Nails vs. Screws
Daniel Hicks
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> What are the advantages/disadvantages of using nails vs. screws? I can
> think of one example in my home where screws might have been better to
> use than nails. The previous owner of my home built a deck using nails.
> It's actually pretty nice, but a couple of the boards have slightly
> warped on the ends, causing the nails to pop up. It would seem like
> screws would have been much more secure.
>
> On the whole, I would tend to use screws over nails. What are the
> advantages and disadvantages of each?
Nails are cheaper and faster to install. In most cases nails take shear
forces better than the equivalent diameter screw. In the right
circumstances nails have just as much holding power as screws (but
assuring the right circumstances can be difficult). Screws may give a
false sense of security, especially when used in certain environments
where shear breakage or heads popping off may be hazards.
But screws are generally a better choice for a lot of things. You can
drive a screw with a power driver in tighter quarters than you can
hammer a nail. You can drive a screw when the parts aren't "solid" and
pounding with a hammer would just make the whole structure shake without
actually getting the nail anywhere. Screws are much easier to remove
when you goof. Screws are less likely to work loose.
I use about ten screws for every nail I use, but a more experienced
carpenter would probably go the other way. (Nails drive easier when you
know how to handle a hammer.)
I generally keep a couple of "parachute" bags of nails and screws in
assorted sizes. For general use I always use smooth galvanized nails
and screws since they can be used indoors and out. When I buy fasteners
for a particular purpose, though, I'll get non-galvanized pieces if it's
for indoor work.
John Barry
Minor comments below.
"Daniel Hicks" <danh...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:38A771B7...@ieee.org...
Nowadays, hammering nails is pretty rare, what with current prices of
pneumatic nailers. The glue typically applied to such nails helps hold,
barbs even more so. Of course, some framing nails for pneumatics are
smaller in diameter than traditional 16d, with Hitachi exception. (Life is
complicated.) No problem with this though: with pneumatic nailer, anyone
can fire nails a bit more slowly than an M-16 fires bullets.
Galvanizing: there's double-hot-dip galvanizing, and not-worth-spit
galvanizing, per many tests. If you need corrosion protection, get
hot-dipped steel (NOT available for pneumatics), or stainless, or other
suitable fastener. (McFeely's has lots of corrosion proof/resisting alloy
screws, for one example.)
Regards,
John
Richard Castleberry
first choice. Nails are still used by the lazy because you don't
need a drill and they are cheaper.
Owning rentals that I return to over and over, I am starting
to hate nails and the lame people who put them in the buildings
before I bought them!
Richard
Michael Edelman
tensile loads (pulling) poorly compared to screws, but they're fine for
shear (sideways) loads.
Use nails for shear loads (framing, siding, shingles) very low loads
(baseboard, trim in general) or when they'll be backed up by adhesive.
For these purposes nails are much faster and cheaper than screws.
Screws would be preferred for hanging cabinets, fixtures and decking,
where the movement of the wood can lift nails. Screws are also preferred
for anything you may have to take apart in the future without destroying
it.
Why not always use screws? Cost of materials and time, for one. And in
some instances, like fastening thin materials, a there aren't screws
that work as well as roofing nails or sheathing nails.
TheCentralSc...@pobox.com
For me, I always used screws for one reason: I can't hammer a nail to
save my life. I probably waste 80% of the nails I attempt to hammer. :-)
Maybe I need a little compressor and a nail gun.
Rock
used. When repairing or fastening to surfaces that may crack or be damaged
by the vibration of pounding a nail (sheet rock, plaster, stucco, around
windows, etc.) you may wish to use screws to avoid collateral damage.
Rock
<TheCentralSc...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:slrn8agpgu.1nh.TheCe...@localhost.localdomain...
mike
with 5/4 decking it seemed to split the wood way to much also the screw
heads never seem to blend in
Dave A. Homeowner
TheCentralSc...@pobox.com wrote:
> For me, I always used screws for one reason: I can't hammer a nail to
> save my life. I probably waste 80% of the nails I attempt to hammer. :-)
>
> Maybe I need a little compressor and a nail gun.
Or a better hammer! While sentiment may lead you towards using the
1920's-era hammer that Great-Grandpa used to build the family homestead,
years of use have rounded the head to such an extent that no one (except
perhaps Great-Grandpa <g>) could hammer a nail with it.
