How much heat to keep pipes from freezing
Metspitzer
(Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
this week.
In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
below freezing for more than a day.
She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
tra...@optonline.net
I'd just keep a hot water faucet open so just a trickle is running.
Probably more effective and not much money. A 100W bulb in the
middle of a room
isn't going to do much. You'd have to have more like 500W, one of
the little heaters from Walmart or similar to heat the room enough.
Must not be insulation in that wall either or it would take more to
freeze it.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:m12ki6hhl4o93mdr2...@4ax.com...
Do a google search for "pipe heating cables" and you'll find some useful
solutions.
Ed Pawlowski
The cost of repairing the pipes is probably more that any method of
prevention.
I'd use a small space heater on low, with a timer. Maybe run a half hour
every few hours.
You can also wrap the pipe (if exposed) in pipe heating tape. It will keep
it above freezing at minimal cost. Next is to leave the faucet running at a
tiny trickle. If there is a door to the utility room that opens to a heated
space, leave it open when cold.
notbob
> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
> the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
> is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
Google for "heat tape", used in severe cold climes to prevent pipes
from freezing. Buy as much or as little as you need. It's a "must"
where I live. Here's a start.
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52-299-heat-tape.aspx
nb
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
2 100 watt bulbs??? One close to the pipe in question??
Frank
I had a similar situation where pipes in a heated room ran overhead an
unheated room, a small storage area, and I also put a light bulb there
to no avail and pipes froze and broke. Only good solution is to use
heating tapes on pipe but access is not always good. In my case, I had
pipes rerun through heated space.
aemeijers
A thermostatically controlled heat tape on however much of the pipe you
can get to. For the part buried in the outside wall, next time it breaks
and you have to open up the wall anyway, reroute it, or at least
insulate the heck out of it.
My house in Louisiana has the WH in the garage storage shed. Shares a
wall with the house, and enough heat leaks through to keep it from
freezing. I wouldn't build things that way, but when the budget only
covers existing houses, what're ya gonna do?
--
aem sends...
Dean Hoffman
The old fashioned heat lamp or brooder lamp might help.
Examples here at Amazon: > http://tinyurl.com/2d2bje2
Bob F
Use a heater with a thermostat set to 35F or so.
Steve Barker
Get a couple of clamp on globe lamps with brooder bulbs in them and a
small box fan to move air around.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Metspitzer
wrote:
A timer is a very good idea. I was trying to think of something that
would only come on when the temp gets to 32. A timer seems like the
next best thing.
The WH is in her laundry room. It is part of the garage and no
insulation.
Metspitzer
I am not exactly sure of the story of how it happened but the entire
house is on a poured slab so nothing in the floor. It would have also
been a good idea to have the WH inside somewhere out of the way.
I could not believe it the first time she told me her hot water froze.
Jeff Thies
Actually more likely. "Pure" water has to super freeze and won't
crystalize until the mid 20's. The water heater adds a nuclei for the
water to freeze around.
I'd insulate the pipes and let the hot water drip inside somewhere.
Consider insulating the room. The water heater will add some heat,
probably more than that 100W bulb. 300 BTUs in an uninsulated room won't
be much. And consider the heat tape others have mentioned.
Jeff
Metspitzer
wrote:
Heat tape would be a good idea if it wasn't me that would have to
install it (I don't mind doing it, but my health is not best). She
has a brother in law in the same state that does her plumbing. I live
one state away.
JoeSpareBedroom
A smart 12 year old could install heat tape.
Metspitzer
Don't I wish I were still 12? How about a 52 year old liver
transplant patient with thrombocytopenia?
Sjouke Burry
Stormin Mormon
cardboard between the wall and the pipe. That will do
wonders to help keep the pipes from getting cold. It will
help separate the pipe from the cold cement blocks.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"notbob" <not...@notbob.invalid>
wrote in message news:8oui72...@mid.individual.net...
Stormin Mormon
the room stays over 35f. Ask at your nearby hardware store,
see what they have.
More work, you could tap the far end of the hot line (far
bath room for example). Put in a small circulator pump. Take
hot from the far end of the system, and pump it into the
cold supply of the WH.
Less work than that, you can foam wrap the hot line. Leave a
hot faucet dripping at the farthest part of the house. That
will pull a bit of hot water into the pipe.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Metspitzer" <kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:gegki65k298aod34i...@4ax.com...
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Inside takes valuable space. My WH is in the attic over the garage, where a
"bonus room" (FROG) would be. There aren't enough cold days to make it
worthwhile to devote expensive floor space for the WH. Your sister's freezes,
which is certainly a bad design, but it's generally a good bet to use
"cheaper" space.
>I could not believe it the first time she told me her hot water froze.
Hell, that was common in the NE. Idiots would route water (usually the
hydronic heat lines) in the cantilevered area of a "raised ranch".
Stormin Mormon
room? I think a combination of foam wrap and heat tape may
be your medium term answer.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Metspitzer" <kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message
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JoeSpareBedroom
So, find a smart 12 year old!
