Ventilation for Water Well

[lost woods]

I had a new well dug for the house water supply (200' deep in basalt,
25 gpm) after the old well gave up the ghost.

I decided I did not like the looks of the casing, pipes, electric
connections, etc. sticking up 2 feet out of the ground (the old well
was 60 years old and all that stuff was buried underground -- can't do
that anymore).

So, I wrapped the pipes in a bunch of insulation. It looks even
worse. I am thinking about getting one of those fake boulders to
cover the pipes. I looked at them at the home center, figure I will
use sprayfoam to add further insulation inside the boulder.

But, as the fake rock has no vent holes, and I know the well needs
some sort of air supply (or why would it have a vent pipe), I thought
I would drill three 3/4" holes in the back of the "rock" and glue some
gray window screen over the holes. That should be enough air, I
assume?

[Tony Miklos]

I haven't seen a recently drilled well. Does it really have a vent?
And why are the water pipes not underground were they don't need
insulation? Please give us a link to some pictures, I just gotta see
this mess.

[RBM]

On 10/6/2011 7:17 PM, lost woods wrote:

The only pipe, other than the casing, I would expect to see above
ground, would be the electric line, coming up into the head cover. The
water line should exit the casing underground, below the frost line via
a pitless adapter.

[lost woods]

Well (HAHA), Guys, I agree with you about it all should be
underground, but the government in these parts has declared that
ground is dirty and all parts of the well should rise above said dirt.

In the old days, all that was above ground was the vent. No problem
with freezing. And it did not look so bad.

Now, the casing has to be two feet above the ground and the vent,
water supply line and electrical all has to come out of the top of the
"sealed" casing and feed into the ground.

No way around it. If you have an old well and do any work whatsoever
on it, you are required to bring it all above ground. I don't have a
digital camera, so no pix for you. Maybe someone else will oblige. I
don't like it, but have to live with it.

BTW, no one answered my question...

[lost woods]

OK, I found one sort of bad picture of a "new" approved type well:

http://www.wrd.state.or.us/OWRD/GW/well_id.shtml

[Robert Neville]

lost woods <indig...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well (HAHA), Guys, I agree with you about it all should be
>underground, but the government in these parts has declared that
>ground is dirty and all parts of the well should rise above said dirt.

I think you need to talk to your local code officer. While it's quite common to
require that the well casing be brought 18" above grade and surrounded with a
concrete pad, I've never seen any code require that the power and water lines
exit through the cap. The requirement is there to keep surface ground water from
seeping into the casing, but as the other poster said, there are sealed fittings
for power and water below grade.

[Robert Neville]

lost woods <indig...@gmail.com> wrote:

>OK, I found one sort of bad picture of a "new" approved type well:
>
>http://www.wrd.state.or.us/OWRD/GW/well_id.shtml

You really do need to talk to your code person. I did find the statute in the
link you provided and it expressly allows pitless adapters:

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_600/oar_690/690_210.html

See starting with section 690-210-0260 Openings in the Casing

[Sjouke Burry]

lost woods <indig...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6fadea7e-b690-40bc-846f-
ab6f47...@q13g2000vby.googlegroups.com:

Hm... Use two sets of pipes, one set well below freezing level,
the other set(unused) to please the inspector?

[j...@myplace.com]

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:57:53 -0600, Robert Neville <do...@bother.com>
wrote:

You cant do that sort of thing in the northern part of the US. The
pipes will freeze. They use a pitless adaptor and it all goes
underground to the house basement or into heated paret of house if
there is no basement. I agree having the casing above any possible
flood stage is not only required but makes sense, but the water pipe
can not be above ground in freezing climates. Normally the electric
conduit has always come out the well cap. A vent pipe was always a
pipe on the cap with a two elbows so the open end pointed downward and
has a bug screen on the end. Wells MUST vent.

[Jack Schmidt]

Tell them you are fracking for natural gas.

That way these silly pollution laws won't apply to you and
you can dump any chemical you want down the well.

[Dave M.]

