Wireless Doorbell

[Robert Green]

My neighbor asked me to look at her wireless doorbell, which suddenly
stopped working properly. The buttons still work if you move them close to
the unit but they no longer work mounted on the outside of the door frame.
We've replaced the 3 "D" cells in the base unit and the 12V cells in the two
buttons but still no joy.

Any ideas?

--
Bobby G.

[bob haller]

are you certain the new batteries are really good?

[Reed]

Has she or a neighbor added some other new wireless device that is
interfering with the doorbell ?? Does the bell have any capability of
using a different channel ??

[Robert Green]

"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d86fa5d4-3da8-4d34...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

Checked them all out with a voltmeter, first thing.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"Reed" <re...@rmi.net> wrote in message
news:CqmdnTxHhPeDRrzS...@giganews.com...

Good tip. I do believe she's had a wifi hotspot installed. I'll have to
see if that's the cause of the problem. It would explain the recent sudden
onset.

--
Bobby G.

[Joe]

Blame the current sunspot storms. Or a neighbor's giant radio
transmitting rig. Or an overpowered badly designed computer
peripheral.
If the doorbell is important, simply get a dead reliable hard wired
unit installed. End of problem.

Joe

[IGot2P]

12V cells?

[Robert Green]

"IGot2P" <IGo...@crsales.com> wrote in message
news:jfsss7$g04$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

http://www.atbatt.com/a23-batteries.asp

A23 or 23A (23AE) 12 volt Alkaline batteries are 1.08 inches length and .38
inches width in cylinder. These 23A 12v batteries are typically used in
small RF devices such as garage door openers and keyless entry systems where
only infrequent pulse current is used. Sometimes the A23 batteries are
enclosed like a normal battery but sometimes a stack of eight LR932 button
cells shrink wrapped together.

--
Bobby G.

[Sjouke Burry]

"Robert Green" <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote in
news:jfsfc7$jo8$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

Any Wifi wireless ethernet around?
Or a wireless camera somewhere?
Look in those kind of culprits.
A lot of them are on the same or closeby frequency.

[WW]

"Robert Green" <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:jft0v7$oha$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>Bobby.........Check the batteries under load while in the items. Volt meter
>won't "load" a battery enough for proper reading. I have had 1.5 volt cells
>check as 1.4 volts no load and same battery check as 1 volt under load. I
>built a load tester for this because I have so many devices that are
>battery powered. WW

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

On Jan 26, 5:50 pm, "Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote:
> "bob haller" <hall...@aol.com> wrote in message

Did you just check the open-circuit voltage, or did you test them
under load. I usually put a100 ohm resistor across the battery
terminals when I test them, that puts a 10 - 30 ma load on the 1 - 3 V
battery which usually is enough to show either good or weak.

[bob haller]

>
> <are you certain the new batteries are really good?>
>
> Checked them all out with a voltmeter, first thing.
>
> --
> Bobby G.

under load or open circuit voltage?

bad batteries connected to a digital voltmeter may test fine but still
be bad

[micky]

Buying one is simple but installing one might not be.

>Joe

[r.mar...@fdcx.net]

How about replacing the button cell battery in the button unit(s).
When the voltage drops so does the signal strength and thus the range.

[micky]

I have a wireless doorbell where the ringer plugs into the wall.
Cost about 2.50. Worked for my mother for about 10 years and me for
about 3 and one day the ringer part "burned up". No visible damage
inside, but wouldn't work wth duplicate button. I don't know if a
ringer tha runs on batteries can do that.

[micky]

Note to self: Read the origiinal post to the end.

(I have that problem too.)

[Molly Brown]

If the battery of the button (transmitter) is removed or loses contact
the bell (receiver) may have to be re-programmed. I don’t know about
your doorbell but I know the brand IQ America does.

[Robert Green]

"hr(bob) hof...@att.net" <hrho...@att.net> wrote in message
news:871d6d93-35ed-4b07...@i18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

No, they weren't load tested but both the 1.5V D-cells and the 12V akaline
cells tested above nominal (1.6V for the D cell, about 13V for the small
transmitter battery. The units work fine close up, just not at the "old"
distance between the front door button and the wall unit.

