How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
Logic316
I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
this motor, I checked).
Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
tips on this.
Thanks in advance :-)
- Logic316
"I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't
do it in the streets and frighten the horses."
-- Victor Hugo
Logic316
news:0rhkg49mifk3jiodt...@4ax.com...
> If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
> excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
> tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.
There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be cleaned
out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There was actually
LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last year, but for some
reason the flame doesn't look the same this time around and I'm not sure
what I missed.
>>The only problem is, I'm
>>not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed
>>out
>
> You don't touch them. You have neither the tools nor the
> knowhow.
Then tell me what special tools and info I need, if you're so smart. I don't
have an exhaust gas meter, if that's what you're hinting at, but none of the
oil company technicians I've seen use those either (and I've had it serviced
by different companies). They all adjusted everything strictly by eye. This
can't be rocket science.
>>The problem is that even when I open the air
>>intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
>>another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
>>nozzle isn't clogged up.
>
> I dunno - throw a few more nozzles at it and see what happens.
> Try some different ones. Whatever Home Depot has in stock that day
> will do.
I used the exact same type of nozzle that the technicians from the oil
company put on there. And I get my parts from local heating and plumbing
supply distributors, and shop at family-owned hardware stores, not Home
Depot, you wiseass.
> Call someone who knows WTF they're doing. PAY them to come do it.
Piss off. I got it right last year. You're just jealous because somebody out
there isn't giving you any work. Well pity party for you, boo fucking
hoo....
- Logic316
"Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
warm for the rest of his life."
Zyp
Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!
--
Zyp
Logic316
"Zyp" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7Wdnb8ZUamW25fU...@championbroadband.com...
> Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!
>
> --
> Zyp
Sure thing, Zyp. But first you show me how.
- Logic316
"I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law."
-- David Dinkins, former New York City Mayor
Mikepier
electrodes.
Logic316
>> "Give a man fire and he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire and he's
>> warm for the rest of his life."
>
> Seems like you [Logic316] need to set YOURSELF on fire!
>
> --
> Zyp
Sure thing, buddy. Come over here and show me how.
Logic316
"Mikepier" <mike...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:f48b09a8-79ab-4909...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Here's a good write-up on tuning up oil burners and adjusting
> electrodes.
>
> http://www.freepoolheat.com/oil.html
Thanks, Mike.
I'll try setting the electrodes flush with the plane of the nozzle like it
recommends, the rest of the system seems OK.
- Logic316
"Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the
intelligence? There's one marked "Brightness," but it doesn't work."
-- Gallagher
Logic316
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:kgkkg4tu4k6129mir...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:27 -0400, Bubba <LiKeAlA...@iname.com>
> For many years before digital combustion efficiency meters, guys
> adjusted oil burners very well entirely by eye (and ear). The guy who
> used to service ours could tell in about 20 seconds if the pump
> pressure was low just by looking at the spray. Adjusting the ignitor
> was the same - he knew exactly how wide the gap needed to be and where
> it had to be positioned. If someone had TOTALLY screwed it up, he
> could get it back in shape in about 15 minutes or less. He'd set
> everything up cold and dry, then start the furnace. Very seldom
> required any extensive tweaking.
I figured as much.
My motor ran perfectly last year, and the only thing I can think of that's
different now is the position of the electrodes. I knocked them out of whack
when cleaning the flame retention ring, and I repositioned them according to
some tips I found on the web, but the flame is a bit long and smoky even
with the air intake open all the way. Not to the point where it's smells or
causing a safety hazard, but I'm sure I'm not getting full efficiency right
now.
- Logic316
"No taxation without respiration."
-- Rep. Bob Schaffer, Colorado, on repeal of the death tax.
Logic316
> Aren't you the one with the little saying at the end of your little
> message. I'd guess you already knew how... or are you not being truthful
> in your writing?> --
> Zyp
That's called a "tagline", young man. If you've been on Usenet for any
length of time, you would know what that is.
And I may not know every little detail about tuning a furnace, but I've got
the safety aspects covered pretty well, and if I'm as stupid as you and a
couple of the other trolls here think I am, then you're just simply going to
have to come over and personally show me how to set myself on fire. Unless
you're a pussy....
- Logic316
User: n. The word computer professionals use when they mean "idiot."
Logic316
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:calkg41qr26rd7akk...@4ax.com...
> Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
> gen changed?