My point is this: Even a slightly rounded the hammer head will result in
bent nails. While it may not look that bad to you, an old (or new but
cheap) hammer head will have enough of a rounded surface to seriously
impair your ability to hammer nails without bending them.
A good craftsman never blames his tools, but he also knows when they've
outlived their usefulness.
Eric Holderbaum
go get a new one. Boy do I hate tool shopping ;o)
"Dave A. Homeowner" <per...@eznet.net> wrote in message
news:38A97BD5...@eznet.net...
Dave A. Homeowner
Eric Holderbaum wrote:
>
> You know thats a good point, my hammer is getting on in years I think I'll
> go get a new one. Boy do I hate tool shopping ;o)
>
Back...get away...a pox on your soul...Get out...you're banished from
a.h.r.
He hates tool shopping...somebody get me the smelling salts...I'm
feeling woozy.
Oh My...Oh My...THUD!
I believe an intervention is in order here. This man obviously needs a
rehab session at the Tim Allen "Auuuughhhh, Auuuuughhhhh
AUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! More Power" Halfway House for the Tool
Impaired.
Michael Edelman
They do, and they hold properly if you use the right screws and attach
them properly.
Dave A. Homeowner
lame? You're not looking to make any friends here, are you?
I wonder how much more it would cost to build one of the houses you
bought if it wasn't built by "lame people" who use nails. I'll bet you
wouldn't be the landlord of one of them. Nope, you'd be right where you
are, going back and forth to crappy houses that the lame and lazy built
with nails, because you couldn't afford a house that was screwed
together.
I'd really be interested to hear some of the places you think screws
would be the first choice. Baseboard trim? Crown molding? Stud wall
construction? Joist hangers? You did say "almost always" right? Take a
walk around one of your "built by the lame folk" properties and tell us
where you would have used screws to get you to the "almost always" point
of screws over nails. Of course there are places where screws would be
better, but "almost always"? In house construction? From a cost-benefit
perspective? I don't think so.
Oh, wait...did I misunderstand your post? Were you just making
over-emotional generalizations about the copious use of screws over
nails and about the people who actually built the houses you own? Sorry
if I took your words at face value.
Eric Gunnerson
news:38A77E...@ix.netcom.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> What are the advantages/disadvantages of using nails vs. screws? I can
> think of one example in my home where screws might have been better to
> use than nails. The previous owner of my home built a deck using nails.
> It's actually pretty nice, but a couple of the boards have slightly
> warped on the ends, causing the nails to pop up. It would seem like
> screws would have been much more secure.
>
> On the whole, I would tend to use screws over nails. What are the
> advantages and disadvantages of each?
Nails are strong on shear force, weak on tension. Screws are strong on both.
On a specific application, look at what the forces are. If the weight and/or
movement of the structure would try to pull a nail out, then screws and/or a
change of design are in order. If there is no force pulling the nail out,
then nails are fine.
Screws are more expensive and take longer to put in, though they do allow
disassembly. They also can be put on without a lot of banging, which is hard
to do with a nail unless you're using a nail gun.
Decks are a good example where normal nails are bad; the boards twist, and
they pull the ails up. Drywall is another example; shrinking boards can
cause nail pops.
GLT
>
> > For me, I always used screws for one reason: I can't hammer a nail to
> > save my life. I probably waste 80% of the nails I attempt to hammer.
:-)
> >
> > Maybe I need a little compressor and a nail gun.
>
> Or a better hammer! While sentiment may lead you towards using the
> 1920's-era hammer that Great-Grandpa used to build the family homestead,
> years of use have rounded the head to such an extent that no one (except
> perhaps Great-Grandpa <g>) could hammer a nail with it.
>
> bent nails. While it may not look that bad to you, an old (or new but
> cheap) hammer head will have enough of a rounded surface to seriously
> impair your ability to hammer nails without bending them.
