Particle board under kitchen floor: Why? & How to remove it?
Doug Rudoff
While getting bids on possibly installing hardwood floors in my house
I found out that I have particle board beneath the vinyl in my
kitchen. Beneath the particle board I'm guessing is some older vinyl
(as there is in the hallway right next to the kitchen). Beneath the
vinyl is fir. The particle board seems to be normal practice as the
hardwood floor estimators knew it without looking (and I confirmed after I
pulled out my dishwasher to fix a leak).
Why is this done?
If I do get hardwood floors and install them in the kitchen I would
need to remove the particle board, not only so the hardwood planks
have something secure to attach to but also because there would be no
way to pull out the dishwasher with the extra height of the hardwod on
top of the particle board, and so there's no height difference in the
hardwood between the hallway and kitchen.
But my cabinets are on top of the particle board. Would it be possible
to cut the particle right at the edge of the cabinets and remove it so
the hardwood can be installed?
Any other thoughts on this?
Thanks.
--
Doug Rudoff
Seattle, WA
dou...@cyberspace.com
Tim Short
dou...@case.cyberspace.com (Doug Rudoff) wrote:
>Why is this done?
>Thanks.
>--
I am in the flooring business (3rd generation). I'll try to answer
your questions:
Particleboard is used because it is cheaper than plywood. In our area
(NC), it is not often used in wet area (kitchens, baths, ect.) because
of its susceptibility (sp?) to moisture-related problems. It does not
make a good subfloor for hardwood. It can be cut out from under the
cabinets. We do it all the time, but you may find it difficult to
find a flooring company that will perform this service. It is very
labor-intensive and time-consuming (therefore expensive). The
procedure is to cut as close to the cabinets as possible with a power
saw and then to sit on your rear and chisel the remainder out from
under the toekicks with wood chisels.
If you have other questions, feel free to e-mail me.
Guy Bartnick
On Mon, 19 May 1997 22:15:22 GMT, dou...@case.cyberspace.com (Doug
Rudoff) wrote:
>
>While getting bids on possibly installing hardwood floors in my house
>I found out that I have particle board beneath the vinyl in my
>kitchen. Beneath the particle board I'm guessing is some older vinyl
>(as there is in the hallway right next to the kitchen). Beneath the
>vinyl is fir. The particle board seems to be normal practice as the
>hardwood floor estimators knew it without looking (and I confirmed after I
>pulled out my dishwasher to fix a leak).
>
>Why is this done?
>
>If I do get hardwood floors and install them in the kitchen I would
>need to remove the particle board, not only so the hardwood planks
>have something secure to attach to but also because there would be no
>way to pull out the dishwasher with the extra height of the hardwod on
>top of the particle board, and so there's no height difference in the
>hardwood between the hallway and kitchen.
>
>But my cabinets are on top of the particle board. Would it be possible
>to cut the particle right at the edge of the cabinets and remove it so
>the hardwood can be installed?
>
>Any other thoughts on this?
>
>Thanks.
>--
>
>Doug Rudoff
>Seattle, WA
>dou...@cyberspace.com
is was a common practice ( 2 ply floor construction, 1/2 CDX
plywood covered with 5/8 particle board ) until the introduction
of 3/4 tongue and groove underlayment grade plywood or O.S.B.
single ply floor design. I would check the thickness of your
subfloor plywood before considering removal of the particle
board. I would also check the installation instructions on the
hardwood flooring you are considering as to how much of a
subfloor is required. Particle board removal would be very
difficult, it is probably nailed every 6 - 8 inches to the
plywood. Hope this gives you some points to consider.
***********************************************
Guy Bartnick representing Wickes Lumber Company
http://www.wickes.com
gbar...@wickes.com
R. Martin Caskey
On Tue, 20 May 1997, Tim Short wrote:
> ...It can be cut out from under the cabinets. We do it all the time,
> but you may find it difficult to find a flooring company that will
> perform this service. It is very labor-intensive and time-consuming
> (therefore expensive). The procedure is to cut as close to the cabinets
> as possible with a power saw and then to sit on your rear and chisel the
> remainder out from under the toekicks with wood chisels.
NOT so fast, Tim!
I believe Norm demonstrated a new power tool recently which will do the
job in a fraction of the time it would take you. I think it's put out by
Black & DeSears, and utilizes a series of carbide cutters connected to a
belt-driven chain relay system which attaches to your rear. Sort of like
a ditch-witch on its side. Cuts to within 1/2048th of an inch when the
cutters are sharp, and to within 8-10" after it's used for a few seconds.
There are several available options, one which includes a separate rear
to which to attach the tool in case yours goes numb. Another cuts under
kitchen sinks and usually misses any plumbing. The list price is
$457,234, but you can find them on the street for under $400,000. They
are a little cumbersome, but the good news is that RyoKita is coming out
with a portable model so you don't have to take your whole kitchen into
the machine shop any more. The portable model consists of a 12" x 16"
rubber mat, a wood chisel, a mallet and a can of cold Bud. (PLEASE do not
operate any tool, including your brain, while consuming alchohol!!)
:-)
Martin Caskey
Towson, Maryland
hojo...@pacbell.net
> Doug Rudoff wrote:
>
> While getting bids on possibly installing hardwood floors in my house
> I found out that I have particle board beneath the vinyl in my
> kitchen. Beneath the particle board I'm guessing is some older vinyl
> (as there is in the hallway right next to the kitchen). Beneath the
> vinyl is fir. The particle board seems to be normal practice as the
> hardwood floor estimators knew it without looking (and I confirmed after I
> pulled out my dishwasher to fix a leak).
>
> Why is this done?
Doug, I was told by several people (plumber, carpenter, etc.) that some
builders use particle board to save on costs. Unfortunately, if water
ever penetrates the tile (vinyl or wood), the particle board soaks up
the water and warps severely. I was advised that, if I ever decide to
re-tile my bathrooms or kitchen, I should use exterior grade plywood to
help in resisting moisture.
> If I do get hardwood floors and install them in the kitchen I would
> need to remove the particle board, not only so the hardwood planks
> have something secure to attach to but also because there would be no
> way to pull out the dishwasher with the extra height of the hardwod on
> top of the particle board, and so there's no height difference in the
> hardwood between the hallway and kitchen.
It would be worth it to get rid of as much of the particle board as you
can.
> But my cabinets are on top of the particle board. Would it be possible
> to cut the particle right at the edge of the cabinets and remove it so
> the hardwood can be installed?
>
You could do that. Your only other (obvious) option is to pull up the
cabinets, remove the board, and reinstall the cabinets.
Howard