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Dual sump pumps-check valve?
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Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 10:10:32 AM11/20/11
to
In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
valve on the backup? I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
backup pump shut off.
Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
make sense to install one on the backup pump?
This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
valve on the backup? I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
backup pump shut off.
Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
make sense to install one on the backup pump?
This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
Stormin Mormon
Nov 20, 2011, 10:15:13 AM11/20/11
to
Check valve is useful, if there is a risk that water will
flow back from the "where ever" into the sump crock. If the
backup pump discharge outlet isn't in water, it's not likely
to flow back.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jab599$h2e$1...@dont-email.me...
flow back from the "where ever" into the sump crock. If the
backup pump discharge outlet isn't in water, it's not likely
to flow back.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jab599$h2e$1...@dont-email.me...
Andy
Nov 20, 2011, 10:18:00 AM11/20/11
to
I would think that if the water level get high enough to fill the
second
pump (as a result of the higher float switch), that a check valve
wouldn't
be necessary.....
` The check balve is merely to keep the pump primed, and if the pump
is flooded, a check shouldn't be necessary unless it clicks on before
the
water level is high enough...... HOWEVER, that being said, what is
the
nature of the second sump pump.?? Is it a submersible, or is it a
pump
that is mounted above the water level ?? That would be a problem....
and
I would use a check valve....
I will read with interest the advice given here by others. Lots
of good
info to be gleanded from this group...
Andy in Eureka, Texas P.E.
Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 10:22:32 AM11/20/11
to
"Andy" <jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:87142686-32cf-420a...@m7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
set on each.
Stormin Mormon
Nov 20, 2011, 10:25:55 AM11/20/11
to
I thought the check valve is to keep water from coming back
in (backwards) via the discharge pipe. I think you may be
thinking about a foot valve, in a drilled well?
in (backwards) via the discharge pipe. I think you may be
thinking about a foot valve, in a drilled well?
"Andy" <jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:87142686-32cf-420a...@m7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
news:87142686-32cf-420a...@m7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 20, 2011, 10:27:31 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 10:18 am, Andy <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 9:10 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> > primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> > pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> > turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> > about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> > onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> > So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
> > valve on the backup? I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
> > the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
> > backup pump shut off.
>
> > Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
> > make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> > This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
> > noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
> > float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
>
> Andy comments:
>
> I would think that if the water level get high enough to fill the
> second
> pump (as a result of the higher float switch), that a check valve
> wouldn't
> be necessary.....
> ` The check balve is merely to keep the pump primed,
Sump pumps are all self-priming out of necessity. And
> On Nov 20, 9:10 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> > primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> > pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> > turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> > about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> > onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> > So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
> > valve on the backup? I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
> > the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
> > backup pump shut off.
>
> > Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
> > make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> > This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
> > noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
> > float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
>
> Andy comments:
>
> I would think that if the water level get high enough to fill the
> second
> pump (as a result of the higher float switch), that a check valve
> wouldn't
> be necessary.....
> ` The check balve is merely to keep the pump primed,
a check valve will not keep it primed anyway. The water
between the pump and the valve drains back into the
sump pit. The valve is there to keept the rest of the water,
which could be substantial depending on how the piping
is run, from draining back into the pit. If it does, the pump
is just re-pumping that same amount of water that drains
back each cycle.
and if the pump
> is flooded, a check shouldn't be necessary unless it clicks on before
> the
> water level is high enough...... HOWEVER, that being said, what is
> the
> nature of the second sump pump.?? Is it a submersible, or is it a
> pump
> that is mounted above the water level ??
above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
That would be a problem....
> and
> I would use a check valve....
>
> I will read with interest the advice given here by others. Lots
> of good
> info to be gleanded from this group...
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 20, 2011, 10:23:15 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 10:10 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
> valve on the backup?
One reason I can think of is to save a few $$, because the
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
> valve on the backup?
backup will rarely, if ever, be used. And the only downside
to not having a check valve is that some water will run back
in. For an installation where the pump only runs occasionally,
it's a backup, etc and not that much water runs back in, it's
not an issue.
Other reason would be if water that would be held in place
by a check valve is subject to freezing. Then it would be
relying on water being able to drain back to prevent freezing.
I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
> the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
> backup pump shut off.
pipe there is that is left filled with water when the pump
shuts off. In your case it sounds like it's substantial amount.
>
> Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
> make sense to install one on the backup pump?
Height isn't an issue. Usually it's put above the sump pit
for convenience. If a lot of water flows back, then yes
it would make sense to put one in to keep the pump from
going on and off more frequently.
Andy
Nov 20, 2011, 10:34:37 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 9:27 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
> How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> That would be a problem....
Andy replies:
None. But , based on the post, I wasn't sure the OP was referring
to a "sump pump", or a "pump that was used to pump out a sump".
People in different areas sometimes have different terminologies..
JoeJ replied that they were both submersible, hence, I can't see why
a check valve would be needed for either....
I agree with your post...but I can't see why you replied to "me"
rather
than Joe J...
Andy in Eureka, Texas PE
wrote:
> How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> That would be a problem....
