Google keeps a log of all your electronic parts, brakes, tools, and automotive tires digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.

[Arlen G. Holder]

Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
Google email?

If you're not aware of what's going on, I post this detailed example so
that you can be advised that Google apparently keeps a _separate_ log of
all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account, which is _separate_
from the normal privacy stuff that you can typically "pause" for privacy.

AFAIK, this is where your normal privacy stuff is set for Gmail accounts:
<https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>

This is the "special" scanning done of _all_ your tools/parts receipts:
<https://myaccount.google.com/purchases>

As far as I can tell, there's no way to turn this scanning off, where,
together, we can ascertain exactly _what_ Google considers the definition
of a "receipt", where the examples I found in _my_ email appear to include
_free_ stuff, and warranty registration cards, etc.

Since Usenet is a potluck picnic where adults strive to bring something of
value to the picnic table, I ask that you look at what is scanned in _your_
receipt cache, and report back to us so as to edify us of _other_ types of
"receipts" you find - where I will do my part by showing below the types of
things Google considers a "receipt" for this scanning & logging purpose.

Also, if you have special skills in the knowledge of _where_ we can
permanently turn this "receipt" scanning off, that would be helpful, since,
AFAICT, the best you can do, as shown here for an electronics purchase, as
far as I can tell at this point, is to completely delete the original
email:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTXjyRGR/purchase01.jpg>

One problem is that this scanning includes even _free_ electronics, tools,
and parts... for example, this femtocell cellular tower that my carrier
lent to me, at no cost, which is attached to my router to project as its
own micro tower (and my cellular repeater, which is another unit that the
carrier lent me, for free, since I'm thousands of feet on the top of a
mountain overlooking Silicon Valley, where my home is large & therefore
requires multiple cellular mini towers)
<https://i.postimg.cc/zDsZJNwN/purchase02.jpg>

Many of us are forced to purchase specialty electronics tools online, such
as is shown in this receipt for BMW factory & dealer diagnostic tools from
China, which, by the way, you can't obtain _except_ online, because this is
the both modified (i.e., hacked) versions of BMW coding software, and the
exact _same_ software that both the factory in Germany and the local
dealers use, including the ability to program the score of ECUs in the
bimmer (e.g.,EDIABAS, INPA, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, EasyDIS, DIS/GT1 &
Progman):
<https://i.postimg.cc/KvGVcYKd/purchase03.jpg>

Since I do all my own mechanical work, I learned to comprehend tire specs
so that I can purchase, online, the best tires possible, where I then have
them ship those tires to my home so that I can match mount and balance them
at my own convenience in my own garage, knowing the job is done perfectly
(you don't even want to know how many times tire shops cut corners in the
interest of "their" time and expense, when they are mounting & balancing
your tires!)
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6b5LpQh/purchase08.jpg>

Now, even Google knows that I save tons of money buying automotive
maintenance items online, where, for example, I got 6 better-than-OEM spec
tires for less than $100 each, match mounted, balanced, & installed.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCCVKctN/purchase09.jpg>

Google knows you've eliminated the middleman, for example, where I found
_errors_ in the printed specs for the government-mandated material,
manufacturer, date, and cold/hot friction codes stamped on brake pads &
shoes, such that the manufacturer of these friction materials appreciated
talking to me enough to ask the warehouse to give me a discount on order
for brake pads and shoes, which now Google keeps track of:
<https://i.postimg.cc/T1KLM4Lk/purchase07.jpg>

Outside of specialty electronics, tools, and automotive parts direct from
the manufacturer that you can only get on the net, here's a receipt for an
Amazon gift order from years ago, whom I'm sure many people buy from:
<https://i.postimg.cc/j2DbMQVY/purchase04.jpg>

Here's a receipt for clothing accessories bought from Nordstrom's:
<https://i.postimg.cc/pd2VvjN3/purchase06.jpg>

There's even a receipt containing all my details when I filled out a
tire-warranty registration card online with tire serial numbers:
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDmsBp3H/purchase05.jpg>

Unfortunately, I don't know yet how _turning off_ scanning is possible.
o Do you?

--
NOTE: Uesnet is a potluck picnic, where everyone proves their value added,
where jokes about deleting Google aren't helpful - but where advice for
turning this scanning off would take intelligence which would, therefore,
be helpful to share with everyone to improve our combined capabilities.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
>seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
>Google email?
>

REAL SIMPLE solution. Do NOT use G-Mail or ANY other FREE e-mail
service.

NOTHING is FREE. You pay for your FREE e-mail service by providing
Google or other providers with DATA and giving up all FREEDOM.

>If you're not aware of what's going on, I post this detailed example so
>that you can be advised that Google apparently keeps a _separate_ log of
>all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account, which is _separate_
>from the normal privacy stuff that you can typically "pause" for privacy.
>
>AFAIK, this is where your normal privacy stuff is set for Gmail accounts:
><https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>
>
>This is the "special" scanning done of _all_ your tools/parts receipts:
><https://myaccount.google.com/purchases>
>
>As far as I can tell, there's no way to turn this scanning off, where,
>together, we can ascertain exactly _what_ Google considers the definition
>of a "receipt", where the examples I found in _my_ email appear to include
>_free_ stuff, and warranty registration cards, etc.

DON'T USE GOOGLE. I use GOOGLE search engine, but I NEVER uses a
Google login.

If you dance with the devil - - - - (Jm M Smith) or (The Dictionary
of Modern Proverbs) too different results - Or the similar (Lie with
the devil" quote from the 1972 Andrew Sinclair novel Magog,

>Google knows you've eliminated the middleman, for example, where I found
>_errors_ in the printed specs for the government-mandated material,
>manufacturer, date, and cold/hot friction codes stamped on brake pads &
>shoes, such that the manufacturer of these friction materials appreciated
>talking to me enough to ask the warehouse to give me a discount on order
>for brake pads and shoes, which now Google keeps track of:
><https://i.postimg.cc/T1KLM4Lk/purchase07.jpg>
>
>Outside of specialty electronics, tools, and automotive parts direct from
>the manufacturer that you can only get on the net, here's a receipt for an
>Amazon gift order from years ago, whom I'm sure many people buy from:
><https://i.postimg.cc/j2DbMQVY/purchase04.jpg>
>
>Here's a receipt for clothing accessories bought from Nordstrom's:
><https://i.postimg.cc/pd2VvjN3/purchase06.jpg>
>
>There's even a receipt containing all my details when I filled out a
>tire-warranty registration card online with tire serial numbers:
><https://i.postimg.cc/mDmsBp3H/purchase05.jpg>
>
>Unfortunately, I don't know yet how _turning off_ scanning is possible.
>o Do you?

Look up the Sinclair "magog" quote under "lie with the devil"

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 5/18/19 11:28 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> Unfortunately, I don't know yet how_turning off_ scanning is possible.
> o Do you?

Piss the fuck off.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 13:04:48 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> REAL SIMPLE solution. Do NOT use G-Mail or ANY other FREE e-mail
> service.

Hi Clare,

You and I go way back, where you help us solve problems that most people
can't even fathom the solution to, since the solution requires brains that
you have, but which most others who post don't have.

Let's _solve_ this problem the best way we can
o By understanding the problem set - and then the solution that works.

For example, we've already solved, rather easily it turns out, all Google
spying on the Android newsgroup, where we can eliminate google without even
having to resort to being root.

We solved that problem simply by working together and not giving up when
the electronic solution became difficult.

WE can do that for this problem too, IMHO.
o Starting with defining the problem set.

We _need_ email, right?
o So we have to have an email account, right?

And, if we want stuff such as that BMW factory software so that we can
diagnose, fix, and re-program the score of ECUs in a typical bimmer, we
have to get that software online, right (because BMW doesn't sell it).

Also, if we buy tires online to get the best tire at the best price, we end
up getting the registration receipt online also. Likewise, if we get free
electronics like my femtocell & repeaters from my carrier, _they_ send
those confirmation emails online - whether I like it or not.

*Who _knew_ that these things are _all_ saved _separately_ by Google?*
<https://myaccount.google.com/purchases>

That is, they're NOT saved in the "normal" place to control such things:
<https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>

Hence, there are multiple facets of this thread, intended to solve the
stated problem set, as always, with the combined help of the tribe:

The main questions asked in the discovery phase are:
1. What do you find in your account that Google considers a receipt?
2. Is there any other way to "pause" this other than to delete the email?

Once we answer those questions, more detailed questions can be solved:
3. What's the best alternative to Gmail known today?
4. Is there an automated way to locally intercept & reattach receipts

If you (or anyone else) knows of the BEST alternative email to Gmail, let's
discuss that - because it's a potential viable solution to the problem set.

If there's a clever electronic way to intercept our own emails locally,
recognizing what Google considers a "receipt" (bearing in mind Google's
interpretation clearly includes free stuff & registration cards)?

For example, maybe we can solve the problem by:
o Figuring out what Google triggers as a "receipt"
o Set our _own_ triggers (e.g., with procmail) to recognize the receipt
o Collect, and locally re-scan that receipt & send as an attachment
etc.

There is a problem - and there is a solution.
o If we say "don't use Gmail" then we need an alternative mail service.

What's the most viable alternative email service that people know of?

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
>seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
>Google email?
>

Larry Ellison summed it up best. "If you are not paying for a product,
you are the product".

[Scott Dorsey]

Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Unfortunately, I don't know yet how _turning off_ scanning is possible.
>o Do you?

If you aren't paying for a service, you aren't the customer. If you aren't
the customer, you are likely the product.

Giving google this information is how you pay for your mail service. If you
do not like giving this information up, purchase your mail service elsewhere
or don't send that information by email. Google sells that information, which
is how they can afford to provide email to you for free.

There are plenty of places that will sell you IMAPS service that is reasonably
private and reasonably well-maintained. I am not suggesting you abandon google
altogether, but I am certainly suggesting that if you care about keeping your
email information private that you should not be using gmail.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[gfre...@aol.com]

I bought a web service that includes a bunch of Email addresses and I
use that for anything I don't want to make public information. It is
really pretty cheap, like less than $100 a year. I also have lots of
web space for posting things instead of using 3d party sites like drop
box that might change the rules at a moment's notice. or make anyone
who wants to look have to give up their personal information.

[rbowman]

On 05/18/2019 11:30 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> There is a problem - and there is a solution.
> o If we say "don't use Gmail" then we need an alternative mail service.
>
> What's the most viable alternative email service that people know of?

Proton.

[Clare Snyder]

+1 +1 +1 +1

Even your internet supplier provides one or more email addresses with
your account. Many use Yahoo servers. Yahoo is not the best, but it
sure beets anything G-. Megamailservers is another one commonlly used
by ISP's. They are not free - but you ARE paying for the service along
with your internet connection, so why not use it????

Arlen just can't seem to figure out these SIMPLE things. He has to
make EVERYTHING complicated. Must be related to Micky.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 17:30:34 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2019 13:04:48 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>> REAL SIMPLE solution. Do NOT use G-Mail or ANY other FREE e-mail
>> service.
>
>Hi Clare,
>
>You and I go way back, where you help us solve problems that most people
>can't even fathom the solution to, since the solution requires brains that
>you have, but which most others who post don't have.
>
>Let's _solve_ this problem the best way we can
>o By understanding the problem set - and then the solution that works.
>
>For example, we've already solved, rather easily it turns out, all Google
>spying on the Android newsgroup, where we can eliminate google without even
>having to resort to being root.
>
>We solved that problem simply by working together and not giving up when
>the electronic solution became difficult.
>
>WE can do that for this problem too, IMHO.
>o Starting with defining the problem set.
>
>We _need_ email, right?
>o So we have to have an email account, right?