My well has a small copper vent pipe (5/8ths"?) and so I doubt you need
a hole larger than the copper pipe in these fake boulders. I think that the
boulders are a clever idea. How will they hold up with time? What happens
when you hit them with the weed wacker?
Where I live it's usual to have the everything enclosed in a small
building, about the size of a dog house.

[tra...@optonline.net]

I think the OP is confused with what he has. Just had
a well drilled here in NJ and the casing does extend up
a couple feet above grade. However the water pipe is
buried below grade and connected via a pitless adaptor
which is standard practice today. As RBM pointed out
the only other pipe coming out of the top of the well is
the conduit for the electrical connection. The well has
no vent, nor is one required. There are plenty of older
wells around here where the whole thing is below
ground.

As far as covering up what he has, I doubt freezing
is a concern. If it were, the well folks would have to
be idiots and surely should have addressed this with
him. It would be ultimate incompetence to drill a
well and leave it so it could freeze. So, I'd say if he
wants to use a fake rock to hide it, just do it.

[Jules Richardson]

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:41:13 -0500, jw wrote:

> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:57:53 -0600, Robert Neville <do...@bother.com>
> wrote:
>
>>lost woods <indig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well (HAHA), Guys, I agree with you about it all should be underground,
>>>but the government in these parts has declared that ground is dirty and
>>>all parts of the well should rise above said dirt.
>>
>>I think you need to talk to your local code officer. While it's quite
>>common to require that the well casing be brought 18" above grade and
>>surrounded with a concrete pad, I've never seen any code require that
>>the power and water lines exit through the cap. The requirement is there
>>to keep surface ground water from seeping into the casing, but as the
>>other poster said, there are sealed fittings for power and water below
>>grade.
>
> You cant do that sort of thing in the northern part of the US. The
> pipes will freeze. They use a pitless adaptor and it all goes
> underground to the house basement or into heated paret of house if there
> is no basement.

Yes, ours is all about 7' below ground, with only the well cap sticking
up above by about 8". We're lucky in that the well's shallow enough (80'
I think) for a jet-pump setup, so the pump and electrical are all in the
house basement.

> Wells MUST vent.

Hmm, ours doesn't - the only lines to the house are the feed from the
well and the return line for the jet. Even if the well cap were
ventilated somehow (and it doesn't seem to be) it still ends up buried
beneath snow and ice for a good portion of the year, so a vent would be
pointless.

cheers

Jules

[jamesgangnc]

On Oct 7, 8:59 am, Jules Richardson

<jules.richardsonnews...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:41:13 -0500, jw wrote:

> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:57:53 -0600, Robert Neville <d...@bother.com>
> > wrote:

> Jules- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The reason for the code change is the issue of surface water
accidentally entering the ground water supply. By requireing 2 feet
of casing above the ground level the chances of that are greatly
diminished. Before some of you chime in, I get that in many cases it
is not really a problem. But they write code for the problem cases
and if they add "exceptions" it starts getting subjective. So most
juristictions now require the casing to continue above the ground for
2 feet. Even if the well is improperly abandoned, which happens more
than you would imagine, it's still pretty safe.

It's fine to cover the whole mess with one of those foam rocks. I'd
either do that or build a small wood well house about 2x2x3. You
don't need to make holes or vents.

[Tony Miklos]

But the pitless has to be 12" above grade or floor.

690-210-0250

Top Terminal Height

(1) The casing head or pitless unit of any well shall extend a minimum
of 12 inches above the finished ground surface or pumphouse floor, and a
minimum of 12 inches above the local surface runoff level.

I'd think they would at least finish off the well enough so that it
doesn't freeze. That's some weird codes there.

[Harry K]

People still build those things? About the stupidest way to have a
well known to man. The tank and all controls belong in a frost free
space where it is easy to work on them. One of the most miserable
working conditions in the world is trying to do something in one of
those holes in the ground, crouched down, with barely enough room to
move and yet still haveing to use tools.

There are stills ome of those around here but not on any well drilled
in the past 20 or so years.

Harry K

[lost woods]

Well -- a couple of you did answer the question.....and the comment
about the vent pipe only being a fraction of an inch makes a lot of
sense, so I think I am good to go with the mock rock and the drilled
holes. I'm screening the holes to keep out the wasps/yellowjackets in
the summer.