The retention ring has no way of being moved up or down along the fuel pipe,
though it can be twisted around slightly. It looks pretty primitive, as it's
permanently machined in place and there is no adjustment there. I see no way
to adjust the position of the nozzle either, you just change it and that's
it.
- Logic316
"If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody."
Steve
"Logic316" <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:490a44cd$0$5666$607e...@cv.net...
> <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:0rhkg49mifk3jiodt...@4ax.com...
>
>> If it was working right it wouldn't be. you either have
>> excess soot, or excess unburned oil, and neither is good. A well
>> tuned oil fired boiler burns CLEAN.
>
> There's always been a significant amount of soot that needed to be cleaned
> out, even when I had the oil company guys work on it. There was actually
> LESS soot in the boiler after I had adjusted it last year, but for some
> reason the flame doesn't look the same this time around and I'm not sure
> what I missed.
You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they only
care about selling oil.
Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done right.
Tekkie®
> causing a safety hazard
>
Oh, like high CO coming out?
--
Tekkie - I approve this advertisement/statement/utterance.
ransley
> "Bubba" <LiKeAlAkErem...@iname.com> wrote in message
>
> news:uigkg4d52vgi0keia...@4ax.com...
>
> > Absolutely fuckin amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
> > furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
> > idiots like you will fuck with something that you dont have the
> > slightest clue about.
> > How do you adjust it?
> > You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
> > years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
> > Bubba
>
> Ok, "Bubba".
> NONE of the professional techs who adjusted my furnace before ever used any
> sort of combustion efficiency meter doodads. I watched them, and I know they
> did it by eye. And most of them didn't look nearly old enough to have 20
> years of on the job training. BTW, is it considered some sort of a
> requirement to be trained in acting like a complete asshole before you can
> post on Usenet? Feel free to email me privately if you live anywhere near
> Westchester, NY and I'll be happy to arrange a personal meeting between your
> ass and my foot and we'll see just how big your mouth is going to be then.
>
> - Logic316
>
> "Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the
> intelligence? There's one marked "Brightness," but it doesn't work."
> -- Gallagher
It took bubba 20 years to learn it so it must be gospal. In most
cities people go to school and learn this stuff from an instructor in
a no time at all, and they learn it right the first time, not screwing
up for 19 years.
zero
"Logic316" <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:calkg41qr26rd7akk...@4ax.com...
>
>> Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
>> gen changed?
>
> The retention ring has no way of being moved up or down along the fuel
> pipe, though it can be twisted around slightly. It looks pretty primitive,
> as it's permanently machined in place and there is no adjustment there. I
> see no way to adjust the position of the nozzle either, you just change it
> and that's it.
>
I think you might need a new burner? What else could it be?
-zero
tra...@optonline.net
> "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
New burner? It's only 30 years old. LOL. The furnace is 60 years
old and was designed to burn coal. You think it just might make
sense to buy a new furnace? With the price of oil today, it's hard
to imagine how you could not save enough in fuel costs to justify a
new furnace. You're likely sending substantial $$$ up the chimney,
while fretting over how to try to tune up a dinosaur, which even if
burning as best it can, still is inefficient compared to a new furnace.
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
What is it, he first says cast iron boiler, bubbass dreams up furnace,
now its a cast iron furnace? If cast furnace its 50-60% efficent, a
boiler maybe 65% overall, He should dump whatever it is and get a high
efficency unit, what a waste.
Logic316
"Tekkie®" <Tek...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.237429434...@news20.forteinc.com...
> Logic316 posted for all of us...
>
>> causing a safety hazard
>>
> Oh, like high CO coming out?
I have two CO detectors in the house, as well as a big old brick chimney
with a strong draft. This boiler and chimney were originally designed for
burning coal, so it operates on a draft system that is more than capable of
venting out excess fumes. Besides, with oil heat you're going to smell the
unburnt hydrocarbons long before the CO becomes a problem, that's why oil is
relatively much more safe than natural gas. But I guess you knew that,
right?
- Logic316
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97
Logic316
"Bubba" <LiKeAlA...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:62vlg413oc99ad97v...@4ax.com...
> Here is an absolute minimium of equipment needed to diagnose and set
> an oil flame. Care to guess how long these antiquated pieces of
> equipment have been around?
> http://www.bacharach-inc.com/combustion-test-kits.htm
>
> Here brainiac. Below is a link to the minimal digital efficiency
> analyzer for oil. You will still need a smoke pump and draft gauge and
> pump pressure meter.
> Brains to operate and diagnose it all becomes real helpful.
> http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=1484
>
> Either do it right or shut the fuck up.
