Killing fire ant colony under house - concrete slab so no crawl space
Alex
I've posted a thread or two about this over the last few months, but I
figured I'd start a new thread since my question is alittle different.
Basically our problem is over 3 months ago we found our house was
being invaded by fire ants coming up through the sand trap under one
of our bathtubs. Our bug guy, who has already rid the yard of ants
and about any other type of insect, used Termidor which seemed to kill
them there, but now they're entering through any other opening in the
house they can find, like around the toilet, under the second bathroom
sink, and even through the pipes feeding our washer in the laundry
room. Mind you these locations are all 10-20 feet apart.
He's sprayed the bathroom and laundry room pipes inside the wall with
Termidor, and I've sprayed around the toilet with Ortho Home Defense,
but given there's obviously a colony of ants under the house and we
have a concrete slab what recourse do we have short of drilling holes
in the concrete, which even that is a crap shoot since we have no idea
where the colony is.
The bug guy said Termidor should in time work, hopefully within 3
weeks to 3 months, which it's been alittle over a month since he
sprayed the first time, but I'm afraid that might not be enough.
There are literally zero ants in the yard, so they are sustaining
themselves on whatever's under the house, which it's only 7 months old
so there can't be much.
So are we just destined to have ants from now on? Am I not giving
Termidor enough time to work? I've not read one case where it didn't
work, but with a baby and toddler I really can't afford to wait too
long. The bug guy has done a great job trying to fight back, but he
said he's even dumbfounded as to why they're being so aggressive since
it seems that we're doing a great job cutting off their food source.
Is our case just that unique?
Anyway, thanks for any advice anyone has.
LSMFT
You may have to dig a moat around your slab and fill it with toxic
chemicals.
--
LSMFT
Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.
John Grabowski
*Many years ago my sister suddenly had an invasion of ants in her slab built
townhome which was several years old at the time. They were coming out in
the bathrooms and kitchen from where the pipes penetrated the walls. She
tried hardware store ant traps to no avail. She called an exterminator who
took specimens to an entomologist who identified the specific species of
ant. The exterminator came back with traps similar to the hardware store
type, but were for that species and within days the ants were gone and have
not been back since.
I am no expert, but I thought the correct treatment is to have the ants take
the poison bait back to the nest thereby killing all of the occupants.
ransley
Granular bait by Bayer and Spectracide has worked on my Carpenter
ants. They take it back to the nest. sprays dont last or do anything
unless you hit the nest inside. I had a crooked spray man, Im much
richer now learning he was a crook as I know most are from my real
experiance. Ive found Mr Spray Bug is usualy a bug himself, bugging
for $
Bob-tx
"A. Baum" <50ki...@net.not> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.12...@50kilotons.net.not...
> Buy a couple pet anteaters http://goo.gl/UqjtD
He said these are FIRE ants. Everyone knows anteaters don't
eat FIRE ants. Nothing does.
Bob-tx
gpsman
I'll tell you what I think I know, from reading, c. 1999, my last year
as a PCO with no hands-on fire ant experience.
Termidor is not labeled for fire ants, or indoor residential
application. You need a new PCO, and your money back.
And I'd return that Ortho stuff. We called Raid and that kind of crap
"liquid foot". Sure, it'll kill most things, if you spray it directly
on them, but it has no more persistence than stepping on them (no
matter what the label says).
Ants in general can be tricky to treat, and you don't want to be half-
stepping. Stress a colony and it may split. You might not see ants
for months, then they come roaring back.
You should contact your local Dept. of Ag. county extension agent.
They should be familiar with the best pest control companies.
It's a short list of materials that are effective for fire ants,
possibly made shorter by your state EPA. Dursban would probably be my
choice, if your new PCO is licensed to use it and your state allows
it. It stinks to high heaven, and keeps stinking for a good while.
Still, exclusion is an essential defense. You need to close their
accesses to the home interior and move the fight outside.
-----
- gpsman
frits@scottsmiraclegro
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-under-house-concrete-slab-so-no-cr-609810-.htm
frits@scottsmiraclegro wrote:
Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which is
labeled for
fire ants. Can apply this around perimeters where ants are coming into
the house.
