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Cold weather raises driveway
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Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 11:32:15 AM2/2/14
to
After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the
box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the
blacktop is maybe 2" high.
The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not
clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street,
which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of
the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is
a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop
gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start
of the blacktop.
I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each
discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop.
One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other
discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12
feet to one side.
The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped
out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior.
Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
seasonal rise and fall?
Thanks,
R1
night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the
box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the
blacktop is maybe 2" high.
The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not
clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street,
which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of
the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is
a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop
gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start
of the blacktop.
I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each
discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop.
One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other
discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12
feet to one side.
The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped
out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior.
Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
seasonal rise and fall?
Thanks,
R1
DerbyDad03
Feb 2, 2014, 12:24:19 PM2/2/14
to
Asphalt is not very strong around the edges. A raised edge like that,
especially a sharp edge, seems like it would be subject to cracking off.
Is it safe to assume that you don't drive over this edge when it's raised
up? I can't imagine that it could withstand the weight of a car too often
before it started to crack.
CRNG
Feb 2, 2014, 12:40:54 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
wrote in <jquHu.407518$Rp6....@fx15.iad>
>any ideas how to prevent this
>seasonal rise and fall?
My *guess* is that there is a lot of moisture in the soil under the
driveway. Does that seem to the case? If so, then maybe figure out
how to remove or reduce the moisture??
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
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wrote in <jquHu.407518$Rp6....@fx15.iad>
>any ideas how to prevent this
>seasonal rise and fall?
driveway. Does that seem to the case? If so, then maybe figure out
how to remove or reduce the moisture??
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.
micky
Feb 2, 2014, 1:06:06 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
It will go down aga in within a few weeks. If it doesn't you can worry
>After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
about it then.
>
>The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the
>box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the
>blacktop is maybe 2" high.
>
>The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not
>clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street,
>which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of
>the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.)
This I think you could measure yourself and do a better job than Google
>The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the
>box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the
>blacktop is maybe 2" high.
>
>The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not
>clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street,
>which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of
>the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.)
earth. Do you have a level, and maybe a laser pointer, or eyes.
> Behind the garage is
>a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop
>gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start
>of the blacktop.
>
>I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each
>discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop.
>One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other
>discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12
>feet to one side.
probaly of primary importance. IIUC water flows all over the place
underground.
It doesn't go up in height, but when it rains here two squares of the
sidewalk float. When I stand on one it forces water out from under the
sides
>The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped
>out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior.
>
>Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
>with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
>seasonal rise and fall?
the last 10 feet of the driveway. If not lead, get 50,000 pounds of
pillows.
He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long as
the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But maybe it
would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>Thanks,
>
>R1
philo
Feb 2, 2014, 1:17:34 PM2/2/14
to
On 02/02/2014 11:40 AM, CRNG wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
> wrote in <jquHu.407518$Rp6....@fx15.iad>
>
>> any ideas how to prevent this
>> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> My *guess* is that there is a lot of moisture in the soil under the
> driveway. Does that seem to the case? If so, then maybe figure out
> how to remove or reduce the moisture??
>
I'm sure that's the case, as when water freezes it expands.
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
> wrote in <jquHu.407518$Rp6....@fx15.iad>
>
>> any ideas how to prevent this
>> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> My *guess* is that there is a lot of moisture in the soil under the
> driveway. Does that seem to the case? If so, then maybe figure out
> how to remove or reduce the moisture??
>
Good solution would be to move to Arizona.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Feb 2, 2014, 1:26:22 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
wrote:
and buckle and break with freeze-thaw cycles.
Lab Lover
Feb 2, 2014, 1:34:15 PM2/2/14
to
see a citation. Everything I have seen calls for 8" - 10" of well compacted
gravel on top of a solid soil base.