Stormin Mormon
Leaving a hot faucet dripping may be the work
around for now. check the local paper for
handy man? This can't be the only house with
a bad design like that.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Metspitzer" <kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message
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Heat tape would be a good idea if it wasn't me that would
Stormin Mormon
ipod at one end, a Gameboy at the other end,
and a couple cell phones stuck into each ear.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
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"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
message news:wSrWo.34308$sx4....@newsfe02.iad...
Stormin Mormon
any where? No way!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
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"Metspitzer" <kilo...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:dtiki6tkdu13j42e8...@4ax.com...
HeyBub
> Here in winter, most days it at least gets above freezing.
> (Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
> this week.
> In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
> with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
> water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
> 100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
> freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
> below freezing for more than a day.
> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
> the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
> is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
Gas water heater?
Perhaps venting the hot air into the room instead of out the roof will
supply enough heat...
Should only cost about $30 (for a CO detector). Adjusting the vent requires
only a sharp rap with an adequate hammer.
Stormin Mormon
boys can install heat tape. At least, the ones in my
congregation can. I think. At 49 years old, I do
my own heat tape. Fortunately, I've not had a
liver transplant.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
message news:vfsWo.34313$sx4....@newsfe02.iad...
Ralph Mowery
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:igdj3v$dat$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Seems as though there ought to be low temp thermostats, so
> the room stays over 35f. Ask at your nearby hardware store,
> see what they have.
>
>
I know there are some that are designed to work at low temperatuers. I have
installed a few where I work in some small (about 6x6 feet buildings with
water pipes) . There were connected to some 240 volt heaters of around
1500 watts. I don't know what the brand is or where to get them as the
purchant department ordered them.
I don't know how low the common portable heaters will go. Probably not near
low enough to keep the power bill down. Howver one of those thermostats
could be put in series with the portable heater.
I still think the heat tape and some insulation would be the way to go if
possiable.
You can buy strips of it with a thermostat already on it that will plug into
a 120 volt outlet.
Then some insulation and you do not have to heat the whole aea at a big
waste of power.
JoeSpareBedroom
> If one existed! Most 12s are hooked onto an
> ipod at one end, a Gameboy at the other end,
> and a couple cell phones stuck into each ear.
Only Mormons. The rest of us are OK.
Bob F
> Here in winter, most days it at least gets above freezing.
> (Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
> this week.
> In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
> with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
> water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
> 100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
> freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
> below freezing for more than a day.
> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
> the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
> is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
Another suggestion. Add insulation outside the pipe on the inside wall, so that
inside heat will get to the pipe, and it is insulated from the outside cold.
35 F outlet for a heater
http://www.shopwiki.com/_Farm+Innovators+TC-3+Cold+Weather+Thermo+Cube+Thermostatically+Controlled+Outlet+-+On+at+35-Degrees/Off+at+45-Degrees?o=1033857824&s=3885
LSMFT
> Here in winter, most days it at least gets above freezing.
> (Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
> this week.
> In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
> with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
> water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
> 100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
> freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
> below freezing for more than a day.
> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
> the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
> is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
>
Get a drop cord and put the bulb UNDER the pipe; heat rises.
--
LSMFT
Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.
Metspitzer
wrote:
> Here in winter, most days it at least gets above freezing.
>(Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
>this week.
> In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
>with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
>water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
>100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
>freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
>below freezing for more than a day.
> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
>the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
>is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
Good suggestions all
Thanks everyone
mbe...@none.com
Buy one of those little ceramic electric heaters. Walmart, hardware
store, building center, etc.. They're about $30 and very safe to use.
They draw lower wattage than the bigger electric heaters. Blow it
toward the wall where the pipes are. (of course leave a few feet in
between - read the directions to know how far to space it from walls).
Heat tape is costly too, but it may be a little cheaper, but this
heater wont need anything installed. Just plug it in.
Jeff Thies
> On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:18:55 -0500, Metspitzer<kilo...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Here in winter, most days it at least gets above freezing.
>> (Alabama/Georgia) The nights are supposed to be down in the low 20s
>> this week.
>> In my sister's house, the water heater is in a utility room
>> with no heat. The hot water pipe is in an outside wall so her hot
>> water freezes during these cold times. I have suggested she put a
>> 100W bulb in the overhead light and leave it on to keep the pipes from
>> freezing. This has helped, but it still freezes if the temp stays
>> below freezing for more than a day.
>> She only needs enough heat in the small x small room to keep
>> the pipe from freezing. A 100W lamp is not enough and a room heater
>> is really too much. Can someone suggest something in between?
>
> Buy one of those little ceramic electric heaters. Walmart, hardware
> store, building center, etc.. They're about $30 and very safe to use.
> They draw lower wattage than the bigger electric heaters.
How do you figure that? Almost all heaters draw ~1500W on high, and some
portion thereof on medium and low.
Not that I'm adverse to ceramic, but they don't draw less power.
