Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

[(PeteCresswell)]

It's been about five days since I first sprayed some poison ivy with
Roundup - with a touch up application yesterday.

I'm not seeing any signs of distress in the stuff.

OTOH, 3 days on crab grass and the stuff is clearly dead or on the way.

Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?

If so, what timeframe?
--
Pete Cresswell

[notbob]

On 2015-07-28, (PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:

> Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?

It should be outlawed and all of Monsanto prosecuted for crimes
against nature.

nb

[Oren]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 11:04:58 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

There is and old thread here were a poster added another chemical to
the RU and it killed the PI. bhaller, maybe? RU alone would not kill
it, iirc.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Aren't there various varieties of "RoundUp" -- for different weeds?

We don't have poison ivy, but we have poison sumac, and a weedkiller
specifically labeled as being for poison ivy, oak, sumac, etc. (don't
recall the brand or name) leaves our poison sumac looking very ill after
only a couple of hours.

Use the correct product for the job at hand.

Perce

[Dan Espen]

I tried and tried and got no where with regular Roundup.
I applied it directly on the leaves which showed some distress but the
plant kept on growing.

So, I just checked Home Depot and found Roundup for Poison Ivy.
and Ortho for Poison Ivy. I bought the Ortho brand.
It's a little early to be sure, but I think it's working.

So, I can report regular Roundup doesn't work.
I expect something Poison Ivy specific has a better chance.

--
Dan Espen

[taxed and spent]

"Dan Espen" <des...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:mp871t$95o$1...@dont-email.me...

a combination of glyphosate and triclopyr is marketed for poison ivy

[Nil]

On 28 Jul 2015, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in
alt.home.repair:

> Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?

I had rampant poison ivy in my yard when I bought the house. I
physically pulled most of it out and treated the rest with a brush
killer (it might have been a Roundup brand product.) I seem to recall
trying regular Roundup but it wasn't very effective. The brush killer
worked very quickly, like within a day.

P.S. - I haven't seen any more poison ivy back there for many years.
However, I saw a couple of sprigs poking up this summer. I killed them,
but it reminds me that the stuff may never totally go away.

[Uncle Monster]

Why would you want to kill that hot female super villain who vexes Batman? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Poison Monster

[Moe DeLoughan]

Most retail versions of Roundup are too dilute to effectively control
brushy and woody plants. You need a minimum 41% concentrate of Roundup
to handle them, and that gets expensive. Another highly effective
herbicide for woody plants including poison ivy is triclopyr. Read
your labels and buy the strongest concentration you can find.

[dpb]

On 07/28/2015 10:04 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> It's been about five days since I first sprayed some poison ivy with
> Roundup - with a touch up application yesterday.
>
> I'm not seeing any signs of distress in the stuff.

...

> Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?

...

If you got a 2% solution on the leaves and it was/is actively growing,
glyphosate should work but by itself it isn't as effective as some other
combinatorics...

<http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/pests/weeds/hgic2307.html>

The guy talking about using concentrate is mostly wrong, btw...the
concentrates are all intended to be diluted before use; the only part he
got right is "read the label".

--

[TimR]

I've been using regular Roundup on poison ivy for years. In my yard and surrounding area (I like to keep a buffer zone) it works fine.

I mix mine from an old bottle of concentrate that's been in the shed since I got the house. I don't make it super strong, just the normal mix.

[trader_4]

I don't know about 2%, I typically mix it at about 4% and it kills
poison ivy. Since Pete is having a problem, I'd mix it at 4%+.
If you read the directions, to kill tougher weeds, they call for
higher concentrations, up to about 6% I think.

If you're using the stuff, you can get the ~48% concentrate for about
$65 for a 2.5 gallon jug. That's orders of magnitude better than
buying it pre-mixed or even the concentrate at HD, etc. That's for
the generic glyphosate with a sticking additive included.

There are also brush killers that are more effective against that
type of stuff too.

