WD-40 & Silicone Spray. When is one better over the other?
Holy Crikey
need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
come back only after a few days.
Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
other is better.
Is metal on metal contact for WD-40 and the silicone spray for
everything else? Please clarify. Thanks!
tn...@mucks.net
wrote:
WD-40 is not a lubricant. Silicone spray is excellent except you will
have great difficulty painting anything that has silicone residue on
it.
professorpaul
metal, loosening things up, etc., like a penetrating oil, but NO
long-term lubricant properties. For garage doors, etc., I use an SAE-80
gear oil, as it doesn't run as much, and pretty well stays where I put
it. The silicon lubricants are generally waterproof, but as the last
poster points out, they mess up the surface for painting, unless very
throughly cleaned. I use WD-40 for cleaning, but NOT lubricating
firearms, cleaning the rims of my bicycle wheels, and stuff like that.
I find that a pump oiler full of ordinary 10W30 motor oil really meets
the majority of lubricating needs around the house, plus the SAE-80
gear oil for stuff like the garage door pivots and the bearings on the
push lawnmower. A small grease gun is likewise handy to have around.
Tony Hwang
Silicon or Teflon based sparay. Never WD-40!
Ether Jones
The "WD" in WD40 stands for "Water Dispersant", which is what WD40
primarily is, not a lubricant. It's mostly kerosene with a small
percentage of other added petrochemicals.
Use a drop or 2 of light oil to penetrate between the moving surfaces,
and wipe clean so it doesn't attract dust.
larry moe 'n curly
Holy Crikey wrote:
> I have squeaking front and garage entrance door hinges in my house I
> need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
> loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
> come back only after a few days.
>
> Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
> thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
> other is better.
I've read that silicone oil can cause problems by being incompatible
with any oil already in the bearings, and it's better to use regular
light machine oil (5, 10, or 20 weight). Another person said that
sewing machine oil isn't good because it's vegetable oil (so it won't
stain clothes permanently). Only the bearings are supposed to be
lubed, not the nylon wheels or the tracks. If your door runs on pivot
hinges instead of tracks, then aerosol grease is supposed to be the
best. This grease is mixed with a liquid solvent that evaporates after
it's sprayed on, and auto parts stores should have it because it's used
for door hinges and latches.
I once had a squealing speedometer (metal cylinder spinning in nylon
hole). I cleaned the parts with degreaser and applied silicone oil --
still squealed. Cleaned again and tried WD-40 -- again no help.
Another cleaning and two drops of light machine oil -- no more squeaks,
ever again.
Noozer
"Holy Crikey" <do...@thinks.so.com> wrote in message
news:h7m8i2lcul1dhs8f6...@4ax.com...
Neither. Try oil.
WD40 is NOT a lubricant and silicone spray is not intended for metal.
Richard J Kinch
> Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
> thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
> other is better.
Don't be a sucker. "Silicone" spray, such as the Gunk brand you buy at
Home Depot or the auto parts store, is *not* silicone. It is a few drops
of silicone oil in a bulk of petroleum distillate, which is to say, not
significantly different from WD-40. Read the label or MSDS, and you'll
find that silicone is the last ingredient on the list. Actual silicone oil
is expensive, so you won't find it in a big can for a few bucks.
Here is an example:
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=7007009
Richard J Kinch
> The "WD" in WD40 stands for "Water Dispersant", which is what WD40
> primarily is, not a lubricant.
It says "lubricates" on the can.
Richard J Kinch
> have great difficulty painting anything that has silicone residue on
> it.
WD-40 says "lubricates" on the can.
Gunk and similar brands of "silicone" spray are just WD-40 with a few drops
of silicone oil for laughs. Odd that you think it is "excellent" but WD-40
is not.
George E. Cawthon
The simplest and maybe the best solution is to
clean the hinge with WD40 and then oil it with any
any 20 or 30 weight oil. The most thorough way is
to pop each pin up until each pin engages only one
loop on the frame half of the hinge and one loop
on the door half of the hinge is engaged by the
pin. Then put oil on a Q-tip and push it up
through the hinge loops and all over the exposed
pin. Then just pound the pin down into place.
If you cannot or are afraid of popping the pins
up, then put oil at each loop, swing the door, add
more oil, wipe most off, and after two days the
oil should have seeped to all hinge surfaces.
Throughly clean (wipe) any oil off the hinges.
Graphite in oil (Lock-ease) also works very well.
Jim Yanik
news:Xns9852F381861...@216.196.97.131:
But does NOT say for -how long-.
K-Y jelly lubricates,too. ;-P
WD-40 has a tendency to gum up after awhile.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
tn...@mucks.net
Silicone is just for laughs? Water can be a lubricant also but I doubt
it would be your first choice.
tn...@mucks.net
I take it you've never played foosball.
tn...@mucks.net
>
>WD40 is NOT a lubricant and silicone spray is not intended for metal.
Silicone oil is intended for metal and vinyl and leather and rubber
and plastic and wood.
Doug Miller
>I have squeaking front and garage entrance door hinges in my house I
>need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
>loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
>come back only after a few days.
That should be your first clue that WD-40 is the wrong thing to use. It's a
poor lubricant.
>
>Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
>thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
>other is better.
