Getting ext house painted: Verifying paint used?
gnatbert
getting the quality paint I am paying for, and not some cheap paint poured
into Benjamin Moore cans or buckets?
davefr
in your community. Go look at some of their past jobs and talk to the
homeowners. Ask them for their plan of attack for your home. If your satisfied
with your selection than I wouldn't worry about this issue.
If however you select a lowball "stationwagon" painter or schoolteacher on
holiday who's price is signifacantly cheaper than the others and has little to
offer in the way of reputation/experience/references, than this is just one of
many things I'd be worried about. (ie along with spraying thin, watering down
the paint, improper prep, inadequate liability, etc, etc, etc)
In article <_bk37.100167$HJ1.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, gnatbert
says...
TW
If you have doubts, you furnish the paint.
Dan Hicks
If you have doubts, paint it yourself.
--
Dan Hicks
You can preach a better sermon with your life than with your lips.
--Goldsmith
Unknown
If you have those kinds of doubts you should use a different painter.
If you can't trust the workmen you hire to be honest, don't hire them.
You'll be happier, and chances are so will they.
Jeff
George
from the can he is using. Then I would send it ( via bonded courier) to the
nearest research laboratory to have a chemical analysis done.......One can't
be too careful.
gnatbert <gnat...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_bk37.100167$HJ1.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
gnatbert
<Jeff Cochran> wrote in message
news:28ntktc0dngqds97t...@4ax.com...
I would love to know the percentage of painters out there, who towards the
end of a job when it came down to losing money and buying more paint or
decide to start thinning what they'd already allowed for, chose the latter.
If it is even as high as 25%, I'd say that makes it reasonable enough for
anyone to approach hiring of painters with eye to the fact that not all
painters are honest these days.
gnatbert
Seems like someone skirting on insurance isn't going to tell you that.
"davefr" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:Q3l37.16861$Kf3.2...@www.newsranger.com...
Pat Strong
> I would go out there while he is painting and take a sample of the paint
> from the can he is using. Then I would send it ( via bonded courier) to the
> nearest research laboratory to have a chemical analysis done.......One can't
> be too careful.
>
LOL
That'll sure save him a buck!
Pat
davefr
agent.
At some point in the screening process you have to have some trust.
The painter also needs to have some trust in you unless he charges
100% up front. It's a two way street.
When you take your car to a mechanic do you sit there with a stopwatch
to verify the time spent?
When you go to the store do you write down the price of every item you
buy and compare it to the scanner.
When you go to the doctor do you ask him for his license number and
insurance policy??
davefr
<gnat...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
What profession is staffed with 100% honest people????
You're attitude suggests you'd be better off buying a paint brush and
your own paint and doing it yourself.
Unknown
I'd guess it to be far lower than 25% of licensed contractors. Most
painters will overbuy on paint, buying a second batch later will risk
color changes. Same with thinning paint. they always have some for
touchup, and often leave some for the homeowner.
Jeff
John Hines
If you pay Time and Materials, that takes the incentive to do that away.
If your picky about the materials, then this is what you should do, then
you have your choice of the materials, and there is no reason to skimp.
Dan Hicks
gnatbert wrote:
>
> How do I ensure a painter has adequate insurance other than them telling me?
> Seems like someone skirting on insurance isn't going to tell you that.
--
Dan Hicks
What is done well is done quickly enough. --Augustus Caesar
TinMan1332
>
>gnatbert wrote:
>>
>> How do I ensure a painter has adequate insurance other than them telling
>me?
>> Seems like someone skirting on insurance isn't going to tell you that.
Also you can request that is is an original (with your name on it as the
certificate holder) mailed directly to you by the insurance agent.
A photo can be "doctored" from some old expired policy (or someone elses
policy), so get the certificate directly from their provider.
gnatbert
"davefr" <dav...@Nospam.com> wrote in message
news:b3iuktciar8k5f1ks...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:10:26 -0400, "gnatbert"
> <gnat...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> What profession is staffed with 100% honest people????
>
> You're attitude suggests you'd be better off buying a paint brush and
> your own paint and doing it yourself.
With quotes of $16,000, I may do that. Anybody that is indignant over the
thought that anyone would want to take precautions to ensure they hire
painters with good practices is probably a dishonest painter.
gnatbert
"davefr" <dav...@Nospam.com> wrote in message
> I guess you could ask for the policy number and verify with their ins.
> agent.
>
> At some point in the screening process you have to have some trust.
