 18.25", Length: 20-1/8"
Small Filter (25021-0202S): 259 Sq.Ft , Diameter: 25.5", Length: 12.5"

That's a big bucket! :)

[SMS]

I have a Pentair quad filter. I put the four filters onto the jig I
built <http://i26.tinypic.com/117cm80.jpg> and use a hose. No pressure
washer since the paper is not that strong, I just use a hose nozzle set
to the strongest setting.

I try to not let my filters get green, but you're right, it's tough to
get everything out without manually spreading the pleats. But you can
get it good enough for government work. It takes me about ten minutes
per filter.

Unless the filters get clogged with algae or with the stuff that results
from the phosphate treatment, my filter pressure is right around 0 PSI
on the gauge.

At one time I had a round trash can large enough to soak one filter at a
time in filter cleaning solution, whatever that really is.

I know that on my pool cleaner's cloth bag they say to wash it in the
washing machine using Oxyclean, so I might try Oxyclean on my filters
someday.

[Arklin K.]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 22:59:05 -0700, SMS wrote:

> my filter pressure is right around 0 PSI on the gauge.

Wow. Mine is 20 psi at the start!

> At one time I had a round trash can large enough to soak one filter at a
> time in filter cleaning solution, whatever that really is.

I think they use tri sodium phosphate - whatever that is.
Googling, some said dish detergent works too.

[Bob F]

That's a huge filter.
Plastic "tote" or garbage can? Half a plastic barrel? Laundry tub? Bath tub -
one end, then the other? A hole in the ground lined with plastic?

[SMS]

On 5/27/2012 10:59 PM, SMS wrote:

> I know that on my pool cleaner's cloth bag they say to wash it in the
> washing machine using Oxyclean, so I might try Oxyclean on my filters
> someday.

BTW, there are two things you can do to keep the filter cartridges
cleaner, longer.

1. Use a "skimmer sock" on the skimmer basket. Leslie's sell these. You
can also use 1 gallon paint strainers, which cost less. It's a lot
easier to rinse out the "sock" than taking the filter housing apart.
Just remember to clean it frequently (every few days or so) because it
catches a lot of stuff and can clog up, reducing the flow.
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FKEFV0> or
<http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Filters-and-Filter-Supplies/Parts-and-Accessories/20732.html>

2. Use a robotic pool cleaner, not a suction side or pressure side
cleaner. These are essentially another filter, the cloth bag captures a
lot of dirt and debris that doesn't end up in the filter. It's
magnitudes better than something like a Polaris, which is essentially a
leaf vac, that passes the dirt back into the pool, supposedly to be sent
to the filter, via the drain and skimmer. My nephew finally followed my
advice and got a Dolphin to replace his Polaris, and his pool is much
cleaner now.