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Wiring New LED Ceiling Light Fixture for 1960s House
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Elle N
Oct 17, 2021, 8:39:16 AM10/17/21
to
House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture.
A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable.
The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed.
I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem.
The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine.
Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows:
Black wire bundle --
Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open.
Red wire --
Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open
White wire --
Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open. nut.
The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
Is the following plan correct?
Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable.
The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed.
I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem.
The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine.
Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows:
Black wire bundle --
Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open.
Red wire --
Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open
White wire --
Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
0 volts with breaker open. nut.
The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
Is the following plan correct?
Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
Dean Hoffman
Oct 17, 2021, 9:22:54 AM10/17/21
to
Elle N
Oct 17, 2021, 11:00:21 AM10/17/21
to
On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:22:54 AM UTC-6, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> Sounds like the plan. Why would the insulation be an issue? LEDs run cooler than incandescents.
The packaging on just about any new light fixture has this caution:
> Sounds like the plan. Why would the insulation be an issue? LEDs run cooler than incandescents.
MINIMUM 75 DEGREES C SUPPLY CONNECTORS.
From googling I understand the concern is that the insulation will deteriorate.
But yes, the LEDs run cooler and draw lower amps.
I suppose it is part of the evolution of the electrical code, all to promote safety.
Thank you for checking my work.
trader_4
Oct 17, 2021, 11:39:50 AM10/17/21
to
Ralph Mowery
Oct 17, 2021, 12:52:52 PM10/17/21
to
In article <eb21ff06-0e18-4ad6...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...
the white wires.
Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there
are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes ,
while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that
viberated a lot like some motors.
tra...@optonline.net says...
> Black wire bundle --
> > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with breaker open.
> >
> > Red wire --
> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with breaker open
> >
> > White wire --
> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut.
> > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with breaker open.
> >
> > Red wire --
> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with breaker open
> >
> > White wire --
> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
> >
> > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
> >
> > Is the following plan correct?
> > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
> > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
> > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
> > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
> >
> > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
>
> Yes. And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
>
>
>
Seems odd to me that there is no wire nut over the red wires. Or even
> > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
> >
> > Is the following plan correct?
> > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
> > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
> > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
> > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
> >
> > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
>
> Yes. And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
>
>
>
the white wires.
Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there
are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes ,
while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that
viberated a lot like some motors.
micky
Oct 17, 2021, 1:21:18 PM10/17/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:52:46 -0400, Ralph Mowery
There was, but her father didn't finish one day and never got back to
it. DAMHIKT
didn't strip more than the electrician did, but Elle should look. Even
the electrician could have done it wrong. :) (The electrician who
did this house made 3 mistakes, but none that affected safety in the
slightest. I'm going more by physicians.)
>are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes ,
>while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that
>viberated a lot like some motors.
I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they
were all from the same guy.
it. DAMHIKT
>
>Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there
Meaning not too much insulation stripped from the wire. He probably
>Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there
didn't strip more than the electrician did, but Elle should look. Even
the electrician could have done it wrong. :) (The electrician who
did this house made 3 mistakes, but none that affected safety in the
slightest. I'm going more by physicians.)
>are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes ,
>while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that
>viberated a lot like some motors.
were all from the same guy.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 17, 2021, 6:03:19 PM10/17/21
to
On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 05:39:14 -0700 (PDT), Elle N
<honda....@gmail.com> wrote:
>House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture.
>
>A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable.
>
>The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed.
>
>I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem.
>
>The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine.
>
>Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows:
>
>Black wire bundle --
>Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
>120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>0 volts with breaker open.
>
>Red wire --
>Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
>120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>0 volts with breaker open
>
>White wire --
>Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
>0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>0 volts with breaker open. ?nut.
<honda....@gmail.com> wrote:
>House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture.
>
>A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable.
>
>The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed.
>
>I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem.
>
>The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine.
>
>Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows:
>
>Black wire bundle --
>Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together.
>120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>0 volts with breaker open.
>
>Red wire --
>Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
>120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>0 volts with breaker open
>
>White wire --
>Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut.
>0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut.
>0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut.
>
>The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
>
>Is the following plan correct?
>Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
>Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
>Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
>Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
>
>Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
I suspect the hot black wire would be for a fan that had an integrated
>The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire.
>
>Is the following plan correct?
>Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire.
>Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire.
>Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded).
>Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box.
>
>Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?
switch. Red to the fan light and (white) neutral is just a neutral.
Wire nut all the connections and rock on.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 17, 2021, 6:23:38 PM10/17/21
to
On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
I am not sure where anyone got the idea to tape wire nuts but it
probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped.
Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some
profanity. Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy. I have even heard of
inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
wrote:
probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped.
Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some
profanity. Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy. I have even heard of
inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
Ralph Mowery
Oct 17, 2021, 6:30:35 PM10/17/21
to
In article <ac8pmg5ij2go43mbd...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
used and then taped with the varnished cambric tape and then electrical
or even the friction tape.
I was glad when we switched that out at work and went to some rubber
boots that slipped over the connections and a couple of ty-raps held
them on.
gfre...@aol.com says...
>
> I am not sure where anyone got the idea to tape wire nuts but it
> probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped.
> Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some
> profanity. Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
> It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy. I have even heard of
> inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
>
>
It could come from when the split bolts or wire lugs and screws were
> I am not sure where anyone got the idea to tape wire nuts but it
> probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped.
> Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some
> profanity. Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
> It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy. I have even heard of
> inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
>
>
used and then taped with the varnished cambric tape and then electrical
or even the friction tape.
I was glad when we switched that out at work and went to some rubber
boots that slipped over the connections and a couple of ty-raps held
them on.
Clare Snyder
Oct 17, 2021, 6:57:24 PM10/17/21
to
taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his
workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
micky
Oct 17, 2021, 8:33:36 PM10/17/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:57:18 -0400, Clare Snyder
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>>.....
>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they
>>were all from the same guy.
> Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found
>taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his
>workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
Good to know. I'm not going to let your guys inspect my work.
>>were all from the same guy.
> Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found
>taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his
>workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
Elle N
Oct 18, 2021, 6:44:07 AM10/18/21
to
It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut. I never liked pushing all the wire bundles into a box and risking a nut coming loose from the nut, say, rubbing against other parts. But I understand people's point here: If the wire nut is snug and the wire ends are stripped to the right length, the nut should not come free, and there should not be a risk of a short/fault.
Background on what happened here:
In the 1950s, when my Dad was a young twenty-something, he wired the family's entire three bedroom, 1.5 bath vacation cabin, per code. Now he's in his 90s. Some months ago Mom asked him to change out the fixture's light bulb. With his mind not working right, he took the whole fixture down. (The old fixture was grabbed up by the crew who installed a new deck recently, all at Mom's direction.) Now the tools and ladder are locked up. Dad appears to have left the black wires alone but of course disconnected the red wire bundle and the white wire bundle. I guess he mislaid the wire nuts. The ceiling outlet was left open and exposed (granted out of reach of all) for the last several months.
The other day Dad sat and watched me work. I got "bit" (very mildly shocked) the other day. I stupidly failed to realize that, while the wall switch shut off power to the red wire bundle, the breaker had to be open to shut off power to the black wire bundle. Dad still knows enough to keep prompting me to check for voltage with my little voltage tester (the type with the little light bulb with two wires coming out of it) and was clearly displeased when I said I got bit. So was I. Dumbass mistake by me.
With the wall switch off and the breaker open, I connected the new LED fixture for a test drive yesterday. It works great. I am just tweaking its installation now.
I appreciate folks checking my work.
Background on what happened here:
In the 1950s, when my Dad was a young twenty-something, he wired the family's entire three bedroom, 1.5 bath vacation cabin, per code. Now he's in his 90s. Some months ago Mom asked him to change out the fixture's light bulb. With his mind not working right, he took the whole fixture down. (The old fixture was grabbed up by the crew who installed a new deck recently, all at Mom's direction.) Now the tools and ladder are locked up. Dad appears to have left the black wires alone but of course disconnected the red wire bundle and the white wire bundle. I guess he mislaid the wire nuts. The ceiling outlet was left open and exposed (granted out of reach of all) for the last several months.
The other day Dad sat and watched me work. I got "bit" (very mildly shocked) the other day. I stupidly failed to realize that, while the wall switch shut off power to the red wire bundle, the breaker had to be open to shut off power to the black wire bundle. Dad still knows enough to keep prompting me to check for voltage with my little voltage tester (the type with the little light bulb with two wires coming out of it) and was clearly displeased when I said I got bit. So was I. Dumbass mistake by me.
With the wall switch off and the breaker open, I connected the new LED fixture for a test drive yesterday. It works great. I am just tweaking its installation now.
