bleeder valve cap nut.

[micky]

My garden faucets each have a valve in the pipe going to them which has
a built-in bleeder valve, to drain the water in the pipe after the water
to the pipe is turned off.

The bleeder valve is opened by unscrewing a cap nut. The cap nut on one
is damaged -- most of the knurling is gone -- and it's impossible to
turn without pliers and I think eventually I will crush the nut.

Can I put on a replacement if I do? IIRC I'm almost certain there was
a stopping point that will make it hard to take the nut all the way off
(a convenience when I'm up on a ladder and there's lots of junk below me
to lose the nut in, but maybe a big inconvience if I need to remove
replace the nut) and would make it hard to put another back on?

Without a cap nut, I won't be able to turn on the water to the faucet
outside, because it will drip or run constantly. Surely they thought
of this and sell replacement cap nuts but I don't know what to search
for. Googling, I'm not even sure bleeder is the right word.

Standard copper pipe for a 1980 house garden faucet is 1/2", right?

[nestork]

Micky:

Everything depends on who made the valve. If it was made in the USA or
Canada, like Nibco, you should be able to buy the "Drain Cap" as a
part.

Nibco's distributor in Canada is NCI Canada:

'Welcome to NCI Canada' (http://www.ncicanada.com/)

I would phone them up and find out what the standard threads used on
drain caps are. On all of the valves with drains I've ever had any
experience with, there is nothing preventing the cap from coming off
entirely. You just keep turning it counter clockwise, and it should
come off. Take that drain cap off an take it to any place that
specializes in fasteners, and see if they can measure the threads on it
for you. If you can relate the thread information to someone at NCI,
I'd expect they would have a drain cap to replace the one you have. Get
the part number because you'll need that to order them. Maybe get
several cuz they do fall and get lost.

NCI is a distributor. They don't deal with the public. Maybe speak to
someone on NCI's order desk to find out which companies in your area
order from NCI on a regular basis, and then order the drain caps from
that local wholesaler or retailer.

I don't know who the Nibco distributor in your area is, but Nibco or
even NCI Canada should be able to tell you.

'Where to Buy' (http://www.nibco.com/Where-To-Buy/)

The above web page has a link to Nibco tech support. If you just
explain your situation, they should be able to tell you what standard
threads are used for drains, and hopefully Nibco has replacement caps
that use that thread size.




--
nestork

[micky]

On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:49:38 +0100, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>
>Micky:
>
>Everything depends on who made the valve. If it was made in the USA or
>Canada, like Nibco, you should be able to buy the "Drain Cap" as a
>part.

Thanks for your detailed answer.

>
>Nibco's distributor in Canada is NCI Canada:
>
>'Welcome to NCI Canada' (http://www.ncicanada.com/)
>
>I would phone them up and find out what the standard threads used on
>drain caps are. On all of the valves with drains I've ever had any
>experience with, there is nothing preventing the cap from coming off
>entirely. You just keep turning it counter clockwise, and it should
>come off.

Googling for drain cap I found one that is definitely hot mine, but it
uses the description "Knurled cap is crimped to valve body to prevent
accidental removal." So I have a feeling mine is like that, although
it's been 30 years since I turned it that far and I might be recalling
something else. Still, I'm sure i can force the old one off and a new
one on. (well the new one won't be crimped.) But I have to shut the
water off. If I'm going to do that anyway, I should do it no later than
tomorrow.

> Take that drain cap off an take it to any place that
>specializes in fasteners, and see if they can measure the threads on it
>for you. If you can relate the thread information to someone at NCI,
>I'd expect they would have a drain cap to replace the one you have. Get
>the part number because you'll need that to order them. Maybe get
>several cuz they do fall and get lost.
>
>NCI is a distributor. They don't deal with the public. Maybe speak to
>someone on NCI's order desk to find out which companies in your area
>order from NCI on a regular basis, and then order the drain caps from
>that local wholesaler or retailer.
>
>I don't know who the Nibco distributor in your area is, but Nibco or
>even NCI Canada should be able to tell you.
>
>'Where to Buy' (http://www.nibco.com/Where-To-Buy/)

Well they listed Home Depot and Lowes. That's good, because they're
here, bad because last I looked they both had terrible webpages.