Moving the button off the brick/concrete wall near the door and onto the
wooden door itself activates the unit. I'm guessing it's RFI or the unit's
drifted out of tune.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:3328e527-2bdc-4de6...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

I've not seen that with alkalines. Lead acid and NiMH cells are far more
likely to read good and be bad. Since they were new and tested higher than
nominal, I very much doubt that it's a dead battery problem.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:t964i79jea3jcg3k6...@4ax.com...

The unit, the original two buttons and a third spare all work "close in" but
they no longer are able to "reach" the chime base unit from the front or
side door, only from within the house about 15' away from the unit.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:8e64i79vfr1dd1pp0...@4ax.com...

That is definitely the case here. The basement is fully finished and rented
out. If this was my house, I'd go with a hardwired bell, but that's not
going to happen here. My next step is to get a pair of tweezers to start
resetting the frequencies. I think, as Reed and Joe postulated, it's a
newly installed WiFi hotspot that's the problem. I'll find out this
weekend.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"WW" <cc...@nospambresnan.net> wrote in message
news:0N-dnZL-Vok8hL_S...@bresnan.com...

(Wow - what causes your reply to come up >> instead of >?)

I just don't see that being a problem here with new batteries that read
"hot" and the old batteries that read around 1.4V. It does sound like
taping a small resistor to the back of my DVM might be a good idea, though.

So far, my experience with "phantom" voltage hasn't extended to alkaline
cells and I go through 100's in a year with digital cameras and pocket voice
recorders. Besides, the units work consistently close up - just not at the
distances they used to work. I measured the batteries after we rang the
chimes dozens of times. They still read OK.

Dead batteries were my first assumption when I heard of the range reduction.
I now believe it's some other issue and the next test will involve resetting
the chime's operating frequency to attempt to work around any RFI issues.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

<r.mar...@fdcx.net> wrote in message
news:vs14i71nhbj1mt7ga...@4ax.com...

Brand new batteries in all three buttons - one that came with a replacement
button and two that came off carded battery stock that was in date, NIP and
tested above nominal voltage.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:gi64i7pajaq5tupuk...@4ax.com...

Who doesn't? (-: A long time ago, while moderating a huge 16 line BBS
system in the days before the net, I developed the habit of reading threads
from the latest to the oldest just to avoid the problem.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"Sjouke Burry" <s@b> wrote in message
news:Xns9FE72CCF7396Fsj...@213.75.12.10...

> "Robert Green" <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote in
> news:jfsfc7$jo8$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
> > My neighbor asked me to look at her wireless doorbell, which suddenly
> > stopped working properly. The buttons still work if you move them
> > close to the unit but they no longer work mounted on the outside of
> > the door frame. We've replaced the 3 "D" cells in the base unit and
> > the 12V cells in the two buttons but still no joy.

> Any Wifi wireless ethernet around?
> Or a wireless camera somewhere?
> Look in those kind of culprits.
> A lot of them are on the same or closeby frequency.

WiFi could easily be the culprit. Will know more this weekend - there's
been a medical emergency going on for the last couple of days with her
grandchild - and of course, the doorbell goes out to add to the misery.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"Molly Brown" <recycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec7fe673-4e4f-414c...@t13g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

Good point and a reason to hate some of the newer gadgets that have volatile
memories, no way to read the current settings and are programmed by button
pushes. Fortunately this unit uses DIP jumpers (little black Berg clips) to
set the unit's parameters. I didn't have my trusty tweezers with me
yesterday to pull them nor a magnifying glass to read the teeny, tiny
instruction booklet that's been folded about 16 times and stuffed into the
little package containing the replacement doorbell button that my neighbor
bought because she thought the button had gone bad.

All three buttons (two original and one replacement) activate the unit, but
not from outside the house!