I appreciate folks checking my work.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 18, 2021, 10:46:34 AM10/18/21
to
On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:33:29 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
You should be OK. The last Maryland inspector I saw worked out the
window of his truck and there are plenty of municipal inspectors who
do that here. Some AHJs will send them out with 30+ tickets a day so
they are not looking at much.
I was happy I worked for the state and we didn't get slammed like
that.
wrote:
window of his truck and there are plenty of municipal inspectors who
do that here. Some AHJs will send them out with 30+ tickets a day so
they are not looking at much.
I was happy I worked for the state and we didn't get slammed like
that.
Clare Snyder
Oct 18, 2021, 12:03:00 PM10/18/21
to
in my house - - - - -
TimR
Oct 18, 2021, 12:18:33 PM10/18/21
to
On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:
> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.
I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing.
> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.
micky
Oct 18, 2021, 12:19:35 PM10/18/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 18 Oct 2021 12:02:54 -0400, Clare Snyder
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:33:29 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:57:18 -0400, Clare Snyder
>><cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>.....
>>>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they
>>>>were all from the same guy.
>>> Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found
>>>taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his
>>>workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
>>
>>Good to know. I'm not going to let your guys inspect my work.
> That's fair Micky - and I am not going to allow you to do any wiring
>in my house - - - - -
That's fine. It will give us more time for dinner.
>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:33:29 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:57:18 -0400, Clare Snyder
>><cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>.....
>>>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they
>>>>were all from the same guy.
>>> Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found
>>>taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his
>>>workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
>>
>>Good to know. I'm not going to let your guys inspect my work.
> That's fair Micky - and I am not going to allow you to do any wiring
>in my house - - - - -
trader_4
Oct 19, 2021, 10:13:22 AM10/19/21
to
Marilyn Manson
Oct 19, 2021, 2:38:18 PM10/19/21
to
For example, installing a wide dimmer switch in a very old narrow box.
Sometimes I just didn't like the minimal clearance and it made me more
comfortable to throw a couple of layers of tape around the screws.
Should I have ripped the old box out the plaster/lath wall, hoping that the
dried up cloth insulation on the wires didn't turn to dust and put in a "modern"
box, assuming the framing would allow me too? Maybe. Probably. Didn't.
LegionX
Oct 24, 2021, 12:53:20 AM10/24/21
to
trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> Wrote in message:r
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:39:16 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture. > > A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable. > > The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed. > > I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem. > > The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine. > > Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows: > > Black wire bundle -- > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. > > Red wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open > > White wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. > > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. > > Is the following plan correct? > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire. > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. > > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?Yes.
>And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
Then why do some manufacturer's of lighting fixtures and fans all
state for you to wrap the wirenuts in electrical tape before
tucking them into the box and out of the way? Surely they aren't
telling you to wire it in an nec illegal manner? And surely they
aren't suggesting for you to spend additional time and your tape
if there's no benefit to doing so?
--
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Snit is one f*cked up puppy - who steals our hard earned tax
paying dollars from the government by running a long con for
welfare - who can be reached via telephone - text message - or in
person - by using the publically available contact information
below:
Michael (snit) and Anne Glasser (life-like troll lady)
3181 Willow Dr, Prescott, AZ
86301-4855
1.928.445.3425 or 1-(928)-445-3425
1.928.776.9519 or 1-(928)-776-9519
They are professional Grifters who live on the benefits your hard
earned tax paying dollars provide. Animal abuser = snit pissed on
his own cat!
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:39:16 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture. > > A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable. > > The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed. > > I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem. > > The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine. > > Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box. Voltages across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows: > > Black wire bundle -- > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. > > Red wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open > > White wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. > > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. > > Is the following plan correct? > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire. > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. > > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?Yes.
>And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
state for you to wrap the wirenuts in electrical tape before
tucking them into the box and out of the way? Surely they aren't
telling you to wire it in an nec illegal manner? And surely they
aren't suggesting for you to spend additional time and your tape
if there's no benefit to doing so?
--
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitwhopperlie>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-teddybear>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitonduck>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitongoogle>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse1>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse2>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse3>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse4>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse5>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse6>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse7>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse8>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse9>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse10>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse11>
Snit is one f*cked up puppy - who steals our hard earned tax
paying dollars from the government by running a long con for
welfare - who can be reached via telephone - text message - or in
person - by using the publically available contact information
below:
Michael (snit) and Anne Glasser (life-like troll lady)
3181 Willow Dr, Prescott, AZ
86301-4855
1.928.445.3425 or 1-(928)-445-3425
1.928.776.9519 or 1-(928)-776-9519
They are professional Grifters who live on the benefits your hard
earned tax paying dollars provide. Animal abuser = snit pissed on
his own cat!
LegionX
Oct 24, 2021, 1:04:31 AM10/24/21
to
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>I am not sure where anyone got the idea to tape wire nuts but it probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped. Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some profanity.
These electricians who scoff might want to read the instruction
sheet for the next pendant light they hang. Depending on
manufacturer they might be surprised to learn the manufacturer
lists taping the wirenuts with electrical tape as the next step
after putting the wirenuts on in the first place. They can inform
the manufacturer how stupid wasteful and possibly code violating
their instructions are if actually followed.
>Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
If it's going back into a metal box all of us have been taught to
give it a strip of electrical tape across the terminal screws by
electricians from master to journeyman in TN and VA.
YMMV.
>It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy.
Maybe if you get crazy with the amount of tape you applied.
Otherwise dunno about an ugly mess.
>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
Have you personally ever been gigged for it? Do you personally
know anyone who has? Not only is our answer no to both questions
we've all been taught to do this by various master electricians
we apprenticed under. We've never heard an inspector in TN or VA
bring it up and between us all we cover a lot of ground in
both.
>I am not sure where anyone got the idea to tape wire nuts but it probably dates back to when wires were soldered and taped. Most electricians will scoff at it when they see it, perhaps with some profanity.
sheet for the next pendant light they hang. Depending on
manufacturer they might be surprised to learn the manufacturer
lists taping the wirenuts with electrical tape as the next step
after putting the wirenuts on in the first place. They can inform
the manufacturer how stupid wasteful and possibly code violating
their instructions are if actually followed.
>Same with taping up devices like switches and receptacles.
give it a strip of electrical tape across the terminal screws by
electricians from master to journeyman in TN and VA.
YMMV.
>It just makes an ugly mess for the next guy.
Otherwise dunno about an ugly mess.
>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
know anyone who has? Not only is our answer no to both questions
we've all been taught to do this by various master electricians
we apprenticed under. We've never heard an inspector in TN or VA
bring it up and between us all we cover a lot of ground in
both.
LegionX
Oct 24, 2021, 1:10:30 AM10/24/21
to
Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>I will admit to taping the occasional switch and/or receptacle.For example, installing a wide dimmer switch in a very old narrow box. Sometimes I just didn't like the minimal clearance and it made me more comfortable to throw a couple of layers of tape around the screws.
We do as well.
>Should I have ripped the old box out the plaster/lath wall, hoping that the dried up cloth insulation on the wires didn't turn to dust and put in a "modern"box, assuming the framing would allow me too? Maybe. Probably. Didn't.
That falls under don't fix it if it's not broken. Fuxor the
insulation up too badly where tape cannot be effectively used to
reinsulate and you get the pleasure of running a new line - if
you even can. You can quickly make an easy switch changeout into
a fucking project.
>I will admit to taping the occasional switch and/or receptacle.For example, installing a wide dimmer switch in a very old narrow box. Sometimes I just didn't like the minimal clearance and it made me more comfortable to throw a couple of layers of tape around the screws.
We do as well.
>Should I have ripped the old box out the plaster/lath wall, hoping that the dried up cloth insulation on the wires didn't turn to dust and put in a "modern"box, assuming the framing would allow me too? Maybe. Probably. Didn't.
insulation up too badly where tape cannot be effectively used to
reinsulate and you get the pleasure of running a new line - if
you even can. You can quickly make an easy switch changeout into
a fucking project.
LegionX
Oct 24, 2021, 1:17:29 AM10/24/21
to
Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca> Wrote in message:r
provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
as the very next thing to do after installing the
wirenuts.
If the inspector still persists we'd go to the state one for
clarification. Do we ignore the manufacturer instructions that
tell us to do this or... Do we install the damn thing as the
manufacturer provided instructions for?
We usually do it the way the manufacturer wrote. Perhaps
incorrectly assuming on our parts that the manufacturer knows the
product better than us. Illogically assuming again you know -
since they built it and got it ul and intertek approved.
