Troubles with Big Iron Drilling and Springtime water distiller

[MJF]

I want to let people know about the problems and very bad service I
received from Big Iron Drilling Company with regards to their
Springtime water distiller.

My family spent $3000.00 on a "Spring Time" water distiller from "Big
Irion Drilling" after the reverse osmosis water purification system in
our home started to leak. I was seeking a better solution to a need
for my family to have good drinking water on our acreage from a local
well.

This distiller unit worked well for one month then started to act up,
by not producing water as quickly as it had been and then stopped
producing water all together. I was unable to get useful assistance
from Big Iron Drilling over the phone over the following weeks, when I
did get a service person on the phone I was told that my "No cost 90
day warranty" did not include in home repair, diagnosis of the
problem, pick up or replacement or a replacement source of water while
the unit is being repaired. They told me that the problem could not be
diagnosed over the phone so the unit had to be disassembled, boxed and
shipped to them (by me). They would repair it and ship it back to me
and I would install it. They said if it did not work then, I would
ship it to them once again and back and forth it would go.

I did not believe the problem was with the unit itself, but rather the
way it had been installed (by them) as such I thought removing it and
sending it in would be no help but that was the only service they
would agree to.

So I sent the unit off collect by Greyhound bus to the shop in
Edmonton. 3 weeks later I had not heard if they had received the unit,
if it was damaged and or repaired or any information from the company,
so I wrote a letter to the President of the company Mr. Ray Field and
told him how unhappy I was with the equipment and their service and
suggested that they keep the unit and refunds my money (less 10% for
handling) and I would go away. 2 weeks later I received a call from
Mr. Field who gave many excuses for the problems; even though he did
not have the info about what was actually wrong with the unit. He
refused my request for a refund and only wanted to install the unit in
my home. I was very frustrated.

At this point it appears to me that my only choices are to let them re-
install this unit and pray that it works properly, or to sue them. I
understood letting them back into my home would negate any chance to
sue them in the future.

Without any other reasonable choice but to commence with a law suit I
allowed them to re-install this unit but insisted that they come and
install it so I would not be blamed for any future malfunctions. I
also insisted and received a written warranty for one year of in home
service for any future problems. I was unable to get any compensation
for my troubles.

This "new" unit (distiller #2) worked for about one month before
causing an electrical short and tripping the breaker. Big Iron did
come and replace this unit with another (distiller #3) which worked
for less than one week before it's high water limit switch failed and
it soaked my drywall completely

Big Iron returned again and replaced unit #3 with Unit#2 which had
been repaired. As of spring 2007 this unit still works. But the
process has been very dissatisfying

Key Points
*The equipment is unreliable; at least three units have been in my
home and they have all failed at least once.
*The warranty is worthless: it does not cover in-home repair and does
not detail what it does include. The customer is left to absorb the
costs of:
-replacement water source for several months while units are getting
fixed,
-packing materials for shipping the unit back to the supplier (my
concern was if it is damaged in transit is it my fault for not packing
it correctly and how would I determine if they were telling the truth
about the cause of such damage)
-my time or gas for picking up and dropping off this unit to the bus
depot. (I live on an acreage outside the city of Calgary, and as such
am a long way from the bus depot and do not go to that area of the
city very often)
*The customer service is very poor. No one called in first 2 months to
ask how it was going, I guess they don't care. When I called for help
they offered none. They told me it was my fault for living in a place
with well water. I had to suggest a resolution to this problem as they
did not have any suggestions. We negotiated a one year warranty, for
in-home service and replacement unit any time they have to remove
mine.

My family has been without the good quality drinking water that I
purchased form Big Iron as a result of the failure of this equipment.

NOTE: In the end Big Iron has determined that the increased build up
of minerals in the distiller #1 caused its failure and, without coming
to my home, they believe this is due to the water softener in my home
not softening the water enough. Perhaps this is the problem and
perhaps it could have been corrected in my home, if they had attended
as requested. And cleaned the unit on site, perhaps this would not
have taken so long.

I do not understand why they would rather have me as a hostile
customer, than a happy ex-customer.

[hal...@aol.com]

go ahead and sue them in small claims cort, its cheap and will get
their attention, but first say am suing refund now or i sue and go to
media, tv, newspaper etc.

this should get their attention:) their name on investigative tv
report will kill their business:)

Meanwhile get a new system from someone local and reliable do this
TODAY!

[MJF]

MJF had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Troubles-with-Big-Iron-Drilling-and-Springtime-water-distill-208283-.htm
:

I want to say that my problem was caused by other equipment. Big Iron has
solved the problem and my water is fine now.

I am sorry for any problems I may have caused to them. They turned out to
be a sterling company in my view.