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:sea5i7hmc6nag0ibb...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:02:40 -0500, "Robert Green"

<stuff snipped>

> Those wireless doorbells are a pain in the ass. I've dealt with several
> of them. A place I worked has them because the brick building was too
> hard to run the wires, but as their maintenance guy, I think I had to
> tinker with at least one of them at least twice a month. There were 3
> units, since the building was too large for one receiver and separate
> buttons. this was in the late 1990s

I've had them, and they mostly suck, I agree. The worst was a RatShack unit
that kept falsing.

> About 6 years later I bought one for my home, which has aluminum siding.
> Due to the metal siding, it would not work at all.

It's clear these are flea-powered transmitters.

> They are unreliable and a pain in the ass. If at all possible, put in a
> wired doorbell.

Not possible here. Finished and rented out basement.

> Till then, check the batteries with an actual battery tester. Clean
> contacts, and pray...... Also, if it's real cold outdoors, most
> electronics tend to run poorly, batteries drop in voltage, etc.

Actually, in DC, in midwinter, it's 63F and was about that high for most of
the night. Maybe global warming's for real. (-: I've been here for
almost 40 years and have NEVER seen such a warm winter. Not that I am
knocking it - it's nice not to have enormous heating bills.

I'll be adjusting the unit's operating frequency next. I didn't get a good
look at the manual since I was on my way to get a new car battery. I've
have more time this weekend.

--
Bobby G.

[Twayne]

In news:jfujp9$9dq$2...@speranza.aioe.org,
Robert Green <robert_g...@yah00.com> typed:

Change them out agan and put the issue to bed. Not costly nor time consuming
& takes out some guesswork.

HTH,

Twayne`

[gregz]

I think that's common, and not cheap.

I'm thinking the sets operate around 400 MHz but doubt if anywhere near
wifi.
I don't know if there is a frequency adjust, but I would suspect the
frequency is off.
They are cheap enough to replace the whole thing.

Greg

[Robert Green]

"gregz" <ze...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1112614498349327058.5...@news.eternal-september.org...

I spent some time today testing the various frequency setting jumpers with
no joy. Put a huge metal pot over the WiFi hotspot with no joy. While the
doorbell may not be in the 400MHz range, the harmonics from the hotspot
could be strong enough to "step" on the doorbell signal. I've taken home a
dead, water damaged button to look at the circuit board.

Occasionally a little piece of wire extending the antenna helps. The WiFi
router is unfortunately set up about ten feet away from the doorbell. My
neighbor did not want to turn off the router because it's twitchy to
restart. In fact, I am going to donate one of my old, flea powered UPS's to
her so that it doesn't get locked up when there's a power blip. I think
it's the WiFi unit, but I was surprised that putting it under a big metal
pot had no effect on the doorbell's range. She has some other wireless gear
in the house so RF interference seems likely. I am going to try to figure
out the frequency of this unit (no FCC ID that I could see) and then we'll
look to buy a unit with a different frequency to see if that works any bette
r. As you point out, they're cheap enough that any more hours spent
debugging this one would be a waste compared to just getting a new one.

--
Bobby G.


--
Bobby G.

[micky]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:12:43 -0500, "Robert Green"

Gioid point, and you said it already. Never mind what I said.

>they no longer are able to "reach" the chime base unit from the front or
>side door, only from within the house about 15' away from the unit.

When my remote wouldn't work with my Powerid pyramd IR relay , it
turned out the Powermid transmitter in one room, the device I was
supposed to aim the remote at, was overloaded..

People told me that the CFL lamps or the incancescent lamps would do
that, so I started being more careful to turn lights off in t hat
room, and then on the whole floor. But I would wake up in the
middle of the night, no sun outside either, to see the red indicator
light that said it was receiving IR flashing on and off. I changed
to another transmitter and it did the same thing. So I had to
disconnect the whole thing. I'm going to try a third transmitter,
but there must be some IR or maybe a harmonic of it? somewhere.

So the nexrt step is to put a swtich on the transmitter and turn it
off whenever I leave the room. That will probably help me, but not
you.

[micky]

That doesn't prove much. It's just a variation on "inadequate range".

