Water heater wire - conduit or romex?
Jon Danniken
will be using 10 gauge solid with a ground wire, and stapling it to the
joists in the crawl space under the house.
The old wires were single wires run through a flexible conduit. The big
boxes I called said that romex 10/2 w/ground would be fine to run in the
crawlspace, stapled to the joists.
One store recommended style UF, the other said just any old romex would do.
What say you: single conductors run inside a conduit, regular romex, or
romex UF?
Jon
mm
Why can't you use the wires that were there before? That's what I
did.
Stormin Mormon
an issue, in crawl space. Might also have separately
shielded ground, also not a big issue. I'd reuse the
existing wires, or run romex.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jon Danniken" <jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote in
message news:7m93pbF...@mid.individual.net...
John Grabowski
10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not permit it
to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be run through
bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists is okay, but in
either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from the edge. You can run
conduit on the underside of joists.
Why not just pull new wires through the existing flexible conduit? BTW
stranded wires are easier to pull.
Doug Miller
>As I understand it, UF if ultraviolet light resistant.
Some is, some isn't. The "U" has nothing to do with "ultraviolet".
UF stands for "underground feeder".
Doug Miller
>Why not just pull new wires through the existing flexible conduit? BTW
>stranded wires are easier to pull.
Why bother? What's wrong with using the existing wiring??
Jon Danniken
>
> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
For the ground condcuctor, do I have to use 10 gauge, or could I use say a
14 gauge? And can I just use bare wire in the flexible metal conduit?
> BTW stranded wires are easier to pull.
Aye, it seems that is all that is available around here in bulk, so stranded
it is.
Jon
Doug Miller
>John Grabowski wrote:
>>
>> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
>> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
>> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
>> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
>> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
>
>Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
John's advice is incorrect.
He's right that it's not permitted to staple romex to the underside of joists.
But it's *not* true that "it must be run through bored holes in the joists."
If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to nail a
board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
But what's wrong with re-using the existing wire?
>
>For the ground condcuctor, do I have to use 10 gauge,
Yes.
>or could I use say a 14 gauge?
No.
> And can I just use bare wire in the flexible metal conduit?
Yes.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
What is a cold water heater? Most of us use hot water heaters to
make hot wate, either gas or electric..
mm
wrote:
>In article <7m98rtF...@mid.individual.net>, "Jon Danniken" <jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote:
>>John Grabowski wrote:
>>>
>>> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
>>> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
>>> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
>>> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
>>> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
>>
>>Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
>
>John's advice is incorrect.
>
>He's right that it's not permitted to staple romex to the underside of joists.
>But it's *not* true that "it must be run through bored holes in the joists."
>If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to nail a
>board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>
>But what's wrong with re-using the existing wire?
You've been asked four times now by three people.
Are you just going to take and give nothing back?
David Nebenzahl
> What is a cold water heater? Most of us use hot water heaters to
> make hot wate, either gas or electric..
No.
I give the OP 25 points for not using that god-damndest stupidest
construct in the English language, "hot water heater".
A water heater doesn't heat hot water. A water heater HEATS COLD WATER.
--
Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?
- harvested from Usenet
John Grabowski
>>>
>>> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
>>> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
>>> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
>>> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
>>> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
>>
>>Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
>
> John's advice is incorrect.
>
> He's right that it's not permitted to staple romex to the underside of
> joists.
> But it's *not* true that "it must be run through bored holes in the
> joists."
> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to nail
> a
> board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>
> But what's wrong with re-using the existing wire?
>>
>>For the ground condcuctor, do I have to use 10 gauge,
>
> Yes.
>
>>or could I use say a 14 gauge?
>
> No.
>
>> And can I just use bare wire in the flexible metal conduit?
>
> Yes.
*Thanks Doug. I forgot about running boards. That is an approved method to
run small cables on the underside of joists.
George
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:03:11 GMT, spam...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <7m98rtF...@mid.individual.net>, "Jon Danniken" <jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote:
>>> John Grabowski wrote:
>>>> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
>>>> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
>>>> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
>>>> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
>>>> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
>>> Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
>> John's advice is incorrect.
>>
>> He's right that it's not permitted to staple romex to the underside of joists.
>> But it's *not* true that "it must be run through bored holes in the joists."
>> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to nail a
>> board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>>
>> But what's wrong with re-using the existing wire?
>
> You've been asked four times now by three people.
>
> Are you just going to take and give nothing back?
What he wrote only means one thing:
"I'm putting in a new cold water heater along with the wire to run it"
>
mm
wrote:
>mm wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:03:11 GMT, spam...@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <7m98rtF...@mid.individual.net>, "Jon Danniken" <jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote:
>>>> John Grabowski wrote:
>>>>> 10/2 RX should be fine indoors in a dry location. Code does not
>>>>> permit it to be stapled to the underside of floor joists. It must be
>>>>> run through bored holes in the joists. Running on the side of joists
>>>>> is okay, but in either case the wire must be at least an 1 1/4" from
>>>>> the edge. You can run conduit on the underside of joists.
>>>> Ah, thanks John, sounds like the romex is out, and the conduit is in.
>>> John's advice is incorrect.
>>>
>>> He's right that it's not permitted to staple romex to the underside of joists.
>>> But it's *not* true that "it must be run through bored holes in the joists."
>>> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to nail a
>>> board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>>>
>>> But what's wrong with re-using the existing wire?
>>
>> You've been asked four times now by three people.
>>
>> Are you just going to take and give nothing back?
>
>What he wrote only means one thing:
>
>"I'm putting in a new cold water heater along with the wire to run it"
That doesn't say WHY not the original wires, which is what people
asked.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
Perhaps he is adding a water heater, or moving it, or even replacing a
gas, propane, or oil fired heater???????
Existential Angst
news:4affb2d0$0$4071$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 11/14/2009 7:46 PM hr(bob) hof...@att.net spake thus:
>
>> What is a cold water heater? Most of us use hot water heaters to
>> make hot wate, either gas or electric..
>
> No.
>
> I give the OP 25 points for not using that god-damndest stupidest
> construct in the English language, "hot water heater".
>
> A water heater doesn't heat hot water. A water heater HEATS COLD WATER.
Well, it's not totally silly. It could just be vernacular for "heater for
producing hot water", as opposed to a hot-air heater.
AND, strictly speaking, since hot water is perty arbitrary, a hot water
heater indeed heats hot water, making it, well, hotter.
And then, there are hot water heaters and goddammed-hot hot water heaters.
Ackshooly, "water heater" would suffice, eh?
--
EA
Jon Danniken
>
> Perhaps he is adding a water heater, or moving it, or even replacing a
> gas, propane, or oil fired heater???????
Here is the equivalent of a few thousand words as to why:
http://i33.tinypic.com/34fk8jl.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/308ffif.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/728505.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/qsaakh.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/3149tfk.jpg
Jon
Jon Danniken
Thanks again John, and Doug. Can I just use some 1"x2" strips, or should I
get something a little more sustantial?
Jon
Jon Danniken
> hr(bob) spake thus:
>
>> What is a cold water heater? Most of us use hot water heaters to
>> make hot wate, either gas or electric..
>
> No.
>
> I give the OP 25 points for not using that god-damndest stupidest
> construct in the English language, "hot water heater".
>
> A water heater doesn't heat hot water. A water heater HEATS COLD
> WATER.
I glad you appreciated that. :-)
Jon
dpb
...
>>> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to
>>> nail a board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>> *Thanks Doug. I forgot about running boards. That is an approved
>> method to run small cables on the underside of joists.
>
> Thanks again John, and Doug. Can I just use some 1"x2" strips, or should I
> get something a little more sustantial?
...
Thicker than the cable and make a raceway in which the cable runs to
protect from mechanical damage. One could misinterpret the above as
meaning to staple to the surface of the furring strips.
At least in older Code, an uninhabited space would allow the cable to be
surface-mounted as likelihood of mechanical damage is low since there's
no normal access. Never hurts to be better than minimum and newer
revisions may have tightened the requirements.
All in all, what I'd run would depend on the conditions in the
crawlspace--do you have any vermin problems, is it dry/damp, etc., etc., ...
The surest would be pull some conduit w/ W-rated wire, going down from
there to UF cable (only difference is mechanical) to dry location in
conduit to Romex...
But to be perfectly clear on a previous point, the ground conductor must
be sized same as the conductors. (There are exceptions but they don't
apply to this).
