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How difficult is it to "build" a door?
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Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 7:58:26 AM7/11/12
to
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.
I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
Thx,
P
"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
Message has been deleted
dadiOH
Jul 11, 2012, 9:34:08 AM7/11/12
to
Puddin' Man wrote:
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
> 06-17-12.
>
> What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's,
> Some Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more
> difficult than that.
No, it is much easier. Or can be.
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
> 06-17-12.
>
> What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's,
> Some Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more
> difficult than that.
______________
> I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and
> reliable/durable.
>
> Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple
> mortise and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
1. Rip 3/4" thick x 1 1/2 wide strips off a 2x4 or your choice of wood.
2. Lay them out on a flat surface butting and gluing the rails to the
stiles. Clamp in position after assuring they are square.
3. Drill through stiles from outside into top & bottom rails and glue in 2 -
1/4", 5/16" or 3/8" dowels at each corner. For a door of that size I'd
probably also use a wider - 2" to 3" - center stile butted to top & bottom
rails.
4. Glue and dowel in internal rails. At least two. Wider than the
perimeter pieces is a plus though not much of one. If you use a center
stile, offset the internal rails so you can drill into their ends through
all the stiles.
5. After the glue dries, you have a frame of the correct size. A rather
delicate frame but a flat one. Next step is to glue 1/4" plywood on both
sides to all rails and stiles; once that is done the door will be strong and
rigid. Try to get plywood that lies flat as possible. To glue to internal
rails/stile you will have to weight and/or nail.
For the perimeter rails and stiles, you can use clamps but you need a lot.
You can make a bunch inexpensively by getting 10' lengths of 2" or 2 1/2"
PVC, sawing it into rings about an inch in width and then making a saw kerf
through one side of the width. What you wind up with are a bunch of "C"
shaped spring clamps. They aren't very strong but are more than adequate
for gluing on the ply. Especially if you use them 3-4" apart. The greater
in diameter the original PVC pipe, the weaker the clamps; greater width of
the rings gives greater pressure.
The ply will have a tendency to slide so unless you have nailed it, take
care in getting one side even to but a bit wider than the stile; that
enables you to trim off excess ply without cutting into your stiles.
If you can use a thicker door, I would. The one above will be 1.25 (if the
ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to compensate) but
there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You can get more wood by using
thicker rails/stiles and thinner ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are
1/8". That is plenty thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually
doing is holding the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply
you will wind up with a light weight door that is strong.
For glue, I would suggest Titebond ll. Titebond lll if you are anal :)
BTW, the same construction works well for cabinet doors and partitions. You
can make them pretty much any thickness from 3/4" up (using 1/2" thick
rails/stiles and 1/8 ply or hardboard).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
RicodJour
Jul 11, 2012, 9:35:27 AM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 7:58 am, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>
> What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
> Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
> that.
>
> I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>
> Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
> and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
Make it out of 5/8" MDO plywood and attach 1x trim or strips of MDO to
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>
> What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
> Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
> that.
>
> I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>
> Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
> and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
create the panel. Do not make it out of construction lumber unless
you like the look of warped with gaps.
R
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 9:43:38 AM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 8:17 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
> Puddin' Man wrote:
...
>> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...
> A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
> section if that's all you need. ...
>
> Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
> you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
...
You clearly missed the earlier referred-to posting... :)
NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
--
> Puddin' Man wrote:
...
>> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
> A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
> section if that's all you need. ...
>
> Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
> you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
...
You clearly missed the earlier referred-to posting... :)
NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
--
George
Jul 11, 2012, 9:44:49 AM7/11/12
to
know of that will happily get a door slab for you.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 9:40:39 AM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 7:58 am, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
thing is the correct route.
Vic Smith
Jul 11, 2012, 10:21:36 AM7/11/12
to
why would you even think of making a door?
Doors are sold all over, cheap.
You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
They're cheap as hell to buy.
And if I did want to make one, I'd study the "art" of door-making
first. Doubt you'll find many door-makers here.
But it's worth talking about. And that's my 2 cents.
--
Vic
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 10:27:11 AM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...
As far as slab construction others have mentioned it's not particularly
difficult (but then again, I don't see rebuilding what you have as
particularly difficult, either). If the problem perceived is one of the
opening being open while the weather's hot, as noted before a very
temporary piece of ply and a couple of tubafor's can close up the hole
while you're working on the door...
Actually, if you have "the right stuff" even panel doors aren't terribly
complex. Typically full-size doors use full-length or at least long
tenons instead of the "stub" tenons common on raised panel doors of
kitchen cabinets and the ilk. This means one needs an undercut pattern
bit to make the coping cut to match the stile cut. These cutter sets
are much harder to come by than the kitchen cabinet type. OTOH, it is
possible to either use loose tenons or just dowels...
But, there are a few manufacturers who have started recently--I like to
think my complaining has had some effect in this trend altho I don't
know it other than I did have several conversations w/ Lonnie Bird when
he was hawking for CMT about the lack and they introduced a set shortly
after. Other manufacturers have followed suit so apparently they're
selling enough of 'em to keep going... :)
Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...
<http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html>
For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.
What have you available to work with???
Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
likelihood. If you can find and select material, Doug fir kiln dried
and selected to be near to quarter sawn would be a good choice. There's
almost no clear white pine on the retail market any longer; it all goes
directly to the window/door manufacturers straight from the mill or for
export--I tried to by some stock for new windows for the barn a couple
years ago and finally just gave it up as impossible for less than full
bundle quantities at higher than hardwood prices... :(
--
...
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
As far as slab construction others have mentioned it's not particularly
difficult (but then again, I don't see rebuilding what you have as
particularly difficult, either). If the problem perceived is one of the
opening being open while the weather's hot, as noted before a very
temporary piece of ply and a couple of tubafor's can close up the hole
while you're working on the door...
Actually, if you have "the right stuff" even panel doors aren't terribly
complex. Typically full-size doors use full-length or at least long
tenons instead of the "stub" tenons common on raised panel doors of
kitchen cabinets and the ilk. This means one needs an undercut pattern
bit to make the coping cut to match the stile cut. These cutter sets
are much harder to come by than the kitchen cabinet type. OTOH, it is
possible to either use loose tenons or just dowels...
But, there are a few manufacturers who have started recently--I like to
think my complaining has had some effect in this trend altho I don't
know it other than I did have several conversations w/ Lonnie Bird when
he was hawking for CMT about the lack and they introduced a set shortly
after. Other manufacturers have followed suit so apparently they're
selling enough of 'em to keep going... :)
Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...
<http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html>
For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.
What have you available to work with???
Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
likelihood. If you can find and select material, Doug fir kiln dried
and selected to be near to quarter sawn would be a good choice. There's
almost no clear white pine on the retail market any longer; it all goes
directly to the window/door manufacturers straight from the mill or for
export--I tried to by some stock for new windows for the barn a couple
years ago and finally just gave it up as impossible for less than full
bundle quantities at higher than hardwood prices... :(
--
RicodJour
Jul 11, 2012, 10:13:05 AM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 9:43 am, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
> On 7/11/2012 8:17 AM, G. Morgan wrote:> Puddin' Man wrote:
>
> >> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> On 7/11/2012 8:17 AM, G. Morgan wrote:> Puddin' Man wrote:
>
> >> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> > A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
> > section if that's all you need. ...
>
> > Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
> > you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
>
> > section if that's all you need. ...
>
> > Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
> > you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
>
> You clearly missed the earlier referred-to posting... :)
>
> NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
>
> NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
I suppose. If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
cheap to buy.
R
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 11, 2012, 11:22:25 AM7/11/12
to
corners, glued and through dowelled. Cut the rabbets in the rails with
a table saw(dado) or router. Same with the lap joints. Much simpler
than Mortise and Tenon and almost as strong.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 11, 2012, 11:23:09 AM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:17:03 -0500, G. Morgan <G_Mo...@easy.com>
wrote:
>Puddin' Man wrote:
>
>>
>>This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>>
>>What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>>
>>Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>>
>>How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>>
>>I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
>>Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
>>that.
>>
>>I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>>
>>Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
>>and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
>
>source a replacement out of Houston. Local is better though, if you are
>in Houston you're in luck - I know a great installer.
>
>If you find where door companies drop their "dead doors" in the back,
>you may find a old section in near perfect shape in the dumpster. They
>won't mind if you take it, they have to pay to dispose of them.
>
>Or ask one of the guys to save you a decent section from a job, and let
>him install it for $75 or so. Chances are good he has some in his
>backyard for that exact purpose.
wrote:
>Puddin' Man wrote:
>
>>
>>This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>>
>>What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>>
>>Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>>
>>How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>>
>>I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
>>Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
>>that.
>>
>>I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>>
>>Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
>>and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
>
>A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
>section if that's all you need. Post a pic, and I'll identify it and
>source a replacement out of Houston. Local is better though, if you are
>in Houston you're in luck - I know a great installer.
>
>If you find where door companies drop their "dead doors" in the back,
>you may find a old section in near perfect shape in the dumpster. They
>won't mind if you take it, they have to pay to dispose of them.
>
>Or ask one of the guys to save you a decent section from a job, and let
>him install it for $75 or so. Chances are good he has some in his
>backyard for that exact purpose.
>
>Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
>you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
>
>
>
>
>
I believe the discussion was for the "man door"
>Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
>you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
>
>
>
>
>
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 11:28:58 AM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 10:21 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
wrote:
availalbe. I think he's likely trying to fit just the door
itself into the existing frame, instead of just getting a pre-hung and
changing the whole thing. I would just change the whole thing, even
if there were no other issues. In his case, the door is sagging, so
to not change the frame would be a big mistake.
Probably time to call a pro.
wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:58:26 -0500, Puddin' Man
>
>
>
>
>
> <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>
> >What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> >Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> >How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> >I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
> >Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
> >that.
>
> >I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>
> >Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
> >and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
>
> > Thx,
> > P
>
> >"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
>
> If you can't fix your door - and you were given instructions here -
> why would you even think of making a door?
> Doors are sold all over, cheap.
> You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
> Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
> I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
> Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
> They're cheap as hell to buy.
+1 to that. And 32 x 80 is a standard size that's readily
>
>
>
>
>
> <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.
>
> >What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> >Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> >How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>
> >I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
> >Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
> >that.
>
> >I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.
>
> >Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
> >and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???
>
> > Thx,
> > P
>
> >"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
>
> If you can't fix your door - and you were given instructions here -
> why would you even think of making a door?
> Doors are sold all over, cheap.