You should use neither. A few drops of 3-in-1 Oil (available at any hardware
store or home center) on each of the squeaky hinges will take care of the
problem.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Stubby
http://www.wd40.com . The site does not label the product as a
"lubricant" or "water drier". But it does suggest applications such as
removing spots, etc.
Doug Miller
>It turns out WD40 company also makes 3-in-1 oil.
So what??
ds...@webtv.net
install the pin. lucas
Craven Morehead
"Stubby" <William.Plu...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:u7mdnd7AirxEarnY...@comcast.com...
Ether Jones
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> Gunk and similar brands of "silicone" spray are just WD-40 with a few drops
> of silicone oil for laughs.
Who told you this? They were having fun at your expense.
WD40 is mostly kerosene. There is NO kerosene in any of the major
brands of silicone spray. WD40 and silicone spray are completely
different chemical formulations.
Doug Miller
ki...@truetex.com says...
>
> Don't be a sucker. "Silicone" spray, such as the Gunk brand you buy at
> Home Depot or the auto parts store, is *not* silicone. It is a few drops
> of silicone oil in a bulk of petroleum distillate, which is to say, not
> significantly different from WD-40.
You appear unaware that there are thousands of different compounds which
can be distilled from petroleum, and *all* of them can be referred to as
"petroleum distillate". Educate yourself here
http://www.protectall.com/artmyths.htm
where you can learn about the many different chemicals that fall under
the generic heading "petroleum distillate"
and here
http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_aerosol.us.pdf
where the MSDS for WD-40 shows that its composition isn't even remotely
similar to that of Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant.
> Read the label or MSDS, and you'll
> find that silicone is the last ingredient on the list.
Copied verbatim from the back of a can of Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant,
p/n AMS9-14, that I have in my garage:
"Contains petroleum distillate (CAS# 142-82-5), propane (CAS# 74-98-6),
Dimethyl polysiloxane (CAS# 63148-98-6), and water (CAS# 7732-18-5)."
Doesn't look to me like silicone is "the last ingredient on the list."
Maybe it does to you.
>Actual silicone oil
> is expensive, so you won't find it in a big can for a few bucks.
>
> Here is an example:
>
> http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=7007009
From the fifth line under "Brand Information":
"Date Entered: 1996-09-03"
Do ya think that might be just a little bit out of date, that the
formula might have changed some in the last TEN YEARS??
>
Stubby
z
WD-40 will evaporate after a while. Better bet for longterm is
something like motorcycle or bicycle chainlube, which is like WD40 with
molybdenum in it, or some of the lock lube liquids, which are like WD40
with graphite. Frankly, for something as delicate and refined as a door
hinge, you can use crappy old 3-in-1 or probably Crisco.
z
Doug Miller wrote:
> Copied verbatim from the back of a can of Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant,
> p/n AMS9-14, that I have in my garage:
>
> "Contains petroleum distillate (CAS# 142-82-5), propane (CAS# 74-98-6),
> Dimethyl polysiloxane (CAS# 63148-98-6), and water (CAS# 7732-18-5)."
Water? Now that is what is a surprise to me.
z
Jim Yanik wrote:
> WD-40 has a tendency to gum up after awhile.
I respectfully disagree. It has a tendency to disappear, and I suppose
leave any dust and cat fur it's picked up left behind as a gummy mess,
but that's about it.
JJ
The best solution I ever found was a lubricant that the local garage door
installer sold me. Depends if your climate is an issue but where I am, this
stuff stayed pliable to temps 20 degrees below zero. Sorry don't remember
the name, but it was sold in a small squeeze tube, small application in each
hinge did the trick for years.
>
tn...@mucks.net
>The best solution I ever found was a lubricant that the local garage door
>installer sold me. Depends if your climate is an issue but where I am, this
>stuff stayed pliable to temps 20 degrees below zero. Sorry don't remember
>the name, but it was sold in a small squeeze tube, small application in each
>hinge did the trick for years.
This grease is compatible with plastics
-zero
> need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
> loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
> come back only after a few days.
This is what you want. Regular White lithium grease (tube/spray) is fine
also.
Don't buy it at Amazon, it's at any hardware store, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Lithium-Grease-Fluoropolymer-Aerosol/dp/B00030BFF6
-zero
glenn P
grease, and it works well also. I think maybe his hinges are captive pin,
negating our answers.
WD40 "toolbox in a can"? I don't think so.....
<ds...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:57-4524F...@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
Tom The Great
wrote:
>I have squeaking front and garage entrance door hinges in my house I
>need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
>loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
>come back only after a few days.
>
>Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
>thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
>other is better.
>
>Is metal on metal contact for WD-40 and the silicone spray for
>everything else? Please clarify. Thanks!
I use WD-40 for cleaning. That's all.
I use silicon for applying a fine layer of lube over a larger area.
As for garage door hinges, and pins, a few drops of light machinery
oil lubes and adhearse to the surfaces I want to keep lubed.
This is me, I generally give my garage door a yearly cleaning and
lubing.
imho,
tom @ www.MyFastCoolCars.com
Richard J Kinch
> WD-40 shows that its composition isn't even remotely
> similar to that of Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant.
Actually, it is. Industrial chemists use various nomenclatures for the
same things, in an attempt to obscure what's going on.
Richard J Kinch
> Doesn't look to me like silicone is "the last ingredient on the list."
> Maybe it does to you.