--
John Grabowski
*Thanks for the pics Jon. Yeah I guess it's time for an upgrade. That's
not Flexible Metal Conduit in the hand. It is BX cable.
John Grabowski
*Yeah 1" x 2" or 1" x 3" will be fine for one or two cables. No need to
build something substantial. You just want something that won't spilt when
you nail staples into it. Use whatever you have available.
John Grabowski
"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message
news:hdpalt$itb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Jon Danniken wrote:
> ...
>>>> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to
>>>> nail a board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
> ...
>
>>> *Thanks Doug. I forgot about running boards. That is an approved
>>> method to run small cables on the underside of joists.
>>
>> Thanks again John, and Doug. Can I just use some 1"x2" strips, or should
>> I get something a little more sustantial?
> ...
>
> Thicker than the cable and make a raceway in which the cable runs to
> protect from mechanical damage.
"One could misinterpret the above as meaning to staple to the surface of
the furring strips."
*That is exactly what was meant. A home made raceway is not required.
dpb
> "One could misinterpret the above as meaning to staple to the surface
> of the furring strips."
>
>
> *That is exactly what was meant. A home made raceway is not required.
>
...
If so, might as well just staple to the joists for all the good that
would do (whether it's what Code says or no and that surely isn't what I
recall it saying). I'd at _least_ put it on the edge w/ only one strip
so have the barrier if go to the trouble. The only advantage at all of
surface-stapling would be it avoids using the cable as a clothesline but
in a crawlspace that's not an issue anyway.
$0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...
--
Jon Danniken
>
> If so, might as well just staple to the joists for all the good that
> would do (whether it's what Code says or no and that surely isn't
> what I recall it saying). I'd at _least_ put it on the edge w/ only
> one strip so have the barrier if go to the trouble. The only
> advantage at all of surface-stapling would be it avoids using the
> cable as a clothesline but in a crawlspace that's not an issue anyway.
>
> $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...
Alrighty then, sounds like putting up some 2x2s and stapling UF (damp,
enclosed location) to the side of them is going to be the ticket.
Thanks again,
Jon
Lp1331 1p1331
not really sure of the result--is it ok to use romex inside pvc conduit?
Of course the OP didn't specify the distance in the crawl space ---5' or
50'-- but if pvc w/ romex is permissable, it would seem to me to be the
best,easiest and probably cheapest way to go. Last 3/4 pvc conduit I
bought at Depot, a month or so ago, was $1.05 for 10'. 1/2" was 80
something cents, but 1/2" may be a little small to try and get #10 romex
through. An 8' 1x2 would cost more than even the 3/4' conduit, and with
conduit ,no need to "build' anything-- just strap the conduit every few
feet and you are done. Just wondering-- Larry
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Pretty durn good reason, I'd say!!!
cl...@snyder.on.ca
>Jon Danniken wrote:
>...
>>>> If you need to run romex across joists, it's perfectly acceptable to
>>>> nail a board across the joists, and staple the romex to the board.
>...
>
>>> *Thanks Doug. I forgot about running boards. That is an approved
>>> method to run small cables on the underside of joists.
>>
>> Thanks again John, and Doug. Can I just use some 1"x2" strips, or should I
>> get something a little more sustantial?
>...
>
>Thicker than the cable and make a raceway in which the cable runs to
>protect from mechanical damage. One could misinterpret the above as
>meaning to staple to the surface of the furring strips.
Which IS what the code allows - the furring strip supports the cable
and makes it difficult for people to hang things from the whire -
which is the intent.
I "believe" it needs to be a minimum 1X3, but I could be wrong.
Jon Danniken
>
> You got 2 dozen answers and nobody mentioned the required disconnect
> at a water heater. That is where you transition from the cable (RX or
> UF) to the flex and the discrete wires.
> As for a cable, how would you secure it? You can use a flex whip
> without supporting it. A cable needs to be secured within a foot of
> the termination and supported, following the building finish.
> I know we have all seen cables going to water heaters but it is a
> violation. So is the lack of a disconnect.
I am installing a disconnect near the breaker box (subpanel with a 30A
breaker), and running the wire (UF at this point) along the side of a 2x2
under the floor joists (in the crawl space) in a 16 foot run to the water
heater.