None. But , based on the post, I wasn't sure the OP was referring
to a "sump pump", or a "pump that was used to pump out a sump".
People in different areas sometimes have different terminologies..
JoeJ replied that they were both submersible, hence, I can't see why
a check valve would be needed for either....
I agree with your post...but I can't see why you replied to "me"
rather
than Joe J...
Andy in Eureka, Texas PE
Andy
Nov 20, 2011, 10:39:12 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 9:25 am, "Stormin Mormon"
A question of terminology..... Both do the same thing --- a valve
that
allows matter to flow in one direction.
In my experience, a "foot" valve is often mated with a screen and a
"check" valve is simply inserted in-line...
If JoeJ's pumps are both submersible, I can't see where either
could
be used..... Perhaps I am missing something, since the submersibles
I have used don't have a convenient place to add either one......
I'd be happy to get information on my error.....
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I thought the check valve is to keep water from coming back
> in (backwards) via the discharge pipe. I think you may be
> thinking about a foot valve, in a drilled well?
>
Andy answers:
> I thought the check valve is to keep water from coming back
> in (backwards) via the discharge pipe. I think you may be
> thinking about a foot valve, in a drilled well?
>
A question of terminology..... Both do the same thing --- a valve
that
allows matter to flow in one direction.
In my experience, a "foot" valve is often mated with a screen and a
"check" valve is simply inserted in-line...
If JoeJ's pumps are both submersible, I can't see where either
could
be used..... Perhaps I am missing something, since the submersibles
I have used don't have a convenient place to add either one......
I'd be happy to get information on my error.....
Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 10:43:57 AM11/20/11
to
news:ef182d7d-ee87-4b77...@j10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Still trying to stay on topic. Both are submersible, primary has a check
valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
don &/or Lucille
Nov 20, 2011, 10:46:08 AM11/20/11
to
in a typical installation there would be a union beneath the check valve for
easy replacement and trader it it on the head the check valve prevents the
discharge water in the pipe from refilling the sump
easy replacement and trader it it on the head the check valve prevents the
discharge water in the pipe from refilling the sump
Tony Hwang
Nov 20, 2011, 10:51:08 AM11/20/11
to
Our house does not have water problem but I installed check valve in the
main sewer line. It is good safety feature. Very unlikely but worst case
your two pump can fight each other.
Vic Smith
Nov 20, 2011, 11:00:25 AM11/20/11
to
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:43:57 -0600, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net>
wrote:
>
>Still trying to stay on topic. Both are submersible, primary has a check
>valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
>no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
>outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
>back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
>theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
>and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
>So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
Put a check valve on it. Cheap and easy.
I have 2 pumps and put a check valve on each.
--Vic
wrote:
>
>Still trying to stay on topic. Both are submersible, primary has a check
>valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
>no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
>outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
>back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
>theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
>and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
>So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
I have 2 pumps and put a check valve on each.
--Vic
Andy
Nov 20, 2011, 11:03:26 AM11/20/11
to
Andy comments:
Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
However, if your "primary" pump didn't work, you should get it
fixed.... As a suggestion, the problem may actually be in the
float switch (sold at Home Depot as a separate item for about $30
USD)..
and is easy to replace..... generally.... The float switch fails more
than the pump does, in my experience....... which may not be as
great on this issue as other posters..
I like the idea of a backup..... especially if a small flood will
cause you serious difficulty or loss... But I'd have both systems
working ..... That's just me, tho....And I really like the "separate
breaker" approach...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
However, if your "primary" pump didn't work, you should get it
fixed.... As a suggestion, the problem may actually be in the
float switch (sold at Home Depot as a separate item for about $30
USD)..
and is easy to replace..... generally.... The float switch fails more
than the pump does, in my experience....... which may not be as
great on this issue as other posters..
I like the idea of a backup..... especially if a small flood will
cause you serious difficulty or loss... But I'd have both systems
working ..... That's just me, tho....And I really like the "separate
breaker" approach...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Art Todesco
Nov 20, 2011, 11:06:54 AM11/20/11
to
years. Both pumps were submersible and one was battery operated. The
only problem I had was with the battery pump. Sometimes, the head of
water would keep the battery pump from actually pumping, even though it
was running. The instructions on the Basement Watchdog battery pump say
to drill a small hole in the pipe just above where it connects to the
pump. I did it, and it worked. The best sump system is what I have now
... gravity. All perimeter tiles are just going to the side of the
mountain. If, for some reason, water should get in the basement (a walk
out on one side) just open the door.
Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 11:12:52 AM11/20/11
to
news:5921318a-40fb-43e7...@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Maybe I'm not being clear. I replaced the float on the primary and I'm back
to having two operational pumps. A primary and a backup that kicks in if
the primary should fail. Both are submersible. If the primary fails and
the secondary needs to run, the water in the pipe seems to drain back down
and refill a portion of the crock because there is no check valve to prevent
the water from draining back down.
My original question was if there was a valid reason for not having a
check-valve in that pipe. From the answers, it doesn't appear to be any
reason to not have one and I can buy one for $10 and install it myself.
to having two operational pumps. A primary and a backup that kicks in if
the primary should fail. Both are submersible. If the primary fails and
the secondary needs to run, the water in the pipe seems to drain back down
and refill a portion of the crock because there is no check valve to prevent
the water from draining back down.
