Plumber's putty as a sealant?

[Novel8]

I am going to install a vanity marble top with sink onto my vanity after I take off the old, naturally. I have lots of plumber's putty which i know i can use on the faucet drain, but could i also use it as a sealant to my vanity?

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jan 10, 12:41 pm, Novel8 <koreve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am going to install a vanity marble top with sink onto my vanity after I take off the old, naturally. I have lots of plumber's putty which i know i can use on the faucet drain, but could i also use it as a sealant to my vanity?

I sure would not. Assuming what you're talking about is sealing
around the edges where the basin meets the vanity, I would use
a clear mold resistant silicone. It sets up. Plumbers putty
remains soft, pliable and very sticky.

[David L. Martel]

Novel,

You lost me at the start, what needs to be sealed? Is this where the
marble top meets the wall?

Dave M.

[Doug]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:41:45 -0800 (PST), Novel8 <kore...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I am going to install a vanity marble top with sink onto my vanity after I take off the old, naturally. I have lots of plumber's putty which i know i can use on the faucet drain, but could i also use it as a sealant to my vanity?

I think they sell specific caulking for this job. I would not use
plumber's putty for this because I think it's too soft and would
eventually ooze out. You could ask a Lowe's or HomeDepot what product
they recommend.

[dadiOH]

Depends upon where you are going to put it and how developed your sense of
esthetics is.

On boats, a "bedding compound" is frequently used. Its purpose is to
provide perfect contact between two objects to prevent water intrusion. It
is putty with some anti-fungal material. Putty is calcium carbonate
(usually) and linseed oil.

I often use putty for various things. For example, under the hinge leafs on
doors exposed to the elements; same for the lock & strike plates. I just
roll out a bit in my hand, squeeze onto whatever and tighten down the
screws; any excess squeezes out and is easily removed (I use a piece of hard
wood sanded to a chisel edge).

Someone said it doesn't get hard. It does but it takes a while as the
linseed oil is raw, not boiled.


I also sometimes use it to fudge a bit. I made a sink cabinet for my wife's
laundry room, used vinyl on the top, edged with wood. There were a few
slight gaps twixt vinyl and edging, a bit of putty rubbed in fixed that
nicely.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:21:33 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>
wrote:

Better yet, ask someone who actually works with and knows the marble
top you are working with.

[Doug]

Of course if he knows that person.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:11 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>

wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:57:57 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:21:33 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:41:45 -0800 (PST), Novel8 <kore...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am going to install a vanity marble top with sink onto my vanity after I take off the old, naturally. I have lots of plumber's putty which i know i can use on the faucet drain, but could i also use it as a sealant to my vanity?
>>>
>>>
>>>I think they sell specific caulking for this job. I would not use
>>>plumber's putty for this because I think it's too soft and would
>>>eventually ooze out. You could ask a Lowe's or HomeDepot what product
>>>they recommend.
>> Better yet, ask someone who actually works with and knows the marble
>>top you are working with.
>
>Of course if he knows that person.

A good reason to pay $5 more and buy the marble from someone who
DOES know - takes all the mystery out of the situation.

[Doug]

Well okay if the person buying thinks the person selling "knows". If
it were me, I'd ask around including the person selling and some home
improvement stores.

[HeyBub]

Until it dries out. Then it turns to powder.

[nestork]

I'm wanting to clarify a few points here.

Plumber's putty is NORMALLY used to seal between the lip and top of the
counter top on a drop-in sink. I really don't know if the same is true
for undermount sinks, or not.

Yes, most plumbers probably would use silicone caulk as the sealant
under a drop-in kitchen sink, but I won't do that, and haven't in the
21 kitchen sinks in my building. The reason why is that silicone also
works as a good adhesive, and should you ever want to remove that sink
in future, having silicone holding it in place is just gonna make it
more of a fight to remove. And, removing the silicone stuck to the
counter top is very much more difficult than plumber's putty.

So, if it were me, if this is a drop-in sink, I'd definitely use
plumber's putty.

