Hot water bottle sealant

[Mayayana]

I've now got 3 hot water bottles from CVS. They
last a few weeks and then start leaking. I cut open
the tops and discovered that it uses a clear plastic
threaded insert. The bag is some kind of vinyl/plastic.
The insert looks like acrylic. It has large threads on
the outside to screw into the bag opening and
large threading on the inside to accomodate the
plastic plug threads. The leaking happens between
the insert and the bag.

Now I'm wondering what I might seal that with.
My thought is to back out the insert, which seems
to seal merely by its snugness, and add some kind
of sealant, then screw it back in.
Polyurethane construction adhesive? Thick epoxy
glue? It needs to be something flexible that will stick
well to both parts and resist heat and water. My first
thought was a gasket sealant I used to use on bad
drain connections. It was reddish black, gooey and
dried hard. But I can't seem to find that product
anymore. Any caulking I can think of wouldn't hold up.
Cyanoacrylate *might* stick but wouldn't fill gaps....

[philo]

On 11/29/2014 01:32 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> I've now got 3 hot water bottles from CVS. They
> last a few weeks and then start leaking. I cut open
> the tops and discovered that it uses a clear plastic
> threaded insert. The bag is some kind of vinyl/plastic.
> The insert looks like acrylic. It has large threads on
> the outside to screw into the bag opening and
> large threading on the inside to accomodate the
> plastic plug threads. The leaking happens between
> the insert and the bag.
>
> Now I'm wondering what I might seal that with.
>

Why would you bother? Since they are defective you should return them
for a refund and inform CVS the whole lot of them is probably defective...
then get a different brand

[Mayayana]

| > Now I'm wondering what I might seal that with.
| >
|
| Why would you bother?

Because I have 3 perfectly good hot water bottles, if
I can just seal the tops. They should all last until they
get accidentally punctured.

| Since they are defective you should return them
| for a refund and inform CVS the whole lot of them is probably defective...
| then get a different brand
|

They all worked for awhile before they started to
leak, so none of them is new and I have no receipts.
I don't save receipts for $10 items, anyway. And CVS
has one brand. Do you suppose Walgreens has a
much better brand? I don't see any reason to think
that. I'm guessing it's a case of planned obsolescence.

So I can go out and test different brands, assuming
I can find different brands, or if I find the right sealant
I can have 3 new hot water bottles and the knowledge
of how to fix the next one that leaks.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

Silicone rubber stays flexible. But why not go to Walgreens and see if their bottles have the same construction, you ought to be able to tell by looking at the stopper area if it will have the same problem.

[TomR]

In news:m5d6qm$ebc$1...@dont-email.me,
Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> typed:

My guess is that this stuff from Pep Boys will work. I use it as an engine
oil pan sealant and gasket maker, which is a high temp location. It is also
the same stuff that Hyundai dealers use.

[nestork]

Would clear silicone caulk work here?

Silicone caulk remains soft and flexible, and will tolerate very high
temperatures (300+ deg. F)




--
nestork

[TomR]

In news:m5djn9$stj$1...@dont-email.me,
TomR <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> typed:

Oops, I forgot to add what "this stuff" is:
http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/398556/00059

[J Burns]

On 11/29/14, 2:32 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> Now I'm wondering what I might seal that with.
> My thought is to back out the insert, which seems
> to seal merely by its snugness, and add some kind
> of sealant, then screw it back in.

If you don't need glue to fasten the inserts, plumbers' grease should
seal them. Hot water isn't supposed to melt it, and it won't react with
the materials in valves.

[philo]

On 11/29/2014 04:40 PM, Mayayana wrote:

<snip>

> They all worked for awhile before they started to
> leak, so none of them is new and I have no receipts.
> I don't save receipts for $10 items, anyway. And CVS
> has one brand. Do you suppose Walgreens has a
> much better brand? I don't see any reason to think
> that. I'm guessing it's a case of planned obsolescence.
>
> So I can go out and test different brands, assuming
> I can find different brands, or if I find the right sealant
> I can have 3 new hot water bottles and the knowledge
> of how to fix the next one that leaks.
>
>

In your original post you said they were just a few weeks old.

