Re: how to level a long chalkline?
David Nebenzahl
> In article
> <0d359140-a84c-49af...@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Water levels are a great tool and is the only way I know of to
>> level around a corner but need some care.
>>
>> 1. The entire line must be in the same condition, i.e., all in sun
>> or all in shade.
>
> Utter nonsense.
Amen. This ain't the Hubble Telescope.
>> 2. There can be no air bubbles in the line.
>
> If you fill it the way I described, there won't be.
>
>> Personally, I would use a laser for the OP's use. They are not
>> expensive and will be used many times if the OP does much carpentry
>> over the years.
>
> Phooey. Even the "cheap" ones are an order of magnitude more
> expensive than 35 feet of vinyl tubing, and they're MUCH less
> accurate. With a steady hand and a sharp eye -- and a sharp pencil --
> it's easy to get +/- 1/32" with a water level. Ever look at the
> specs on the consumer-grade laser levels they sell at home centers?
> Typical is +/- 1/4" at 25 or 30 feet; I saw one at Sears a few years
> ago labelled as "accurate within 1/2%". That doesn't sound too bad
> until you do the math: that's an error of an INCH AND A HALF at 25
> feet.
Yep. I second that emotion.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
David Nebenzahl
> On Jun 16, 12:24 pm, Joe <jbob...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 16, 3:16 am, ben <benj...@pookmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can
>>> make sure it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>>
>>> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>>
>> I have a small 'line level' that simply hooks into the center of the
>> chalk line. With one end firmly attached, the other end of the line
>> can be raised or lowered incrementally until level. Only takes
>> minutes, seems perfectly accurate and IIRC it cost about $5 or so at
>> local lumber yard, hardware store or Ace, maybe. First time I saw one
>> being used was a siding installation crew. Ought to work for you.
>
> The trick with a line level is to level the 2 end points over a long
> distance, then remove the level and pull the chalkline taut between
> the 2 points before snapping.
Yes.
> Over 27' feet, the level is going to bow the line downward
> significantly, so the only 2 level points along the line will be at
> the very ends.
27 feet feet?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Always amuses me when I see constructs like "$27
million dollars".
Brought to you by your Department of Redundancy Department.
DerbyDad03
>
> - Show quoted text -
It was a typo, not a "construct".
I'll try to live up to your standards next time.
David Nebenzahl
> On Jun 16, 1:30 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 6/16/2009 10:12 AM DerbyDad03 spake thus:
>>
>>> Over 27' feet, the level is going to bow the line downward
>>> significantly, so the only 2 level points along the line will be at
>>> the very ends.
>>
>> 27 feet feet?
>>
>> Sorry, couldn't resist. Always amuses me when I see constructs like "$27
>> million dollars".
>>
>> Brought to you by your Department of Redundancy Department.
>
> It was a typo, not a "construct".
OK.
> I'll try to live up to your standards next time.
Then what will we do for amusement?
Doug Miller
>I have a small 'line level' that simply hooks into the center of the
>chalk line. With one end firmly attached, the other end of the line
>can be raised or lowered incrementally until level. Only takes
>minutes, seems perfectly accurate and IIRC it cost about $5 or so at
>local lumber yard, hardware store or Ace, maybe. First time I saw one
>being used was a siding installation crew. Ought to work for you.
Over any distance at all, the line level weighs enough to sag the line
substantially -- which means that it won't give an accurate reading unless you
have it in the *exact center* of the line.
DerbyDad03
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your posts? <g>
Frank
> On Jun 16, 7:10 am, Frank <frank.logu...@dol.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 16, 4:16 am, ben <benj...@pookmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
>>> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
>>> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
>>> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
>>> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>>> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>> Don't know if this helps but kids bought me a laser Straightline.
>> Laser light puts out a straight line and the small unit has leveling
>> bubbles. Don't think they are expensive.
>
> Unless they've improved the Straightline product line recently, they
> are not much help.
>
> The bubble is so much smaller than the space between the 2 lines that
> you have to eyeball it to choose your own center. Over 27' any
> eyeballing of a crappy bubble level just isn't going to be accurate.
You're probably right. I've never used it. The plastic tubing or hose
method would be the best to use.
DerbyDad03
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's what's always bothered me about the design of some laser
levels.
It's not that they aren't usable due to the small bubble that bothers
me the most (yes, that sucks) but it's more the fact that the
manufacturers actually produce them like that.
