How to convert oil boiler to electric (house water heating system)
neilsanner
My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.
Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this before:
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!
Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.
This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.
Any ideas?
NeilSanner
RBM
domestic coil would go, an element could be fitted into it. It would have to
be pretty high KW to equal the oil burner BTU output, and of course
controlled by a contactor attached to the aquastat, but it could work. You
could also do it with a heat exchanger as you describe, but it's a bit more
complicated.
"neilsanner" <neils...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10fce334-4f1a-4f63...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
RBM
output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I don't
know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though
"neilsanner" <neils...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10fce334-4f1a-4f63...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Dr. Hardcrab
"neilsanner" <neils...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10fce334-4f1a-4f63...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Yeah. Don't do it.
There is no way you will get the recovery rate of oil-fired with an
electrical element.
A lot of people are getting ideas like that because the price of oil is so
high. If you want to go electric, you'd be better off putting electric
basboard heaters in all of your rooms (providing you have enough amperage in
your panel, which you probably do not). That would be cheaper than trying to
heat the water in the boiler fast enough to make a hot water baseboard
system keep up with the demand.
If you want to save a little on your oil bill, try a more efficient boiler
OR have a plumber install an electric water heater and tie the lines into
the boiler's domestic lines (isolated with gate or ball valves) . Then in
the summertime (or non-heating season) you can get your domestic hot water
from the electric unit and turn your oil-fired boiler off completely.
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<neils...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
>and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
>the baseboards.
>
>Any ideas?
>NeilSanner
Call a Pro and pay to have it done.
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hal...@aol.com
much electric is generated by burning oil or natural gas.
add insulation and perhaps a more efficent burner.
Steve B.
<neils...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>This system would work like that:
> -The water heater would keep the water hot
> -The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
> -The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
>the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
>circulator.
Neil:
A standard water heater doesn't have the capacity. They can
typically heat about 30gals per hour. Your system probably has more
water than that in the pipes so within a minute or so of the
circulator pump coming on all the hot water is used up.
A tankless water heater can put out about 3gals a minute but is
going to use around 100 amps to do it. Still probably not enough to
keep up with demand and it is going to cost you more in electric than
it would in oil.
Steve
Joseph Meehan
few guesses. Some will be wrong and will not apply. It might be helpful if
you can provide more information on what you would like to accomplish.
There are many variables, but it is unlikely you will be able to operate
on electric as cheaply as oil, even with the increases in oil prices. Keep
in mind that electric is likely to also go up as a result of the increase in
oil cost. Contacting your local electric and oil providers may be helpful
in obtaining cost information. Cost can vary from year to year.
I would chose to not convert your existing system, but simply add an
electric system. That will offer you more flexible options. You likely
will be able to target heat better so you can reduce electric usage by
allowing the bedrooms to go cooler during the day and heating only those
areas that you need when you need them. That is not impossible with a hot
water system, but more difficult. It also means you can have electric this
month and then switch back to oil next month if the cost changes. You also
will have a backup if the oil truck can't make it.
"neilsanner" <neils...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10fce334-4f1a-4f63...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
> and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
> the baseboards.
>
...
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia 's Muire duit
Edwin Pawlowski
"neilsanner" <neils...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10fce334-4f1a-4f63...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
> and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
> the baseboards.
>
> Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
> this before:
> -Make a hole in the boiler
> -Insert an electric element
> -Connect the element to an aquastat
> -The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!
Since you don't know the difference between a boiler and a furnace, I doubt
you have the skill to do a major conversion like that. No, you don't drill
any hoes in boilers.
Hint: Boilers heat water; furnaces heat air
Dr. Hardcrab
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:jYbnj.2508$Ej5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Ed,
You'll never educate non-HVAC people of that. They are always going to call
a boiler a furnace. Actually, the dictionary does not specify whether a
furnace heats the air or water:
fur·nace [ fúrn?ss ] (plural fur·nac·es)
noun
Definition:
1. enclosure producing great heat: a device in which heat is
produced by burning fuel either to warm a building or to undertake an
industrial process such as smelting metal.
Another pet peeve: Hot Water Heater.
It's a water heater. Why would you heat hot water?
tra...@optonline.net
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
>
> news:jYbnj.2508$Ej5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The term "boiler", while most commonly use, had some problems too.
In a steam system, the water does boil. But it a hot water system,
like the OP clearly has, the water only gets heated, not boiled.
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think some boilers can be used for HW heat
Boden
of indoor heat so 150 amps may be a better limit. Do it and watch the
pole transformer smoke.
It's getting close to the point where electric heat will make sense.
Here, at 15 cents per kw-hr its only 58% more than #2 oil. And, I get
almost 100 sq ft back into my shop if I take out the oil tank.
Boden
hal...@aol.com
> RBM wrote:
> > Just loosely calculating what I'd need for the equivalent electric BTU
> > output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I don't
> > know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
yeah BUT much electricity is generated by oil and natural gas, so
electricity will continue to go up in price. you will find they are
kinda lockstepped together.
better move is likely insulation
RBM
"Boden" <bo...@tidewater.net> wrote in message
news:fnlm0...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Paul M. Eldridge
>Your 156500 BTU/hr furnace is probably only delivering only 80% in terms
>of indoor heat so 150 amps may be a better limit. Do it and watch the
>pole transformer smoke.