I have a radio in my shop which always worked fine. When I started
trying to fix my old computer in the shop, the moitor interfered with
the FM reception on the one stattion I listen to, 88.1FM (so I
swticherd to internet radio, but there are still times I'd rather just
turn on the radio.) Months later I went through a period where the
radio worked fine even when the monitor was on. A few days. Then it
went back the old way, and turning the monitor on when the computer
was running ruined the radio reception. I have no idea yet why
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn/t

>router is unfortunately set up about ten feet away from the doorbell. My
>neighbor did not want to turn off the router because it's twitchy to
>restart. In fact, I am going to donate one of my old, flea powered UPS's to
>her so that it doesn't get locked up when there's a power blip. I think
>it's the WiFi unit, but I was surprised that putting it under a big metal
>pot had no effect on the doorbell's range.

Doies the pot have to be grounded? I've never understood this, so I'm
not saying it has to be. But there was some reason in the past I
began to think that. .

[Robert Green]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:a527i7p6nt7sfci55...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:51:55 -0500, "Robert Green"

<stuff snipped>

> >I spent some time today testing the various frequency setting jumpers
with
> >no joy. Put a huge metal pot over the WiFi hotspot with no joy. While
the
> >doorbell may not be in the 400MHz range, the harmonics from the hotspot
> >could be strong enough to "step" on the doorbell signal. I've taken home
a
> >dead, water damaged button to look at the circuit board.
> >
> >Occasionally a little piece of wire extending the antenna helps. The
WiFi
>
> That doesn't prove much. It's just a variation on "inadequate range".

If an added antenna wire extends the range just enough for the unit to work,
that would be OK with me and my neighbor, I think. I just haven't been able
to figure out where the antenna is on the doorbell button unit!

> I have a radio in my shop which always worked fine. When I started
> trying to fix my old computer in the shop, the moitor interfered with
> the FM reception on the one stattion I listen to, 88.1FM (so I
> swticherd to internet radio, but there are still times I'd rather just
> turn on the radio.) Months later I went through a period where the
> radio worked fine even when the monitor was on. A few days. Then it
> went back the old way, and turning the monitor on when the computer
> was running ruined the radio reception. I have no idea yet why
> sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn/t

Well, at least she's got a constant problem - it doesn't work/not work. It
doesn't work at all anymore at the range it used to.

> >router is unfortunately set up about ten feet away from the doorbell. My
> >neighbor did not want to turn off the router because it's twitchy to
> >restart. In fact, I am going to donate one of my old, flea powered UPS's
to
> >her so that it doesn't get locked up when there's a power blip. I think
> >it's the WiFi unit, but I was surprised that putting it under a big metal
> >pot had no effect on the doorbell's range.
>
> Doies the pot have to be grounded? I've never understood this, so I'm
> not saying it has to be. But there was some reason in the past I
> began to think that. .

To be most effective as a "Faraday cage" I assume it should be grounded, but
I also think the RF output of the router would be seriously attenuated by
the pot, grounded or not. With her understandable reluctance to shut down
the router, it's going to be hard to "indict" it as the cause. I
recommended that she relocate the chime's base unit to be much closer to the
doorbell unit than it is now. Right now, we've relocated the doorbell
switch to the center of the wooden front door, behind the storm door and it
works from there. Still, she would rather have it along the edge of the
doorframe but it doesn't work there. She may be better off with the "inside
the storm door" mounting arrangement because the last switch got wet and
corroded and the tiny microswitch has failed.

I told her I could fix the corroded switch by wiring it to an alarm contact
so that if anyone opens the storm door, the unit will fire. She liked that
idea. Attaching the doorbell switch to alarm contacts has another benefit.
I can locate the "guts" of the doorbell switch inside the house and much
closer to the base unit. In fact, I can take a garden variety hard-wired
doorbell button and mount it outside and lead the wire inside to one of her
spare RF doorbell buttons. I'd do that by unsoldering the bad/corroded tiny
pushbutton switch from the circuit board and then soldering wires from the
hard-wired doorbell switch outside to the spots on the board where the old
switch was soldered. That would mean that the RF transmitter was now inside
the house, protected from the weather and closer to the base unit.