Who were the test users? Anybody who has actually used a level would
have picked up on the problem the first time they tried to use the
device. Sure, it shoots a nice straight line, but if the user has to
guess as to whether the unit itself is level or not, what good is it?
The few times I've used mine, other than to have fun with the cat,
I've laid it on top of a torpedo level with a decent sized bubble.
Oren
wrote:
>With a steady hand and a
>sharp eye -- and a sharp pencil -- it's easy to get +/- 1/32" with a water
>level.
That's dang close! "Looks good from my house!" <g>
ben
line? reviewers say it works ok outdoors as long as it's in shade.
Oren
wrote:
>How can I level this?
Saw this the other day. Made with aviation materials.
Short video:
http://www.chhanson.com/layoutLevel.html
"Stop squinting at the bubble"
Doug Miller
>"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>For 27' feet? You won't even be close at the end.
>
>If he uses the chalk line to make sure he's parallel with ALL of the dashed
>lines, including lines near the end which are vertically aligned using the
>top of the panel as a measuring reference, why wouldn't it be close at the
>end?
>
Any small error in marking is magnified as the number of marks increases. So
is any small error in the level itself.
A water level is dirt cheap to make and dirt simple to use, and its accuracy
rivals that of professional surveying equipment. Why use anything else?
benick
"ben" <ben...@pookmail.com> wrote in message
news:1370833b-dacd-4076...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>
>
Get a 6 foot level and a pencil...It's not rocket science...Gesh....
DerbyDad03
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT), ben <benj...@pookmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >How can I level this?
>
> Saw this the other day. Made with aviation materials.
>
> Short video:
>
> http://www.chhanson.com/layoutLevel.html
>
> "Stop squinting at the bubble"
re: "Made with aviation materials."
Really? Where did you get that from?
Oren
From the link. Aviation technology is mentioned.
Might be something from war planes and instruments panels
Maybe even NASA, but I looked. Take a gander.
Brandon McCombs
Recommending a product that you've never used? Genius.
DerbyDad03
re: "Take a gander"
I did. That's why I asked "Where did you that from?"
Go back, take another gander yourself and then come back and tell us
what he *really* said.
SteveB
>
>> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
>> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
>> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
>> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make
>> sure
>> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>>
>> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
Water level or laser. Laser is simple. Water level will get it close as a
gnat's whisker. Water level is cheaper, and you will use it on a lot of
more projects. Easy to master, simple in principle. A good laser is also
good, but you have to spend $$$ for a good one.
Steve
SteveB
"benick" <ben...@fairpoint.net> wrote in message
news:Iq-dnbLTesdJq6XX...@neonova.net...
Six foot level on a 20 foot run?
Gesh (sic)
Winston
> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
As DanG mentioned, you could measure from a consistent height on
the building. A story pole is in order:
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/PDF/Free/021197070.pdf
--Winston
Smitty Two
<33d870e5-062e-4375...@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
It's loosely based on an attitude indicator, which indicates pitch and
roll. But the A.I. relies on a gyroscope, something I didn't see
mentioned on that gadget.
Oren
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>I did. That's why I asked "Where did you that from?"
>
>Go back, take another gander yourself and then come back and tell us
>what he *really* said.
I stand corrected. It was "inspired" by Aviation technology and not
made from actual Aviation instruments. Thanks for the correction.
benick
"SteveB" <old...@deepends.com> wrote in message
news:h5dmg6-...@news.infowest.com...
Ok I'll spell it out for you...You take the 6 foot level , get the bubble
between the 2 lines and mark it with a pensil..Slide the level down to the
edg of your line and repeat the process 4 times ..DONE..Cut the rotting
T111 off...Gesh...Why make a project of something as simple as that..It will
be close enough for the eye...He is only cutting off rotting wood , not
laying out a foundation....
SteveB
Hey, cut it with a butter knife, I don't care. Sounds like plumb and level
are terms not in your vocabulary.
Steve
DerbyDad03
> "benick" <ben...@fairpoint.net> wrote in message
>
> news:CfmdnQ_wmLL3FaTX...@neonova.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> >news:h5dmg6-...@news.infowest.com...
>
> >> "benick" <ben...@fairpoint.net> wrote in message
> >>news:Iq-dnbLTesdJq6XX...@neonova.net...
>
> >>>news:1370833b-dacd-4076...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> >>>> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
> >>>> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
> >>>> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
> >>>> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> >>>> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> >>>> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>
> >>> Get a 6 foot level and a pencil...It's not rocket science...Gesh....
