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Plumbers! Can I hydro jet my 50-year-old orangeberg drain?
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vwalton
May 6, 2015, 12:57:25 PM5/6/15
to
My guy wants to hydro jet our drain. I know that it transitions at some point from iron to orangeberg, and from what I know of orangeberg I'm afraid that it's likely to blow it out. Is that a legitimate fear?
bob haller
May 6, 2015, 2:55:53 PM5/6/15
to
On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4, vwalton wrote:
> My guy wants to hydro jet our drain. I know that it transitions at some point from iron to orangeberg, and from what I know of orangeberg I'm afraid that it's likely to blow it out. Is that a legitimate fear?
yep its well know to be a POS...
> My guy wants to hydro jet our drain. I know that it transitions at some point from iron to orangeberg, and from what I know of orangeberg I'm afraid that it's likely to blow it out. Is that a legitimate fear?
If its deep, and under high value stuff I would price gettingthe orangeburgh lined
bob haller
May 6, 2015, 2:57:40 PM5/6/15
to
it will be hard to sell your home in the future. you will HAVE to disclose the orangeburg
EXT
May 7, 2015, 10:03:06 AM5/7/15
to
"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9b0a60e4-e8e2-4e7f...@googlegroups.com...
floors, Orangeburg sewer line. Around here high voltage transmission towers
close to a house are often listed as "green space".
trader_4
May 8, 2015, 9:23:18 AM5/8/15
to
in the drain pipe system? Disclosure laws vary from state to state, but
I'll bet none require disclosing it. NJ certainly doesn't require
disclosing it, as long as to the best of your knowledge it's
working OK. Most homeowners wouldn't even know what they have it.
Now if whatever pipe he has is getting clogged up regularly, it's
been a continual problem, the underlying cause hasn't been fixed,
then I would agree that would need to be disclosed. But that's
without regard to what kind of pipe it is.
Also, it sounds like it's being assumed that the "drain" is the
sewer, which it may be because he says it transitions from iron,
but it could be some other type of drain, eg, for gutters, etc.
where orangeburg is also used.
bob haller
May 8, 2015, 5:34:04 PM5/8/15
to
some months later the line backed up, the new owner went after the old owner who had to pay 10 grand for a new sewer line. plus restoration of the yard.
all avoidable if she had disclosed it at house sale time.
i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
trader_4
May 9, 2015, 9:36:52 AM5/9/15
to
On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 5:34:04 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 9:23:18 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:57:40 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:55:53 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4, vwalton wrote:
> > > > > My guy wants to hydro jet our drain. I know that it transitions at some point from iron to orangeberg, and from what I know of orangeberg I'm afraid that it's likely to blow it out. Is that a legitimate fear?
> > > >
> > > > yep its well know to be a POS...
> > > >
> > > > If its deep, and under high value stuff I would price gettingthe orangeburgh lined
> > >
> > > Although I am not a plumber/
> > >
> > > it will be hard to sell your home in the future. you will HAVE to disclose the orangeburg
> >
> > Here we go again. What law says you have to disclose having orangeburg
> > in the drain pipe system? Disclosure laws vary from state to state, but
> > I'll bet none require disclosing it. NJ certainly doesn't require
> > disclosing it, as long as to the best of your knowledge it's
> > working OK. Most homeowners wouldn't even know what they have it.
> > Now if whatever pipe he has is getting clogged up regularly, it's
> > been a continual problem, the underlying cause hasn't been fixed,
> > then I would agree that would need to be disclosed. But that's
> > without regard to what kind of pipe it is.
> >
> > Also, it sounds like it's being assumed that the "drain" is the
> > sewer, which it may be because he says it transitions from iron,
> > but it could be some other type of drain, eg, for gutters, etc.
> > where orangeburg is also used.
>
> my neighbor failed to disclose a known issue witha occasionally faulty sewer line, and sold the home.
>
Knowing you have a drain line that has a regular issue where it
> On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 9:23:18 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:57:40 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:55:53 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4, vwalton wrote:
> > > > > My guy wants to hydro jet our drain. I know that it transitions at some point from iron to orangeberg, and from what I know of orangeberg I'm afraid that it's likely to blow it out. Is that a legitimate fear?