My original question was if there was a valid reason for not having a
check-valve in that pipe. From the answers, it doesn't appear to be any
reason to not have one and I can buy one for $10 and install it myself.
Vic Smith
Nov 20, 2011, 11:14:14 AM11/20/11
to
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:51:08 -0700, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:
>Our house does not have water problem but I installed check valve in the
>main sewer line. It is good safety feature. Very unlikely but worst case
>your two pump can fight each other.
Think he said they are on separate discharge lines, so they won't
fight. The check valve will prevent pumping the same water twice.
When I added the second pump to my pit with a Y I brain-farted with
the check valves and had to redo it.
One pump would backfeed through the other.
Putting a check valve over each pump discharge fixed it.
--Vic
wrote:
>Our house does not have water problem but I installed check valve in the
>main sewer line. It is good safety feature. Very unlikely but worst case
>your two pump can fight each other.
fight. The check valve will prevent pumping the same water twice.
When I added the second pump to my pit with a Y I brain-farted with
the check valves and had to redo it.
One pump would backfeed through the other.
Putting a check valve over each pump discharge fixed it.
--Vic
Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 11:17:57 AM11/20/11
to
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bb9ic717kmgchp6e9...@4ax.com...
the side of the house and on the lawn.
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 20, 2011, 11:23:48 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 11:06 am, Art Todesco <actode...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 10:43 AM, Joe J wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Andy" <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> On 11/20/2011 10:43 AM, Joe J wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
put a small hole in the pipe too. Without a check valve, as
water rises in the pit, it will naturally rise inside the discharge
line as well, pushing air slowly out the discharge line. With
a check valve, the air is blocked, so you could have the portion
of the discharge line from the check valve down to the pump
itself filled with air. When the pump starts, it's possible the
line will remain air-locked. With the tiny hole the discharge
line will have water in it to the same level as the pit.
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 20, 2011, 11:31:29 AM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 10:34 am, Andy <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 9:27 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> > How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> > above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> > sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> > That would be a problem....
>
> Andy replies:
> None. But , based on the post, I wasn't sure the OP was referring
> to a "sump pump", or a "pump that was used to pump out a sump".
"Dual sump pumps - check valve?
> On Nov 20, 9:27 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> > How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> > above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> > sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> > That would be a problem....
>
> Andy replies:
> None. But , based on the post, I wasn't sure the OP was referring
> to a "sump pump", or a "pump that was used to pump out a sump".
In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. "
>
> People in different areas sometimes have different terminologies..
>
> JoeJ replied that they were both submersible, hence, I can't see why
> a check valve would be needed for either....
" I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after
the backup pump shut off. "
That's why.
the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after
the backup pump shut off. "
>
> I agree with your post...but I can't see why you replied to "me"
> rather
> than Joe J...
Colbyt
Nov 20, 2011, 11:36:51 AM11/20/11
to
news:5921318a-40fb-43e7...@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Andy
The only purpose of a check valve on a submersible pump is to prevent the
backflow which can cause the pump to cycle repeatedly.
The water in the pipe refills the basin prematurely. The pump kicks on,
shuts off and the whole process repeats again. Over time this can cause
premature pump failure. I once watched one with a small basin pump the same
water every 2 minutes. I added a check valve that very day.
For Joe: Add a check valve. Be sure to read the instructions. You need to
drill a 1/4" hole in the pipe near where it connects to the pump to allow
the water between the pump and the valve to drain.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com
The only purpose of a check valve on a submersible pump is to prevent the
backflow which can cause the pump to cycle repeatedly.
The water in the pipe refills the basin prematurely. The pump kicks on,
shuts off and the whole process repeats again. Over time this can cause
premature pump failure. I once watched one with a small basin pump the same
water every 2 minutes. I added a check valve that very day.
For Joe: Add a check valve. Be sure to read the instructions. You need to
drill a 1/4" hole in the pipe near where it connects to the pump to allow
the water between the pump and the valve to drain.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com
Stormin Mormon
Nov 20, 2011, 12:05:36 PM11/20/11
to
Would this hole be above the water line, or below?
"Colbyt" <colbyt@-SPAMBLOCK-lexkyweb.com> wrote in message
news:RcmdneNvke0ksVTT...@insightbb.com...
"Colbyt" <colbyt@-SPAMBLOCK-lexkyweb.com> wrote in message
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Ed Pawlowski
Nov 20, 2011, 12:41:25 PM11/20/11
to
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:27:31 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
>above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
>sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
The three we have for a pit at work? They are actually part of a
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
>above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
>sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
water system and pump the water from a pit to a cooling tower and are
mounted at ground level. Thus the need for a foot valve. They draw
from a pit that is about 5' deep and pump to the tower that sits about
20' above ground level outside the building.
OTOH, you are correct about the typical sump pump application used in
basements. They are best right inside the pit and operated with a
float switch.