As they walk across is they pick up the active ingredient. Safe for
reentry with
adults and children after the product has completely dried.
-------------------------------------
frits@scottsmiraclegro
jamesgangnc
> throw some water on them to put out the fire.
I've found the most effective thing for invading ants is hmemade bait
using borax and sugar or peanut butter. There are a recipies on the
internet. If they don't take the sugar based one then switch to the
proten one (peanut butter). Takes a few days. The borax mix kills
slowly so they have time to take the food back to the colony.
Alex
Hi gpsman,
After our bug guy used it I did some research and saw it's only
suggested to use outside and they didn't list Fire Ants even though
they didn't specifically say it didn't work on them. I've read on a
few other pest control sites that Termidor has been used in the manor
in which our bug guy used it with great success, and honestly after he
put it down it did pretty much stop it for a few weeks -- but now
they're starting to trickle back in.
I'm thinking and really hoping that the ants are hanging around due to
a toilet in one of our bathrooms which we just discovered was
leaking. The tile grout under the toilet has started turning colors,
so we have a plumber hopefully coming out tomorrow to check it out and
reseal the toilet. While it's pulled I hope to use cement caulk to
seal around the pipe so with this plus a newly sealed toilet hopefully
that'll cut of one place where the ants might be getting water.
But not unlike getting a second opinion on anything else, I'm thinking
of calling another pest control company just to see what they'd
suggest. The one I'm using is highly recommended in our area, but as
I said I think our case is rather unprecedented even from what I'm
reading online. I hate to think we'd need to treat this like a
termite extermination with drilling holes in the concrete, but who
knows.
gpsman
(frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:
> responding tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-unde...frits@scottsmiraclegro wrote:
>
> Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which is
> labeled for
> fire ants.
Seems not.
<q>What it Controls
Insects: Kills Roaches, Ants, Fleas, Ticks, Spiders, Earwigs,
Silverfish and other listed insects. Up to 12 month control indoors
for listed insects: Crickets, Spiders (excluding Black Widow and Brown
Recluse), Carpet Beetles, Earwigs, Firebrats, Moths and Silverfish.</
q>
http://www.orthohomedefense.com/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?proId=prod70044&itemId=cat10040001&tabs=usage
http://tinyurl.com/ohdmiap
-----
- gpsman
Bill who putters
frits.rizor_at...@foo.com (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:
> responding to
> http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-under-house-c
> oncrete-slab-so-no-cr-609810-.htm
> frits@scottsmiraclegro wrote:
> Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which is
> labeled for
> fire ants. Can apply this around perimeters where ants are coming into
> the house.
> As they walk across is they pick up the active ingredient. Safe for
> reentry with
> adults and children after the product has completely dried.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> frits@scottsmiraclegro
Ive gotten great ant control with boric acid and oil of pennyroyal .
Can't use the pennyroyal in you living quarter but OK in a basement.
Ants dislike the smell we like it for 10 minutes then it is cloying. I
go the the drug store for very pure small particle size. Mix 1 teaspond
with a cup of sugar. Place it under a rock or in a glass cup or small
bowl container. Lasts years.
Never had fire ants but some folks sort of say give it a try and the
MSDS is not too bad.
http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1318.html
Here is a gogle search for boric acid and fire ants.
http://www.google.com/search?q=fire%20ant%20boric%20acid&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-
8
I'm only passing this info because I sat on a bench once and the
bastards let me know it was their nest area.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
"Always tell the truth and you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain.
dadiOH
> On Dec 16, 8:37 am, frits.rizor_at_scotts_dot_...@foo.com
> (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:
>> responding
>> tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-unde...frits@scottsmiraclegro
>> wrote:
>>
>> Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which
>> is
>> labeled for
>> fire ants.
>
> Seems not.
>
> <q>What it Controls
> Insects: Kills Roaches, Ants,
A fire ant is still an ant.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
hal...@aol.com
> gpsman wrote:
> > On Dec 16, 8:37 am, frits.rizor_at_scotts_dot_...@foo.com
> > (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:
> >> responding
> >> tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-unde...