> > > >
> > > > yep its well know to be a POS...
> > > >
> > > > If its deep, and under high value stuff I would price gettingthe orangeburgh lined
> > >
> > > Although I am not a plumber/
> > >
> > > it will be hard to sell your home in the future. you will HAVE to disclose the orangeburg
> >
> > Here we go again. What law says you have to disclose having orangeburg
> > in the drain pipe system? Disclosure laws vary from state to state, but
> > I'll bet none require disclosing it. NJ certainly doesn't require
> > disclosing it, as long as to the best of your knowledge it's
> > working OK. Most homeowners wouldn't even know what they have it.
> > Now if whatever pipe he has is getting clogged up regularly, it's
> > been a continual problem, the underlying cause hasn't been fixed,
> > then I would agree that would need to be disclosed. But that's
> > without regard to what kind of pipe it is.
> >
> > Also, it sounds like it's being assumed that the "drain" is the
> > sewer, which it may be because he says it transitions from iron,
> > but it could be some other type of drain, eg, for gutters, etc.
> > where orangeburg is also used.
>
> my neighbor failed to disclose a known issue witha occasionally faulty sewer line, and sold the home.
>
doesn't work, backs up, requires non-routine attention, is different
from what material your drain line is made from. I agree that if
you have a sewer line that is regularly getting clogged, you know
about it, then disclosure is typically required and if you don't
disclose it, you may be liable.
> some months later the line backed up, the new owner went after the old owner who had to pay 10 grand for a new sewer line. plus restoration of the yard.
>
> all avoidable if she had disclosed it at house sale time.
>
> i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
form, everywhere. It's not on the NJ list of disclosure questions, nothing
even close to it is. If you have a link to that disclosure form,
I'd be happy to see it.
Mayhem
May 9, 2015, 9:43:17 AM5/9/15
to
On 05/08/2015 05:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
> my neighbor failed to disclose a known issue witha occasionally faulty sewer line, and sold the home.
>
> some months later the line backed up, the new owner went after the old owner who had to pay 10 grand for a new sewer line. plus restoration of the yard.
>
> all avoidable if she had disclosed it at house sale time.
There are many real estate contracts which can be used in a transaction; one of which is the "as is" contract.
> my neighbor failed to disclose a known issue witha occasionally faulty sewer line, and sold the home.
>
> some months later the line backed up, the new owner went after the old owner who had to pay 10 grand for a new sewer line. plus restoration of the yard.
>
> all avoidable if she had disclosed it at house sale time.
I would suggest a lawyer draft the contract in order to protect the seller from future litigation.
Oren
May 9, 2015, 10:02:45 AM5/9/15
to
On Sat, 9 May 2015 06:36:48 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
>
>Because it's on one form, someplace, doesn't mean it's on every
>form, everywhere. It's not on the NJ list of disclosure questions, nothing
>even close to it is. If you have a link to that disclosure form,
>I'd be happy to see it.
I found a sample form for Pennsylvania. It does not mention
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
>
>Because it's on one form, someplace, doesn't mean it's on every
>form, everywhere. It's not on the NJ list of disclosure questions, nothing
>even close to it is. If you have a link to that disclosure form,
>I'd be happy to see it.
"orangeburg" specifically.
Page 4, Section 10, (G) 2. does mention leaks, backups, etc...
<http://www.parealtor.org/clientuploads/StandardForms/Sample_Forms/SPD.pdf>
trader_4
May 9, 2015, 10:43:51 AM5/9/15
to
They have a section on "sewer system" and as you say, it doesn't mention
orangeburg or ask anything there that I can see that would require
saying anything, if OB was present.
In the next section, titled "plumbing system", it has a checklist for
various plumbing system pipe materials. Orangeburg is not listed, but
there is a blank space for "other". You could interpret "plumbing system"
to include sewer system, in which case if you knew you had OB, then you
would be required to add it. However sewer systems are covered in the
previous section. And the list of piping materials is for fresh water
type pipe materials. For example, cast iron, which would be a prime
sewage system material, is not even on their list. So, I'd say the correct
interpretation is that they are talking about fresh water plumbing
in that section of the form, not sewers and you can honestly fill out
the form without adding OB.
trader_4
May 9, 2015, 10:55:11 AM5/9/15
to
at the time of sale, what would the buyer do? Just pay the same price
anyway? Most likely they would have wanted the 10K discount off the price.