Doesn't meen youhave to "sell your soul" to Google to get e-mail.
Same reason I will NEVER use Chrome as a browser. Not a big fan of
Android either for the same reason. When you use ANY Google service or
product, you are putting everything you do on view to Google - who
will sell you to the highest (or any) bidder.

>
>And, if we want stuff such as that BMW factory software so that we can
>diagnose, fix, and re-program the score of ECUs in a typical bimmer, we
>have to get that software online, right (because BMW doesn't sell it).
>
>Also, if we buy tires online to get the best tire at the best price, we end
>up getting the registration receipt online also. Likewise, if we get free
>electronics like my femtocell & repeaters from my carrier, _they_ send
>those confirmation emails online - whether I like it or not.


>
>*Who _knew_ that these things are _all_ saved _separately_ by Google?*
><https://myaccount.google.com/purchases>

ANyone whoknows anything about Google knew that 5 years or more ago.

>
>That is, they're NOT saved in the "normal" place to control such things:
><https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>
>
>Hence, there are multiple facets of this thread, intended to solve the
>stated problem set, as always, with the combined help of the tribe:
>
>The main questions asked in the discovery phase are:
>1. What do you find in your account that Google considers a receipt?

Nothing -= as I don't USE Google

>2. Is there any other way to "pause" this other than to delete the email?

Don't "start" it inthe first place. Don't let Google see what you are
doing and they can't save it.

>
>Once we answer those questions, more detailed questions can be solved:
>3. What's the best alternative to Gmail known today?

Best? Your own private email server - locked down like Fort Knox.
Acceptable? What does your ISP use? Yahoo and MegaMailServers are two
relatively reputable services contracted by many ISPs. Others have
their own in-house mail servers - like TechSavvy . Axigen is
another.. If you want to "dance with a different devil" - one that is
somewhat more benign than google, youcan use outlook.com (formerly
Windows Live Mail and Hotmail) or Mail.com, or even ProtonMail or
Tutanota (which are fully encrypted, apparently) or Yandex? or ZOHO?
or GMX, or even AOL Mail? There are other (paid) services like
AuthSMTP, and FastMail. AppRiver is another excellent paid service
with many security options. With many ov these you will need to
register a domain which is a separate expense (about $10 a year, +/-)

>4. Is there an automated way to locally intercept & reattach receipts

Not if they come to you through Google. Do you understand how e-mail
works? Things like SMTP. MAPI, IMAP, POP, and all that complex stuff?
Do you know the difference between a mailserver and an e-mail client?
You can use Mail2Web.com as your webmail if your ISP does not provide
an interface like Horde or Roundcube or SquirrelMail (most do)

>
>If you (or anyone else) knows of the BEST alternative email to Gmail, let's
>discuss that - because it's a potential viable solution to the problem set.

>
>If there's a clever electronic way to intercept our own emails locally,
>recognizing what Google considers a "receipt" (bearing in mind Google's
>interpretation clearly includes free stuff & registration cards)?

Not likely - definitely not something simple

>
>For example, maybe we can solve the problem by:
>o Figuring out what Google triggers as a "receipt"
>o Set our _own_ triggers (e.g., with procmail) to recognize the receipt
>o Collect, and locally re-scan that receipt & send as an attachment
>etc.

Not liikely

>There is a problem - and there is a solution.
>o If we say "don't use Gmail" then we need an alternative mail service.

I've given you several.

[Rod Speed]

<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:veh0eeti3587l3fin...@4ax.com...

Still bullshit. I don't pay for the air I breathe and I'm not the product.

[gfre...@aol.com]

But you are paying for the cannabis smoke in the air you seem to be
breathing

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:bam0eedqhk7evbgum...@4ax.com...

Bullshit it does with completely automatic spam filtering alone.

Megamailservers is another one commonlly used
> by ISP's. They are not free - but you ARE paying for the service along
> with your internet connection, so why not use it????

Because it makes it a lot harder to change ISPs.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 07:02:55 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bullshit it does with completely automatic spam filtering alone.

It is amazing how rare spam is on your own Email pop account.
This AOL account is my public address and it is a spam magnet. When I
am doing private stuff I use one of my private email addresses and
they never generate spam.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 06:38:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>>>Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
>>>seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
>>>Google email?
>>>
>> Larry Ellison summed it up best. "If you are not paying for a product,
>> you are the product".
>
> Still bullshit. I don't pay for the air I breathe and I'm not the product.

The air you breathe is not a product, senile asshole! <tsk>

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little shit."
MID: <pjqpo3$1la0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 07:02:55 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


>> by ISP's. They are not free - but you ARE paying for the service along
>> with your internet connection, so why not use it????
>
> Because it makes it a lot harder to change ISPs.

No, it doesn't, senile arsehole!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.d...@sqwertz.com>

[Clare Snyder]

He's a total waste of free air - - -

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 07:02:55 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>

So register a domain and use your...@youdomain.com - - directed
through your ISP by your registrar.

[Clare Snyder]

The higher the exposure of your "domain" the more spam you get. So
AOL will get more spam than fretwell.biz

Also the more exposure to your email address the more spam - so
exposing gfre...@aol.com on the newsgroup pretty much guarantees you
will get spam, while no...@fretwell.biz, not being "out in the wild"
will get very little.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 15:58:18 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> Doesn't meen youhave to "sell your soul" to Google to get e-mail.

Hi Clare,

Agreed on the fact there's no need to "sell your soul" to Google.

I saw the purposefully helpful suggestion from rbowman of Proton, which
I've tested in the past, but I don't remember why I didn't keep it so I'll
try anew as if there was a better solution, I'd seek it out - although -
sometimes the "fancy" tools are no better in the end than the
tried-and-true basic boring tools.

LATER EDIT: I also saw your purposefully helpful suggestions of alternative
Email services other than Gmail below! (Thanks - I'll test them out.)

> Same reason I will NEVER use Chrome as a browser.

No disagreement here on Chrome.

Chrome is banned from my systems, where there are _plenty_ of privacy based
Chromium-based browsers, e.g., Epic or Opera on Windows, both of which
claim to be a free VPN but which are both really encrypted web-based
proxies. (And there's Brave, which is a tor-by-tab enabled browser.)

And non-Chromium-based privacy browsers too (e.g., TBB).

> Not a big fan of
> Android either for the same reason.

Be careful here, as most people, IMHO, who use iOS, are highly influenced
by bullshit marketing, as the sad fact is and always was that iOS has very
little of the privacy that Android has, where most people only know the
cherry-picked examples that some marketing organization feeds them; but not
the full factual details about privacy.

For example, it's _easy_ to remove almost all Google privacy intrusions on
Android while it's impossible to have the same kind of privacy on iOS.

We have a loooooooong very detailed discussion of this easily proven fact
on the smartphone ngs, so I won't belabor the issue here other than to say
anyone who feels iOS is somehow (magically?) more private than Android,
doesn't know either system to _any_ level of comprehension.

All they know is marketing bullshit.

See factual details here:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

> When you use ANY Google service or
> product, you are putting everything you do on view to Google - who
> will sell you to the highest (or any) bidder.

This is true, IMHO, that Google sees everything you let them see.

Just like I stated the fact is that you can easily almost completely
eliminate Google from Android without _any_ loss of functionality, we
_should_ be able to eliminate this specific offshoot separate privacy hive
of our stored receipts.
o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you
can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E>

What we need is a similar solution of eliminating this receipt hive.

Obviously, it's Google's fault for not putting this receipt hive along with
the other privacy hives which are able to be "paused".
<https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>

Clearly, one short-term workaround, staying within the Gmail ecosystem, is
to print the emailed receipt to a format which Google doesn't scan (e.g.,
PDF or JPEG), and then reattach that receipt to an email (if you wish to
store it in your Google account).

The main problem with the short-term solutions, such as printing to PDF and
saving the PDF'd receipt in a folder on your system, is that _new_ receipts
will _still_ get archived - since I couldn't find a way to "pause" this
receipt hive.

One potential permanent solution might be a local filter, such as a
procmail server for example, which automatically re-creates a local email
that is in an image format, and hence less likely to be scanned by Google.

Or, as rbowman suggested, a better freeware email solution, perhaps
o <>https://protonmail.com/>
Which claims:
o Open source
o Works with any MUA
o Swiss privacy laws
o End-to-end encryption
o No personal information or even IP addresses logged

I will set this up and test and write back the results on the related
platform ngs, so that everyone benefits from the efforts of others bringing
value to the Usenet potluck picnic.

> ANyone whoknows anything about Google knew that 5 years or more ago.

Did you _really_ know that Google keeps the receipts _separately?_
o And, did you know it's not part of the _normal_ privacy stuff?

Really?
o I find that hard to believe - but it _could_ be true.
(I'm not going to belabor whether you knew or not.)

Nonetheless, even if you did know about it, there's no mention from you in
the past that you noted of how to solve the problem - so - it doesn't help
to know about it - but I do see that you kindly provided potential
solutions below - which is great added value to the Usenet picnic to share.

> Nothing -= as I don't USE Google

NOTE: Proton Mail, suggested by rbowman, seems like a decent choice, where
I see you provided alternatives, which I will test out.

> Best? Your own private email server - locked down like Fort Knox.

I think you _still_ need IP address protection if you're setting up
sendmail at home, don't you?

I guess you could automate every sendmail batch request to include a
connection to VPN - which should work. And, there's DDNS if you don't have
a static IP address, for example.

If folks have working scripts, that's what we should be discussing then, as
it's not rocket science to set up a sendmail server - but - the IP address
protection is the problem.

> Acceptable? What does your ISP use? Yahoo and MegaMailServers are two
> relatively reputable services contracted by many ISPs.

Hehhehheh... my ISP?
o My situation is not like most since I get my Internet via an antenna.

Most people though don't live on a mountaintop, so they probably have a
cable (and pipes) which feed their homes, so for _them_, that's a
potentially viable solution.

> Others have
> their own in-house mail servers - like TechSavvy . Axigen is
> another.. If you want to "dance with a different devil" - one that is
> somewhat more benign than google, youcan use outlook.com (formerly
> Windows Live Mail and Hotmail) or Mail.com, or even ProtonMail or
> Tutanota (which are fully encrypted, apparently) or Yandex? or ZOHO?
> or GMX, or even AOL Mail?

Ah! Now that's value to be brought to the potluck picnic to share!

These are all nice starting suggestions for _replacement_ email service:
o <https://protonmail.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://www.axigen.com/> mail & calendar, (business solution)
o <https://teksavvy.com/services/> seems to be an ISP???
o <https://tutanota.com/> OSS, encryption, all platforms, free, ad free
o <https://mail.yandex.com/> 10GB storage, free?, no personal information
o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/> free, requires personal information
o <https://www.gmx.com/mail/> free, requires personal information,

Always keeping to the spirit of a general purpose solution, these appear
upon the first pass to be free and they appear, on just the first skim of
the main web page, to not log your IP address or ask (or require) personal
information during the sign-up process:
o <https://protonmail.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://tutanota.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://mail.yandex.com/> free?, no private info, IP logs?

> There are other (paid) services like
> AuthSMTP, and FastMail. AppRiver is another excellent paid service
> with many security options. With many ov these you will need to
> register a domain which is a separate expense (about $10 a year, +/-)

Thanks for the payware solutions, where some above seemed to be payware
also (at least upon initial inspection), but where payware instantly
relegates the solution to a non-general solution - where the cost of
freeware is in the immense testing involved - while the prelimary to
payware is the freeware.

Once we know what the freeware is capable of, then and only then do we have
the information necessary to evaluate our payware needs.

That's the classic two-step process to using payware, where, almost always,
the freeware does not only what the payware does, but often _more_ than the
payware does - but each functionality situation is different.

>>4. Is there an automated way to locally intercept & reattach receipts
> Not if they come to you through Google. Do you understand how e-mail
> works? Things like SMTP. MAPI, IMAP, POP, and all that complex stuff?