> You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
> Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
> I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
> Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
> They're cheap as hell to buy.
availalbe. I think he's likely trying to fit just the door
itself into the existing frame, instead of just getting a pre-hung and
changing the whole thing. I would just change the whole thing, even
if there were no other issues. In his case, the door is sagging, so
to not change the frame would be a big mistake.
Probably time to call a pro.
DerbyDad03
Jul 11, 2012, 12:08:04 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 11:28 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
> Probably time to call a pro.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
+1 again.
I thought about repairing the side door into my garage, mainly because
the wooden threshold was looking pretty bad. The closer I looked at
what needed to be done, the more evident it was that replacing it all
with a pre-hung door was the best idea.
The short block wall on both sides of the original jamb was
deteriorating. In addition, trying to get the sill out and replace it
without removing the entire jamb anyway would have been very
difficult. It was much easier to just rip it out, repair the block,
add some more support in the threshold area and drop a pre-hung door
in the RO.
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
+1 again.
I thought about repairing the side door into my garage, mainly because
the wooden threshold was looking pretty bad. The closer I looked at
what needed to be done, the more evident it was that replacing it all
with a pre-hung door was the best idea.
The short block wall on both sides of the original jamb was
deteriorating. In addition, trying to get the sill out and replace it
without removing the entire jamb anyway would have been very
difficult. It was much easier to just rip it out, repair the block,
add some more support in the threshold area and drop a pre-hung door
in the RO.
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 12:36:22 PM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
wrote:
>32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
>you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
>So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
>thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
>me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
>fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
>sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
>thing is the correct route.
Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
application.
To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
outside (and my health is failing).
wrote:
>32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
>you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
>So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
>thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
>me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
>fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
>sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
>thing is the correct route.
application.
To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
outside (and my health is failing).
Message has been deleted
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 12:51:22 PM7/11/12
to
Many Thanks. I'll study on this for a bit.
P
P
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 1:11:12 PM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
>On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
>...
>
>> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
>That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
>that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
>materials...where are you located?
St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
>On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
>...
>
>> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
>That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
>that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
>materials...where are you located?
that well.
>What have you available to work with???
table. Drill press. Some pipe clamps, hand tools.
>Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
>construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
>likelihood.
>If you can find and select material, Doug fir kiln dried
>and selected to be near to quarter sawn would be a good choice. There's
>almost no clear white pine on the retail market any longer; it all goes
>directly to the window/door manufacturers straight from the mill or for
>export--I tried to by some stock for new windows for the barn a couple
>years ago and finally just gave it up as impossible for less than full
>bundle quantities at higher than hardwood prices... :(
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 1:25:37 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 12:36 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
it going to cost to construct a door? As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.
As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....
> To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
> I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
> the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
> outside (and my health is failing).
>
Can you wait until Fall? Taking out an old
door, frame and all and replacing it should be a one
day job. At least to the point that it's secure again.
You could take off the trim day 1. Then pull the
old door and get the new one in day 2. If needed
just secure the door with a piece of wood instead
of a lock. Day 3 install lock, trim, etc.
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
> >you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
>
> That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
> thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
> door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
>
> >So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
> >thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
> >me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
> >fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
> >sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
> >thing is the correct route.
>
> Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
> application.
>
You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
>
> >32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
> >you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
>
> That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
> thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
> door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
>
> >So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
> >thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
> >me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
> >fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
> >sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
> >thing is the correct route.
>
> Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
> application.
>
it going to cost to construct a door? As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.
As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....
> To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
> I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
> the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
> outside (and my health is failing).
>
door, frame and all and replacing it should be a one
day job. At least to the point that it's secure again.
You could take off the trim day 1. Then pull the
old door and get the new one in day 2. If needed
just secure the door with a piece of wood instead
of a lock. Day 3 install lock, trim, etc.
DerbyDad03
Jul 11, 2012, 1:16:33 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 12:36 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
> >you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
>
> That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
> thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
> door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
Why do you think that that will be an issue? If hinged correctly,
>
> >32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
> >you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
>
> That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
> thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
> door in opening designed for 1 1/4".
wouldn't the thicker door just extend past the narrower jamb? Scab a
piece of 3/4 x 1/2 wood around the jamb as an extension, fill the seam
with wood putty, paint and no one will ever know. You'll need to do a
little work on the lockset openings, but you could fill in that
section of the jamb with new wood and cut new holes.
I'm just tossing that out there...perhaps you know something that will
prevent you from doing that.
BTW...Have you looked at a home-parts store, the places that sell old
doors, windows, etc.? The places near me have hundreds of doors of all
styles, sizes and thicknesses. I just picked up a 6-panel pine door, a
jamb, 2 hinges and a lockset for under $30 total for my son's basement
apartment.
>
> >So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
> >thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
> >me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
> >fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
> >sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
> >thing is the correct route.
>
> Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
> application.
from scratch? Really? Nothing personal, but you came here asking "How
difficult is it to "build" a door?" If you don't already know how to
build a door, how do you know it's less hassle than installing a
prehung door?
If you can find a used one at a house parts place, I'll bet it will be
cheaper than the material to build a new one.
>
> To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
> I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
> the old door secures the gar. >
there.
> It's too damned hot outside (and my health is failing).
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 1:35:12 PM7/11/12
to
...
>> NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
>
> I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
> I suppose. If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
> cheap to buy.
...
It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
he posted link to picture(s)...
--
>> NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...
>
> I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
> I suppose. If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
> cheap to buy.
It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
he posted link to picture(s)...
--
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 2:06:50 PM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 12:11 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>>
>> That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
>> that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
>> materials...where are you located?
>
> St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
> that well.
>
Perhat Lumber
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>>
>> That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
>> that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
>> materials...where are you located?
>
> St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
> that well.
>
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials
Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...
>>> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
>> ...
>>
>> Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
>> _very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
>> some of the imports will last that long...
>>
>> <http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html>
>>
>> For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
>> material.
>
> Neat.
>
>> What have you available to work with???
>
> Not all that much, really. Bsmt workshop. Craftsman TS. Little 1/4" router, in
> table. Drill press. Some pipe clamps, hand tools.
>
Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade! :)
I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
bullet and rebuild the one you have.
I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
trepidation before beginning. And, just think, once you've started then
you _have_ to finish! :)
--
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 2:09:54 PM7/11/12
to
he's talking about a panel from an overhead garage door,
as opposed to the garage entry door. I just can't see
building one when it's a std size door where a pre-hung
can be had for $100. Even if I could buy a door minus
frame that might work, I would replace the whole thing,
especially given that the prior door was "sagging".
With a pre-hung it goes in and you don't have all the
alignment, fitting issues to deal with.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
Jul 11, 2012, 1:55:27 PM7/11/12
to
opens outward, the you need a thinner door. I would personally start
with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim to
make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need. We're talking a
couple of hours, plus glue drying times, and can be done in your
basement.
Your choice of saying garage door has caused confusion to some folks
who thought you meant an odd-sized overhead opening car garage door.
You should have said "garage side door"
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 3:13:07 PM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 1:09 PM, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Jul 11, 1:35 pm, dpb<n...@non.net> wrote:
...
>> It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
>> he posted link to picture(s)...
...
> On Jul 11, 1:35 pm, dpb<n...@non.net> wrote:
...
>> It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
>> he posted link to picture(s)...
> I wonder how many other posters are replying thinking
> he's talking about a panel from an overhead garage door,
> as opposed to the garage entry door. I just can't see
> building one when it's a std size door where a pre-hung
> can be had for $100. Even if I could buy a door minus
> frame that might work, I would replace the whole thing,
> especially given that the prior door was "sagging".
> With a pre-hung it goes in and you don't have all the
> alignment, fitting issues to deal with.
save something old just on the general principle of the thing... :)
I don't see building a whole new door as permanent solution here,
either; the door in the pictures posted didn't really look to be in
_that_ bad of shape; it's a little effort to refurbish one but nothing
of great complexity, just a little patience and care in dissasembling
w/o destroying... :)
As noted elsewhere, I've done any number of these over the years from
the garages and shops here on the farm to some gorgeous antebellum 40x96
entry doors in old restoration work in Lynchburg, VA. Those, of course,
and many of the other entry and general interior and exterior doors and
windows were well worth considerable effort given their age and general
architectural significance for the restorations underway.
Knox Rail Salvage in downtown Knoxville, TN, generally would have
several hundred doors from recent trashed rentals hollow-cores w/ knoced
thru holes in a face to salvaged exterior double entries from rework
mansions being retrofitted. Somewhere in there would always be half a
dozen or more of just what OP needs in good shape for probably $25 or
less...
I think I mentioned in the previous thread of picking up a pair of slab
walnut 7- or 8-ft office doors for a pittance because were intended for
a business remodel but one had received a large scratch on one face so
they tossed the both and ordered new for the job...I had intention of
desk and/or table tops but they're still in the barn...another oak slab
from the same clutch is the top for the office desk here, though.
--
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 3:11:25 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 2:06 pm, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
> --- Hide quoted text -
find a "suitable" replacement he hasn't made clear what
the exact fitment issue is. I think it's that he's refusing
to use a pre-hung door because for some reason he
thinks replacing the door and the frame is a big deal,
expensive and harder than constructing a door.
So, I suspect he's trying to find a door, minus the frame
that will exactly fit what he has there now. And that
isn't likely to be solved by a trip to the salvage yard
or anyplace else. Even if he finds something, I
think he's underestimating what it takes to then
get it to work.
Also, the other point I've been trying to get across
is that he had a problem with the old door "sagging".
What are the chances that the existing frame is
perfectly square? Replace the whole thing with a
pre-hung door for $100 and it's a sure solution,
less work than making and hanging just a door,
and drama free.
>
> - Show quoted text -
80x32 is a standard size. Besides saying that he can't
> - Show quoted text -
find a "suitable" replacement he hasn't made clear what
the exact fitment issue is. I think it's that he's refusing
to use a pre-hung door because for some reason he
thinks replacing the door and the frame is a big deal,
expensive and harder than constructing a door.
So, I suspect he's trying to find a door, minus the frame
that will exactly fit what he has there now. And that
isn't likely to be solved by a trip to the salvage yard
or anyplace else. Even if he finds something, I
think he's underestimating what it takes to then
get it to work.
Also, the other point I've been trying to get across
is that he had a problem with the old door "sagging".
What are the chances that the existing frame is
perfectly square? Replace the whole thing with a
pre-hung door for $100 and it's a sure solution,
less work than making and hanging just a door,
and drama free.
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 3:22:51 PM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
wrote:
>You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
>it going to cost to construct a door?
A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.
>As for
>hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
>to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
>That's why pros do it that way.
>
>As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
>building the door, many more hours of aggravation
>because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
>previously sagging door, etc....
Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.
I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.
wrote:
>You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
>it going to cost to construct a door?
>As for
>hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
>to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
>That's why pros do it that way.
>
>As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
>building the door, many more hours of aggravation
>because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
>previously sagging door, etc....
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.
I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 3:00:48 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 1:55 pm, "hr(bob) hofm...@att.net" <hrhofm...@att.net>
wrote:
> You should have said "garage side door"- Hide quoted text -
because the old door was sagging. And what do the hinge
screws wind up going into on a door made of plywood with
just trim pieces around the perimeter? Will he get the
hinge alignment done right? Plywood could also warp
and it doesn't take much on a door to foul everthing up.
All in all, I'm just not getting screwing around with all the
issues, re-inventing the wheel so to speak, versus just
putting in a $100 pre-hung door, probably metal,
that's ready to go. It's less work and far less potential
for screw ups and failure.
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Until when he goes to install it, he has alignment problems
> - Show quoted text -
because the old door was sagging. And what do the hinge
screws wind up going into on a door made of plywood with
just trim pieces around the perimeter? Will he get the
hinge alignment done right? Plywood could also warp
and it doesn't take much on a door to foul everthing up.
All in all, I'm just not getting screwing around with all the
issues, re-inventing the wheel so to speak, versus just
putting in a $100 pre-hung door, probably metal,
that's ready to go. It's less work and far less potential
for screw ups and failure.
DerbyDad03
Jul 11, 2012, 3:39:03 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 3:22 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
re: "There is no frame around this door..."
First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".
30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.
One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".
30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.
One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 5:32:45 PM7/11/12
to
they *might* have an ext. door 1.25" in thickness. Poor gal
had noooooooo idea.
>Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
>somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...
is so disorganized I wouldn't be surprised if I walked right
by one. Will likely go back. Without AC it's brutal in there.
>Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
>unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade! :)
rig (but I'd need to stop and build the table?)?? :-)
>I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
>just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
>bullet and rebuild the one you have.
>I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
>trepidation before beginning. And, just think, once you've started then
>you _have_ to finish! :)
HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
it'd be a headache.
dadiOH
Jul 11, 2012, 6:21:19 PM7/11/12
to
Puddin' Man wrote:
> Many Thanks. I'll study on this for a bit.
>
> P
> Many Thanks. I'll study on this for a bit.
>
> P
>> If you can use a thicker door, I would. The one above will be 1.25
>> (if the ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to
>> compensate) but there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You
>> can get more wood by using thicker rails/stiles and thinner
>> ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are 1/8". That is plenty
>> thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually doing is holding
>> the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply you will
>> wind up with a light weight door that is strong.
You can also get more wood for the screws by making the door undersize
>> (if the ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to
>> compensate) but there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You
>> can get more wood by using thicker rails/stiles and thinner
>> ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are 1/8". That is plenty
>> thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually doing is holding
>> the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply you will
>> wind up with a light weight door that is strong.
length and width and gluing/screwing on wood strips over the frame AND ply.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
dadiOH
Jul 11, 2012, 6:29:20 PM7/11/12
to
Puddin' Man wrote:
>> Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
>> construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
>> likelihood.
>
> And I'm sorta taking that to heart. :-(
Naturally, I wouldn't worry about it. The last door I built as i described
>> Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
>> construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
>> likelihood.
>
> And I'm sorta taking that to heart. :-(
was to enclose the water heater - not to worry, there are vents in the
door - in our laundry. This is in Florida and the laundry is the hottest
and most humid place in the house. Built it maybe 10 years ago, still flat
as a pancake.
dadiOH
Jul 11, 2012, 6:33:15 PM7/11/12
to
hr(bob) hof...@att.net wrote:
> If the door opens inward, the extra thickness doesn't matter. If it
> opens outward, the you need a thinner door. I would personally start
> with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim to
> make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need.
Good luck in having that plywood stay flat. Or even START flat.
> If the door opens inward, the extra thickness doesn't matter. If it
> opens outward, the you need a thinner door. I would personally start
> with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim to
> make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 11, 2012, 6:43:50 PM7/11/12
to
a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
Can he tell us that is what he has?
>
> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
> that will be an issue.
that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing.
>
> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
> - Show quoted text -
HD has one that is a 30X78:
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-windows-doors-entry-doors-front-doors/jeld-wen-30-in-x-78-in-steel-white-pre-hung-right-hand-inswing-6-panel-entry-door-166458.html
If we had more info I think we might find a solution that's
a lot easier than building a new door.
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 7:51:20 PM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 4:32 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...
> HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
> it'd be a headache.
...
...
> HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
> it'd be a headache.
I found several six-panel wood or fiberglass at various Menard's over
the country from $25 to $75 from their returned/never picked/etc.
That kind of place is another possibility for cheap if that's the
ultimate goal...
--
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 8:13:22 PM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
it's all 2x4's.
>> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
>> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
>> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
>> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
>> that will be an issue.
It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.
>Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
>that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
>framing.
No!
>> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
>> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
>> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
>> adjust the header.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
>HD has one that is a 30X78:
>
>http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-windows-doors-entry-doors-front-doors/jeld-wen-30-in-x-78-in-steel-white-pre-hung-right-hand-inswing-6-panel-entry-door-166458.html
I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.
>If we had more info I think we might find a solution that's
>a lot easier than building a new door.
I've just about given up on "build new". Was just an idea.
Thanks,
to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
it's all 2x4's.
>> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
>> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
>> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
>> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
>> that will be an issue.
>Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
>that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
>framing.
>> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
>> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
>> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
>> adjust the header.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
>HD has one that is a 30X78:
>
>http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-windows-doors-entry-doors-front-doors/jeld-wen-30-in-x-78-in-steel-white-pre-hung-right-hand-inswing-6-panel-entry-door-166458.html
It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.
>If we had more info I think we might find a solution that's
>a lot easier than building a new door.
Thanks,
DerbyDad03
Jul 11, 2012, 8:50:06 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 8:13 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
with no jamb. Why would it be best to restore what they did in '55? Is
Better Homes and Gardens coming to put your house on some historic
homes list? Oh wait...1955? I don't think so.
So if you want to restore it back to what they did in '55, why can't
you just buy a 32" door and hang it the same way they did? This thread
has gotten so long that I don't recall if you ever told us why a 32" x
80" slab won't just fit into the opening. As far as I can tell, the
extra thickness of doors today should not be an issue since the door
opens in.
.....
You said you have a 32" door. You said you have no jamb.
Therefore the width of your opening must be just a bit wider than 32"
A prehung 30" door requires a 32" rough opening to allow for the jamb
and some shims.
I ask again "No" to what?
>
> >> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
> >> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
> >> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
> >> adjust the header.
>
small? Too wide? To short? What exactly is the problem with a 30 x 78
prehung door.
BTW...they make 30 x 78 wooden doors too. And guess what? Wooden doors
can be trimmed down if they are too big. BTDT.
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jul 11, 3:39 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> On Jul 11, 3:22 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> re: "There is no frame around this door..."
>
> >> First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
> >> a "jamb", not a "frame".
>
> >Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
> >a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
> >because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
> >exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
> >on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
> >the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
> >the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
> >you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
> >Can he tell us that is what he has?
>
> That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
> to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
> it's all 2x4's.
>
> >> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
> >> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
> >> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
> >> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
> >> that will be an issue.
>
> It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.
>
What they did back in '55 was wrong. They hung a door slab in a RO
>
> >On Jul 11, 3:39 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >> On Jul 11, 3:22 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> re: "There is no frame around this door..."
>
> >> First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
> >> a "jamb", not a "frame".
>
> >Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
> >a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
> >because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
> >exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
> >on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
> >the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
> >the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
> >you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
> >Can he tell us that is what he has?
>
> That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
> to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
> it's all 2x4's.
>
> >> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
> >> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
> >> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
> >> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
> >> that will be an issue.
>
> It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.
>
with no jamb. Why would it be best to restore what they did in '55? Is
Better Homes and Gardens coming to put your house on some historic
homes list? Oh wait...1955? I don't think so.
So if you want to restore it back to what they did in '55, why can't
you just buy a 32" door and hang it the same way they did? This thread
has gotten so long that I don't recall if you ever told us why a 32" x
80" slab won't just fit into the opening. As far as I can tell, the
extra thickness of doors today should not be an issue since the door
opens in.
.....
> >Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
> >that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
> >framing.
>
> No!
"No" to what?
> >that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
> >framing.
>
> No!
You said you have a 32" door. You said you have no jamb.
Therefore the width of your opening must be just a bit wider than 32"
A prehung 30" door requires a 32" rough opening to allow for the jamb
and some shims.
I ask again "No" to what?
>
> >> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
> >> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
> >> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
> >> adjust the header.
>
> >That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
> >HD has one that is a 30X78:
>
> >http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-windows-doors-entry-doors-front-do...
> >HD has one that is a 30X78:
>
>
> I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
> It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.
How about telling us what "close but no cigar" means. Too big? Too
> I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
> It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.
small? Too wide? To short? What exactly is the problem with a 30 x 78
prehung door.
BTW...they make 30 x 78 wooden doors too. And guess what? Wooden doors
can be trimmed down if they are too big. BTDT.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 11, 2012, 10:51:21 PM7/11/12
to
- - - - -.
Puddin' Man
Jul 11, 2012, 11:35:20 PM7/11/12
to
No Menards within 100+ mi.
dpb
Jul 11, 2012, 11:37:40 PM7/11/12
to
On 7/11/2012 10:35 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...
...
> No Menards within 100+ mi.
...
Didn't say it _had_ to be Menards...others must deal w/ same things...
--
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 12, 2012, 9:47:39 AM7/12/12
to
On Jul 11, 8:50 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 11, 8:13 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >On Jul 11, 3:39 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> > >> On Jul 11, 3:22 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> re: "There is no frame around this door..."
>
> > >> First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
> > >> a "jamb", not a "frame".
>
> > >Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
> > >a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
> > >because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
> > >exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
> > >on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
> > >the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
> > >the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
> > >you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
> > >Can he tell us that is what he has?
>
> > That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
> > to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
> > it's all 2x4's.
Then what happens when those 2x4's meet the sheathing, siding, etc?
> On Jul 11, 8:13 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >On Jul 11, 3:39 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> > >> On Jul 11, 3:22 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> re: "There is no frame around this door..."
>
> > >> First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
> > >> a "jamb", not a "frame".
>
> > >Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
> > >a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
> > >because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
> > >exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
> > >on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
> > >the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
> > >the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
> > >you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
> > >Can he tell us that is what he has?