[Ralph Mowery]

"trader_4" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:33db2b28-1acc-4945...@googlegroups.com...

>> If you got a 2% solution on the leaves and it was/is actively growing,
>> glyphosate should work but by itself it isn't as effective as some other
>> combinatorics...
>>
>> <http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/pests/weeds/hgic2307.html>
>>
>> The guy talking about using concentrate is mostly wrong, btw...the
>> concentrates are all intended to be diluted before use; the only part he
>> got right is "read the label".
>>
>> --
>
> I don't know about 2%, I typically mix it at about 4% and it kills
> poison ivy. Since Pete is having a problem, I'd mix it at 4%+.
> If you read the directions, to kill tougher weeds, they call for
> higher concentrations, up to about 6% I think.
>
> If you're using the stuff, you can get the ~48% concentrate for about
> $65 for a 2.5 gallon jug. That's orders of magnitude better than
> buying it pre-mixed or even the concentrate at HD, etc. That's for
> the generic glyphosate with a sticking additive included.
>
> There are also brush killers that are more effective against that
> type of stuff too.

I have used regular Roundup and some generic roundup with an added chemical
or two that work well. I think the wetting or sticking additive is
important to the poison ivy. Without it the chemicals tend to run off the
leaves. The chemicals are absorbed by the leaves mainly so spray them and
not the ground around the plants.

YOu need to look at the concentration on the jug. Many of them are made to
be deluted and often the lesser concentrations will cost more to make a
given ammount of than the higher concentrations.

[bob haller]

years ago i had a bad poision ivy problem, poision ivy killer just made it wilt for a few days, same with roundup, just wilted then it came back stronger than ever.

so at the suggestion of someonehere i mixed roundup 50 / 50withpoision ivy killer.

i amost felt bad for the poision ivy, they just rolled up and died, i felt like a mass murderer...

do note mixing breaks some federal law, but going to my doc for pision ivy is worse.

the chemicals are absorbed thru the leafs.

so dont trim or pull the plants just spray the leafs for max kill.

and DONT BURN THE DEAD BRUSH! you can get poision ivy in your lungs..

[Jon Danniken]

On 07/28/2015 08:04 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>
> Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?

My country friends use Crossbow for poison oak here in Western Oregon, I
would imagine it would also work for poison ivy. Looking at the label
it appears to be a mix of triclopyr and 2,4-D.

http://www.dowagro.com/en-us/usag/product-solution-finder/herbicides/crossbow

Jon

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 11:04:58 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

Roundup alone is not terribly effective on poison ivy because of the
oiliness of the leaves. You need a good surfactant mixed with the
roundup. Some people use a bit of dish soap in the mix - some a few
tablespoons of diesel fuel. I know the diesel fuel works. Generally
knocks it back pretty good in about 3 or 4 days.

[bob haller]

O
> >If so, what timeframe?
> Roundup alone is not terribly effective on poison ivy because of the
> oiliness of the leaves. You need a good surfactant mixed with the
> roundup. Some people use a bit of dish soap in the mix - some a few
> tablespoons of diesel fuel. I know the diesel fuel works. Generally
> knocks it back pretty good in about 3 or 4 days.

roundup mixed 50 / 50 with poision ivy killer, it will be dying by the next morning, its amazingly effective

[gregz]

Must be GMO ivy.

Greg

[jimmy]

Yup, glyphosphate resistant weeds, more proof that organisms improve themselves over time.

Evolutionism 1
Creationism 0

[TimR]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 9:06:41 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
> O

>
> roundup mixed 50 / 50 with poision ivy killer, it will be dying by the next morning, its amazingly effective

I haven't tried that mix, but, do you really want it dying by next morning? If it's really toxic it kills the leaves before it gets into the system. I want it absorbed by the leaves, and spread to kill the whole plant, and usually that takes a bit more time.