Even if you do not have a receipt I think that CVS is a reliable enough
store that they would want to know that they were selling a clearly
defective product.

You will be doing yourself, CVS and many other customers a big favor by
reporting this defective product.

If Walgreens sells the same brand though, no, I would not go there and
buy one ...but chances are they have a different brand.

[Mayayana]

| Even if you do not have a receipt I think that CVS is a reliable enough
| store that they would want to know that they were selling a clearly
| defective product.
|

How about this: I'll give you one, then you can
return it for the $10 refund. I imagine that will make
your day. You'll make 10 bucks and you can stop
pestering me.

I'm sure half of America would love to advise me on
how to be a smart and demanding consumer. But my
question is about sealant options for rubber/plastic.

[Mayayana]

| > My guess is that this stuff from Pep Boys will work. I use it as an
| > engine oil pan sealant and gasket maker, which is a high temp
| > location. It is also the same stuff that Hyundai dealers use.
|
| Oops, I forgot to add what "this stuff" is:
| http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/398556/00059
|

That's a thought. I hadn't thought of automotive
products. But it needs to stick really well to both
surfaces, too. Gasket goo ends up under pressure.
It doesn't need to actually stick.

[philo]

OK carry on then.


If you manage to find a good fix, post back with what worked .

Most of the sealing products cost about as much as the dang water bottle.

[Mayayana]

| If you don't need glue to fasten the inserts, plumbers' grease should
| seal them. Hot water isn't supposed to melt it, and it won't react with
| the materials in valves.

You mean the paste sealant ued instead of
teflon tape? That might work. The stuff I had
in mind is a version of that that hardens.

It's hard to guess exactly what will work best.
The fitting is "screwed into" the plastic
bottle mouth with giant threads. There seems
to be no sealant of any kind now, but one would
think that the pressure would be enough to seal it.
I'm speculating that the insert was designed for
a more rubbery bottle that would mold itself
around the threads, though I don't really know.

[J Burns]

On 11/29/14, 7:54 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> | If you don't need glue to fasten the inserts, plumbers' grease should
> | seal them. Hot water isn't supposed to melt it, and it won't react with
> | the materials in valves.
>
> You mean the paste sealant ued instead of
> teflon tape? That might work. The stuff I had
> in mind is a version of that that hardens.
>

It's grease, intended to protect and lubricate valves. It's useful from
-40 to 400 F, isn't toxic, and doesn't affect things like O rings. When
I overhauled a pump-up sprayer, I used plumber's grease to be sure
connections wouldn't leak water or air.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 11/29/2014 5:40 PM, Mayayana wrote:

> So I can go out and test different brands, assuming
> I can find different brands, or if I find the right sealant
> I can have 3 new hot water bottles and the knowledge
> of how to fix the next one that leaks.
>
>

Buy one of the gel packs you heat in the microwave.

[dadiOH]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:m5d6qm$ebc$1...@dont-email.me

I would try two things:

1. Acetone. Dip the threaded insert in acetone and immediately insert
while rotating. Basically, you are fixing a leaky water bed.

2. Silicone caulk. Do as above.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[philo]

The OP is not going to do that.

He is going to fix that $10 bottle even if it costs him $20 to do so.


A good engineer at this point would ask why he needs the hot water
bottle and if he's got a muscle ache (for example) to address /that/
problem so he does not need the water bottle in the first place.


All kidding aside though, I /do/ understand why he wants to just fix it
rather than take it back for a refund. I fix a ton of things that 99%
would toss.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/30/2014 8:32 AM, philo wrote:
>
> All kidding aside though, I /do/ understand why he wants to just fix it
> rather than take it back for a refund. I fix a ton of things that 99%
> would toss.

That's what happens when one grows up in the
shadow of The Great Depression.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Mayayana]

| 1. Acetone. Dip the threaded insert in acetone and immediately insert
| while rotating. Basically, you are fixing a leaky water bed.