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>wrote:>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:52:46 -0400, Ralph Mowery><rmow...@charter.net> wrote:>>>In article <eb21ff06-0e18-4ad6...@googlegroups.com>, >>tra...@optonline.net says...>>> Black wire bundle -- >>> > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. >>> > >>> > Red wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open >>> > >>> > White wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. >>> > >>> > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. >>> > >>> > Is the following plan correct? >>> > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. >>> > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire. >>> > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). >>> > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. >>> > >>> > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?>>> >>> Yes. And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.>>> >>> >>> >>>>Seems odd to me that there is no wire nut over the red wires. Or even >>the white wires. >>There was, but her father didn't finish one day and never got back to>it. DAMHIKT>>>>Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there >>Meaning not too much insulation stripped from the wire. He probably>didn't strip more than the electrician did, but Elle should look. Even>the electrician could have done it wrong. :) (The electrician who>did this house made 3 mistakes, but none that affected safety in the>slightest. I'm going more by physicians.) >>>are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes , >>while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that >>viberated a lot like some motors.>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they>were all from the same guy.
>Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
We would challenge that with the installation instructions
>Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
as the very next thing to do after installing the
wirenuts.
If the inspector still persists we'd go to the state one for
clarification. Do we ignore the manufacturer instructions that
tell us to do this or... Do we install the damn thing as the
manufacturer provided instructions for?
We usually do it the way the manufacturer wrote. Perhaps
incorrectly assuming on our parts that the manufacturer knows the
product better than us. Illogically assuming again you know -
since they built it and got it ul and intertek approved.
LegionX
Oct 24, 2021, 1:21:27 AM10/24/21
to
TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing.
We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So
it's more than an amateur thing yes. So much more that some
manufacturers specifically list taping the wirenuts as the next
step after applying them. But hey they are just the people who
make the device. What the fuck do they really know about it.
Lol.
> On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing.
We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So
it's more than an amateur thing yes. So much more that some
manufacturers specifically list taping the wirenuts as the next
step after applying them. But hey they are just the people who
make the device. What the fuck do they really know about it.
Lol.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 24, 2021, 2:24:34 AM10/24/21
to
On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 00:53:14 -0400 (EDT), LegionX
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> Wrote in message:r
>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:39:16 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture. > > A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable. > > The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed. > > I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem. > > The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine. > > Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box.
Voltages
>across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows: > > Black wire bundle -- > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. > > Red wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open > > White wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. > > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. > > Is the following plan correct? > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light
>fixture's white wire. > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. > > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?Yes.
>
>>And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
>
>Then why do some manufacturer's of lighting fixtures and fans all
> state for you to wrap the wirenuts in electrical tape before
> tucking them into the box and out of the way? Surely they aren't
> telling you to wire it in an nec illegal manner? And surely they
> aren't suggesting for you to spend additional time and your tape
> if there's no benefit to doing so?
Which companies are that. It certainly isn't Hunter (fans)
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> Wrote in message:r
>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:39:16 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> House built in the 1960s. Dad with dementia removed an old ceiling light fixture months ago. Mom wants a new light fixture. > > A total of three ceiling light fixtures are on the circuit. The breaker for the circuit is rated at 15 amps. The ceiling is in the basement of the home (so not the attic and so I think cooler in temperature). One wall switch controls all three ceiling lights. The switch is not dimmable. > > The ceiling light fixture box has the (now usual) warning that wire rated for 75 degree C is needed. > > I think the wire coming out of the junction box is AWG 12 but it might be AWG 14. I believe the 1960s-era insulation is the potential problem. > > The old light fixture used an incandescent bulb. The two other ceiling lights on the circuit used to have incandescent bulbs but are now using LED bulbs and working fine. > > Three wires bundles come out of the ceiling light junction box.
Voltages
>across each wire bundle and ground (the junction box itself) with wall switch on and off and breaker open and shut are as follows: > > Black wire bundle -- > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. > > Red wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open > > White wire -- > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. > > The brand new LED light fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. > > Is the following plan correct? > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light
>fixture's white wire. > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. > > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?Yes.
>
>>And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.
>
>Then why do some manufacturer's of lighting fixtures and fans all
> state for you to wrap the wirenuts in electrical tape before
> tucking them into the box and out of the way? Surely they aren't
> telling you to wire it in an nec illegal manner? And surely they
> aren't suggesting for you to spend additional time and your tape
> if there's no benefit to doing so?
https://www.hunterfan.com/pages/how-to-install-a-ceiling-fan#tab-wire
Hampton Bay just says call an electrician but the picture they show
has no taped wirenuts.
https://www.hampton-ceilingfans.com/installation/
https://www.hampton-ceilingfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/inside_ceiling_fan_housing-450x338.jpg
Give us some examples.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 24, 2021, 2:32:28 AM10/24/21
to
On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:17:22 -0400 (EDT), LegionX
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>We would challenge that with the installation instructions
> provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
> listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
> as the very next thing to do after installing the
> wirenuts.
Cite that?
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>We would challenge that with the installation instructions
> provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
> listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
> as the very next thing to do after installing the
> wirenuts.
Is it in the UL white book or is it in the instructions for the
wirenuts?
Ideal says you don't even need to twist the wire.
https://media.distributordatasolutions.com/ideal/2018q1/4f4025b843ad269ca094e7cd5e499b8234009939.pdf
Be specific., A link would help.
Lemme guess, you are a homeowner who bought a DIY book.
TimR
Oct 24, 2021, 7:36:18 AM10/24/21
to
On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 2:32:28 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> Ideal says you don't even need to twist the wire.
>
Interesting. I twist stranded but never solid. Now we have a whole new argument.
> Ideal says you don't even need to twist the wire.
>
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 24, 2021, 5:26:27 PM10/24/21
to
the spec. They just say you don't have to. What you do have to do is
be sure the ends line up when you screw the nut on so all have the
same penetration and that might be hard to do on a ladder, maybe in
bad light. If you twist them, you know what is going into the wire
nut.
The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the
installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not
adding a step like using tape.
Arlington has a whole line of new products being sold on how many
seconds the installer saves per termination.
Time is money and these days contractors will use a more expensive
product if it saves time. I actually question some of these things
like using a single flat spring to establish a grounding path on a
stab and go AC/MC connector but it is listed so you just have to hold
your nose and accept it.
Clare Snyder
Oct 24, 2021, 6:27:53 PM10/24/21
to
>Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca> Wrote in message:r
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>wrote:>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:52:46 -0400, Ralph Mowery><rmow...@charter.net> wrote:>>>In article <eb21ff06-0e18-4ad6...@googlegroups.com>, >>tra...@optonline.net says...>>> Black wire bundle -- >>> > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. >>> > >>> > Red wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open >>> > >>> > White wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. >>> > >>> > The brand new LED light
>fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. >>> > >>> > Is the following plan correct? >>> > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. >>> > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire. >>> > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). >>> > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. >>> > >>> > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?>>> >>> Yes. And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.>>> >>> >>> >>>>Seems odd to me that there is no wire nut over the red wires. Or even >>the white wires. >>There was, but her father didn't finish one day and never got back to>it. DAMHIKT>>>>Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there >>Meaning not too much insulation stripped from the wire. He
probably>didn't
>strip more than the electrician did, but Elle should look. Even>the electrician could have done it wrong. :) (The electrician who>did this house made 3 mistakes, but none that affected safety in the>slightest. I'm going more by physicians.) >>>are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes , >>while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that >>viberated a lot like some motors.>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they>were all from the same guy.
>
>>Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
>
>We would challenge that with the installation instructions
> provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
> listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
> as the very next thing to do after installing the
> wirenuts.
>
>If the inspector still persists we'd go to the state one for
> clarification. Do we ignore the manufacturer instructions that
> tell us to do this or... Do we install the damn thing as the
> manufacturer provided instructions for?
>
>We usually do it the way the manufacturer wrote. Perhaps
> incorrectly assuming on our parts that the manufacturer knows the
> product better than us. Illogically assuming again you know -
> since they built it and got it ul and intertek approved.