[bob haller]

trust me 50/50 roundup/ poision ivy killer really works when nothing else did

I even called a lanscaper who said the killing stuff consumers can buy doesnt work. but the pros can use this.

he wanted to kill everything on that hillside, which would of been ok, except my mom planted some of it a couple years before she died, so i like keeping those around...

[bob haller]

the leaves were rolling up the next morning and within a few days the plants were totally dead.

i left the remains because i react a lot to poision ivy, and need steroids which make me very ill.

no poision ivy grew back, although i did notice one plant i missed, i murdered it too:)

just try it IT WORKS!:)

[Edmund J. Burke]

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
news:ic6frad3c23prh6nn...@4ax.com...

Oh for Pete's Sake!
LOL

[Caecilius]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 06:28:10 -0700, "Edmund J. Burke"
<burk...@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
>news:ic6frad3c23prh6nn...@4ax.com...
>
>It's been about five days since I first sprayed some poison ivy with
>Roundup - with a touch up application yesterday.
>
>I'm not seeing any signs of distress in the stuff.
>
>OTOH, 3 days on crab grass and the stuff is clearly dead or on the way.
>
>Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?
>
>If so, what timeframe?

I've found that glyphosate does kill ivy, but it takes longer and
often needs a few applications. I suspect this is partly due to the
waxy leaves, so maybe a bit of a seeing to with a strimmer first might
help.

I bought a 5 litre container of clinic ace 360 g/l which lasts for
ages at the correct dilution. Much cheaper than roundup and just as
effective.

[Edmund J. Burke]

"Caecilius" wrote in message
news:ub3iradjed1mlsjii...@4ax.com...

I've found that glyphosate does kill ivy, but it takes longer and
often needs a few applications. I suspect this is partly due to the
waxy leaves, so maybe a bit of a seeing to with a strimmer first might
help.

I bought a 5 litre container of clinic ace 360 g/l which lasts for
ages at the correct dilution. Much cheaper than roundup and just as
effective.

You can't use that in the America's, you fusking asshole!

[J Burns]

On 7/28/15 11:04 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> It's been about five days since I first sprayed some poison ivy with
> Roundup - with a touch up application yesterday.
>
> I'm not seeing any signs of distress in the stuff.
>
> OTOH, 3 days on crab grass and the stuff is clearly dead or on the way.
>
> Bottom Line: Should Roundup be effective against poison ivy?
>
> If so, what timeframe?
>

My neighbor likes me to spray Lowes glyphosate with surfacant along
buildings and fences. I want it to work fast because she'll get antsy
and want me to use a string trimmer. You can't argue with a woman.

Typically, the effect isn't visible on most plants in 3 days. It's
quite visible in a week. The other day I noticed the brown leaves of
poison ivy I'd sprayed at her place.

At my place, I don't bother to spray poison ivy. It's easier to snip
with hedge shears. If it comes back, I snip again. Glyphosate is good
for the kind of plants that would come back quickly and persistently.

I first used glyphosate on poison ivy about 1983, at the farm. It was a
patch covering hundreds of square feet. Spraying worked fine. When I
sprayed a patch a few years later, I saw no effect after a week. Maybe
it wasn't growing when I sprayed.

I've never had trouble attacking poison ivy with a string trimmer. Maybe
it happens too fast for the plant to bleed.

[bob haller]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 7:21:18 PM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
> On 7/28/15 11:04 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> > It's been about five days since I first sprayed some poison ivy with
> > Roundup - with a touch up application yesterday.
> >
> > I'm not seeing any signs of distress in the stuff.

mix 50 / 50 round up with poision ivy killer. that works fast and is 100% effective.

heck i kinda felt bad for the poision ivy.

the plant is actually attractive, if it wasnt for the itch:(

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

bob haller <hal...@aol.com> wrote:

>mix 50 / 50 round up with poision ivy killer. that works fast and is 100% effective.

Same here. I use 50 / 50 glyophosphate with brush killer (usually 2,4D). Mix
both to the highest concentration listed on the label. It still takes a week
before the leaves start to curl and up to a month befor they go brown.