All in all, it's probably going to be cheaper and easier just to get a
better/different unit.

--
Bobby G.

[Mark Lloyd]

On 01/27/2012 08:51 PM, Robert Green wrote:

[snip]

>My
> neighbor did not want to turn off the router because it's twitchy to
> restart.

There should be a way to just turn off the wireless AP. With some, you
just press a button on the front. There's no need to turn off the router
itself.

[snip]

> --
> Bobby G.
>
>
> --
> Bobby G.
>
>

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed, or
numbered...My life is my own." -- No. 6

[Roy]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 2:02:40 PM UTC-7, Robert Green wrote:
> My neighbor asked me to look at her wireless doorbell, which suddenly
> stopped working properly. The buttons still work if you move them close to
> the unit but they no longer work mounted on the outside of the door frame.
> We've replaced the 3 "D" cells in the base unit and the 12V cells in the two
> buttons but still no joy.
>

> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Bobby G.

I had one of these units. Made in China POS construction. Will work for maximum of two years and then the electronics are kaput in my estimation. Chuck it and replace or put in a wired unit.

[Robert Green]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

> When my remote wouldn't work with my Powerid pyramd IR relay , it
> turned out the Powermid transmitter in one room, the device I was
> supposed to aim the remote at, was overloaded..
>
> People told me that the CFL lamps or the incancescent lamps would do
> that, so I started being more careful to turn lights off in t hat
> room, and then on the whole floor. But I would wake up in the
> middle of the night, no sun outside either, to see the red indicator
> light that said it was receiving IR flashing on and off. I changed
> to another transmitter and it did the same thing. So I had to
> disconnect the whole thing. I'm going to try a third transmitter,
> but there must be some IR or maybe a harmonic of it? somewhere.

Powermids are very susceptible to strong RFI, which is a serious issue
considering people use them most often with TV sets. Trying moving the
Powermid away from anything that might generate strong RFI. My old tube TVs
were big offenders, but stereos and LCD/LED TV's can do it, too. I set up
my X-10 to turn off all Powermids ) except the link currently in use so that
they don't pick up stray light or RFI and put it "on the line." I had to do
that because with six Powermids spread throughout the house the stray
reception becomes cumulative and really intolerable

I've found that if the LED stops flashing when I put the unit inside a large
pot (with the sensor facing out) then the problem is not stray IR light, but
RFI. I also was able to use my Homevision log (it records IR events, even
those it does not recognize) to determine that at certain times in both
spring and fall that strong, late afternoon sunlight in the room with the
"blasterMid" (-: screwed up Powermid reception.

> So the nexrt step is to put a swtich on the transmitter and turn it
> off whenever I leave the room. That will probably help me, but not
> you.

Yes, that should certainly help you. With X-10 and HomeVision I can set it
to turn off the Powermids when the roomlights are turned off unless I want
to turn them on manually. After I installed my third powermid, things got
totally unreliable so I had to institute some way of turning off units not
in use. Almost all of my IR receivers - the ones without the external
antenna - are located in "alleyways." I try to place them inside things
that create shadows - as in velcroed upside-down in a bookcase at the very
back of a row of books. I've concealed one in a planter - with plastic
flowers - so that I have to fire directly at them to make a hit and so they
are protected from stray light. X-10 is notorious for scaling
difficulties. The more units, the more issues. Each X-10 unit absorbs a
little bit of the signal and the more you have, the more each signal
degrades. How did we get from wireless doorbells to X-10? (-"

Anyway - first test with the Powermid is move it around or Faraday cage it
to see if the LED stops blink. Both units (illogically) respond to stray
light and nearby RF. IIRC, the folks in comp.home.automation or the
AVSFORUM concluded it was bad shielding on the unit's IF transformers that
made them blink when near a strong RFI emitter. That information is subject
to being completely wrong.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"Mark Lloyd" <nota....@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:4f2432d0$0$19341$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...