Hi Clare,
I cut my teeth on computers during the days of the punched card and IBM
JCL, where the IBM 1130 and PDP 11 was something I used in college, and
then I worked on a variety of DEC and Masscomp boxes until Sun took over
(and died), so, um, yeah, I know that stuff (I wrote hundreds of procmail
filters, for example, in the days when we actually _complained_ to the
server admin if we received a spam, and we used our actual email addresses
in tin or rn).

> Do you know the difference between a mailserver and an e-mail client?

Um... yes. MUA is the old term, as I'm sure you're aware of (also MTA).
[Then there's LDA and MDA, but let's not go into all these TLAs.]
o Plain old "mailx" was what I used on Linux for my "client"
o Then Windows & the Mac had Eudora for the longest time as the "client"
Well before Google existed.

In the olden days, with our ISPs, we had to get these settings:
o We started with pop3 server settings & smtp server credentials
o Then we moved to imap4 (which didn't download the mail locally)
o And, until AT&T joined up with Cuomo, we had the ISP's nntp server:port

> You can use Mail2Web.com as your webmail if your ISP does not provide
> an interface like Horde or Roundcube or SquirrelMail (most do)

My ISP is a WISP with about 50 customers locally.
o We do our own antenna installs and self-help for the neighbors

Mostly we use powerful WiFi radios, of which I have a half dozen scattered
about - here's a shot I took just now of just one corner of the basement of
my house, for example
<https://i.postimg.cc/brGyw8cM/purchase10.jpg>
[In that photo is also the cellular repeater, a wired repeater, and a few
powerful 2.4GHz & 5GHz transceivers, not all of which are in current use).

While that's just a half dozen radios, I have at least a dozen of them
scattered about as access points and to connect with the WISP & to
neighbors a few miles away, as we pass our Internet back and forth over
Fresnel zones and up the steep mountainside to paint the deep canyons
below.

All we get from the ISP is the Internet - where that's all we need.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mail2web" though, as there seem to be a few
outfits using that name, e.g.,
o <http://mail2web.com/>
o <http://www.zuter.com/mail2web.htm>

And, for Horde, vs Roundcute vs SquirrelMail, we can refer to this review:
o <https://www.thewebmaster.com/cpanel-articles/horde-roundcube-or-squirrelmail/>
o <https://www.exabytes.sg/blog/which-webmail-should-you-choose/>
o <https://blog.arvixe.com/horde-squirrelmail-and-roundcube/>
o <https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/CKB/Which+Webmail+Application+Should+I+Choose>
Where:
o Horde webmail - full suite of feaures
o Roundcube webmail - most populare - but with limited features
o Squirrelmail webmail - limited functionality but easy to use (died 4/2018)
And where all apparently require a "cpanel account".
o <https://cpanel.net/>

But a web browser is, by most accounts, an horrific way to obtain email,
where a dedicated MUA is the way to go, IMHO - but that's a different
question altogether.

In summary, you've brought value to share at the Potluck Picnic that is
Usenet, where the first task following up on your purposefully helpful post
is to explore the viable freeware mail services which can _replace_ google
email functionality as a global and general solution for everyone on all
platforms.

Thanks for bringing something of value to the Usenet potluck picnic.
There's plenty of general use for users to followup with more details based
on their adding of their valuable experience to the Usenet potluck!

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 17:20:13 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

Like I said the AOL account is a spam magnet. I am fairly happy about
how well the AOL spam filter works tho. It is not as bad as you would
expect after 20 years on usenet and all of the marketing sites I go
to.

[Rod Speed]

<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:01s0eep77qa5qk973...@4ax.com...

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

[Rod Speed]

<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:lts0ee945f1g9n2aa...@4ax.com...

But they will when you use them in your usenet posts.

I use by gmail email address and get very little spam at all, without
doing anything to filter the spam, its completely automatic with gmail.

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:2ft0eed4vv45ektud...@4ax.com...

Lot more farting around than using gmail and it will never be
possible to do spam filtering anything like as well as gmail
does it, because gmail gets to see the same spam get sent
to multiple recipients. Your own domain can never do that
and nothing can do it anything like as automatically.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:14:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>

> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

YOU certainly KEEP bullshitting your way, FAST, into your grave, senile
cretin! And I will stay around to keep witnessing it, my newest punching
bag! <BG>

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <XnsA97071CF43...@85.214.115.223>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:16:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

> I use by gmail email address and get very little spam at all, without
> doing anything to filter the spam, its completely automatic with gmail.

Shove your gmail account up yours, senile Rodent!

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:29:31 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


>

> Lot more farting around than

Are you now quarrelling about email addresses, you clinically insane,
85-year-old, trolling, senile pest?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 15:18:06 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> Arlen just can't seem to figure out these SIMPLE things. He has to
> make EVERYTHING complicated. Must be related to Micky.

Hi Clare,

Simple versus less simple...
o If the problem is so simple, then anyone can answer these 2 questions:

1. Did _you_ know about this receipt stash (if so, _how_ did you know)?
2. Where on the net did Google _explain_ this specific mechanism?

HINT: If nobody answers both those questions with a URL that predates this
new information hitting the news, then EVERYONE is bullshitting who says
that this is something they knew about.

This issue isn't about privacy - it's about HONESTY.
O Did Google provide this information of how to delete the receipts?
o Did Google explain free stuff & government registrations are archived?
o Why didn't Google put this with the "regular" privacy stuff
etc.

Two questions, Clare - that if you don't know the answer, then it's more
complicated than you seem to think it is:
1. Did _you_ know about this receipt stash (if so, _how_ did you know)?
2. Where on the net did Google _explain_ this specific mechanism?

[Roger Blake]

On 2019-05-18, Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
> What's the most viable alternative email service that people know of?

For any online ordering and personal communications I use my own
mail server.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[gfre...@aol.com]

You just get the spam the spammer pays google to let through. It may
actually show up in other Apps you run because google tracks activity
on your machine but so does Amazon.
If I look at something on Amazon or search for it on Google, my dog
sees ads for it on his face book page. The only connection is that he
uses my machine.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 23:31:14 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
<rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote:

>On 2019-05-18, Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> What's the most viable alternative email service that people know of?
>
>For any online ordering and personal communications I use my own
>mail server.

If you are using Amazon, Ebay or that type of place, they are selling
your data too along with tracking you, either by IP or with tracking
cookies.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/18/2019 7:31 PM, Roger Blake wrote:

> For any online ordering and personal communications I use my own
> mail server.
>

I use Hillary's. More secure, no one can see what is on it.

[gfre...@aol.com]

That is because it is write only storage. They scrub it every day and
there are no backup copies. It is the virtual bookie's flash paper.

[billj]

<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ji51ee1b22c985kou...@4ax.com...

No one pays google for the few odd items that do get thru. They
come from tiny items and likely send out so few spam emails to
anyone that gmail doesn't notice they are spam because it sees
so few of them with only the recipient name changed etc.

> It may actually show up in other Apps you run because
> google tracks activity on your machine but so does Amazon.

Never get any that way.

> If I look at something on Amazon or search for it on
> Google, my dog sees ads for it on his face book page.

I also get that on my facebook page but that's not spam
emails. I don't bother to run any blockers and never get
any of those that have anything to do with what has been
in the gmail emails.

[Rod Speed]

<gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6u51eel31i7ktqgbq...@4ax.com...

That doesn't work here, my RSP uses CGNAT.

> or with tracking cookies.

I don't get any of that on my facebook page after looking at
stuff on ebay, amazon or aliexpress. I only get that with stuff
that I search for with google, often after seeing it mentioned
in a usenet post or when I have looked it up using google
to make a comment about it in usenet.

[Clare Snyder]

No fan of the "fruit" system either - - - - -

>For example, it's _easy_ to remove almost all Google privacy intrusions on
>Android while it's impossible to have the same kind of privacy on iOS.
>
>We have a loooooooong very detailed discussion of this easily proven fact
>on the smartphone ngs, so I won't belabor the issue here other than to say
>anyone who feels iOS is somehow (magically?) more private than Android,
>doesn't know either system to _any_ level of comprehension.
>
>All they know is marketing bullshit.
>
>See factual details here:
>o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
>between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
>
>> When you use ANY Google service or
>> product, you are putting everything you do on view to Google - who
>> will sell you to the highest (or any) bidder.
>
>This is true, IMHO, that Google sees everything you let them see.
>
>Just like I stated the fact is that you can easily almost completely
>eliminate Google from Android without _any_ loss of functionality,

BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users. You
can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
Cadillac

> we
>_should_ be able to eliminate this specific offshoot separate privacy hive
>of our stored receipts.
>o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you
>can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E>
>
>What we need is a similar solution of eliminating this receipt hive.
>
>Obviously, it's Google's fault for not putting this receipt hive along with
>the other privacy hives which are able to be "paused".
><https://myaccount.google.com/data-and-personalization>
>
>Clearly, one short-term workaround, staying within the Gmail ecosystem, is
>to print the emailed receipt to a format which Google doesn't scan (e.g.,
>PDF or JPEG), and then reattach that receipt to an email (if you wish to
>store it in your Google account).

You don't get it. It's not the google "mail agent" that causes the
trouible it's the server. If it was just the agent you could solve it
by fetchingthe mail with outlook instead of the g-mail web client.

>
>The main problem with the short-term solutions, such as printing to PDF and
>saving the PDF'd receipt in a folder on your system, is that _new_ receipts
>will _still_ get archived - since I couldn't find a way to "pause" this
>receipt hive.
>
>One potential permanent solution might be a local filter, such as a
>procmail server for example, which automatically re-creates a local email
>that is in an image format, and hence less likely to be scanned by Google.

Except you are getting your mail FROM and THROUGH google - it's IN
google before you can access it unless you have a sniffer on every
email sender.

>
>Or, as rbowman suggested, a better freeware email solution, perhaps
>o <>https://protonmail.com/>
>Which claims:
>o Open source
>o Works with any MUA
>o Swiss privacy laws
>o End-to-end encryption
>o No personal information or even IP addresses logged

ProtonMail IS one option I suggested - which totally eliminates
Gppgle from thegame - and changes your email address.

>
>I will set this up and test and write back the results on the related
>platform ngs, so that everyone benefits from the efforts of others bringing
>value to the Usenet potluck picnic.
>
>> ANyone whoknows anything about Google knew that 5 years or more ago.
>
>Did you _really_ know that Google keeps the receipts _separately?_
>o And, did you know it's not part of the _normal_ privacy stuff?

I knew they monitor and harvest EVERY BIT of "data" they think they
can make a peso from - and they do it in such a way it is transparent
to you the user, and virtually impossible to totally eliminate

>
>Really?
>o I find that hard to believe - but it _could_ be true.
>(I'm not going to belabor whether you knew or not.)

I've been 30 years in the computer business - 25 years involved with
internet hosting and related business.

>
>Nonetheless, even if you did know about it, there's no mention from you in
>the past that you noted of how to solve the problem - so - it doesn't help
>to know about it - but I do see that you kindly provided potential
>solutions below - which is great added value to the Usenet picnic to share.

never been a problem for me, because I've been "too smart" to fall
for Google's "sucker punch"

>
>> Nothing -= as I don't USE Google
>
>NOTE: Proton Mail, suggested by rbowman, seems like a decent choice, where
>I see you provided alternatives, which I will test out.
>
>> Best? Your own private email server - locked down like Fort Knox.
>
>I think you _still_ need IP address protection if you're setting up
>sendmail at home, don't you?

Didn't say "at home" My web server is locked down in a vault in
Vancouver - along with my mail sever.

>
>I guess you could automate every sendmail batch request to include a
>connection to VPN - which should work. And, there's DDNS if you don't have
>a static IP address, for example.
>
>If folks have working scripts, that's what we should be discussing then, as
>it's not rocket science to set up a sendmail server - but - the IP address
>protection is the problem.