We do have a sump pump that has a check valve in line. The check is
needed because it is connected to a common line that other pumps are
connected to that go to the sewer. This is more in line with the
setup the OP is talking about. With no check valve, water will go
back to the other pump in line. IMO, the OP needs a check valve in
line after the pump.
Ed Pawlowski
Nov 20, 2011, 12:49:11 PM11/20/11
to
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:03:26 -0800 (PST), Andy
<jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Andy comments:
>
> Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
>submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
>partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
>valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
>levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
>down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
>if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
I think you are right for the wrong reason. The two pumps discharge
<jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Andy comments:
>
> Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
>submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
>partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
>valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
>levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
>down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
>if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
to separate lines so no check valve is needed. If the pumps went to a
common line, the check valve would be needed to prevent backflow into
the other line and back to the crock.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:14:01 PM11/20/11
to
is of sufficient size, then you can get away without a check. But
having said that, it is standard procedure to put a check on the pump
down low. (like screwed into the pump, then the discharge pipe
connnects to it.)
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:15:32 PM11/20/11
to
sump pump.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:18:22 PM11/20/11
to
riser pipe from dumping back into the sump. And no, a foot valve is not
the same as a checkvalve on the discharge side. A foot valve is used on
the suction side and IS in fact there to keep the pump primed, in the
case of a well pump (or any other pump for that matter) that is above
the water line.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:19:59 PM11/20/11
to
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:21:04 PM11/20/11
to
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:22:12 PM11/20/11
to
On 11/20/2011 9:05 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Would this hole be above the water line, or below?
>
it's a moot point. It's not necessary. But they're saying between the
> Would this hole be above the water line, or below?
>
pump and check. So it would invariably be below the water line if
someone insisted upon doing it.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:22:59 PM11/20/11
to
ONLY pump he had.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:24:05 PM11/20/11
to
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:25:55 PM11/20/11
to
On 11/20/2011 7:23 AM, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
> backup will rarely, if ever, be used. And the only downside
> to not having a check valve is that some water will run back
> in. For an installation where the pump only runs occasionally,
> it's a backup, etc and not that much water runs back in, it's
> not an issue.
>
> Other reason would be if water that would be held in place
> by a check valve is subject to freezing. Then it would be
> relying on water being able to drain back to prevent freezing.
> pipe there is that is left filled with water when the pump
> shuts off. In your case it sounds like it's substantial amount.
> Height isn't an issue. Usually it's put above the sump pit
> for convenience. If a lot of water flows back, then yes
> it would make sense to put one in to keep the pump from
> going on and off more frequently.
Then the pvc attached to the checkvalve.
> On Nov 20, 10:10 am, "Joe J"<joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
>> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
>> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
>> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
>> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
>> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>>
>> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
>> valve on the backup?
>
> One reason I can think of is to save a few $$, because the
>> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
>> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
>> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
>> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
>> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
>> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>>
>> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a check
>> valve on the backup?
>
> backup will rarely, if ever, be used. And the only downside
> to not having a check valve is that some water will run back
> in. For an installation where the pump only runs occasionally,
> it's a backup, etc and not that much water runs back in, it's
> not an issue.
>
> Other reason would be if water that would be held in place
> by a check valve is subject to freezing. Then it would be
> relying on water being able to drain back to prevent freezing.
>
>
> I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
>> the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
>> backup pump shut off.
>
> How much water runs back in is determined by how much
>
> I had a failure on the primary pump and it seemed half
>> the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining back after the
>> backup pump shut off.
>
> pipe there is that is left filled with water when the pump
> shuts off. In your case it sounds like it's substantial amount.
>
>
>
>>
>> Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
>> make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> The closer it is to the pump the less water will flow back.
>
>
>>
>> Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and wouldn't it
>> make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> Height isn't an issue. Usually it's put above the sump pit
> for convenience. If a lot of water flows back, then yes
> it would make sense to put one in to keep the pump from
> going on and off more frequently.
>
>
>>
>> This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
>> noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
>> float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
>
ACTUALLY, the are usually threaded and screwed directly into the pump.
>
>>
>> This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
>> noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail, the
>> float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
>
Then the pvc attached to the checkvalve.
Steve Barker
Nov 20, 2011, 4:28:59 PM11/20/11
to
On 11/20/2011 7:10 AM, Joe J wrote:
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a
> underground pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a
> little higher and turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch
> pvc pipe that rises about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading
> outside and draining onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a
> check valve on the backup? I had a failure on the primary pump and it
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a
> underground pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a
> little higher and turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch
> pvc pipe that rises about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading
> outside and draining onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
> So here are the questions...Is there a valid reason for not having a
> seemed half the crock was refilled by the remnants in the pipe draining
> back after the backup pump shut off.
>
> back after the backup pump shut off.
>
> Is there a standard height a check valve should be installed and
> wouldn't it make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> wouldn't it make sense to install one on the backup pump?
>
> This was the arrangement when we bought the house in March and I only
> noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail,
> the float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
here's what you are looking for:
> noticed this after the primary failed. Actually, the pump didn't fail,
> the float switch did. $30 for a replacement.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/450879-sump_pump_check_valve_with_reducer_boot.html#.Tslw7T1Cq0s
Roanin
Nov 20, 2011, 2:51:49 PM11/20/11
to
"Steve Barker" <ichase...@notgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2p-dnRWGq5W5zlTT...@giganews.com...
than 1/4" , but they seem to think it is important. When I was having a
problem the first thing they asked me was if the hole was plugged.