>
> >> Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which
> >> is
> >> labeled for
> >> fire ants.
>
> > Seems not.
>
> > <q>What it Controls
> > Insects: Kills Roaches, Ants,
>
> A fire ant is still an ant.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
>
> - Show quoted text -
drill into slab and inject your favorite long acting poision
underneath the slab, then seal up any know entrances
gpsman
> > On Dec 16, 8:37 am, frits.rizor_at_scotts_dot_...@foo.com
> > (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:
> >> responding
> >> tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-unde...
>
> >> Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which
> >> is
> >> labeled for
> >> fire ants.
>
> > Seems not.
>
> > <q>What it Controls
> > Insects: Kills Roaches, Ants,
>
> A fire ant is still an ant.
To those who know nothing or less about ants.
http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/articles/tf0053.aspx
And I stand corrected, kind of.
While Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter is not specifically
labeled for fire ants, its active ingredient, Bifenthrin, is, but I
wouldn't recommend their 0.05% concentration.
-----
- gpsman
nor...@earthlink.net
Fire ant infestations of the magnitude you describe aren't normally
isolated problems. Your county extension service (or state) should have
information and the best practices for eliminating them. Off-the-shelf
remedies are unlikely to get rid of them. Amdro is a great bait that
worked on our Florida lawn infestations, but ours were never an indoor
problem. Caulking around all the pipe entries through the slab, and
sealing off the unpaved areas under tubs, would be a primary
concern....if your area is dry, the fire ants may be entering the house
looking for moisture. Have you tried calling your homeowners' insurance
company?
JIMMIE
It may take the Termidor several months to take care of the problem
but it also concerns me that you said SPRAYED. Normally holes are
drilled in the foundation and many gallons of the termicide pumped in.
My home is 1700 sq ft and think he used over 100 gal to treat it. If
he just went around spritzing with a spayer he didnt apply enough.
Jimmie
JIMMIE
Termidor is now labeled for ants. Think this happened the the last 2
or 3 years.
Jimmie
JIMMIE
>
> - Show quoted text -
What you see is probably scouts, they come in from the outside seeking
food and water and go back and "tell" the others. They also take back
the Termidier with them. If it was applied correctly they will go back
to there colony and poision it. This is the way Termidor is supposed
to work sO from time to time you will probably see ants especially
near sources that would attract them. I often see new ant beds in my
yard but none of them ever achive any significant size.
Jimmie
Alex
Hi Jimmie,
It was sprayed under our bathtubs into the sand traps plus inside the
walls where some of the pipes enter behind a sink and toilet. It
seems to be helping but it hasn't eliminating the problem. Question
though, you said they used 100 gallons of termidor, but how much did
that cost? That stuff is like $50 for 20 ounce bottle, and with 128 oz
per gallon that's like $30K (give or take). Also was yours for ants
or termites? I've heard of people having under the slab treated for
termites but not ants, though I'm afraid it might come to that if we
don't nip it soon.
Also something else we've noticed is we have a toilet seal leaking and
ants have been entering from that toilet (among other places), so I'm
wondering if that could be part of whats drawing them under the house
as well. We have a plumber coming out to fix it tomorrow, so
hopefully that helps too.
norminn,
You mentioned caulking around pipes and sealing the sand trap, but
what could we use for the sand trap? I'd be game for that, but I
don't know what we'd use. One tub is a garden tub where the side
comes off so we can get to that one easily, but the other tub is
harder to get to. Just curious if you suggested this from experience
since it's something I've thought of but I've not seen anyone mention
it yet.
Also I called our county extension office today, but everyone was away
from the office. I left a note for someone to call me back, so maybe
tomorrow I'll get some word from them.
J Burns
>
>
> "A. Baum" <50ki...@net.not> wrote in message
>>
>> Buy a couple pet anteaters http://goo.gl/UqjtD
>
> He said these are FIRE ants. Everyone knows anteaters don't
> eat FIRE ants. Nothing does.
> Bob-tx
My BIL's turkeys love to find a fire-ant mound and eat all the ants.
But would fire ants nest under a slab? I thought they needed mounds for
solar heat.