Someone said that "putty" is simply clay mixed with linseed oil. That
is correct. GLAZING putty, which is used on old windows is nothing more
than linseed oil mixed with clay. Plumber's putty is a different kettle
of fish because it doesn't harden the way glazing putty does. If you
buy a tub of plumber's putty, the surface of it won't get hard when
exposed to air the way glazing putty will. I really don't know the
difference between glazing putty and plumber's putty, but if I had to
guess, my guess would be that unlike the linseed oil used in glazing
putty, plumber's putty uses a semi-drying oil.

Drying oils are those which dry to a solid when exposed to the oxygen in
the air. Such oils include linseed oil, Tung oil, walnut oil, poppyseed
oil, oiticia oil, safflower oil, Tall oil (which is a by-product of the
pulp and paper industry) and some oils derived from fish.

Non-drying oils are those which don't react with oxygen to transform
into a solid at all, and such oils would include crude oil, olive oil,
and palm tree oil.

However, there are also "semi-drying" oils with transform from a liquid
to a stiff liquid when exposed to the oxygen in the air, and such oils
would include soy bean oil.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that plumber's putty is clay mixed
with a semi-drying oil, like soy bean oil. Old plumber's putty is stiff
and breaks easily. But, it's not nearly as rigid as old glazing putty.

So, if this is a drop-in sink, yeah, go ahead and use plumber's putty.




--
nestork

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jan 12, 3:13 am, nestork <nestork.b36d...@diybanter.com> wrote:
> Novel8;2993987 Wrote:
>
> > I am going to install a vanity marble top with sink onto my vanity after
> > I take off the old, naturally. I have lots of plumber's putty which i
> > know i can use on the faucet drain, but could i also use it as a sealant
> > to my vanity?
>
> I'm wanting to clarify a few points here.
>
> Plumber's putty is NORMALLY used to seal between the lip and top of the
> counter top on a drop-in sink.  I really don't know if the same is true
> for undermount sinks, or not.

What do you do about the fact that it never hardens, is
sticky and gray? I sure would not want it at the perimeter of my
sink,
wrong color and dirt attractant.
White sink with gray line at the bottom? Makes no sense to me
when clear silicone or similar caulks are available and
even come in colors.

[dadiOH]

nestork wrote:

> Someone said that "putty" is simply clay mixed with linseed oil. That
> is correct. GLAZING putty, which is used on old windows is nothing
> more than linseed oil mixed with clay. Plumber's putty is a
> different kettle of fish because it doesn't harden the way glazing
> putty does. If you buy a tub of plumber's putty, the surface of it
> won't get hard when exposed to air the way glazing putty will. I
> really don't know the difference between glazing putty and plumber's
> putty, but if I had to guess, my guess would be that unlike the
> linseed oil used in glazing putty, plumber's putty uses a semi-drying
> oil.
>
> Drying oils are those which dry to a solid when exposed to the oxygen
> in the air. Such oils include linseed oil, Tung oil, walnut oil,
> poppyseed oil, oiticia oil, safflower oil, Tall oil (which is a
> by-product of the pulp and paper industry) and some oils derived from
> fish.
>
> Non-drying oils are those which don't react with oxygen to transform
> into a solid at all, and such oils would include crude oil, olive oil,
> and palm tree oil.

Plus mineral oils.
___________

> My guess, and it's only a guess, is that plumber's putty is clay mixed
> with a semi-drying oil, like soy bean oil.

Clay along with other minerals such as (primarily) calcium carbonate, talk,
silica, etc.
_______________

> So, if this is a drop-in sink, yeah, go ahead and use plumber's putty.