R
Joe
Nov 20, 2011, 2:59:48 PM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 9:10 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer.
>snip<
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer.
In many communities in the here Midwest any sump water, eaves drainage
or whatever is illegal to discharge into a municipal sewer. Seems like
a good common sense ordinance to me. Have you checked your local codes
to be sure your discharge is compliant? If not, your unchecked line is
redundant.
Joe
Joe J
Nov 20, 2011, 5:09:53 PM11/20/11
to
news:2p-dnRCGq5ViyVTT...@giganews.com...
Exactly the type of valve I was talking about installing. $9 at Home Depot.
After sorting through all the responses, I think I'll just go ahead and cut
the pvc pipe on the backup and install one.
After sorting through all the responses, I think I'll just go ahead and cut
the pvc pipe on the backup and install one.
DD_BobK
Nov 20, 2011, 5:23:47 PM11/20/11
to
On Nov 20, 1:21 pm, Steve Barker <ichasetra...@notgmail.com> wrote:
> the 1/4" hole is a wives tale. Not necessary.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
As Steve B stated, that 1/4" is unnecessary.
> the 1/4" hole is a wives tale. Not necessary.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
It's not like the internals of the pump will prevent that bit of water
between the pump and the check valve.
Drilling a hole in that location will allow a small amount of the
pumped water to "short circuit" and merely recycle in the sump,
wasting a bit of the pump's usable output.
General comment to group (not to Steve B):
I thought the "well" in which water collected was the "sump" and the
pump tasked with emptying the sump was the "sump pump"?
What is this "crock thing" being talked about?
I thought crocks were for sauerkraut, sourdough starter, pickles,
cheese, yogurt, etc and of course s...t.
Colbyt
Nov 20, 2011, 5:47:17 PM11/20/11
to
news:2p-dnRWGq5W5zlTT...@giganews.com...
It may not be necessary. But one thing I always do the first time I install
something is RTFM. Or at least look at the pictures.
Both the pump and the valve maker recommend the hole. I never throw
anything anyway so I have the printed instructions somewhere.
The Ace website indicates that their pump have a built in vent hole so it
may not be necessary for their product. Older pumps may not have the built
in hole. If you don't know for sure the small hole hurts nothing.
http://www.waterace.com/pdf/R3S%20R3V%20R5S-1%20and%20R2SA%20Sump%20Pumps%20Manual.pdf
something is RTFM. Or at least look at the pictures.
Both the pump and the valve maker recommend the hole. I never throw
anything anyway so I have the printed instructions somewhere.
The Ace website indicates that their pump have a built in vent hole so it
may not be necessary for their product. Older pumps may not have the built
in hole. If you don't know for sure the small hole hurts nothing.
http://www.waterace.com/pdf/R3S%20R3V%20R5S-1%20and%20R2SA%20Sump%20Pumps%20Manual.pdf
Stormin Mormon
Nov 20, 2011, 9:52:46 PM11/20/11
to
I remember the purpose of the hole, is to let the water out
of the pipe between the sump and the check. So, if the hole
is below water, it seems like it wouldn't let air in, so the
pipe can drain.
of the pipe between the sump and the check. So, if the hole
is below water, it seems like it wouldn't let air in, so the
pipe can drain.
"Steve Barker" <ichase...@notgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2p-dnRSGq5X1zlTT...@giganews.com...
Roanin
Nov 20, 2011, 10:15:38 PM11/20/11
to
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jaceg0$m15$1...@dont-email.me...
DO I NEED TO DRILL THE 3/16" VENT HOLE?
If a check valve is being used we recommend drilling a vent hole. This hole
is located in the basin between the pump and check valve usually a few
inches above the pump "on" level but below the pit cover. The vent hole will
prevent air locking from occurring.
R
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
Nov 21, 2011, 12:24:08 AM11/21/11
to
On Nov 20, 10:12 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> "Andy" <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> to having two operational pumps. A primary and a backup that kicks in if
> the primary should fail. Both are submersible. If the primary fails and
> the secondary needs to run, the water in the pipe seems to drain back down
> and refill a portion of the crock because there is no check valve to prevent
> the water from draining back down.
> My original question was if there was a valid reason for not having a
> check-valve in that pipe. From the answers, it doesn't appear to be any
> reason to not have one and I can buy one for $10 and install it myself.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Several commenters don't have a clue. Yes, you should put a check
valve in the backup system since there is a lot of water stored in the
vertical pipe above the pump that you don't want to have running back
into the sump, when the pump is called upon in a failure of the first
pump. IT has nothing to do with priming or foot valves or anything
except what you originally surmised. The horizontal output pipe
should be sloped downward going out so that all water in the
horizontal pipe does drain out after the pump stops, especially if you
are in an area with freezing temperatures.