[Stormin Mormon]

The Stucco site is not a help forum, it's an
*advertising* forum that invades real forums
(like "alt.home.repair", part of "usenet")
parasitically in order to generate free
advertising for itself, which continually
advances its search engine placement, thereby
increasing its own revenue through its click-
through advertising commissions.

So the first thing you should do is write them
an email and tell them to quit spamming.

Then try to find your way here through proper
channels. Please do a google search on "Usenet"
and post the regular way.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"MJF" <rh_work_at_...@foo.com> wrote in message
news:38817$4b633907$45499b77$22...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

[Moving on!]

replying to MJF, Moving on! wrote:
This is very good to hear. We were looking at purchasing one but have decided,
based on your history, not to purchase from Big Iron Drilling

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/troubles-with-big-iron-drilling-and-springtime-water-distill-208283-.htm

[SKV]

replying to MJF, SKV wrote:
I see that this all happened in 2007. I'm looking at this unit how has it been
working to date?

[Steve Jarmics]

replying to MJF, Steve Jarmics wrote:
The earliest I have seen a Distiller fail on a water supply is one week... on
a city or treated water suppy is about 3 months... having said that... I
defiantly sympathise your situation... however water conditions do play a
major role with any of this equipment with or without the softener in place...
it does however add to the maintainance and inspection of the distiller... a
drop in the distiller production is the alarm to take it apart and have a look
at scale build up... Even though a water softener is used the content of the
fed water changes from hard to a paste clinging to inner components... this
can cause the problems as well...
Warranty on anything does not cover Labour... Even with distillers...
someone's time ... I defiantly do not downplay your situation but I know
people who are owners of distillers not all this brand for over 25 years with
the proper education it seems these problems go away... suing is a waste of
your time and money for little results. There is a lot of distiller equipment
on the market changing types maybe work for you... however up front education
on how they run and what to do is lacking.... owners manuals only touch the
surface. Communicate with someone who knows...

[NKL]

replying to Steve Jarmics, NKL wrote:
You're talking about a person, one in maybe 1000 in the entire company that
MIGHT know what to do. Owner's manuals are usually trash anyways (just look
at vehicles manufactured these days, they don't even tell you troubleshooting
tips on the MANY error codes that are flagged by the "Check Engine" light).
Your comment doesn't hold much value, especially since we're talking about a
company who should have decent customer service, (which they don't) and a
company who obviously wastes customer's time and doesn't pay for shipping and
handling for warrantied service. That by default is the precipice of a bad
company, especially considering the president of Big Iron wasn't even willing
to refund it's customers, much less honor warranties properly. Almost every
good company, especially automakers, usually have a warranty that will repair
any damage caused by the product. This company is one of few that obviously
doesn't.

[Keith]

I feel your pain. I bought 2 distillers from them so I had a spare as it seems to be a constant Merry go round fixing these things. I never received a manual with either unit when I bought them? Figure that out? I requested a manual from Bog Iron Drilling about 6 weeks ago and have yet to receive a reply. Their store is never open even though their web page gives hours of operations but good luck with that. I live 250km from Edmonton and drove there to get replacement seals for the unit. Of course, no one there so after making a special trip based on their hours of operation, I wasted $120 on fuel and then they had the audacity to charge me postage to mail the seals out. Big Iron Drilling is nothing but a sack of hot air with zero customer service. Stay away or be prepared to get the screwing of your life!

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/troubles-with-big-iron-drilling-and-springtime-water-distill-208283-.htm

[Steve Jarmics]

Hi Keith,
I happen to have an owners manual for Your Distiller (Spring Time) If you need it.
Send me your e-mail address and I will get you one asap. It is a scanned copy kind of rough around the edges but will work for you. steve....@h20know.com
I am familiar with these Distillers and have worked on them quite a bit. Parts are only available from Big Iron unfortunately.

[brian]

Hi Steve I also have the springtime distiller. Gave up and trying to repair myself. Removed the valve assembly from the water inlet and replaced the valve but in the process of blowing out the inlet cylinder etc the metal plunger and spring came flying out. I’m not sure what order to put these back in. Hope you can offer advice. Thank you!

[Steve Jarmics]

I sent you a diagram, hope it helps. Let me know.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/1l20

[Rod Speed]

Steve Jarmics <7a32dd63d10b3a4d...@example.com> wrote

> I sent you a diagram, hope it helps. Let me know.
> https://www.homeownershub.com/img/1l20

Unlikely to be still waiting for one after 14 years.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 05:24:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>
> Unlikely to be still waiting for one after 14 years.

But very likely that YOU trolling senile asshole will comment on EVERY
SINGLE such post anyway!