> The painter also needs to have some trust in you unless he charges
> 100% up front. It's a two way street.
>
> When you take your car to a mechanic do you sit there with a stopwatch
> to verify the time spent?
Guess what? If I had to take a car in to have a $16,000 repair job done on
it, I'd be taking precautions I got a guy who was going to do the job right.
Crazy, isn't it. Why, any old mechanic off the street would surely do. I'm
sure that's what you do, because of course, your not a big fat hypocrite,
right? But me, I'm crazy that way.
> When you go to the store do you write down the price of every item you
> buy and compare it to the scanner.
I haven't bought $16,000 worth of groceries in a while, have you?
> When you go to the doctor do you ask him for his license number and
> insurance policy??
No, thankfully there are agencies that take care of that. If there weren't,
hell yeah I would.
davefr
painter will try and save a couple dollars a gallon by subtituting
inferior paint, than I have news for you. A painter can save way more
than that by scrimping on the prep work and that's way more important
than the brand of paint. You won't even notice it until several years
pass bye.
Your focus needs to be on the screening/interviewing/checking past
jobs area. Get out there and talk to the homeowners and look at a
few jobs the painter did a few years ago.
Good luck.
davefr
need to spend your energy. Once you have the right person for the
job you don't need to monitor their every move. If you're not
confident you have the right person, than you keep screening.
On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:42:17 -0400, "gnatbert"
<gnat...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
zxcvbob
> buy and compare it to the scanner.
>
Yes, I usually do. Oh! Was that a rhetorical question? Nevermind.
Bob
--
"Have you guessed the riddle yet?" the Hatter said, turning
to Alice again. "No, I give it up," Alice replied. "What's the answer?"
"I haven't the slightest idea," said the Hatter.
Unknown
>> your own paint and doing it yourself.
>
>With quotes of $16,000, I may do that. Anybody that is indignant over the
>thought that anyone would want to take precautions to ensure they hire
>painters with good practices is probably a dishonest painter.
Sixteen grand, what are you painting? I had my mother's 2400 square
foot house painted inside and out for $4,600. That was the middle of
the road as far as quotes went, I chose the painters because they went
to her church and knew her and her friends personally. They did an
excellent job and have gotten referrals from us many times over the
last three years.
I rejected the lowest bid because they seemed shady. I didn't trust
them not to skimp on paint or prep. My trust in the crew that did the
work was well-founded, they even replaced a short piece of exterior
trim at no charge that wasn't in their contract. It probably cost
them $5 and a few minutes labor, but that trim piece has been my
selling point when I recommend them.
If you are really concerned, ignore all the advice here and sit and
watch every move of the painting crew. You'll never be satisfied
until you do.
Jeff
Dan Hicks
>
> "davefr" <dav...@Nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:9ghukt8ce3i0vedn9...@4ax.com...
> > to verify the time spent?
>
> Guess what? If I had to take a car in to have a $16,000 repair job done on
> it, I'd be taking precautions I got a guy who was going to do the job right.
> Crazy, isn't it. Why, any old mechanic off the street would surely do. I'm
> sure that's what you do, because of course, your not a big fat hypocrite,
> right? But me, I'm crazy that way.
When I take my car in for repairs I take it to someone I trust. He's a
little more expensive than the others but he always does a good job and
he stands behind his work.
--
Dan Hicks
He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope.
-Coleridge
gnatbert
"TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010713220446...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
Thanks. That's good advice. This is a tall house. There are parts that
mean getting on peak of steep metal roof to paint. You fall, you die.
I told an painter just today on an estimate that I would like a certificate
of insurance. He showed me on he had folded up that was apparently to some
customer he had had. Then he said most people don't ask for them, and that
he had a church that had asked... I don't care about that. I have no doubt
most poople don't know to ask. That's not the point. Anyway, if he wanted
to raise a red flag with me, he did a good job when he said most people
don't ask for them. As if that should asuage me. Now I know to tell them
all up front specifically, have your insurance company send me a certificate
of insurance. I suppose if I get one from them, I could call the insurance
company to send me verification. But contrary to anyone that is indignant
at the thought of a property owner asking for proof of insurance, I have no
plans to be so irresponsible to put myself at risk. That's plain stupid.
So far, with the two estimates I got from guys who I know have some pretty
lofty customers in this city that own some expensive old homes, well those
guys I didn't even have to ask, they brought it up themselves-- in fact, it
was the first of these guys that brought it to my attention to make sure I
ask. That silly indignation I'm getting from some two-bits on here is
laughable.
