# Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit

7181 views

### Joshua

Jul 16, 2004, 12:37:36 PM7/16/04
to
How do I wire up a 480v Single Phase circuit? I'm familiar with 480V
3P but not single. The machine has a preinstalled 3-wire cord, one of
which is a ground so I'd only be using twom wires.

Also what exactly does poles mean? Like a circuit breaker is either
1-2-3 poles, is that the same as phase? Thanks.

### HA HA Budys Here

Jul 16, 2004, 1:15:55 PM7/16/04
to
>From: jcb...@sbcglobal.net (Joshua)

"Single phase" 480 is just like single phase 240 residential service, only at a
higher voltage. It's called single phase because the voltage is derived from a
center tapped transformer fed from one single primary.

I've never seen a single phase 480v service. 480 is commercial/industrial in
nature and it's generally supplied as 3 phases.

### Chris Lewis

Jul 16, 2004, 3:41:54 PM7/16/04
to
According to HA HA Budys Here <hahabu...@aol.com>:

> >From: jcb...@sbcglobal.net (Joshua)

> >How do I wire up a 480v Single Phase circuit? I'm familiar with 480V
> >3P but not single. The machine has a preinstalled 3-wire cord, one of
> >which is a ground so I'd only be using twom wires.

> >Also what exactly does poles mean? Like a circuit breaker is either
> >1-2-3 poles, is that the same as phase? Thanks.

I think "poles" means "hots" in this context. You have two.

> "Single phase" 480 is just like single phase 240 residential service, only at a
> higher voltage. It's called single phase because the voltage is derived from a
> center tapped transformer fed from one single primary.

> I've never seen a single phase 480v service. 480 is commercial/industrial in
> nature and it's generally supplied as 3 phases.

I think he's just pulling two hots (out of three) from a 480V three phase feed.

At that voltage, I'd normally hire an electrician just to be _damn_ sure I don't
do something dumb.

Most 120V stupidities are survivable. I consider 480V instant death.

[During the ice storm we wired a 600V three phase 200Kw generator. In an
emergency, you gotta do what you gotta do. But you can damn betcha we were
careful, and warned everyone that sticking one's hand into the step-down
transformer was not just dangerous but instant death. They paid attention.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

### volts500

Jul 16, 2004, 5:58:16 PM7/16/04
to

"Joshua" <jcb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

480 volt single phase is any two phases line-to-line of a 3 phase 480 volt
system. If you had to ask a simple question like that, it would be in your
best interests (and possibly others) NOT to be messing with it. Call a
qualified Commercial/Industrial electrician.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 16, 2004, 7:26:44 PM7/16/04
to

"volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:YbYJc.48819\$IX4.5...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

Poor description--two phases ???

--

SVL

### Chris Lewis

Jul 16, 2004, 10:03:24 PM7/16/04
to
According to PrecisionMachinisT <Precision...@hotmail.com>:

Not really. "Two phases from a 3 phase circuit" is a perfectly
reasonable way of saying it. Doesn't make the resulting circuit two
phase tho. It's single phase. Hint: if you were to scope one hot
relative to the other, it's still a simple sine wave.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 16, 2004, 10:38:40 PM7/16/04
to

"Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:2lrfncF...@uni-berlin.de...

Yes, really....

"Two phases from a three phase circuit" would better describe a circuit
connected to a three phase supply through three wires but having no load
across one of the phases.

Hint: our shop has a single phase service at 400 amps, we buss 170 amps of
this to generate our own three phase power via rotary transformer in order
to supply the machinery.

At any rate, a better description IMO would have been something like " a
two wire service, usually one phase of a three phase supply"

--

SVL

### TURTLE

Jul 16, 2004, 1:50:17 PM7/16/04
to

"Joshua" <jcb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

This is Turtle.

480 volt single phase motors / equipment is very rare to say the least. There is
only one i know of and it is the 480 volt HVAC rooftop systems which have 480
volt condenser fan motors on them. First you have to get 480 volt service to the
building which only comes in 3 phase service and just use two of the hots of the
3 hots for power. If your thinking of running this at your house. the cost is
going to be high to get 480 volt service to your house. The electric company
will supply you with 480 volt service for about \$4K atleast and then you have to
be set up to have the switch box for the 480 volt serice.

Now you can look into getting a buck and boost transformer and get 480 volt
service out of your home 220 volt service. That will run you about \$2K atleast.

You got me here with what you would have that runs on single phase 480 volt that
could be useful to you. It would be nice to know what it is.

TURTLE

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### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 16, 2004, 11:11:09 PM7/16/04
to

"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2lrj0vF...@uni-berlin.de...

Hello, Turtle.

You gots me there too--mebbe he found some lights for cheap and is gonna
grow dope or something.....

Now for a small load, a transformer for 220/440 shouldnt be too expensive on
the surplus market though--Ebay, perhaps.....

--

SVL

### TURTLE

Jul 17, 2004, 1:35:00 AM7/17/04
to

"PrecisionMachinisT" <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2lrjmjF...@uni-berlin.de...

This is Turtle.

I have very seldom that a small load on something that uses 480 volts to pull
it. You use 480 volt service to get it on for power of anything using it. other
than that 220 volt service will run a great deal and easler to find power for
it.

Awwwwww E-bay for quality stuff. Not Me.

TURTLE

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### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 17, 2004, 1:57:25 AM7/17/04
to

"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2lrt01F...@uni-berlin.de...

Okay--agreed......

Still he leaves me to wondering what exactly is it he is trying to fire up
here ???

I have transformers do this 220/440 and vice versa but alway for 3 phase
stuff.