--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Dave Clarke]

SpringTime Distiller from Big Iron Drilling, I do not understand how your unit failed except if you are using it in a very heavy calcium deposit area, in which case it may require cleaning (CLR) every month Prior to installing our water softener the maximum I could obtain was between 3 weeks to a month before any distiller we have ever owned, I have used every water distiller available in the Edmonton, Alberta area, Most are the air cooled version which I found to be very inefficient and noisy. I found a SpringTime Distiller used on eBay with missing parts for $25.00 and bought it. took it to Big Iron Drilling and they repaired it for a nominal $100.00 it has been working for about 40 years now. It is time to replace the Water inlet valve. the inlet carbon filter to remove the chlorine from the water prior to entering the Distiller aids in reducing the erosion of the rubber fitting on the system. Otherwise a regular cleaning with CLR and yearly replace met of the rubber gaskets is all that we have ever found to be replaced in it use. I replace two water inlet valves in the 40 years.
SO I am very pleased with the SpringTime Water Distiller.
I would like to find a generic inlet water valve so if there is ever a supply issue I have a back up source.

[Dave Clarke]

I have the following information on the origin of the SpringTime Water Distiller
SpringTime Water Distiller
The Springtime Water Distiller is patented in the U.S.A. and Canada. It was invented by Fred Kirschman and Wallace Bolte, both from Bismarck, North Dakota.
Both Fred and Wallace were two very bright and innovative individuals who saw a problem in the domestic water distiller market and decided to correct the problem.
These two creative fellows put their heads together and it resulted in the finest domestic drinking water machine made anywhere.
Springtime is a fully automatic water cooled distiller. It is self filling, it is self flushing and it operates under a very remarkable design principle as outlined below.
It will remove organics without a carbon filter. Carbon filters are problematic to drinking water machines, as the carbon not only can store organics but it can potentially breed bacteria, especially in non-chlorinated water supplies.
In Springtime’s patented design principle, the low volatile organics or low boilers as they are called, will not survive the preheat process. Therefore, they do not require a carbon filter.
They cost far less to operate than traditional fan operated distillers. In fact, there is a 35% to 70% lower cost for electricity and filters required to operate the Springtime Distiller.
The Springtime Distiller is very, very silent as it has no annoying fan like air cooled distillers. When the distiller is operating in a completely quiet room, the only noise heard is a very light muffled sound.
The Springtime Distiller gives off very little heat. Over 75% of the heat in the distillation process is confined to the flush water that goes down the drain. The heat that normally causes problems with air cooled distillers does not disturb the temperature around the Springtime distiller.
Springtime is also the most maintenance free distiller on the market, especially with soft water. It is made of the highest quality stainless steel and has an exceptionally long life span.
Big Iron Drilling purchased the Springtime distiller and its’ manufacture is divided between the U.S.A. and Canada. Further no offshore products are used in the manufacture of the Springtime Distiller.

[Courierdog]

A follow up on my repair after 40 years of use. The inlet valve which uses a brass Schrader valve, this is what most people will know as a tire valve. There are cheap nickel plated ones and the better quality brass valves. the Schrader valves operates on in let water pressure to keep the valve closed and uses a slight high pressure from the distiller to open the spring loaded valve to allow for a flushing and refilling of the boiling chamber, a nominal 2 cups of water is used. I keep a spare brass Schrader Valve Core and the external brass coupling. I clean the outer coupling in CLR over night. I replace the brass Schrader Valve Core with a new one as these parts are inexpensive and are intended to be replaced when worn. This is one of the critical components especially in an area where the water has high calcium content. Again this is where Big Iron Drilling recommends the distiller reused with "Soft Water" or use a water softener. It does make a huge difference in the amount of maintenance (De-Scaling) required. In the most extreme cases descaling is required once a week, with a water softener this can mean a nominal 6 months between routine maintenance. During Routine maintenance it is also recommended to replace the two rubber grommets sealing the outer and inner funnel like shell in place. NOTE there is a Thin Metal band with small turned edges required to lift out the Funnel Mechanism. removing the Funnel Mechanism without the "secret tool" can be problematic. Once all the little tricks are learned about the routine maintenance is concerned. The routine maintenance is vastly more simple compared to the more Conventional Air Cooled Distiller. because I am allow the CLR (Full Strength) to soak all the parts over night to ensure I reach every last bit of deposit. the CLR is rated for disposal down the sink. I usually reuse the CLR until I notice any residual calcium deposit sitting in the storage jug after a period of time. IF you want to know more you can contact Big Iron Drilling Directly, even during the COVID-19 lock down they do answer the phone, even with their COVID-19 reduced office hours.

