screwing into aluminum channel

[Graven Water]

Can you screw into aluminum that is 1/8" thick? I know you can screw into
sheet metal, but I wonder if 1/8" thick aluminum would just strip screws.

I found some aluminum channel online that is 1.5" deep and 1.5" wide, with
1/8" thick metal, online and I'm wondering if this would work as channel
to attach drywall to.

If these aluminum channels don't work, perhaps I could use PVC. I found
PVC "1x4" planks at Lowe's, and two of these would give me the 1.5"
thickness, at about the same cost as the aluminum channel. Or maybe there
are PVC "2x2" strips available somewhere. It's in a situation where I
don't want to use wood.

Laura

[tra...@optonline.net]

As long as you don't over torque the screws, I don't see why not. I'm
having a hard
time though trying to figure out the environment where you can use
drywall but
can't use wood, pressure treated for example, to attach it.

[Jim Elbrecht]

pb...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote:

>Can you screw into aluminum that is 1/8" thick? I know you can screw into
>sheet metal, but I wonder if 1/8" thick aluminum would just strip screws.

Self tapping sheet metal screws might be a waste of time, but I've
drilled into 1/8 soft steel with self drilling and self tapping
screws.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-self-drilling-screws/=f596r9

Jim

[Joe]

If you don't want to use wood, use steels studs. The fasteners and all
the trick stuff is on the shelves at the box stores. The studs are
made to carry drywall.

Joe

Joe

[DerbyDad03]

They do make some PVC trim that measures 1 1/2" x 3/4". As long as you
can aim your screws into the 3/4" face, that would give you the 1/5"
spacing you want, or you could use Super Glue and make your own 2 x
2's

Of course, PVC is pretty flexible so keeping it straight from floor to
ceiling is going to be an issue.

2 questions:

1 - Where are you willing to use drywall but not wooden studs?

2 - Is the 1 1/2" a firm requirement? PVC trim comes in all sorts of
sizes that might work if you have some leeway.

[harry]

Have you considered pop rivets (snap rivets/blind rivets)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_rivets#Blind_rivets

[Graven Water]

Yes, the 1.5" thickness is a rigid requirement. +- no more than about
1/8".

So to recap: I'm thinking of using some aluminum channel, 1.5" deep,
1.5" wide, 1/8" thick metal, to mount drywall on a concrete block
wall.

Could I screw into aluminum with deck screws? I would make
pilot holes.

Apparently aluminum may corrode if it's in contact with stainless
steel. Someone suggested deck screws because they're painted, so
perhaps there wouldn't be aluminum/other metal contact. I read
online about a solution that you would paint the aluminum with before
screwing into it.

For the wall the best thing so far seems to be DensArmor Plus, a
kind of drywall with fiberglass facing rather than paper.

Laura

[JIMMIE]

On Nov 29, 8:56 am, p...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote:

IVe used aluminum channel for framing in my camper like you mention, I
used them with paneling ,not drywall, and it has held up well. I have
also fastned things to the wall by putting rivets through the paneling
in to the aluminum and drilling and taping the rivets. use drywall
screw for metal studs and you should be fine.

Jimmie

[JIMMIE]

I use SS clamps wit aluminum tubing out doors and have had no problem.
Some of this has been exposed to the wx for 10 years or more.

Jimmie

[DerbyDad03]

On Dec 1, 1:11 pm, p...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote:

I know it's none of our business, but since you asked for our help, I
feel we have the right to ask (again)...

Why are you not willing to use wood as your studs?

In addition...a new question that I don't think has been asked before:

How are you planning on supporting the aluminum channel, or whatever
stud material you choose?

Will it be attached to the floor and ceiling joists or attached to the
block itself? You seem to be concerned about the types of screws to
use for the drywall, but what about the anchoring screws for your
framing?

re: "Could I screw into aluminum with deck screws? I would make pilot
holes."

1 - How will you find the pilot holes after you stand the drywall up
against the channel?
2 - I've never tried deck screws in 1/8" aluminum, with or without
pilot holes. Obviously the pilot holes would have to be small enough
so that the screws bit into the channel. I'm not sure how well that
would work...certainly worth a few test runs. You'd have to ensure
that you used screws that had threads high enough up the shaft so that
the threads were still biting into the aluminum when tight.