--

SVL

### volts500

Jul 17, 2004, 3:47:18 AM7/17/04
to

"PrecisionMachinisT" <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2lrhpmF...@uni-berlin.de...

One phase to neutral of a 480 volt 3 phase supply is single-phase but the
voltage is only 277 volt. The OP wanted to know what single-phase 480 volt
was. Chris was absolutely right, whenever 2 phases of a 3 phase system are
combined, the resultant sine-wave is single-phase. (It's called
single-phase because _that's_ what it is.)

On a 277/480 volt 3 phase Wye connected system (which is VERY common and
most likely what the OP has):
Single-phase 277 volt is one phase to neutral.
Single-phase 480 volt is any two phases, line-to-line.

The same is true for the also so very common 120/208 volt 3 phase Wye
connected system:
Single-phase 120 volt is one phase to neutral.
Single-phase 208 volt is any two phases, line-to-line.

Like Turtle said, a single-phase 480 volt load is very uncommon. Usually
you'll see single-phase 277 volt loads (one phase to neutral, very common
for Commercial lighting) sharing the neutral on 3 phase branch-circuits, or
3 phase 480 volt (with no neutral) for motor loads.

One example of a single-phase 480 volt load, though, is Commercial parking
lot lighting. While 277 volt for parking lot lighting is more common, in
somes cases the light ballasts are sometimes connected single-phase 480 volt
(any two phases line-to-line), when the runs are very long. A 3 phase 480
volt feeder is provided and the load is balanced accordingly. That is, the
first light pole is connected phase A to phase B. The second light pole is
connected phase A to phase C, the third light pole is connected phase B to
phase C, then repeat for each additional light pole.

Another example of a 480 volt single-phase load is a control transformer for
a motor controller. Usually the motor circuit is 3 phase 480 volts, but the
desired control voltage is 120 volts. In that case, a single-phase 480 volt
(line-to-line) control transformer is connected across any two phases of the
feeder (properly fused, etc) and steps it down to the 120 volts.

Like others have stated, I'd like to know what the 480 volt single-phase
load is that the OP is talking about. If I were to guess, I'd say something
with a heating element. That's why I told the OP to call a qualified
COMMERCIAL or industrial electrician, because if the load is really
single-phase 277 and he slaps 480 single-phase on it, it's toast. Plus
there are other, mostly safety issues, that he probably isn't aware of.

### Jake

Jul 17, 2004, 1:42:53 PM7/17/04
to
I originally thought it might be a heater too, as I've seen very few
single-phase 480 motors. Many of the mid-sized infrareds I've seen are 480
single phase... the bigger ones above 7 kW or so are three phase but can be
wired single if you've got the amps.

Dope growing is something I've heard these things are used for.... my
brother's a police officer and has told me some of the stories on these
nutty hookups. I'm also told that in some areas they ask the power company
to report 'unusual' high residential loads to the cops for further
investigation. They even have heat-sensitive cameras so they can sit outside
your house and look for warmer rooms.

It would be interesting to see what the OP has here, and what he wants to do
with it.

Jake

### Chuck Yerkes

Jul 17, 2004, 8:04:53 PM7/17/04
to
Jake wrote:
...

> Dope growing is something I've heard these things are used for.... my
> brother's a police officer and has told me some of the stories on these
> nutty hookups. I'm also told that in some areas they ask the power company
> to report 'unusual' high residential loads to the cops for further
> investigation. They even have heat-sensitive cameras so they can sit outside
> your house and look for warmer rooms.

Ah, the 4th amendment. How I miss it.

> It would be interesting to see what the OP has here, and what he wants to do
> with it.

I wonder if he (the OP) really wants "single phase" or is
misunderstanding his own needs.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 17, 2004, 8:25:13 PM7/17/04
to

"volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aQ4Kc.63842\$uK.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

>
> "PrecisionMachinisT" <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2lrhpmF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > At any rate, a better description IMO would have been something like "
a
> > two wire service, usually one phase of a three phase supply"
>
> One phase to neutral of a 480 volt 3 phase supply is single-phase but the
> voltage is only 277 volt. The OP wanted to know what single-phase 480
volt
> was. Chris was absolutely right, whenever 2 phases of a 3 phase system
are
> combined, the resultant sine-wave is single-phase. (It's called
> single-phase because _that's_ what it is.)
>

Horse shit.

Makes absolutely no differance how it is derived--could be from a single
phase generator, or battery backup with an inverter and still be single
phase.

You need to toss the three phase reference out the door because it is of
absolutely no value in defining single phase power.....

You have the cart in front of the horse--three phase being three single
phase circuits that are 120 degrees out of phase from each other, connected
together in a star or a triangle configuration.

And by the way, anyone who knows diddly squat about power distribution is
likely not very impressed at your obvious attempts at further clouding the
issue by your rattling off various types of three phase service, bringing in
line to line and center tap voltages, control transformers, streetlight
wiring and all the rest of the irrevelant crap.

Have a nice day.

--

SVL

### ba...@zotnet.net

Jul 17, 2004, 10:24:59 PM7/17/04
to

As you know from your experience with 3-phase power, the voltage
between any two of the hots is full voltage while the voltage from one
hot to neutral is related by square root of three. Thus 480/277 volt
systems that are common in commercial industrial buildings where the
lights use 277 and the motors use 480.
To get 480 single phase you can use any two of the hots and wire them
to the two wires that are not your ground.
If you have more than one of these items to hook up, do what you can
to balance the load by not hooking all of them across the same two
hots (say phase A and phase B).
Be sure to use boxes and switches rated for 600 volts not the usual
sort rated for 240 or as they say you'll be sorry....
If you have any doubts, hire a qualified electrician.