>
>It's getting close to the point where electric heat will make sense.
>Here, at 15 cents per kw-hr its only 58% more than #2 oil. And, I get
>almost 100 sq ft back into my shop if I take out the oil tank.
>
>Boden
A 15 kW ( 51,000 BTU) electric boiler would draw roughly 65 amps, a
comfortable number for most 200 amp services and even many 150s. In
terms of heating capacity, 15 kW x 24 hrs/day = 360 kWh/day -- the
same amount of heat as 41 litres or 10.9 U.S. gallons of fuel oil at
82% AFUE.
For a conventional size home that's reasonably well insulated and air
sealed, 180 kWh/day when combined with other internal loads (i.e.,
lighting and appliances) should be more than adequate. If someone
requires more than twice this amount, they likely have bigger problems
to address. Even at a constant -20C/-4F, my 2,500 sq. ft. home tops
out at 150 kWh/day and, again, part of this would be met by those
other internal loads.
In my case, I pay $0.1067 per kWh for electricity, which works out to
be the equivalent of heating oil at about $0.94 a litre/$3.50 per U.S.
gallon (82% AFUE) -- that's pretty much a wash at today's prices.
However, for an older boiler with an AFUE of 70%, the equivalent cost
is a little less than $0.80 a litre or $3.00 per U.S. gallon. If I
had to replace my oil-fired boiler and I had sufficient panel
capacity, I'd go electric in a heart beat.
Cheers,
Paul
Dr. Hardcrab
"RBM" <r...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:479e65f4$0$25048$607e...@cv.net...
> Help me out here. What does that make the price of oil in your area?
$3.28 a gallon here in Southern Maryland
Boden
Dr. Hardcrab
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:54b9a0df-aed5-48a4...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Right. But look up the word boiler in the dictionary. It contradicts
everything.
I don't care. A hot air unit is a furnace and a unit that heat water for
heat is a boiler.
and a donut without a hole, is a danish
nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh..........
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
jim
Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.
hal...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
just for the record.............
with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes. if you must haul by
truck add fuel costs for that.
now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles
you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,
than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too
jim
Sigh
It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.
if you must haul by
> truck add fuel costs for that.
At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.
>
> now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
> gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
> miles.
3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.
>
> you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,
Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.
> than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too
Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.
tra...@optonline.net
I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000. I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
season for a lot less than that.
And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution. Note, I'm
not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.
>
> > you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,
>
> Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
> and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
> coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
> well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
> easily pays for any overhead.
>
> > than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too
>
> Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
> up your thermostat.
>
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>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
hal...@aol.com
yeah its kinda funny, people crow about how much they save heating
with firewood, and dont mind volunteering the hours worked etc.
but somehow EVERYONE I have ever asked always come back as a fiancial
loser or at best break even.
It would probably be more efficent to work the part time job and
devote 100% of the earnings to superinsulating the home.
insulation pays back forever, without additional work:)
such upgrades as triple pane windows, 95%+ furnace, and closed cell
foam insulation. Heck even a timer thermostat.
jim
I don't see it that way - the cost of labor. I have a growing
greenhouse and a vegetable garden which requires considerable labor to
maintain. Should I not do this?
I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
> season for a lot less than that.
>
> And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.
On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.
Note, I'm
> not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
> it. Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
> for everyone.
It is for me.
jim
> insulation pays back forever, without additional work:)
Done
>
> such upgrades as triple pane windows
Done
95%+ furnace, and closed cell
> foam insulation.
Heck even a timer thermostat.
So thats what that square box on the wall is.
tra...@optonline.net
No, If you enjoy it and get other benefits from it, of course you
should keep doing it. I stated that in my post. My point is some
people don't enjoy cutting, splitting, and hauling wood. And in that
case, I agree with hallerb, that if they looked at the labor spent
doing it, it can be more effective to just work some extra hours
somewhere at a paying job.
>
> I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
>
> > season for a lot less than that.
>
> > And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.
>
> On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
> ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.
CO2 isn't the only issue or even the main one. The typical woodstove
emits a lot more HC, CO, other noxious gases and particulates than a
natural gas or oil fired furnace. And a lot of it depends on what
kind of wood is burned, how well the fire is managed, which are not
issues with gas or oil. There are towns with people living in close
proximity that have had so much pollution from woodburning stoves that
they have put restrictions on new ones.
It can be swell it you enjoy doing it and if only a small percentage
of people do it. But if any significant percentage of homes started
doing it as their main source of heat, air quality would definitely
suffer.
bbech...@gmail.com
I love the smell of woodsmoke in the morning. I wish more people
burned wood. (I don't.)
hal...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
my neighbor used to burn wood constantly, it caused my wife great
asthma issues, and frankly gagged me it was so dense sometimes.......
he has a outdoor chimnea, and burns trash wood like pine, wonder if
that makes it worse?