I had planned on just pulling the UF up through the floor (possibly through
a flexible steel conduit at that point) and terminating the UF and steel
conduit at the water heater.
Jon
David Nebenzahl
> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4affb2d0$0$4071$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> On 11/14/2009 7:46 PM hr(bob) hof...@att.net spake thus:
>>
>>> What is a cold water heater? Most of us use hot water heaters to
>>> make hot wate, either gas or electric..
>>
>> No.
>>
>> A water heater doesn't heat hot water. A water heater HEATS COLD WATER.
>
> Well, it's not totally silly. It could just be vernacular for "heater for
> producing hot water", as opposed to a hot-air heater.
> AND, strictly speaking, since hot water is perty arbitrary, a hot water
> heater indeed heats hot water, making it, well, hotter.
>
> Ackshooly, "water heater" would suffice, eh?
It suffices for me. Gas water heater or electric water, take your choice.
John Grabowski
*The circuit breaker can be used as a disconnect if it is within sight of
the water heater or if it is capable of being locked in the open position.
Otherwise you can just put a two pole 30 amp toggle switch near the water
heater.
If you use metal conduit to sleeve the cable it will need to be grounded.
Better to sleeve it with PVC or just run metal conduit the whole length of
the run and use individual conductors instead of cable which would be
cheaper and easier than pulling cable in conduit.
Personally I would not use UF in this instance because it is not needed and
not worth the extra money and hassle for the little benefit. If you want
protection from moisture use PVC conduit and pull individual conductors.
PVC is easy to work with, you can strap it to the underside of the beams,
you can bend pieces by heating them in your oven, and the cost will be
cheaper than cable. From the disconnect switch box at the heater location
you can run a piece of flexible conduit either metal or plastic to the water
heater. If it were my house I would run EMT or a combination of EMT and
Greenfield, but I have benders and know how to work with that.
mm
<jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote:
>cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps he is adding a water heater, or moving it, or even replacing a
>> gas, propane, or oil fired heater???????
He mentioned the original wires so it's not about replacing something
else.
Sure it could be a bunch of things, but we're curious which.
>Here is the equivalent of a few thousand words as to why:
>
>http://i33.tinypic.com/34fk8jl.jpg
>http://i37.tinypic.com/308ffif.jpg
>http://i33.tinypic.com/728505.jpg
>http://i35.tinypic.com/qsaakh.jpg
>http://i36.tinypic.com/3149tfk.jpg
And this certainly explains it. Thanks. Even 10 words would have
been enough, but the pictures are better.
>Jon
>
mm
<jgra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>*The circuit breaker can be used as a disconnect if it is within sight of
>the water heater
That's good to know. gfr had me scared.
>or if it is capable of being locked in the open position.
>Otherwise you can just put a two pole 30 amp toggle switch near the water
>heater.
>
>If you use metal conduit to sleeve the cable it will need to be grounded.
>Better to sleeve it with PVC or just run metal conduit the whole length of
>the run and use individual conductors instead of cable which would be
>cheaper and easier than pulling cable in conduit.
Even for individual connectors, if there are 90^ or even 45^ bends, or
more than one, in the PVC, isn't it hard to pull them? Does a
"leader" have to be put in before everything is glued together?
It sounds impossible to pull Romex through 90^ PVC bend.
>
>...I would run EMT or a combination of EMT and
>Greenfield,
EMT? Greenfield?
John Grabowski
>>the water heater
>
> That's good to know. gfr had me scared.
>
>>or if it is capable of being locked in the open position.
>>Otherwise you can just put a two pole 30 amp toggle switch near the water
>>heater.
>>
>>If you use metal conduit to sleeve the cable it will need to be grounded.
>>Better to sleeve it with PVC or just run metal conduit the whole length of
>>the run and use individual conductors instead of cable which would be
>>cheaper and easier than pulling cable in conduit.
>
> Even for individual connectors, if there are 90^ or even 45^ bends, or
> more than one, in the PVC, isn't it hard to pull them? Does a
> "leader" have to be put in before everything is glued together?
>
> It sounds impossible to pull Romex through 90^ PVC bend.