>
> > That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
> > to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
> > it's all 2x4's.
Same thing inside the garage? Normally those areas would be covered,
sealed against the weather by the door jamb and casement molding.
A couple of pics of this would be a great help in making suggestions.
>
> > >> 30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
> > >> rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
> > >> about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
> > >> all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
> > >> that will be an issue.
>
> > It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.
>
> What they did back in '55 was wrong. They hung a door slab in a RO
> with no jamb. Why would it be best to restore what they did in '55? Is
> Better Homes and Gardens coming to put your house on some historic
> homes list? Oh wait...1955? I don't think so.
to not only the practices of 1955, but probably 100+
years before that. Sure, if it's something vintage that's
consistent with that period, then it's worth preserving,
but I'm not getting that here.
When I do repairs, if what was done before was
wrong, then if I have an opportunity to do it right, I will.
And in this case, from what I've heard so far, doing it
right not only sounds possible, but I suspect it's less
work than building a new door from scratch and will
produce a much better finished product.
>
> So if you want to restore it back to what they did in '55, why can't
> you just buy a 32" door and hang it the same way they did? This thread
> has gotten so long that I don't recall if you ever told us why a 32" x
> 80" slab won't just fit into the opening. As far as I can tell, the
> extra thickness of doors today should not be an issue since the door
> opens in.
>
> .....
AFAIK, all we have to go on is this:
"What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
I didn't pay much attention to the first part. But re-reading
it, if climate is the big concern, why not just wait
until Sept and repair the existing door?
Or, alternatively, take off the door, fix it in the cool
basement where he's proposing to build a door, and
put up a sheet of plywood temporarily to secure the
opening. It's just a garage entry door, so securing it
in that fashion should be easy.
>
> > >Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
> > >that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
> > >framing.
>
> > No!
>
> "No" to what?
>
> You said you have a 32" door. You said you have no jamb.
>
> Therefore the width of your opening must be just a bit wider than 32"
>
> A prehung 30" door requires a 32" rough opening to allow for the jamb
> and some shims.
>
> I ask again "No" to what?
>
>
>
> > >> One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
> > >> us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
> > >> fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
> > >> adjust the header.
>
> > >That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
> > >HD has one that is a 30X78:
>
> > >http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-windows-doors-entry-doors-front-do...
>
> > I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
> > It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.
>
> How about telling us what "close but no cigar" means. Too big? Too
> small? Too wide? To short? What exactly is the problem with a 30 x 78
> prehung door.
door jamb, no TRIM MOLDING and he's unfamiliar with
how a door is normally installed. So, he's looking for
something that has to fit EXACTLY to what's there,
instead of fitting in loosely in a rough opeing, then being
SHIMMED, which is what you do with a pre-hung.
I'd suggest he find some videos of how doors are
supposed to be installed online. Putting in a new
pre-hung and cutting some moldings sounds a lot
easier and more within the skill grade of a typical home
project than building a door. And in this case, it would
make what is apparently an oddball, half-assed door
into a normal one.
TomR
Jul 12, 2012, 10:01:19 AM7/12/12
to
Puddin' Man wrote:
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
> 06-17-12.
>
> This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
> 06-17-12.
>
> What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
I am surprised that you are having a problem finding a replacement door that
>
> Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
>
> How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
is that size. 32 x 80 is a standard size. I don't remember the standard
thickness, so I don't know if they are 1.25 inches thick. But a door that
is not exactly the same thickness can still be installed by either adjusting
the trim or having Building a new one seems like it would be a real project
and a pain to have to do.
For those who didn't see the original "Sagging Garage Door" post (I had to
look it up), here it is:
---------------
I have a detached garage (built in 1955) door made of wood segments joined
by
woodwork that looks something like tongue-in-groove flooring. Replacing the
door is probably impractical.
On the garage door, some of the grooves are working loose making one end
of the door sag. I had to plane the knob end of the door to keep it from
scraping the floor. Worked for a while, now it scrapes again.
You can see what is going on if you view the following Photobucket pix
1-at-a-time:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012002.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-2012002.jpg
In the last pic, the lower segment of the door is pulling away at top-of-
segment. If the joints are loose enough to allow the observed sagging, it
seems like it should be possible to reverse the sagging (i.e. by storing
the door upside down or somesuch) and then reinforce it to hold true. But I
havent figgered out how.
Does anybody know of any tricks/techniques for reinforcing/repairing such
wood doors?
-------------
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
Jul 12, 2012, 10:25:34 AM7/12/12
to
>
> In the last pic, the lower segment of the door is pulling away at top-of-
> segment. If the joints are loose enough to allow the observed sagging, it
> seems like it should be possible to reverse the sagging (i.e. by storing
> the door upside down or somesuch) and then reinforce it to hold true. But I
> havent figgered out how.
>
> Does anybody know of any tricks/techniques for reinforcing/repairing such
> wood doors?
> -------------
Yeah, take it apart and reglue with waterproof glue.
> In the last pic, the lower segment of the door is pulling away at top-of-
> segment. If the joints are loose enough to allow the observed sagging, it
> seems like it should be possible to reverse the sagging (i.e. by storing
> the door upside down or somesuch) and then reinforce it to hold true. But I
> havent figgered out how.
>
> Does anybody know of any tricks/techniques for reinforcing/repairing such
> wood doors?
> -------------
dadiOH
Jul 12, 2012, 11:13:28 AM7/12/12
to
door apart or build a new one...
1. Counter sink three 1" +- holes centered on the edge of the hinge stile
deep enough so heads of bolts won't interfere with door action. They need
to be of sufficient diameter to accomodate the head of the lag and a socket
to drive it. Put the holes about 1 1/2" from top/bottom of rail and roughly
in its center.
2. Clamp the door so stile and rail are mated and - using a long bit - drill
pilot holes through the stile and into the rail to accomodate the lags.
Plan to use 3/8" lags, maybe even 1/2", 5/16 minimum, and make your pilot
holes so that you have at least 1" of lag in the stile and 2" in the rail.
More is better within reason.
2a. Optional: Run in the lags then remove and work some super glue into
the holes in the rail with a skewer. The reason is that the lags will be in
end grain in the rail and the threads that the lag cuts into the wood will
be weak. Super glue firms them up very nicely. Let the glue dry - if you
can smell it, it isn't dry. When dry, redrill.
3. Put in the lags, use a washer under the head.
4. Fill the countersink holes with a piece of glued in dowel or with Bondo.
DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2012, 11:26:29 AM7/12/12
to
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-20...
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rather than super glue, why not just fill the holes partially with
> - Show quoted text -
epoxy and then run the lags in? Let it all cure together.
No need to drill twice.
Just a thought.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 12, 2012, 11:56:02 AM7/12/12
to
On Jul 12, 9:47 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
Derby, did you see the pics Puddin posted in the other
thread about the door? I just found them and saw them
for the first time:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012002.jpg
It looks to me like what's there is a normal door rough
opening AND JAMB. He said the door was attached
directly to the framing 2 x4's, but I don't see that.
It looks like the door is attached to the door jamb,
as you'd expect.
So, doing the math, he says the door is 32". From
the pic I'm guessing the door jamb is 1". That gives
a rough opening of 34". A pre-hung 32 x 80 door
would fit in there. At least width wise.....
See what you think....
We're lacking most of the basic information here
and I think also having a problem communicating
about door. I think part of it is that he believes
constructing a new door is going
to be easier and substantially cheaper than installing
a pre-hung. And I think you and I agree that he's
underestimating the difficulty of building a door and
getting it hung properly and overestimating the
difficulty of installing a pre-hung. Price wise,
the material cost is going to eat up a lot of the cost
of a $100 pre-hung. And the finished result of
the pre-hung is likely to be superior too.
Also, seeing the pics, it seems the door that is
there now isn't in that bad shape and could be fixed
using some of the suggestion made in the other
thread. That would seem to me to be a LOT easier
than building a new door and likely to give a better
finished look. It would surely be the lowest cost
option too. It's probably what I would do given
what can be seen from the pics.
wrote:
Derby, did you see the pics Puddin posted in the other
thread about the door? I just found them and saw them
for the first time:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012002.jpg
It looks to me like what's there is a normal door rough
opening AND JAMB. He said the door was attached
directly to the framing 2 x4's, but I don't see that.
It looks like the door is attached to the door jamb,
as you'd expect.
So, doing the math, he says the door is 32". From
the pic I'm guessing the door jamb is 1". That gives
a rough opening of 34". A pre-hung 32 x 80 door
would fit in there. At least width wise.....
See what you think....
We're lacking most of the basic information here
and I think also having a problem communicating
about door. I think part of it is that he believes
constructing a new door is going
to be easier and substantially cheaper than installing
a pre-hung. And I think you and I agree that he's
underestimating the difficulty of building a door and
getting it hung properly and overestimating the
difficulty of installing a pre-hung. Price wise,
the material cost is going to eat up a lot of the cost
of a $100 pre-hung. And the finished result of
the pre-hung is likely to be superior too.
Also, seeing the pics, it seems the door that is
there now isn't in that bad shape and could be fixed
using some of the suggestion made in the other
thread. That would seem to me to be a LOT easier
than building a new door and likely to give a better
finished look. It would surely be the lowest cost
option too. It's probably what I would do given
what can be seen from the pics.
Puddin' Man
Jul 12, 2012, 1:33:32 PM7/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
wrote:
1.) http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012002.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012003.jpg
2.) If all I had to depend on were your construction practices, I would
go pre-hung.
3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
I'd go pre-hung.
The problem is particular to the door. If I can rectify and re-hang
(or replace and re-hang), thats what I want to do.
Anybody understand??? :-)
Thx,
wrote:
1.) http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012002.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012003.jpg
2.) If all I had to depend on were your construction practices, I would
go pre-hung.
3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
I'd go pre-hung.
The problem is particular to the door. If I can rectify and re-hang
(or replace and re-hang), thats what I want to do.
Anybody understand??? :-)
Thx,
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 12, 2012, 2:19:12 PM7/12/12
to
On Jul 12, 1:33 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> 1.)http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
the door. Derby and I suggested a pre-hung because
you were proposing to build a new door. IMO, and I
believe Derby agrees, it's easier and probably about
the same cost to just replace the whole thing with a
pre-hung. And in most cases, if replacing the door,
I would go with a pre-hung because it's easier, faster,
than screwing around and trying to make a new door
fit the old jamb, whatever is there.
Given the pics you posted in the other thread, I
don't understand why you don't take some of the
suggestions made there to just repair the existing
door. It does not appear to be in that bad shape.
It's probably what I would do. It would be very
cheap and easy.