### Volts500

Jul 18, 2004, 1:55:08 AM7/18/04
to
>Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
>From: "PrecisionMachinisT" Precision...@hotmail.com
>Date: 7/17/2004 8:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2ltubfF...@uni-berlin.de>

>
>
>"volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:aQ4Kc.63842\$uK.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>> "PrecisionMachinisT" <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2lrhpmF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> >
>> >
>> > At any rate, a better description IMO would have been something like "
>a
>> > two wire service, usually one phase of a three phase supply"
>>
>> One phase to neutral of a 480 volt 3 phase supply is single-phase but the
>> voltage is only 277 volt. The OP wanted to know what single-phase 480
>volt
>> was. Chris was absolutely right, whenever 2 phases of a 3 phase system
>are
>> combined, the resultant sine-wave is single-phase. (It's called
>> single-phase because _that's_ what it is.)
>>
>
>Horse shit.
>
>Makes absolutely no differance how it is derived--could be from a single
>phase generator, or battery backup with an inverter and still be single
>phase.
>
>You need to toss the three phase reference out the door because it is of
>absolutely no value in defining single phase power.....

Get a clue, dummy. In order to get 277/480v from the power co. it's gonna be 3
phase. Obviously you have NO conception of how single phase power is derived
from 3 phase power.

>You have the cart in front of the horse--three phase being three single
>phase circuits that are 120 degrees out of phase from each other, connected
>together in a star or a triangle configuration.

What do you think a WYE connection is?

>And by the way, anyone who knows diddly squat about power distribution is
>likely not very impressed at your obvious attempts at further clouding the
>issue by your rattling off various types of three phase service, bringing in
>line to line and center tap voltages, control transformers, streetlight
>wiring and all the rest of the irrevelant crap.

I should have known that a moron like you couldn't understand basic electric
disribution.

>
>Have a nice day.
>
>--
>
>SVL

Looks like you're another one of those alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe
electrician's........as you are making an ass of yourself over knowledge common
to the electrical industry. There is no doubt that you have never done
electrical work for a living to make the statements that you have made. Go back
to doing machine work and leave the wiring to the sparkies before you kill
yourself or someone else.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 18, 2004, 3:49:16 AM7/18/04
to

"Volts500" <volt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040718015508...@mb-m05.aol.com...

.........DAMN........I'M IMPRESSED.........

Fuck off, you imbecile--and just see how far you get by calling people
names.

The OP never mentioned 277 volts....YOU DID THIS, ostensibly as an excuse to
call someone a "dummy".....But if I want 277v though, I certainly dont have
to derive it from a polyphase system.....

Again, voltage has nothing to do with it. Single phase is nothing more than
a single a/c circuit, you scope it and it alternates between a high and a
low voltage.

You only have a single phase.....this is as opposed to a polyphase
system....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=single-phase&r=67

[
1 entry found for single-phase.
sinÂ·gle-phase (snggl-fz)
]

The voltage can be changed easy enough with transformers--run it here....run
it there....isolate it....center tap it, its split phase---but STILL, SINGLE
PHASE......makes no differance how it was derived.......use an old telephone
crank for all I care......

FWIW, I actually have some motors that run on FOUR and some that even run on
FIVE PHASES--commutation is via PWM technology.....

>
> >You have the cart in front of the horse--three phase being three single
> >phase circuits that are 120 degrees out of phase from each other,
connected
> >together in a star or a triangle configuration.
>
>
> What do you think a WYE connection is?
>

Could be one of the examples above--why dontcha just go ahead and take a
wild guess ???

>
> >And by the way, anyone who knows diddly squat about power distribution is
> >likely not very impressed at your obvious attempts at further clouding
the
> >issue by your rattling off various types of three phase service, bringing
in
> >line to line and center tap voltages, control transformers, streetlight
> >wiring and all the rest of the irrevelant crap.
>
> I should have known that a moron like you couldn't understand basic
electric
> disribution.
>

You havent a clue as to what I might or might not understand, and your doing
yourself no favors by continuing with the name calling here.

>
> Looks like you're another one of those alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe
> electrician's........as you are making an ass of yourself over knowledge
common
> to the electrical industry. There is no doubt that you have never done
> electrical work for a living to make the statements that you have made. Go
back
> to doing machine work and leave the wiring to the sparkies before you kill
> yourself or someone else.
>

....LOL.....

I was wiring residential and building shortwave radio from scratch at the
age of ten years old.......

....AND.....

As to your "alt.H(ack)VAC wannbe" statement--you are really starting to
sound a LOT like some of them guys there with this "leave the wiring to the
sparkies before you kill yourself or someone else" attitude, no?

...ALSO....

Where *I* live, you dont need a license to do electrical work, it just has
to pass inspection--you just can't charge for it with no license.....

I've wired up many, many new services--and I never once been gigged by the
inspectors.......

The last one I did was for myself, a 400amp ct single phase setup with a
pair of 200 amp panels, each panel also feeding a 100 amp to a 50 hp rotary
transformer to generate three phase for the machine shop, this "generated"
power being fed into a pair of three phase panels, branch circuits then
feeding the machinery.

The rotary units I engineered and wired myself, inside of a pair of hoffman
24x36 cabinets--they're protected with overload contactors and they start at
the push of a button, a 220/120v transformer providing control
voltage.....if mains power is interrupted for even a split second the entire
system drops out in order to prevent possible utility line spikes from
damaging the connected load.