>
>The above web page has a link to Nibco tech support. If you just
>explain your situation, they should be able to tell you what standard
>threads are used for drains, and hopefully Nibco has replacement caps
>that use that thread size.

Starting with the words you gave me, I found another link, that teaches
me some new words: Waste Cap And Washer, and drainable valve. Much
better than using "bleeder valve". This page sells a retail display
card with 3 different sizes for $1.71. Cheap enough! Plus $8 dollar
shipping. I'll look around here <grin>
http://www.essentialhardware.com/product_detail.php?pid=128550&gclid=CLu_0NeD7rsCFQ7xOgodfH0AgA

"Waste cap" sure seems like the wrong word, and seaching for waste cap
and the sku from the page above yielded exactly one link, the page
above!!

I put waste cap into a home depot search, because I do the least likely
to work first, yet it yielded
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-5-16-in-and-3-8-in-Valve-Waste-Caps-2-Pack-VACCAPW2B/202369992?keyword=waste+cap#
A 2-pack for 75 cents. The webpage say Store Only,

Unlike the first webpage, which showed the hole in each one through
which the "waste" water drains, the picture of these two puts the holes
where they can't be seen, and the product overview doesn't really say
what it is, If I didn't know what it probably is, I'd have no idea.

The Homewerks Worldwide Valve Waste Caps (2-Pack) feature brass
construction for durability. The caps are 5/16 in. and 3/8 in. and have
a maximum working pressure of 150 psi.
Brass construction
Maximum working pressure of 150 psi
Maximum working temperature of 180 degrees Fahrenheit
Includes 5/16 in. cap and 3/8 in. cap

Home Depot's webpage is so bad. I looked at something which was
supposed to be rated by amps or watts or something and it only gave the
dimensions, that is, the dimensions of the box it came in.

But for 75 cents, I'll buy a pack. It can never remember what my store
is. It thinks I live on the other side of town. But the one near me has
20 in stock. That's more than enough. (other stores have 40 or 15, etc.)
When I get there I'll be able to see if there is a hole in each cap. If
there's no hole, maybe I'll drill one.

No way to set the store near me, listed on the screen, as my store.
Maybe if I buy one, I'll be able to.

I ordered one at the store near me, but somehow I now have two in my
shopping cart, one at the store near me and one at the store they think
is my store. I remove one.

Thanks a lot. Without the phrase drain cap, I never would have found
this. I would never call this little cap a waste cap.

[micky]

On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 03:04:27 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>I put waste cap into a home depot search, because I do the least likely
>to work first, yet it yielded
>http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-5-16-in-and-3-8-in-Valve-Waste-Caps-2-Pack-VACCAPW2B/202369992?keyword=waste+cap#
>A 2-pack for 75 cents. The webpage say Store Only,

Tried 'waste cap" at Lowes and the phrase worked there too. Item
description is below. This is not about waste, it's about draining.
The fact that the water drained is probably wasted shouldn't change
that.

OTOH, "drain cap" doesn't work -- it found 10 things but not this --
even though the Model # below, that the first search found, is DRAIN
CAPS. So searching on drain cap won't find DRAIN CAPS. Ugh.

Searching on DRAIN CAPS, the page immediately changed it to lower case,
and found the same 10 things the previous search found, but not the
model named DRAIN CAPS. Didn't I tell you that Lowes webpage was still
bad. I think a bunch of these people were on loan to Obamacare.


AMERICAN VALVE Brass Waste Valve Replacement Part

Item #: 22257 | Model #: DRAIN CAPS

$2.70

Almost 4 times the price. Probably better? HD is a lot closer
though.

The holes show in the picture, but otoh, the gaskets showed in the HD
picture, They looked awfully thick. OTOH, the holes are more
important if you don't know what

[tra...@optonline.net]

Just take the cap to a plumbing supply and show it to them.

If it were me, I'd consider buying a frost-proof sillcock and installing
it.

[TomR]

tra...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:40:19 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 03:04:27 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

>> . . . ,

>> The holes show in the picture, but otoh, the gaskets showed in the HD
>> picture, They looked awfully thick. OTOH, the holes are more
>> important if you don't know what

> Just take the cap to a plumbing supply and show it to them.