[Edmund J. Burke]

"Old Codger" wrote in message news:mpbi7u$oi9$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

So why ask the question in a UK newsgroup?

Go fusk yerself, arsehole limey!

I outrank yer silly, buck-toothed arse.

[J Burns]

The Enlist system mixes 2,4-D and glyphosate. That's for fields where
weeds could be resistant to either because both had been used extensively.

For poison ivy, I don't see the advantage of mixing. If after a week, I
don't see results, I assume it didn't absorb enough. I spray again.

That didn't seem to work with some Spectracide 2,4-D stuff I got for
buckhorn plantain. Seeing no results after a week, I'd spray again.
There seemed to be fewer after I sprayed, but I didn't know why I never
saw any shriveling or dead plants.

After a couple of years, I quit spraying and began cutting roots with a
sort of forked bayonet. I had to bend over thousands of times, but it's
fun when you get used to it, and it worked.

I haven't seen poison ivy resist repeated spraying.

[NEMO]

If you had a dick, you'd outwank EVERYONE, Coloon! LOLOK

[rifatma...@gmail.com]

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the here: https://www.bestroachkiller.com/ortho-poison-ivy-killer-vs-roundup/

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), rifatma...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the here: https://www.bestroachkiller.com/ortho-poison-ivy-killer-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.

[trader_4]

You sure have some weird shit down there.

[gfre...@aol.com]

This is the sub tropics and our worst weeds are from the tropics. With
a 12 month growing season things can get out of control very fast.
Most of those little plants you see in a dish garden will just go nuts
here if they get loose. The worst part is, like most exotics, someone
brought them here as ornamental plants. The animals are usually
escaped/released pets. (Pythons, Lion fish, Iguanas, Tegu)

[Clare Snyder]

Even roundup works a lot better on poison ivy if you add a bit of
diesel as a surfactant

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:00:13 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>

Roundup is still just a defoliant more than a systemic herbicide. That
is why you can spray it on your dormant zoysia grass in the winter.

[Hawk]

Diesel? Fuel?

[Clare Snyder]

Yup

[trader_4]

A problem in discussing this is people just say Roundup without specifying what concentration. I mix it, generic, at 2% to kill common broadleaf weeds. If I have poison ivy, which is not frequently, I mix it 5%. And it has a surfactant. It works. But if you have a lot of it, then a brush killer product is more effective and surer. It's also temp dependent. When it's hot, Roundup works extremely well and fast. If it's 45f, not as effective and takes much longer.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk <Ha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.

[Hawk]

Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks

[dpb]

On 2/14/2020 9:57 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
...

> Roundup is still just a defoliant more than a systemic herbicide. That
> is why you can spray it on your dormant zoysia grass in the winter.

"Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
active growth called meristems. ..."

The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
time.

Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
actively growing.

Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
roots so it won't re-establish.

--

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <r29078$1neq$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, no...@none.net says...

> "Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
> which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
> 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
> glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
> active growth called meristems. ..."
>
> The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
> time.
>
> Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
> actively growing.
>
> Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
> undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
> roots so it won't re-establish.
>
>
>

I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that
have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same
concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to
help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants
that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays
will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any
trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle.

[trader_4]

You can probably also spray it on cool season grass in the cold of winter
and it won't kill the grass too, for the same reason, the chemical is not
readily absorbed and transported. I know when I decided to kill my lawn
and reseed, I got delayed and didn't apply the Roundup until Oct. Even
though the temps were still moderate, I wasn't counting on how long it
would take for it to kill it and for it go brown. I guess I probably could
have just proceeded to reseed and the old grass wouldhave died, but I
wasn't sure it would kill it. Instead of a week, it took maybe two and
a half weeks for it to go brown.