You can fool some of the people some of the time.....

"The term "single phase" is a counterpoint to another kind of power system
called "polyphase" which we are about to investigate in detail."

"Single phase power systems are defined by having an AC source with only one
voltage waveform."

Doh!!!

--

SVL

ibreve.gif
prime.gif
schwa.gif
amacr.gif
lprime.gif

### TURTLE

Jul 18, 2004, 2:21:08 AM7/18/04
to

"PrecisionMachinisT" <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ltubfF...@uni-berlin.de...

This is Turtle.

There is no electric company that supplies electric service to any building in
the United States which is 480 volt service without it being 3 phase. You can't
seperate 3 phase service from 480 volt service for you can't have one without
the other.

Now he did go with a drawed out explanation of the services but everybody does
get carried away sometimes.

I just can't get your counter point here with your reply. Awwwww.

TURTLE

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### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 18, 2004, 1:59:27 PM7/18/04
to

"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2lvnb4F...@uni-berlin.de...

Only point being it doesnt HAVE to come from an electric company is all....

I could bump it up with a transformer, for instance to power a well pump
that is fairly far away, then step back down again at the wellhouse.....

Or I can run a small hydropower installation remotey--and easily feed for a
fair distance at 440, 440 or even 575 volts, dropping the voltage again at
the point of use.....

Or I can fire up my little coleman generator.....there aint no three phase
output on that puppy now is there ??? ( though I could easily step this up
to be 480v if there was a need )

Single phase simply does not have to come from a three phase source in order
to be single phase--yes if it comes from a utility company it has almost
certainly been derived from a three phase supply someplace upstream, however
this is just fluff when it comes to describing as to what single phase power
really is.

===

My whole point only being that Mr. "Volts5000" can't handle anyone so much
as suggesting he might have given wrong or incomplete information without
him going off on a tizzy, because he is such an arrogant know it all.

I seen it before over in alt.havoc and it was so damned easy to bait him
into repeating the exact same behavior all over again here it's
pathetic.......sheesh--all it took was for me to post "Poor description--two
phases ???" to set him off this time.

===

--

SVL

### Volts500

Jul 18, 2004, 6:38:11 PM7/18/04
to
>Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
>From: "PrecisionMachinisT" Precision...@hotmail.com
>Date: 7/18/2004 1:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2lvs46F...@uni-berlin.de>

>My whole point only being that Mr. "Volts5000" can't handle anyone so much
>as suggesting he might have given wrong or incomplete information without
>him going off on a tizzy, because he is such an arrogant know it all.
>
>I seen it before over in alt.havoc and it was so damned easy to bait him
>into repeating the exact same behavior all over again here it's
>pathetic.......sheesh--all it took was for me to post "Poor description--two
>phases ???" to set him off this time.

>SVL

Excuse me? My first reply to you was _civil_, YOU are the one who started with
the cussing and the put downs. One of those dish it out but can't take it kinda
guys, eh? It was OK for YOU to call me a stupid ass the other day in alt.hvac
after you displayed total ignorance of the topic being discussed, just like
you're doing now, but when I return the favor you cry like a baby. Point
is....don't post stupid crap and you won't have to whine about being corrected.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 18, 2004, 7:48:31 PM7/18/04
to

"Volts500" <volt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040718183811...@mb-m17.aol.com...

> don't post stupid crap and you won't have to whine about being corrected.

Like what--stating some cock and bull story alluding that single phase would
always come from a three phase source, then sticking to it come hell or high
water ???

....LOL....

At any rate, fishin season is pretty much over here at least for the time
being.......I would go back and argue some more but seems pointless--what a
piece of work you are, and I do mean that as a complement.

If you care to explain to us one more time what single phase current is,
appreciate if you could do it without any reference to polyphase
systems--this because generally one should have a working knowlege of these
before moving on to the various three phase distribution stuff, instead of
it being the other way around--and because in your very first reply you
stated to the effect the OP didnt understand polyphase systems despite his
initial claim to the contrary.

Cheers,

--

SVL

### I-zheet M'drurz

Jul 18, 2004, 8:02:40 PM7/18/04
to
Volts500 wrote:

Who gives a shit?

No, seriously Half-Volt: Why is it that EVERY one of these
never-ending pissing matches always seems to have YOU as one
of the combatants?

Oh yeah, right. You know IT ALL.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

### TURTLE

Jul 19, 2004, 12:27:25 AM7/19/04
to

"Volts500" <volt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040718183811...@mb-m17.aol.com...
This is Turtle.

So After the voicing your anger, What do you have to say about it.

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 19, 2004, 1:05:43 AM7/19/04
to

"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2m11a4F...@uni-berlin.de...

....LOL....

Ole sparky0 here seems he aint got no clues as to why I would want to call
him a Stoopid ASS........

The topic was "Cleaning an evaporator coil".........

And he knocks out the following reply :

=======

"volts500" <volt...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message

news:lFiIc.43252\$IX4.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:7I2dnXgMvNU...@comcast.com...
> > Call your local *competent*, licensed, insured, professionally trained,
> HVAC
> > technician to come and properly clean the coils, and have him/her
service
> > the system while they are there.
>
> BRAHAHAHAHA!! I hope that he doesn't call one of you assholes by
> mistake.....he'll be sorry.
>
>

=======

And only then is when called him a stoopid ass......

=======

Hey, Eddy......we all know the beaver can dish it out just fine, but then he
always throws a big fit when somebody else gives him a taste of his own
medicine........