Dan Hicks
>
> "TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010713220446...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
> > >They provide you with a certificate of insurance from their insurer.
> > >
> > >gnatbert wrote:
> > >>
> > >> How do I ensure a painter has adequate insurance other than them
> telling
> > >me?
> > >> Seems like someone skirting on insurance isn't going to tell you that.
> >
> > Also you can request that is is an original (with your name on it as the
> > certificate holder) mailed directly to you by the insurance agent.
> >
> > A photo can be "doctored" from some old expired policy (or someone elses
> > policy), so get the certificate directly from their provider.
>
> Thanks. That's good advice. This is a tall house. There are parts that
> mean getting on peak of steep metal roof to paint. You fall, you die.
Niggling over an insurance certificate for a small job isn't worth it,
but I would definitely insist on one when contracting for a full house
painting job where there are significant hazards involved, as is the
case you describe.
I've heard it said (but can't say for a fact) that the insurance
companies charge for certificates of insurance. Also, insurance costs
are based in part on how much business the contractor does, and
obviously many would like to be able to report less work than they
actually do. Clearly if every job gets a certificate, it's hard to
underreport the amount of work done. These are the reasons why
contractors who actually have insurance would resist supplying a
certificate. That and the fact that they simply don't like fooling with
paperwork.
--
Dan Hicks
Experience is a good school, but the fees are high. --Heinrich Heine
gnatbert
"Dan Hicks" <danh...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:3B50F2DB...@ieee.org...
> gnatbert wrote:
> >
> > "TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20010713220446...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
> > > >They provide you with a certificate of insurance from their insurer.
> > > >
> > > >gnatbert wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> How do I ensure a painter has adequate insurance other than them
> > telling
> > > >me?
> > > >> Seems like someone skirting on insurance isn't going to tell you
that.
> > >
> > > Also you can request that is is an original (with your name on it as
the
> > > certificate holder) mailed directly to you by the insurance agent.
> > >
> > > A photo can be "doctored" from some old expired policy (or someone
elses
> > > policy), so get the certificate directly from their provider.
> >
> > Thanks. That's good advice. This is a tall house. There are parts
that
> > mean getting on peak of steep metal roof to paint. You fall, you die.
>
> I've heard it said (but can't say for a fact) that the insurance
> companies charge for certificates of insurance. Also, insurance costs
> are based in part on how much business the contractor does, and
> obviously many would like to be able to report less work than they
> actually do. Clearly if every job gets a certificate, it's hard to
> underreport the amount of work done. These are the reasons why
> contractors who actually have insurance would resist supplying a
> certificate
Thanks. But far be it for anyone to impugn the honesty of any painters.
Why they are all honest to a "T"! I'm shocked and appauled at such an
accusation. (did I lay that on thick enough for you to make my point in
light of recent posts?)
TinMan1332
>Thanks. That's good advice. This is a tall house. There are parts that
>mean getting on peak of steep metal roof to paint. You fall, you die.
>
>I told an painter just today on an estimate that I would like a certificate
>of insurance. He showed me on he had folded up that was apparently to some
>customer he had had. Then he said most people don't ask for them, and that
>he had a church that had asked... I don't care about that. I have no doubt
>most poople don't know to ask. That's not the point. Anyway
It takes one phone call. The painter, (handyman, contractor, etc.) can make the
call right there on the site (at the moment of the request) and have his agent
mail or fax you a copy (with your name as the holder).
My insurance provider gets them out in the mail the same day so the customer
has them as soon as the next day (for sure by the 3rd day) or they can be faxed
and then the "hard copy" mailed.
TinMan1332
>companies charge for certificates of insurance.
A rumour probably started by someone too lazy to call and have one sent. Never
has a laibility insurance provider charged me for a cetrificate (and if they
did, so what... what's the point in having insurance if you can't prove it).
> Also, insurance costs
>are based in part on how much business the contractor does, and
>obviously many would like to be able to report less work than they
>actually do.
The insurance company may audit certain liability policy holders every year or
they may make "spot" audits on some policies each year. One has to produce
nearly the same documents that one produces for an IRS audit. Getting a few
certificates isn't going to alter the outcome.
Insurance policy costs are based more on number of employees, type of work done
(in the case of painters; spray painting changes things a lot), amount of work
sub-contracted (proof of sub-contractor liability insurance and workman's comp
is required by the primary's carrier) and the total $$ volume of annual gross
sales.