> "Andy" <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5921318a-40fb-43e7...@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andy comments:
>
> > Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
> > submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
> > partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
> > valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
> > levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
> > down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
> > if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
>
> > However, if your "primary" pump didn't work, you should get it
> > fixed.... As a suggestion, the problem may actually be in the
> > float switch (sold at Home Depot as a separate item for about $30
> > USD)..
> > and is easy to replace..... generally.... The float switch fails more
> > than the pump does, in my experience....... which may not be as
> > great on this issue as other posters..
>
> > I like the idea of a backup..... especially if a small flood will
> > cause you serious difficulty or loss... But I'd have both systems
> > working ..... That's just me, tho....And I really like the "separate
> > breaker" approach...
>
> > Andy in Eureka, Texas
>
> Maybe I'm not being clear. I replaced the float on the primary and I'm back
> news:5921318a-40fb-43e7...@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andy comments:
>
> > Joe, I'm sorry, but I really don't understand.. If both pumps are
> > submersible, --- by that I mean the type that, when operational, is
> > partially submerged in the sump, I don't see the need for a check
> > valve in either.... As long as the float switches are above the pump
> > levels, the pump will be flooded.. and primed.... Water flowing back
> > down a discharge pipe will flow out to the ambient water level, which,
> > if the pump is still submerged, shouldn't matter.....
>
> > However, if your "primary" pump didn't work, you should get it
> > fixed.... As a suggestion, the problem may actually be in the
> > float switch (sold at Home Depot as a separate item for about $30
> > USD)..
> > and is easy to replace..... generally.... The float switch fails more
> > than the pump does, in my experience....... which may not be as
> > great on this issue as other posters..
>
> > I like the idea of a backup..... especially if a small flood will
> > cause you serious difficulty or loss... But I'd have both systems
> > working ..... That's just me, tho....And I really like the "separate
> > breaker" approach...
>
> > Andy in Eureka, Texas
>
> to having two operational pumps. A primary and a backup that kicks in if
> the primary should fail. Both are submersible. If the primary fails and
> the secondary needs to run, the water in the pipe seems to drain back down
> and refill a portion of the crock because there is no check valve to prevent
> the water from draining back down.
> My original question was if there was a valid reason for not having a
> check-valve in that pipe. From the answers, it doesn't appear to be any
> reason to not have one and I can buy one for $10 and install it myself.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Several commenters don't have a clue. Yes, you should put a check
valve in the backup system since there is a lot of water stored in the
vertical pipe above the pump that you don't want to have running back
into the sump, when the pump is called upon in a failure of the first
pump. IT has nothing to do with priming or foot valves or anything
except what you originally surmised. The horizontal output pipe
should be sloped downward going out so that all water in the
horizontal pipe does drain out after the pump stops, especially if you
are in an area with freezing temperatures.
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 21, 2011, 7:44:59 AM11/21/11
to
On Nov 20, 4:24 pm, Steve Barker <ichasetra...@notgmail.com> wrote:
> remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -
to sump pump manufacturers that call for putting that
small hole in the discharge line. I just installed one last
week that also called for the hole in the instructions.
As I already explained, the air in the pipe comes from the water
between the check valve and the sump pit water level
draining back into the sump when the pump shuts off.
The check valve only prevents the water in the rest of
the discharge line from flowing back.
So now you have a section of pipe full of air. Worst
case, if the basin is dry, there is no water at all and
it's initially all air in the pump and pipe. As the
sump basin fills, without a check valve that air would
be displaced and the pump and pipe would fill with
water too. The water level inside and outside the
discharge line would be equal. With the check valve,
that air remains trapped and it can stay there,
air locking the pump.
Meaning the pump impeller remains mostly or
entirely surrounded by air, unable to move water.
That is the purpose for drilling a small hole in the
discharge line near where it connects with the pump.
With the hole, the water level inside the pump and pipe
will be equal to the water level outside. And that way
you are sure that the pump cannot airlock.
>
> - Show quoted text -
You claim it's BS, yet others have given cites here back
> - Show quoted text -
to sump pump manufacturers that call for putting that
small hole in the discharge line. I just installed one last
week that also called for the hole in the instructions.
As I already explained, the air in the pipe comes from the water
between the check valve and the sump pit water level
draining back into the sump when the pump shuts off.
The check valve only prevents the water in the rest of
the discharge line from flowing back.
So now you have a section of pipe full of air. Worst
case, if the basin is dry, there is no water at all and
it's initially all air in the pump and pipe. As the
sump basin fills, without a check valve that air would
be displaced and the pump and pipe would fill with
water too. The water level inside and outside the
discharge line would be equal. With the check valve,
that air remains trapped and it can stay there,
air locking the pump.
Meaning the pump impeller remains mostly or
entirely surrounded by air, unable to move water.
That is the purpose for drilling a small hole in the
discharge line near where it connects with the pump.
With the hole, the water level inside the pump and pipe
will be equal to the water level outside. And that way
you are sure that the pump cannot airlock.
tra...@optonline.net
Nov 21, 2011, 7:51:20 AM11/21/11
to
On Nov 20, 12:41 pm, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:27:31 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"
a home repair group and nothing indicated there was anything
exceptional about the situation. And everything since then shows
that was correct.