Just set up your own Microsofr Exchange server

>
>> Acceptable? What does your ISP use? Yahoo and MegaMailServers are two
>> relatively reputable services contracted by many ISPs.
>
>Hehhehheh... my ISP?
>o My situation is not like most since I get my Internet via an antenna.

Yes - through an ISP.

>
>Most people though don't live on a mountaintop, so they probably have a
>cable (and pipes) which feed their homes, so for _them_, that's a
>potentially viable solution.

WHo provides the signal to your antenna? Who do you send the cheque
to???? It's not being trapped free from the rther!!!!!!

>
>> Others have
>> their own in-house mail servers - like TechSavvy . Axigen is
>> another.. If you want to "dance with a different devil" - one that is
>> somewhat more benign than google, youcan use outlook.com (formerly
>> Windows Live Mail and Hotmail) or Mail.com, or even ProtonMail or
>> Tutanota (which are fully encrypted, apparently) or Yandex? or ZOHO?
>> or GMX, or even AOL Mail?
>
>Ah! Now that's value to be brought to the potluck picnic to share!
>
>These are all nice starting suggestions for _replacement_ email service:
>o <https://protonmail.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
>o <https://www.axigen.com/> mail & calendar, (business solution)
>o <https://teksavvy.com/services/> seems to be an ISP???
>o <https://tutanota.com/> OSS, encryption, all platforms, free, ad free
>o <https://mail.yandex.com/> 10GB storage, free?, no personal information
>o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/> free, requires personal information
>o <https://www.gmx.com/mail/> free, requires personal information,
>
>Always keeping to the spirit of a general purpose solution, these appear
>upon the first pass to be free and they appear, on just the first skim of
>the main web page, to not log your IP address or ask (or require) personal
>information during the sign-up process:

If they have any level of security they will log something.

You NEED that today too if you are going to have a functional,
secure. REAL emailservice.

>
>> You can use Mail2Web.com as your webmail if your ISP does not provide
>> an interface like Horde or Roundcube or SquirrelMail (most do)
>
>My ISP is a WISP with about 50 customers locally.
>o We do our own antenna installs and self-help for the neighbors
>
>Mostly we use powerful WiFi radios, of which I have a half dozen scattered
>about - here's a shot I took just now of just one corner of the basement of
>my house, for example
><https://i.postimg.cc/brGyw8cM/purchase10.jpg>
>[In that photo is also the cellular repeater, a wired repeater, and a few
>powerful 2.4GHz & 5GHz transceivers, not all of which are in current use).
>
>While that's just a half dozen radios, I have at least a dozen of them
>scattered about as access points and to connect with the WISP & to
>neighbors a few miles away, as we pass our Internet back and forth over
>Fresnel zones and up the steep mountainside to paint the deep canyons
>below.
>
>All we get from the ISP is the Internet - where that's all we need.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "mail2web" though, as there seem to be a few
>outfits using that name, e.g.,
>o <http://mail2web.com/>
>o <http://www.zuter.com/mail2web.htm>

No, there is only ONE "mail2web.com" - which is EXACTLY what I
recommended to you.

>
>And, for Horde, vs Roundcute vs SquirrelMail, we can refer to this review:
>o <https://www.thewebmaster.com/cpanel-articles/horde-roundcube-or-squirrelmail/>
>o <https://www.exabytes.sg/blog/which-webmail-should-you-choose/>
>o <https://blog.arvixe.com/horde-squirrelmail-and-roundcube/>
>o <https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/CKB/Which+Webmail+Application+Should+I+Choose>
>Where:
>o Horde webmail - full suite of feaures
>o Roundcube webmail - most populare - but with limited features
>o Squirrelmail webmail - limited functionality but easy to use (died 4/2018)
>And where all apparently require a "cpanel account".
>o <https://cpanel.net/>
>

No, you don't need a c-panel account. You can have a Plesk account
to. I'm sure there are other server front-ends that they work with
too.

>But a web browser is, by most accounts, an horrific way to obtain email,
>where a dedicated MUA is the way to go, IMHO - but that's a different
>question altogether.

I use Microsoft Office Outlook. I can still access my e-mail remotrly
from any machine using Horde.

>
>In summary, you've brought value to share at the Potluck Picnic that is
>Usenet, where the first task following up on your purposefully helpful post
>is to explore the viable freeware mail services which can _replace_ google
>email functionality as a global and general solution for everyone on all
>platforms.
>
>Thanks for bringing something of value to the Usenet potluck picnic.
>There's plenty of general use for users to followup with more details based
>on their adding of their valuable experience to the Usenet potluck!

I have several email accounts on my hosted domain, as well as on my
ISP account (Rogers.com - which uses a Yahoo mail server) - and I
access them all through Outlook.

[Clare Snyder]

Actually there are a lot of anti-spam systems that you can filter
your "private server" email with - including apps that run on your
"security appliance" like a "watchguard" -where YOU have control AND
it has all the spam data thar Google has.
On the insurance company exchange box we had spam filtering that was
every bit as good as G-Mail - and we could whitelist servers that
would have been blocked by g-mail if we needed to get all e-mails from
them - spam or not.
Even g-mail addresses occaisionally got blacklisted for spam

[rbowman]

On 05/18/2019 04:59 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> HINT: If nobody answers both those questions with a URL that predates this
> new information hitting the news, then EVERYONE is bullshitting who says
> that this is something they knew about.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629789/google-purchase-history-gmail-email-receipts

https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en

The second link is from January 22, 2019. You can click on 'Archived
Versions' that go back to 9 June 1999. You can usually find a link to
the privacy policy by rooting around in your account information.

Do they provide a handy link on the front page? Hell no. Does Aunt Mary
religiously read TechCrunch, BetaNews, TheRegister, TheHackerNews, and
other sites that report on doings in the IT world? Hell no. Does she
know Zuckerberg looks at her as a cash cow? Hell no.

[Roger Blake]

On 2019-05-18, gfre...@aol.com <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:
> If you are using Amazon, Ebay or that type of place, they are selling
> your data too along with tracking you, either by IP or with tracking
> cookies.

I use a foreign-based VPN service and a browser running in private mode
in a VM. Addons that control scripting, cookies, and what other sites
can be contacted are employed. (Multiple browsers, VPN endpoints, and
VMs are in use.) That and I order very little online, preferring to
do business locally in cash whenever possible.

So I'm sure "they" have some info, but it is quite limited. I see no
targeted ads, practically no ads at all for that matter.

[rbowman]

Amazon knows altogether too much about me but I'll admit it's handy.
When I was browsing for a new motorcycle cover yesterday a popup
informed me that it would fit my V-Strom.

And, no, the last time I tried to buy one locally I couldn't find one to
fit.

[Clare Snyder]

OK - I did NOT know about this SPECIFIC cache - but I DID know they
cache and harvest VIRTUALLY EVERTHING they think they might make a
pedo on - and they DO NOT publicize it - and they DO NOT make it easy
- if it is possible at all - to prevent theirclandistine data
collection.


After doing a bit of research (you DO know what that is, right??) - -
- -
This move started in 2013 - and it was partly a move by Google to
make it difficult for anyone else to "harvest" the information - if
they want the information they have to buy it from Google. There is
information about it on hubspot (Originally published Dec 13, 2013
10:07:00 AM, updated July 28 2017) at
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/google-gmail-images-email-marketers-nj

They explain it as a way to display images inline in their webmail
app.
more info at
https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know.
and
https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know

It appears from this information that using something like MICROSOFT
OFFICE OUTLOOK as your mail client MAY solve the problem, as it
APPEARS the caching is done by the browser app (webmail).

[Clare Snyder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:31:16 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>

More information at
https://sendgrid.com/blog/googles-new-image-caching-5-things-need-know/
https://blogs.constantcontact.com/gmail-cached-images/
https://blog.aweber.com/email-marketing/update-gmail-image-blocking-and-caching.htm
https://emailmonks.com/blog/industry-updates/image-caching-webmail-alarm-email-metrics/
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/gmail-blows-up-e-mail-marketing-by-caching-all-images-on-google-servers/
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/gmail-blows-up-e-mail-marketing-by-caching-all-images-on-google-servers/
https://wordtothewise.com/2013/12/faq-about-opens-and-gmail-caching/
According to information in
http://octeth.com/blog/gmails-new-image-proxy-feature-and-quick-work-around/
Using a different client doesn't stop the caching.

With the release of Gmail’s Image Proxy feature, Gmail downloads all
images inside the email you have sent whenever your email arrives to
Gmail servers. Gmail stores them on its own servers and when recipient
opens your email, images of your content are served through Gmail’s
servers, not from your servers.

[The Real Bev]

And now it's probably auto-delete after a few days so you don't have to
bother. SCORE!

--
Cheers, Bev
My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:79e1eelovqvffkaq7...@4ax.com...

Problem is that they never see the huge volume of email
that gmail sees and so can't do the obvious initial spam
check, see what emails are sent to huge numbers of
individuals with just the name of the recipient changed etc.

Sure, newsletters and catalogs etc that the recipient has
signed up for will also be identified by that approach,
but nothing an individual runs can ever do as well in
that regard and I have never found any of that stuff that
I have asked for being falsely identified as spam by gmail.
I have seen that happen with yahoo and it was from my
electricity supplier regarding a credit to my account.

- including apps that run on your
> "security appliance" like a "watchguard" -where YOU have control AND
> it has all the spam data thar Google has.

No it does not because they never see anything like the volume
of emails that gmail sees.

> On the insurance company exchange box we had
> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail

No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
that gmail sees.

- and we could whitelist servers that
> would have been blocked by g-mail if we needed to get all e-mails from
> them - spam or not.

Yes, but that's not completely automatically setup. gmail's
brilliant spam filter is.

> Even g-mail addresses occaisionally got blacklisted for spam

Because the worst of the spammers steal email addresses
and use those as the sender of spam.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:14:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>> or with tracking cookies.
>
> I don't get any of that on my facebook page after looking at
> stuff on ebay, amazon or aliexpress. I only get that with stuff
> that I search for with google, often after seeing it mentioned
> in a usenet post or when I have looked it up using google
> to make a comment about it in usenet.

Wanna bet that Google DOES know what a sick senile asshole you are, senile
Rodent? <BG>

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little shit."
MID: <pjqpo3$1la0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:10:40 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>> You just get the spam the spammer pays google to let through.
>
> No one pays google for the few odd items that do get thru. They
> come from tiny items and likely send out so few spam emails to
> anyone that gmail doesn't notice they are spam because it sees
> so few of them with only the recipient name changed etc.
>
>> It may actually show up in other Apps you run because
>> google tracks activity on your machine but so does Amazon.
>
> Never get any that way.
>
>> If I look at something on Amazon or search for it on
>> Google, my dog sees ads for it on his face book page.
>
> I also get that on my facebook page but that's not spam
> emails. I don't bother to run any blockers and never get
> any of those that have anything to do with what has been
> in the gmail emails.

If you believe that Google and Amazon do NOT know what a sick senile asshole
you are (including your real age, your mental health and physical health
issues, etc.), you are completely mistaken, senile Rodent, you ridiculous
clinically insane Google and Amazon admirer! <BG>

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 14:37:02 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>> Actually there are a lot of anti-spam systems that you can filter
>> your "private server" email with
>
> Problem is that they never see the huge volume of email
> that gmail

Shove your beloved gmail up your arse, senile idiot!

[Justin Trudeau]

On 5/18/19 10:01 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
> to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users. You
> can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
> Cadillac

Android is an open source operating system.  Anyone can download the source and modify it.

https://source.android.com/

[rbowman]

The Amazon Fire tablets do a good job of taking Google out of the
picture. In fact without rooting the device you can get to the Play Store.

otoh the B&N Nook isn't as much of a mod. One of the few purchases that
ever showed up on my Google account was when B&N offered a free download
of the Mueller report when it was released.

