Telephone line troubleshooting
PaulD
tommorrow, but if I can troubleshoot this myself I am willing to try.
Here is the situation:
The telephone tested the line remotely and did not find a problem.
I do not get a dial tone on any of my phones. I have disconnected
all devices from their jacks and tried reconnecting one at a time. I
did not get a dial tone on any of the lines after disconnecting
everything and letting the system sit for several minutes.
Although I do not get a dial tone on my telephones, I still have a
high speed internet connection. This strikes me as odd, but I don't
know how these things work.
I do not have a more modern network interface. Instead I have an
entrance bridge. My multimeter indicates that I am getting about 24
volts between the green and red wires. One site I have read says this
should be closer to 48 volts. Does this suggest the problem might be
at the phone company?
Are there any other relatively simple things that I can check? What
would should I do next?
Edwin Pawlowski
"PaulD" <paul_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Are there any other relatively simple things that I can check? What
> would should I do next?
Step one is to determine if it is the phone company or your house. To do
this, go outside and find the box where the lines come in. Inside is a
connector from the house to the phone company. Disconnect the house, plug
in a phone to the interface, see if you have a dial tone. If yes, it is
your problem and expect to pay for the service call.
You did the right thing taking all the phones off the line so th at should
eliminate the problem if it is one of your devices. Have you done any work
in the fast few months? I lost my phones after an unused line was cut, but
the corrosion did not short it out until months later.
dadiOH
Plug a corded phone into the jack in the entrance box. If it works
the problem is in your house.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
PaulD
> Step one is to determine if it is the phone company or your house. To do
> this, go outside and find the box where the lines come in. Inside is a
> connector from the house to the phone company. Disconnect the house, plug
> in a phone to the interface, see if you have a dial tone. If yes, it is
> your problem and expect to pay for the service call.
>
>
I don't have a network interface box so there is no telephone plug
where the wires come in. Instead there is what I believe is called a
entrance bridge. I tested for voltage between the green and red
wires. I got 24 volts. I am not sure whether this is within the
range of voltage I should find.
PaulD
>
> If you had wiring problems one of the first things to suffer is your DSL.- Hide quoted text -
>
That is what I would think. Yet I still have my DSL connection. So
is there a problem that would cause my telephone line not to work, but
that would not prevent my internet connection from working?
Jerry
Google "DSL filter". It seems like a bad DSL filter might affect the
phones but not the computer connection. Just guessing here.
Jerry
Eric
number, 24 volts could indicate some device is still trying to use the phone line. Are you sure there's nothing you've
overlooked - an autodialer in a burglar alarm, an unused computer modem, a caller-ID box?
As others have said, assuming your internet connection is DSL, the fact that it's working is a pretty good (although not
100%) sign that your phone line is in good shape.
Eric Law
"PaulD" <paul_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:331c67fb-31e1-42b5...@r31g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Jim Redelfs
<331c67fb-31e1-42b5...@r31g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
PaulD <paul_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My telephone service is out.
> The telephone tested the line remotely and did not find a problem.
Well, that clinches it: You're making it up. Quit it and leave the poor
company alone. <big grin>
> I do not get a dial tone on any of my phones.
It can be helpful if, using a working phone (cell phone, neighbor's phone,
etc), you dial your number and see what you get. Ring/no answer would suggest
an OPEN somewhere. A busy signal would indicate a line fault/short somewhere.
Take a working phone to the Network Interface and plug it in. Since you don't
have one, and you even made that abundantly clear, I thought I would join the
others and make the same, inane suggestion anyway. <sigh>
Since you don't have a SNID (Standard Network Interface Device), you can
probably await a repair without worry for a charge, even if the trouble is
INSIDE your home.
> Although I do not get a dial tone on my telephones, I still have a
> high speed internet connection. This strikes me as odd
Yeah, it did me, too, the first time I encountered such a repair. DSL
(Digital Subscriber Line) will work over a SINGLE conductor, even a rather
faulted one. It takes a "clean" pair for dialtone to work.
> I don't know how these things work.
I don't either, but I've managed to fool my employer. Please don't tell on
me. <g>
> I have an entrance bridge.
That's as good a term as any other. Without seeing the situation, I suppose
you have a "grandfathered" demarc. That is simply a station "protector"
device where the service "drop" and station wire are "commoned" on binding
posts. This is not a bad thing.
> My multimeter indicates that I am getting about 24
> volts between the green and red wires.
OK, you are an order of magnitude beyond the average telephone subscriber
simply by virtue of using the word "multimeter", much less possessing and
using one.
24 volts across the pair suggests an OPEN pair.
Ideally, one side of the pair should have -0- volts with SOLID continuity to
ground while the other side, with one test lead connected to ground, should
have -48 to -52 VDC.
> What would should I do next?
Wait for your phone to ring. I'll bet "they" don't even have to come to the
house. Please let us know what happened. Good luck.
--
:)
JR
Climb poles and dig holes
Have staplegun, will travel
Marilyn & Bob
"Eric" <nos...@here.com.org> wrote in message
news:474c69fd$0$28189$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> 48 volts is about right if no phone or other device is "off the hook".