Let's see an actual instruction sheet where that is called out -
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:21:12 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>wrote:>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:52:46 -0400, Ralph Mowery><rmow...@charter.net> wrote:>>>In article <eb21ff06-0e18-4ad6...@googlegroups.com>, >>tra...@optonline.net says...>>> Black wire bundle -- >>> > Found with a black wire nut holding the wires together. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. >>> > >>> > Red wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 120 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open >>> > >>> > White wire -- >>> > Found with bare ends twisted together, no wire nut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch on and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with wall switch off and breaker shut. >>> > 0 volts with breaker open. ?nut. >>> > >>> > The brand new LED light
>fixture has a black wire, a white wire, and the bare copper wire. >>> > >>> > Is the following plan correct? >>> > Wire nut the red wire bundle to the LED light fixture's black wire. >>> > Wire nut the white wire bundle to the LED light fixture's white wire. >>> > Attach the LED light fixture's copper wire to the junction box (which is grounded). >>> > Put electrical tape over the black wire nut (holding the black wires together) and prepare to stuff back into junction box. >>> > >>> > Is the black wire present just to connect ___ to ___ elsewhere in the house?>>> >>> Yes. And it sounds right, except there is no need to put tape over wire nuts.>>> >>> >>> >>>>Seems odd to me that there is no wire nut over the red wires. Or even >>the white wires. >>There was, but her father didn't finish one day and never got back to>it. DAMHIKT>>>>Agree, no need to tape over wire nuts if done correctly . At work there >>Meaning not too much insulation stripped from the wire. He
probably>didn't
>strip more than the electrician did, but Elle should look. Even>the electrician could have done it wrong. :) (The electrician who>did this house made 3 mistakes, but none that affected safety in the>slightest. I'm going more by physicians.) >>>are thousands of wire nuts in use and no tape over them. Sometimes , >>while not needed, we would tape over the wire nuts of equipment that >>viberated a lot like some motors.>>I thought years ago I saw a lot of taped wire nuts ???? but maybe they>were all from the same guy.
>
>>Inspectors around here would automatically fail a job if they found taped wire-nuts - the rationalle being if sparky didn't trust his workmanship (that the nuts would stay on) why should the inspector???
>
>We would challenge that with the installation instructions
> provided by the manufacturer of the ul and intertek
> listed/certified device that lists putting tape on the wirenuts
> as the very next thing to do after installing the
> wirenuts.
>
>If the inspector still persists we'd go to the state one for
> clarification. Do we ignore the manufacturer instructions that
> tell us to do this or... Do we install the damn thing as the
> manufacturer provided instructions for?
>
>We usually do it the way the manufacturer wrote. Perhaps
> incorrectly assuming on our parts that the manufacturer knows the
> product better than us. Illogically assuming again you know -
> since they built it and got it ul and intertek approved.
OK??
Marilyn Manson
Oct 24, 2021, 10:11:26 PM10/24/21
to
On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 1:21:27 AM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:
> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>
> > On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing.
>
> We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So
> it's more than an amateur thing yes.
Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians?
> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>
> > On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing.
>
> We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So
> it's more than an amateur thing yes.
Maybe I missed it...what group are you a member of that make you
part of a "we"?
Just curious.
Marilyn Manson
Oct 24, 2021, 10:13:13 PM10/24/21
to
https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/2a/2a78762d-e2b7-4b70-90ad-822e3e063ee7.pdf
Marilyn Manson
Oct 24, 2021, 10:18:42 PM10/24/21
to
https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/2a/2a78762d-e2b7-4b70-90ad-822e3e063ee7.pdf
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 24, 2021, 10:46:17 PM10/24/21
to
do not mention tape.
From a code enforcement perspective that is not an enforceable
"recommendation" from a 3d party user of the wiring device.
Even if Ideal used that language, it is not enforceable.
The words "must" or "shall" pretty much have to be used to make it a
110.3(B).
As an inspector I am pretty disappointed in Home Depot for selling
this piece of crap.
Notably missing in that document is any U/L or other NRTL listing.
It is not unusual at those kinds of stores.
Marilyn Manson
Oct 24, 2021, 11:35:32 PM10/24/21
to
comes with the product itself does. So does the fixture as well as the lamp
socket included with the fixture.
I have these two products sitting on the table right in front of me as I type. The
UL symbol is on the boxes, the manuals, the fixtures and the sockets.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Spin-Light-7-in-White-LED-Flush-Mount-Ceiling-Light-Adjustable-PIR-Motion-Sensor-830-Lumens-4000K-Bright-White-54606341/302909226#product-overview
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Spin-Light-5-in-White-LED-Flush-Mount-Ceiling-Light-600-Lumens-4000K-Bright-White-Closet-Basement-Utility-2-Pack-54692141/301583868
I've had at least a half dozen of these "pieces of crap" installed for years without
a single problem. They make great closet lights, utility sink lights, etc. I just bought
the 2 fixtures linked to above for a family member's house.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 25, 2021, 1:03:14 AM10/25/21
to
On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 20:35:29 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
Did you tape the wirenuts? ;-)
trader_4
Oct 25, 2021, 10:47:22 AM10/25/21
to
On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 2:24:34 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
that says to tape the wire nuts. So I'd like to see some examples too.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 25, 2021, 11:43:48 AM10/25/21
to
describe an installation beyond the listing for the product.
This is a screw in replacement for the lamp in a keyless and they
threw in a lamp holder along with instructions of how to trick it up
in a box. Presumably the lamp replacement module is listed and most
lamp holders are listed but it is unclear that the assembly as
described was evaluated.
At any rate it is just a suggestion, not a requirement in the
instructions.
It is also significant that taping wirenuts is not even mentioned in
Home Depot's flagship lines (Hampton Bay) just this chinese thing they
sell.
I do wonder if Commercial Electric Products in Ohio knows they are
using their name.
Marilyn Manson
Oct 25, 2021, 12:14:32 PM10/25/21
to
this piece of crap" statement?
Marilyn Manson
Oct 25, 2021, 12:26:04 PM10/25/21
to
not Commercial Electric. They do, however, "know".
From: https://www.commercialelectric.com/contact-us/
"Note: We are not affiliated with the company named "Commercial Electric"
that sells products at Home Depot."
In fact, one could argue that the name usage issue is the other way around.
On the Commercial Electric Products website they use the Commercial Electric
name:
"Today, Commercial Electric continues to provide our customers with..."
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 25, 2021, 3:21:05 PM10/25/21
to
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 09:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
Not entirely.
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 25, 2021, 3:36:20 PM10/25/21
to
with.
I also question the listing for this being installed in a box the way
they describe. Knowing how the chinese abuse listing marks I might
even question the listing of the lamp replacement module and the lamp
holder they tossed in the box.
Are these at least halogram labels with control numbers?
**************** quoted text
UL marks come in many forms: it might be a label, or it may be
die-stamped, silk-screened or molded into a product. Whichever the
method of application, there are FOUR design elements that need to be
verified to make sure the UL listing is legit:
The UL trademark: the letters “UL” arranged diagonally (descending
left to right) within a circle, with a small ® symbol directly below
the U. If the “UL” letters are level with each other, side by side,
then you're looking at a phony symbol.
The word “listed” printed either below or beside the circle in all
capital letters: LISTED.
A 4-character alphanumeric control number, or a 4 to 6-digit issue
number. In the case of the issue number, it may or may not be preceded
by the phrase “Issue No.” as well as 1 or 2 letters.
A product identity phrase that concisely names what the product
is.
If any of these elements are missing or does not match the
configurations listed above, the UL mark is about as real as Santa
Claus, the Tooth Fairy and Snuffalupagus (sorry kids!
**************** end quote
A common ploy is to use a listed part or two and imply that means the
whole product is listed. Lamps are famous for that. (Listed cord and
lamp holder but not the assembled lamp)
At any rate a suggestion in those instructions is far from a
requirement and I would defer to the manufacturer's instructions for
the wirenuts.
Marilyn Manson
Oct 25, 2021, 4:40:20 PM10/25/21
to
"I do wonder if Commercial Electric Products in Ohio knows they are
using their name."
> I also question the listing for this being installed in a box the way
> they describe. Knowing how the chinese abuse listing marks I might
> even question the listing of the lamp replacement module and the lamp
> holder they tossed in the box.
> Are these at least halogram labels with control numbers?
It would be worrisome to find out that HD is selling bogusly listed devices.
Here's all 4 markings:
https://i.imgur.com/AfZGe7W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LgzCiBs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9c33ote.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/liZxtbV.jpg
incorrect interpretation. It's not 100% clear which manufacturer and which
instructions you are referring to in the 2nd part of the sentence.
One could easily interpret that statement to mean:
"At any rate a suggestion in the instructions that came with the fixture is far
from a requirement and I would defer to the fixture manufacturer's instructions
for the wirenuts."
I'm *guessing* that you mean:
"At any rate a suggestion in the instructions that came with the fixture is far
from a requirement and I would defer to the wirenut manufacturer's instructions
for proper wirenut installation methods."
*That* wording is not open to interpretation. At least I don't think so. ;-)
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 25, 2021, 8:27:38 PM10/25/21
to
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 13:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
They didn't post.
It is real easy to read the instructions as saying "we know you are
unqualified so we can't trust you to properly use a wirenut. Tape the
shit out of it and hope".
unqualified so we can't trust you to properly use a wirenut. Tape the
shit out of it and hope".