J Burns
> It was sprayed under our bathtubs into the sand traps plus inside the
> walls where some of the pipes enter behind a sink and toilet. It
> seems to be helping but it hasn't eliminating the problem. Question
> though, you said they used 100 gallons of termidor, but how much did
> that cost? That stuff is like $50 for 20 ounce bottle, and with 128 oz
> per gallon that's like $30K (give or take). Also was yours for ants
> or termites? I've heard of people having under the slab treated for
> termites but not ants, though I'm afraid it might come to that if we
> don't nip it soon.
>
> Also something else we've noticed is we have a toilet seal leaking and
> ants have been entering from that toilet (among other places), so I'm
> wondering if that could be part of whats drawing them under the house
> as well. We have a plumber coming out to fix it tomorrow, so
> hopefully that helps too.
If they _are_ fire ants, they may be helping you. They could be eating
a nest of termites in wood buried under the slab, and they come up for a
drink. When they finish eating the termites, you could look for their
mound near your house.
I keep a one-quart pump-up sprayer with about a teaspoon of termidor
concentrate in a quart of water. When I find a mound, I squirt about a
tablespoon of the dilute mixture on a spot in the middle of the mound.
If I kick the mound a week later, there will be no response.
JIMMIE
>
> - Show quoted text -
That price is for concentrate. It is mixed with water. All the
drilling, appllication, filling the holes cost me aound $1000. Took
care of ants termites and a lot of other insects including roaches and
crickets. Still works after 10 years. Works best if your neighbors
also have their homes treated with Termidor.If he came in with a
little sprayer and spritzed the stuff around he is ripping you off.
Doubt if he is even applying Termidor.
Jimmie
dadiOH
Are you 100% sure they are fire ants? Been stung? What state are you in?
gpsman
> On Dec 16, 6:07 am, gpsman <gps...@driversmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Termidor is not labeled for fire ants, or indoor residential
> > application.
>
> termite extermination with drilling holes in the concrete, but who
> knows.
I stopped drilling holes for termites ~1990. I found that using 4-6'
"stingers" I could effectively inject material around basement walls/
under slabs.
My problem with Termidor is that it is a "stealth" insecticide, so it
doesn't provide the repellent effect you get with nearly all other
materials. You drench the mounds in your yard and the ants are likely
to take off in any direction, including toward the house.
I would bet you could get acceptable results with the bifenthrin trade
named Talstar P (/Talstar One) diligently applied with a garden
sprayer (according to label directions).
If you anticipate future battles I'd recommend you get some. I buy
3/4 gallons off eBay, from whomever has the best price.
Checking, it looks like this guy is right; you'll be hard pressed to
find a better number than $47.95 and free shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Talstar-Pro-3-4-Gal-Insecticide-Ant-Roach-Flea-Control-/140385711134
-----
- gpsman
Alex
> drilling, appllication, filling the holes cost me aound $1000. Took
> care of ants termites and a lot of other insects including roaches and
> crickets. Still works after 10 years. Works best if your neighbors
> also have their homes treated with Termidor.If he came in with a
> little sprayer and spritzed the stuff around he is ripping you off.
> Doubt if he is even applying Termidor.
Yes he used the 20oz bottle of Termidor, I saw the bottle and read the
label. He targeted the ants under our garden tub coming up from the
sand trap, and as expected within a few days they were gone from
there, but I think they've moved to a second bathroom around a toilet
that we've found to have a leaky seal which we're getting fixed this
afternoon. Termidor can't be used around the toilet, but I hope by
replacing the wax ring and also caulking around the toilet drain
that'll keep them away from that area. And if this is their primary
source of water under the foundation and it's removed maybe that'll
drive them away.
Also if you got your house sprayed 10 years ago, termidor was just
introduced in 2000 so you were one of the firsts :) And if it cost
you $1000 them I bet it'd be MUCH more today. But if after fixing the
toilet and baiting the yard once more (it's been 3 months since it was
baited last) and the ants are still around, I'll see if we can go with
under the foundation treatment regardless of the cost.
dadiOH
-- Are you 100% sure they are fire ants? Been stung? What state are
you in?