> On 01/27/2012 08:51 PM, Robert Green wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >My
> > neighbor did not want to turn off the router because it's twitchy to
> > restart.
>
> There should be a way to just turn off the wireless AP. With some, you
> just press a button on the front. There's no need to turn off the router
> itself.

Thanks for that info. Sadly, I learned a long time ago if I touch it, I
will be blamed for anything that goes wrong with it or anything connected to
it in the future. Forever. (-: It's the Good Samaritan law, paragraph
two.

My advice was to move the chime to a place equidistant between the two bell
buttons. If that's not acceptable, I think it's time to buy a new unit.
This isn't the first wireless doorbell I've seen that just grew deaf over
time. You just don't get a lot of milliwatts of RF out of a 12V stack of
button cells.

So I'm sticking with it with that advice. The doorbell's built with
surface-mount components, which I am notorious for converting into "lifted
trace" circuit boards so I've bowed out of this project. I might still wire
up a magnetic switch to the storm door to ring a small chime for her when
someone opens up the front storm door but that's probably best to be a whole
separate circuit with a different sounding chime from the doorbell.

Lots of times the UPS guy will put a package between the two doors and just
rap his knuckles on the door so a door switch and chime on the storm door
reduces the chances of someone "disappearing" the package before you know
it's there. We had a "crew" of junior mobsters here that was following the
morning Fedex truck and undelivering packages as soon as Fedex dropped them
off but they got caught rather quickly.

We also had a different crew that would arrange for drug deliveries to the
houses of people they didn't know (but that they knew weren't going to be
home) and then pick those up after making sure the cops weren't "onto" them.
A local township mayor had his two dogs killed by a drug swat team when his
house was used as a drop point.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"Roy" <wil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32421173.303.1327784047978.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prhb20...

The electronics look simple enough to last forever. Obviously they don't.

--
Bobby G.

[gregz]

I wired up one on the mailbox opening for my father. I removed it when I
was remodeling. I occasionally would hear the chime at odd times. I took
the removed remote and looked outside while I pressed it. Neighbor across
the street, two houses up comes out. I gave that neighbor some stuff before
moving. Talking to them, I explained the situation. They said, for a long
time, they would hear the chime and look outside. The mailman would always
be driving up the street!!!

Greg

[Robert Green]

Followup:

The neighbor's problem was solved by replacing the front door unit with a
wireless unit from Carlon/TruValue for $20 that alleges to transmit to 150
feet. Model # upon request. The $10 unit alleges 75' so I splurged and
bought her the $20 one, which also plays Dixie, the Star Spangled Banner and
some other tunes that are easily (maybe too easily) changed from the
doorbell button. It worked well enough that I'll be getting one for us, too
because our side door unit failed and we just never bothered to replace it.

The range is yet to be thoroughly tested, but it works from the side of the
door where the old one didn't. The method to vary the frequency is very
odd - five exposed through the case metal links you can clip with very small
wire cutters or nail clippers. One way changes only for many people.

The old unit now serves as the side and basement door bell. The new unit
also uses much cheaper batteries - 4 AA's and two button cells instead of 3
D's and a 12V alkaline "stack" battery. The tradeoff is that the new unit
sounds tinnier and isn't as loud. It comes with a beltclip and that made me
think I might get two of them - mount one inside and clip one to my belt for
when I am working in the backyard where I sometimes can't hear the doorbell.

--
Bobby G.

[The Daring Dufas]

I can see it now, some smart ass kid like I was in the middle of the
last century will swipe the outside doorbell button and torment you
and your neighbor until you knock the main unit off the wall. Darn,
if all this technology had been around back when I was a mischievous
little brat, I could have been a very effective sophomoric terrorist.
o_O

TDD

[Robert Green]

"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in message
news:jgv5ie$1ik$1...@dont-email.me...

I'm sure you did your best with the tools you had. (-: We used to make
thermite in high school. And zip guns. And contact explosives. And
rockets.

--
Bobby G.

[The Daring Dufas]

Some of the things me and the other pipsqueak terrorists pulled off were
quite memorable and made our butts hurt. The pain had something to do
with the high speed collision of a belt/paddle with our buttocks. ^_^

TDD