Does acetone dissolve plastic? I've never known
of any usage other than removing nail polish or
cyanoacrylate glue.

[Mayayana]

| > All kidding aside though, I /do/ understand why he wants to just fix it
| > rather than take it back for a refund. I fix a ton of things that 99%
| > would toss.
|
| That's what happens when one grows up in the
| shadow of The Great Depression.

Anyone living who grew up during the Depression
would be at least 85 now. My very elderly father
grew up in the Depression. (Born 1922.) He still
buys groceries based on price rather than taste or
nutritional value. (And finding a bargain is still the
high point of his week.) I grew up in the 60s and
early 70s, when white picket fences were starting to
look a bit haggard and we could afford to question
the American Dream that we were being herded into.

But I enjoy being able to do things for myself. In
general I find it very practical. Why throw out a
perfectly good hot water bottle if it can be fixed?
It's *usually* more economical. There's
also an aesthetic/moral aspect: We all waste a
great deal because we simply don't need to pay
attention. But that's a sloppy, unsatisfying way to
live. It can also an expensive way to live.
(Computerized devices and smart phones are a great
current example. People buy new ones before they've
even paid off the old ones, which they really didn't
need in the first place.)

But as Clint Eastwood said so well, "A man's just
got to know his limitations." Last week we got a new
toaster oven. Supposedly high-end. A fancy Italian
model from Bloomingdales that was deeply discounted.
It was junk. The elements only partially heated. Besides,
the thing was ridiculously big. A giant, caverous waste
of heat just to cook toast. So I'm not researching
replacement elements. That toaster oven went back. :)

That brings up an interesting issue, though, that
I expect others have noticed: We live in a time of
global trade, yet variety keeps shrinking. There used
to be more stores, carrying more items. A hardware
store would be run by someone who knew hardware
and ordered from numerous suppliers. Likewise with
dpartment stores. Today they all contract with a stock
company to fill the shelves with whatever's cheap this
month, and they all carry the same things. It's the
same with clothing, electronics, etc. Target carries the
same electroincs models that Best Buy has. CVS is a
clone of Walgreens. Lowes is a clone of HD. Hardware
stores all stock the same selection of hinges and pulls.
Is there more than one company supplying hot water
bottles in the US? I don't know. Probably. But I wouldn't
be surprised if there isn't.

[philo]

On 11/30/2014 09:56 AM, Mayayana wrote:
>


<snip>

>
> Anyone living who grew up during the Depression
> would be at least 85 now. My very elderly father
> grew up in the Depression. (Born 1922.) He still
> buys groceries based on price rather than taste or
> nutritional value. (And finding a bargain is still the
> high point of his week.) I grew up in the 60s and
> early 70s, when white picket fences were starting to
> look a bit haggard and we could afford to question
> the American Dream that we were being herded into.

Though I did not grow up during the depression, my father did and I
really got a good picture of what it was like.

One day he came home from the store crying because he was not able to
get the loaf a bread he was sent out to get...the family was short by
one penny.
They had to wait a few days for my grandfather to get back to town with
the small amount of money he earned by selling eggs door to door.

The reason the family was able to eat was because my father trapped
pigeons under the bridge!

>
> But I enjoy being able to do things for myself. In
> general I find it very practical. Why throw out a
> perfectly good hot water bottle if it can be fixed?
> It's *usually* more economical. There's
> also an aesthetic/moral aspect: We all waste a
> great deal because we simply don't need to pay
> attention. But that's a sloppy, unsatisfying way to
> live. It can also an expensive way to live.
> (Computerized devices and smart phones are a great
> current example. People buy new ones before they've
> even paid off the old ones, which they really didn't
> need in the first place.)
>

<snipped for brevity>


I just did a quick on-line search and you will be happy to know there
are a lot of varieties of hot water bottles some for as little as $4

There was one type I saw that clamped shut and did not require a
screw-in plug.