No, I did not read the damn thing. My boredom level peaked out after 40
pages.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:50:35 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> More information at
> https://sendgrid.com/blog/googles-new-image-caching-5-things-need-know/
> https://blogs.constantcontact.com/gmail-cached-images/
> https://blog.aweber.com/email-marketing/update-gmail-image-blocking-and-caching.htm
> https://emailmonks.com/blog/industry-updates/image-caching-webmail-alarm-email-metrics/
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/gmail-blows-up-e-mail-marketing-by-caching-all-images-on-google-servers/
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/gmail-blows-up-e-mail-marketing-by-caching-all-images-on-google-servers/
> https://wordtothewise.com/2013/12/faq-about-opens-and-gmail-caching/
> According to information in
> http://octeth.com/blog/gmails-new-image-proxy-feature-and-quick-work-around/
> Using a different client doesn't stop the caching.
>
> With the release of Gmail’s Image Proxy feature, Gmail downloads all
> images inside the email you have sent whenever your email arrives to
> Gmail servers. Gmail stores them on its own servers and when recipient
> opens your email, images of your content are served through Gmail’s
> servers, not from your servers.

Hi Clare,

I much appreciate this information about image-link caching, where it's not
at all related (directly anyway) to the problem that Google is scanning
your email for receipts and storing them in a secret page at the same time
that Google is "claiming" that this secret page which nobody knows about is
supposed to help us "keep track" of receipts.

That argument, I assume, is obvious to all as patently ridiculous.
o Either Google told us about this specific URL - or they didn't.

If Google _did_ tell us about this specific URL then ... um ... er
o Why can't anyone on this planet (yet) find where they gave us this URL?

Carlos claimed he knew, and you, to your credit, backed off on that claim
which I respect from you, as Usenet is a casual medium where we don't
necessarily put legal language in every post.

I accept that EVERYONE knows Google scans our mail, and I accept that MANY
people know that Google literally re-writes the email based on what Google
sees as the MUA (aka "mail client") - but this is a DIFFERENT issue than
the fact that Google provides a seemingly secret URL for us to "keep track"
of our receipts.

But this is a _different_ issue than the fact that Google has this
apparently secret URL supposedly so we can "track our purchases" which
nobody knows but Google employees.

Meanwhile, I ran a quick test of using this search "label" in Google
web-paged email on Firefox, and the results were DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT than
the URL page that we saw initially.
label:^smartlabel_receipt

Do others get completely different results when using these methods?
1. WEB BASED SEARCH QUERY label:^smartlabel_receipt
2. <https://myaccount.google.com/purchases>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:31:16 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> OK - I did NOT know about this SPECIFIC cache -

Hi Clare,
THANK YOU for being honest.
o To your credit, you can see both sides of the coin.

Very few people on Usenet would admit what you did
o Nor would they _dig deeper_ for facts - as you did.

That you did both those things, is a testament to two things
o Your inteligence
o Your credibility

You are like me - where you _care_ about your credibility.

I simply _knew_ you didn't know about this specific cache.
o Only because _nobody_ knew about this specific cache.

That's why it's making the news.

The "problem" is that the facts don't fit the narrative.
o Google "says" this is to "help you keep track" of your receipts
But...
o Google never _told_ you about this specific cache.

That is a fact which seems to be true - right?
o So the fact does NOT fit the narrative.

That always bugs me (sort of like how the Gulf of Tonkin incident facts
didn't fit the narrative).

> but I DID know they
> cache and harvest VIRTUALLY EVERTHING they think they might make a
> pedo on - and they DO NOT publicize it - and they DO NOT make it easy
> - if it is possible at all - to prevent theirclandistine data
> collection.

Clare,
EVERYONE knows that Google tracks almost everything you do in Gmail.
o <https://policies.google.com/privacy>

That's NOT what this thread is about
o That wouldn't be "news" for example.

> After doing a bit of research (you DO know what that is, right??)

Clare,
I respect you for your knowledge, and even more that you admitted you
didn't know about this URL, which, while it's patently obvious that NOBODY
knew, you, at least, had the courage to admit that you didn't know it (even
though I _knew_ you didn't know it 'cuz I'm a logical rational person).

NOTE: Since Usenet is a casual medium, when I say "NOBODY", it's patently
accepted that this means "Almost Nobody", as people at Google certainly
knew.

However ... if you knew what my PhD is in, and from what school, and then
if you knew how many papers I've written, you wouldn't make that silly
childish taunt that I don't know what "research" is.

I'm not going to point out my papers, nor send you a copy of my degrees,
but rest assured I know how to do research in the formal sense.

So please don't play that game with me Clare, as there's likely almost
nobody on this ng who has more education than I do (plenty will have as
much, but very few will have more) so let's not go there again please.

For example, I already reported on the following, which dilutes my
narrative mind you, but like any scientist or engineer, I am beholden to
the truth and not to any particular interpretation of that truth.

Google _did_ mention, way back in 2013, that you could put this search term
in your Gmail search box, which is kind of sort of similar to the new
secret URL that we found out from the recent news reports::
label:^smartlabel_receipt

It's not the same thing, of course, but it's a step in that direction:
<https://www.itworld.com/article/2711018/find-all-your-receipts-in-gmail-automatically.html>

> This move started in 2013 - and it was partly a move by Google to
> make it difficult for anyone else to "harvest" the information - if
> they want the information they have to buy it from Google.

Clare - that's a rational reasonable point, which I don't disagree with.
o Facts are easy for people who are rational to agree with.

> There is
> information about it on hubspot (Originally published Dec 13, 2013
> 10:07:00 AM, updated July 28 2017) at
> https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/google-gmail-images-email-marketers-nj

Thanks for that link, Clare, where, as you know, I read every reference
that people post in helpful responses to queries.
o How Google's Change to Gmail Images Affects Email Marketers
<https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/google-gmail-images-email-marketers-nj>
"When recipients choose to load an image, they share a lot of information
about themselves, including their location and the kind of device they're
using. Marketers also learn, of course, that someone has opened their
email."

Notice that the images now come from Google instead of the sender:

"But now, Google is going to cache all these images itself. So when a
recipient loads an image, it will come from Google, not from the marketer."

Notice that Google actually _changes_ the email content:

"when a Gmail recipient opens an email, Google will have re-written the
email content to source any images from them. "

> They explain it as a way to display images inline in their webmail
> app.
> more info at
> https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know.
> and
> https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know

Both those URLs were the same:

From your prior article reference, we can summarize as "old" and "new"
styles of image processing:
(NOTE: I could be wrong but this is my take on the old/new process.)

OLD:
o Marketeer mails you the email containing a _unique_ image link
o You ignore that email & marketeer knows the link wasn't clicked
o Marketeer doesn't know if you opened the email though

If you _click_ on the image link, the Marketeer learns more:
o Marketeer knows you clicked on the image link
o But also - Marketeer gets information about your software

NEW:
o Marketeer mails you the email containing a _unique_ image link
o You ignore that email & marketeer knows you ignored that email!
o If you open the email, marketeer also knows you opened it.

WHY:
o Google re-wrote the email to link to a Google server instead
o The Google server asks for the unique link from the marketeer
o So the marketeer _only_ knows that you opened the email

Notice your URL below says this only works for WEB access to Gmail, so we
can presume that, oh, say, Thunderbird, might work differently.
o DECEMBER 9, 2013 What You Need To Know About Image Caching In Gmail
<https://litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-you-need-to-know>

There is also some question in my mind as to how "unique" the image link is
crafted, where, for example, these could all point, in the end, to the same
image, even as the link is unique to each person:
o http://domain.com/linktoperson1/image.jpg
o http://domain.com/linktoperson2/image.jpg
And
o http://domain.com/images/image1.jpg
o http://domain.com/images/image2.jpg
Where the web software effectively uses an automated symbolic-link (in
effect) where both image1.jpg and image2.jpg are actually "image.jpg".

If my assessment above is wrong, someone smarter will let me know. :)

> It appears from this information that using something like MICROSOFT
> OFFICE OUTLOOK as your mail client MAY solve the problem, as it
> APPEARS the caching is done by the browser app (webmail).

Thanks for that information that each MUA may handle the image links
differently that Google re-writes, where your latter article inferred the
same thing by saying:
"Gmail has started caching images for users accessing Gmail via the
webmail interface: images are viewed only once on the original server while
successive views will originate from the cached image on Google¢s proxy
servers."

What's interesting about that comment is that the re-writing of your email
apparently occurs "on the fly" as you download the email from the IMAP
server to your device - which is the ONLY time that Google "can" know that
you're using a web-based interface.

Presumably, if you use, oh, say Outlook or Thunderbird as your MUA, then
the re-writing of the image link doesn't happen. ???

In summary Clare, I APPRECIATE your honesty, which bolsters your
credibility, since you, like me, speak facts and you look up those facts.

For my part, I _read_ your links, and summarized them, again, because I
care about my credibility so if I'm wrong, someone smarter than I am will
certainly let me know. :)

Still, I must point out that this image caching sub thread is interesting,
but I don't see it related to the fact that Google is secretly (apparently)
creating a web page of your free stuff, registration, and paid stuff (at
least), which Google _says_ is for you to use - but which is located at a
secret place that Google never told anyone about (as far as anyone yet can
tell).

That's why it's news.

The solution is what we're after here, which, may be:
o Switch to Proton Mail (or equivalent), or,
o Delete your receipts, or,
o Convert your receipts into non-scannable emails.

Any other viable solutions that intelligent people can propose?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 19:15:55 -0600, rbowman wrote:

> https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629789/google-purchase-history-gmail-email-receipts
>
> https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en
>
> The second link is from January 22, 2019. You can click on 'Archived
> Versions' that go back to 9 June 1999. You can usually find a link to
> the privacy policy by rooting around in your account information.
>
> Do they provide a handy link on the front page? Hell no. Does Aunt Mary
> religiously read TechCrunch, BetaNews, TheRegister, TheHackerNews, and
> other sites that report on doings in the IT world? Hell no. Does she
> know Zuckerberg looks at her as a cash cow? Hell no.

Hi rbowman,

Facts first; only then can rational logic ensue.

THANK YOU for this useful information!
o You are adding value to the potluck picnic to share with everyone.

I will read your cites, as my main point is twofold in this thread:
1. Initially: Inform users of this tool & find ways to ameliorate it
2. Currently: Agree with or Correct those who feel Google told us all along

The one thing about me is that all I care about are the actual facts.
o I will _modify_ my belief system (if necessary) based on the facts.

I'm allergic to bullshit from people who say they knew about this all along
o And yet, they almost certainly did not (yet they bullshit us anyway)

It's why I don't have an imaginary belief system.
o Hence I _appreciate_ the facts you brought up.

Hence I read your facts with hopeful scientific ardor.
o Specifically _what_ and _when_ Google "told us" about this.

Here's The Verge article you referenced:
o May 17, 2019: Google has been tracking nearly everything you buy online ĄX see for yourself with this tool
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629789/google-purchase-history-gmail-email-receipts>
"Google has been quietly keeping track of nearly every single online
purchase youĄŚve ever made, thanks to purchase receipts sent to your
personal Gmail account, according to a new report today from CNBC. Even
stranger: this information is made available to you via a private web tool
thatĄŚs been active for an indeterminate amount of time."
"Google did not say how long this tool has been active. "
"this tool, and the technology to collect and present the data it
provides, has existed quietly without a majority of Gmail users aware"
"google claims this difficult to find, hard to delete itemization of my
entire purchasing history is to "help me keep track of all my shopping
habits in one place, total BS. it's to help google keep track of all my
shopping habits in one place."