If it comes to replacing the door, then given what
I can see in the new pictures I would do one of
two things. If you can live with a 30" wide door,
that should fit in there, at least width wise. The
existing door is 32", perfect for a pre-hung 30"
That's why a pre-hung works and the doors you're
looking at won't fit. It only depends on a rough
opening size.
Yet when that was suggested you say that won;t
work, with just a "No".
So, it's not clear what the fitment problem with
that is.
The other choice would be to go with a new 32"
door. The framing is completely exposed on the
inside of the garage. You could take out the existing door
framing and re-frame it to the larger opening.
That seems like an easier path to me, than
building and hanging a new door. You're dealing
with 2 x 4's, shims, and some trim molding.
You're free to do what you want. I just
think you're under estimating the difficulty of
building and hanging a door that looks
anywhere near as good as a pre-hung.
And over estimating the difficulty of putting
in a pre-hung.
And I'm not sure I get the
idea of running around looking for salvage
doors. Any of those are going to require
re-work, unless you think the lock holes are
going to match. Yeah, that can be fixed,
but why would you do that instead of just
fixing the old door that apparently only has
minor problems? Or at least trying that
first?
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> 1.)http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
>
> 2.) If all I had to depend on were your construction practices, I would
> go pre-hung.
>
> 3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
> I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
> construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
> I'd go pre-hung.
>
> The problem is particular to the door. If I can rectify and re-hang
> (or replace and re-hang), thats what I want to do.
>
> Anybody understand??? :-)
>
I think we all understand that the problem is particular to
> 2.) If all I had to depend on were your construction practices, I would
> go pre-hung.
>
> 3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
> I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
> construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
> I'd go pre-hung.
>
> The problem is particular to the door. If I can rectify and re-hang
> (or replace and re-hang), thats what I want to do.
>
> Anybody understand??? :-)
>
the door. Derby and I suggested a pre-hung because
you were proposing to build a new door. IMO, and I
believe Derby agrees, it's easier and probably about
the same cost to just replace the whole thing with a
pre-hung. And in most cases, if replacing the door,
I would go with a pre-hung because it's easier, faster,
than screwing around and trying to make a new door
fit the old jamb, whatever is there.
Given the pics you posted in the other thread, I
don't understand why you don't take some of the
suggestions made there to just repair the existing
door. It does not appear to be in that bad shape.
It's probably what I would do. It would be very
cheap and easy.
If it comes to replacing the door, then given what
I can see in the new pictures I would do one of
two things. If you can live with a 30" wide door,
that should fit in there, at least width wise. The
existing door is 32", perfect for a pre-hung 30"
That's why a pre-hung works and the doors you're
looking at won't fit. It only depends on a rough
opening size.
Yet when that was suggested you say that won;t
work, with just a "No".
So, it's not clear what the fitment problem with
that is.
The other choice would be to go with a new 32"
door. The framing is completely exposed on the
inside of the garage. You could take out the existing door
framing and re-frame it to the larger opening.
That seems like an easier path to me, than
building and hanging a new door. You're dealing
with 2 x 4's, shims, and some trim molding.
You're free to do what you want. I just
think you're under estimating the difficulty of
building and hanging a door that looks
anywhere near as good as a pre-hung.
And over estimating the difficulty of putting
in a pre-hung.
And I'm not sure I get the
idea of running around looking for salvage
doors. Any of those are going to require
re-work, unless you think the lock holes are
going to match. Yeah, that can be fixed,
but why would you do that instead of just
fixing the old door that apparently only has
minor problems? Or at least trying that
first?
dadiOH
Jul 12, 2012, 3:16:33 PM7/12/12
to
than three.
dadiOH
Jul 12, 2012, 3:18:04 PM7/12/12
to
epoxy cured.
DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2012, 3:01:53 PM7/12/12
to
On Jul 12, 1:33 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> 1.)http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
>
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> 1.)http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
>
> 2.) If all I had to depend on were your construction practices, I would
> go pre-hung.
>
> 3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
> I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
> construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
> I'd go pre-hung.
Please, please, please *stop* using the word "framing". It is only
> go pre-hung.
>
> 3.) The door -and- it's lack of framing worked OK, as is, for the 27 years
> I've been here. In that context, I have no need for standard
> construction practices. If there were a problem with my front door,
> I'd go pre-hung.
adding to the confusion here.
I already pointed out that a door is normally mounted on a *jamb*, not
a frame.
Framing, in house construction, is the 2 x 4 (or 6) material that make
up the walls - the studs. If you really had a "lack of framing"
related to this door then it would be floating in mid-air, something
not apparent in the pictures you've posted.
You yourself said "There is no frame around this door, just double
2x4's"
The double 2x4's *are* the frame. What you apparently don't have is a
*jamb*.
Until you understand the terminalogy, and use it correctly, you'll
never be able to adequately explain what you have so that we'll all
understand it.
>
> The problem is particular to the door. If I can rectify and re-hang
> (or replace and re-hang), thats what I want to do.
how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
That said, you have been offered a number of methods to repair the
door, so if that is your ultimate goal, I don't know why this thread
is continuing. Why don't you take the pieces and parts of the
suggestions that you like and get busy?
>
> Anybody understand??? :-)
All I understand is that you've pushed back on just about everything
suggested here, from a used door ("Habitat Restore. I've already done
a walk-thru, but their stuff is so disorganized...") to a returned/
never picked door ("No Menards within 100+ mi.") to pre-hung doors
(When trader4 said "A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing" you responded with a solitary, emphatic "No!")
So you given up on building a new door, you are reluctant to replace
it with a pre-hung door and you've not once responded to any of the
suggestions on how to repair the existing one.
I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
Oren
Jul 12, 2012, 3:50:07 PM7/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
I tried to follow this and the former thread, It make my hair hurt.
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
The OP wants a thinner door? Can't find one?
He could look for a metal door (pre-hung) to see if one will fit.
TomR
Jul 12, 2012, 4:11:19 PM7/12/12
to
provided, I am starting to get a better idea of what you have now, what you
want to do, and what your options may be.
From the photos above, I can see that you are correct that the door hinges
are just attached directly to the double 2x4's that make up the door frame.
Also, you are concerned that because it is so hot where you are, you were
thinking maybe you could make a new door in the basement rather than
repairing the door in the heat. However, I think that whether you build a
new door, buy a replacement door, or repair the existing door, you will need
to spend some time installing or fixing the door in the heat -- or you could
wait for cooler weather.
You also said that you are not too concerned about aesthetics as long as the
door works.
Option 1) If you decide to buy a new 32x80 door, I think you could install
it even if it is 1.75 inches thick. Here's why. If one looks at these
photos that you provided before:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012002.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-2012002.jpg ,
the trim that is around the door on the outside (I forget what it is called)
could probably easily be carefully removed and then moved out toward the
outside another half inch and tacked back in place. That would let your new
door be flush on the inside and the moved trim will make it flush with the
trim on the outside. If you do this option, buy a wood or fiberglass door
so you can trim it to size to fit the opening if the opening is not quite
square.
Option 2) Do what others said and try re-screwing and re-gluing things in
place to try to get and keep the sag out. It's an old door, and I'm not
sure how well that will work, but it might.
Option 3) Leave the door where it is, but put a shim or two under it and
along the side to get the sag out so it will be secured in place the way you
want it. When doing that add some glue -- not sure what type, maybe
exterior waterproof Locktite or something like that -- and re-glue the seams
etc. Then, with the door closed, shimmed, not sagging, and secured in place
(while the glue is drying), screw a piece of plywood onto the bottom half of
the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong enough.
The plywood would be cut to fit the bottom half of the door only, and maybe
do a cut-out in the plywood so that it goes around the doorknob. Screw the
plywood into the cross rails (or whatever they are called) and the two
vertical side rails. The purpose of the plywood is just to provide
cross-bracing so the door cannot shift out of square and sag again. The
same effect could be achieved by putting diagonal angle braces on the inside
of the door on the lower half, but I think a solid piece of plywood will
look better and work better. The plywood will keep the door from shifting
from a rectangle into a parallelogram. Then, of course, paint the plywood.
If it were me, I would do option 3, at least for now.
Good luck.
DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2012, 4:04:59 PM7/12/12
to
On Jul 12, 3:50 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> >I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
>
> I tried to follow this and the former thread, It make my hair hurt.
>
> The OP wants a thinner door? Can't find one?
>
> He could look for a metal door (pre-hung) to see if one will fit.
We are no longer sure what the OP wants.
> >I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
>
> I tried to follow this and the former thread, It make my hair hurt.
>
> The OP wants a thinner door? Can't find one?
>
> He could look for a metal door (pre-hung) to see if one will fit.
We've suggested repairing the existing door, trying to find a used
door, using a thicker door (if there is no jamb, why is that an
issue?) or installing a prehung door, the way it should have been done
years ago.
Nothing seems to meet his wants (notice I didn't say his *needs*).
Hurting Hair is an accurate description of how I feel at this point.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 12, 2012, 4:11:50 PM7/12/12
to
that when giving the reasons to use a pre-hung door.
It makes it easy to get a perfect door that is square,
closes properly, etc. I also said that he is
underestimating the effort in building a door and
HANGING it. The above though really nails it. It's
a 50 year old framing job. Has he even put a square
and level to it?
>the
> door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
> adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
> that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
> That said, you have been offered a number of methods to repair the
> door, so if that is your ultimate goal, I don't know why this thread
> is continuing. Why don't you take the pieces and parts of the
> suggestions that you like and get busy?
>
>
>
> > Anybody understand??? :-)
>
> All I understand is that you've pushed back on just about everything
> suggested here, from a used door ("Habitat Restore. I've already done
> a walk-thru, but their stuff is so disorganized...") to a returned/
> never picked door ("No Menards within 100+ mi.") to pre-hung doors
> (When trader4 said "A 30" door should then fit between the existing
> framing" you responded with a solitary, emphatic "No!")
>
> So you given up on building a new door, you are reluctant to replace
> it with a pre-hung door and you've not once responded to any of the
> suggestions on how to repair the existing one.
>
> I'm not sure what else you want to hear from us.
him spending a lot of $$ and time, screwing around,
building a door. Then he goes to hang it and finds out
the framing is out of square. Then he spends hours
trying to make it fit that opening. Or that it warps 6 months
later. I'm not a big fan of re-inventing the wheel when
suitable solutions are readily available.
Best advice I can give at this point is either fix the
old door or look at videos of how doors are installed.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 12, 2012, 5:24:59 PM7/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:18:04 -0400, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com>
wrote:
The end grain wood would hold well enough to clamp itself until the
epoxy hardened - no clamping or jigging required.
wrote:
epoxy hardened - no clamping or jigging required.