No water on the can on my shelf, or in the MSDS. Having found a pointless
counterexample, you win the prissy exception contest.
Richard J Kinch
> WD40 is mostly kerosene. There is NO kerosene in any of the major
> brands of silicone spray. WD40 and silicone spray are completely
> different chemical formulations.
Nope. Read the Gunk brand can or MSDS linked in my earlier posts. Gunk
"silicone" spray is 99 percent petroleum, roughly kerosene weight, with a
tiny bit of silicone oil.
Richard J Kinch
Exactly. It deliberately corresponds to the first of three grades of mil
spec corrosion inhibitors, those three roughly being tackless, waxy, and
gummy/tacky.
larry moe 'n curly
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> Don't be a sucker. "Silicone" spray, such as the Gunk brand you buy at
> Home Depot or the auto parts store, is *not* silicone. It is a few drops
> of silicone oil in a bulk of petroleum distillate, which is to say, not
> significantly different from WD-40. Read the label or MSDS, and you'll
> find that silicone is the last ingredient on the list. Actual silicone oil
> is expensive, so you won't find it in a big can for a few bucks.
>
> Here is an example:
>
> http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=7007009
But here's another MSDS, for Valvoline's Pyroil brand silicone lube
spray:
It lists:
Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by
weight)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEPTANE 142-82-5 87.0-
97.0
CARBON DIOXIDE 124-38-9 0.0-
10.0
SILICONE Trade Secret 0.0-
8.0
IOW it appears that there's nothing in the can except propellant and
some silicone compound.
Doug Miller
>Ether Jones writes:
>
>> WD40 is mostly kerosene. There is NO kerosene in any of the major
>> brands of silicone spray. WD40 and silicone spray are completely
>> different chemical formulations.
>
>Nope. Read the Gunk brand can
Maybe *you* should read it before you post further on this topic. I did, and
posted what I found. The contents are not what you claim they are.
>or MSDS linked in my earlier posts.
The MSDS you linked is more than ten years old, and is not from the
manufacturer. Here's a recent (21 Mar 2005) MSDS from the manufacturer:
http://www.gunk.com/msds/AM914_6.PDF
> Gunk
>"silicone" spray is 99 percent petroleum, roughly kerosene weight, with a
>tiny bit of silicone oil.
Wrong on all counts.
-zero
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns985339467B...@129.250.170.85...
>
> K-Y jelly lubricates,too. ;-P
> WD-40 has a tendency to gum up after awhile.
Well MOST people draw the line at margarine, you kinky bastard! ;o)
-zero
Jim Yanik
news:wbvVg.3943$YO....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
It's your own dirty mind that led you to that conclusion. 8-)
Soybean cooking oil would be a better lubricant for *mechanical things*
than WD-40.(castor bean oil used to be used in autos!)
So would kerosene.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Richard J Kinch
> IOW it appears that there's nothing in the can except propellant and
> some silicone compound.
It's 87 percent heptane, which is a petroleum distillate. The CO2 is the
propellant.
Richard J Kinch
> Maybe *you* should read it before you post further on this topic. I
> did, and posted what I found. The contents are not what you claim they
> are.
Sorry, but that's what's on the can on my shelf.
Doug Miller
Either the can you have is as old as the MDSD you posted the link to, or you
need to look at the can again. The composition of the stuff now simply is not
what you say it is.
mm
> i use anti seize on hinge pins.
The only anit-seize I know is for keeping soldering iron tips from
sticking to the soldering iron, and maybe to keep sparkplugs from
sticking in their sockets. Etc. Thing related to heat.
Is that what you use or is there something else I don't konw about?
Richard J Kinch
> The composition of the stuff now simply is not what you say it is.
Sez you. Reality doesn't correspond to your petulant annoyance.
Here are Gunk MSDSs from 2005 or 2006:
http://www.gunk.com/msds/M914.PDF
http://www.gunk.com/msds/M914_6.PDF
http://www.gunk.com/msds/M949.PDF
http://www.gunk.com/msds/AM914_6.PDF
Looks like they may have upped the silicone from 1-2 percent to 6-7
percent. Still 93 percent petroleum/propellant/surfactant, like WD-40.
It is: paint thinner with a little silicone added.
It is not: silicone spray in the sense of a spray made of silicone.
Kind of like calling Mountain Dew "fruit juice" because it has some fruit
flavoring.
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller writes:
>
>> The composition of the stuff now simply is not what you say it is.
>
>Sez you. Reality doesn't correspond to your petulant annoyance.
Yes, "sez me." The reality is exactly as I said: the stuff just isn't what you
say it is.
>
>Here are Gunk MSDSs from 2005 or 2006:
>
>http://www.gunk.com/msds/M914.PDF
>http://www.gunk.com/msds/M914_6.PDF
>http://www.gunk.com/msds/M949.PDF
>http://www.gunk.com/msds/AM914_6.PDF
Yes, I know, I read them. I posted that last one, remember?
>
>Looks like they may have upped the silicone from 1-2 percent to 6-7
>percent. Still 93 percent petroleum/propellant/surfactant, like WD-40.
Take a look at the MSDS for WD-40. Compare the two.
Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant #AM914 is, according to the MSDS:
aliphatic solvent naphtha 15 to 40%
butane 10 to 30 %
dimethyl polysiloxane 1 to 5%
propane 1 to 5%
WD40 is, according to the MSDS,
Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates 45-50%
Petroleum Base Oil 15-25%
LVP Hydrocarbon Fluid 12-18%
Carbon Dioxide 2-3%
>
>It is: paint thinner with a little silicone added.
It is not.
From the MSDS for Parks paint thinner (a brand widely sold at home centers):
Stoddard Solvent (percentage not given)
1,2,4-trimethyl benzene (percentage not given)
http://www.newparks.com/PDF/MSDS/SOLVENTS/PaintThinner.
pdf#search=%22parks%20%22paint%20thinner%22%20msds%22
>
>It is not: silicone spray in the sense of a spray made of silicone.
Straw man -- nobody ever claimed that it was.
>
>Kind of like calling Mountain Dew "fruit juice" because it has some fruit
>flavoring.
And now I suppose you're going to argue with Sherwin-Williams for calling
their products "latex paint" when they're mostly water?
Richard J Kinch
>>It is: paint thinner with a little silicone added.
> It is not ... From the MSDS for Parks paint thinner ...
OK, your analysis is, Stoddard solvent is not an aliphatic petroleum
distillate. Let's leave it at that.
Doug Miller
It's not.
You might want to Google on "Stoddard solvent" to find out what it really is,
since you appear to be totally ignorant of its composition. It *contains*
aliphatic petroleum distillates, but its composition is more than half
NON-aliphatic.
Now stop, before you make yourself look even sillier than you already have.
Richard J Kinch
> You might want to Google on "Stoddard solvent" to find out what it
> really is, since you appear to be totally ignorant of its composition.
> It *contains* aliphatic petroleum distillates, but its composition is
> more than half NON-aliphatic.
My total ignorance cannot possibly win against such diligent Googling. I
eagerly await your rewrite of organic chemistry.
Father Haskell
> I have squeaking front and garage entrance door hinges in my house I
> need to spray with lubrication during the winter because it gets so
> loud. I used WD-40 a couple of times, but the irritating noise would
> come back only after a few days.
>
> Someone told me to give silicone spray a try, so I might do that, but
> thought I'd pose a question in here to learn when using one over the
> other is better.
>
> Is metal on metal contact for WD-40 and the silicone spray for
> everything else? Please clarify. Thanks!
Use a petrol-based machine oil, like bike lube. Don't use 3-in-1,
since it's a vegetable-based oil and oxidizes into varnish.
White lithium grease is better than oil.
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller writes:
>
>> You might want to Google on "Stoddard solvent" to find out what it
>> really is, since you appear to be totally ignorant of its composition.
>> It *contains* aliphatic petroleum distillates, but its composition is
>> more than half NON-aliphatic.
>
>My total ignorance cannot possibly win against such diligent Googling.
"aliphatic petroleum distillate". I suggested Google because I figured it was
the easiest way for *you* to learn what it is, as it appears rather unlikely,
on the basis of this and earlier posts, that your household includes any
chemistry textbooks.
>I eagerly await your rewrite of organic chemistry.
In other words... you really *don't* know what it is, and refuse to learn. :-)
Let's summarize here, shall we?
You claimed that Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant is basically nothing more than
WD-40 with a few drops of silicone added.
Wrong, as I demonstrated by posting the composition of each.
You also claimed that it's basically nothing more than paint thinner with a
little bit of silicone.
Wrong again, as I demonstrated by posting the composition of a common brand of
paint thinner.
Your basis for those claims is the fact that the principal ingredient in all
three is petroleum distillate; you seem to be under the impression that this
is a single compound, rather than a generic term that encompasses thousands
(if not millions) of widely different compounds that often have nothing more
in common than their origin in petroleum.
Then you suggest that I'm trying to rewrite organic chemistry!!
I'd also like to remind the readers, if there are any left at this point, that
Richard has in the past claimed that gasoline is safe to drink, and carbon
monoxide is safe to breathe -- but common household borax is a deadly
poison.
Richard J Kinch
nomenclature.
Doug Miller writes:
> I'd also like to remind the readers, if there are any left at this
> point, that Richard has in the past claimed that gasoline is safe to
> drink ...
What a sad and pathetic attitude you have.
Doug Miller
>Your "demonstrations" consist of finding differences in ingredients and
>nomenclature.
That was kind of the point, you know -- that having different ingredients
means they're NOT THE SAME. I'm not sure why that's difficult for you.
As for "differences in ... nomenclature", do you seriously contend that
Stoddard solvent and the aliphatic solvent naphtha which is the principal
constituent of Gunk Silicone Spray Lube are merely the same thing under
different names?
If so ... I'd love to see the explanation of *that*.
If not ... please clarify what you meant.
>Doug Miller writes:
>
>> I'd also like to remind the readers, if there are any left at this
>> point, that Richard has in the past claimed that gasoline is safe to
>> drink, and carbon monoxide is safe to breathe -- but common household borax
>> is a deadly poison.
>
>What a sad and pathetic attitude you have.
What a sad and pathetic "understanding" of chemistry *you* have. And you
*have* made those claims.
As for my "attitude", I find it entertaining to puncture pretentious gasbags
and watch them sputter. Thank you for being a continuing source of amusement,
not only to myself but to others as well.