Marilyn Manson
Oct 26, 2021, 4:17:30 PM10/26/21
to
Let's try again:
https://i.imgur.com/XNq3Wb5.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/8LV80EF.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/I43m7nD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LguFawk.jpg
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 26, 2021, 11:08:05 PM10/26/21
to
>https://i.imgur.com/XNq3Wb5.jpg?1
Meaningless It doesn't say "listed" and there are no reference numbers
>
>https://i.imgur.com/8LV80EF.jpg?1
Still meaningless. No reference numbers (What is listed?)
>
>https://i.imgur.com/I43m7nD.jpg
That says the screw in part is listed perhaps only when screwed into
an existing keyless. I let my U/L membership lapse, it is expensive,
so I can't look up that particular product.
>
>https://i.imgur.com/LguFawk.jpg
That says the socket is a listed part. Actually better than I would
make out from those instructions.
What they didn't say they evaluated is installing those parts in a
box.
I suppose the AHJ would have to decide if it was legal.
I am OK with it but I have colleagues who might not be. One I can
think of in particular (the City of North Port) would require a permit
and an inspection.
Taped up wirenuts might get you a 110.3(B) violation ;-)
bud--
Oct 27, 2021, 12:14:06 AM10/27/21
to
for a kitchen over-the-stove vent hood that said 75 degree wire
insulation was required and then showed how to connect it with NM/Romex
all of which at that time was rated 60 degrees.
I really don't think UL reads manufacturer's instructions.
Why does tape give you a more "secure connection"?
And wire nuts do a lot more than "cover the wire connections".
gfre...@aol.com
Oct 27, 2021, 12:50:44 AM10/27/21
to
duplicate the intended installation so they can evaluate it.
(Hence 110.3(B))
At least that was their story when I was going to the meetings. :-)
Some of those folks can get a little detached from the real world.
Ralph Mowery
Oct 27, 2021, 9:27:18 AM10/27/21
to
In article <4cmhngl769kl6hri7...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
instructions are often messed up in the translation.
Just about everything now comes with a warning about causing cancer in
California.
gfre...@aol.com says...
>
> The NRTLs are supposed to use the manufacturer's instructions to
> duplicate the intended installation so they can evaluate it.
> (Hence 110.3(B))
> At least that was their story when I was going to the meetings. :-)
> Some of those folks can get a little detached from the real world.
>
>
>
With so many things comming into the US from other countries the
> The NRTLs are supposed to use the manufacturer's instructions to
> duplicate the intended installation so they can evaluate it.
> (Hence 110.3(B))
> At least that was their story when I was going to the meetings. :-)
> Some of those folks can get a little detached from the real world.
>
>
>
instructions are often messed up in the translation.
Just about everything now comes with a warning about causing cancer in
California.
Clare Snyder
Oct 27, 2021, 4:31:51 PM10/27/21
to
cancer - - -
Scott Lurndal
Oct 27, 2021, 6:12:43 PM10/27/21
to
didn't affect the most populous areas.
California has lower cancer rates than much of the rest of the USA.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/cancer_mortality/cancer.htm
Filtering on 2005, the worst is a bunch of deep red states along and east of the mighty
muddy.
(filtering on 2019 instead of 2005 shows the reduction over the last
14 years in cancer mortality nationwide).
It't notable that many of the states with the lowest incidence rates are left of
center or centrist (California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Mexico,
Colorado, Arizona) with Utah the sole exception.
I know, it's radon.
LegionX
Oct 29, 2021, 9:38:12 AM10/29/21
to
Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
your state level license. It doesn't cover the entire country. We
were trained by several TN and VA master level electricians over
the years.
We asked the kingsport city electrical inspector about this
discussion yesterday. He couldn't fail us for using tape on
wirenuts. We confirmed this with the state electrical inspector
on the same day. Perhaps somethings different in Florida? And as
you have shown at least one manufacturer does invite you to use
tape on the wirenuts. As we wrote awhile back in this
thread.
We still invite others who think code is being violated by taping
wirenuts to provide the specific code. The city of kingsport in
TN is on 2017 code.
?Maybe I missed it...what group are you a member of that make
youpart of a "we"?Just curious.> So much more that some >
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitwhopperlie>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-teddybear>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitonduck>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitongoogle>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse1>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse2>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse3>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse4>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse5>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse6>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse7>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse8>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse9>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse10>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse11>
Snit is one f*cked up puppy - who steals our hard earned tax
paying dollars from the government by running a long con for
welfare - who can be reached via telephone - text message - or in
person - by using the publically available contact information
below:
Michael (snit) and Anne Glasser (life-like troll lady)
3181 Willow Dr, Prescott, AZ
86301-4855
1.928.445.3425 or 1-(928)-445-3425
1.928.776.9519 or 1-(928)-776-9519
They are professional Grifters who live on the benefits your hard
earned tax paying dollars provide. Animal abuser = snit pissed on
his own cat!
> On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 1:21:27 AM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message: > > > On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing. > > We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So > it's more than an amateur thing yes.
>Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians
Before you get carried away with the master title note that it's
>Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians
your state level license. It doesn't cover the entire country. We
were trained by several TN and VA master level electricians over
the years.
We asked the kingsport city electrical inspector about this
discussion yesterday. He couldn't fail us for using tape on
wirenuts. We confirmed this with the state electrical inspector
on the same day. Perhaps somethings different in Florida? And as
you have shown at least one manufacturer does invite you to use
tape on the wirenuts. As we wrote awhile back in this
thread.
We still invite others who think code is being violated by taping
wirenuts to provide the specific code. The city of kingsport in
TN is on 2017 code.
?Maybe I missed it...what group are you a member of that make
youpart of a "we"?Just curious.> So much more that some >
manufacturers specifically list taping the wirenuts as the next >
step after applying them. But hey they are just the people who >
make the device. What the fuck do they really know about it. >
Lol.
--
step after applying them. But hey they are just the people who >
make the device. What the fuck do they really know about it. >
Lol.
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitwhopperlie>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-teddybear>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitonduck>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitongoogle>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse1>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse2>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse3>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse4>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse5>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse6>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse7>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse8>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse9>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse10>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse11>
Snit is one f*cked up puppy - who steals our hard earned tax
paying dollars from the government by running a long con for
welfare - who can be reached via telephone - text message - or in
person - by using the publically available contact information
below:
Michael (snit) and Anne Glasser (life-like troll lady)
3181 Willow Dr, Prescott, AZ
86301-4855
1.928.445.3425 or 1-(928)-445-3425
1.928.776.9519 or 1-(928)-776-9519
They are professional Grifters who live on the benefits your hard
earned tax paying dollars provide. Animal abuser = snit pissed on
his own cat!
Marilyn Manson
Oct 29, 2021, 10:47:19 AM10/29/21
to
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 9:38:12 AM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:
> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> > On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 1:21:27 AM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message: > > > On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing. > > We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So > it's more than an amateur thing yes.
>
> >Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians
> Before you get carried away with the master title note that it's
> your state level license. It doesn't cover the entire country. We
> were trained by several TN and VA master level electricians over
> the years.
>
> We asked the kingsport city electrical inspector about this
> discussion yesterday. He couldn't fail us for using tape on
> wirenuts.
"We" asked...
> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> > On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 1:21:27 AM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message: > > > On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-4, honda....@gmail.com wrote:> It was only I who had the (amateur's notion) of taping the wire nut.I don't do it. But I helped with changing a fixture on one of these work projects, and the other guy insisted on taping the wire nuts. He'd worked in one of the local chemical plants and was taught to do it that way. So I guess it's more than an amateur thing. > > We have all been trained by master electricians to do the same. So > it's more than an amateur thing yes.
>
> >Who is the "we" that have "all" been trained by these master electricians
> Before you get carried away with the master title note that it's
> your state level license. It doesn't cover the entire country. We
> were trained by several TN and VA master level electricians over
> the years.
>
> We asked the kingsport city electrical inspector about this
> discussion yesterday. He couldn't fail us for using tape on
> wirenuts.
> We confirmed this with the state electrical inspector
> on the same day.
> Perhaps somethings different in Florida? And as
> you have shown at least one manufacturer does invite you to use
> tape on the wirenuts. As we wrote awhile back in this thread.
>
> We still invite others who think code is being violated by taping
> wirenuts to provide the specific code. The city of kingsport in
> TN is on 2017 code.
My question seems to have gone unanswered...
What group are you a member of that makes you part of a "we"?
Who is this "we" that you keep mentioning?
LegionX
Oct 29, 2021, 4:43:04 PM10/29/21
to
>"We" still invite...My question seems to have gone unanswered...What group are you a member of that makes you part of a "we"?
HHI
>Who is this "we" that you keep mentioning?