Caulki...@work.com
Feb 2, 2014, 2:13:54 PM2/2/14
to
In the town near where I live, I drive on the same intersection every
time I go to town. The other day I noticed a big "thump". I looked and
the road apparently has risen about 4 inches. The thump is a manhole
cover. That cover used to be level, but it appears the pavement has
risen about 4", but the manhole stayed the same, because the sewer is
below frost line. I'm assuming this will settle back to normal in
Spring. Otherwise the road department will have a repair to do. In the
meantime, I wish they would put some boards or something in that dip,
but they wont, and a snowplow would probably pull them out anyhow. I'll
just have to make sure I drive around it for now.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Feb 2, 2014, 3:46:36 PM2/2/14
to
feet even in New Jersey.
Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 4:17:51 PM2/2/14
to
On 2/2/2014 12:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> I don't have a solution, but I wouldn't call it "only a cosmetic problem".
> Asphalt is not very strong around the edges. A raised edge like that,
> especially a sharp edge, seems like it would be subject to cracking off.
>
> Is it safe to assume that you don't drive over this edge when it's raised
> up? I can't imagine that it could withstand the weight of a car too often
> before it started to crack.
I put the car in the garage every night, so I do drive over it. And yes,
>
> I don't have a solution, but I wouldn't call it "only a cosmetic problem".
> Asphalt is not very strong around the edges. A raised edge like that,
> especially a sharp edge, seems like it would be subject to cracking off.
>
> Is it safe to assume that you don't drive over this edge when it's raised
> up? I can't imagine that it could withstand the weight of a car too often
> before it started to crack.
there is a gap of 1.5 inches.
Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 4:22:31 PM2/2/14
to
many other western states. I'd rather have too much water than too little.
Would you believe that in Colorado it is illegal to collect rainwater
that falls on your property? I guess they want it to recharge the
aquifers, but if you using rain water that you've collected you're not
using water withdrawn from the aquifers.
Watch for water right to become a major issue, especially how the water
from the Colorado River is allocated.
Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 4:27:22 PM2/2/14
to
On 2/2/2014 1:06 PM, micky wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>> night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
>
> It will go down aga in within a few weeks. If it doesn't you can worry
> about it then.
It consistently goes down to the level of the concrete on the warmer
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>> night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
>
> It will go down aga in within a few weeks. If it doesn't you can worry
> about it then.
weather arrives.
>> The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the
>> box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the
>> blacktop is maybe 2" high.
>>
>> The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not
>> clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street,
>> which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of
>> the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.)
>
> This I think you could measure yourself and do a better job than Google
> earth. Do you have a level, and maybe a laser pointer, or eyes.
general indication of the slope.
>
>> Behind the garage is
>> a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop
>> gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start
>> of the blacktop.
>>
>> I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each
>> discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop.
>> One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other
>> discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12
>> feet to one side.
>
> This stuff might matter, but the fact that it rains on the ground is
> probaly of primary importance. IIUC water flows all over the place
> underground.
>
> It doesn't go up in height, but when it rains here two squares of the
> sidewalk float. When I stand on one it forces water out from under the
> sides
That's really bizarre.
>> Behind the garage is
>> a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop
>> gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start
>> of the blacktop.
>>
>> I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each
>> discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop.
>> One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other
>> discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12
>> feet to one side.
>
> This stuff might matter, but the fact that it rains on the ground is
> probaly of primary importance. IIUC water flows all over the place
> underground.
>
> It doesn't go up in height, but when it rains here two squares of the
> sidewalk float. When I stand on one it forces water out from under the
> sides
>
>> The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped
>> out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior.
>>
>> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
>> with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
>> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> Get some big lead weights, maybe 50,000 pounds worth, and put them on
> the last 10 feet of the driveway. If not lead, get 50,000 pounds of
> pillows.
>
> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long as
> the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But maybe it
> would just break the edge off in a straight line.
It's an intriguing idea.
>> The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped
>> out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior.
>>
>> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
>> with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
>> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> Get some big lead weights, maybe 50,000 pounds worth, and put them on
> the last 10 feet of the driveway. If not lead, get 50,000 pounds of
> pillows.
>
> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long as
> the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But maybe it
> would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> R1
>
Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 4:33:06 PM2/2/14
to
2004, I don't see any gravel. The blacktop looks like it's going
directly over compacted soil. This is the heart of the problem. I'll
know better the next time.