Bear in mind that, while the article mentioned this site tracks receipts,
even Apple receipts, it did not mention the fact that it tracked my "free"
stuff, such as a free electronic device shipped to me from my carrier, and
detailed mandatory government registration information for some things.

I'm too old to run this test to register for the draft, but if there are
any 18 year old born male people on this newsgroup, it would be interesting
to know if they also archived your mandatory selective service registration
receipt.

And anyone who points to the Google privacy policy is missing the point
since I'm not asking whether Google tracks us (they do); and I'm not asking
whether Google "said" they'd track us any way they could (they do)...

Facts first; then rational logic can ensue.

The twitter post in the The Verge article summed up the honest issue well:
a. If Google really wanted us to use this to "keep track" of our receipts
b. Why isn't this special web page listed _anywhere_ that anyone can find?

The logic doesn't fit the facts. (not yet anyway)

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:41:52 -0600, rbowman wrote:

> The Amazon Fire tablets do a good job of taking Google out of the
> picture. In fact without rooting the device you can get to the Play Store.

Hi rbowman,

Thanks for that additional subtopic information about privacy on Android.

You likely know this, but I posit that there's no reason you need the
Google Play store on _any_ Android phone or tablet.

For example:
o Is there any FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you

can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E/WeY-r7_OAAAJ>

I use the example of a kid not recognizing his dad when he's dressed as
"Dr. John Smith", while the kid only recognizes his dad when he's dressed
as "Daddy" in slippers and pajamas.

Underneath the GUI, it's the _same_ stuff exactly.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.dragons.aurora/>

It's the same with YouTube and NewPipe, where, underneath the GUI, it's the
exact same videos. <https://newpipe.schabi.org/>

But without Google knowing who you are.

In summary, I posit there is absolutely no reason for a Google Account on
Android - which - in and of itself - eliminates a LOT of the spying.

Then, with judicious settings, I posit you can eliminate the rest of the
spying (e.g., reporting your neighbor's wifi to Google).

Since I love to IMPROVE my privacy - I CHALLENGE anyone to prove me wrong.
o Tell me how I haven't eliminated Google spying on my unrooted phoen?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 06:01:36 -0400, Justin Trudeau wrote:

> Android is an open source operating system.  Anyone can download the source and modify it.
>
> https://source.android.com/

This is true, where the rule I follow is simple:
o Facts first, and then adult rational logic based on those facts.

We have a thread on how to do what you say in c.m.a, but, unfortunately, it
requires rooting to load that custom ROM (plus the right phone).

For example:
o Privacy from Google/analytics/tracking with Lineage OS + microG
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/E_ULJzPy2T8/x8LpkypRCwAJ>

The fact is, I claim to have (almost?) eliminated Google, sans rooting.
o Did I?

For example:
o In Nougat, which google apps can we safely DISABLE?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/8rHYBivfNtU/GWsiku14DAAJ>

I'm never afraid of facts though - so if you know of ANYHTING that I
missed, then just let me know what it is.

For example:
o What is the easiest way to spoof the GSF Google Services Framework ID -
and is it being tracked)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/TWiqCS-r2vY/xwFeCuB-CwAJ>

I think most people own completely imaginary belief systems on Andrloid privacy
o So they will simply say it can't be done

For example:

o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY/Bm40liKdEQAJ>

But I believe, not only can it be done - but it's EASY to do.
o You just have to know what steps to take

For example:
o What are the first things you do to set up a new Android Nougat phone?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/w0ze6GZoOOc/mGIDxrvsAAAJ>

And I believe I've taken ALL the known steps.
o Have I?

The only way to tell for sure, is to ask what you think I missed.
o What do you know of that I missed to divorce my phone from Google?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:01:24 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

>>Just like I stated the fact is that you can easily almost completely
>>eliminate Google from Android without _any_ loss of functionality,
> BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
> to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users. You
> can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
> Cadillac

Hi Clare,

You're clearly intelligent and you clearly care about your credibility
o As am I, and as do I

I believe I've "almost" eliminated Google spying on my non-rooted phone
o Do you have evidence that I have not eliminated that spying?

For example:
o What are the common settings to change on an Android 7.0 Nougat phone
for privacy?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/b9Ck9JSyKXY/It7Yavl5AgAJ>

On this one topic, you must agree an un-rooted android phone works just
fine without _any_ Google account, right?
o HINT: I don't have a google account on my un-rooted Android phone

For example:
o How does the default "Google Account" on an Android phone benefit you?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/L16oLRH-jVc/MlTr9PzdAwAJ>

Also, an Android phone works just fine after you turn off all the known
settings that are related to Google spying, right?
o HINT: I have all that stuff turned off that is known about

For example:
o What else do we need to do in order to turn OFF reporting to Google my
neighbor's wifi access points?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/GHyPnNU60gg/W5iLNI8mAgAJ>

In addition, it's easily possible to load only GSF-free apps, right?
o GSF independent free, ad free, email programs for Android on Google Play
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fQPHDg9VutI/8QhMreVoCwAJ>

In summary, we're both intelligent and we both care about our credibility,
where we both know that facts aren't only as simple as simple-minded people
like Trader can comprehend - but that facts come in many complexities.

Still - to my knowledge, I've _eliminated_ Google spying from my non-root
phone,.where those threads listed above are only examples of the _many_
steps I've taken to accomplish that worthy goal.

My question to you is simple - just as any question of fact is simple.
o What do you think I missed that makes you believe you can't do what I
"claim" to have done?

NOTE: I may or may not be correct in my claim - but my claim is based on
the facts that I have turned off EVERYTHING that I know about with regard
to Google spying - and I did it without rooting the phone.

I'm never afraid of facts because my belief system is bolstered by facts.
o Tell me what Google spys on me with my phone that I may have missed?

If you can't name anything I potentially missed, then what does that tell
us?

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 14:37:02 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
>> Actually there are a lot of anti-spam systems that you can filter
>> your "private server" email with
>
>Problem is that they never see the huge volume of email
>that gmail sees and so can't do the obvious initial spam
>check, see what emails are sent to huge numbers of
>individuals with just the name of the recipient changed etc.

Actually they see a hell of a lot more than G-Mail sees - as the
database is comprized of spam reports from many of the "big players"
inthe game. The database is updated daily (sometimes oftener)

>
>Sure, newsletters and catalogs etc that the recipient has
>signed up for will also be identified by that approach,
>but nothing an individual runs can ever do as well in
>that regard and I have never found any of that stuff that
>I have asked for being falsely identified as spam by gmail.
>I have seen that happen with yahoo and it was from my
>electricity supplier regarding a credit to my account.
>
>- including apps that run on your
>> "security appliance" like a "watchguard" -where YOU have control AND
>> it has all the spam data thar Google has.
>
>No it does not because they never see anything like the volume
>of emails that gmail sees.

Like I said - the big players in network security see a HELL of a lot
more than G-Mail sees - and these applications make it easy for you to
add white-list and blacklist filtering ON TOP OF the genereic filter.
So you can whitelist your power company, or anyone else you want to
get ALL mail from - regardless what the spam filter says - or you can
blacklist a complete domain, or any mail coming from a particular
country identifier.

>
>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>
>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>that gmail sees.

You really think so?????? 30 years in the business tells me you don't
know what you are talking about.

>
>- and we could whitelist servers that
>> would have been blocked by g-mail if we needed to get all e-mails from
>> them - spam or not.
>
>Yes, but that's not completely automatically setup. gmail's
>brilliant spam filter is.
>
>> Even g-mail addresses occaisionally got blacklisted for spam
>
>Because the worst of the spammers steal email addresses
>and use those as the sender of spam.

But some of them were LEGITIMATE addresses.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 06:01:36 -0400, Justin Trudeau

en sourse and free - yes - BUT it is still owned and controlled by
Google division of Alphabet Inc.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/16/17984074/google-eu-android-licensing-bundle-chrome-search
Note in particular "Google hasn’t historically charged for Android
and its apps because of the revenue brought in through Chrome and
search. But splitting them up changes the equation, so companies will
now find themselves paying for things — like the Play Store — that we
generally consider to be core parts of Android, but are in reality
Google services."

It may not remain free forever.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 18:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:



Googlke says:

"We don't use any information from your Gmail messages to serve you
ads, and that includes the email receipts and confirmations shown on
the Purchase page,"

And if you believe that I've got a bridge I'll sell you.

From
https://www.cnet.com/news/google-is-tracking-your-purchases-through-gmail/

"Google is keeping a list of your online purchases, thanks to
confirmation emails being sent to your Gmail account.

As discovered by CNBC, Gmail users can click to see a list of their
transactions, which goes back at least five years.

"Only you can see your purchases," Google says on the page. "Google
protects your privacy and security."

Though Google outlines how to delete the transactions in three steps,
it took a little more than that when we tried out the process.
screen-shot-2019-05-17-at-4-12-59-pm
Corinne Reichert/CNET

To delete something, you can click on a purchase, which will bring up
an itemized list of everything you bought in that transaction. You can
then click the "i" button for information, and then on "where's this
from?"

Google will tell you if the purchase was found in your Gmail, after
which you can either click "got it" or "view email." You'll then be
taken to your Gmail account, the email will load, and you can delete
it entirely.

Only then will the transaction disappear from your purchase history.

Google says it also tracks purchases via orders placed using Google
services such as Google Express and the Google Play Store, as well as
through the Google Assistant.

A Google spokesperson said the page is meant to help people view and
keep track of their purchases, bookings and subscriptions.

"We don't use any information from your Gmail messages to serve you
ads, and that includes the email receipts and confirmations shown on
the Purchase page," the spokesperson added in a statement Friday.

The search giant has been making a bigger push into online shopping,
this week revamping its Shopping hub to allow people to shop directly
from Google itself.

Later this year, Google will also enable people to purchase products
seen in YouTube videos like makeup tutorials.

Originally published May 17, 4:51 p.m. PT.
Update, 5:47 p.m.: Adds Google's response.
Share your voice
13 Comments
Tags
Mobile Tech Industry Internet Security Digital Media Online Gmail
E-commerce Google

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 20:34:19 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:01:24 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>>>Just like I stated the fact is that you can easily almost completely
>>>eliminate Google from Android without _any_ loss of functionality,
>> BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
>> to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users. You
>> can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
>> Cadillac
>
>Hi Clare,
>
>You're clearly intelligent and you clearly care about your credibility
>o As am I, and as do I
>
>I believe I've "almost" eliminated Google spying on my non-rooted phone
>o Do you have evidence that I have not eliminated that spying?

No idea. Never used an Android phone. I DO have an android tablet - I
downloaded the "torque" app on it and confirmed it connects to the
bluetooth OBD@ dongle, and that it connected to both my truck and my
old Taurus. Haven't had it out of the box since.

All I know is if I don't use a g-mail account, and I don't log into a
google account, they got nothing on me - and I'm just as happy not
ever having to use their product. Like many people have nouse for
Microsoft, Ihave no use for Google (otherthan their search engine)

[rbowman]

On 05/19/2019 02:34 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> We have a thread on how to do what you say in c.m.a, but, unfortunately, it
> requires rooting to load that custom ROM (plus the right phone).

Well, yeah...

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:qvf3eepngaqgp6hlt...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 19 May 2019 14:37:02 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>> Actually there are a lot of anti-spam systems that you can filter
>>> your "private server" email with
>>
>>Problem is that they never see the huge volume of email
>>that gmail sees and so can't do the obvious initial spam
>>check, see what emails are sent to huge numbers of
>>individuals with just the name of the recipient changed etc.
>
> Actually they see a hell of a lot more than G-Mail sees

Oh bullshit.

> - as the database is comprized of spam reports
> from many of the "big players" inthe game.