--

SVL

### Volts500

Jul 19, 2004, 5:06:45 AM7/19/04
to
>Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
>From: "I-zheet M'drurz" diesp...@icubed.com
>Date: 7/18/2004 8:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Xns952ACBE4F9A...@130.133.1.4>

>
>Volts500 wrote:
>
> Who gives a shit?

Obviously not YOU, I-shit-fer-brains........you've proved many times over that
you could careless about the live's and safety of others, with your dangerous
advice in the past, as long as your fragile, overinflated, ego remains intact.

> No, seriously Half-Volt: Why is it that EVERY one of these
> never-ending pissing matches always seems to have YOU as one
> of the combatants?

Looks like YOU are doing an excellent job of continuing our "feud". Just can't
let a sleeping dog lie, can ya Tomi Boi? Perhaps others don't want to take the
time, or take the resulting (and sure to come) flak that it takes to set little
whimps like you in your place when you post inaccurate and dangerous electrical

> Oh yeah, right. You know IT ALL.

No, Tom, but it's easy to see how a simpleton like you would think so.

Thanks, coming from a clueless troll like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

### Volts500

Jul 19, 2004, 5:55:40 AM7/19/04
to
>Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
>From: "PrecisionMachinisT" Precision...@hotmail.com
>Date: 7/19/2004 1:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2m135gF...@uni-berlin.de>

>> This is Turtle.
>>
>> So After the voicing your anger, What do you have to say about it.
>>
>> TURTLE
>>
>
>....LOL....
>
>Ole sparky0 here seems he aint got no clues as to why I would want to call
>him a Stoopid ASS........
>
>The topic was "Cleaning an evaporator coil".........

Get your facts straight, if your gonna try to use it as a put down, ya chump.
It was bleed over from the "Package Unit Wire/Amp Rating" thread, you know it.
You know, where you found it necessary to check-in as a cluless moron (along
with many of the others in the alt.HVAC subgroup of alt.H(ack)VAC
flex/fiberboard duct boys), just like you found it necessary to check-in as a
moron in _this_ thread.

Here's YOUR clueless post :

Message-id: <2le3idF...@uni-berlin.de>

"You stoopid ass.

The breaker size is dependant on the wire gage--and it is to protect the
wire.......makes no differance if there never gets a load connected to it at
all, ever......

Matters not if you connect a 100 amp load to a # 10 wire with a 30 amp
breaker--sure it will trip the breaker, but the important thing is it will
trip the breaker before the wire catches fire.
--
SVL"

Bitting at my heels like a small dog, no wonder you got kicked, eh?

>And only then is when called him a stoopid ass......

Like I said, get the facts straight.
Then you came into this NG and whined about name calling after displaying more
of your ignorance about electrical matters <snicker>....what a chump.

### Volts500

Jul 19, 2004, 6:13:08 AM7/19/04
to
>Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
>From: "TURTLE" tur...@worldnetla.net
>Date: 7/19/2004 12:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2m11a4F...@uni-berlin.de>

>So After the voicing your anger, What do you have to say about it.
>
>TURTLE

No anger here, Turtle, just speaking to 'em in their own language. I believe
that I had most of my say in the "Package Unit Wire/Amp" thread in alt.hvac.
and in the bleedover in a few other threads. But now that you bring it up,
there are a few more things on my mind. If PJM and his cronies are so adamant
about "homemoaners"(as HE and others call them) posting in alt.hvac, and seem
to enjoy the personal attacks on them, WHY is it that at least ONE of the
regulars over there can't find the time to post the FAQ so that homeowners know
not to post there? I also find it interesting that the very same people get
their bread buttered by hardworking homeowners find it necessary to refer to
the hand that feeds them, in a public forum of all places, as "homemoaners?

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 19, 2004, 12:27:27 PM7/19/04
to

"Volts500" <volt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040719055540...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> >Subject: Re: Wiring a 480V Single Phase Circuit
> >From: "PrecisionMachinisT" Precision...@hotmail.com
> >Date: 7/19/2004 1:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <2m135gF...@uni-berlin.de>
>
> >> This is Turtle.
> >>
> >> So After the voicing your anger, What do you have to say about it.
> >>
> >> TURTLE
> >>
> >
> >....LOL....
> >
> >Ole sparky0 here seems he aint got no clues as to why I would want to
call
> >him a Stoopid ASS........
> >
> >The topic was "Cleaning an evaporator coil".........
>
> Get your facts straight, if your gonna try to use it as a put down, ya
chump.
> It was bleed over from the "Package Unit Wire/Amp Rating" thread, you know
it.
> You know, where you found it necessary to check-in as a cluless moron
(along
> with many of the others in the alt.HVAC subgroup of alt.H(ack)VAC
> flex/fiberboard duct boys), just like you found it necessary to check-in
as a
> moron in _this_ thread.
>

"Bleedover" huh.....so you can do that but not me ???

>
> Here's YOUR clueless post :
>
> Message-id: <2le3idF...@uni-berlin.de>
>
> "You stoopid ass.
>
> The breaker size is dependant on the wire gage--and it is to protect the
> wire.......makes no differance if there never gets a load connected to it
at
> all, ever......
>
> Matters not if you connect a 100 amp load to a # 10 wire with a 30 amp
> breaker--sure it will trip the breaker, but the important thing is it will
> trip the breaker before the wire catches fire.
>

Find fault with the statement--remember, the intended load has not been
defined as of yet..........