[Frank]

Don't know why it should not work and I have killed poison ivy with all
purpose broad leaf killers. I cleared up all the English ivy around my
house a couple of years ago with glyphosate a couple of years ago. It
did take a couple of applications.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <721a7f72-835a-42e2...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> You can probably also spray it on cool season grass in the cold of winter
> and it won't kill the grass too, for the same reason, the chemical is not
> readily absorbed and transported. I know when I decided to kill my lawn
> and reseed, I got delayed and didn't apply the Roundup until Oct. Even
> though the temps were still moderate, I wasn't counting on how long it
> would take for it to kill it and for it go brown. I guess I probably could
> have just proceeded to reseed and the old grass wouldhave died, but I
> wasn't sure it would kill it. Instead of a week, it took maybe two and
> a half weeks for it to go brown.
>
>
>

I am sure that you have to spray the plants during some cycle of their
growth depending on the chemical used.

Many people just buy something and put it out with out reading the
directions and complain that it does not work. Like the preemergence
weed and feed. It does no good after the seeds have sprouted and
started growing. The feed part really feeds the weeds..


For some reason in the area I am in (central NC) many yards have been
taken over by what many are calling chick weed. This has been a warm
winter and lots of rain. I don't think we have had a full week where it
has been below freezing which is unusual. Last week we were almost 70
deg F in the daytime. Seems like there has not been a full week with out
rain.

[trader_4]

Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years.
I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance
chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone
after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using
it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up
drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <215de48c-3035-409f...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years.
> I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance
> chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone
> after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using
> it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up
> drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yea, the ambulance chasers ruin most everything that works.

Wife likes the Chanel # 5 powder. Seems they quit makiing that due to
the baby powder law suits. Can not get the cloridiene that wipes out
termites and most everything else.

[gfre...@aol.com]

Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the
concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile
gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back
Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <nmkg4fhmvhm7pnt77...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...

>
> Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the
> concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile
> gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back
> Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history.
>
>

We have been getting a lot of fire ants in the area. I don't recall
what it is called, but I get it at the Tractor Supply store. It looks
sort of like saw dust. The ants carry it back to the queen and in a few
days they are all dead.

Works very well on the other ants too.

[Clare Snyder]

Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well

[Hawk]

That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100%

[trader_4]

I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <a5abf18d-d05e-4a6a...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
> for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
> But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
> to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
> non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
> which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
> surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
> other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
> putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
> like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.
>
>
>

I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You
mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it
contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half
or full gallon container. Forgot which.

Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things.
The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I
understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing
whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death.
Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves
up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do.

I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was
a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some
weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the
needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down.
I tried not to get any on the tree .

[Frank]

i was worried about the same thing when I killed the English ivy around
my house with the evergreen foundation plantings. Did not faze any of
them and all the ivy died. I had kept it off the bushes.

[gfre...@aol.com]

Baits work until the ants figure out not to eat it. You never kill
them all and they have discovered orphan ants might get adopted by
another colony, if they bring something valuable, like what not to
eat. Evolution is an amazing thing. Amdro used to be the "go to" thing
around here. Now you can pile it up in the yard and the ants won't
touch it.

[gfre...@aol.com]

Part of the problem is the surfactants are as much of a concern to the
environmentalists as the herbicide. They distance themselves from
specifics.

[Clare Snyder]

Just to "clare ify" - you mix the roundup according to the
instructions and add a few teaspoons of diesel fuel per gallon of mix.

[dpb]

Any herbicide that doesn't contain a surfactant with it should have one
added to the mix virtually 100% of the time. Any application without is
pretty-much going to be hit-or-miss unless just soak. For hand
application or spot treatment, just a little detergent will work nicely.

And, yes, "Roundup" is just the trademark name from Monsanto for their
glyphosate line of products. The chemical is the same from other
vendors now that patent protection is over.