>
> We do have a sump pump that has a check valve in line. The check is
> needed because it is connected to a common line that other pumps are
> connected to that go to the sewer. This is more in line with the
> setup the OP is talking about. With no check valve, water will go
> back to the other pump in line. IMO, the OP needs a check valve in
> line after the pump.
I'd probably put one in too. I would definitely put one in if it were
the
main pump. Being a backup, the fact that some of the water will
flow back in isn't as much of an issue because it's not going to
be happening frequently, only if the main pump fails. So, if the
pump cycles a bit more, it's not a big deal.
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:27:31 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"
>
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> >above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> >sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> The three we have for a pit at work? They are actually part of a
> water system and pump the water from a pit to a cooling tower and are
> mounted at ground level. Thus the need for a foot valve. They draw
> from a pit that is about 5' deep and pump to the tower that sits about
> 20' above ground level outside the building.
> OTOH, you are correct about the typical sump pump application used in
> basements. They are best right inside the pit and operated with a
> float switch.
Exactly and I figured that is what we are talking about since it's
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >How many sump pumps have you seen that are mounted
> >above the water level? Every single one I've ever seen
> >sits in the sump pump pit, in the water.
>
> The three we have for a pit at work? They are actually part of a
> water system and pump the water from a pit to a cooling tower and are
> mounted at ground level. Thus the need for a foot valve. They draw
> from a pit that is about 5' deep and pump to the tower that sits about
> 20' above ground level outside the building.
> OTOH, you are correct about the typical sump pump application used in
> basements. They are best right inside the pit and operated with a
> float switch.
a home repair group and nothing indicated there was anything
exceptional about the situation. And everything since then shows
that was correct.
>
> We do have a sump pump that has a check valve in line. The check is
> needed because it is connected to a common line that other pumps are
> connected to that go to the sewer. This is more in line with the
> setup the OP is talking about. With no check valve, water will go
> back to the other pump in line. IMO, the OP needs a check valve in
> line after the pump.
the
main pump. Being a backup, the fact that some of the water will
flow back in isn't as much of an issue because it's not going to
be happening frequently, only if the main pump fails. So, if the
pump cycles a bit more, it's not a big deal.
Vic Smith
Nov 21, 2011, 9:22:40 AM11/21/11
to
What you say all makes sense.
So I won't argue against the pump experts, just make a few comments.
If a pump is primed, there is no air at the impeller.
If the sump is dry the pump isn't primed and there's air around the
impeller.
Where does the air come from?
All the water has drained out, simple as that.
The water between the pump and the check valve gurgles down, so the
pump is full of air.
As the sump fills, the pump head fills with water, priming it.
Air in the discharge line can stop the water from filling the pump
head if the air compresses because it can't escape.
Then you have pump airlock if the pump goes on.
Here's where it gets a little tricky, and what fooled me.
How much head pressure does it take to overcome the air blockage?
I've got 2 pumps with check valves and no drilled relief holes.
Pumps always work fine.
Now some pumps have that relief hole built into the head.
I don't know if mine do or not.
The check valves I put in have light rubber flaps.
Wouldn't take much pressure on the underside to unseat them.
Then the pump head will prime.
Back to head pressure.
Some pumps kick on before there's much head pressure, others wait
until there's more water in the sump.
A float switch can be set to adjust that.
Both of my pumps have diaphragm switches with no adjustment.
I've noticed they don't go on until almost the entire pump is covered
with water.
Anyway, though my pumps aren't getting airlocked, what if the rubber
on the check valve take a real good seat, and sticks a bit?
I could get airlock.
So when I get around to it I'm going to drill the relief holes.
--Vic
Harry K
Nov 21, 2011, 9:40:27 AM11/21/11
to
On Nov 20, 1:24 pm, Steve Barker <ichasetra...@notgmail.com> wrote:
to push water up the pipe, compress the air which will push open the
checkvalve, push on he water above the checkvalve and the entire
system works just as it would as if there were no air in the system.
As long as the check is above the pump rotor it cannot air lock.
Harry K
> remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
And why would it "air lock" even without the hole? The pump is going
>
> - Show quoted text -
to push water up the pipe, compress the air which will push open the
checkvalve, push on he water above the checkvalve and the entire
system works just as it would as if there were no air in the system.
As long as the check is above the pump rotor it cannot air lock.
Harry K
Harry K
Nov 21, 2011, 9:44:44 AM11/21/11
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On Nov 21, 4:44 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> you are sure that the pump cannot airlock.- Hide quoted text -
the impellor level it could air lock.
I also drill the holes when the manual calls for it.
Harry K
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ah! The light dawns. You are correct. If the sump ever drys below
> - Show quoted text -
the impellor level it could air lock.
I also drill the holes when the manual calls for it.
Harry K
bob haller
Nov 21, 2011, 9:59:22 AM11/21/11
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On Nov 20, 10:10 am, "Joe J" <joe...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
no one mentioned the obvious, sump pumps should never drain to a
> In the same crock I have two sump pumps on two separate breakers. The
> primary pump has a check valve installed and it drains into a underground
> pipe that runs to a sewer. The backup pump float is set a little higher and
> turns on if the primary doesn't. One and a half inch pvc pipe that rises
> about 8 ft and does a 90 degree turn before heading outside and draining
> onto the lawn and it has no check valve.