Father Haskell
Charlie Morgan wrote:
Not according to the several bike repair manuals I've read. Oils
come in two flavors, drying and non-drying. Drying types, made
from plants, are what varnishes are made from, with the addition
of resins to add body.
The current best lubricating oils are made from Pennsylvania crude.
The previous best was spermacetti, from whales, which you
rightfully can't get anymore.
Richard J Kinch
> I find it entertaining to puncture pretentious gasbags
> and watch them sputter.
That explains a lot. You take pride and pleasure in the humiliation of
others. Gasbags you deem fair game, unworthy of civility. You are
profoundly lonely, such a skunky personality being repulsive, except to
other skunks.
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller writes:
>
>> I find it entertaining to puncture pretentious gasbags
>> and watch them sputter.
>
>That explains a lot. You take pride and pleasure in the humiliation of
>others.
That's not what I said.
And I notice that you failed to address *any* of the substantive points I
raised. I wonder why that is...
I've demonstrated that you were completely wrong on every count. And now all
you can do is complain about my tone.
So be it.
> Gasbags you deem fair game, unworthy of civility.
*Pretentious* gasbags. And I haven't been uncivil to you. Sarcastic, perhaps,
but not uncivil.
> You are
>profoundly lonely, such a skunky personality being repulsive, except to
>other skunks.
Anyone else hear the sound of a punctured gasbag sputtering?
Doug Miller
>
>Charlie Morgan wrote:
>> On 8 Oct 2006 15:21:13 -0700, "Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> >Use a petrol-based machine oil, like bike lube. Don't use 3-in-1,
>> >since it's a vegetable-based oil and oxidizes into varnish.
>>
>> ??? You're kidding, right?
>
>Not according to the several bike repair manuals I've read. Oils
>come in two flavors, drying and non-drying. Drying types, made
>from plants, are what varnishes are made from, with the addition
>of resins to add body.
Wow. So many errors in just two paragraphs.
First off, *no* oil "oxidizes into varnish". Varnish, as you said, contains
resin. The oxidation process doesn't magically cause resin to appear if it
wasn't there before.
Second, varnish isn't just oil plus resin: it needs a solvent or vehicle as
well.
Third, you imply that all vegetable oils are drying oils, when in fact many,
if not most, vegetable oils are non-drying.
Finally, the claim that 3-in-1 oil is "vegetable-based" is simply absurd, and
is, I suspect, what triggered the "??? You're kidding, right?" remark. Just
look at the label on a can of it: "Contains petroleum distillates." Or read
the MSDS here: http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-3in1_multipurpose.us.pdf
Sherlock Holmes
ki...@truetex.com says...
> Doug Miller writes:
>
> > I find it entertaining to puncture pretentious gasbags
> > and watch them sputter.
>
> That explains a lot. You take pride and pleasure in the humiliation of
> others.
Your humiliation is a self-inflicted wound.
Doug Miller
ki...@truetex.com says...
contrary, the stuff *is* significantly different from WD-40.
Doug Miller
> > WD-40 shows that its composition isn't even remotely
> > similar to that of Gunk Silicone Spray Lubricant.
>
> Actually, it is. Industrial chemists use various nomenclatures for the
> same things, in an attempt to obscure what's going on.
>
Actually, it isn't. The nomenclatures are different because they're
describing -- gasp -- different substances.
Doug Miller
> > Doesn't look to me like silicone is "the last ingredient on the list."
> > Maybe it does to you.
>
> No water on the can on my shelf, or in the MSDS. Having found a pointless
> counterexample, you win the prissy exception contest.
>
Oh, I get it -- any example that proves you wrong is "pointless".
Face it, Kinch: you're wrong (again).
Al Bundy
news:MPG.1f940c4c9...@127.0.0.1:
You ain't the Doug Miller from Nebraska that worked in VT by chance?
Father Haskell
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <1160370642.7...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Charlie Morgan wrote:
> >> On 8 Oct 2006 15:21:13 -0700, "Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Use a petrol-based machine oil, like bike lube. Don't use 3-in-1,
> >> >since it's a vegetable-based oil and oxidizes into varnish.
> >>
> >> ??? You're kidding, right?
> >
> >Not according to the several bike repair manuals I've read. Oils
> >come in two flavors, drying and non-drying. Drying types, made
> >from plants, are what varnishes are made from, with the addition
> >of resins to add body.
>
> Wow. So many errors in just two paragraphs.
>
> First off, *no* oil "oxidizes into varnish". Varnish, as you said, contains
> resin. The oxidation process doesn't magically cause resin to appear if it
> wasn't there before.
>
> Second, varnish isn't just oil plus resin: it needs a solvent or vehicle as
> well.
"Varnish," meaning a dried coating of gunk that jams up fine, precision
machinery, like Sturmey-Archer 5-speed hubs. Not "varnish" enough
that I'd use it to refinish a piano.
> Third, you imply that all vegetable oils are drying oils, when in fact many,
> if not most, vegetable oils are non-drying.
Linseed, tung, etc.
> Finally, the claim that 3-in-1 oil is "vegetable-based" is simply absurd,
Not according to the bike manuals.
> and
> is, I suspect, what triggered the "??? You're kidding, right?" remark. Just
> look at the label on a can of it: "Contains petroleum distillates." Or read
> the MSDS here: http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-3in1_multipurpose.us.pdf
If so, I'll gladly reconsider.