So, strictly from a financial position, what's better? Taking a $10K for
sure haircut today or taking the chance that the buyer *might* come after
you at some point in the future and *try* to recover? At which point you
could say, get lost, I'll give you $3K, $5k to settle, etc.
Note I'm not saying if you have a real known problem that is required
by law to be disclosed, you shouldn't disclose it. Just that disclosing
stuff that isn't required to be disclosed on the theory that someone
might come after you later, doesn't make sense to me. If a disclosure
form requires you to answer about orangeburg and you know you have it,
then I would agree it should be disclosed. But just because you know
you have it, if there isn't some actual ongoing problem, I would not
be telling anyone about it.
W2 Wage Slave
May 9, 2015, 11:56:32 AM5/9/15
to
On 05/09/2015 10:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> Note I'm not saying if you have a real known problem that is required
> by law to be disclosed, you shouldn't disclose it. Just that disclosing
> stuff that isn't required to be disclosed on the theory that someone
> might come after you later, doesn't make sense to me. If a disclosure
> form requires you to answer about orangeburg and you know you have it,
> then I would agree it should be disclosed. But just because you know
> you have it, if there isn't some actual ongoing problem, I would not
> be telling anyone about it.
Didn't we learn anything from the Clintons? Even perjury is legal if done properly.
> Note I'm not saying if you have a real known problem that is required
> by law to be disclosed, you shouldn't disclose it. Just that disclosing
> stuff that isn't required to be disclosed on the theory that someone
> might come after you later, doesn't make sense to me. If a disclosure
> form requires you to answer about orangeburg and you know you have it,
> then I would agree it should be disclosed. But just because you know
> you have it, if there isn't some actual ongoing problem, I would not
> be telling anyone about it.
bob haller
May 9, 2015, 12:21:15 PM5/9/15
to
anyone can do anything. as my neighbor found out spending about 15% of the homes value to take care of the cots of a known issue.
now lets say OP fails to disclose it, and later gets the line hrdro jetted, at which point the line totally collapses and must be replaced....
the disclosure forms I signed had places like is their anything else that can effect the home??
there were news reports of a seller that failed to disclose a murder had been commited in the home......
they got sued for big bucks
remember getting sued will likely require hiring a lawyer, to protect you. they can be very costly
now lets say OP fails to disclose it, and later gets the line hrdro jetted, at which point the line totally collapses and must be replaced....
the disclosure forms I signed had places like is their anything else that can effect the home??
there were news reports of a seller that failed to disclose a murder had been commited in the home......
they got sued for big bucks
remember getting sued will likely require hiring a lawyer, to protect you. they can be very costly
Oren
May 9, 2015, 12:52:09 PM5/9/15
to
On Sat, 9 May 2015 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
estate disclosure. Local "Burgs" may add other regulations or local
codes.
>In the next section, titled "plumbing system", it has a checklist for
>various plumbing system pipe materials. Orangeburg is not listed, but
>there is a blank space for "other". You could interpret "plumbing system"
>to include sewer system, in which case if you knew you had OB, then you
>would be required to add it. However sewer systems are covered in the
>previous section. And the list of piping materials is for fresh water
>type pipe materials. For example, cast iron, which would be a prime
>sewage system material, is not even on their list. So, I'd say the correct
>interpretation is that they are talking about fresh water plumbing
>in that section of the form, not sewers and you can honestly fill out
>the form without adding OB.
'I'm not a qualified plumber, yer honor :)
I sold a house in central PA moons ago. Some fool put the wrong home
inspection report in my file. Called me, said I had to fix the sewer.
Now I'm interested, ready for jihad.
When I got done with that phone call ... it was a hoot.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>On Saturday, May 9, 2015 at 10:02:45 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 May 2015 06:36:48 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
>> >
>> >Because it's on one form, someplace, doesn't mean it's on every
>> >form, everywhere. It's not on the NJ list of disclosure questions, nothing
>> >even close to it is. If you have a link to that disclosure form,
>> >I'd be happy to see it.