There isnt any bigger player in the game than gmail
with the volume of emails that are seen by the player.

> The database is updated daily (sometimes oftener)

And gmail sees the spam emails much sooner than that.

>>Sure, newsletters and catalogs etc that the recipient has
>>signed up for will also be identified by that approach,
>>but nothing an individual runs can ever do as well in
>>that regard and I have never found any of that stuff that
>>I have asked for being falsely identified as spam by gmail.
>>I have seen that happen with yahoo and it was from my
>>electricity supplier regarding a credit to my account.
>>
>>- including apps that run on your
>>> "security appliance" like a "watchguard" -where YOU have control AND
>>> it has all the spam data thar Google has.
>>
>>No it does not because they never see anything like the volume
>>of emails that gmail sees.
>
> Like I said - the big players in network security see a HELL of a lot
> more than G-Mail sees

Bullshit they do.

> - and these applications make it easy for you to add white-list
> and blacklist filtering ON TOP OF the genereic filter.

Don't have to bother farting around with those when you use gmail.

> So you can whitelist your power company, or anyone else you want to
> get ALL mail from - regardless what the spam filter says - or you can
> blacklist a complete domain, or any mail coming from a particular
> country identifier.

Don't have to bother farting around with those when you use gmail.

>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>>
>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>>that gmail sees.
>
> You really think so??????

I know so thanks.

> 30 years in the business

Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.

tells me you don't
> know what you are talking about.

Easy to claim.

[Clare Snyder]

Because you have to trust g-mail to use it. I and many others do not.

>>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>>>
>>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>>>that gmail sees.
>>
>> You really think so??????
>
>I know so thanks.
>
>> 30 years in the business
>
>Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.

The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail. Been in it
from the start.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 07:52:05 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

> Oh bullshit.

Nope, just so much more trollshit on your part, you 85-year-old senile
troll!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <62dcaae57b421e2b...@haph.org>

[rbowman]

On 05/19/2019 03:24 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> Like many people have nouse for
> Microsoft, Ihave no use for Google (otherthan their search engine)

i prefer DuckDuckGo... Even a Google search has

Denver, Colorado - From your Internet address - Use precise location -

Fortunately my precise location is a long way from Denver.

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:7dm3eeljh0cngmla4...@4ax.com...

Nope, its trivial to check how well their automatic spam filter is working.

> I and many others do not.

Irrelevant to how well their completely automatic spam
filter works.

>>>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>>>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>>>>
>>>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>>>>that gmail sees.
>>>
>>> You really think so??????
>>
>>I know so thanks.
>>
>>> 30 years in the business
>>
>>Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.
>
> The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail.

Wrong with email.

Been in it
> from the start.

Obviously not if you believe email was first seen 30 years ago.

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:35i3eeh3qm86cf73d...@4ax.com...

> I have no use for Google (other than their search engine)

Mad, google maps leaves the rest for dead.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 17:24:24 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> No idea.

Hi Clare,
Facts first; only then, can adults reasonably discuss ramifications.

I _knew_ that would be the answer (or, at least I figured it would be).
o Most people own completely imaginary belief systems, and that's OK.

It's just when they _proclaim_ that, oh, for example, Apple is better at
privacy than Google that things get dicey, because that means they known
ONLY what Apple Marketing has told them (which is cherry picked).

> Never used an Android phone. I DO have an android tablet - I
> downloaded the "torque" app on it and confirmed it connects to the
> bluetooth OBD@ dongle, and that it connected to both my truck and my
> old Taurus. Haven't had it out of the box since.

I have _both_ Android & iOS, and I _know_ the difference.
o With respect to privacy, there's a _huge_ difference

But privacy is like security, where the weak links prevail.
o Android & iOS have the same weak links with respect to privacy

Where they differ, isn't meaningful because in the end, they're the same
o In _many_ (many_ ways, Android is far more private than iOS
o In some ways, iOS is far more private than Android

In the end, I can tell you two things about _anyone_ who claims one is more
private than the other.
1. They're spouting completely imaginary bullshit, and,
2. They don't have a clue what they're talking about.

I "claim" I do - where _all_ my claims are tested & verified as fact:

o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

> All I know is if I don't use a g-mail account, and I don't log into a
> google account, they got nothing on me - and I'm just as happy not
> ever having to use their product. Like many people have nouse for
> Microsoft, Ihave no use for Google (otherthan their search engine)

I agree with you that elimating a Google account is a good step.
o Certainly it's trivial to eliminate on Android
o It doesn't need to exist on iOS

What's funny about those who proclaim iOS "better" is that they don't even
realize that on iOS you _can't_ eliminate the iCloud account - nor - more
sinisterly - can you eliminate your Apple ID from being associated with
_every_ app you download - bar none - where - on Android - you don't need
_any_ id to download apps, and you can easily pass apps back and forth to
_any_ phone - so in that sense, iOS is like big brother keep track of you.

To further eliminate Google, I _loved_ your suggestions (and that which
echo them from rbowman) to eliminate the Google "Gmail" account, which I
think I will do, using likely one of these three you suggested:
o <https://protonmail.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://tutanota.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://mail.yandex.com/> free?, no private info, IP logs?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.home.repair/V3kuohx1vf8/9zXep10TAQAJ>

On the non-home-repair ngs, I'll author a thread to hone in on the best
non-Google replacement for the free Gmail, based on your starting input.
o Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail"
account - so all benefit from our efforts
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YUdwh4QgoRQ>

[Ed Pawlowski]

They don't have my street though. It has existed for over a year.

[Clare Snyder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 12:14:43 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Because you have to trust g-mail to use it.
>
>Nope, its trivial to check how well their automatic spam filter is working.
>
>> I and many others do not.
>
>Irrelevant to how well their completely automatic spam
>filter works.
>
>>>>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>>>>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>>>>>
>>>>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>>>>>that gmail sees.
>>>>
>>>> You really think so??????
>>>
>>>I know so thanks.
>>>
>>>> 30 years in the business
>>>
>>>Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.
>>
>> The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail.
>
>Wrong with email.

OK - it was available to limited users in ARPANET. The worldwide web
came to be in the early nineties - based on TCP/IP adapted to arpanet
in 1983.
With the worldwide web e-mail became publicly available. Commercial
e-mail as we know it started with microsoft mail on the early Apple
computer in 1988, and for DOS in 1991.
Compuserve was the first (1989) online service to provide internet
connectivity to the masses over dial-up connections and provided an
e-mail service between compuserve users. Lotus notes camne out in 1989
as well. - so lets agree on 1989 as the start of e-mail as we know it.

I got my start in the business in 1987

[rbowman]

And some have left google maps for dead... Like many things Google, the
terms were initially quite liberal until they figured out how to
monetize the product. That caused sites to switch to OSM or other
alternatives.

Talking to Google about using their API left me with the feeling they
were feeling out what the market would bear. There is no question
they've sunk a lot of money into the product and are looking for a
return. The general public doesn't see the other side.

As far as accuracy, no digitized maps, or paper maps for that matter,
are 100% accurate.

[Clare Snyder]

I forgot about google earth - I use it too.

[Clare Snyder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 02:24:19 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2019 17:24:24 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
>
>> No idea.
>
>Hi Clare,
>Facts first; only then, can adults reasonably discuss ramifications.
>
>I _knew_ that would be the answer (or, at least I figured it would be).
>o Most people own completely imaginary belief systems, and that's OK.
>
>It's just when they _proclaim_ that, oh, for example, Apple is better at
>privacy than Google that things get dicey, because that means they known
>ONLY what Apple Marketing has told them (which is cherry picked).
>
>> Never used an Android phone. I DO have an android tablet - I
>> downloaded the "torque" app on it and confirmed it connects to the
>> bluetooth OBD@ dongle, and that it connected to both my truck and my
>> old Taurus. Haven't had it out of the box since.
>
>I have _both_ Android & iOS, and I _know_ the difference.
>o With respect to privacy, there's a _huge_ difference
>
>But privacy is like security, where the weak links prevail.
>o Android & iOS have the same weak links with respect to privacy

ANd I don't use either.

>
>Where they differ, isn't meaningful because in the end, they're the same
>o In _many_ (many_ ways, Android is far more private than iOS
>o In some ways, iOS is far more private than Android

I'm on Blackberry

>
>In the end, I can tell you two things about _anyone_ who claims one is more
>private than the other.
>1. They're spouting completely imaginary bullshit, and,
>2. They don't have a clue what they're talking about.
>
>I "claim" I do - where _all_ my claims are tested & verified as fact:
>o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

Blackberry had them all beat.

[rbowman]

On 05/19/2019 08:24 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> hat's funny about those who proclaim iOS "better" is that they don't even
> realize that on iOS you _can't_ eliminate the iCloud account - nor - more
> sinisterly - can you eliminate your Apple ID from being associated with
> _every_ app you download - bar none - where - on Android - you don't need
> _any_ id to download apps, and you can easily pass apps back and forth to
> _any_ phone - so in that sense, iOS is like big brother keep track of you.

I am not familiar with Apple products but with Android it is easy to
sideload an APK that nothing to do with Google.

I found it interesting that Kavanaugh sided with the liberals on the
Apple case. The class action suit is in a lower court but the Supremes
ruled that the consumers have standing and the suit can go forward.

If nothing else it may make Apple users aware that Apple collects 30% on
every app that goes through the App Store, and there is no other path.
Apple also charges developers about $100 a year to put their apps in the
store.

I've always been puzzled why the libs are so in love with Apple, the
most regimented, single sourced company going. They love to throw
'fascist' around but I can't think of a company that is more based on my
way or the highway.

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:7f44eedq8gv0fk1fd...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 20 May 2019 12:14:43 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Because you have to trust g-mail to use it.
>>
>>Nope, its trivial to check how well their automatic spam filter is
>>working.
>>
>>> I and many others do not.
>>
>>Irrelevant to how well their completely automatic spam
>>filter works.
>>
>>>>>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
>>>>>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
>>>>>>that gmail sees.
>>>>>
>>>>> You really think so??????
>>>>
>>>>I know so thanks.
>>>>
>>>>> 30 years in the business
>>>>
>>>>Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.
>>>
>>> The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail.
>>
>>Wrong with email.
>
> OK - it was available to limited users in ARPANET. The worldwide web
> came to be in the early nineties - based on TCP/IP adapted to arpanet
> in 1983.

There wasn't just those two.

> With the worldwide web e-mail became publicly available.

I never said that I have only used what is publicly available.

Commercial
> e-mail as we know it started with microsoft mail on the early Apple
> computer in 1988, and for DOS in 1991.

That mangles the real story too.

> Compuserve was the first (1989) online service to provide internet
> connectivity to the masses over dial-up connections and provided an
> e-mail service between compuserve users. Lotus notes camne out in 1989
> as well. - so lets agree on 1989 as the start of e-mail as we know it.
>
> I got my start in the business in 1987

Way after I was involved with electronic communication.

[billj]

"rbowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:gkeite...@mid.individual.net...

> On 05/19/2019 08:22 PM, billj wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
>> news:35i3eeh3qm86cf73d...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I have no use for Google (other than their search engine)
>>
>> Mad, google maps leaves the rest for dead.
>
> And some have left google maps for dead... Like many things Google, the
> terms were initially quite liberal until they figured out how to monetize
> the product.

They have never monetized google maps enough to matter.
I never see any ads for anything I have ever chosen to look at
in google maps or have chosen to visit. Obviously something
as expensive to provide as that has to be paid for somehow,
particularly with the streetview cars and very fast amendment
of their maps when told about map errors by the general public.

And their traffic reports based on what they can see with cellphone
base reports of moving cellphones leaves the rest for dead too.

And I never ever see any ads when using google maps.

That caused sites to switch to OSM or other
> alternatives.

More fool them.