> Although I would have expected a somewhat lower number, 24 volts could
> indicate some device is still trying to use the phone line. Are you sure
> there's nothing you've overlooked - an autodialer in a burglar alarm, an
> unused computer modem, a caller-ID box?
>
> As others have said, assuming your internet connection is DSL, the fact
> that it's working is a pretty good (although not 100%) sign that your
> phone line is in good shape.
>
> Eric Law
Surprising as it seems, this is just not true. It is quite possible to have
DSL and no dial tone. This often is the case when the line gets shorted out
by something like water in the box (has it rained hard lately?), or animals
gnawing on the insulation, or just plain corrosion. In some ways the DSL
signal is more tolerant than POTS. BTW, if your DSL is still connected,
then you don't have everything unplugged. Try unplugging the DSL and plug
in one phone to check for a dial tone.
--
Peace,
BobJ
Mamba
news:2c1065c2-7eb4-4596...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Hard to imagine tho. I beleive a DSL filter goes on each voice phone line,
meaning each one would need to be faulty?
Andy Petro
"Jim Redelfs" <jim.r...@NOSPAMredelfs.com> wrote in message
news:jim.redelfs-C858...@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
The voltage should be 48 volts but only if nothing is connected to it.
Disconnect your DSL and check your voltage.With it connected it should
be 24 volts.
A DSL will work with they call a dry line. In other words you do not
have to have phone service to use he internet .
If your internet works and you have 48 volts with DSL and everything
disconnected then the fault definitely rests with the phone company.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Art Todesco
I don't think so. DSL is just an add
on, the line looks the same. Mine,
2 minutes ago, read 46 volts across the
tip and ring. The lower voltage,
46 volts instead of the higher 48 to 52
volts, I think, comes from the fact
that my line comes from a remote vault
about 3 blocks
away. The DSL also comes from that
vault. They use a Lucent product
called Lightwave 2000 to remote the line
from the central office to the
vault.
DA
http://thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Telephone-line-troubleshooting-269065-.htm
:
PaulD wrote:
> My telephone service is out. My multimeter indicates that I am getting
about 24
> volts between the green and red wires.
> Are there any other relatively simple things that I can check? What
> would should I do next?
Sounds like a wiring corrosion or equipment problem. Nothing on your end
though, you'll have to wait until the repair tech gets there. The DSL
signal is voltage-independent and so it is not affected (enough to shut it
down). I know is sucks to sit and wait but you need to let the PhoneCo
handle that.
Good luck!
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badgolferman
> DA had written this in response to
> http://thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Telephone-line-troubleshooting
> -269065-.htm :
>
> PaulD wrote:
>
>
> > My telephone service is out. My multimeter indicates that I am
> > getting
> about 24
> > volts between the green and red wires.
> > Are there any other relatively simple things that I can check?
> > What would should I do next?
>
> Sounds like a wiring corrosion or equipment problem. Nothing on your
> end though, you'll have to wait until the repair tech gets there. The
> DSL signal is voltage-independent and so it is not affected (enough
> to shut it down). I know is sucks to sit and wait but you need to let
> the PhoneCo handle that.
You may be right about the corrosion or equipment problem. If not in
this case then in many other instances this is true. That is one main
reason Verizon is dropping copper lines and going to FiOS. The
maintenance costs of corroding copper and especially the power supplies
at the Central Office used to power everything is prohibitively high.
And of course the other main reason is they had to find a way to
compete with the cable companies in regard to delivering video content.
The initial cost of bringing fiber all the way to the premise is high
but the future dividends will pay off handsomely, at least Verizon is
betting the farm on it.
--
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable but more
useful than a life spent doing nothing." ~ George Bernard Shaw
Eric
>
> "Eric" <nos...@here.com.org> wrote in message news:474c69fd$0$28189$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> 48 volts is about right if no phone or other device is "off the hook". Although I would have expected a somewhat lower
>> number, 24 volts could indicate some device is still trying to use the phone line. Are you sure there's nothing you've
>> overlooked - an autodialer in a burglar alarm, an unused computer modem, a caller-ID box?
>>
>> As others have said, assuming your internet connection is DSL, the fact that it's working is a pretty good (although not
>> 100%) sign that your phone line is in good shape.
>>
>> Eric Law
>
> Surprising as it seems, this is just not true. It is quite possible to have DSL and no dial tone. This often is the case
> when the line gets shorted out by something like water in the box (has it rained hard lately?), or animals gnawing on the
> insulation, or just plain corrosion. In some ways the DSL signal is more tolerant than POTS. BTW, if your DSL is still
> connected, then you don't have everything unplugged. Try unplugging the DSL and plug in one phone to check for a dial
> tone.
> --
> Peace,
> BobJ
Although in my experience with maybe 30 different installations, I've seen "dialtone with no DSL" numerous times, have never
seen "DSL with no dialtone".
Good idea about unplugging the DSL though, and as other posters have said, the filters too.