>
> Bitting at my heels like a small dog, no wonder you got kicked, eh?
>
> >And only then is when called him a stoopid ass......
>
> Like I said, get the facts straight.
> Then you came into this NG and whined about name calling after displaying
more
> of your ignorance about electrical matters <snicker>....what a chump.
>

Chump must be a really serious insult where you are from........means little
to me though--do they let folks use computers in the joint???--just curious,
as I've heard certain things.........

==========

...................Okay, back to square one here...........................

I have 120/ 208v service, what is 277v single phase ???

Do I need a three phase service to operate a 480v single phase load ???

What is "single phase" ???

How many ways can it be produced ???

=========

What a fish........

Ya ever stop to consider you just *might* be taking these usenet
*discussions* a bit TOO seriously???

<G>

--

SVL

### Chris Lewis

Jul 19, 2004, 2:39:39 PM7/19/04
to
According to PrecisionMachinisT <Precision...@hotmail.com>:

>
> "Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
> news:2lrfncF...@uni-berlin.de...
> > According to PrecisionMachinisT <Precision...@hotmail.com>:

> > > Poor description--two phases ???

> > Not really. "Two phases from a 3 phase circuit" is a perfectly
> > reasonable way of saying it. Doesn't make the resulting circuit two
> > phase tho. It's single phase. Hint: if you were to scope one hot
> > relative to the other, it's still a simple sine wave.

> Yes, really....

> "Two phases from a three phase circuit" would better describe a circuit
> connected to a three phase supply through three wires but having no load
> across one of the phases.

"Two phases from a three phase circuit" is a single phase circuit. How
it's derived isn't really relevant at the point-of-use.

The confusion arises out of the word "phase".

Technically, "three phase" describes the circuit itself. When you "take
two phases" from a three phase circuit, "take two phases" is slang
for what would have been more clearly said as "taking two of the three hot
conductors".

> Hint: our shop has a single phase service at 400 amps, we buss 170 amps of
> this to generate our own three phase power via rotary transformer in order
> to supply the machinery.

What does that have to do with the situation at hand?

> At any rate, a better description IMO would have been something like " a
> two wire service, usually one phase of a three phase supply"

That's also correct, but doesn't imply (as perhaps it should) that the two
wires are hot wires. Not one of the hots and a neutral, for example.

### Chris Lewis

Jul 19, 2004, 2:46:22 PM7/19/04
to
According to Jake <jkel...@insightbb.com>:

> Dope growing is something I've heard these things are used for.... my
> brother's a police officer and has told me some of the stories on these
> nutty hookups.

Out of curiousity, I did a few google searches.

H'm. At least some commercial grade grow lamps run at 480V.

See, for example, the GLX series of fixtures:

http://www.poly-tex.com/pages/accessories/lighting.html

### Pop Rivet

Jul 19, 2004, 4:00:29 PM7/19/04
to
Do any of you guys realize what "phase" means? It's
not -just- the hot wire - there also has to be a phase
difference in the voltage in each wire to generate the
required voltage IFF it's more than a single-phase system.
480Vac single phase is pretty standard stuff in industry
as is showing up here.

Pop

"Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message

news:2m2j7uF...@uni-berlin.de...

Message has been deleted

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 21, 2004, 3:25:08 AM7/21/04
to

"Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:2m2irbF...@uni-berlin.de...
> According to PrecisionMachinisT <Precision...@hotmail.com>:

> >
>
> > "Two phases from a three phase circuit" would better describe a circuit
> > connected to a three phase supply through three wires but having no load
> > across one of the phases.
>
> "Two phases from a three phase circuit" is a single phase circuit. How
> it's derived isn't really relevant at the point-of-use.
>
> The confusion arises out of the word "phase".
>

Im not confused, someone else is confused about some apparent percieved
confusion--you just got caught in the crossfire is all.....

> Technically, "three phase" describes the circuit itself. When you "take
> two phases" from a three phase circuit, "take two phases" is slang
> for what would have been more clearly said as "taking two of the three hot
> conductors".
>
> > Hint: our shop has a single phase service at 400 amps, we buss 170 amps
of
> > this to generate our own three phase power via rotary transformer in
order
> > to supply the machinery.
>
> What does that have to do with the situation at hand?

Absolutely nothing, except to demonstrate you can generate OR pick a single
phase and generate three phases from it.

Notwithstanding, I *will* concede that at most any modern commercial power
plant, three phases are generated......sheesh....pertty sure theres
generally three syncronous alternators upon a common shaft electrically
linked via a wye connection.....

Hell, I'm a machinist, myself and many others like me actually make the
damned equipment.........

If I look closely I can see bits *I* actually made in these photos :

http://www.transmission.bpa.gov/PlanProj/Transmission_Projects/photos.cfm?page=SNO&pnum=06&Alt=SnoKing%20Substation

If Mr. Volts500 Sparkie0 dude can puff his chest and brag, then why cant *I*
?

>
> > At any rate, a better description IMO would have been something like "
a
> > two wire service, usually one phase of a three phase supply"
>
> That's also correct, but doesn't imply (as perhaps it should) that the two
> wires are hot wires. Not one of the hots and a neutral, for example.

Unless its corner grounded delta, or some other obscure and likely obsolete
transmission system, granted, no.

Point being, while it is one thing to have a specific service into a
facility, and then only purchase equipment that will easily integrate into
the existing plant electrical distribution, it is quite another to have the
knowledge and ability to interface equipment having different needs into an
existing system--480 v single phase can be easily supplied to most any
equipment.....pretty much regardless of the existing AC service, be it three
phase or single, so long as it is capable of handling the amperage draw of

Cheers,

--

SVL

### PrecisionMachinisT

Jul 21, 2004, 4:07:16 AM7/21/04
to
"Volts500" <volt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040719061308...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> not to post there? I also find it interesting that the very same people
get
> their bread buttered by hardworking homeowners find it necessary to refer
to
> the hand that feeds them, in a public forum of all places, as
"homemoaners?