Don't know anything about the actual codes, I do know all the wells
I've seen around here that have been drilled in the last decade or so
all look like that one in the picture link I posted. The picture is
taken from the opposite side of the casing, but you can see the white
PVC water pipe and the gray electric conduit exiting the top of the
casing and going underground.

Can't see the vent too well on the photo, but I can barely make it
out.

Anyway, we seldom get below freezing here (it does happen though),
which is why I wanted to insulate the pipes.

And, yes you do see some creative covers for the casing/pipes. Mock
dog houses, mock "crank-up the bucket" wells, Mock gnome houses, etc.
I considered those, but the rock has three eight-inch spikes and I
will "set it" in the dirt, so while it will be relatively stable, it
will be easy to remove and provide wide open working space if it is
needed.

Thanks for the help.

[Harry K]

> don't need to make holes or vents.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, it is required to stick up above ground. NO it does not require
the water pipe to stick up like that.

Harry K

[Harry K]

On Oct 7, 5:17 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

I'd have to look but I don't think mine even has that. Those usual
well cover caps are not an airtight fixture.

Harry K

[Robert Neville]

Harry K <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Those usual well cover caps are not an airtight fixture.

They are around here. Big neoprene gasket all around the inside of the cap.Well
gets sealed after sanitizing.

[Robert Neville]

Robert Neville <do...@bother.com> wrote:

>They are around here. Big neoprene gasket all around the inside of the cap.Well
>gets sealed after sanitizing.

This is a pretty good description of the different types of well caps.

http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/XH0011.pdf

Turns out even the sanitary caps do allow some air exchange, so they aren't
completely sealed.

[Reno]

lost woods <indig...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cc303e94-df28-48c1-b461-
09f18e...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com:

> Well -- a couple of you did answer the question.....and the comment
> about the vent pipe only being a fraction of an inch makes a lot of
> sense, so I think I am good to go with the mock rock and the drilled
> holes. I'm screening the holes to keep out the wasps/yellowjackets in
> the summer.
>
> Don't know anything about the actual codes, I do know all the wells
> I've seen around here that have been drilled in the last decade or so
> all look like that one in the picture link I posted. The picture is
> taken from the opposite side of the casing, but you can see the white
> PVC water pipe and the gray electric conduit exiting the top of the
> casing and going underground.
>

You don't need to worry about venting the well. It is not like a tank
where air must get in so water can get out. Water comes into the well
from the groundwater acquier. This replaces the water pumped out and it
is not necessary for any air to vent. When the pump starts the water
level in the well will get drawn down and if air can't get in there may
be a negative pressure for a few minutes which actually helps because the
reduced pressure in the well helps draw more water from the ground.

I have two wells for geothermal heating and I have fake boulders on each
of them. My boulders come from a concrete brick supplier and are made
from concrete with rock powder mixed in for color. The walls of the
boulders are about an inch thick and they are natural rough shapes about
30' x 24" x 18"high. They are pretty heavy - I can lift one end and
rotate it myself to access the well but I can't pick it up and carry it.
The fake boulder is as tough as very hard concrete and can stand a lot of
abuse with no noticeable marks.

I have a retaining wall about 18" high making a raised circular
ornamental area about 8' in diameter. I have a 4" thick layer of clean
round stone around the well and sit the boulder on top of the stones and
rake a few stones up around the boulder so you can't see the straight
line bottom. If you sat your boulder on similar clean round stone then
you would get plenty of air movement for venting if you are worried about
that. I am in Winnipeg where we get at least 5 months of way below
freezing temperatures and I have never had any freezing or even much
frosting under the boulder. I am using pitless adaptors with the water
lines well below the frost line.

The setup in the picture with the water line coming out the top of the
well would freeze solid around here the first time the pump stopped for
an hour.

[bob haller]

On Oct 9, 8:44 pm, Reno <nos...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> lost woods <indigosk...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cc303e94-df28-48c1-b461-
> 09f18eaec...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com:

your better off vented if radon gas is a issue in your area