Eric
Roy Starrin
Your DSL can and does get by on only one wire. I went through this
with local VZ, with the same symptoms and the same results.
First, it is a telphone problem. Work with the folks at VZ tel vice
VZ broadband.
Here are some of the things I was told:
> call VZ phone support, and add to that my suggestion:
>Be diligent in writing down the date and time of every call you make (there
>will likely be more than one) and the name of the reps (there will likely be
>more than one per call as well) that you speak to, and the gist of the
>conversation. (If you can, record the calls, but be sure to advise the reps
>you are doing so.)
>
>Keep this documented. If it doesn't get resolved quickly, be prepared to
>write a letter of complaint with copies to your Attorney General's office and
>to the Better Business Bureau. Include the dates and times of your
>conversations, along with the names of the reps.
Of all that I did, calling VZ and telling them that my next call was
to the VA Public Utility Commission appeared to be the most
effective. HOWEVER, I then,per the instructions in the phone book,
emailed their consumer complaint folks. I told them that having no 911
for 5 days was totally unsat, and the next email was going to the SCC,
just as they provide for in the book.
The problem, which was never disclosed. simply went away by the end
of the day
Oh, the next day, the phone was fine and the DSL went out
BTW - I was advised that "the requirement" is that POTS be restored
within 24 hours, since you have no 911 service. That is the point I
hammered home to the phone company
HTH
starrin
Jerry
>
> Hard to imagine tho. I beleive a DSL filter goes on each voice phone line,
> meaning each one would need to be faulty?
Not necessarily. Some of the material I googled indicated that a DSL
installation might involve a splitter, right at the phone line
entrance to the premises. One line in, two lines out. One of the two
lines goes to the DSL modem only. The other line goes to all the voice
telephone jacks. In this case, 1 filter would suffice for all the
voice jacks.
Jerry
PaulD
The telephone repairman came out today. The problem was outside
the house in the telephone company's lines. My wife was at home not
me so I don't know what the problem was in the telephone company's
equipment. The repairman mentioned work was being done about two
miles from my house that apparently caused the problem.
Interestingly, my connection seemed to be the only one effected.
Smitty Two
<7a78b5ac-9dbc-4434...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com>,
PaulD <paul_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Excellent. I put up with an intermittent fault on my line for six months
once, because they kept telling me that it was in my house somewhere,
and I didn't want to pay their rates. Finally broke down and had them
come out, and sure enough, same deal -- a problem in a telco box about a
mile away.
terry
That is the way our older installed DSL is; there is one 'filter'
right after telco. line enters the house which separates the
telephones from the DSL. After that it is separate wiring to the
phones around the house.
In newer and 'self' installations there is often a filter at each
phone which prevents DSL from getting into the phones and/or they from
interfering with the DSL.
Don't think the OP has enough circuit analytical skills to trouble
shoot the situation. And seems to be averse to totally disconnecting
the telephone pair outside to prove whether it is IN or or OUTSIDE his
house?
It may be one side open outside, something shorting (or semi shorting)
the line, defective modem, defective filter. Agree that in most cases
if it's outside it's telco responsibility. If inside, these days of
competition etc. customer responsibility. But he should be careful
about not messing it up more for the telephone tech to have to fix!
terry
Paul thanks for posting the update. Sounds like it was a 'cable pair'
problem although two miles sounds like a long way for DSl. Maybe while
phone was out, the DSL 'was getting through' on one side of the cable
pair or through a high resistance cable join in one side of the cable
pair.
franz frippl
There should be a network interface box where the wires come into the
house, if you are in the US. Open the box where it indicates "customer"
side and disconnect the jumper strap. You should then be totally
isolated from the phone company's system. Next plug a working phone into
the jack. If you get dial tone, then the problem is within your house.
If no dial tone, then it's a phone company issue.
Art Todesco
come in the house; no interface
box, just a lightening arrestor/terminal
box. The line splits; one to a DSL filter,
to the phones; the other to the DSL
modem and one additional wired
phone with its own DSL filter.
Jim Redelfs
A common scenario: A maintenance "section throw" was done in a large(er)
cable serving your area. That is, a "bad" section of cable was replaced.
This typically involves a splicer at each end of the section. With voice
coordination between the two technicians, they cut-off the old cable, a
25-pair group-at-a-time and connect the new group.
During this process it is not uncommon for a pair to be transposed to a
different (wrong) pair. If the affected pair is a "working" pair, that
subscriber is OOS (Out Of Service) until they report the trouble.
That your DSL remained usable is technically feasible under a couple or more
scenarios including a split pair, the section throw was "ahead" of the DSLAM,
etc.
--
:)
JR
Mean Evil Bell System
Historical Society
David Combs
PaulD <paul_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't have a network interface box so there is no telephone plug
>where the wires come in. Instead there is what I believe is called a
>entrance bridge. I tested for voltage between the green and red
>wires. I got 24 volts. I am not sure whether this is within the
>range of voltage I should find.
Belated, maybe, but what do you measure INSIDE the house?
David