We assumed (we really need to stop doing that - especially here)
that our chosen posting handle was clear enough. Evidently that
isn't the case. Several of us post with the same account and
hardware hence the "we" and our chosen posting handle or
nym.
HHI
>Who is this "we" that you keep mentioning?
that our chosen posting handle was clear enough. Evidently that
isn't the case. Several of us post with the same account and
hardware hence the "we" and our chosen posting handle or
nym.
Marilyn Manson
Oct 30, 2021, 11:40:18 AM10/30/21
to
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 4:43:04 PM UTC-4, LegionX wrote:
> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> >"We" still invite...My question seems to have gone unanswered...What group are you a member of that makes you part of a "we"?
>
> HHI
> >Who is this "we" that you keep mentioning?
> We assumed (we really need to stop doing that - especially here)
> that our chosen posting handle was clear enough. Evidently that
> isn't the case. Several of us post with the same account and
> hardware hence the "we" and our chosen posting handle or
> nym.
I see. So I did a search on LegionX. Which one of these guys are you?
> Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> >"We" still invite...My question seems to have gone unanswered...What group are you a member of that makes you part of a "we"?
>
> HHI
> >Who is this "we" that you keep mentioning?
> We assumed (we really need to stop doing that - especially here)
> that our chosen posting handle was clear enough. Evidently that
> isn't the case. Several of us post with the same account and
> hardware hence the "we" and our chosen posting handle or
> nym.
https://www.google.com/search?q=LegionX&tbm=isch
LegionX
Nov 14, 2021, 12:08:16 AM11/14/21
to
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>Cite that? Is it in the UL white book or is it in the instructions for the wirenuts?
It's in the instructions included with the device. An example is
provided here:
Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
https://ibb.co/qkKq717
>Lemme guess, you are a homeowner who bought a DIY book.
We are several electricians who read the installation instructions
provided with the device the client has often purchased on their
own.
Instructions like these for example:
Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
https://ibb.co/qkKq717
>Cite that? Is it in the UL white book or is it in the instructions for the wirenuts?
It's in the instructions included with the device. An example is
provided here:
Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
https://ibb.co/qkKq717
>Lemme guess, you are a homeowner who bought a DIY book.
We are several electricians who read the installation instructions
provided with the device the client has often purchased on their
own.
Instructions like these for example:
Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
https://ibb.co/qkKq717
LegionX
Nov 14, 2021, 12:10:03 AM11/14/21
to
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not adding a step like using tape.
You are wrong.
>The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not adding a step like using tape.
You are wrong.
LegionX
Nov 14, 2021, 12:12:54 AM11/14/21
to
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>Which companies are that. It certainly isn't Hunter (fans)
>Give us some examples.
Another poster provided you a light fixture example. We have
provided a fan.
>Which companies are that. It certainly isn't Hunter (fans)
Another poster provided you a light fixture example. We have
provided a fan.
LegionX
Nov 14, 2021, 12:15:27 AM11/14/21
to
>I've never seen install instructions for any fixture, fan, appliance, etcthat says to tape the wire nuts. So I'd like to see some examples too.
And another poster already provided a light fixture which includes
instructions telling you to use tape. We have provided yet
another. A known fan manufacturer.
We would question your field experience since you've stated that
you've never encountered such instructions.
And another poster already provided a light fixture which includes
instructions telling you to use tape. We have provided yet
another. A known fan manufacturer.
We would question your field experience since you've stated that
you've never encountered such instructions.
LegionX
Nov 14, 2021, 12:35:55 AM11/14/21
to
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
It seems that we aren't alone in thinking you could possibly fail
on a 110.3(b) if you do not tape the wirenuts when the device
manufacturer installation instructions wrote for you to do so.
Otherwise we aren't sure how you can violate on that because
someone provided additional insulation and protection to the
connection by using tape after the wirenuts were
installed?
https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/taped-wirenuts.43677/page-2
It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
Your interpretation of code 110.3(b) appears to be in error. It
would be a violation of that code not to install device according
to device manufacturer (not wirenut manufacturer)
>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
It seems that we aren't alone in thinking you could possibly fail
on a 110.3(b) if you do not tape the wirenuts when the device
manufacturer installation instructions wrote for you to do so.
Otherwise we aren't sure how you can violate on that because
someone provided additional insulation and protection to the
connection by using tape after the wirenuts were
installed?
https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/taped-wirenuts.43677/page-2
It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
Your interpretation of code 110.3(b) appears to be in error. It
would be a violation of that code not to install device according
to device manufacturer (not wirenut manufacturer)
TimR
Nov 14, 2021, 8:18:40 AM11/14/21
to
On Sunday, November 14, 2021 at 12:35:55 AM UTC-5, LegionX wrote:
>
> It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
> taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
> amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
>
In Europe wire nuts are not a legal connection method. Putting tape on them, especially in the instructions, tends to reinforce the idea they are an inferior method.
>
> It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
> taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
> amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
>
I don't really see what good tape does - if the wire nut is installed correctly there is no need, and if the connection is bad I don''t see how the tape adds anything. The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
trader_4
Nov 14, 2021, 9:25:17 AM11/14/21
to
fixtures and appliances, eg lights, fans, dishwashers, ovens, in multiple
homes. I never encountered instructions to tape wire nuts, clearly instructions
saying to tape are a small percentage and it's unnecessary. BTW,
posting a link to the install instructions would have been far more
meaningful than posting a picture of the cover.
trader_4
Nov 14, 2021, 9:34:44 AM11/14/21
to
from contacting something conductive. The question is if a wire does come loose,
what is the likelihood of it pulling so far out of the wire nut that it can do that
and how often that occurs. Clearly the industry, NEC authorities, etc don't
think it's an issue, otherwise tape would be required. And that presumably is
based on all the accumulated knowledge of what electricians actually see in
the field. Besides that, wires can always come loose. Yet backstabbed
receptacles and switches are allowed. Screws can come loose too, yet
there is no code requirement to wrap those either.
Ralph Mowery
Nov 14, 2021, 10:23:57 AM11/14/21
to
In article <ba7a975b-3b76-4438...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...
equipment and lighting. Hard telling how many boxes of wire nuts I
have installed from small wire about 22 gauge up to 10 gauge or larger.
Almost none of them have any tape on the wire nuts. Sometimes there
will be some tape on the wire nuts on equipment and motors that viberate
a lot. Probably not needed but sometimes it is done just for added piece
of mind.
The instructions on the boxes of wire nuts we use say to lay the wires
parallel to each other then twist the wire nut on. No twisting or
tapeing of the wire nut is mentioned.
Maybe the home owner wire nuts are poor quality and they may need the
tape. Could be the compay thinks the home owner does not know how to use
the wire nuts and thinks the tape will help.
tra...@optonline.net says...
>
> Presumably the idea is that if a wire does come loose, then the tape will prevent it
> from contacting something conductive. The question is if a wire does come loose,
> what is the likelihood of it pulling so far out of the wire nut that it can do that
> and how often that occurs. Clearly the industry, NEC authorities, etc don't
> think it's an issue, otherwise tape would be required. And that presumably is
> based on all the accumulated knowledge of what electricians actually see in
> the field. Besides that, wires can always come loose. Yet backstabbed
> receptacles and switches are allowed. Screws can come loose too, yet
> there is no code requirement to wrap those either.
>
>
The company I worked for had tens of thousands of wire nuts on the
> Presumably the idea is that if a wire does come loose, then the tape will prevent it
> from contacting something conductive. The question is if a wire does come loose,
> what is the likelihood of it pulling so far out of the wire nut that it can do that
> and how often that occurs. Clearly the industry, NEC authorities, etc don't
> think it's an issue, otherwise tape would be required. And that presumably is
> based on all the accumulated knowledge of what electricians actually see in
> the field. Besides that, wires can always come loose. Yet backstabbed
> receptacles and switches are allowed. Screws can come loose too, yet
> there is no code requirement to wrap those either.
>
>
equipment and lighting. Hard telling how many boxes of wire nuts I
have installed from small wire about 22 gauge up to 10 gauge or larger.
Almost none of them have any tape on the wire nuts. Sometimes there
will be some tape on the wire nuts on equipment and motors that viberate
a lot. Probably not needed but sometimes it is done just for added piece
of mind.
The instructions on the boxes of wire nuts we use say to lay the wires
parallel to each other then twist the wire nut on. No twisting or
tapeing of the wire nut is mentioned.
Maybe the home owner wire nuts are poor quality and they may need the
tape. Could be the compay thinks the home owner does not know how to use
the wire nuts and thinks the tape will help.
trader_4
Nov 14, 2021, 12:30:43 PM11/14/21
to
the chances of any claims from homeowners. Likely they figure a lot of homeowner's
won't get the wire nuts on right.