>
sewer. in heavy rains it can cause flooding not only of your basement
but the sewer lines in the neighborhood and sewer plant..... too many
such connections..... equals flood:(
having seen first hand sewer water gushing up out of a basement floor
drain its no fun....
if the sump pumps check valve sticks open under heavy rain the sewer
crud could fill and contaminate your interior french drain:( might
require digging it up to replace it:(
everyone with a sump pump should check to see if theres ANY WAY to
drain the sump to daylight! far too many people want to avoid digging
and install a pump when just a drain line would work fine
bob haller
Nov 21, 2011, 11:27:17 AM11/21/11
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The OP should consider what happens in a power failure........ power
failures are frequent with bad storms.
would flooding damage high value stuff, if so a backup power supply is
necessary...
failures are frequent with bad storms.
would flooding damage high value stuff, if so a backup power supply is
necessary...
Joe J
Nov 21, 2011, 3:23:19 PM11/21/11
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"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ed5e73e8-5c8f-442f...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
backup.
The primary pump runs directly underground to a storm water sewer basin at
the street. It also is the one with the check valve.
Steve Barker
Nov 21, 2011, 6:38:59 PM11/21/11
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times. The ones i have, have always had water in them 365 days a year.
I rekon i can see what you said happening in one that has dry times.
The Daring Dufas
Nov 21, 2011, 6:15:39 PM11/21/11
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On 11/20/2011 10:00 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
> I have 2 pumps and put a check valve on each.
>
> --Vic
The first correct response came from Vic, a check valve on each pump. ^_^
TDD
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:43:57 -0600, "Joe J"<joe...@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Still trying to stay on topic. Both are submersible, primary has a check
>> valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
>> no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
>> outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
>> back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
>> theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
>> and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
>> So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
>
> Put a check valve on it. Cheap and easy.
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Still trying to stay on topic. Both are submersible, primary has a check
>> valve that prevents the water from draining back into the crock. Backup has
>> no check valve and has at least 12 feet of 1.5" PVC before it reaches
>> outside. When that pump turns off, the contents of that 1.5" pipe drain
>> back into the crock and almost refill it. Yes it is just a backup and in
>> theory only runs if the primary fails, but in this case the primary did fail
>> and it didn't seem very economical to have it pumping the same water twice.
>> So, spend X dollars and install a check valve? I'll do it myself.
>
> I have 2 pumps and put a check valve on each.
>
> --Vic
The first correct response came from Vic, a check valve on each pump. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Nov 21, 2011, 6:27:44 PM11/21/11
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the pump sits in down in the sump pit. Often the bucket will
have holes or screen that will keep large debris from getting into
the pump.
TDD
bob haller
Nov 21, 2011, 10:03:58 PM11/21/11
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On Nov 21, 6:15 pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
wrote:
> TDD- Hide quoted text -
temperatures. the original homeowner may have intentially set it up to
drain the water back to the sump to prevent a frozen line
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
dont use a check valve if the line is exposed to freezing
> - Show quoted text -
temperatures. the original homeowner may have intentially set it up to
drain the water back to the sump to prevent a frozen line
The Daring Dufas
Nov 22, 2011, 1:50:56 AM11/22/11
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output line after the check valve which I install in an area that's
less likely to freeze. I'm in the Southeast and temps don't usually
fall so low that basement temps get down to freezing. If I was in the
North, I'm sure I'd have to be more cautious installing any sort of
drain line. We Southerners are sissies when it comes to cold weather. I
worked out in the Pacific for a year close to The Equator so I lived
and worked in shorts and a T shirt every day. When I came back to The
States I landed in Southern California during a cold snap where temps
fell into the 60's and I was freezing. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Nov 22, 2011, 2:13:42 AM11/22/11
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power needed. I actually have a customer who needs one of these pumps
because we often lose power here in the Southeast during heavy
thunderstorms and tornado weather.
http://www.basepump.com/Basepump.htm
TDD
bob haller
Nov 22, 2011, 9:51:23 AM11/22/11
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On Nov 22, 2:13 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
wrote:
if the person happens to be on a well a water powered one wouldnt help:
(
wrote:
(
The Daring Dufas
Nov 22, 2011, 5:53:58 PM11/22/11
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TDD
bob haller
Nov 22, 2011, 6:59:47 PM11/22/11
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On Nov 22, 5:53 pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
the discussion is for everyone.....
Joe J
Nov 23, 2011, 11:16:01 AM11/23/11
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news:355bd204-b322-4c53...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Now boys, fight nice!
Bought the check valve yesterday, ($8.90 at Fleet & Farm), installed this
morning.
Thanks for all the advice!
Bought the check valve yesterday, ($8.90 at Fleet & Farm), installed this
morning.
Thanks for all the advice!
The Daring Dufas
Nov 24, 2011, 1:57:28 AM11/24/11
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fight? o_O
TDD
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