*The code limits a total of 360 degrees worth of bends in a conduit run
without condulets or junction boxes. However a good practice is to keep it
to three 90's or less for ease of pulling. Pulling through four 90's can be
hard work. No need to put a "Leader" in the conduit during assembly. Thats
what vacuums and fishtapes are for. Pulling romex into conduit is
definitely more work than individual conductors, but if the conduit is sized
right and you have plenty of La Forcea Bruta the cable will go.
>>...I would run EMT or a combination of EMT and
>>Greenfield,
>
> EMT? Greenfield?
*Electrically Metallic Tubing and Flexible Metal Conduit.
jamesgangnc
wrote:
Isn't lots of your existing house wiring in your crawl? All the wire
I have ever seen in a crawl is ordinary house wire. And stapled to
the bottom of the floor joists. The crawl is ok for ordinary wire.
And you can wire tie it to the cold water pipe to get to the top of
the heater. You do not need romex, uf, or conduit. Or furring strips.
John Grabowski
LOL.
Doug Miller
heater.
Doug Miller
>Thanks again John, and Doug. Can I just use some 1"x2" strips, or should I
>get something a little more sustantial?
1x2 will work just fine.
Doug Miller
>If so, might as well just staple to the joists for all the good that
>would do (whether it's what Code says or no and that surely isn't what I
>recall it saying).
Code says "running boards". There is *no* requirement to build any sort of
wooden "raceway". Simple 1-by lumber, laid flat, is quite adequate.
>I'd at _least_ put it on the edge w/ only one strip
>so have the barrier if go to the trouble. The only advantage at all of
>surface-stapling would be it avoids using the cable as a clothesline
And *that* is the principal reason for that provision.
Doug Miller
>Isn't lots of your existing house wiring in your crawl? All the wire
>I have ever seen in a crawl is ordinary house wire. And stapled to
>the bottom of the floor joists. The crawl is ok for ordinary wire.
>And you can wire tie it to the cold water pipe to get to the top of
>the heater. You do not need romex, uf, or conduit. Or furring strips.
Maybe you should stick to answering questions on topics you actually know
something about. This isn't one of them. *Everything* you wrote here is wrong.
Doug Miller
>This question had been discussed in here several times before, but I'm
>not really sure of the result--is it ok to use romex inside pvc conduit?
Any place that it's legal to install romex, it's legal to install romex in PVC
conduit.
>Of course the OP didn't specify the distance in the crawl space ---5' or
>50'-- but if pvc w/ romex is permissable, it would seem to me to be the
>best,easiest and probably cheapest way to go. Last 3/4 pvc conduit I
>bought at Depot, a month or so ago, was $1.05 for 10'. 1/2" was 80
>something cents,
PVC electrical conduit, that cheap?? Are you sure you weren't looking at PVC
water pipe?
Lp1331 1p1331
Home Depot here in San Antonio a little over a month ago. This is the
grey conduit from the electrical department. I don't remember the brand,
or if it had the one end swaged out so you didn't need a coupling or
not. That's what I couldn't understand-- it was about half the cost of
PVC water pipe. In fact, about six months ago, I needed some 1/2"PVC for
a drain for a small mini split a/c that I may install in the future in a
house I am working on. The walls and ceiling are open (the room that
will/might have the a/c is upstairs) so I am installing the copper,
wiring and drain now, regardless of whether I install the a/c or not.
Anyway, I had a bunch of 1/2" regular PVC in my cart at HD, and happened
to walk past the electrical dept and saw the 1/2" conduit for 80+
cents/10foot. The water pipe was at least 50% more, so I put it back and
got the conduit. BTW, I got the 1/2" and the 3/4" at different HD's,
so I guess that was the right price. Doesn't make sense to me either,
but I'm not complaining. I already have a ton of the sweep 45 and 90
fittings for 1/2" up to around 2" that I picked up over the years when
our local ReStore/Habitat for Humanity stores would get it in. They
ranged from about 10-50 cents dependiing on size. Larry
Jon Danniken
Pressure rating? Potability? Uniformity in size?
Would probably work great for a drain, though.
Jon
jamesgangnc
> In article <603c72f6-fef1-4763-be8a-03b06df2d...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, jamesgangnc <jamesgan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Isn't lots of your existing house wiring in your crawl? All the wire
> >I have ever seen in a crawl is ordinary house wire. And stapled to
> >the bottom of the floor joists. The crawl is ok for ordinary wire.