>
> >> Six foot level on a 20 foot run?
>
> >> Gesh (sic)
>
> > Ok I'll spell it out for you...You take the 6 foot level , get the bubble
> > between the 2 lines and mark it with a pensil..Slide the level down to the
> > edg of your line and repeat the process 4 times ..DONE..Cut the rotting
> > T111 off...Gesh...Why make a project of something as simple as that..It
> > will be close enough for the eye...He is only cutting off rotting wood ,
> > not laying out a foundation....
>
> Hey, cut it with a butter knife, I don't care. Sounds like plumb and level
> are terms not in your vocabulary.
>
> Steve
Measure with a micrometer
Mark with chalk
Cut with an ax
harry k
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:00:27 -0600, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"benick" <ben...@fairpoint.net> wrote in message
> >news:CfmdnQ_wmLL3FaTX...@neonova.net...
>
> >>news:h5dmg6-...@news.infowest.com...
>
> >>> "benick" <ben...@fairpoint.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:Iq-dnbLTesdJq6XX...@neonova.net...
>
> >>>>news:1370833b-dacd-4076...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
> >>>>> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
> >>>>> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
> >>>>> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> >>>>> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> >>>>> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>
> >>>> Get a 6 foot level and a pencil...It's not rocket science...Gesh....
>
> >>> Six foot level on a 20 foot run?
>
> >>> Gesh (sic)
>
> >> Ok I'll spell it out for you...You take the 6 foot level , get the bubble
> >> between the 2 lines and mark it with a pensil..Slide the level down to the
> >> edg of your line and repeat the process 4 times ..DONE..Cut the rotting
> >> T111 off...Gesh...Why make a project of something as simple as that..It
> >> will be close enough for the eye...He is only cutting off rotting wood ,
> >> not laying out a foundation....
>
> >Hey, cut it with a butter knife, I don't care. Sounds like plumb and level
> >are terms not in your vocabulary.
>
> >Steve
>
> chalk line. Then measure a couple places in the middle as a sanity
> check. "Level" is not as important as being the same as the roof line,
> That will be the visual reference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Exactly! My roof line on one side looks great. Just don't try to
level anything to it. New gutters had to be installed with drain on
"wrong" end (for me) due to that.
Harry K
George
> I'm cutting off the bottom 20" of my t1-11 panel siding to replace it
> and want to cut it off straight. The bottom edges of the siding are
> rotten, so I can't just measure up from those 20" as a guide. So I
> bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
>
Use a water level to mark as many reference marks as necessary and
connect the marks with a straightedge.
Doug Miller
>Measure with a micrometer
>Mark with chalk
>Cut with an ax
and hammer to fit.
ben
iwdplz
these along the entire length (like a dashed line). Then use any straight
edge to extend the dashes to the full 27' so the full line is parallel to
all of them. You might be able to use the top edge of the panel as a
vertical guide..
DanG
to pull a lot of tension to keep the say out of a line 27' long,
plan on several snaps.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgri...@7cox.net
"ben" <ben...@pookmail.com> wrote in message
news:1370833b-dacd-4076...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Herb Eneva
supply store.
Frank
Don't know if this helps but kids bought me a laser Straightline.
Doug Miller
With a water level.
If the line needs to be 27' long, then get about 30' - 35' of clear vinyl
tubing, and an assistant. Fill the tubing with water (stick one end in a
bucket of water and suck on it til you get a mouthful), then let a little bit
run out. You want a few inches of air space at each end. Make a pencil mark at
one side of the shed where you want the cut line to start. Hold one end of the
tube against the shed, and adjust it until the water level lines up with the
pencil mark. Have your assistant take the pencil and the other end of the tube
to the other side of the shed. Double-check to make sure the water level at
your end is still aligned with the pencil mark, and readjust as needed. When
the water level is stable, have the assistant mark the water level at that
side of the shed. Pull a chalk line across the two marks, and make it tight --
it's going to sag some over 27 feet -- then snap it. Done.
nor...@earthlink.net
Measure down the same distance from the fascia or top of siding (it
might not be level but will look level compared to other lines of the
house). Tack the chalkline at that measured point. Check with bubble
level to see how the line lays. Snap.
Bob M.
news:1370833b-dacd-4076...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Use a rotating laser like ceiling hangers use.
stan
> Use a water level . It is easy to use and is available at any tool
> supply store.