[PappaWheelie PappaWheelie]

Hi all, I just came across this conversation and thought I might add my 2 cents as a happy and healthy user of Springtime #12 Distilled water since late 1988 (~33 years) and, as well, a clear-eyed realist with regard to Big Iron Drilling's customer "service."

The self-cleaning functionality of this very innovative design only ceases, along with attendant water production, when the water discharge line's standpipe (which maintains boiling chamber water level by providing an exit path for the deliberately excess inlet water) clogs with mineral deposits. These mineral deposits are a reflection of the hardness (or TDS, Total Dissolved Solids) of the inlet water, so if you feed the machine hard water this exit path standpipe will "grow" itself an internal restriction, principally at its mouth i.e. at water level of the boiling chamber.

The installation and maintenance of a water softener is thus a necessity to avoid the need for too-frequent cleaning sessions, but one more component is needed to avoid intake of hard water during the time period defined for the water softener to regenerate. The softener takes itself offline, so to speak, with a bypass circuit that delivers hard water if need be during its downtime, so if your distiller is still running then (more likely with 10 gallon reservoir and substantial usage of distilled water), it will build up the dread mineral deposits and shorten your service interval accordingly. I used to, for years, snake a bicycle cable outer up the standpipe periodically to clear the mouth of these deposits somewhat (in order to avoid full disassembly) but more recently have simply installed a timer in the heating element power supply to manually disable the distiller from trying to work during the softener regeneration time period. I've been happy with the "industrial strength" unit "Intermatic TMHDT101 T101 24 Hour Dial Timer" which, in concert with appropriately softened supply water, makes service very infrequent.

Over the years I've had to replace the heating element every 5 or so years, and have learned to keep a few other service parts on hand to avoid delays or interruption of supply: sealing grommets, principally. Dielectric grease on the wiring terminals is a very worthwhile service extender, as is drilling cooling holes in the bottom skirt that surrounds the wiring: these terminals are subject to oxidation more at high temperatures. Fwimbw, if you fry a wire and it coats everything in the wiring department with sublimated insulator plastic, Bon Ami is the magic cleaner; it works when even the strongest solvents fail.

The distiller's operating temperature and discharge flow rate are closely correlated; I've come to use 9.5mm as inlet valve pushrod nose length (after a good number of optimization trials) for machines I set up.

And if you use a demand pump for your (preferably Instant Hot & Cold) sink dispenser (the ultimate luxury) in addition to the fridge, you'll want a "Watts LF-150A Water Hammer Arrestor" to tame the pulsing: a bicycle tire pump or air compressor will be needed to jack up its preloaded 30 psi to handle the pump's 45 psi operating pressure.

Lastly, a 3/4" copper cooling array is desirable for lowering discharge water temp for plastic drains, a home project if ever there was one.

[Dan]

Hi Steve. I have the same distiller (Model 12) and when we bought the house the manual wasn't left for the unit. If you would be so kind to copy and send to me I would really appreciate it!!! Thanks, Dan My email address is danba...@gmail.com

[Steve Jarmics]

Hi Dan,
Send me an email and I will reply with the owners manual for the Spring Time model # 12 , hope it helps. Cheers

[Mytmopar]

Interesting comments about the springtime distiller. I purchased mine in the late 80's. I sent it in around 2003 and they rebuilt the unit for me converting all the mechanical stuff like the float to the newer electronic ones. Nobody mentioned the power pill. This is the device that heats up as the distilled water drips over it. When it expands far enough it the valve is opened. As the cool water flows in the power pill retracts and closes the valve. My first power pill lasted until 1998, about 10 years. It was 15 dollars for a replacement. The next few lasted 5 years, then the one before last was 3 years. My last one, purchased 2 years ago has now failed. Service has always been good however it has deteriorated since they switched to an answering service about 5 years ago. At one time I used to talk directly to various different people there and they gave me all the info I needed to fix the unit myself. But in the last few years you call, leave a message with the answering service and pray they call you back. I have been waiting for 3 days for a call back so I can order my power pill. I order the grommets 10 at a time, I replace them once a year. I will order 3 power pills this time since it appears they are going to stop working sooner than they used to. They are now $70 (Cnd). I am in Ontario so shipping is a bear. When the unit breaksdown and I have to wait a week or 2 before I can fix it I purchase distilled water from the grocery store and keep the unit filled up. And yes, a water softener is a necessity for both the distiller and my on demand water heater. The soft water cuts down on the maintenance.

[cliff]

Do you still have manual for distiller? I would like one if you do. Thanks

[steve]

Hi Cliff, what manual are you looking for (Model 12) if so I do have one, send some info to me at steve....@h2oknow.com or in...@h2oknow.com and I will send it off to you.