>
circumstances. Greg
John Coggins
Daniel Hicks wrote:
>
> Actually, too flat of a hammer head can likewise cause problems. The
> head should be slightly rounded, but not too much.
almil
as the lazy using nails and the "bright and intelligent" (adlib) using
screws. As far as not needing a drill or screw gun for nails, what about
hauling 50' of 3/8" rubber hose with an 8lb nail gun attached to the end of
it. I'm pretty damn sure my cordless "drill" is a whole lot lighter than
that. And if not a nail gun "some still do it this way" :) then swinging
a hammer all day. My first construction job, when I was 14, was nailing
down, with a "lazyman's" hammer, a 60' x 20' 2x6 deck. I worked my ass off
and didn't feel at all lazy. Also, I've built homes with no nails or screws
(well very few anyway) now I suppose you think I must be really lazy. No
nails or screws? Try custom fitting pegs and wedges for a timber frame
after hauling 4x8x20' beams up 2 stories. Well enough of this conversation
I refuse to match wits with someone as unarmed as yourself. Know what your
talking about before you make an ass of yourself. If you have so much
"tenant abuse" (I really do feel bad for you **sarcasm**) get out of the
business.
btw Nails are only about .79 / lb compared to $2 and above / lb for decent
bugle head screws.
"Richard Castleberry" <castl...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:38ADC114...@rocketmail.com...
> Sounds like we have found another person who pounds nails
> for a living! If you had to return (call backs?) over and over
> to deal with all the tenant abuse that I do, you would change
> your tune.
> Richard
Richard Castleberry
you spend less to do it poorly!
Richard
Richard Castleberry
than I do about nailing.
Richard
almil wrote:
> I wonder what his house is held together with?????
> Screws? Unlikely.
>
> "Dave A. Homeowner" <per...@eznet.net> wrote in message
> news:38af51af...@news.eznet.net...
> > On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:00:53 -0800, Richard Castleberry
> > <castl...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Sounds like we have found another person who pounds nails
> > > for a living!
> >
> > Pretty bad conclusion! No, I don't pound nails for a living. But I
> > have swung a hammer, used a screwdriver/screwgun and (most importantly
> > in regards to this thread) also have some common sense when I think
> > about the building trade.
> >
> > How about answering the question I asked, specifically:
> >
> > >> I'd really be interested to hear some of the places you think screws
> > >> would be the first choice. Baseboard trim? Crown molding? Stud wall
> > >> construction? Joist hangers? You did say "almost always" right?
> >
> > Or perhaps you could answer this question: What are your tenants
> > destroying that would have held up better with screws?
> >
> > > If you had to return (call backs?) over and over
> > > to deal with all the tenant abuse that I do, you would change
> > > your tune.
> >
> > Did you ever consider that the problem doesn't lie with the fastener
> > that was chosen, but actually lies in your choice of tenants? I have
> > lived in apartments and many of my friends are landlords. I have never
> > had to call the landlord because nails were falling out all over the
> > place and I have never heard any of my landlord friends lamenting the
> > choice of fasteners with respects to the repairs their property has
> > needed. Perhaps you are just a lousy judge of tenants...you keep
> > picking people who can't live in a house that was build using a
> > process that has withstood the test of time. Or maybe you keep buying
> > crappy houses.
> >
> > Then again, if they are indeed "call backs" perhaps you aren't doing a
> > very good job of repairing what was broken in the first place. Maybe
> > the nails aren't at fault, maybe it's the landlord.
Richard Castleberry
ideas. Read a few of the other responses to this
thread and maybe you'll give some thought to
expanding your options.
By the way, I'm proud of myself for resisting
the temptation to say 'screw you!'
Richard
anol...@my-deja.com
more traditional nails and/or screws. Advantages and disadvantages,
installation experiences, do's and don'ts, are all needed and wanted. In
particular I am wondering what kind of a job clips do at keeping boards
from cupping. I would think that nails/screws are likely to do better
at this. While my deck lumber is select it is far from free of twist,
warp and even some cup and this is before I have put it down!
One other issue for consideration: the lumber came from the mill S4S.
I don't think it will be a good idea to put it down this way due to the
potential for splitting along the edge. I thought I might mill it with
my router and use either a chamfering bit or a round-over. Since this
is a lot of work for me I want to make sure I don't regret having gone
one way or the other at a later date. I like the idea of the chamfer as
I think it would be visually more appealing than the round-over, but I
cannot help but wonder about the susceptibiity to splitting.
Thanks all ...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
TW
From my experience, cupping is best controlled by
selecting narrow over wide boards and laying the boards
bark-side up. When bark side is up, the boards tend to
cup downward, leaving a rounded surface rather than two
upturned edges.
Mike Watson
anol...@my-deja.com wrote in message <896goi$1qv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...