Jeff
Stormin Mormon
at the mall. They are all Mormons? Neat! Glad you told me.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
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"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
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Stormin Mormon
energy efficient. Years ago, I checked some packages at the
store. 1500 watts delivers 5,200 BTU per hour. Filament or
ceramic, both the same output. The ceramics don't get as
hot, and much less of a fire risk.
And, ceramic heaters are smaller, easier to store in the off
season (get it? OFF season?).
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jeff Thies" <jeff_...@att.net>
wrote in message news:igevhi$plq$1...@news.albasani.net...
Jeff Thies
> When ceramic heaters came out, they were supposed to be more
> energy efficient. Years ago, I checked some packages at the
> store. 1500 watts delivers 5,200 BTU per hour. Filament or
> ceramic, both the same output.
Same power, same efficiency.
The ceramics don't get as
> hot, and much less of a fire risk.
I don't know about that. A quickie IR measurement into my ceramic on
high, gives almost 300F. Reduce the airflow, if it was covered or
partially covered and that will go up. It still needs to be thermally
protected. And caution used that nothing can cover it.
There is no glowing hot wire, but that is not all there is to worry
about.
>
> And, ceramic heaters are smaller, easier to store in the off
> season (get it?
I never said anything to lead to the contrary.
Most people I know, myself included, keep one in the bathroom. Small
size, quick heat, reasonably safe. Still need to be careful. The safest
heater, is the largest, the radiator style IMHO.
Jeff
OFF season?).
>
notbob
> Most people I know, myself included, keep one in the bathroom. Small
> size, quick heat, reasonably safe. Still need to be careful. The safest
> heater, is the largest, the radiator style IMHO.
All electric heaters are limited by wiring codes for 110V house
current. Max is 1500 watts. Add a fan and the motor subtracts from
heating element maximum. Radiant heat BTUs are determined by direct
conversion of amps to BTUs. Can anyone show me that ceramics are more
efficient than a heated metal filament?
nb
Jeff Thies
> On 2011-01-10, Jeff Thies<jeff_...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Most people I know, myself included, keep one in the bathroom. Small
>> size, quick heat, reasonably safe. Still need to be careful. The safest
>> heater, is the largest, the radiator style IMHO.
>
> All electric heaters are limited by wiring codes for 110V house
> current. Max is 1500 watts.
Roughly. With line voltages typically closer to 125, they can run over
1600W. I've checked all mine with a Kill A Watt. So, 15A max, and
generally more like 13A.
Add a fan and the motor subtracts from
> heating element maximum.
They usually rate all electric heaters as 100%. Even the fan and motor
eventually is eventually returned as heat.
Radiant heat BTUs are determined by direct
> conversion of amps to BTUs. Can anyone show me that ceramics are more
> efficient than a heated metal filament?
Not correctly, anyways!
Jeff
>
> nb
Caesar Romano
wrote Re Re: How much heat to keep pipes from freezing:
>Heat tape would be a good idea if it wasn't me that would have to
>install it (I don't mind doing it, but my health is not best). She
>has a brother in law in the same state that does her plumbing. I live
>one state away.
Be aware however that it is not unusual for the thermostat on heat
tape to fail and not turn on the tape heat when it is needed. I just
got finished fixing two failed heat tapes down at the barn here in
northwest Alabama.
It's looking like the 2010-2011 winter will be the coldest we have had
in 30 years. We just got 8" of snow last night. That's the second
snow in the past month.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.
Don Klipstein
The "radiator style" looks to me safer - more suitable for use in a
chilly bedroom than other types.
But in the original area with pipes prone to freezing and sounding easy
to rid of combustibles? I would use something with a fan to direct the
heat, and UL listed so that if the fan fails the unit fails safely. Keep
the area free of combustibles just in case the unit in question fails less
safely than the sample of that unit submitted for UL testing.
Otherwise get one or two of those clamp-on lights with reflectors, use
150W bulbs in the likely event the units are rated for such, and aim them
where their radiant heat output will be good - should this amount of heat
be sufficient. (Probably will be in a small area when outdoor temperature
only dips to the 20's.)
There are also trouble lights, with hooks for hanging them from things,
and reflectors to give them some directivity. However, those tend to be
rated for maximum of 60 watt bulbs or something like that.
("Industrial service" / "rough duty" incandescents, as well as ones
producing over 2600 lumens of light at "design voltage", are among the
many exceptions from the upcoming incandescent lamp ban.)
Watch out for the ball joints in many of these clamp-on lights being
prone to slipping. Deploy these lights only where they re-aim themselves
safely if the ball joint slips. Don't set yourself up for being only a
minor earthquake or a thermal expansion related loss of grip away from
starting a fire - with any temporary lighting or any temporary heat
source.
--
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
The ceramics are more efficient at heating air, which is directed by
the fan to what is to be heated. The filament types are more efficient at
heating whatever absorbs their infrared radiation, though they do some
heating of adjacent air that rises upward.