As another noted somewhere else, price is partly dependent upon the fact
that the leading brand can carry a premium price tag simply because of
its name recognition; the other factors are concentration and whether
the particular product may/may not contain additional active ingredients
such as combinations of types of herbicide for multiple action
mechanisms or the aforementioned surfactants, etc., etc., ...

--

[trader_4]

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 6:20:20 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <a5abf18d-d05e-4a6a...@googlegroups.com>,
> tra...@optonline.net says...
> >
> > I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
> > for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
> > But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
> > to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
> > non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
> > which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
> > surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
> > other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
> > putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
> > like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You
> mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it
> contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half
> or full gallon container. Forgot which.

Have you tried using less? For general broadleaf weeds I've been using
4 oz into a 3 gal backpack sprayer and it works very well. Mine is the
same, or about the same concentration, 40 something percent.

If I was trying to kill something more difficult, eg poison ivy, vines,
etc, or it was cooler, then I'd use a higher concentration like you're
using.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <465e90a5-245a-47de...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Have you tried using less? For general broadleaf weeds I've been using
> 4 oz into a 3 gal backpack sprayer and it works very well. Mine is the
> same, or about the same concentration, 40 something percent.
>
> If I was trying to kill something more difficult, eg poison ivy, vines,
> etc, or it was cooler, then I'd use a higher concentration like you're
> using.
>
>
>
>

I don't spray much so I just used what I recall as the highest on the
instructions. I just wrote it on the outside of the plastic jug so I
would not have to look at the instructions. A standard size jug of the
stuff will last a couple of years. I don't know how long it is suppose
to last in the jug once opened, so no more than I use I like to get a
fresh supply every couple of years. Most of what I was trying to kill
when I first bought it was the poison ivy. There was some in the woods
around the house.

[dpb]

On 2/15/2020 4:39 PM, trader_4 wrote:
...

> I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
> for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
> But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
> to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
> non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
> which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
> surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
> other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
> putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
> like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.

"There are different types of surfactants. Each herbicide product has
specific adjuvant requirements that are specified on the product label.
The label will provide guidance and adjuvant options; to address tank
mixtures, environmental conditions, or weed species characteristics."

"Some herbicide products such as Roundup PowerMAX® II Herbicide, are
formulated with sufficient adjuvants in the herbicide formulation and
may not need additional adjuvants added to the spray mixture in all
cases. Some products have specific recommendations for spray adjuvants
that the user must add to the spray mixture. The user should pay
particular attention to label instructions for each tank mix product
because label recommendations may differ for each product."

"Each herbicide manufacturer may have supplemental labels or fact sheets
that provide additional guidance for the use of adjuvants for specific
application situations, weed species, crops, or tank mixtures. There is
a diverse array of adjuvant products and brands. The user must
understand the composition and function of each product to properly
match the adjuvant to individual herbicides or each product in a tank
mixture and application conditions. Comprehensive information on
commercially available adjuvants can be found at
<http://www.herbicide-adjuvants.com>"

Basically, what surfactant to use depends on the chemical
characteristics of the herbicide such that the two are compatible and so
have the desired net effect. It's all just chemistry (physical
chemistry, actually).

The fundamental difference between a detergent and soap is the inclusion
of surfactants. They have the intent and effect of being able to break
the surface tension between water and otherwise mostly water-insoluble
substances like grease. Same idea with the surfactant on herbicides.
Virtually any detergent uses a combination of ionic and nonionic
surfactants to interact with the targets its intended to get to. Hence
their reasonable effectiveness as herbicide surfactants for at least
home use, but for larger applications they're not nearly as effective as
products designed for purpose and actually comparatively much more
expensive in those volumes.

Here's link to a really nice presentation, actually I just saw after
clipping all the above...

<https://conference.ifas.ufl.edu/aw15/documents/Presentations/2%20Wed%205A%20850%20Jay%20Ferrel.pdf>

--

[trader_4]

I think it lasts in the jug a very long time. It took me ten
years or so to go through the first 2.5 gals and no difference in
performance.