>>
>> I found a sample form for Pennsylvania. It does not mention
>> "orangeburg" specifically.
>>
>> Page 4, Section 10, (G) 2. does mention leaks, backups, etc...
>>
>> <http://www.parealtor.org/clientuploads/StandardForms/Sample_Forms/SPD.pdf>
>
>Well.... like so many of these forms, that one is open to interpretation.
>They have a section on "sewer system" and as you say, it doesn't mention
>orangeburg or ask anything there that I can see that would require
>saying anything, if OB was present.
>
I'd say that sample form (rev 2/15) would be minimum state law real
>On Saturday, May 9, 2015 at 10:02:45 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 May 2015 06:36:48 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> i sold my moms home some years ago after she died. the disclosure form asked about every home system, and one disclosure question was does it have orangeburg?
>> >
>> >Because it's on one form, someplace, doesn't mean it's on every
>> >form, everywhere. It's not on the NJ list of disclosure questions, nothing
>> >even close to it is. If you have a link to that disclosure form,
>> >I'd be happy to see it.
>>
>> I found a sample form for Pennsylvania. It does not mention
>> "orangeburg" specifically.
>>
>> Page 4, Section 10, (G) 2. does mention leaks, backups, etc...
>>
>> <http://www.parealtor.org/clientuploads/StandardForms/Sample_Forms/SPD.pdf>
>
>Well.... like so many of these forms, that one is open to interpretation.
>They have a section on "sewer system" and as you say, it doesn't mention
>orangeburg or ask anything there that I can see that would require
>saying anything, if OB was present.
>
estate disclosure. Local "Burgs" may add other regulations or local
codes.
>In the next section, titled "plumbing system", it has a checklist for
>various plumbing system pipe materials. Orangeburg is not listed, but
>there is a blank space for "other". You could interpret "plumbing system"
>to include sewer system, in which case if you knew you had OB, then you
>would be required to add it. However sewer systems are covered in the
>previous section. And the list of piping materials is for fresh water
>type pipe materials. For example, cast iron, which would be a prime
>sewage system material, is not even on their list. So, I'd say the correct
>interpretation is that they are talking about fresh water plumbing
>in that section of the form, not sewers and you can honestly fill out
>the form without adding OB.
I sold a house in central PA moons ago. Some fool put the wrong home
inspection report in my file. Called me, said I had to fix the sewer.
Now I'm interested, ready for jihad.
When I got done with that phone call ... it was a hoot.
trader_4
May 9, 2015, 1:01:29 PM5/9/15
to
On Saturday, May 9, 2015 at 12:21:15 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> anyone can do anything. as my neighbor found out spending about 15% of the homes value to take care of the cots of a known issue.
>
You said they had to pay $10K, so doing the math, they sold
> anyone can do anything. as my neighbor found out spending about 15% of the homes value to take care of the cots of a known issue.
>
the house for $65K?
> now lets say OP fails to disclose it,
the existence of orangeburg pipe?
> and later gets the line hrdro jetted, at which point the line totally collapses and must be replaced....
>
else pointed out, it also depends on what the sales contract says
with regard to for example, selling it "as-is", with no warranties
expressed or implied, etc. At which
point you could tell them to get lost, or offer a couple thousand to
settle. From a practical standpoint, about all they could do is
threaten you or take you to small claims. It's not worth the cost
of a lawsuit on the chance you might prevail and recover the cost
of a new sewer line. Would you roll the dice, incur the legal fees?
You could wind up paying for the sewer line and an equal amount in
legal fees.
> the disclosure forms I signed had places like is their anything else that can effect the home??
>
as that. And even if they do, is the typical home seller supposed to be
an expert and predictor to somehow indentify *anything* that might affect
the home in the future?
> there were news reports of a seller that failed to disclose a murder had been commited in the home......
>
> they got sued for big bucks
>
> remember getting sued will likely require hiring a lawyer, to protect you. they can be very costly
bringing the suit, because they have to go first, so they are going
to start running up legal fees before the defendant.
You can live in perpetual fear of being sued. You can disclose anything
and everything under the sun, that isn't specifically required.
For example, you can go take a look at the roof to try to figure out
how much life it has left and then "disclose" that you *think*
that itmay only have 10 years left. Wait..... Maybe you're wrong
and it only has 5 years left, better make it
5 or 3 to be safe. So, now the buyer wants $10K off the price for a new roof.