Doug Miller
Nope. I'm in Indianapolis. Been here for a looooong time.
Doug Miller
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <1160370642.7...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Father
> Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Charlie Morgan wrote:
>> >> On 8 Oct 2006 15:21:13 -0700, "Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Use a petrol-based machine oil, like bike lube. Don't use 3-in-1,
>> >> >since it's a vegetable-based oil and oxidizes into varnish.
>> >>
>> >> ??? You're kidding, right?
>> >
>> >Not according to the several bike repair manuals I've read. Oils
>> >come in two flavors, drying and non-drying. Drying types, made
>> >from plants, are what varnishes are made from, with the addition
>> >of resins to add body.
>>
>> Wow. So many errors in just two paragraphs.
>>
>> First off, *no* oil "oxidizes into varnish". Varnish, as you said, contains
>> resin. The oxidation process doesn't magically cause resin to appear if it
>> wasn't there before.
>>
>> Second, varnish isn't just oil plus resin: it needs a solvent or vehicle as
>> well.
>
>"Varnish," meaning a dried coating of gunk that jams up fine, precision
>machinery, like Sturmey-Archer 5-speed hubs. Not "varnish" enough
>that I'd use it to refinish a piano.
Varnish has two meanings, and, yes, that's one of them -- but you were
*clearly* using the other meaning when you described varnish as a blend of oil
and resin.
>
>> Third, you imply that all vegetable oils are drying oils, when in fact many,
>> if not most, vegetable oils are non-drying.
>
>Linseed, tung, etc.
Yes, some *are* drying oils, as I clearly acknowledged -- but most are not,
e.g. corn, soybean, canola, etc.
>
>> Finally, the claim that 3-in-1 oil is "vegetable-based" is simply absurd,
>
>Not according to the bike manuals.
Then your bike manuals are wrong. Which do you suppose is a better source for
the composition of 3-in-1 oil, some bike manual, or the manufacturer of 3-in-1
oil?
>
>> and
>> is, I suspect, what triggered the "??? You're kidding, right?" remark. Just
>> look at the label on a can of it: "Contains petroleum distillates." Or read
>> the MSDS here: http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-3in1_multipurpose.us.pdf
>
>If so, I'll gladly reconsider.
Don't just take my word for it -- go to wd40.com and read the MSDS for
yourself. Go to a hardware store and read the label on the can. 3-in-1 oil is
a petroleum oil. It is NOT vegetable-based.
Ether Jones
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> larry moe 'n curly writes:
>
> > IOW it appears that there's nothing in the can except propellant and
> > some silicone compound.
>
> It's 87 percent heptane, which is a petroleum distillate. The CO2 is the
> propellant.
Yes, CO2 is the propellant. But the Heptane is just a solvent to help
thin the silicone and allow it to penetrate. It evaporates rapidly,
once it's out of the can, leaving the silicone lubricant evenly
dispersed.
Ether Jones
Tom The Great wrote:
> I use silicon for applying a fine layer of lube over a larger area.
silicon and silicone are two completely different things.
Al Bundy
news:b%KWg.13133$6S3....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
> In article <Xns9857E0E0...@216.196.97.142>, Al Bundy
> <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>Doug Miller <spam...@milmac.com> wrote in
>>news:MPG.1f940c4c9...@127.0.0.1:
>>
>>> In article <Xns9854D7908F4...@216.196.97.131>,
>>> ki...@truetex.com says...
>>>> larry moe 'n curly writes:
>>>>
>>>> > IOW it appears that there's nothing in the can except propellant
>>>> > and some silicone compound.
>>>>
>>>> It's 87 percent heptane, which is a petroleum distillate. The CO2
>>>> is the propellant.
>>>>
>>> That does not change the fact that, despite your silly claims to the
>>> contrary, the stuff *is* significantly different from WD-40.
>>
>>
>>You ain't the Doug Miller from Nebraska that worked in VT by chance?
>
> Nope. I'm in Indianapolis. Been here for a looooong time.
>
Just took a shot at it. Nothing belittling meant but "Doug" and "Miller"
are not exactly rare :-)
Richard J Kinch
>>Linseed, tung, etc.
>
> Yes, some *are* drying oils, as I clearly acknowledged -- but most are
> not, e.g. corn, soybean, canola, etc.
Of your examples, only canola is non-drying.
Corn (maize), soybean, safflower, sunflower, and some other vegetable oils
are semi-drying and do find use in paints. This is why they get gummy on
the outside of the bottle.
Drying vs non-drying is not a neat distinction. All of the above consist
of the same 5 fatty acids, just in different proportions. Two of those
five fatty acids are polyunsaturated and contribute drying properties. Raw
linseed oil typically contains 30 percent non-drying fatty acids: palmitic,
stearic, and oleic. Same constituents as found in beef or pork fat.
Ether Jones
Father Haskell wrote:
> The current best lubricating oils are made from Pennsylvania crude.
Depends on your definition of "best". For my cars, full synthetic oils
have proven to be "best".
Father Haskell
> Then your bike manuals are wrong. Which do you suppose is a better source for
> the composition of 3-in-1 oil, some bike manual, or the manufacturer of 3-in-1
> oil?
Or the mechanic who has to rebuild a hub after it's been gunked up by
3-in-1.