Yes they are, and yes I have, and we're in Central Texas...
Before we found the primary source of the ants we had them literally
in every room of the house, even in the ceiling (attracted to moisture
in the AC vents). Me, my wife, and daughter got stung several times
during that fiasco, but since having the sand traps sprayed they're
just trickling in... no lines of ants, just one or two here or there.
When it's damp outside we get a break from them, but given a few days
of dryness we see worker ants coming back in. I've sprayed around the
bathroom parameters with Ortho Home Defense which keeps them isolated
to the bathroom. Like I said before hopefully fixing the leaky toilet
will remove their source of water and make them move elsewhere.
Alex
> I stopped drilling holes for termites ~1990. I found that using 4-6'
> "stingers" I could effectively inject material around basement walls/
> under slabs.
>
> My problem with Termidor is that it is a "stealth" insecticide, so it
> doesn't provide the repellent effect you get with nearly all other
> materials. You drench the mounds in your yard and the ants are likely
> to take off in any direction, including toward the house.
>
> I would bet you could get acceptable results with the bifenthrin trade
> named Talstar P (/Talstar One) diligently applied with a garden
> sprayer (according to label directions).
>
> If you anticipate future battles I'd recommend you get some. I buy
> 3/4 gallons off eBay, from whomever has the best price.
>
> Checking, it looks like this guy is right; you'll be hard pressed to
> find a better number than $47.95 and free shipping.http://cgi.ebay.com/Talstar-Pro-3-4-Gal-Insecticide-Ant-Roach-Flea-Co...
> -----
>
> - gpsman
Are stingers those pipes that can be inserted into the foundation and
chemicals poured into to disperse under the foundation? I've heard of
people doing that but I've not heard that term used. Also for is
it'll be tricky since all our pipes are under the foundation, so
whoever does it will need to be careful not to puncture a pipe or
we'll really have a mess.
But yeah I know that about Termidor being a stealth pesticide, which
is one reason our bug guy is using it. Problem though now is with the
trickle of ants coming into the house I don't know if enough are
making it back to the colony to do much good. Under the tub we had
hundreds coming in, so I think spraying there really hurt if not for
the most part destroyed the colony. I think/hope/assume what we're
seeing how are the left over ants possibly making a new colony under
the toilet with the leaky seal which will be fixed this afternoon. If
that's the case then hopefully flooding that area around the toilet
pipe with Ortho Home Defense (don't want to use a bait) then caulking
it, then resealing the toilet to avoid more leaks will kill those
there and remove their water source.
And yeah once the ants seem to be somewhat gone I'd like our bug guy
to spray whatever he has to do around the pipes to kill whatever
worker ants start coming in, whether it be dust or something
stronger. My fear though is that the pipes come up through the stud
footer on the concrete, so unless whatever is sprayed is able to soak
down into that, the ants can still come up under the stud. Not sure
yet.
But I'll post back after the plumber leaves with news of what we find
under the toilet.
Alex
office, and after telling them everything that's happened they said
they've never heard of fire ants being this aggressive in our area or
otherwise. The person I talked to is sending the details to an expert
in urban ants (or something like that) and they'll follow-up with me
with more info.
So again from this and everything I've read our case is rather
unique...
nor...@earthlink.net
there should be plenty of expert help available....in Florida, they
aren't often an indoor problem, but treatment methods are common
knowledge. Since yours seem to be seeking moisture, that is what I
would focus on...as with termites, KEEPING THEM OUT is most important,
although lots of folks seem to think they need to kill all in the
neighborhood. Caulk everything that can be a point of entry (plumbing
and electrical entries), cracks around doors and windows, all baseboards
(esp. in bath and kitchen).
Sprinkle bait in your "sand traps" and any entry points presently in
use. Amdro is an excellent BAIT and effectively changed our yard from
unuseable to comfortable - got attacked rather badly a couple of times
working on irrigation sys. outside. Once knelt on a nest and before I
realized they were on me, they had swarmed - over 100 bites on one leg.