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 1:05:22 PM11/14/21
to
On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 00:09:57 -0500 (EST), LegionX
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>
>>The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not adding a step like using tape.
>
>You are wrong.
>
>Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
>https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
>
>https://ibb.co/qkKq717
Harbor Breeze is not a wire nut manufacturer.
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>
>>The thing to note is all of the manufacturers are simplifying the installation procedures to make it go faster. They are certainly not adding a step like using tape.
>
>You are wrong.
>
>Harbor breeze fan wirenuts
>https://ibb.co/nfLPpzD
>
>https://ibb.co/qkKq717
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 1:19:16 PM11/14/21
to
On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 00:35:48 -0500 (EST), LegionX
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>
>>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
>
>It seems that we aren't alone in thinking you could possibly fail
> on a 110.3(b) if you do not tape the wirenuts when the device
> manufacturer installation instructions wrote for you to do so.
> Otherwise we aren't sure how you can violate on that because
> someone provided additional insulation and protection to the
> connection by using tape after the wirenuts were
> installed?
>
>https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/taped-wirenuts.43677/page-2
>
>It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
> taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
> amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
>
>
That is a forum and anyone with an opinion can post, just like here.
<MichaelAnd...@griftersconjobsllc.com> wrote:
>gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:
>
>>I have even heard of inspectors who fail it on a 110.3(B).
>
>It seems that we aren't alone in thinking you could possibly fail
> on a 110.3(b) if you do not tape the wirenuts when the device
> manufacturer installation instructions wrote for you to do so.
> Otherwise we aren't sure how you can violate on that because
> someone provided additional insulation and protection to the
> connection by using tape after the wirenuts were
> installed?
>
>https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/taped-wirenuts.43677/page-2
>
>It appears based on that forum which wasn't chosen at random that
> taping wirenuts occurs for a variety of reasons and it's not an
> amateur hour only thing as you've been led to believe.
>
>
>Your interpretation of code 110.3(b) appears to be in error. It
> would be a violation of that code not to install device according
> to device manufacturer (not wirenut manufacturer)
> instructions.
Don't come out to play with the adults using your kindergarten
electrical skills.
To be a 110.3(B) it needs to be a "requirement" from the
"manufacturer" of that particular product, not a "suggestion" from a
3d party.
By a like token, no manufacturer "requires" the anti oxidant on
aluminum connectors although a few "suggest" it.
Suggestions are not enforceable.
Field experience?
I have been a licensed commercial and residential electrical inspector
for 26 years. Certified IAEI, ICBO and SBCCI.
If you want to tape them up, go for it. I really don't give a shit any
more.
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 1:38:49 PM11/14/21
to
they make installation as simple as possible, not harder.
You see none of these "suggestions" in enforceable code.
They also push their products so you will see some things get put into
the code before a product even exists and some questionable things get
listed that make us shake our heads. They are usually things that make
installation faster like the old back stab devices. Even the good old
wire nut is being replaced by stab connectors like the wago. Now Ideal
and GD are making them.
I guess Legion would tape them up too. No real electrician ever would.
It is all about seconds per splice to them. That is the point of the
more expensive device. Time is more valuable than money.
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 1:41:20 PM11/14/21
to
I see HD (Hampton Bay) even goes as far as saying you should hire an
electrician to install a fan. Strange advice from a do it yourself
store but I bet a lawyer decided it.
Ralph Mowery
Nov 14, 2021, 3:39:10 PM11/14/21
to
In article <vrk2pgljbpia800pd...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
leaver to pull up then slide the wire in and push the lever down.
I bought a box of them to see what they were but have not used any
except for a radio that I needed to be able to disconnect the power cord
inside the cabinet. It is only about a 3 amp 120 volt device.
I also bought a box of the ones you push the wire in for low current
things like the lights with ballasts. Don't think I have used any of
those either. I would not want to use those for anything over an amp or
two, just my opinion.
gfre...@aol.com says...
>
> They also push their products so you will see some things get put into
> the code before a product even exists and some questionable things get
> listed that make us shake our heads. They are usually things that make
> installation faster like the old back stab devices. Even the good old
> wire nut is being replaced by stab connectors like the wago. Now Ideal
> and GD are making them.
>
>
What is your take on the WAGO Lever connectors ? The ones that have a
> They also push their products so you will see some things get put into
> the code before a product even exists and some questionable things get
> listed that make us shake our heads. They are usually things that make
> installation faster like the old back stab devices. Even the good old
> wire nut is being replaced by stab connectors like the wago. Now Ideal
> and GD are making them.
>
>
leaver to pull up then slide the wire in and push the lever down.
I bought a box of them to see what they were but have not used any
except for a radio that I needed to be able to disconnect the power cord
inside the cabinet. It is only about a 3 amp 120 volt device.
I also bought a box of the ones you push the wire in for low current
things like the lights with ballasts. Don't think I have used any of
those either. I would not want to use those for anything over an amp or
two, just my opinion.
Dean Hoffman
Nov 14, 2021, 4:16:58 PM11/14/21
to
reuse them.
<https://www.cesco.com/Ideal-30-310-Ideal-30-310-Model-10-Set-Screw-Wire-Nut-Connector-22-16-AWG-600-Volt-Brass-Flame-Retardant-Polypropylene-Black-Brass-1000-Carton/p2113916>
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 4:42:54 PM11/14/21
to
question on any of them is what they will be like in 50 years, a
common estimate for an installation life although there are plenty of
occupied buildings much older than that right now. My ex's house is 50
and this one is closer to 60.
Ralph Mowery
Nov 14, 2021, 5:00:20 PM11/14/21
to
In article <li03pgl434cg3hhlh...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...
out of was built in 1965. That was about 15 years ago so it was 40 when
I moved out. It was a single story brick house.
Lots of schools are probably older than that.
A Jr high I went to was built around 1962 and I was in the 2nd or 3 rd
class to go there. It is still in operation. Same as 4 high schools
that were built the same time.
gfre...@aol.com says...
>
> The lever ones are better than the pure push in. I suppose the
> question on any of them is what they will be like in 50 years, a
> common estimate for an installation life although there are plenty of
> occupied buildings much older than that right now. My ex's house is 50
> and this one is closer to 60.
>
>
Yea, 50 years is not that old for a house now. The last house I moved
> The lever ones are better than the pure push in. I suppose the
> question on any of them is what they will be like in 50 years, a
> common estimate for an installation life although there are plenty of
> occupied buildings much older than that right now. My ex's house is 50
> and this one is closer to 60.
>
>
out of was built in 1965. That was about 15 years ago so it was 40 when
I moved out. It was a single story brick house.
Lots of schools are probably older than that.
A Jr high I went to was built around 1962 and I was in the 2nd or 3 rd
class to go there. It is still in operation. Same as 4 high schools
that were built the same time.
Clare Snyder
Nov 14, 2021, 5:08:34 PM11/14/21
to
consider it OLD!! My brother's house ai about 87 years old - yes, I
consider it old. The house I grew up in was over 80 years old when Dad
bought it in 1957 - and it is no longer (demolished and replaced with
a set of semis about 5 years ago)
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 7:30:44 PM11/14/21
to
you are really not supposed to reuse regular wire nuts. I doubt a
contractor will spring for the extra cost and labor to use these in
general construction.
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 14, 2021, 7:44:22 PM11/14/21
to
Hospital in Arcadia used to be a WWII Army Air base. The Ca D Zan in
Sarasota was built in 1926. Both still had most of the original
wiring. One of the things I did in Arcadia was a grounding integrity
test on the conduit systems. It was surprisingly good. All came in at
less that 1 ohm from neutral to ground and I didn't find any
regrounded neutrals. They added the redundant ground necessary for
patient care areas.
LegionX
Nov 16, 2021, 11:52:48 PM11/16/21
to
>The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut. Tug test. If
passes you're good if one or more wires moves or actually comes
out you fail. Do it again using a fresh wirenut if you must use
them.
We suspect the idea of ideals pushin connectors instead of
wirenuts whenever possible would also result in a discussion like
this one? We never have problems with them. Much faster you know
each wire is firmly landed and isn't going to part ways with the
others easily. Didn't see max current rating on the jug at the
supply house but they are rated for 600volts (1000volts in a
specific case) and will accept a number ten wire. We're confident
ideal knows such gauge wire is rated at 30amps.
We haven't cooked one during our own experiments either. And we
have held them at 22 to 25 amps for a long period of time. No
melting no running hot. Etc.
They're more costly than wirenuts but the time saved can make up
for the cost.
TimR
Nov 17, 2021, 7:22:34 AM11/17/21
to
On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 11:52:48 PM UTC-5, LegionX wrote:
> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> >The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
> Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut.