+1

[Vic Smith]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:13:16 +0000, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>
>Yes, most plumbers probably would use silicone caulk as the sealant
>under a drop-in kitchen sink,

This the only thing I disagree with. Always see plumbers putty
recommended for setting a sink.
Nice write-up. Never even thought about the types of oils used.
Though I don't claim any expertise in putties/dopes, I'm pretty sure
old-timers commonly coated steel/iron pipe with a type of simple
plumber's putty made with drying oils.
I took apart plenty of 40-60 year old fittings back in the '60's
where it wasn't wiped clean on the outside, and it looked more like
putty than a less viscous dope. Dried hard as a rock, inside and out.
Pretty sure they used linseed oil an dopes and putties then.
Late '60's was about the time they started using Teflon in dope, but
they also had plenty of suitable non-Teflon dopes.
Lots of advances in chemistry. Same with Permatex on the automotive
side. They used to have something like #1, 2, 3 and a hi-tack, now
they have so many products you have to think about it.
Anyway, what old-time plumbers used is hard to determine, mostly
because plumbers didn't keep journals.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jan 12, 11:29 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:13:16 +0000, nestork
>

> <nestork.b36d...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
> >Yes, most plumbers probably would use silicone caulk as the sealant
> >under a drop-in kitchen sink,
>
> This the only thing I disagree with.  Always see plumbers putty
> recommended for setting a sink.
> Nice write-up.  Never even thought about the types of oils used.
> Though I don't claim any expertise in putties/dopes, I'm pretty sure
> old-timers commonly coated steel/iron pipe with a type of simple
> plumber's putty made with drying oils.

The obvious lack of logic there noted.

> I took apart plenty of 40-60 year old fittings back in the '60's
> where it wasn't wiped clean on the outside, and it looked more like
> putty than a less viscous dope.  Dried hard as a rock, inside and out.

That's what happens with pipe dope after decades. It
doesn't mean that it was plumbers putty to begin with.

> Pretty sure they used linseed oil an dopes and putties then.
> Late '60's was about the time they started using Teflon in dope, but
> they also had plenty of suitable non-Teflon dopes.
> Lots of advances in chemistry.  Same with Permatex on the automotive
> side.  They used to have something like #1, 2, 3 and a hi-tack, now
> they have so many products you have to think about it.
> Anyway, what old-time plumbers used is hard to determine, mostly
> because plumbers didn't keep journals.

What old time plumbers used is largely irrelevant because
there are better alternatives today. In my world for caulking
around a sink in a vanity, that is silicone sealant.

[Vic Smith]

I used plumbers putty to set my current sink. There's no gaps because
it's virtually flush with the counter. Does take about 5 minutes of
wipe down to eliminate the excess. But I can't see a putty line.
Since the sink is a mid-grade SS, pretty sure I would bend and ruin
the lip if I set it in silicone and had to take it out again.
Silicone acts as an adhesive.

[Cage]

"Novel8" <kore...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfef9cfb-da14-492d...@googlegroups.com...

Being most people will find their way to Google, instead of a newsgroup,
I'm surprised you asked here.

Take that plumber's putty and stick it up your ass. It may clog you up for
a while, it will always break free since you're walking around with you
thumb up your ass.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jan 12, 11:40 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 06:03:17 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"

> Silicone acts as an adhesive.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've pulled plenty of things apart that used silicone and
unless you use a lot of it, it's not hard at all to seperate.
Silicone has give, the sink starts to lift, you put a
putty knife under it, etc.

Anyone can use whatever they want. But there are
plenty of pros out there using silicone.

[Vic Smith]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:39:27 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Jan 12, 11:29 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:13:16 +0000, nestork
>>
>> <nestork.b36d...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Yes, most plumbers probably would use silicone caulk as the sealant
>> >under a drop-in kitchen sink,
>>
>> This the only thing I disagree with.  Always see plumbers putty
>> recommended for setting a sink.
>> Nice write-up.  Never even thought about the types of oils used.
>> Though I don't claim any expertise in putties/dopes, I'm pretty sure
>> old-timers commonly coated steel/iron pipe with a type of simple
>> plumber's putty made with drying oils.
>
>The obvious lack of logic there noted.
>

Let me just say here, before reading on, fuck you.

Oh, there's nothing else even worth commenting on. Just this one
gratuitous insult.
So I can only add, "fuck you - dipshit."

[Vic Smith]

Yeah, sure dipshit. BTW, fuck you.

[Doug]

Personally I think you are a gun crazed idiot but on this subject,
I'll have to agree with you :( . Most plumbers and sinks I see
now (top mounted) use silicone and I agree it's not that hard to
remove unless you use a lot or perhaps a wrong type. Another concern
is mold and I think the silicone will resist it much better where it
makes contact with water.