Doug Miller
lubricating a bicycle -- I'm just saying that it's NOT a vegetable oil. The
ingredients statement on the product package says it's petroleum. The
manufacturer's MSDS says it's petroleum.
You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
Your bike manual is wrong.
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller writes:
>
>>>Linseed, tung, etc.
>>
>> Yes, some *are* drying oils, as I clearly acknowledged -- but most are
>> not, e.g. corn, soybean, canola, etc.
>
>Of your examples, only canola is non-drying.
I didn't say that any of them were non-drying -- I said they are not drying,
which encompasses non-drying *and* semi-drying. As you say...
>
>Drying vs non-drying is not a neat distinction.
I was responding to a post that implied that "vegetable oil" and "drying oil"
were equivalent, which is absolutely not the case.
Father Haskell
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <1160506476.7...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, "Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >
> >> Then your bike manuals are wrong. Which do you suppose is a better source for
> >> the composition of 3-in-1 oil, some bike manual, or the manufacturer of
> > 3-in-1
> >> oil?
> >
> >Or the mechanic who has to rebuild a hub after it's been gunked up by
> >3-in-1.
> >
> I'm not debating whether 3-in-1 is, or is not, an appropriate product for
> lubricating a bicycle -- I'm just saying that it's NOT a vegetable oil. The
> ingredients statement on the product package says it's petroleum. The
> manufacturer's MSDS says it's petroleum.
>
> You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
I have a bike manual that says it gums up freehubs.
> Your bike manual is wrong.
I've taken down freehubs and seen the claimed effect for myself.
Tom The Great
wrote:
>
>Tom The Great wrote:
>
>> I use silicon for applying a fine layer of lube over a larger area.
>
>silicon and silicone are two completely different things.
Ah thx, for the spelling assist. :D
tom
Ether Jones
Father Haskell wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
> > You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
>
> I have a bike manual that says it gums up freehubs.
You said in an earlier post that you had a bike manual that said 3-in-1
oil is vegetable-based. That claim is what Doug is contesting.
> > Your bike manual is wrong.
>
> I've taken down freehubs and seen the claimed effect for myself.
When Doug wrote "Your bike manual is wrong", he was referring to your
claim that the bike manual said 3-in-1 oil is vegetable-based. He
took no position on whether or not it gunks up hubs.
Doug Miller
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <1160506476.7...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, "Father
> Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Doug Miller wrote:
>> >
>> >> Then your bike manuals are wrong. Which do you suppose is a better source
> for
>> >> the composition of 3-in-1 oil, some bike manual, or the manufacturer of
>> > 3-in-1
>> >> oil?
>> >
>> >Or the mechanic who has to rebuild a hub after it's been gunked up by
>> >3-in-1.
>> >
>> I'm not debating whether 3-in-1 is, or is not, an appropriate product for
>> lubricating a bicycle -- I'm just saying that it's NOT a vegetable oil. The
>> ingredients statement on the product package says it's petroleum. The
>> manufacturer's MSDS says it's petroleum.
>>
>> You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
>
>I have a bike manual that says it gums up freehubs.
You said earlier that your bike manual said that 3-in-1 is a vegetable oil.
*That* is what I was referring to when I said this:
>> Your bike manual is wrong.
>
>I've taken down freehubs and seen the claimed effect for myself.
>
I never said anything about what it did, or didn't, do to freehubs or any
other part of a bicycle. I said it's not a vegetable oil, it's a petroleum
oil.
Father Haskell
Doesn't much matter what it's made of. It fouls up delicate
machinery. Italian bike component manufacturer Campagnolo
claims that their tolerances and finish exceed aerospace grade.
Read that as saying bike shops are probably the best place to
buy lubricating oils.
3-in-1 is good for door hinges. Good also for jamming locks
with less risk of raising suspicion than super glue.
Doug Miller
>
>Ether Jones wrote:
>> Father Haskell wrote:
>>
>> > Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> > > You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
>> >
>> > I have a bike manual that says it gums up freehubs.
>>
>>
>> You said in an earlier post that you had a bike manual that said 3-in-1
>> oil is vegetable-based. That claim is what Doug is contesting.
>>
>>
>> > > Your bike manual is wrong.
>> >
>> > I've taken down freehubs and seen the claimed effect for myself.
>>
>> When Doug wrote "Your bike manual is wrong", he was referring to your
>> claim that the bike manual said 3-in-1 oil is vegetable-based. He
>> took no position on whether or not it gunks up hubs.
>
>Doesn't much matter what it's made of. It fouls up delicate
>machinery.
The original post asked what lubricant to use on a door hinge!! What it may do
to delicate machinery is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
And it's *not* vegetable oil, no matter what your bike manual says.
Ether Jones
Father Haskell wrote:
> Ether Jones wrote:
> > Father Haskell wrote:
> >
> > > Doug Miller wrote:
> >
> > > > You have a bike manual that says it's vegetable.
> > >
> > > I have a bike manual that says it gums up freehubs.
> >
> >
> > You said in an earlier post that you had a bike manual that said 3-in-1
> > oil is vegetable-based. That claim is what Doug is contesting.
> >
> >
> > > > Your bike manual is wrong.
> > >
> > > I've taken down freehubs and seen the claimed effect for myself.
> >
> > When Doug wrote "Your bike manual is wrong", he was referring to your
> > claim that the bike manual said 3-in-1 oil is vegetable-based. He
> > took no position on whether or not it gunks up hubs.