Suggestion noted, and rejected.
Tell you what Booboo, when YOU'RE the one who pays my oil bill and has to
clean out my boiler, then you can complain and insist on having it
maintained YOUR way.
- Logic316
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
-- Popular Mechanics, 1949
Logic316
"ransley" <Mark_R...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:57041e42-8fbe-4d95...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
What is it, he first says cast iron boiler, bubbass dreams up furnace,
now its a cast iron furnace? If cast furnace its 50-60% efficent, a
boiler maybe 65% overall, He should dump whatever it is and get a high
efficency unit, what a waste.
It's a boiler.
I'll agree it's a dinosaur that should be replaced, but for now I just want
to make the most of what I've got.
- Logic316
"...trusting the government with your privacy is like
having a Peeping Tom install your window blinds."
-- John Perry Barlow
Steve
"Logic316" <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:45:42 -0400, "Logic316"
>> Logic,
>> How does it feel
>
> <Irrelevent drivel snipped>
>
>> And lastly, I love you little pussy behind the internet threat. Almost
>> makes me laugh. Meet me in person and then lets see how quickly you
>> piss your pants you little cunt.
>> Bite me.
>> Bubba
>
> I don't make threats, Booboo, I only issued you a challenge. You're
> perfectly free to take it or leave it. I have a hard time taking "keyboard
> warriors" seriously, and I'm curious to see if you're as boorish in
> person. Go ahead and send me a private email address, and we'll take
> things from there. Or you can just keep on talking trash and showing
> everybody that's all you can do.
You got told what you needed to know...If its not what you wanted to hear,
tough...get over it. now go away.
ransley
> "ransley" <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
What you have is something that is obsolete and will cost more to
replace if it fails when contractors are in high demand, when its real
cold out I bet you could cut cut your bill in half with a new unit,
run the numbers on a payback instead of guessing, its an investment.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:37:17 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:27 -0400, Bubba <LiKeAlA...@iname.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:38:39 -0400, "Logic316"
>>><Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi folks,
>>>>I have an old cast iron boiler that used to burn coal back in the 1940's,
>>>>and had been converted over to heating oil. It uses a pretty standard
>>>>looking 3450 motor that's about 30 years old, and I clean and maintain the
>>>>boiler myself (a pretty damn messy job, I know). The only problem is, I'm
>>>>not sure how to properly adjust the ignition electrodes. I just vacuumed out
>>>>the boiler, replaced the oil filter, and then replaced the fuel nozzle with
>>>>exactly the same kind that it was using before (60 degrees spray angle, 1.35
>>>>gallons per hour flow rate). The problem is that even when I open the air
>>>>intake band all the way, the flame is still long, red and smoky. I tried
>>>>another new fuel nozzle with the same results, so I'm pretty sure that the
>>>>nozzle isn't clogged up. I'm guessing it has something to do with the
>>>>position of the ignition electrodes possibly interfering with the fuel spray
>>>>pattern, and I suppose I could go back and forth about a hundred times
>>>>disassembling and reassembling the fuel gun assembly until I get the
>>>>electrodes perfect, but if anybody out there can give me the proper
>>>>specifications I would very much appreciate it (there is no specs label on
>>>>this motor, I checked).
>>>>
>>>>Also, can anybody give me some tips on adjusting the flame? I have some
>>>>general idea that the flame should be made as big as possible, without
>>>>giving off any smoke or long red "fingers". When I adjusted it last year,
>>>>the furnace seemed to run pretty efficiently and there wasn't much soot in
>>>>it when I cleaned it out, but it would be great if anybody could give me any
>>>>tips on this.
>>>>Thanks in advance :-)
>>>>
>>>>- Logic316
>>>>
>>>Absolutely fuckin amazing. Many techs wont even mess with a oil
>>>furnace unless they do a lot of them yet it simply amazes me how many
>>>idiots like you will fuck with something that you dont have the
>>>slightest clue about.
>>>How do you adjust it?
>>>You buy expensive digital combustion efficiency equipment, spend 20
>>>years of on the job training and then you will have a bit of a clue.
>>>Bubba
>>
>>For many years before digital combustion efficiency meters, guys
>>adjusted oil burners very well entirely by eye (and ear). The guy who
>>used to service ours could tell in about 20 seconds if the pump
>>pressure was low just by looking at the spray. Adjusting the ignitor
>>was the same - he knew exactly how wide the gap needed to be and where
>>it had to be positioned. If someone had TOTALLY screwed it up, he
>>could get it back in shape in about 15 minutes or less. He'd set
>>everything up cold and dry, then start the furnace. Very seldom
>>required any extensive tweaking.