[nestork]

NestorK wrote:
"Plumber's putty is normally used to seal between the lip and top of the

counter top on a drop-in sink."

'tra...@optonline.net[_2_ Wrote:
> ;2995040']

> What do you do about the fact that it never hardens, is
> sticky and gray? I sure would not want it at the perimeter of my
> sink, wrong color and dirt attractant.
> White sink with gray line at the bottom? Makes no sense to me
> when clear silicone or similar caulks are available and
> even come in colors.

Trader4:

You won't see a gray line.

On stainless steel drop in sinks, the lip is curved so as to be concave
down. So, when you tighten the sink clamps, the perimeter of the lip
will make contact with the counter top first. So, after you remove any
excess putty on the counter that oozed out while you were tightening the
sink clamps, there won't be any plumber's putty showing around the
sink.

If you're sink isn't stainless steel, you can remove any excess
plumber's putty by simply wiping down the perimeter of the sink with a
rag or paper towel damp with mineral spirits. Or, remove the excess
plumber's putty and caulk around the sink with silicone if the lip is
thick enough.

But, you are correct in that both silicone and plumber's putty are used
to seal around the perimeter of a drop-in sink.




--
nestork

[chaniarts]

glazing putty is non-boiled linseed oil mixed with calcium carbonate,
which is not clay.

>
> Drying oils are those which dry to a solid when exposed to the oxygen in
> the air. Such oils include linseed oil, Tung oil, walnut oil, poppyseed
> oil, oiticia oil, safflower oil, Tall oil (which is a by-product of the
> pulp and paper industry) and some oils derived from fish.

they don't dry. they polymerize.

[nestork]

'chaniarts[_3_ Wrote:
> ;2996483']

> glazing putty is non-boiled linseed oil mixed with calcium carbonate,
> which is not clay.
>

The solid stuff used to make glazing putty is just a filler. It doesn't
matter what you mix the linseed oil with. It could be anything that's
cheap and easy to grind into a fine powder.

'chaniarts[_3_ Wrote:
> ;2996483']

> they don't dry. they polymerize.

No, that part I fully understand.

Muck dries to form mud. If you get mud wet, it turns back into muck
again.
Cement cures to form concrete, but concrete doesn't soften up again if
it gets wet.
It's the chemical reaction(s) that occur in concrete (but not in mud)
during the "drying" process that make it irreversible.

But, I wouldn't say that "polymerize" is a good word to use here either.
In order to have a polymer, you need to have multiple "mers", each of
which is chemically identical to all the other mers. In vegetable oils,
you have multiple different kinds of fatty acids in every different kind
of vegetable oil. Linseed oil, for example contains linolenic acid,
linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid, stearic acid and I expect
trace amounts of other fatty acids as well. And, the crosslinking that
occurs as it "dries" to form a solid is as likely to happen between
unsaturated sites on the same linseed oil molecule as it is between
unsaturated sites on the fatty acids of neighboring linseed oil
molecules. So, you don't have the repeating pattern that you find in
polymers like polyethylene or polypropylene, say. The only chemical
group you'll find consistantly repeated a substantial number of times in
dried linseed oil would be the oxygen crosslinks themselves, and I'm not
sure that would be enough to call dried linseed oil a "polymer".

I think it would be better to say that drying oils "cure" to form a
solid when exposed to oxygen cuz the solid they form doesn't consist of
the same chemical group(s) repeated over and over and over again in any
regular or predictable pattern.




--
nestork

[chaniarts]

we're both right, but it's not really called drying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil

Linseed oil is a "drying oil", as it can polymerize into a solid form.
Due to its polymer-forming properties, linseed oil is used on its own or
blended with other oils, resins, and solvents as an impregnator and
varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a
plasticizer and hardener in putty and in the manufacture of linoleum.
The use of linseed oil has declined over the past several decades with
the increased use of synthetic alkyd resins, which function similarly
but resist yellowing.[1]