That seems to be their trick - I normally feel any bug that touches,
but there were hundreds on my leg before I felt them and they seem to
bite in unison. A lot of advice from people who have never experienced
them, and general advice about ants does not really apply. There have
been a couple of "mass attacks" on nursing home patients in Florida -
not something to mess with or trust to amateurs. We used Amdro where we
found the sites fire ants favored - along walks, pavers and patios.
Label advises broadcasting, but for us it was not needed. We used it
pretty sparingly and took care not to hit the nest . sprinkled around
the opening, it didn't take long for them to start taking the bait.
Pretty interesting to watch, as well.
I've never understood the reason for leaving slabs open underneath bath
tubs, but caulking a hunk of plastic over those openings would at least
discourage the ants.
JIMMIE
Something I found on Termidor that may explain your experience with
it:
Termidor is made to bond to soil and will only last extended periods
of time when placed into the ground for termite control. Also, when
you treat in a trench in the ground for termites, you are pouring in 4
gallons per 10 feet. Termidor will only last for 10 years when
applied in a trench for termites. When you use Termidor as a spot
treatment indoors on wood, it will only last for 6 weeks at the most,
because it is not made to bond and last on wood, it is meant for soil
treatments. Although you can use it indoors for spot treatments in
wall voids for termites only, you cannot use Termidor as a pest
control spray indoors.
Jimmie
Edward Reid
wrote:
>I did talk to our county extension
>office, and after telling them everything that's happened they said
>they've never heard of fire ants being this aggressive in our area or
>otherwise.
My experience agrees (though I'm in Florida, not Texas). Your theory
about water-seeking seems sound, except that it's highly unusual in my
experience for fire ants to be found inside isolated from a nest. I
would work hard to locate the nest or nests, which are probably out in
a sunny area -- these ants do not like shade. (In fact, where I used
to live, the ants gradually retreated as the trees grew and shaded
them out.)
If the weather has been dry, you may not see the classic mounds. The
ants only build the mounds when the soil is sufficiently damp. The
nests can be flat on the ground until then.
>The person I talked to is sending the details to an expert
>in urban ants (or something like that) and they'll follow-up with me
>with more info.
Very good idea. In particular verify the identification. In the
southern US, "fire ant" usually means Solenopsis invicta, the South
American invader, but some people use the term for any stinging ant.
Did the stings you received result in white welts, that look like
large pimples, after 24 hours, and take a couple of weeks to heal?
That would be strong evidence that they are indeed S. invicta.
However, the unusual behavior -- coming inside so aggressively --
merits making sure of the ID.
As for Termidor, I gather from reading that it's intended to soak into
wood and soil. Though approved for ants, this action is more
appropriate for termites, and the approval for ants is recent. The
active ingredient, fipronil, is sold in bait form, but Termidor is not
a bait. It may be that the ants are not taking enough of the fipronil
back to the colony to kill the queens and that the colony quickly
regenerates, and then follows paths which have been "cleaned" of
fipronil.
Yes, queens, plural. Unlike many ants, fire ant colonies have multiple
queens, making them more resilient.
Interesting tidbit found on Wikipedia: S. invicta was first identified
by E O Wilson, the famous ant expert -- when he was 13 years old.
Edward
Oren
<edw...@paleoNOTTHIS.org.NOTTHIS> wrote:
>>The person I talked to is sending the details to an expert
>>in urban ants (or something like that) and they'll follow-up with me
>>with more info.
>
>Very good idea. In particular verify the identification. In the
>southern US, "fire ant" usually means Solenopsis invicta, the South
>American invader, but some people use the term for any stinging ant.
>Did the stings you received result in white welts, that look like
>large pimples, after 24 hours, and take a couple of weeks to heal?
>That would be strong evidence that they are indeed S. invicta.
The larger "fire ant" (Florida), that leaves a white pustule welt, my
grandfather called 'em "piss ants". When asked why: "They bite the
piss out of you."
"Fire ants" can be of various sizes.
Chart: (Queen is on the right)
nor...@earthlink.net
I found two websites with extensive and helpful info about fire ants,
one for Florida, one for Texas, below. The Texas site also has an email
addy for assistance/questions - it would be the logical place to go for
a domestic infestation problem. The Texas site gives info about NATIVE
Texas fire ants (not a huge problem) and the imported ants, as well as
control advice. They also recommend Amdro (and some other controls) for
indoor problems.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh059
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~gilbert/research/fireants/faqans.html
Alex
Jimmie,
Can you send me the link where you read this on the Termidor site???