Rebel1
Feb 2, 2014, 4:36:35 PM2/2/14
to
buying a house in a warmer climate like South Carolina or Georgia.
>
> In the town near where I live, I drive on the same intersection every
> time I go to town. The other day I noticed a big "thump". I looked and
> the road apparently has risen about 4 inches. The thump is a manhole
> cover. That cover used to be level, but it appears the pavement has
> risen about 4", but the manhole stayed the same, because the sewer is
> below frost line. I'm assuming this will settle back to normal in
> Spring. Otherwise the road department will have a repair to do. In the
> meantime, I wish they would put some boards or something in that dip,
> but they wont, and a snowplow would probably pull them out anyhow. I'll
> just have to make sure I drive around it for now.
>
Lab Lover
Feb 2, 2014, 4:42:36 PM2/2/14
to
specify a 3' base of gravel for an asphalt driveway? I certainly cannot find
anything of the sort. The absolute maximum gravel depth recommendation I can
find for asphalt below the arctic circle is 12" and that is considered
excessive.
Lab Lover
Feb 2, 2014, 4:46:05 PM2/2/14
to
of the National Asphalt Pavement Association. Here is a link to the website:
http://www.asphaltpavement.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=267
and the email address for the engineering department
kha...@asphaltpavement.org
hrho...@sbcglobal.net
Feb 2, 2014, 4:47:42 PM2/2/14
to
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:32:15 AM UTC-6, Rebel1 wrote:
> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/ The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the blacktop is maybe 2" high. The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street, which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start of the blacktop. I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop. One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12 feet to one side. The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior. Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall? Thanks, R1
The title of the OP should say freezing weather, not cold weather. Nothing happens until there is freezing weather.
> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/ The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the blacktop is maybe 2" high. The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street, which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start of the blacktop. I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop. One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12 feet to one side. The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior. Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall? Thanks, R1
It's pretty obvious that there is no seal between the garage and the driveway, so moisture will get into the ground all along the area between the two sides of the driveway whenever it rains. Next year, after the driveway sinks back down, seal the seam so no water can get into the soil right along the edge of the driveay and the garage. Dig something so that any water along the edge of the driveway drains rapidly away, to reduce the moisture in the ground along the side of the filled up seam. You will still have some heaving along the edge of the driveway, but nothing like what you have now. It is fairly obvious that the original installation was deficient in having good drainaige for rainwater under and along the edges of the driveway, so you will have to live with that unless you are willing to redo the entire apron area of the driveway with a proper sand and gravel base.
Tony Hwang
Feb 2, 2014, 5:27:23 PM2/2/14
to
Having extra harsh winter this year, sounds like heaving, will settle
down when spring comes.
micky
Feb 2, 2014, 5:36:06 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 16:27:22 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> This stuff might matter, but the fact that it rains on the ground is
>> probaly of primary importance. IIUC water flows all over the place
>> underground.
>>
>> It doesn't go up in height, but when it rains here two squares of the
>> sidewalk float. When I stand on one
on either one.
>
>> This stuff might matter, but the fact that it rains on the ground is
>> probaly of primary importance. IIUC water flows all over the place
>> underground.
>>
>> It doesn't go up in height, but when it rains here two squares of the
>> sidewalk float. When I stand on one
>>it forces water out from under the
>> sides
>
>That's really bizarre.
>>
top of a hill.
micky
Feb 2, 2014, 5:55:00 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 16:33:06 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>There is definitely not that much. As I look back at the photos from
>2004, I don't see any gravel. The blacktop looks like it's going
>directly over compacted soil. This is the heart of the problem. I'll
>know better the next time.
>
At least you didn't contribute to the gravel shortage. That's going to
>
>There is definitely not that much. As I look back at the photos from
>2004, I don't see any gravel. The blacktop looks like it's going
>directly over compacted soil. This is the heart of the problem. I'll
>know better the next time.