I say, the roof isn't leaking, it's functional, not my problem. You want
to try to sue me later, if the roof leaks someday, go ahead, see how far
you get. I'm willing to take my chances.
Oren
May 9, 2015, 1:32:23 PM5/9/15
to
On Sat, 9 May 2015 10:01:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>You can live in perpetual fear of being sued. You can disclose anything
>and everything under the sun, that isn't specifically required.
>For example, you can go take a look at the roof to try to figure out
>how much life it has left and then "disclose" that you *think*
>that itmay only have 10 years left. Wait..... Maybe you're wrong
>and it only has 5 years left, better make it
>5 or 3 to be safe. So, now the buyer wants $10K off the price for a new roof.
>I say, the roof isn't leaking, it's functional, not my problem. You want
>to try to sue me later, if the roof leaks someday, go ahead, see how far
>you get. I'm willing to take my chances.
“Come and get me, Copper,”....
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>You can live in perpetual fear of being sued. You can disclose anything
>and everything under the sun, that isn't specifically required.
>For example, you can go take a look at the roof to try to figure out
>how much life it has left and then "disclose" that you *think*
>that itmay only have 10 years left. Wait..... Maybe you're wrong
>and it only has 5 years left, better make it
>5 or 3 to be safe. So, now the buyer wants $10K off the price for a new roof.
>I say, the roof isn't leaking, it's functional, not my problem. You want
>to try to sue me later, if the roof leaks someday, go ahead, see how far
>you get. I'm willing to take my chances.
Oren
May 9, 2015, 2:04:15 PM5/9/15
to
On Sat, 9 May 2015 09:21:11 -0700 (PDT), bob haller <hal...@aol.com>
wrote:
>the disclosure forms I signed had places like is their anything else that can effect the home??
>
Like Trader said. A far to open ended question. Be reasonable. Your
answer can be 'yes, Pears fall on the ground'. Leaves land on the
roof. Now and then a bird flies by... Sometimes ants crawl on the
ground.
A seller made a mistake with me while looking for a property. He
didn't show up at his home to show it. Allowed his young daughter to
allow us and my agent in the house. So I asked; "what is around
here"? The answer was a 'a pig farm and school'.
Make tracks feet!
>there were news reports of a seller that failed to disclose a murder had been commited in the home......
>
Not all localities, laws or jurisdictions require that disclosure. Is
a suicide in a home required to be disclosed. What about a "hoarder"
that has trash in the home and is found dead weeks later under trash?
Report and disclose the house had a 'bunch-a-trash'!
In Las Vegas you can have a grave on your property. You do have to
disclose that.
>they got sued for big bucks
>
/snort
>remember getting sued will likely require hiring a lawyer, to protect you. they can be very costly
10% of doctors and lawyers graduate at the bottom of the class. What
is your point? Live in fear (false evidence appearing real)?
wrote:
>the disclosure forms I signed had places like is their anything else that can effect the home??
>
answer can be 'yes, Pears fall on the ground'. Leaves land on the
roof. Now and then a bird flies by... Sometimes ants crawl on the
ground.
A seller made a mistake with me while looking for a property. He
didn't show up at his home to show it. Allowed his young daughter to
allow us and my agent in the house. So I asked; "what is around
here"? The answer was a 'a pig farm and school'.
Make tracks feet!
>there were news reports of a seller that failed to disclose a murder had been commited in the home......
>
a suicide in a home required to be disclosed. What about a "hoarder"
that has trash in the home and is found dead weeks later under trash?
Report and disclose the house had a 'bunch-a-trash'!
In Las Vegas you can have a grave on your property. You do have to
disclose that.
>they got sued for big bucks
>
>remember getting sued will likely require hiring a lawyer, to protect you. they can be very costly
is your point? Live in fear (false evidence appearing real)?
bob haller
May 9, 2015, 6:24:32 PM5/9/15
to
around here as is sales prices are very low, realtors tell me between 1/4 and 1/3rd off actual home value
15K is well above the small claims court level. it requires real lawyers and all the rest.
so do whatever you want. at the major risk to your wallet...
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