[Jim Yanik]

pb...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote in
news:2011120118114...@grex.org:

mounting aluminum directly on a concrete block wall may not be such a good
idea;chemicals in the concrete may react with the aluminum,causing
corrosion far greater than any from SS deck screws.


http://www.theconcreteproducer.com/industry-
news.asp?sectionID=1423&articleID=250608

Aluminum reacts with the alkalis (OH) found in portland cement concrete.
When these two chemicals are combined,the reaction produces hydrogen gas.

I wonder why he is avoiding wood? afraid of mold/mildew problems? termites?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[Graven Water]

Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:

> mounting aluminum directly on a concrete block wall may not be such a good
> idea;chemicals in the concrete may react with the aluminum,causing
> corrosion far greater than any from SS deck screws.

I think this applies more to aluminum that's embedded into concrete,
not channels screwed onto it. Only the legs of the channels would
be in contact with concrete block. I'm going to paint the
concrete block wall with a sealer, so the aluminum wouldn't be in
direct contact with concrete. It's below ground level, so liable
to dampness.

Or maybe I could use galvanized steel channels? I'm not sure if those
are available in the right size.

To attach drywall to the channels, I need to use screws with a flat
head, like deck screws or drywall screws. The metal screws I saw
didn't have flat heads.

Laura

[DerbyDad03]

Why, oh why won't you respond to the numerous inquires as to why you
don't want to use wood?

At least 3 different peple have asked, you've responded to other parts
of their posts (including mine) but you never address the "Why not
wood?" question.

Why is that?

[tra...@optonline.net]

> Why is that?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The other thing to consider is how many basements with
cement block walls are finished everyday with drywall without having
to come up with novel mounting methods.
I'd do some googling on the subject and I think the results
will be that wood is typically used without problems.

An alternate way of looking at it is if it's so wet that wood
can't be used, then I think he's got bigger problems than
the fastening method.

[denni...@gmail.com]

On Dec 1, 4:12 pm, p...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote:

> I think this applies more to aluminum that's embedded into concrete,
> not channels screwed onto it.  Only the legs of the channels would
> be in contact with concrete block.  I'm going to paint the
> concrete block wall with a sealer, so the aluminum wouldn't be in
> direct contact with concrete.  It's below ground level, so liable
> to dampness.

Two dissimilar metals + moisture = galvanic corrosion.

> Or maybe I could use galvanized steel channels?  I'm not sure if those
> are available in the right size.

Use steel studs. They're far better suited than aluminum.

Or use pressure-treated lumber. It's made for this kind of thing.

> To attach drywall to the channels, I need to use screws with a flat
> head, like deck screws or drywall screws.  The metal screws I saw
> didn't have flat heads.

If anything 1/8" aluminum is TOO THICK if you want to drive drywall
screws into it.

Even with pilot holes, the screws will either strip out or jam and
snap off.

[denni...@gmail.com]

On Dec 1, 4:25 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:

> Why, oh why won't you respond to the numerous inquires as to why you
> don't want to use wood?

> Why is that?

Because, our friend "Laura" here has it in her head that what she is
trying to do has never been done before, and that the only way to do
it is the most unconventional, expensive, complicated, asinine, and
cockamaime way known to man.

She will make eleventy-dozen excuses why normal, accepted methods and
materials won't work because hers is a "special" situation.

For certain, it's a wet basement. Oh, but she can't fix the water
intrusion problem properly for eleventy-dozen reasons, but she's got
magic paint that's just as good. Oh and she absolutely HAS to have a
finished basement...

Normal corner-cutters would simply fir out the wall with pressure-
treated lumber. Oh, but not our friend Laura. She's got some "thing"
about the chemicals they use in pressure-treated lumber. It's all for
the children. Doesn't matter that the mold and mildew that's growing
behind the drywall is going to kill her kids long before the trace
amounts of arsenic will. There's arsenic in her bottled water and
arsenic in the kids juice drinks, but that's okay. The boards buried
behind the drywall are DEADLY!

We can't use steel studs because of the moisture. Steel rusts, right?

Hmm, what can our friend Laura use... Wait, aluminum isn't steel, and
if it's not steel it doesn't rust right? Aluminum is the answer!

WRONG: Alumium studs + steel screws + moisture = battery

There won't be anything left under the drywall in 6 months, except
mold and mildew.