As to your comment (that I snipped for brevity) about Lowes being a
clone of HD....yep!

I was in the industrial battery business and we had a national contract
with HD. When we got the Lowes account they wanted a contract just like
HD only with one improvement to it...and that's what we gave them.


BTW: They were both good customers and when I have a good customer at
work, I support them back.

[Fred McKenzie]

In article <m5dli7$2il$1...@dont-email.me>, J Burns <bur...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I was going to suggest Vaseline or petroleum jelly, but plumber's grease
may be better.

You might try any kind of grease you have on hand, and see if reasonable
pressure causes a leak.

What about an O-Ring? An O-Ring lubricated with petroleum jelly?

Fred

[Mayayana]

| You might try any kind of grease you have on hand, and see if reasonable
| pressure causes a leak.
|
| What about an O-Ring? An O-Ring lubricated with petroleum jelly?
|

There can be high pressure with a hot water
bottle, and the seal needs to be between the
threads and the bottle's plastic wall. It's hard
to see how something that's not adhesive would
work. If water can be pushed through between
the isert threads and plastic wall then why
wouldn't it also push grease or petrolatum
through?

[TimR]

Does anybody still blow these up?

When we were kids (60s) it was a test of strength to blow into one until it exploded, similar to how we used to tear apart sixpack plastic connectors.

[dadiOH]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote in message

news:m5fehq$ftm$1...@dont-email.me

> > > All kidding aside though, I /do/ understand why he wants to just fix
> > > it rather than take it back for a refund. I fix a ton of things that
> > > 99% would toss.
> >
> > That's what happens when one grows up in the
> > shadow of The Great Depression.
>
> Anyone living who grew up during the Depression
> would be at least 85 now.

I did, I'm 81. Can't say the depression really affected us though, the
old man always had a position. Neverhteless, frugality is ingrained in
me.

> That brings up an interesting issue, though, that
> I expect others have noticed: We live in a time of
> global trade, yet variety keeps shrinking.

?? Have you looked at bread or chips in a supermarket recently?? :)

> There used
> to be more stores, carrying more items. A hardware
> store would be run by someone who knew hardware
> and ordered from numerous suppliers. Likewise with

> department stores.

True that. Moreover, the clerks generally knew something about what they
were selling.

[dadiOH]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote in message

news:m5fd27$a4e$1...@dont-email.me

Yep. Think PVC pipe glue. Takes a while to actually dissolve it though,
to soften so one thing adheres to another, not so much.

[Mayayana]

| > Anyone living who grew up during the Depression
| > would be at least 85 now.

| I did, I'm 81.

That would have made you 7 y.o. in 1940. So you
grew up affected by the Depression, but by the time
you were out and about we were into WW2.

| > That brings up an interesting issue, though, that
| > I expect others have noticed: We live in a time of
| > global trade, yet variety keeps shrinking.
|
| ?? Have you looked at bread or chips in a supermarket recently?? :)
|

True enough. And cigarettes. Growing up we only
had one version of Winston or Marlboro. Now there
are probably 6 of each. :) I guess that's true with
most edibles. There's real variety. (ex.: beer) And
there's also trumped up variety. (ex.: types of soda
and cigarettes, as well as a large variety of industrial
foods)

It's an interesting question as to why it works that
way. I guess it's mostly durable goods that lack
variety and lack sources. Those kinds of stores
have gradually disappeared or gone to chain versions.
There used to be 3 hardware stores within about
2 miles of me. Now there are none. Stationery? gone.
And if I go to the mall there's almost nothing practical.
It's mostly clothing stores for early-teen girls.

[Stormin Mormon]

When my former friend Lenny had a winter power cut
(due to not paying the bill) I visited several times,
loaned him my propane heater, ran the furnace off
my generator, etc.

They still had gas hot water. I suggested to Amy
to make a hot water bottle with a soda pop bottle.
She had no clue (like so many moments there). I
filled one of the kids twenty ouncer Mt Dew
bottles with hot water from the tap. Slipped it
into my coat, and made MMMM noises. Handed it to
her. She slipped the water bottle in and then I
could see the light bulb (non electric) go on.