>
>Here is an absolute minimium of equipment needed to diagnose and set
>an oil flame. Care to guess how long these antiquated pieces of
>equipment have been around?
>http://www.bacharach-inc.com/combustion-test-kits.htm
>
>Here brainiac. Below is a link to the minimal digital efficiency
>analyzer for oil. You will still need a smoke pump and draft gauge and
>pump pressure meter.
>Brains to operate and diagnose it all becomes real helpful.
>http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=1484
>
>Either do it right or shut the fuck up.
>Bubba
Profanity - the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcibly.
'nuff said??
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Well, my situation was a little different - I heat with gas forced
air. My furnace was something like 30 years old when I decided to
replace it with a good high-tech non-condensing furnace.
My gas consumption DID NOT CHANGE AT ALL. What did go down was my
hydro bill - the new blower is a LOT more efficient (DC Direct drive).
Last time I had the old burner checked (about 5 years before I
replaced it) the tech could not believe how efficiently it was burning
(and I had set it up myself)
I could do whatever needed to be done on the dynasour. On the new
furnace things are a bit more complex, but I've already had to repair
the inductor fan because the dealer could not get one when mine got
noisy
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:39:02 -0400, "Logic316"
><Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve" <jste...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:gedmah$6cj$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>> You missed the simple fact that properly adjusted oil furnaces don't soot
>>> up. If it soots up, there is too much oil and not enough air.... the oil
>>> companies don't care about you having a properly burning furnace, they
>>> only care about selling oil.
>>>
>>> Now... spend a few bucks and call a *REAL* oil tech and have it done
>>> right.
>>
>>I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws up
>>your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
>>next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.
>>
>>- Logic316
>>
>>
>>"Private property began the instant somebody had a mind of his own."
>> -- E. E. Cummings
>>
>Except if they DO get it right they don't get paid to get dirty and
>clean it out next year.
And everyone knows service techs look FORWARD to cleaning out
a nice sooty boiler, it's Soooomuch fun !!! Especially in a crawl
space !
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
Logic316
> I bet your still driving a 60 year old car too just to make the most of
> what you have.
You've got something against classic cars?
I do drive an older car, as a matter of fact (because I can do most of my
own repairs), though admittedly not anything quite that old. Anyhow, maybe I
just have a hardon for antique cast iron. It does look very pretty for a
boiler, and I consider it a piece of history that's too nice to be consigned
to a scrapyard. And if it works as well as it did last year, then I'll be
happy with it for now.
- Logic316
Expert:(n) from EX as in 'has been' and SPURT, 'a little drip under
pressure'.
Boden
> sa...@dog.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:38:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> <the-dari...@wtf.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> sa...@dog.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:33:33 -0400, "Logic316"
>>>> <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Boden" <Bo...@tidewater.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:gef4n...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> My oil burner tech spent about 5 minutes showing me how to set the
>>>>>> electrodes on my Beckett AFs. I now replace the nozzles, clean
>>>>>> out the oil filters, measure combustion by-products (with eBay
>>>>>> acquired testers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose it could take 20 years to learn, but if you went to
>>>>>> school on a long bus 5 to 10 minutes will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A copy of the Beckett Oil Burner Manual (Form 6104BAF R0803) is
>>>>>> useful and answers most questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Oil Burner Guild would like to discourage knowledgeable home
>>>>>> owners from doing this simple task. But, guilds work that way.
>>>>>> If you're not knowledgeable then you should become informed (and
>>>>>> safe) first or hire a guild member.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, I'll look for that.
>>>>> It amazes me that I've been doing my own car repairs and roof work
>>>>> for years, yet nobody ever bitched at me simply for not being a
>>>>> state-certified auto mechanic or roofer. And working on a car or a
>>>>> roof can get you killed if you don't pay attention to basic safety
>>>>> procedures, yet it's something an amateur can be quite capable of
>>>>> doing properly. But if I even dare to mention around here that I
>>>>> touched MY own furnace, all of a sudden it's like I stepped on the
>>>>> toes of the oil mafia. Makes you wonder.....
