Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
G Mulcaster
cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
Thanks, Gary
Rich
"G Mulcaster" <mulcas...@XXXshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ram6v4t0jbpceph5a...@4ax.com...
I can say that based on three years of use, no.
Mike Paulsen
Most likely, yes. It's a weak acid and will react with the cement and
possibly the aggregate. I'd try to find another solution. (intended)
Oren
I use vinegar to clean hard water stains off of cement block walls. We
have hard water -- calcium leaches into the block. It is mild, and
after a short soak and scrub I rinse it off. A power washer would
cause more damage.
["It’s easy to see why vinegar has been around for thousands of
years—it has 1001 uses! From cooking and cleaning with vinegar, to
gardening and home remedies, white distilled vinegar is one of the
most versatile—and economical—products you can have on hand."]
Tony Hwang
Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic!
chri...@my-deja.com
> snip <
> Hmmm,
> Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic!
Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~
5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various
"flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar.
High school chemistry class strikes again!
Chris
Tony Hwang
When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux,
take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell
from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is
acidic, lemon is not.
Junior high science class strikes again!!
nor...@earthlink.net
Not so. All citrus has ascorbic acid.
Oren
wrote:
>Orange is
>acidic, lemon is not.
Ever get a squirt of lemon juice in your eye? It burns, thus acidic.
Watch out for paper cuts on the fingers and lemon juice...it burns
also!
olddog
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:I7MIl.50767$Qh6....@newsfe14.iad...
Sorry but vinegar is acidic or it's not vinegar. BTW: Vinegar is more acidic
than acid rain. So, yes, eventually it will eat away at even cement.
od
Han
news:ra6dnZjOi7OTCW7U...@earthlink.com:
Actually, citrus fruit has citric acid. Amazing! Three (3) carboxylic
acid moieties per molecule, hence it is capable of chelating (capturing)
calcium. That is the basis for use of citric acid (or trisodium citrate)
as anticoagulants (preventing platelet activation and blood clotting).
DAMHIKT
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Han
news:kCNIl.163199$4m1....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> Sorry but vinegar is acidic or it's not vinegar. BTW: Vinegar is more
> acidic than acid rain. So, yes, eventually it will eat away at even
> cement.
That will depend on the concentration of the acid. But it is rather well-
known that pure acetic acid (which by the way freezes at around 12 degrees
C, or around 53F IIRC) eats away stainless steel.
Stormin Mormon
well react wtih the paving.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:hRLIl.68109$_R4....@newsfe11.iad...
Stormin Mormon
if it bubbles. I'd have to guess it does.
So, you add some more vinegar acid to your stomach, and the
natural acid protection kicks in. Proving what?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:I7MIl.50767$Qh6....@newsfe14.iad...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<nor...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ra6dnZjOi7OTCW7U...@earthlink.com...
nor...@earthlink.net
sa...@dog.com
>On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:27:54 -0700, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>Orange is
>>acidic, lemon is not.
>
>Ever get a squirt of lemon juice in your eye? It burns, thus acidic.
>
A strong base will also burn your eye.
Mark
"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:16s6v4tvddjije04d...@4ax.com...
> ["It's easy to see why vinegar has been around for thousands of
> gardening and home remedies, white distilled vinegar is one of the
>
> http://www.vinegartips.com/
Thanks for the useful link!
Phisherman
<mulcas...@XXXshaw.ca> wrote:
Probably, but maybe to an extent you would not notice. Vinegar on
limestone makes it bubble carbon dioxide.
Caesar Romano
Wow dude. You don't know sh*t about chemistry.
dadiOH
Vinegar is acidic. Try testing with litmus paper. Or bicarbonate of soda.
Common sense prevails.
dadiOH
dadiOH
Being acidic, it *does* attack them; however, weak as it is, it would take
many, many applications to notice anything.