Oren
Jul 12, 2012, 7:09:45 PM7/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:04:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>We are no longer sure what the OP wants.
>
>We've suggested repairing the existing door, trying to find a used
>door, using a thicker door (if there is no jamb, why is that an
>issue?) or installing a prehung door, the way it should have been done
>years ago.
>
>Nothing seems to meet his wants (notice I didn't say his *needs*).
Some people cannot make a decision. Not being derogatory towards the
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>We are no longer sure what the OP wants.
>
>We've suggested repairing the existing door, trying to find a used
>door, using a thicker door (if there is no jamb, why is that an
>issue?) or installing a prehung door, the way it should have been done
>years ago.
>
>Nothing seems to meet his wants (notice I didn't say his *needs*).
OP, but "shit or get off the pot."
Decide something, even if it's wrong.
I can respect a wrong decision, but hate when one won't be made.
In this circumstance just call a pro or handy-dandy man.
Vic Smith
Jul 12, 2012, 7:50:13 PM7/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
>how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
>door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
>door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
>adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
>that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
It's an unfinished garage. Mine is the same as his, except it's a
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
>how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
>door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
>door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
>adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
>that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
solid door. I don't know where you get the idea framing isn't normally
square, or doubled 2x4 studs and headers "sag."
And those are bigger actual size 2x4's then what they cut now.
My circa '59 is still square. A pre-hung door is what would look out
of place in an unfinished garage.
He never posted a decent close-up of the door stiles, or hinges.
Loosened stile-to-rails makes a door sag. A loosened upper hinge
makes a door sag. Anybody can check with a simple square.
Every sagging door I've fixed was fixed by resetting the hinges tight
because the screws had pulled out. A drill, dowels and glue.
>That said, you have been offered a number of methods to repair the
>door, so if that is your ultimate goal, I don't know why this thread
>is continuing. Why don't you take the pieces and parts of the
>suggestions that you like and get busy?
>
if I had to take it apart.
Don't know if he can do it though.
--
Vic
DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2012, 10:04:21 PM7/12/12
to
On Jul 12, 7:50 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
> >how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
> >door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
> >door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
> >adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
> >that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
> It's an unfinished garage. Mine is the same as his, except it's a
> solid door. I don't know where you get the idea framing isn't normally
> square, or doubled 2x4 studs and headers "sag."
The RO for the side door in my 1956 unfinished garage is not square.
>
> >No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
> >how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
> >door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
> >door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
> >adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
> >that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
> It's an unfinished garage. Mine is the same as his, except it's a
> solid door. I don't know where you get the idea framing isn't normally
> square, or doubled 2x4 studs and headers "sag."
The RO for my front entry door is not square.
That's what shims are for.
> And those are bigger actual size 2x4's then what they cut now.
square?
> My circa '59 is still square.
> A pre-hung door is what would look out
> of place in an unfinished garage.
I recently replaced mine but the original 1956 door had a jamb also.
The RO was obviously framed for a door with a jamb.
Puddin' Man
Jul 12, 2012, 11:38:26 PM7/12/12
to
>Option 1) If you decide to buy a new 32x80 door, I think you could install
>it even if it is 1.75 inches thick. Here's why. If one looks at these
>photos that you provided before:
>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012002.jpg
>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-2012001.jpg
>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-2012002.jpg ,
>the trim that is around the door on the outside (I forget what it is called)
>could probably easily be carefully removed and then moved out toward the
>outside another half inch and tacked back in place. That would let your new
>door be flush on the inside and the moved trim will make it flush with the
>trim on the outside. If you do this option, buy a wood or fiberglass door
>so you can trim it to size to fit the opening if the opening is not quite
>square.
the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
>Option 2) Do what others said and try re-screwing and re-gluing things in
>place to try to get and keep the sag out. It's an old door, and I'm not
>sure how well that will work, but it might.
next day. :-)
>
>Option 3) Leave the door where it is, but put a shim or two under it and
>along the side to get the sag out so it will be secured in place the way you
>want it. When doing that add some glue -- not sure what type, maybe
>exterior waterproof Locktite or something like that -- and re-glue the seams
>etc. Then, with the door closed, shimmed, not sagging, and secured in place
>(while the glue is drying), screw a piece of plywood onto the bottom half of
>the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong enough.
>The plywood would be cut to fit the bottom half of the door only, and maybe
>do a cut-out in the plywood so that it goes around the doorknob. Screw the
>plywood into the cross rails (or whatever they are called) and the two
>vertical side rails. The purpose of the plywood is just to provide
>cross-bracing so the door cannot shift out of square and sag again. The
>same effect could be achieved by putting diagonal angle braces on the inside
>of the door on the lower half, but I think a solid piece of plywood will
>look better and work better. The plywood will keep the door from shifting
>from a rectangle into a parallelogram. Then, of course, paint the plywood.
I tried something similar months ago. Shimmed the door up as far as it would
>Option 3) Leave the door where it is, but put a shim or two under it and
>along the side to get the sag out so it will be secured in place the way you
>want it. When doing that add some glue -- not sure what type, maybe
>exterior waterproof Locktite or something like that -- and re-glue the seams
>etc. Then, with the door closed, shimmed, not sagging, and secured in place
>(while the glue is drying), screw a piece of plywood onto the bottom half of
>the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong enough.
>The plywood would be cut to fit the bottom half of the door only, and maybe
>do a cut-out in the plywood so that it goes around the doorknob. Screw the
>plywood into the cross rails (or whatever they are called) and the two
>vertical side rails. The purpose of the plywood is just to provide
>cross-bracing so the door cannot shift out of square and sag again. The
>same effect could be achieved by putting diagonal angle braces on the inside
>of the door on the lower half, but I think a solid piece of plywood will
>look better and work better. The plywood will keep the door from shifting
>from a rectangle into a parallelogram. Then, of course, paint the plywood.
go, then mounted plate steel reinforcers on the back of door secured with
deck screws. It helped for a while, then sagged back. It would hold better
with big piece of ply, but likely would add too much weight, door and/or
hinges might not take it well.
>If it were me, I would do option 3, at least for now.
>Good luck.
Thanks,
dadiOH
Jul 13, 2012, 7:17:30 AM7/13/12
to
the top ones but they are undoubtedly bad too. To do the job right, all the
joints should be fastened.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 7:54:04 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 12, 10:04 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 7:50 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> > <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> > >No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
> > >how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
> > >door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
> > >door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
> > >adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
> > >that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
> > It's an unfinished garage. Mine is the same as his, except it's a
> > solid door. I don't know where you get the idea framing isn't normally
> > square, or doubled 2x4 studs and headers "sag."
>
> The RO for the side door in my 1956 unfinished garage is not square.
> The RO for my front entry door is not square.
>
> That's what shims are for.
+1 to that. Framing members are in fact frequently not perfectly
> On Jul 12, 7:50 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>
> > <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> > >No, in reality the problem is not only with the door, but also with
> > >how the door was originally installed. It's just not proper to hang a
> > >door on the framing material. The opening is typically not square, the
> > >door can't easily be adjusted if the framing sags and there is no
> > >adequate way to trim out the door to give it a finished look. Maybe
> > >that's not necessary in a garage, but it still doesn't make it right.
>
> > It's an unfinished garage. Mine is the same as his, except it's a
> > solid door. I don't know where you get the idea framing isn't normally
> > square, or doubled 2x4 studs and headers "sag."
>
> The RO for the side door in my 1956 unfinished garage is not square.
> The RO for my front entry door is not square.
>
> That's what shims are for.
square or even straight. Just take a look at a typical 2x4 in the
pile
at HD. Even if you took extra care to make the ones for a door
frame perfectly square when nailing, you still have variations
in the 2 x 4's themselves that make them unsuitable compared
to a shimmed door jamb. Then you have to make the rough
opening a precision opening. It would be like requiring that a
kitchen cabinet cutout be precise to 1/16" all the way around
to fit an oven instead of making it a rough opening that makes
it easy and allows for tolerance. That's why the door jamb,
plus shims are used. And why most doors are sold as pre-hung,
to make the installation easy and relatively foolproof.
>
> > And those are bigger actual size 2x4's then what they cut now.
>
> So what? Mine are too. How does size enter into discussion regarding
> square?
>
> > My circa '59 is still square.
>
> Good for you. Seriously.
>
> > A pre-hung door is what would look out
> > of place in an unfinished garage.
>
> Looks just fine in mine. Out of place? Not in the least.
>
> I recently replaced mine but the original 1956 door had a jamb also.
>
> The RO was obviously framed for a door with a jamb.
>
>
a 1950's detached garage either. From the pics, this garage
already has vinyl siding, what about that?
>
> > He never posted a decent close-up of the door stiles, or hinges.
> > Loosened stile-to-rails makes a door sag. A loosened upper hinge
> > makes a door sag. Anybody can check with a simple square.
> > Every sagging door I've fixed was fixed by resetting the hinges tight
> > because the screws had pulled out. A drill, dowels and glue.
>
> > >That said, you have been offered a number of methods to repair the
> > >door, so if that is your ultimate goal, I don't know why this thread
> > >is continuing. Why don't you take the pieces and parts of the
> > >suggestions that you like and get busy?
>
> > Yep. Seeing the door, it's a nice one, and I'd try to keep it, even
> > if I had to take it apart.
> > Don't know if he can do it though.
>
> > --
>
If he can't repair the original door, which doesn't look bad at all,
then I seriously doubt any door that he builds from scratch
is going to look better in that garage than a pre-hung. That's
why we presented a pre-hung as an option. But from all I've
seen and heard I think repairing the existing door is the best
option.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 8:22:28 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 12, 11:38 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >> 1.)
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoor06-2012...
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-20...
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-...,
why he said to buy a wood one so that you can trim it.
I know you don't want to hear it. But for the peanut gallery, some
would say what you just pointed out is another advantage
of a pre-hung door. It's hinged, fits correctly, is perfecty square,
and will clear the jamb when you open it.
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:11:19 -0400, "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
> >Puddin' Man wrote:
> >> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"
> >Puddin' Man wrote:
> >> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >> 1.)
>
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
>
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
> >>http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside0...
>
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCU06-20...
> >http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorCUII06-...,
> >the trim that is around the door on the outside (I forget what it is called)
> >could probably easily be carefully removed and then moved out toward the
> >outside another half inch and tacked back in place. That would let your new
> >door be flush on the inside and the moved trim will make it flush with the
> >trim on the outside. If you do this option, buy a wood or fiberglass door
> >so you can trim it to size to fit the opening if the opening is not quite
> >square.