>>>>>
>>>>> - Logic316
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nothing to wonder about if you have followed the same patteren here
>>>> for many years. If you have, then you know that most HVAC techs are
>>>> those who failed at being screen door repairmen or locksmiths. They
>>>> are an angry bunch of failures, and it shows.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Chuckle* What a nasty thing to say. I'm glad HVAC is
>>> not the only thing I work on or I would be pissed off
>>> all the time. BTW, what does your PhD cover?
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>>
>>
>> PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper
>>
>
> Preceeded by BS (Bullshit) and MS (More shit) degrees.
>
> Jeff
>
Ahh. The response of those too ignorant to assimilate knowledge.
Steve
"Logic316" <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> Its your money, and you can give all you want to the oil companies....
>> its not like they don't have anough already from raping folks wallets at
>> the gas pumps.
>>
>> FWIW, whenever I install a new comfort system, its not unusual for my
>> customers to see a 50% decrease in their utility bills.... enough so that
>> my customers get a call a month or 2 after I put the system in to find
>> out why they are not sending all their money to the utilities anymore.
>>
>> If you want to screw up your system, thats on you. you obviously have
>> serious issues with your furnace, get it seen to by a *competent*,
>> licensed, insured, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil
>> specialist). If it cuts your oil usage by 30% and stops the furnace from
>> sooting up, what have you lost??
>
> I will consider this.
> It might be worth it to get an impartial diagnosis from a tech who doesn't
> work for an oil company, at least just once. But I hope you folks
> understand my position - I've always been pretty good at doing my own
> repairs and maintenence around the house and garage just by reading the
> necessary documentation and repair books. If I can tune a carbureted or
> fuel injected automobile engine and replace my own brakes without ANY
> formal training (and it still passes safety & emissions), then I fail to
> see why I would need to take a bunch of classes or obtain a certification,
> or hire a pro, just to tune a boiler with a 30 year old motor. The
> technologies are similar enough, it's just a matter of figuring out a few
> steps and knowing what the proper specs are.
Thats great, but you still need to be able to take and inturpet instrument
readings to verify boiler is operating as it was designed to. Otherwise,
your just guessing. What if you guess wrong?? You won't know it.....unless
you take the readings, and know what the readings are telling you.
Logic316
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:01:48 -0400, "Logic316"
> <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> Your logic on this one Logic again continues to amaze me.
> You have two CO detectors and thats what you are banking you and your
> familys life on? You need to learn what those $30-$40 CO detectors
> really do and do detect.
> Read here www.coexperts.com
> Nope, I have nothing to do with them and I really dont care if you
> read it or purchase one. Its just good info.
> The fact that you think you are going to smell unburnt hydrocarbons
> before any CO becomes a problem is just plain scary.
> What happens at 2AM when you are in a sound sleep on a 0 degree night
> and your boiler soots up? Have you actually ever seen how fast a
> boiler and chimney can plug when an oil burner futzes up?? Ive seen
> plenty of them and its not pretty and it happens it literally minutes.
> You really need to buy a clue on what you are doing.
> Bubba
If you were talking about a relatively modern boiler (which operates on
pressure rather than draft), I would understand what you mean. But
apparently you don't realize how big the passages in my boiler are. Maybe
you need to familiarize yourself with older heating equipment (circa 1945,
it really is a beauty). I already mentioned that this monster used to be a
COAL boiler, so the exhaust pipe and chimney are over a foot in diameter and
the spaces within the heat exchanger are also quite large. I've have also
been monitoring the way it runs every day, so there's no way it can just
plug up without warning. Anyhow, I figured out the problem I was having with
the flame being a bit too long and sooty. The electrodes did in fact need to
be adjusted further away, and before I simply didn't let the furnace run
long enough after changing nozzles. This time I let it run for a good half
hour afterwards (and left the air intake band open all the way), and when I
checked it after it got good and hot the flame was compact and smokeless.
It's now just a matter of getting the perfect fuel/air ratio.........
- Logic316
"A diplomat thinks twice before saying nothing."
Logic316
>>I'm not sure I believe that, Steve. Chances are, the oil tech who screws
>>up
>>your furnace settings is going to be the same one who has to vacuum it out
>>next year, so they do have some motivation to get it right.
>>
>>- Logic316
>>
> another stupid statement from Logic.
> Who the hell enjoys cleaning out a nasty dirty sooted up boiler or
> furnace?
> You really are a twit, logic. I think you just enjoy pissing in the
> pool.
> Bubba
Booboo,
That was my point. Did you even read through my post?