Would a two or three liter soda bottle do the job
and less likely to leak?

--

[Ed Pawlowski]

It will dissolve styrene based plastics.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/30/2014 10:56 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> But I enjoy being able to do things for myself. In
> general I find it very practical. Why throw out a
> perfectly good hot water bottle if it can be fixed?

Uh, you might want to consider. Perfectly good
and leaking are not adjectives used to describe
the same hot water bottle at the same point in
space at the same time. Fizziks, you know.

If you keep buying and fixing broken stuff from
the store, they will keep selling broken stuff.
It's only by active and assertive returns that
stores learn of their broken stuff. You are
rewarding the sale of broken stuff by fixing it
your self.

"We sold a million units, and not one was
returned". See?

--

[J Burns]

Grease has been used for centuries, maybe thousands of years, to make
airtight or watertight seals. Various adhesives adhere to various
surfaces. Grease seems to adhere to everything. When an adhesive
hardens, it may break loose and no longer adhere. Grease keeps adhering.

If I used grease to close a 1" hole, it wouldn't take much pressure to
push it out. If I whittled a wooden plug for the hole and greased it,
the grease would block the tiny spaces where the plug didn't match the
hole. As long as grease doesn't melt, it will resist a lot of pressure,
depending on how tiny the holes are. The spaces between your threads
must be tiny.

[Roger]

replying to Mayayana , Roger wrote:

> mayayana wrote:
>
> I've now got 3 hot water bottles from CVS. They
> last a few weeks and then start leaking. I cut open
> the tops and discovered that it uses a clear plastic
> threaded insert. The bag is some kind of vinyl/plastic.
> The insert looks like acrylic. It has large threads on
> the outside to screw into the bag opening and
> large threading on the inside to accomodate the
> plastic plug threads. The leaking happens between
> the insert and the bag.

> Now I'm wondering what I might seal that with.
> My thought is to back out the insert, which seems
> to seal merely by its snugness, and add some kind
> of sealant, then screw it back in.

> Polyurethane construction adhesive? Thick epoxy
> glue? It needs to be something flexible that will stick
> well to both parts and resist heat and water. My first
> thought was a gasket sealant I used to use on bad
> drain connections. It was reddish black, gooey and
> dried hard. But I can't seem to find that product
> anymore. Any caulking I can think of wouldn't hold up.
> Cyanoacrylate *might* stick but wouldn't fill gaps....

The same exact thing happened to me. I experienced a life changing back
injury. Went and bought hot water bottles from CVS for warm moist heat
therapy (and no mediocre artificial gel microwave packs do not rise to
this chronic, life long challenge). Every 2 months I found myself sending
someone out to buy 3 or 4 more hot water bottles from the only pharmacy
around. ( I need 3-4 each night for coverage over the injured areas) The
other stores I have checked such as Walmart stopped carrying the durable
and higher quality red ribbed rubber hot water bottles. So I was left
with only these cheap reddish plastic bottles, made from the kind of
plastic that when heated probably shouldn't be against your skin, doesn't
hold the heat the way rubber does, and most likely is the very cheapest
material they could find to make the highest profit imaginable in the
market. I really WANT to return them, but I never kept the boxes they came
in OR the receipts. How can I possibly walk into CVS and expect my money
back under those conditions? Each time I bought more, under the duress of
intense pain, I kept having faith that THIS time they would not leak,
since rubber hot water bottles never used to leak, I have never heard of a
rubber hot water bottle ever leaking in my entire life, not until they dry
rotted decades later! I have bought 3 batches, and VOW to NEVER buy them
again. And every time I bring the subject up to people I tell them all
about it, and (now that I can walk) when I go to CVS, I tell customers in
the store about it too. Lucky for us, we now have the internet age, and
the red ribbed hot water bottles that you should buy are available online,
after a few hours of shopping for them with vague search terms I have
found them.

--