>
> Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
If it doesn't clear the jamb, then I guess per his instructions that's
> >could probably easily be carefully removed and then moved out toward the
> >outside another half inch and tacked back in place. That would let your new
> >door be flush on the inside and the moved trim will make it flush with the
> >trim on the outside. If you do this option, buy a wood or fiberglass door
> >so you can trim it to size to fit the opening if the opening is not quite
> >square.
>
> Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
why he said to buy a wood one so that you can trim it.
I know you don't want to hear it. But for the peanut gallery, some
would say what you just pointed out is another advantage
of a pre-hung door. It's hinged, fits correctly, is perfecty square,
and will clear the jamb when you open it.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 9:16:04 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 12, 11:38 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
>
Obviously, I'm not standing inside your garage, but when I "think
>
> Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
>
about it", I don't think about using the existing hinges, I think
about using the correct hinges for a standard door thickness.
You have stops on the exterior. The face of the exterior of any
thickness door is going to still hit those stops when the door is
closed. If the door is 1.75" thick or 4" thick, the exterior face is
not going to move. It will be the face of the *interior* of a thicker
door that will simply extend further into the garage.
If you do not have room on the 2 x 4 framing (To avoid any more
confusion, I would not call that a jamb) for wider hinges to mount,
scab an extension onto the interior face of the framing to extend it
into the room. Use glue and screws to secure the extension.
Your other option is to remove the exterior stops and move them
outward so that the interior face of the door stays within the
existing framing.
I can't view the photos from the machine I'm currently on, so If I'm
missing something major here, I apologize. If I recall correctly, the
exterior stops are just some strips of wood nailed to the framing. Pry
them off, hang the new/used thicker door and reinstall (or replace
with narrower) stops in proper location.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 9:59:40 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 9:16 am, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 11:38 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> > the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> > even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
>
> Obviously, I'm not standing inside your garage, but when I "think
> about it", I don't think about using the existing hinges, I think
> about using the correct hinges for a standard door thickness.
>
> You have stops on the exterior. The face of the exterior of any
> thickness door is going to still hit those stops when the door is
> closed. If the door is 1.75" thick or 4" thick, the exterior face is
> not going to move. It will be the face of the *interior* of a thicker
> door that will simply extend further into the garage.
I think what he's worrying about is not the stops. It's
> On Jul 12, 11:38 pm, Puddin' Man <puddingDOT...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
> > the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> > even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
>
> Obviously, I'm not standing inside your garage, but when I "think
> about it", I don't think about using the existing hinges, I think
> about using the correct hinges for a standard door thickness.
>
> You have stops on the exterior. The face of the exterior of any
> thickness door is going to still hit those stops when the door is
> closed. If the door is 1.75" thick or 4" thick, the exterior face is
> not going to move. It will be the face of the *interior* of a thicker
> door that will simply extend further into the garage.
the clearance when opening due to increased thickness.
Imagine a 1" door hung in a 6" wide door jamb, no stops.
Let's further assume it just has minimum clearance on
the side with no hinges so it opens without hitting.
Now, make that door 3" thick without changing any
other dimensions. While it will fit in the same opening,
it will not open because as you open it, as it pivots,
at some point the side without the hinges will hit the
jamb due to the increased thickness
But, I don't understand why a guy that
is proposing to build an entire door from scratch
thinks this is a big deal. All you'd have to do is
remove some material from the side or sides of
the door to get the necessary clearance. As
I pointed out and I think you agree with, this is
another example of an advantage of a pre-hung
door.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 10:20:21 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 9:59 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
> door.- Hide quoted text -
reasoning" thing.
If the exterior face of the door is up against the stops, why does it
matter how thick the slab is? As soon as the door begins to open, the
slab begins to move away from the frame/jamb.
Take a look at the interior of any closed door near where you are are.
Imagine screwing a 4 x 4 to the interior face along the lockset edge.
Now you have really thick "door", right?
How is that extra thickness on the interior side going to prevent the
door from opening?
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
OK, now I'm missing something. Maybe it's that whole "spatial
> - Show quoted text -
reasoning" thing.
If the exterior face of the door is up against the stops, why does it
matter how thick the slab is? As soon as the door begins to open, the
slab begins to move away from the frame/jamb.
Take a look at the interior of any closed door near where you are are.
Imagine screwing a 4 x 4 to the interior face along the lockset edge.
Now you have really thick "door", right?
How is that extra thickness on the interior side going to prevent the
door from opening?
TomR
Jul 13, 2012, 10:24:31 AM7/13/12
to
Puddin' Man wrote:
>
>> Option 1) If you decide to buy a new 32x80 door, I think you could
>> install
>> it even if it is 1.75 inches thick.
>
>> Option 1) If you decide to buy a new 32x80 door, I think you could
>> install
>> it even if it is 1.75 inches thick.
> Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I
> mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
If, because the door is 1.75" instead of 1.25", it hits the
> mount
> the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
> even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
jamb/frome/whatever, you would have to trim it or plane it a little to make
it fit.
>> Option 2) Do what others said and try re-screwing and re-gluing
>> things in
>> place to try to get and keep the sag out. It's an old door, and I'm
>> not
>> sure how well that will work, but it might.
> This is looking more likely all the time. Check back tomorrow or the
> next day. :-)
>> Option 3) Leave the door where it is, but put a shim or two under
>> screw a piece of plywood onto
>> the bottom half of
>> the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong
>> enough.
>> the bottom half of
>> the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong
>> enough.
> I tried something similar months ago. Shimmed the door up as far as
> it would go, then mounted plate steel reinforcers on the back of door
> secured with deck screws. It helped for a while, then sagged back. It
> would hold better with big piece of ply, but likely would add too
> much weight, door and/or hinges might not take it well.
I have done this before and it does work. You could probably even use a
> it would go, then mounted plate steel reinforcers on the back of door
> secured with deck screws. It helped for a while, then sagged back. It
> would hold better with big piece of ply, but likely would add too
> much weight, door and/or hinges might not take it well.
piece of luan. It's the big square piece that prevents the sagging.
Smaller pieces -- like pieces of metal -- put too much stress on the small
area of the small piece of metal and probably didn't work for that reason.
In fact, I'd bet that you could put a large square of sheet metal instead of
the plywood or luan and it would work. The wieight of any of these will be
minimal and I think it will solve your problem.
> 'Tis a work in progress. I'll report back.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 12:08:51 PM7/13/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Use 3 envelopes to see the geometry. Put one on a
> - Show quoted text -
table, facing the long way. That's will represent the
left side of the jamb. Leave a gap to the right of that
envelope the width of an envelope and put down
the second envelope. So now you have the door
opening between those two envelopes.
Now use the short side of the third envelope to
represent the door. Position it so that it's in the
opening, tight, all the envelopes are just touching.
You will see that if the "door" only extends into the
opening a little bit, when you pivot it to represent
opening, it only takes a little clearance for the
far side of the door on the side opposite the
hinges to clear the opening. Now
move the door envelope so it's way inside the
other two envelopes that represent the door
opening. Try pivoting it again, the same way
to represent opening. Unless you increase the
size of the opening, the far side of the "door"
on the side away from the hinges will hit the door
opening.
The extent of the issue depends on the
geometry. For the small change in door thickness
he's talking about, it could very well be so small
that the door will still open. But if it hits, then all that's
needed is to remove maybe 1/8" of material
from the side.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 12:58:32 PM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 12:08 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> from the side.- Hide quoted text -
To state my "attach a 4 x 4" example in a simpler way, try this:
Stand on the side of a door that opens in. "Thicken" the door by
placing your hand on the interior face on the non-hinge side,
essentially forcing the interior face of the door (the back of your
hand) further into the room, beyond the jamb.
Now open the door, towards you, of course. now close the door.
Did any part of the door or your hand ever touch the inside of the
jamb? I think not. Don't see how it could.
If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
non-hinge side going to hit the jamb?
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't have any envelopes present, but I do have a door.
> - Show quoted text -
To state my "attach a 4 x 4" example in a simpler way, try this:
Stand on the side of a door that opens in. "Thicken" the door by
placing your hand on the interior face on the non-hinge side,
essentially forcing the interior face of the door (the back of your
hand) further into the room, beyond the jamb.
Now open the door, towards you, of course. now close the door.
Did any part of the door or your hand ever touch the inside of the
jamb? I think not. Don't see how it could.
If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
non-hinge side going to hit the jamb?
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 2:02:16 PM7/13/12
to
not coming straight out. The back side of that 4x4
would hit the door jamb and that would be it. As soon
as the door starts to pivot, the back of the side
without the hinges moves slightly to the right. It's
just a fraction of an inch, but the clearance between
door and jamb must allow for it. So, if you had just
enough clearance for a 1.5" door and you put in say
a 3" door, it would hit and not open.
>
> If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
> is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
>
> - Show quoted text -
It hits because the door does not open straight out.
> - Show quoted text -
If the door came straight out on both sides, then the
door would clear with just a tiny gap, say 1/64". But
it pivots on an angle bringing the backside on the
side away from the hinges closer to the door opening. And the thicker
the door the further to the side the far side of the door will be
before it clears the edge of the jamb.
Imagine you were moving a bed that is 6 inches
thick through a doorway, in the same position as
a door would be, ie vertical. The bed
is only 1/8 inch narrower all the way around than
the door opening.
Positioned perfectly straight, in the plane of the
opening, it goes through, right?
Now when the bed is fully inside the opening and
just about to come out the other side, what happens
if you try to rotate the bed slightly? The door hits the
sides of the openings. Now imagine if the bed were
only 1" thick. The same thing would happen but it
would hit the sides less when rotated. That is the
effect I think he's talking about and it does require
more clearance side to side the thicker the door.
There might be enough extra space in his case that
going from 1.25" to 1.75" it still works. But figuring out
if there is or not apparently has him in a knot. I prefer
to avoid the drama, which is why a pre-hung works
for me :)
You can also use credit cards to do the simulation
instead of envelopes.
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 2:19:52 PM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 2:02 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> instead of envelopes.- Hide quoted text -
> > Stand on the side of a door that opens in. "Thicken" the door by
> > placing your hand on the interior face on the non-hinge side,
> > essentially forcing the interior face of the door (the back of your
> > hand) further into the room, beyond the jamb.
>
The experiment is incorrect. Because the thicker door
does not extend beyond the jamb into the room. The
door sits INSIDE the jamb. So, the correct experiment
would be to place your 4 x 4 thickener on the part of
the door entering the door jamb. And of course it will
hit as the door pivots.