I *SAID* that a technician working for an oil company could have no logical
interest in deliberately screwing up a furnace, because he wouldn't want to
have to risk cleaning out all the extra crap next year. Even when I defend
you oil company guys and try to be fair, you still argue with me! I guess if
they're all as slow as you, then they probably really are just plain
incompetent and simply can't think that far ahead.
- Logic316
The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want mustard with
that?"
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:56:44 -0500, Bubba <LiKeAlA...@iname.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Logic,
>>You keep proving yourself logic-less. I dont care if your flue
>>passages are a foot in diameter. Ive worked on shit 10 times older
>>than that and a hell of a lot bigger. Ive worked on crap that has been
>>around 80 -100 yrs I believe. It had doors on it where you crawl in it
>>to clean it out.
>
> I've worked on crap that had doors you WALKED through to clean
>it out :-) And I mean you didn't have to stoop, either. On start-up,
>the first motor to come on ( for pre-purge among other things ) was a
>5 HP blower - that, after pre-purge, served as combustion air FOR THE
>PILOT ( and ONLY the pilot ), which was a horizontal flame 3 feet
>long. Then the MAIN pump ( the pump by itself, no motor cost $ 1,000
>30 years ago ), blower, and burner started ramping up gradually. The
>firebox was ( from memory ) maybe 20 feet long and 6 feet high INSIDE
>:-). It was an exercise in self-control top stand at the end of that
>thing and look at the flame coming towards you through the inspection
>hole ! It was a spiral of flame ( hollow in the middle, controlled by
>the combustion airflow ) ~ 3 feet in diameter and 12 feet long.
>
>> If it isnt burning right it plugs up.......simple as
>>that.
>
> And it can take as little as a couple of days to do it.
>Granted, the installer has to have made EXTRA efforts to fuck it up
>that bad - like have ~ 50 % as much combustion air as needed for the
>nozzle he put in ...
And if it's going to plug up, it's safe to say the flame looks nowhere
NEAR like what it is supposed to look like.
To an experienced burner man, one look at the flame will tell him if
the digital meter is going to read close to what it should or not.
psilliman
> "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:490a5a8c$0$4911$607e...@cv.net...
>
>
>
> > <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> >news:calkg41qr26rd7akk...@4ax.com...
>
> >> Is the flame retention ring in position, and did the nozzle position
> >> gen changed?
>
> > The retention ring has no way of being moved up or down along the fuel
> > pipe, though it can be twisted around slightly. It looks pretty primitive,
> > as it's permanently machined in place and there is no adjustment there. I
> > see no way to adjust the position of the nozzle either, you just change it
> > and that's it.
>
> I think you might need a new burner? What else could it be?
>
> -zero
>
>
>
> > - Logic316
>
> > "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Logic316
> You still don't have a clue... the monkeys that work for the oil companies
> are there only because they can't make it anywhere else. The oil
> companies don't even pay a decent tech wage... consider... minimum pay =
> minimum effort.
> When you get tired of pissing in the wind here, you can always go back to
> asking "do you want mustard with that?"
You're probably right, Steve. It's just that I'm naturally suspicious of
anything that looks like a conspiracy theory, and I don't automatically
assume the worst of people without first seeing proof (even if they are
involved with Big Oil). Is that so wrong?
- Logic316
"Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away if your car could
go straight up."
-- Fred Hoyle
Logic316
> Your the one who keeps coming back here too. You been told several times
> what you need to do. Now, please run along and go play outside. I think I
> hear your mother calling you and the street lights are coming on.
Yes, I know what I need to do now. I thought I made that clear already.
And yet you keep posting to me.
- Logic316
"Bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies."
-- Honore de Balzac
ransley
> On Nov 4, 12:36 am, "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bubba" <LiKeAlAkErem...@iname.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:q5otg4d44eihsofvn...@4ax.com...
>
> > > But time and time again YOU keep missing the point. Your eyes nor
> > > anyone elses is the proper way to set an oil burner. People are paying
> > > $4 - $5 a gallon for fuel oil now. It used to be $0.99 a gal.
> > > Tell me straight up. How do you know your oil boiler is setup properly
> > > and that you are not wasting hundreds and hundreds of dollars up the
> > > flue?? How?? Answer: YOU CANT!
> > > You think its safe because YOU say you think its safe. Well gee. That
> > > must be true then??
> > > All you know is that you've made a boiler run without stopping. Big
> > > freaking whoop. A first year apprentice can manage that one.
> > > Now go away and burn up all that extra money you have.