I agree. Or, just take the bleeder cap to an Ace Hardware, other hardware
store, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and my guess is that they will have them. I
think they sometimes have 2 sizes to choose from, but just go there with the
original bleeder cap and look.

[micky]

On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:14:48 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>>
>> The holes show in the picture, but otoh, the gaskets showed in the HD
>>
>> picture, They looked awfully thick.

Because they're not gaskets. they're circles of rubber. The old one is
compressed around the perimeter to 1/4 or 1/10th its original thickness.

OTOH, the holes are more
>>
>> important if you don't know what
>
>
>Just take the cap to a plumbing supply and show it to them.
>
>If it were me, I'd consider buying a frost-proof sillcock and installing
>it.

Trader, I've considered getting a frost-proof sillcock, but first I
wanted to ask my neighbors what they do to prevent freezing. I have a
hard time believing they all drain the pipes every years, so maybe it
never freezes. They do sell them at the local HD, so some must be
using them. They have 6, 8, 10, and 12 inch models. I have to
measure how thick the wall is.

[micky]

On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 03:04:27 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 06:49:38 +0100, nestork
><nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Micky:
>>
>>Everything depends on who made the valve. If it was made in the USA or
>>Canada, like Nibco, you should be able to buy the "Drain Cap" as a
>>part.
>
>Thanks for your detailed answer.
>>
>>Nibco's distributor in Canada is NCI Canada:
>>
>>'Welcome to NCI Canada' (http://www.ncicanada.com/)
>>
>>I would phone them up and find out what the standard threads used on
>>drain caps are. On all of the valves with drains I've ever had any
>>experience with, there is nothing preventing the cap from coming off
>>entirely. You just keep turning it counter clockwise, and it should
>>come off.
>
>Googling for drain cap I found one that is definitely hot mine, but it
>uses the description "Knurled cap is crimped to valve body to prevent
>accidental removal." So I have a feeling mine is like that, although
>it's been 30 years since I turned it that far and I might be recalling
>something else. Still, I'm sure i can force the old one off and a new
>one on. (well the new one won't be crimped.) But I have to shut the
>water off. If I'm going to do that anyway, I should do it no later than
>tomorrow.

Why even wait until tomorrow, which at the time was Wednesday, So
Tuesday night I got on a ladder. I had to use water pump pliers both to
turn the water off and to open the drain.

I realize now that the handle had to be on the other side of the pipe
for the drain hole to be on the bottom. And if was on this side of the
pipe, the handle would be in the way of removing the drain cap.
However, half of the houses in the n'hood are the mirror image of mine,
so the water in the valve has travel to the left instead of right. So
they have to do something else. AFAIK there was only one plumbing
mistake in my house and that is that the bathtub drain used to leak in
the ceiling below. Some other houses were like that. It stopped by
itself after a few years with no harm done.

You were right, the cap was not crimped on. After I turned it two
revolutions or more with the pliers, it unscrewed right off

Only one drop of water came out, so immediately I think the pipe is
frozen. Then I held my hand to the little hole and a little water ran
down my hand. Couldn't judge how much.

Then I thought, is this new water from the pipe or water draining back
from the garden faucet? Finally decided if the valve I just shut was
leaking, there'd be more water.

Noticed the water wasn't cold, but maybe it was still frozen closer to
the outside.

Finally remembered that when I've done this in the past, I close the
inside valve, then open the outside valve. It's not open and that's why
water comes out so slowly. Either that or its frozen. :-)

Wednesday went to HD and there was a whole box of caps, with the picture
with no holes in it, on the front of the box. Been there for years I
think but I don't go over the valves section thoroughly and I never saw
them.

Also looked for valves with drainabilty. They sold one in metal,
labeled on the box, Stop and Waste Valve. for water, oil, or gas.
Someone else who calls it waste. And I found a very nice 1" valve on
the web with this note: "Note Waste Cap May Be Removed To Drain
Downstream Side Of Valve When The Valve Is Closed."

I'm 80 to 90% sure there's no damage. I put a bowl under the valve so I
can get an idea of how much water drips out, It will be 50 by Saturday.

Thanks again.