I always pretwist stranded because if you just lay them parallel you can catch a couple strands on the wire and not know it.
> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> >The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
> Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut.
But solid I think is safer not twisted. I think the wire nut grips better, and depending how thick your wire is it isn't always easy to get a clean twist. Just how I do it, not sure there's any code requirement. I do take care that the solid wires are exactly the same length and in contact the whole stripped part.
Elle N
Nov 17, 2021, 10:19:19 AM11/17/21
to
For the record, I read all the comments to date. I am enjoying them for their educational value, and because I can implement 'best practices.' Thank you.
gfre...@aol.com
Nov 17, 2021, 11:13:56 AM11/17/21
to
the bundle. The main advantage of twisting solid is it holds stuff
together while you are screwing on the wirenut. That is handy if you
are in an awkward position. Make the stripped part long, twist it and
cut it off at the proper length. Then you know they are all the same
length. Just don't be stingy with the length of wire on the rough so
you have plenty to work with.
Scott Lurndal
Nov 17, 2021, 1:29:48 PM11/17/21
to
gfre...@aol.com writes:
>On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 04:22:30 -0800 (PST), TimR
><timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 11:52:48 PM UTC-5, LegionX wrote:
>>> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>> >The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
>>> Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut.
>>
>>I always pretwist stranded because if you just lay them parallel you can catch a couple strands on the wire and not know it.
>>
>>But solid I think is safer not twisted. I think the wire nut grips better, and depending how thick your wire is it isn't always easy to get a clean twist. Just how I do it, not sure there's any code requirement. I do take care that the solid wires are exactly the same length and in contact the whole stripped part.
>
>The instructions with wire nuts suggest "leading" stranded wire around
>the bundle.
Doesn't everyone use modern connectors? I favor these:
>On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 04:22:30 -0800 (PST), TimR
><timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 11:52:48 PM UTC-5, LegionX wrote:
>>> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>> >The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clean connection or not.
>>> Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut.
>>
>>I always pretwist stranded because if you just lay them parallel you can catch a couple strands on the wire and not know it.
>>
>>But solid I think is safer not twisted. I think the wire nut grips better, and depending how thick your wire is it isn't always easy to get a clean twist. Just how I do it, not sure there's any code requirement. I do take care that the solid wires are exactly the same length and in contact the whole stripped part.
>
>The instructions with wire nuts suggest "leading" stranded wire around
>the bundle.
https://www.wago.com/us/c/wire-splicing-connectors
Marilyn Manson
Nov 17, 2021, 6:09:24 PM11/17/21
to
Do they? Or do they pack in better/neater?
I know that Alumicons take up a little more room.
https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/0869e029-020e-43f1-89dc-54ff9c58f454/svn/alumiconn-wire-connectors-wire-terminals-95110-44_600.jpg
Ralph Mowery
Nov 17, 2021, 6:28:52 PM11/17/21
to
In article <ed6cde09-1c9e-4cdd...@googlegroups.com>,
comawhit...@gmail.com says...
how many wires are being connected. It takes very little more room to
connect 3 or 4 wires with a wire nut. Each wire must be put under a
seperate leaver hole on the walnuts.
comawhit...@gmail.com says...
>
> > https://www.wago.com/us/c/wire-splicing-connectors
>
> They seem (just based on a picture) that they take up more room than wire nuts.
>
> Do they? Or do they pack in better/neater?
>
>
They do taks up some more room than the wire nuts. Then it depends on
> > https://www.wago.com/us/c/wire-splicing-connectors
>
> They seem (just based on a picture) that they take up more room than wire nuts.
>
> Do they? Or do they pack in better/neater?
>
>
how many wires are being connected. It takes very little more room to
connect 3 or 4 wires with a wire nut. Each wire must be put under a
seperate leaver hole on the walnuts.
Marilyn Manson
Nov 17, 2021, 7:09:20 PM11/17/21
to
Of course, I don't mind giving up some room when making something
safer, like re-doing an aluminum to copper wire nut connection.
Scott Lurndal
Nov 17, 2021, 8:08:08 PM11/17/21
to
Marilyn Manson <comawhit...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:48 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> gfre...@aol.com writes:=20
>On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:29:48 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 04:22:30 -0800 (PST), TimR=20
>> ><timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:=20
>> >=20
>> >>On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 11:52:48 PM UTC-5, LegionX wrote:=20
>> >>> TimR <timoth...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:=20
>> >>> >The problem is it isn't easy for an amateur to know if he got a clea=
>n connection or not.=20
>> >>> Strip and pretwist. Apply proper sized wirenut.=20
>> >>=20
>> >>I always pretwist stranded because if you just lay them parallel you ca=
>n catch a couple strands on the wire and not know it.=20
>> >>=20
>> >>But solid I think is safer not twisted. I think the wire nut grips bett=
>er, and depending how thick your wire is it isn't always easy to get a clea=
>n twist. Just how I do it, not sure there's any code requirement. I do take=
> care that the solid wires are exactly the same length and in contact the w=
>hole stripped part.=20
>> >=20
>> >The instructions with wire nuts suggest "leading" stranded wire around=
>=20
>> >the bundle.
>> Doesn't everyone use modern connectors? I favor these:=20
>>=20
>> https://www.wago.com/us/c/wire-splicing-connectors
>
>They seem (just based on a picture) that they take up more room than wire n=
>uts.
>
>Do they? Or do they pack in better/neater?=20
I don't find them to take more space than wirenuts generally since
you have more flexibility in how the wires enter the connector,
so you can make the job much neater - you don't need to group
the wires being connected as tightly as you would with a wirenut.
And much faster - time is money.
They're actually not much larger than a wirenut anyway. There
are variants such as the ideal sure-push connectors which work
well with solid and tinned wire, although I prefer the wago's for stranded THHN.
Marilyn Manson
Nov 19, 2021, 4:30:44 PM11/19/21
to
when the kids buy a house, helping a friend upgrade a bathroom, etc.
I'll pay extra for ease of installation (e.g. a SharkBite here or there
instead of hauling my sweating kit around. That type of thing.)
If these devices are easier to work with and don't take up anymore
room in older (read: smaller) boxes, then I'll pay extra.
>
> They're actually not much larger than a wirenut anyway. There
> are variants such as the ideal sure-push connectors which work
> well with solid and tinned wire, although I prefer the wago's for
stranded THHN.
you can't get them apart. I helped a friend install a fancy dancy exhaust
fan with wireless control, BT speakers, etc. It had a push pin connector
for the power wiring. When we couldn't get the wireless switch to pair
with the fan, I couldn't do any basic trouble shooting without cutting the
wires at the push block. If I did that, the push block would have been
unusable and there wasn't enough wire beyond the block to wire nut
the source wires to.
In the end, he said "cut it off, I'll just go buy a new fan." In the end, it
turned out the fan was bad, so cutting the wires was the only way
to uninstall it anyway.
Ralph Mowery
Nov 19, 2021, 6:18:33 PM11/19/21
to
In article <d09e27e2-0146-4813...@googlegroups.com>,
comawhit...@gmail.com says...
Sharkbite may cost a lot more than a sweat connection,but with plumbers
costing for $ 50 to $ 100 an hour you often save a bunch in labor.
Then if you are doing it for yourself you may just want to take the easy
way out.
I have not tried it,but the push in connectors I have state you can
twist and pull the solid wire out,but to cut the stranded wire and bet a
new connector. I do have some with a leaver on them that lets you reuse
the connector many times.
comawhit...@gmail.com says...
>
> Not always. I don't get paid for most of the stuff I do. It's family stuff
> when the kids buy a house, helping a friend upgrade a bathroom, etc.
>
> I'll pay extra for ease of installation (e.g. a SharkBite here or there
> instead of hauling my sweating kit around. That type of thing.)
>
> If these devices are easier to work with and don't take up anymore
> room in older (read: smaller) boxes, then I'll pay extra
>
Often it is less expensive to buy the more expensive connectors. The
> Not always. I don't get paid for most of the stuff I do. It's family stuff
> when the kids buy a house, helping a friend upgrade a bathroom, etc.
>
> I'll pay extra for ease of installation (e.g. a SharkBite here or there
> instead of hauling my sweating kit around. That type of thing.)
>
> If these devices are easier to work with and don't take up anymore
> room in older (read: smaller) boxes, then I'll pay extra
>
Sharkbite may cost a lot more than a sweat connection,but with plumbers
costing for $ 50 to $ 100 an hour you often save a bunch in labor.
Then if you are doing it for yourself you may just want to take the easy
way out.
I have not tried it,but the push in connectors I have state you can
twist and pull the solid wire out,but to cut the stranded wire and bet a
new connector. I do have some with a leaver on them that lets you reuse
the connector many times.
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