> > > Bubba
>
> > No, I made my boiler run all through last winter and it came out cleaner and
> > used less oil than in previous years when I've had the oil companies tune it
> > (like I said before, they also never used any precision analyzing
> > equipment). I can't say for sure if I tuned it absolutely perfectly (which,
> > with my old system, probably isn't even possible), but an improvement is
> > still an improvement. I'll stand by that.
>
> > - Logic316
>
> > "There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes."
>
> And how much improvement and reduction in operating costs do you think
> you could get by going to a NEW BOILER? I would not expect a 60 year
> old boiler, originally designed to burn coal, to be anywhere near as
> efficient as a modern boiler. If it were me, I'd be looking at a
> new boiler and considering all options, eg is nat gas available now,
> etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
60 yrs old, alot of excess water was used compared to todays 10 gallon
units making them long to heat up the excess, an inneficent design
throughout from cheap oil, maybe he gets 45-55% efficency and has the
risk of major failure, maybe he is oversized. He can go 86% or even
condensing at 92-93% and likely cut bills in half.
Logic316
"psilliman" <nrg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7189e7fb-88d4-4965...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> gentlemen , by this time you must realize that logic316 is totally
> intractable
"Intractable", that's one I haven't heard in a while.
Is that some pedantic high school vocabulary word you haven't used since you
were quizzed on it and now suddenly felt you just *had* to use on this
special occasion, or perhaps something you obtained from a recent copy of
Reader's Digest (an excellent magazine for people with short attention spans
who can't be bothered to read entire books), or did you go out of your way
to consult www.thesaurus.com simply on my account? In any case, I'm quite
flattered.
> and will never 'get it'. you'll never change his mind and he is
> obsessed with winning this exchange . i've seen this many times on
> this site , let him keep his totally outdated , inefficient , oil
> gobbling monster
I will keep my old boiler only until I can afford a new one. I do realize it
would cost me more money in the long run if I don't get rid of it soon, but
right now at this moment, a replacement just isn't an option. It's as simple
as that, you silly cad.
Not to mention, it's completely coated with ASBESTOS insulation. I would
need to pay a separate cleanup company a sizeable fee just to properly
dispose of that stuff in an environmentally safe and legal manner. Do you
honestly think I haven't thought about any of this before? Begone, you
half-educated philistine, and trouble me with your presence no more.
Fartikus
"Logic316" <Logi...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:491124a1$0$14292$607e...@cv.net...
you pompous little poor ass. As Bubba always says: "it must suck to be you"
Somebody may have said this before, but if they made a pull string doll of
you, it would probably talk for 45 minutes after pulling the string.You
started off asking an honest question or 2, but you just didn't like the
answers; too bad.
Brrrrrrt!ah, that felt good. what's that aroma?
Don Ocean
> "ransley" <Mark_R...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cedfa733-9303-45ed...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 4, 10:44 pm, "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>> "psilliman" <nrg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:7189e7fb-88d4-4965...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> gentlemen , by this time you must realize that logic316 is totally
>>> intractable
>> "Intractable", that's one I haven't heard in a while.
>> Is that some pedantic high school vocabulary word you haven't used since
>> you
>> were quizzed on it and now suddenly felt you just *had* to use on this
>> special occasion, or perhaps something you obtained from a recent copy of
>> Reader's Digest (an excellent magazine for people with short attention
>> spans
>> who can't be bothered to read entire books), or did you go out of your way
>> flattered.
>>
>>> and will never 'get it'. you'll never change his mind and he is
>>> obsessed with winning this exchange . i've seen this many times on
>>> this site , let him keep his totally outdated , inefficient , oil
>>> gobbling monster
>> I will keep my old boiler only until I can afford a new one. I do realize
>> it
>> would cost me more money in the long run if I don't get rid of it soon,
>> but
>> right now at this moment, a replacement just isn't an option. It's as
>> simple
>> as that, you silly cad.
>> Not to mention, it's completely coated with ASBESTOS insulation. I would
>> need to pay a separate cleanup company a sizeable fee just to properly
>> dispose of that stuff in an environmentally safe and legal manner. Do you
>> honestly think I haven't thought about any of this before? Begone, you
>> half-educated philistine, and trouble me with your presence no more.
>>
>> - Logic316
>>
>> "Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away if your car
>> could
>> go straight up."
>> -- Fred Hoyle
>
> you just soak it with a hose until its completely wet and keep area
> wet, its of no harm wet.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> And then it *STILL* has to be disposed of as HAZARDOUS WASTE, and thats not
> free either.