> Talking to Google about using their API left me with the feeling they were
> feeling out what the market would bear. There is no question they've sunk
> a lot of money into the product and are looking for a return.

But whatever they are doing in that regard hasn’t produced
any downside that I care about.

> The general public doesn't see the other side.

Sure, but what matters is if they see any downsides like ads or not.

I do sometimes see an ad for something in facebook that I have
looked at with google itself, but don’t mind about that and don’t
even bother to try to stop those ads showing up. It doesn’t happen
enough to matter and I use both multiple times a day. Dozens of
times a day most days with google itself. IMO they do their ads
very unobtrusively and I have enough of a clue to realise that
something as expensive as the entire google operation has
to be paid for somehow and am happy to pay for it with
the minimal advertising I see with google itself.

> As far as accuracy, no digitized maps, or paper maps for that matter, are
> 100% accurate.

Sure, but what matters is how quickly they amend their maps when
errors are reported. I have had some of the errors I have reported
fixed within hours, mostly when they can verify the error using their
own street view.

Apple has always ignored every map error I have ever reported to them.

[billj]

"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.xxx> wrote in message
news:DsoEE.22171$_23....@fx23.iad...

You're free to tell them about it and they do fix most map errors
very quickly, most often within hours, particularly if you document
the error properly like with decent photos or video.

[Clare Snyder]

.Radio or telephone or telegraph????
And at what level?
Commercial use of the internet?
Network security?
Web hosting?
Maintaining a mailserver?
Domain mail?

Or just using g-mail?
G-mail and hotmail addresses say a whole lot about a company.

[Clare Snyder]

Saying ANYTHING is better than Apple is not much of a recommendation
in the opinion of many

[rbowman]

On 05/19/2019 09:24 PM, billj wrote:
> They have never monetized google maps enough to matter.
> I never see any ads for anything I have ever chosen to look at
> in google maps or have chosen to visit. Obviously something
> as expensive to provide as that has to be paid for somehow,
> particularly with the streetview cars and very fast amendment
> of their maps when told about map errors by the general public.

You are a consumer. If a site incorporates google maps to display
information do you think they get a free ride? I'm a developer working
on several GIS products so I see the other side of the picture. Nothing
is free.

[Xeno]

On 19/5/19 8:01 pm, Justin Trudeau wrote:
> On 5/18/19 10:01 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

>> BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
>> to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users.  You
>> can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
>> Cadillac
>

> Android is an open source operating system.  Anyone can download the
> source and modify it.
>
> https://source.android.com/
>

That was what I was thinking. Google just run their own derivative of
Android - which any company can do.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[Xeno]

On 19/5/19 3:53 am, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2019 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
> <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
>> seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
>> Google email?
>>
> Larry Ellison summed it up best. "If you are not paying for a product,
> you are the product".
>
Indeed! If you watch FTA TV (with ads) you definitely are the *product*.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 12:22:16 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

> Mad, google maps leaves the rest for dead.

You can shove Google maps up yours, too, you ridiculous M$, Google, Apple,
etc. adorer!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 13:30:21 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

> You're free to tell them about it and they do fix most map errors
> very quickly, most often within hours, particularly if you document
> the error properly like with decent photos or video.

I doubt he is a miserable lonely asshole like you whose only contacts in
real life are Siri, Alexa and the providers you keep communicating with
...in addition to your insipid trolling on these groups.

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Xeno]

On 19/5/19 5:18 am, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2019 14:58:35 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>
>> On 18 May 2019 14:22:36 -0400, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>>> Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>>>> Unfortunately, I don't know yet how _turning off_ scanning is possible.
>>>> o Do you?
>>>
>>> If you aren't paying for a service, you aren't the customer. If you aren't
>>> the customer, you are likely the product.
>>>
>>> Giving google this information is how you pay for your mail service. If you
>>> do not like giving this information up, purchase your mail service elsewhere
>>> or don't send that information by email. Google sells that information, which
>>> is how they can afford to provide email to you for free.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of places that will sell you IMAPS service that is reasonably
>>> private and reasonably well-maintained. I am not suggesting you abandon google
>>> altogether, but I am certainly suggesting that if you care about keeping your
>>> email information private that you should not be using gmail.
>>> --scott
>>
>> I bought a web service that includes a bunch of Email addresses and I
>> use that for anything I don't want to make public information. It is
>> really pretty cheap, like less than $100 a year. I also have lots of
>> web space for posting things instead of using 3d party sites like drop
>> box that might change the rules at a moment's notice. or make anyone
>> who wants to look have to give up their personal information.
> +1 +1 +1 +1
>
> Even your internet supplier provides one or more email addresses with
> your account. Many use Yahoo servers. Yahoo is not the best, but it
> sure beets anything G-. Megamailservers is another one commonlly used
> by ISP's. They are not free - but you ARE paying for the service along
> with your internet connection, so why not use it????

I get 5 free email addresses with my internet account with Optus. They
do all the spam scanning for me and also give me web access.
>
> Arlen just can't seem to figure out these SIMPLE things. He has to
> make EVERYTHING complicated. Must be related to Micky.
>
He makes everything *painful*.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 13:24:46 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the already well-known senile bullshit>

Like I said, you can shove Google maps up yours, just like you can do with
your Alexa and your Philips Hue and all your other electronic contraptions
at home that you have to use because REAL people in REAL life keep giving
you the cold shoulder, you pathological self-opinionated, self-important
senile asshole!


--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 12:14:43 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>>>> 30 years in the business
>>>
>>>Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.
>>
>> The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail.
>
> Wrong with email.

In auto-contradicting mode again, you abnormal pathological
auto-contradicting senile asshole? <tsk>

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rodent:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <XnsA97071CF43...@85.214.115.223>

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 13:07:46 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH yet more senile bullshit from the notorious senile bullshitter>

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:q5b4eete80e7nqadd...@4ax.com...

Computers.

> And at what level?
> Commercial use of the internet?
> Network security?
> Web hosting?
> Maintaining a mailserver?
> Domain mail?

> Or just using g-mail?

Nope.

> G-mail and hotmail addresses say a whole lot about a company.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

[billj]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:kmb4eet60s9tct9bd...@4ax.com...

Only the fools.

[billj]

"rbowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message

news:gkeruu...@mid.individual.net...

> On 05/19/2019 09:24 PM, billj wrote:
>> They have never monetized google maps enough to matter.
>> I never see any ads for anything I have ever chosen to look at
>> in google maps or have chosen to visit. Obviously something
>> as expensive to provide as that has to be paid for somehow,
>> particularly with the streetview cars and very fast amendment
>> of their maps when told about map errors by the general public.

> You are a consumer.

I am in fact much more than a consumer.

> If a site incorporates google maps to display information do you think
> they get a free ride?

Or course not. The immense cost of google maps obviously has to be paid for.

> I'm a developer working on several GIS products so I see the other side of
> the picture.

So am I.

> Nothing is free.

Plenty is, most obviously with OSM.

[Rod Speed]

"Xeno" <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:gkf6p2...@mid.individual.net...

> On 19/5/19 3:53 am, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 May 2019 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
>> <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
>>> seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
>>> Google email?
>>>
>> Larry Ellison summed it up best. "If you are not paying for a product,
>> you are the product".
>>
> Indeed! If you watch FTA TV (with ads) you definitely are the *product*.

I'm not. I don’t watch any FTA TV live anymore and mostly record it and skip
the ads.

I did watch the ABC TV vote count live but there were no ads.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 19:08:24 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>> Saying ANYTHING is better than Apple is not much of a recommendation
>> in the opinion of many
>
> Only the fools.

There's NO fool around like you, you ridiculous self-important 85-year-old
senile pest. <BG>

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 5:52:17 PM UTC-4, billj wrote:

> And gmail sees the spam emails much sooner than that.

Of course. Mostly in the form of complaints against gmail users.


Cindy Hamilton

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 19:13:27 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>> You are a consumer.
>
> I am in fact much more than a consumer.

You are a PROVEN typical mindless consumer, M$, Google, Apple and Amazon
adorer, you ridiculous 85-year-old senile pest!

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 19:16:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH senile Ozzietard's latest trollshit>

[Peeler]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 19:07:14 +1000, billj, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


>

> Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

More and more people seem to have fun thrashing you abnormal senile pest,
senile Rodent. But then, self-opinionated and self-important as you are you
are slow to realize it! LOL

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 6:35:11 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:

> On Mon, 20 May 2019 07:52:05 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

> >news:qvf3eepngaqgp6hlt...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 19 May 2019 14:37:02 +1000, "billj" <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Actually there are a lot of anti-spam systems that you can filter
> >>>> your "private server" email with
> >>>
> >>>Problem is that they never see the huge volume of email
> >>>that gmail sees and so can't do the obvious initial spam
> >>>check, see what emails are sent to huge numbers of
> >>>individuals with just the name of the recipient changed etc.
> >>
> >> Actually they see a hell of a lot more than G-Mail sees
> >
> >Oh bullshit.
> >
> >> - as the database is comprized of spam reports
> >> from many of the "big players" inthe game.
> >
> >There isnt any bigger player in the game than gmail
> >with the volume of emails that are seen by the player.
> >
> >> The database is updated daily (sometimes oftener)

> >
> >And gmail sees the spam emails much sooner than that.
> >

> >>>Sure, newsletters and catalogs etc that the recipient has
> >>>signed up for will also be identified by that approach,
> >>>but nothing an individual runs can ever do as well in
> >>>that regard and I have never found any of that stuff that
> >>>I have asked for being falsely identified as spam by gmail.
> >>>I have seen that happen with yahoo and it was from my
> >>>electricity supplier regarding a credit to my account.
> >>>
> >>>- including apps that run on your
> >>>> "security appliance" like a "watchguard" -where YOU have control AND
> >>>> it has all the spam data thar Google has.
> >>>
> >>>No it does not because they never see anything like the volume
> >>>of emails that gmail sees.
> >>
> >> Like I said - the big players in network security see a HELL of a lot
> >> more than G-Mail sees
> >
> >Bullshit they do.
> >
> >> - and these applications make it easy for you to add white-list
> >> and blacklist filtering ON TOP OF the genereic filter.
> >
> >Don't have to bother farting around with those when you use gmail.
> >
> >> So you can whitelist your power company, or anyone else you want to
> >> get ALL mail from - regardless what the spam filter says - or you can
> >> blacklist a complete domain, or any mail coming from a particular
> >> country identifier.
> >
> >Don't have to bother farting around with those when you use gmail.
> >
>
>
> Because you have to trust g-mail to use it. I and many others do not.

> >>>> On the insurance company exchange box we had
> >>>> spam filtering that was every bit as good as G-Mail
> >>>
> >>>No it was not because it never saw the volume of spam
> >>>that gmail sees.
> >>
> >> You really think so??????
> >
> >I know so thanks.
> >
> >> 30 years in the business
> >
> >Been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than that thanks.
>

> The internet hasn't been around that long - nor e-mail. Been in it
> from the start.

The World Wide Web was invented in 1989. The Internet existed prior
to that and e-mail was in use long before 1989. Usenet dates back
to 1979.

Cindy Hamilton

[Ed Pawlowski]

Told them about is twice over the months. Still missing a few streets
where I am. I can put a pointer in the undeveloped acres but cannot get
directions to it.

UPS and USPS has it but not much else.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/20/2019 5:07 AM, billj wrote:
>
>
> "Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

>

>> G-mail and hotmail addresses say a whole lot about a company.
>
> Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

Call it what you want, but he has a point. Would you bank with a guy,
money...@gmail.com? Unless you use that bank in Nigeria that has my
million dollars.

[Xeno]

That'd be about right. I had email in the 80s and was using the internet
via dialup by the mid 80s. Working in education gave me a heads up
there. I started on usenet with ELM from memory sometime around 90 or 91.