But playing around with an interior door that I guess is
about 1.25", it looks like I could just about double the
thickness with that door before it actually hit. So, if
he's just adding a 1/2" it's probably fine unless he has
little clearance at some point. And again, it's easy to
fix if it is a problem by just removing a little material
from the side.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Back to your door experiment again:
> - Show quoted text -
> > Stand on the side of a door that opens in. "Thicken" the door by
> > placing your hand on the interior face on the non-hinge side,
> > essentially forcing the interior face of the door (the back of your
> > hand) further into the room, beyond the jamb.
>
does not extend beyond the jamb into the room. The
door sits INSIDE the jamb. So, the correct experiment
would be to place your 4 x 4 thickener on the part of
the door entering the door jamb. And of course it will
hit as the door pivots.
But playing around with an interior door that I guess is
about 1.25", it looks like I could just about double the
thickness with that door before it actually hit. So, if
he's just adding a 1/2" it's probably fine unless he has
little clearance at some point. And again, it's easy to
fix if it is a problem by just removing a little material
from the side.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 2:35:28 PM7/13/12
to
> Of course it would because the door is PIVOTING,
> not coming straight out. The back side of that 4x4
> would hit the door jamb and that would be it. As soon
> as the door starts to pivot, the back of the side
> without the hinges moves slightly to the right. It's
> just a fraction of an inch, but the clearance between
> door and jamb must allow for it. So, if you had just
> enough clearance for a 1.5" door and you put in say
> a 3" door, it would hit and not open.
You have absolutely lost me. Maybe we aren't looking at the door in
> not coming straight out. The back side of that 4x4
> would hit the door jamb and that would be it. As soon
> as the door starts to pivot, the back of the side
> without the hinges moves slightly to the right. It's
> just a fraction of an inch, but the clearance between
> door and jamb must allow for it. So, if you had just
> enough clearance for a 1.5" door and you put in say
> a 3" door, it would hit and not open.
the same way.
Let's get our orientation correct:
"the back of the side without the hinges"
I am standing inside of a room.
The lockset (L) is on my left, the hinges (H) are on my right.
The door opens towards me, thus I can see the pin side of the hinges
(HP)
If I grab the door handle and pull, the door will open in towards me,
exposing the edge of the door which we are calling the "thickness"
If this picture posts correctly, the L for lockset is located in the
area that you refer to as "the back of the side without the hinges".
---------
| |
| HP
| |
|L |
| HP
| |
---------
Is that correct?
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 13, 2012, 4:29:29 PM7/13/12
to
with your 4 x 4, the place where the problem occurs would
be on the left side. So, take the 4 x 4 and place it on the
left, but not on this side of the door, on the other side,
away from where we are standing. Then it sits INSIDE
the door jamb, just like a thicker door would.
Now if you try to open it the door, because it is now 5"
thick, as it starts to pivot, the new back edge of the 4 x4
is going to hit the door jamb blocking it from opening.
It does that because it ROTATES and does not just
come straight out like pulling a plug out of a hole.
If you can't picture the effect with 4", try taking it even
further. Say the door was 3 ft thick inside a 3 ft door
jamb. Would it still open then?
Of course this a big exageration. If you only increase
the thickness 1/2", it's very likely there is still enough
clearance that the door would work OK.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 6:05:09 PM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 4:29 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
This is the point upon which our thoughts differ. I was going to
respond to your other post about my hand experiment being wrong, but I
wanted to wait until the GG delay passed and you had a chance to read
the above description. As long as we are looking at this from the same
vantage point, we can go on.
Take a look at this picture:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012003.jpg
We are looking at "the back of the side without the hinges", correct?
( I can't access these pictures at work so I couldn't post that
earlier)
OK, so we are looking at the interior face of the door. It appears to
be flush with the edge of framing, so let's call it so.
We can also assume that the exterior face of the door is up against
the exterior stops and can go no further "forward" i.e. away from
where we're standing.
You are standing 3 feet from the door - don't move.
I am now going to hang a 1/2" thicker door, making sure that the
exterior face is up against the exterior stops as before.
How far from the door are you now? 2 feet 11 1/2 inches, right?
The interior face has moved back into the room, extending beyond the
framing.
Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
respond to your other post about my hand experiment being wrong, but I
wanted to wait until the GG delay passed and you had a chance to read
the above description. As long as we are looking at this from the same
vantage point, we can go on.
Take a look at this picture:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Puddin_Man/GarageDoorInside07-2012003.jpg
We are looking at "the back of the side without the hinges", correct?
( I can't access these pictures at work so I couldn't post that
earlier)
OK, so we are looking at the interior face of the door. It appears to
be flush with the edge of framing, so let's call it so.
We can also assume that the exterior face of the door is up against
the exterior stops and can go no further "forward" i.e. away from
where we're standing.
You are standing 3 feet from the door - don't move.
I am now going to hang a 1/2" thicker door, making sure that the
exterior face is up against the exterior stops as before.
How far from the door are you now? 2 feet 11 1/2 inches, right?
The interior face has moved back into the room, extending beyond the
framing.
Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
prevent the door from opening?
>
>
dadiOH
Jul 13, 2012, 7:21:50 PM7/13/12
to
tra...@optonline.net wrote:
> The extent of the issue depends on the
> geometry. For the small change in door thickness
> he's talking about, it could very well be so small
> that the door will still open. But if it hits, then all that's
> needed is to remove maybe 1/8" of material
> from the side.
Or bevel it which is SOP.
> The extent of the issue depends on the
> geometry. For the small change in door thickness
> he's talking about, it could very well be so small
> that the door will still open. But if it hits, then all that's
> needed is to remove maybe 1/8" of material
> from the side.
dadiOH
Jul 13, 2012, 7:24:42 PM7/13/12
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DerbyDad03 wrote:
> If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
> is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
> non-hinge side going to hit the jamb?
a square + b square = c square.
> If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
> is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
> non-hinge side going to hit the jamb?
a = width
b = thickness
c = hypotenuse
dadiOH
Jul 13, 2012, 7:30:52 PM7/13/12
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DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
> prevent the door from opening?
Because the distance from the pivot point to the back outside edge is
> Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
> prevent the door from opening?
greater than that from the pivot point to the inside edge.
Good god, man, have you never beveled a door edge???
Oren
Jul 13, 2012, 7:50:17 PM7/13/12
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On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:30:52 -0400, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com>
wrote:
>Good god, man, have you never beveled a door edge???
No. In the time frame of this thread and previous thread, I could
have put in at least 20 pre-hung doors.
wrote:
>Good god, man, have you never beveled a door edge???
have put in at least 20 pre-hung doors.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2012, 7:54:45 PM7/13/12
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cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jul 13, 2012, 10:54:41 PM7/13/12
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Tony Hwang
Jul 13, 2012, 11:43:07 PM7/13/12
to
Indeed. Lot of people think time is not money.
Message has been deleted
tra...@optonline.net
Jul 14, 2012, 11:02:03 AM7/14/12
to
>
> We are looking at "the back of the side without the hinges", correct?
> ( I can't access these pictures at work so I couldn't post that
> earlier)
No. I believe from his photos the door opens into the
> We are looking at "the back of the side without the hinges", correct?
> ( I can't access these pictures at work so I couldn't post that
> earlier)
garage. The hinges are on the door inside the
garage and that is what we're looking at in the above
picture.
>
> OK, so we are looking at the interior face of the door. It appears to
> be flush with the edge of framing, so let's call it so.
>
> We can also assume that the exterior face of the door is up against
> the exterior stops and can go no further "forward" i.e. away from
> where we're standing.
>
> You are standing 3 feet from the door - don't move.
>
> I am now going to hang a 1/2" thicker door, making sure that the
> exterior face is up against the exterior stops as before.
>
> How far from the door are you now? 2 feet 11 1/2 inches, right?
>
> The interior face has moved back into the room, extending beyond the
> framing.
thickness so that instead of being inside the door jambs,
as it should be, the extra part sticks out into the garage.
But I would hope that is not how you'd hang a door.
>
> Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
> prevent the door from opening?
hinge side, with the thickness sticking out into the
room. And then the hinges would wind up mounted
not where they normally are, ie at the edge of the
door, but instead the pivot point would be back
toward the middle of the door. It sure would look
bizarre. The door is supposed to sit inside the
door opening, not extend beyond it.
Instead of looking at his door, just look at a how
you deal with a door in general. Use some
credit cards to simulate the opening and the door.
Or how about this. Visualize a 2 x 4 laying flat.
Imagine taking a saw, cutting out a 2 foot section
in the middle. Now, I can slide that middle section
out if I just pull it straight out, like a plug. But
that isn't how a door works. It has to pivot.
What happens if I try to pivot it and open it
like a door would open in a doorway? It
won't open, because it needs CLEARANCE.
When you try to pivot it, it hits.
How far apart would you have to move the
other 2 x 4 pieces to make the opening
larger so it could pivot? Quite a ways,
because the 2 x 4 is 3.5" deep into the
opening.
Now simulate a narrow door, by making the
middle piece less deep, only 1/2" deep.
Now you could make the opening much smaller
and the middle piece would still have room
to pivot. In other words, the thicker the door
the wider the opening must be for it to clear.
Again, if he's adding only 1/2", then there
may be enough extra clearance already that
it won't matter.
DanG
Jul 15, 2012, 9:38:54 PM7/15/12
to
On 7/11/2012 2:22 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>> You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
>> it going to cost to construct a door?
>
> A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.
>
>> As for
>> hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
>> to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
>> That's why pros do it that way.
>>
>> As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
>> building the door, many more hours of aggravation
>> because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
>> previously sagging door, etc....
>
> Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
> frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
> construction, I suppose, but that's how they
> sometimes did it back then.
>
> I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
> way.
existing door to remove and stop the sagging? They cost about $10.
I doubt that your door is 1 1/4 ". A normal sized door is 1 3/8 or 1 3/4
--
___________________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>> You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
>> it going to cost to construct a door?
>
> A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.
>
>> As for
>> hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
>> to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
>> That's why pros do it that way.
>>
>> As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
>> building the door, many more hours of aggravation
>> because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
>> previously sagging door, etc....
>
> Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
> frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
> construction, I suppose, but that's how they
> sometimes did it back then.
>
> I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
> way.
>
> P
>
> "Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
>
If you truly want a simple fix why don't you add a turnbuckle to the
> P
>
> "Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
>
existing door to remove and stop the sagging? They cost about $10.
I doubt that your door is 1 1/4 ". A normal sized door is 1 3/8 or 1 3/4
--
___________________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven
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