Yes and can be made up (and/or lengthened) by yourself using a hose
pipe and two pieces of clear hose. Tint the water with food colouring
if you wish. The techie modern way of course is to use a laser-level;
a tool which may very useful later on inside and outside a building!
harry k
For 27' feet? You won't even be close at the end.
Harry K
harry k
Water levels are a great tool and is the only way I know of to level
around a corner but need some care.
1. The entire line must be in the same condition, i.e., all in sun or
all in shade.
2. There can be no air bubbles in the line.
Personally, I would use a laser for the OP's use. They are not
expensive and will be used many times if the OP does much carpentry
over the years.
Harry K
Hipupchuck
A laser level.
Doug Miller
>Water levels are a great tool and is the only way I know of to level
>around a corner but need some care.
>
>1. The entire line must be in the same condition, i.e., all in sun or
>all in shade.
Utter nonsense.
>2. There can be no air bubbles in the line.
If you fill it the way I described, there won't be.
>Personally, I would use a laser for the OP's use. They are not
>expensive and will be used many times if the OP does much carpentry
>over the years.
Phooey. Even the "cheap" ones are an order of magnitude more expensive than 35
feet of vinyl tubing, and they're MUCH less accurate. With a steady hand and a
sharp eye -- and a sharp pencil -- it's easy to get +/- 1/32" with a water
level. Ever look at the specs on the consumer-grade laser levels they sell at
home centers? Typical is +/- 1/4" at 25 or 30 feet; I saw one at Sears a few
years ago labelled as "accurate within 1/2%". That doesn't sound too bad until
you do the math: that's an error of an INCH AND A HALF at 25 feet. To get the
kind of accuracy with a laser level that can be easily achieved with a water
level, you need to go beyond consumer-grade units to professional gear costing
many hundreds of dollars.
Doug Miller
>Use a rotating laser like ceiling hangers use.
>
Not very accurate, and probably not visible outdoors....
Doug Miller
>A laser level.
See my response to Harry K regarding laser levels...
Steve Daniels
something compelled ben <ben...@pookmail.com>, to say:
http://www.diyinfo.org/wiki/How_To_Build_A_Simple_But_Effective_Water_Level
--
Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken
Joe
> snip<
> So I bought a chalkline but I now realize, I don't know how I can make sure
> it's level. The length will be about 27'.
>
> How can I level this? Or is there a better way to do this?
I have a small 'line level' that simply hooks into the center of the
chalk line. With one end firmly attached, the other end of the line
can be raised or lowered incrementally until level. Only takes
minutes, seems perfectly accurate and IIRC it cost about $5 or so at
local lumber yard, hardware store or Ace, maybe. First time I saw one
being used was a siding installation crew. Ought to work for you.
Joe
DerbyDad03
Unless they've improved the Straightline product line recently, they
are not much help.
The bubble is so much smaller than the space between the 2 lines that
you have to eyeball it to choose your own center. Over 27' any
eyeballing of a crappy bubble level just isn't going to be accurate.
DerbyDad03
The trick with a line level is to level the 2 end points over a long
distance, then remove the level and pull the chalkline taut between
the 2 points before snapping.
Over 27' feet, the level is going to bow the line downward
significantly, so the only 2 level points along the line will be at
the very ends.
DerbyDad03
It might work if you use a 6' level and 6" increments. <g>
iwdplz
>For 27' feet? You won't even be close at the end.
If he uses the chalk line to make sure he's parallel with ALL of the dashed
lines, including lines near the end which are vertically aligned using the
top of the panel as a measuring reference, why wouldn't it be close at the
end?
Popeye81$
I would find the center of the 27' which is 13.5 and go up 20 inches there .
And go up 20 inches on each end - and then chalk line half one way and the the
other half the other way ... If I made sense ... This is pretty easy stuff
here
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/how-to-level-a-long-chalkline-378891-.htm
DerbyDad03
> replying to ben, Popeye81$ wrote:
> I would find the center of the 27' which is 13.5 and go up 20 inches there .
> And go up 20 inches on each end - and then chalk line half one way and the the
> other half the other way ... If I made sense ... This is pretty easy stuff
> here
>
to the roof. Why didn't you answer sooner?
Oren
<caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:
>replying to ben, Popeye81$ wrote:
>I would find the center of the 27' which is 13.5 and go up 20 inches there .
>And go up 20 inches on each end - and then chalk line half one way and the the
>other half the other way ... If I made sense ... This is pretty easy stuff
>here
from? Own a pencil, how many levels?