You can kill the moss with a dilute solution of chlorox, don't know if it
does weeds too. Salt - table or rock - should do the weeds and keep them
out for a while once it is watered in, maybe moss too. And as a last
resort, there is always Round-Up :)
dadiOH
sa...@dog.com
wrote:
Why is Roundup a "last resort"? It's very safe stuff, and quickly
breaks down harmlessly after doing it's job. It's even approved for
use with food crops. The only caution on the most concentrated version
is that it is an eye irritant. Apparently it's safe to drink right out
of the bottle, as there are no cautions whatsoever against it.
Safer than Clorox.
Phisherman
wrote:
>G Mulcaster wrote:
Salt or Chlorox are more hazardous than RoundUp. Salt is probably the
worse chemical to use if you are trying to protect nearby plants. Put
a layer of lime over moss to control it.
Jon Danniken
> Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
> cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
You are using the wrong chemicals. Use glyphosphate for the weeds and a
zinc formula for the moss; both are available as a concentrate to be mixed
with water and applied in accordance with the instructions. Both are safe
if used appropriately.
Trying to use folksy home remedies is going to cause more problems in the
long run than just using the proper, modern solution the first time.
Jon
stan
> Tony Hwang wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Vinegar is not a pure substance and thus has no specific chemical
formula. Vinegar is mainly water (H2O), but is also comprised of
acetic acidic (the carboxylic acid which gives vinegar its pungent/
sour smell). Acetic acid's formula is CH3COOH. Vinegar is a liquid
produced by the fermentation of alcohol into acetic acid as well as
other fermentation by-products. The acetic acid concentration ranges
typically from 4 to 8 percent by volume for table vinegar (typically
5%) and higher concentrations for pickling (up to 18%) although in
some countries the minimum strength may be less. Natural vinegars also
contain smaller amounts of tartaric acid, citric acid, and other
acids.
Mark
manner, would be any more damaging than the normal pollutants in the air or
rain. If it's worked for 3 years with no noticeable impact you are probably
safe to continue.
"G Mulcaster" <mulcas...@XXXshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ram6v4t0jbpceph5a...@4ax.com...
> Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
> cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>
> Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
>
> Thanks, Gary
>
Han
news:Tt%Il.114404$qO1....@newsfe13.iad:
> All the chemists aside, I doubt the vinegar, used occasionally in this
> manner, would be any more damaging than the normal pollutants in the
> air or rain. If it's worked for 3 years with no noticeable impact you
> are probably safe to continue.
Possibly safe, but if used too often, accumulating acid may (I said may)
eventually cause harm to vegetation or concrete.
YMMV <snicker>
JIMMIE
wrote:
Also he could probably need some lime added to his yard. Sounds like
it may be acidic and the vinegar is just making it worse in the long
run. Yards in southern states are rarely too alkiline. When I moved
into my current home I had a soil test done to see how much lime I
needed. It was so acidic I had to spread a truck load on it , wait a
year then check again to see how much more I would need.
Jimmie
dadiOH
> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:33:50 -0400, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> G Mulcaster wrote:
>>> Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
>>> cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>>>
>>> Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
>>
>> Being acidic, it *does* attack them; however, weak as it is, it
>> would take many, many applications to notice anything.
>>
>> You can kill the moss with a dilute solution of chlorox, don't know
>> if it does weeds too. Salt - table or rock - should do the weeds
>> and keep them out for a while once it is watered in, maybe moss too.
>> And as a last resort, there is always Round-Up :)
>>
>> dadiOH
>>
>
> Why is Roundup a "last resort"?
Think "tongue in cheek".
dadiOH
EXT
How much bad information can one thread contain. Lemons ARE acidic. Apple
cider vinegar IS acidic. Heartburn is not caused by too much acid but the
acid being pushed above the stomach onto sensitive tissues. Many people
don't have enough acid in the stomach to digest properly, and that can cause
heartburn, taking antacids can feel better because of less acid to cause
pain, but will hinder proper digestion further.
Frank
Essigs�ure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar.
Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the
German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic
acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar
nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisens�ure) which is found in
ants (Ameise).