> >And you can wire tie it to the cold water pipe to get to the top of
> >the heater. You do not need romex, uf, or conduit. Or furring strips.
>
> Maybe you should stick to answering questions on topics you actually know
> something about. This isn't one of them. *Everything* you wrote here is wrong.
I don't see how. I have two houses that both have unfinished crawl
spaces under them. All the wiring for the lower floor is run there
and stapled to the bottom of the floor joists. The only place holes
are made is the bottoms of the walls where the wire up into the
walls. Ordinary house wire. The hot water heat is in the crawl in
one of them. Disconnect attached to the floor joist above it.
Ordinary 10/2 house wire to the disconnect, ordinary 10/2 house wire
from the disconnect to the wh. Both houses were built by developers,
both houses had all the usual inspections. You're saying both are
completely wrong?
mm
Wow. I thought I had heard what EMT was and just forgotten it, but I
don't think I ever knew before.
Thansk for a great answer.
David Nebenzahl
Well, yes and no:
o Regarding stapling *cable* to the bottom of joists in a crawlspace,
this is technically a no-no according to the NEC. However, if this truly
is a crawlspace, and not part of the inhabitable or usable part of the
house, it's hard to see the harm in doing this, since it's unlikely
anyone's going to hang anything from the cable. Still not the way I
would have done it: would it have killed the "developer" to have bored
holes through the joists the way you're supposed to?
o You're a little vague there when you talk about what kind of wiring
you're using. When you say "ordinary wire", do you mean just insulated
wire (like THHN) without any kind of jacket or covering? If so, then
that really is wrong. You can't just run wires in midair. If you're
talking about 10/2 *Romex*, then that's OK.
It really helps to be clear about these things so people know what
you're referring to.
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
David Nebenzahl
Ackshooly, I find "electricAL metallic tubing" to be a better description.
jamesgangnc
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm talking about ordinary NM 14/2, 12/2, 12/3, etc w ground. If it's
a crawl space then it's not habitable. If it's habitable then it's a
basement. And I have been in the crawl of a LOT of houses around here
constructed within the last 20 years and none of them have holes in
the floor joists, they all have the wire staples to the bottom of the
joists. It's all about how fast you can complete the job and boring
holes where not required is not going to make it faster. I've also
never seen conduit used to connect a wh. Yes, there is a disconnect
if the breaker box can not be seen from the wh. But all I have ever
seen from the disconnect to the wh is more wire, not conduit. Usually
ziptied to the cold pipe. The only place I have seen conduit used is
on outside stuff like ac compressors or hot tubs. Now maybe someone
thinks they can interprete the nec to say this is wrong but there
ain't no inspectors failing it.
So, again, why does this guy need to do anything besides staple up
some NM 10/2 to a disconnect nailed to a floor joist by the wh? Cause
if he has a "wet" crawl then he's got way bigger problems than his wh
wire.
Lp1331 1p1331
receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
using that setup. Larry
John Grabowski
"Lp1331 1p1331" <lp1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13076-4B0...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
*Off hand I don't see a problem with that hook up. Having the plug and
receptacle is an acceptable means of disconnection. I guess the original
installer figured it was cheaper to do that instead of a 30 amp switch.
David Nebenzahl
> "Lp1331 1p1331" <lp1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:13076-4B0...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
>
>> Around here, most all electric WH's are installed with a 30 amp
>> receptacle and cord-- the same ones dryers used before the 4 wire was
>> required. They must have passed inspection--- brand new houses are still
>> using that setup.
>
> *Off hand I don't see a problem with that hook up. Having the plug and
> receptacle is an acceptable means of disconnection. I guess the original
> installer figured it was cheaper to do that instead of a 30 amp switch.
Why have a redundant switch when there's already one inside the breaker
panel? It's not as if someone's gonna stand there and switch the heater
on and off regularly, like a motor on a controller.
jamesgangnc
In the US you must have a disconnect on all hardwired appliances. It
must either be visible from the appliance or lockable. This is so
that the device can not be turned back on by someone else while you
are working on it. Most of the time this is solved using a $10
disconnect box mounted near the appliance. A plug also works and
that's why dryers do not need a disconnect.