>
be a big issue in 2014 and 15.
micky
Feb 2, 2014, 5:59:32 PM2/2/14
to
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 13:13:54 -0600, Caulki...@work.com wrote:
>
>In the town near where I live, I drive on the same intersection every
>time I go to town. The other day I noticed a big "thump". I looked and
>the road apparently has risen about 4 inches. The thump is a manhole
>cover. That cover used to be level, but it appears the pavement has
>risen about 4", but the manhole stayed the same, because the sewer is
>below frost line. I'm assuming this will settle back to normal in
>Spring. Otherwise the road department will have a repair to do. In the
>meantime, I wish they would put some boards or something in that dip,
When I was in elementary school, they repaved Carlisle Avenue, and where
>
>In the town near where I live, I drive on the same intersection every
>time I go to town. The other day I noticed a big "thump". I looked and
>the road apparently has risen about 4 inches. The thump is a manhole
>cover. That cover used to be level, but it appears the pavement has
>risen about 4", but the manhole stayed the same, because the sewer is
>below frost line. I'm assuming this will settle back to normal in
>Spring. Otherwise the road department will have a repair to do. In the
>meantime, I wish they would put some boards or something in that dip,
the manhole was, they left an empty square, about 4" bigger than the
manhole on each side. With nothing in the corners or edges.
Then I broke my leg and my mother was zooming down that street to get to
the hospital and see how I was. She went right into the hole with one
wheel and her head hit the roof of the car, Back when the roof was
maybe a foot higher than a woman's head. She was 5'4"
AFAIK, she didn't even damage the rim enough to need a new one. Or her
head.
philo
Feb 2, 2014, 6:54:37 PM2/2/14
to
On 02/02/2014 03:22 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
> X
impossible
>
> Would you believe that in Colorado it is illegal to collect rainwater
> that falls on your property? I guess they want it to recharge the
> aquifers, but if you using rain water that you've collected you're not
> using water withdrawn from the aquifers.
I read an article on that. I think it's criminal that you could get
prosecuted for having a rain barrel.
> X
>>
>> I'm sure that's the case, as when water freezes it expands.
>>
>> Good solution would be to move to Arizona.
>
> No, Arizona is in what many consider to be a permanent drought, as are
> many other western states. I'd rather have too much water than too little.
I was just kidding about that. The Winters there are nice but Summers
>> I'm sure that's the case, as when water freezes it expands.
>>
>> Good solution would be to move to Arizona.
>
> No, Arizona is in what many consider to be a permanent drought, as are
> many other western states. I'd rather have too much water than too little.
impossible
>
> Would you believe that in Colorado it is illegal to collect rainwater
> that falls on your property? I guess they want it to recharge the
> aquifers, but if you using rain water that you've collected you're not
> using water withdrawn from the aquifers.
prosecuted for having a rain barrel.
>
> Watch for water right to become a major issue, especially how the water
> from the Colorado River is allocated.
>
I've been to Colorado many times and like it though.
> Watch for water right to become a major issue, especially how the water
> from the Colorado River is allocated.
>
k...@attt.bizz
Feb 2, 2014, 7:20:02 PM2/2/14
to
>On 2/2/2014 1:06 PM, micky wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>>> night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
>>
>> It will go down aga in within a few weeks. If it doesn't you can worry
>> about it then.
>
>It consistently goes down to the level of the concrete on the warmer
>weather arrives.
That's a classical "frost heave". As long as it goes down, you're
>> On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:15 -0500, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and
>>> night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
>>
>> It will go down aga in within a few weeks. If it doesn't you can worry
>> about it then.
>
>It consistently goes down to the level of the concrete on the warmer
>weather arrives.
probably OK. It's not good for the slab but you'll have to take it up
to fix it anyway. You need more drainage under it. Remove all clay
and replace it with stone, at least 6" of stone. More is better.
As long as it goes down every spring, you can wait for it to fail
before you fix it, though. At least I don't know of any fixes that
can be done without destroying the slab.
The reason you garage floor doesn't do this is because there is a
"frost wall" under the door opening to keep the frost out of the
ground under the garage. That's why you see the edge.