Han
@news.eternal-september.org:
Same in Dutch:
Azijn is vinegar
Azijnzuur is acetic acid
Mier is ant
Mierezuur is formic acid
But the real point is that vinegar or dilute acetic acid solutions are
mild, but pure concentrated acetic acid is an aggressive acid, though not
an oxidant like sulfuric or nitric acids.
Frank
muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will attack cement and that no
oxidation is involved. Me, I would not use vinegar on cement to be on
the safe side. OP could run test and take a chip of brick and let sit
in vinegar.
Han
news:gt4amf$lrl$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
Brick is far from concrete. I don't think you can compare that.
Concrete is made with portland cement which is basic. Seems to me (but
I'm not really sure) that concrete would be slowly attacked by acid.
Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid (not concentrated, but I would
not drink it , while vinegar should be almost safe to drink - think
pickles). I think that muriatic acid etches concrete and cleans it for
instance for a repair, ensuring new concrete adheres properly.
HeyBub
>>
> Brick is far from concrete. I don't think you can compare that.
> Concrete is made with portland cement which is basic. Seems to me
> (but I'm not really sure) that concrete would be slowly attacked by
> acid. Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid (not concentrated,
> but I would not drink it , while vinegar should be almost safe to
> drink - think pickles). I think that muriatic acid etches concrete
> and cleans it for instance for a repair, ensuring new concrete
> adheres properly.
Safety Hint: Don't drink the pickle juice until all the pickles are gone or,
if you do, wear goggles.
G Mulcaster
>Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
>cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>
>Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
>
>Thanks, Gary
Thanks to everyone for your responses. On balance, it would appear
that vinegar is not the solution to use.
Time to come up with a plan "B".
Regards, Gary
Han
Plan "B": Boiling water, just pour, but it should really be as close to
boiling as you can get it there.
Frank
retaining wall and fireplace in family room, it's concrete cast in
individual brick form. In my case, these are white bricks and
impossible to get clean of fireplace soot.
Many years ago, I used muriatic acid for cleaning and etching basement
floor for painting. I'm sure a swabbing would just be neutralized and
this would hold for vinegar but a lot of acid would probably be corrosive.
ransley
> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster
>
> >Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
> >cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>
> >Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
>
> >Thanks, Gary
>
> Thanks to everyone for your responses. On balance, it would appear
> that vinegar is not the solution to use.
>
> Time to come up with a plan "B".
>
> Regards, Gary
Vinegar wont hurt anything, it evaporates to quickly and changes from
acid to neutral its interaction, even Muriatic evaporates and looses
its efectivness fast, it doesnt have the time necessary to do anything
but clean the top layer. In stone cleaniing after 5 minutes with
muriatic I find its done its job its deactivated mostly so you wash it
off
dpv...@gmail.com
Uncle Monster
> So this thread is real old.... I left 3 containers of white vinegar in a smooth paved garage over winter. Non of them busted that I could see but the vinegar must have leaked because the concrete has lightened in color and there are hundreds of small holes where it has begun to break down the concrete. (Only where the bottles were) The question I guess would remain... How much vinegar and how long. Vinegar does in fact ruin concrete, use at own risk..
[8~{} Uncle Time Monster
Fattio
This exchange is fascinating
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egbg...@gmail.com
cojb...@gmail.com
BurfordTJustice
<cojb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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cojb...@gmail.com
> Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
> cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>
>
> Thanks, Gary
oh DEAR , YOU all need to be sure of your chemistry before you go gabbling on (
with scanty knowledge . The words STRONG and WEAK have specific meanings in chemistry which are not the same meanings as in everyday use. Really don't understand the bit about" organic" CIDER vinegar nor being acidic . I would bet money that it is ! ( retired college chemistry lecturer (
cl...@snyder.on.ca
5% acetic acid straight from the bottle - not enough to etch
concrete.
gahe...@gmail.com
> Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
> cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds.
>
> Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers?
>
> Thanks, Gary