Also for others who have used Amdro, with it being dry out the ground
and foundation have separated so would pouring Amdro or some other
bait in this area in a decent quantity maybe draw them out from under
the house to 'feed' and maybe they'd carry it back to their nest? My
fear though is that it would attract more ants which would be counter
productive. Our bug guy has been treating outside with granular bait
sprinkled around the house, but I'm thinking it might take a generous
quantity to entice the ants under the house to come out and grab some.
I've sprayed Ortho Home Defense around the bathroom counters so though
they're crawling out they're dieing pretty fast, so I hoped they'd
eventually give-up and look elsewhere for food/water, but thus far no
dice. It's definitely not the invasion it was a few months ago, but I
want to get the ant count to zero, not one or two a day.
Thanks for the great info...
Alex
> But I'll post back after the plumber leaves with news of what we find
> under the toilet.
Plumber came out on Friday and pulled the toilet, but it was clean --
no leak. We flipped the toilet over and I didn't see any evidence
that there was a leak or even any ants which I wasn't expecting. So
that theory went out the window.
In talking to our bug guy about it and he said if the toilet seal was
made of bee's wax that could've been attracting them. I had the
plumber caulk the outside of the toilet though so if they were
attracted to the wax ring maybe that will cut off that food supply.
Though I have the baseboards in that bathroom covered in Ortho Home
Defense I haven't seen any in there since early last week and none
since the toilet was resealed and caulked.
I do however see about 2 or 3 a day in the other bathroom, though
Ortho Home Defense is killing them as soon as they get out. My only
fear is this this bathroom backs up to one of our kids rooms, and
though I haven't seen any in there yet I can imagine there's more
coming up that I'm not seeing. Our bug guy is coming out this week to
spray Termidor inside the wall behind the sinks so maybe that'll
help. The only thing he's done back there thus far is dusted, but I
don't think the dust got deep enough to do much good.
Alex
> Something I found on Termidor that may explain your experience with
> it:
>
> Termidor is made to bond to soil and will only last extended periods
> of time when placed into the ground for termite control. Also, when
> you treat in a trench in the ground for termites, you are pouring in 4
> gallons per 10 feet. Termidor will only last for 10 years when
> applied in a trench for termites. When you use Termidor as a spot
> treatment indoors on wood, it will only last for 6 weeks at the most,
> because it is not made to bond and last on wood, it is meant for soil
> treatments. Although you can use it indoors for spot treatments in
> wall voids for termites only, you cannot use Termidor as a pest
> control spray indoors.
>
> Jimmie
Jimmie,
nor...@earthlink.net
I posted some links a few messages back which gave some very useful
information....one bit that I had not read before was that fire ants eat
only liquids....Amdro's formula takes that into account, containing oil
of some sort (don't recall all the details, but it was an authoritative
source. You keep mentioning moisture...one thing that might attract
ants indoors, aside from water, is toothpaste, especially in kid's
bathroom. Learned that with other ants. If you see live ants indoors,
you can certainly follow their trail...that's all you need to do to lay
down Amdro bait. My experience is that they go after Amdro rather
quickly, and it rid us of fire ant problems in our lawn .. may not have
killed every ant, but we were able to do a lot of yard work without
being swarmed and attacked, it took relatively small amounts and it
lasted about a year. I don't think that covering the entire interior
with insecticide will be as effective as solving what ATTRACTS them and
then baiting near their trails. Cleaning up sweets and greasy stuff
around the house is important, too.