Well, Im not Turtle, but......

But alt.havoc is like a big family there.

However dysfunctional you choose to view is up to you.

Remember, you are now a part of this extended Errrr "Family"................

--

SVL

Message has been deleted

### Greg Epperson

May 7, 2015, 4:44:05 PM5/7/15
to
replying to HA HA Budys Here, Greg Epperson wrote:
> hahabudyshere wrote:
>
> "Single phase" 480 is just like single phase 240 residential service, only
at a
> higher voltage. It's called single phase because the voltage is derived
from
a
> center tapped transformer fed from one single primary.
> I've never seen a single phase 480v service. 480 is commercial/industrial
in
> nature and it's generally supplied as 3 phases.

480 single phase is simply using 2 of the 3 hot legs. Phase to phase is
480, Phase to ground is 277vac which we use only for lighting.

--

### Dean Hoffman

May 7, 2015, 10:14:29 PM5/7/15
to
It's funny how these old threads pop up now and then.
But anyhow, single phase in my little world can be 480 line to line
and 480 line to ground. I think it's called corner ground delta.
Some rural utilities here in Nebraska use it to supply irrigation well
motors.
We run four wires from the service disconnect to the pump panel.
The neutral and equipment ground are connected in the meter. The
grounded leg isn't generally supposed to be fused.

### Dean Hoffman

May 8, 2015, 10:34:10 AM5/8/15
to
Oops. Dummy attack on my part. What I described above is one
version of 3Ã¸ 480. We also do have single phase 480 which is just
double normal household voltage. We add a phase converter to create 3Ã¸
480 to power irrigation systems.
Message has been deleted

### rricha04

Nov 20, 2016, 12:44:04 PM11/20/16
to
replying to Pop Rivet, rricha04 wrote:
How about a plasma cutter like Hypertherm Powermax 85
Input voltages:
CSA 200 â€“ 480 V, 1-PH, 50/60 Hz
200 â€“ 600 V, 3-PH, 50/60 Hz
CE 380/400 V, 3-PH, 50/60 Hz
Input Current @12.2 kW CSA 200/208/240/480 V, 1-PH, 70/68/58/29 A
200/208/240/480/600 V, 3-PH, 42/40/35/18/17 A
CE 380/400 V, 3-PH, 20.5/19.5 A
https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/hypertherm/powermax/powermax85/

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/wiring-a-480v-single-phase-circuit-538066-.htm

### William Ross

Dec 29, 2017, 5:14:06 PM12/29/17
to
replying to Joshua, William Ross wrote:
Looks like you bought an overseas appliance. This is why you need a
transformer when American and traveling abroad.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/wiring-a-480v-single-phase-circuit-538066-.htm

### William Ross

Dec 29, 2017, 5:14:07 PM12/29/17
to
replying to Pop Rivet, William Ross wrote:

### Uncle Monster

Dec 30, 2017, 12:32:47 AM12/30/17
to
On Friday, December 29, 2017 at 4:14:06 PM UTC-6, William Ross wrote:
> replying to Joshua, William Ross wrote:
> Looks like you bought an overseas appliance. This is why you need a
> transformer when American and traveling abroad.
> --
>

You're too late. 13 years ago, Joshua was abducted by giant outer space alien gerbils. The Air Force was unable to catch up with the flying saucer and Joshua has never been seen again. It's feared that the giant alien gerbils used him as a sex slave then ate him. It was a tragic loss. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Alien Monster

### Uncle Monster

Dec 30, 2017, 12:36:42 AM12/30/17
to
On Friday, December 29, 2017 at 4:14:07 PM UTC-6, William Ross wrote:
> replying to Pop Rivet, William Ross wrote:
> Truly made offshore!~
> --
>

You're too late again. 13 years ago Pop Rivet was a victim of a hit carried out by the Renovators Gang. His lifeless body was found pop-rivetted to his pickup truck. Another tragic event. 8-(

[8~{} Uncle Popped Monster

### Jr Frazier

Feb 21, 2018, 3:14:08 PM2/21/18
to
replying to TURTLE, Jr Frazier wrote:
I have a stratus aircond that goes in a electrial cab that came 480v 1 single
plase. I was think two legs of 480 hot but just wont to check .hate to blow up
2500.00 dollar aircon

### gfre...@aol.com

Feb 21, 2018, 9:40:56 PM2/21/18
to
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:14:03 GMT, Jr Frazier
<caedfaa9ed1216d60ef...@example.com> wrote:

>replying to TURTLE, Jr Frazier wrote:
>I have a stratus aircond that goes in a electrial cab that came 480v 1 single
>plase. I was think two legs of 480 hot but just wont to check .hate to blow up
>2500.00 dollar aircon

If it really says 480 1P then you do use two phase conductors of your
3P. If this was intended to be line to neutral it would be rated 277V,
pretty popular in lighting.

### macht...@gmail.com

May 1, 2019, 11:16:44 AM5/1/19
to
I have a bowl feeder that we recieved from China that is single phase 480. The control unit has a black and white wire with a ground. It's not difficult to find 480 single phase on your transformer. In this case a header machine. If your transformer doesn't have a legible diagram, just find your single phase 480 by checking between the legs on the transformer. If it's fed by 480V 3ph you should be able to find it. I'm not an electrician, just an industrial maintenance guy, but I've had to do this many times as China doesn't wire their machines like American or European manufacturers.