<...>
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Feb 2, 2014, 9:49:59 PM2/2/14
to
soil.. I',m on sand and about 2 feet of gravel under my driveway..
Bob F
Feb 2, 2014, 11:43:18 PM2/2/14
to
Rebel1 wrote:
>> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
>> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long
>> as the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But
>> maybe it would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>
> It's an intriguing idea.
Just cut a 2x6 diagonally to make a ramp so the weight doesn't all yo on the
>> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
>> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long
>> as the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But
>> maybe it would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>
> It's an intriguing idea.
edge as you drive over it.
Next driveway, put a deep layer of gravel with good drainage under the driveway.
Rebel1
Feb 3, 2014, 5:50:14 AM2/3/14
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>
> That's a classical "frost heave". As long as it goes down, you're
> probably OK. It's not good for the slab but you'll have to take it up
> to fix it anyway. You need more drainage under it. Remove all clay
> and replace it with stone, at least 6" of stone. More is better.
>
> As long as it goes down every spring, you can wait for it to fail
> before you fix it, though. At least I don't know of any fixes that
> can be done without destroying the slab.
>
> The reason you garage floor doesn't do this is because there is a
> "frost wall" under the door opening to keep the frost out of the
> ground under the garage. That's why you see the edge.
garage, right at the entrance, that had been replaced roughly 16 years
ago. May that's the reason.
Rebel1
Feb 3, 2014, 5:57:40 AM2/3/14
to
there is a gap from the crumbled blacktop over the years.The unused side
of the blacktop rises equally, but there is no gap because I never drove
over that edge.
Rebel1
Feb 3, 2014, 6:00:19 AM2/3/14
to
followup when I return.
R1
Rebel1
Feb 3, 2014, 6:02:20 AM2/3/14
to
fall problem, but I might have been talking to a wall. I'll know better
next time.
Thanks,
R1
Stormin Mormon
Feb 3, 2014, 8:09:25 AM2/3/14
to
On 2/2/2014 11:32 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
and wooden deck. Winter, the deck comes up and then
I can't close my storm door. Of course, winter is
when I most need the storm door.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/7045854121/in/photostream/
Did you have a clogged drain?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
>
>
> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
> with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> Thanks,
>
> R1
Don't know. I have the same problem with my trailer
>
> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level
> with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this
> seasonal rise and fall?
>
> Thanks,
>
> R1
and wooden deck. Winter, the deck comes up and then
I can't close my storm door. Of course, winter is
when I most need the storm door.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/7045854121/in/photostream/
Did you have a clogged drain?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 3, 2014, 8:56:29 AM2/3/14
to
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 4:47:42 PM UTC-5, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:32:15 AM UTC-6, Rebel1 wrote:
>
> > After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/ The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the blacktop is maybe 2" high. The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street, which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start of the blacktop. I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop. One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12 feet to one side. The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior. Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall? Thanks, R1
>
>
>
> The title of the OP should say freezing weather, not cold weather. Nothing happens until there is freezing weather.
>
>
>
> It's pretty obvious that there is no seal between the garage and the driveway, so moisture will get into the ground all along the area between the two sides of the driveway whenever it rains. Next year, after the driveway sinks back down, seal the seam so no water can get into the soil right along the edge of the driveay and the garage.
That's worth a try and certainly can't hurt. If
> On Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:32:15 AM UTC-6, Rebel1 wrote:
>
> > After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/ The baking soda box is 2" high. The edge of the blacktop closest to the box is raised about 1.5"; about a foot further from the garage, the blacktop is maybe 2" high. The house is on a slab. Soil in central NJ is somewhat heavy, but not clay-like. The whole property slopes gently down toward the street, which is 100 feet away. (According to Google Earth, the street end of the driveway is 3 feet lower than the garage end.) Behind the garage is a utility room. A little far-fetched that the water under the blacktop gets there by seeping from the back yard under the 28' slab to the start of the blacktop. I have two good gutters taking roof water away from the blacktop. Each discharges its water at least 12 feet from the sides of the blacktop. One discharges its water about 25 feet closer to the street; the other discharges about where the blacktop meets the garage, but as I said 12 feet to one side. The driveway is 10 years old. The old one, which was completely ripped out down to bare soil, also showed the same cold-weather behavior. Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall? Thanks, R1
>
>
>
> The title of the OP should say freezing weather, not cold weather. Nothing happens until there is freezing weather.