[Jim Yanik]

pb...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote in

news:2011120121121...@grex.org:

for a 1/8" thick channel,you'd HAVE to drill first,so you can also
countersink at the same time.

drilling for screwing on the drywall is also going to be a pain.
regular drywall screws aren't going to work.

maybe you should use ordinary steel framing studs.
they're galvanized,metal screws work well with them,and they're readily
available. there are screws specifically for drywalling to metal studs,no
predrilling.

why the opposition to wood? (pressure-treated,of course)
you could use construction adhesive to mount them to the concrete.

[Jim Yanik]

pb...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote in

news:2011120121121...@grex.org:

one other consideration;there's a product called "sound channel" or
"resilient channel" for mounting drywall to reduce sound transmission to
other areas,that might be what suits you best.

[dpb]

On 11/29/2011 7:56 AM, Graven Water wrote:
> Can you screw into aluminum that is 1/8" thick? I know you can screw into
> sheet metal, but I wonder if 1/8" thick aluminum would just strip screws.
>
> I found some aluminum channel online that is 1.5" deep and 1.5" wide, with
> 1/8" thick metal, online and I'm wondering if this would work as channel
> to attach drywall to.

...

Of course they make screws that will work...

<http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0148432>

These are steel; I'm sure w/ searching one could even find Al (assuming
willing to pay the price, of course).

_BUT_, having read your follow-up responses, as others have said you're
attacking the wrong problem. First fix the water problem, _then_ use
conventional framing techniques whether wood or metal won't really matter.

Trying this as a way to "engineer" around the problem is bound to fail
and be nothing but grief and expense down the road not to mention
possible health issues owing to mold/mildew that _will_ be a problem w/o
the moisture problem being resolved.

--

--

[Graven Water]

I decided to use PVC boards instead of metal channel. I realized since the
wall is uneven, the flexibility of the PVC boards will likely be useful.
I'm going to ripcut some 1x6 PVC, it'll save some money too.

Thanks for your help,
Laura

[DerbyDad03]

Once again, a total ignoring of the "Why not wood?" questions.

It's beginning to appear that you are afraid to answer that question
because your reasoning is probably not sound. Oh well...

Let's see, you're going to rip 1 x 6 PVC boards to use as studs
against an uneven wall because of their "flexibility". That sounds
like you are going to be putting them right against the
wall...otherwise, why would the flexibility matter?

So, are you planning to scribe them to match the uneveness of the wall
or are you going to allow the exposed face of the PVC to be as uneven
as the wall which in turn will make the face of your drywall just as
uneven?

I have to wonder if you have any clue about what you are doing. Since
you won't answer our "Why not wood?" questions I'm becoming more and
more convinced that you don't.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Dec 6, 12:40 pm, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> On Dec 6, 8:56 am, p...@grex.org (Graven Water) wrote:
>
> > I decided to use PVC boards instead of metal channel.  I realized since the
> > wall is uneven, the flexibility of the PVC boards will likely be useful.
> > I'm going to ripcut some 1x6 PVC, it'll save some money too.
>
> > Thanks for your help,
> > Laura
>
> Once again, a total ignoring of the "Why not wood?" questions.
>
> It's beginning to appear that you are afraid to answer that question
> because your reasoning is probably not sound. Oh well...
>
> Let's see, you're going to rip 1 x 6 PVC boards to use as studs
> against an uneven wall because of their "flexibility".  That sounds
> like you are going to be putting them right against the
> wall...otherwise, why would the flexibility matter?
>
> So, are you planning to scribe them to match the uneveness of the wall
> or are you going to allow the exposed face of the PVC to be as uneven
> as the wall which in turn will make the face of your drywall just as
> uneven?
>

That's what I was wondering too. Maybe we should all take one more
step
back. I thought when finishing a basement the usual procedure was to
construct a wall using wood studs that for the most part do not touch
the
basement wall at all. It's framed like any other wall, with a top and
bottom
plate, then studs nailed to those and the whole thing could be 1" or 1
foot away
from the basement wall in question.

[DerbyDad03]

On Dec 6, 3:47 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

I hate to play the troll card, but the OP's steadfast refusal to
address the question of "Why not wood?" is making me think that
(s)he's just playing us.

If so, (s)he's suckered a few of us in. Kudos.