It doesn't make any difference how you remove it as an uncertified
person. The Fine is going to be damned impressive. Also the neighbors
have grounds for a Helluva a lawsuit.
>
>
Don Ocean
> On Nov 5, 7:37 am, "Steve" <jstev...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "ransley" <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:cedfa733-9303-45ed...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 4, 10:44 pm, "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> news:7189e7fb-88d4-4965...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> gentlemen , by this time you must realize that logic316 is totally
>>>> intractable
>>> "Intractable", that's one I haven't heard in a while.
>>> Is that some pedantic high school vocabulary word you haven't used since
>>> you
>>> were quizzed on it and now suddenly felt you just *had* to use on this
>>> special occasion, or perhaps something you obtained from a recent copy of
>>> Reader's Digest (an excellent magazine for people with short attention
>>> spans
>>> who can't be bothered to read entire books), or did you go out of your way
>>> flattered.
>>>> and will never 'get it'. you'll never change his mind and he is
>>>> obsessed with winning this exchange . i've seen this many times on
>>>> this site , let him keep his totally outdated , inefficient , oil
>>>> gobbling monster
>>> I will keep my old boiler only until I can afford a new one. I do realize
>>> it
>>> would cost me more money in the long run if I don't get rid of it soon,
>>> but
>>> right now at this moment, a replacement just isn't an option. It's as
>>> simple
>>> as that, you silly cad.
>>> Not to mention, it's completely coated with ASBESTOS insulation. I would
>>> need to pay a separate cleanup company a sizeable fee just to properly
>>> dispose of that stuff in an environmentally safe and legal manner. Do you
>>> honestly think I haven't thought about any of this before? Begone, you
>>> half-educated philistine, and trouble me with your presence no more.
>>> - Logic316
>>> "Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away if your car
>>> could
>>> go straight up."
>>> -- Fred Hoyle
>> you just soak it with a hose until its completely wet and keep area
>> wet, its of no harm wet.
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> And then it *STILL* has to be disposed of as HAZARDOUS WASTE, and thats not
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> fill it goes with all the chemical poisons we dump every day that are
> a real threat to water and ground. So you DIY in a day or piss off
> 3-10,000.00 to pro. Asbestos is just bad when airborn so you bury
> it.
I take it you encourage dangerous and illegal removal of Asbestos? Do
you also collect the 10 % fee for turning them in? I th9ink its time for
you to haul your idiot ass over to alt.criminalsRus.
bud--
> Steve wrote:
> > "ransley" <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:cedfa733-9303-45ed...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 4, 10:44 pm, "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "psilliman" <nrg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:7189e7fb-88d4-4965...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> gentlemen , by this time you must realize that logic316 is totally
> >>> intractable
> >> "Intractable", that's one I haven't heard in a while.
> >> Is that some pedantic high school vocabulary word you haven't used since
> >> you
> >> were quizzed on it and now suddenly felt you just *had* to use on this
> >> special occasion, or perhaps something you obtained from a recent copy of
> >> Reader's Digest (an excellent magazine for people with short attention
> >> spans
> >> who can't be bothered to read entire books), or did you go out of your way
According to someone who is certified, an owner occupant can remove
asbestos in their home. The asbestos has to be double bagged, labeled,
and disposed of in a landfill where asbestos is allowed. You could get
rid of it through a certified contractor.
Asbestos is dangerous when airborne. If kept wet it is safe. But
there is a lot of asbestos on an old boiler.
--
bud--
ransley
> ransley wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 7:37 am, "Steve" <jstev...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> "ransley" <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:cedfa733-9303-45ed...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Nov 4, 10:44 pm, "Logic316" <Logic...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "psilliman" <nrg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:7189e7fb-88d4-4965...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>> gentlemen , by this time you must realize that logic316 is totally
> >>>> intractable
> >>> "Intractable", that's one I haven't heard in a while.
> >>> Is that some pedantic high school vocabulary word you haven't used since
> >>> you
> >>> were quizzed on it and now suddenly felt you just *had* to use on this
> >>> special occasion, or perhaps something you obtained from a recent copy of
> >>> Reader's Digest (an excellent magazine for people with short attention
> >>> spans
> >>> who can't be bothered to read entire books), or did you go out of your way
>
> - Show quoted text -
These absestos companies are rip offs all you asbestos co moaners,
keep it wet and its safe and thats what the boiler pro I had here did.
If you think for one minute all these pros pay to dump it legaly, its
just like I dont believe for 1 second you guys wood either, so cry
away.