>
>
>
> It's pretty obvious that there is no seal between the garage and the driveway, so moisture will get into the ground all along the area between the two sides of the driveway whenever it rains. Next year, after the driveway sinks back down, seal the seam so no water can get into the soil right along the edge of the driveay and the garage.
it's not the major cause of the problem though, it
will still lift anyway pulling the seal out with it,
so it may not last. But even if it doesn't stay
really sealed, even reducing the gap may help.
They have a rope type product that you can put in the
crack, if it's wide enough, then heat with a torch to
melt.
Dig something so that any water along the edge of the driveway drains rapidly away, to reduce the moisture in the ground along the side of the filled up seam. You will still have some heaving along the edge of the driveway, but nothing like what you have now. It is fairly obvious that the original installation was deficient in having good drainaige for rainwater under and along the edges of the driveway, so you will have to live with that unless you are willing to redo the entire apron area of the driveway with a proper sand and gravel base.
base. The best he can do short of ripping it out is to
get out there in a heavy rain and see how and where the
water is flowing. Anything that can be done to get the
water away from the sides where it can get under the
asphalt should help. And you really need to look when
it's raining. What you think might be happening based
on grade, etc, and what actually happens may be different.
The idea of having a board to place on the concrete at
the lifted edge that someone else suggested is a good
idea too. That could help keep the asphalt from
starting to crumble.
Lab Lover
Feb 3, 2014, 9:15:53 AM2/3/14
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understand.
micky
Feb 3, 2014, 9:55:51 AM2/3/14
to
to be perfect. Actually, nothing has to be perfect. (It's just that it
looked so nice in the photo.)
Lab Lover
Feb 3, 2014, 10:10:01 AM2/3/14
to
problem. Building codes and engineering guidelines / practices call for 6 - 10"
of well compacted gravel under the asphalt. In fact, the gravel is far more
important, structurally, than the asphalt itself.
Susan Bugher
Feb 3, 2014, 1:09:27 PM2/3/14
to
On 2/2/2014 11:32 AM, Rebel1 wrote:> After maybe a week of temperatures continuously below freezing, day and night, my driveway raises well above the level of the garage's concrete.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
<snip>
> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall?
As others have noted, you have a frost heave problem. There's a pretty good overview of causes and cures here:
<http://www.pavement.com/Concrete_Pavement/Technical/Fundamentals/Frost.asp>
Any method that reduces moisture under the pavement should alleviate or cure the rise and fall problem.
Susan
--
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/12270828796/
<snip>
> Even though it's only a cosmetic problem, and the blacktop will be level with the concrete once the weather warms, any ideas how to prevent this seasonal rise and fall?
<http://www.pavement.com/Concrete_Pavement/Technical/Fundamentals/Frost.asp>
Any method that reduces moisture under the pavement should alleviate or cure the rise and fall problem.
Susan
--
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Feb 3, 2014, 5:35:17 PM2/3/14
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k...@attt.bizz
Feb 3, 2014, 6:50:04 PM2/3/14
to
On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 20:43:18 -0800, "Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Rebel1 wrote:
>>> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
>>> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long
>>> as the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But
>>> maybe it would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>>
>> It's an intriguing idea.
>
>Just cut a 2x6 diagonally to make a ramp so the weight doesn't all yo on the
>edge as you drive over it.
Don't even need to cut it diagonally. A 2x4 in front of it will do
just fine. The car will "jump" that instead of putting pressure on
the concrete edge.
wrote:
>Rebel1 wrote:
>>> He's right. Diving over the edge is going to break it. If you
>>> absolutely have to, maybe a steel plate 6 " wide or more and as long
>>> as the car is wide, or more, would distribute the weight. But
>>> maybe it would just break the edge off in a straight line.