### gfre...@aol.com

May 1, 2019, 12:13:32 PM5/1/19
to
On Wed, 1 May 2019 08:16:39 -0700 (PDT), macht...@gmail.com wrote:

>I have a bowl feeder that we recieved from China that is single phase 480. The control unit has a black and white wire with a ground. It's not difficult to find 480 single phase on your transformer. In this case a header machine. If your transformer doesn't have a legible diagram, just find your single phase 480 by checking between the legs on the transformer. If it's fed by 480V 3ph you should be able to find it. I'm not an electrician, just an industrial maintenance guy, but I've had to do this many times as China doesn't wire their machines like American or European manufacturers.

On a 480/277 transformer you will be using 2 "hots". Typically they
will be the Brown, Orange and Yellow legs.
Gray will be the neutral.
The 277 circuits will be Violet and Gray by the normal convention
although it is not in the code.

### TimR

May 1, 2019, 2:51:58 PM5/1/19
to
I don't know what a bowl feeder is but if it has a motor, and you connect to 3P power, it will run backwards. You need to unhook it and reverse the legs. All my time in a factory I never saw that not happen.

### gfre...@aol.com

May 1, 2019, 3:08:35 PM5/1/19
to
On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:51:54 -0700 (PDT), TimR <timot...@aol.com>
wrote:
It was so common in the computer biz newer machines had a reversing
plug in the primary power tub that swapped 2 legs. If this is a single
phase motor it doesn't really make any difference tho. You are only
using 2 of the 3 phases.

### TimR

May 1, 2019, 4:25:31 PM5/1/19
to
Yeah I saw that but I wasn't sure I believed it was 1P.

I can guarantee at least one motor that will run backwards on 1P though: my drill, if you're next to me and ask to borrow it.

### me_elec...@yahoo.com

Jun 25, 2019, 11:22:56 PM6/25/19
to
Lol, i just wired some single phase 480v dope lights for a client.

### Justin Oliver

Aug 2, 2019, 10:44:11 PM8/2/19
to
replying to Joshua, Justin Oliver wrote:
You have a 3 phase service.not a 3 pole service but it is the same.your just
using 2 of your poles. The correct way to say that is 2 legs of the 3 phases
or poles. Two legs or poles is single phase when using equipment.

### Justin Oliver

Aug 2, 2019, 10:44:14 PM8/2/19
to
replying to gfretwell, Justin Oliver wrote:
Thay get the 3 phase motor going by raping a rope around the shaft and pulling
before starting or using a capacitor on a phase to make another phase then
drop that phase after full speed then dropping that phase. And at that phase
you dropped you will be getting 277 90 degree off of power companys sistem.
You can use that as another phase to make a 3 phase sistem

### Justin Oliver

Aug 2, 2019, 10:44:16 PM8/2/19
to
replying to TURTLE, Justin Oliver wrote:
It is probably a277 or a 480 volt single phase motor You can probably wire
those HVAC fan motor different ways.

### dexan...@gmail.com

May 15, 2020, 1:40:21 PM5/15/20
to
That's a great question and I'm glad you asked and paid enough attention to realize that it was single phase rather than terminating it 3 phase.for Single phase 480v just land the 2 hits and a ground. There is no such thing as a stupid question my friends

### Dean Hoffman

May 16, 2020, 12:51:12 PM5/16/20
to
On 5/15/20 12:40 PM, dexan...@gmail.com wrote:
> That's a great question and I'm glad you asked and paid enough attention to realize that it was single phase rather than terminating it 3 phase.for Single phase 480v just land the 2 hits and a ground. There is no such thing as a stupid question my friends
>
Why wouldn't you wire it similarly to 240 single phase?
Depending on where you're at in the circuit there should be four wires.
There would be an equipment ground and a neutral to handle the
unbalanced load, if any.
The equipment ground and the neutral meet in the meter or as close
as possible to it.
I can't see the original post.

### justin.ha...@gmail.com

Jun 6, 2020, 7:47:32 AM6/6/20
to
If I have a 240/480 volt dual voltage single phase motor connected by 2.5mm 2c+e to an isolator and then just 1mm flex coming out with active, neutral and earth connected is it possible the power supply to be 480v or is it most definitely 240v

### bruce2...@gmail.com

Jun 8, 2020, 9:39:48 AM6/8/20
to
> is no such thing as a stupid question my friends.

I assume you mean 2 "hots" which would be different phases (not hits) and then a third wire being a green ground connection (a total of three wires.

2 hots of the same phase would be like wiring-up switching devices where one wire is line and the other is load.

### cmassie

Aug 13, 2021, 10:45:08 AM8/13/21
to
I just received a call from a customer that is looking for 480, single phase. He is telling me it is a piece of test equipment.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/wiring-a-480v-single-phase-circuit-538066-.htm

### Bob F

Aug 13, 2021, 10:55:41 AM8/13/21
to
On 8/13/2021 7:45 AM, cmassie wrote:
> I just received a call from a customer that is looking for 480, single
> phase. He is telling me it is a piece of test equipment.
>

That's nice.

### Dean Hoffman

Aug 13, 2021, 11:02:31 AM8/13/21
to
Ok. Do you want advice? Approximate location? Incoming power is what now?

### bud--

Aug 13, 2021, 11:53:59 AM8/13/21
to
Good questions.

This is a new (unrelated) post on a 17 year old thread that has appeared
here at least twice before (years ago). (You appeared in one of them.)

The post is not even up to homemoaners quality. The OP should let
someone who know what they are doing handle whatever is supposed to happen.