>
> Doesn't much matter what it's made of.
It matters that we correct the false information that you posted, to
wit, your claim that it is made of vegetable oil.
Tony Hwang
> Ether Jones writes:
>
>
>>The "WD" in WD40 stands for "Water Dispersant", which is what WD40
>>primarily is, not a lubricant.
>
>
> It says "lubricates" on the can.
Hmmm,
For a while until it dries up and induce rust and what not.
WD-40 is not lubricant, it is water repellent/solvent. It makes
metal bare. water drops will lubricate for a while as well.
Father Haskell
> Most bike mechanics are folks who are on a waiting list to advance to employment
> at Walmart. They aren't usually people who could make it doing much else.
>
> CWM
Fascinating stuff. Enjoy:
http://www.ihpva.org/
eiger3970
eiger3970 wrote:
My first post on here.
What a fascinating, lengthy discussion about WD40 and silicon spray. I'm quite amazed and had to
respond.
I'm still confused and all I want to do is lubricate my driver's seat belt which sticks, rather than
winding itself back in?
My Toyota Corolla Ascent 2003 local wreckers people suggested silicon spray which is a first for
me.
My dad always said to use WD-40, but that was in the stone age before access to a world
knowledge base.
I would really like a definitive list comparison of points.
If/when I have time I'll make it up, but for now I might try an Internet search for: Lubricants for
seat belts.
Thanks for the entertaining fights too ;-)
Ether Jones wrote:
> Father Haskell wrote:
> crude.</i>
> Depends on your definition of "best". For my cars, full
> synthetic oils
> have proven to be "best".
Tony Hwang
> Ether Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> Father Haskell wrote:
>
>> <i>> The current best lubricating oils are made from Pennsylvania
>> crude.</i>
>
>> Depends on your definition of "best". For my cars, full
>> synthetic oils
>> have proven to be "best".
>
>
>
>
All I know is WD-40 is not a lubricant. It's solvent loosening things up
and cleaning.
Stormin Mormon
Young's Law of usenet: After Nazis have been
invoked and called forth from the spirit world,
someone is sure to mention WD-40. The debate
"is it a lubricant or water displacer" is not complete
until someone explains what the letters abbrev. for.
Points are earned by quoting usenet posters of old,
Aristotle, or your own personal experiences with
WD-40. Web pages abound, and are on topic for
the debate. Regardless of how worthy an argument
is, no one is allowed to change sides. The debate
must continue to eternity.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:0V1Gs.96594$2v.8...@newsfe05.iad...
Doug Miller
> All I know is WD-40 is not a lubricant. It's solvent loosening things up
> and cleaning.
oil in it.
gregz
> responding to
> http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/wd-40-silicone-spray-when-is-one-better-over-the-other-153295-.htm
>
> eiger3970 wrote:
> My first post on here.
> What a fascinating, lengthy discussion about WD40 and silicon spray. I'm
> quite amazed and had to
> respond.
>
> I'm still confused and all I want to do is lubricate my driver's seat
> belt which sticks, rather than
> winding itself back in?
>
> My Toyota Corolla Ascent 2003 local wreckers people suggested silicon
> spray which is a first for
> me.
> My dad always said to use WD-40, but that was in the stone age before access to a world
> knowledge base.
>
> I would really like a definitive list comparison of points.
> If/when I have time I'll make it up, but for now I might try an Internet
> search for: Lubricants for
> seat belts.
>
> Thanks for the entertaining fights too ;-)
>
>
while. Best to clean and dry first with degreaser.
Greg
Oren
<doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>Here we go again... WD-40 is *both* a lubricant and a solvent. Look up the MSDS. There *is*
>oil in it.
Ed Pawlowski
wrote:
>>
>
>Hi,
>All I know is WD-40 is not a lubricant. It's solvent loosening things up
>and cleaning.
applications though. It definitely meets the definition of lubricant.
It may or may not fit your needs, but it will lubricate.
Ed Pawlowski
Tony Hwang
The Daring Dufas
factory that manufactured the clockwork like safety fuses for artillery
shells, the mechanism was lubricated with WD-40. ^_^
TDD
harry
> > Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote innews:0V1Gs.96594$2v.8...@newsfe05.iad:
> >> All I know is WD-40 is not a lubricant. It's solvent loosening things up
> >> and cleaning.
>
> > Here we go again... WD-40 is *both* a lubricant and a solvent. Look up the MSDS. There *is*
> > oil in it.
>
> When I was in college, I worked the night shift at a military ordnance
> factory that manufactured the clockwork like safety fuses for artillery
> shells, the mechanism was lubricated with WD-40. ^_^
>
> TDD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
All but half wits know there is a lubricant in it.
Half wits because everything is so easy to check out these days.
You can make your own, all you need is kerosine or diesel fuel mixed
with engine oil.
Don Phillipson
message news:74fd3$50e88281$45499b77$26...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
> I'm still confused and all I want to do is lubricate my driver's seat belt
> which sticks, rather than
> winding itself back in?
>
> My Toyota Corolla Ascent 2003 local wreckers people suggested silicon
> spray
Toyota servicemen?
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Stormin Mormon
is binding.
"gregz" <ze...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:315725487379129394.35...@news.eternal-september.org...