>>
>> It's an intriguing idea.
>
>Just cut a 2x6 diagonally to make a ramp so the weight doesn't all yo on the
>edge as you drive over it.
just fine. The car will "jump" that instead of putting pressure on
the concrete edge.
Stormin Mormon
Feb 3, 2014, 6:54:30 PM2/3/14
to
>> Don't know. I have the same problem with my trailer
>> and wooden deck. Winter, the deck comes up and then
>> I can't close my storm door. Of course, winter is
>> when I most need the storm door.
>
>> and wooden deck. Winter, the deck comes up and then
>> I can't close my storm door. Of course, winter is
>> when I most need the storm door.
>
> Put more air in the trailer tires.
Tires not on the ground. Frame on blocks and shim.
Rebel1
Feb 4, 2014, 6:00:28 PM2/4/14
to
Rebel1
Feb 4, 2014, 6:04:05 PM2/4/14
to
installation 10 years ago; the new blacktop was firmly against the
concrete, but that wasn't good enough.
R1
Rebel1
Feb 4, 2014, 8:22:20 PM2/4/14
to
On 2/2/2014 4:47 PM, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
the blacktop faster than it can seep into the sand/soil layer below (and
at the sides of) the gravel, the water will eventually fill the voids in
the gravel layer. Then if a prolonged freeze comes along, the blacktop
will still lift.
Thus a deeper layer will take a greater amount of water to saturate the
voids. As long as at least some of the voids in the gravel remain filled
with air, then the blacktop should not lift.
Is this the theory?
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Feb 4, 2014, 9:47:01 PM2/4/14
to
On Tue, 04 Feb 2014 20:22:20 -0500, Rebel1 <ray...@optonline.net>
wrote:
Not quite. The gravel is to allow full drainage to below the frost
line while providing a stable base to support the load of and on the
driveway.
wrote:
line while providing a stable base to support the load of and on the
driveway.
hrho...@sbcglobal.net
Feb 4, 2014, 10:52:35 PM2/4/14
to
That's the explanation that most folks don't understand, about the need for gravel and sand to go down to below the frost line,
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 5, 2014, 9:58:52 AM2/5/14
to
be 3 ft of gravel here. And a variety of materials are used,
not just gravel. The main purpose is you want the asphalt on
top of something stable, not soft soil, loam, mud, etc. The
soft stuff is taken out until you get down to something harder
and subtantial. So to do asphalt you take out the soil and replace
it with stabilized base material, compact it, then proceed. If you
want to see more, google "stabilized base".
hrho...@sbcglobal.net
Feb 5, 2014, 11:03:34 AM2/5/14
to
The frost line is proably not that deep right next to a building or large slab of concrete. All I know for sure is that my driveway heaves no more than 1/2 inch at most, and when it was put in I was a fanatic about having a proper base of sand and gravel, and it has apparently worked as the driveway has been in place for 20 years without any problems.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 5, 2014, 12:07:42 PM2/5/14
to
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:03:34 AM UTC-5, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> The frost line is proably not that deep right next to a building or large slab of concrete. All I know for sure is that my driveway heaves no more than 1/2 inch at most, and when it was put in I was a fanatic about having a proper base of sand and gravel, and it has apparently worked as the driveway has been in place for 20 years without any problems.
I agree that you need a proper stabilized base. But in northern climates
> The frost line is proably not that deep right next to a building or large slab of concrete. All I know for sure is that my driveway heaves no more than 1/2 inch at most, and when it was put in I was a fanatic about having a proper base of sand and gravel, and it has apparently worked as the driveway has been in place for 20 years without any problems.
it's not typical to excavate down to below the frost line and replace it
with gravel or other material. The main thing is any soft soil has to go.
Around here that's 6" to maybe 12". Below that if you have rock, clay,
gravel, whatever, as long as it's firm and stable, you leave it alone.
You put stabilized base material in to replace some of the soft material
removed, bringing it back up to the right height.
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