I'm sure that you will not rid the entire property and under-foundation
of ants...just treat for the ones that are entering the house and
correct the issues that attract or allow entrance.
nor...@earthlink.net
> On Dec 17, 5:06 pm, JIMMIE<JIMMIEDEE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>> Something I found on Termidor that may explain your experience with
>> it:
>>
>> Termidor is made to bond to soil and will only last extended periods
>> of time when placed into the ground for termite control. Also, when
>> you treat in a trench in the ground for termites, you are pouring in 4
>> gallons per 10 feet. Termidor will only last for 10 years when
>> applied in a trench for termites. When you use Termidor as a spot
>> treatment indoors on wood, it will only last for 6 weeks at the most,
>> because it is not made to bond and last on wood, it is meant for soil
>> treatments. Although you can use it indoors for spot treatments in
>> wall voids for termites only, you cannot use Termidor as a pest
>> control spray indoors.
>>
>> Jimmie
>
> Jimmie,
>
> Can you send me the link where you read this on the Termidor site???
> Also for others who have used Amdro, with it being dry out the ground
> and foundation have separated so would pouring Amdro or some other
> bait in this area in a decent quantity maybe draw them out from under
> the house to 'feed' and maybe they'd carry it back to their nest? My
They do carry Amdro back to the nest...that's the entire purpose of it.
It is bait that contains poison and hopefully is carried back to the
queen, too. Ya' can't control how many in the nest die, but you should
be able to kill of most of those that are foraging IN YOUR HOUSE.
There is also concern that you kill off beneficial insects by overdoing
the poison....lots of contractors will sell you everything you wish to
buy, not necessarily what you NEED.
nor...@earthlink.net
I'm thinking that any pest control contractor in either Florida or Texas
who can't get rid of fire ants on the first go 'round might not know
what the heck they are doing. Fire ants are so common both places that
is really well known. Another spot that I forgot to mention is fire
ants nesting in electrical boxes...saw it mentioned again in one of the
articles I posted. Reason not known, but it is fairly commonplace.
Another treatment/bait mentioned is peanut butter mixed with boric
acid...works nicely for roaches, too. We got $500 worth when we had our
Florida condo treated for roaches :o)
Alex
> I posted some links a few messages back which gave some very useful
> information....one bit that I had not read before was that fire ants eat
> only liquids....Amdro's formula takes that into account, containing oil
> of some sort (don't recall all the details, but it was an authoritative
> source. You keep mentioning moisture...one thing that might attract
> ants indoors, aside from water, is toothpaste, especially in kid's
> bathroom. Learned that with other ants. If you see live ants indoors,
> you can certainly follow their trail...that's all you need to do to lay
> down Amdro bait. My experience is that they go after Amdro rather
> quickly, and it rid us of fire ant problems in our lawn .. may not have
> killed every ant, but we were able to do a lot of yard work without
> being swarmed and attacked, it took relatively small amounts and it
> lasted about a year. I don't think that covering the entire interior
> with insecticide will be as effective as solving what ATTRACTS them and
> then baiting near their trails. Cleaning up sweets and greasy stuff
> around the house is important, too.
>
> I'm sure that you will not rid the entire property and under-foundation
> of ants...just treat for the ones that are entering the house and
> correct the issues that attract or allow entrance.
NorMinn,
Thanks for the info, and you're right on the toothpaste was something they did attack in our front bathroom. We have a medicine cabinet in the wall, and before we found the mass flow of fire ants from the sand trap they were attacking this area in masses which we did have toothpaste, mouthwash, etc in there. Also since we caulked up around our front toilet I haven't seen any in the front bathroom (knock on wood) because I'm wondering if they were attracted to the wax seal under the toilet. Go figure...
Our bug guy is coming out tomorrow to spray a different chemical in the walls where the pipes come through the foundation since the ants are just a trickle, so that should hopefully kill the few that come in that way on contact plus he'll heavily bait along the sides of the house near the foundation, so with this plus the Termidor in the sand traps hopefully that'll do the trick.
I'm definitely seeing a pattern though because it's been humid and moist outdoors the last few days (not rain, but we have a heavy dew in the morning) and I've not seen any ants in 48 hours. So hopefully they're coming out from under the house to find moisture so maybe just maybe the bait we put down tomorrow will help.
But unfortunately we've gone a week or two without seeing any ants then they come back, so I won't celebrate until we've gone months without seeing ants. Just sucks because given they've gotten in once I assume they could always get in again given the chemicals don't last forever.
Alex
> I'm thinking that any pest control contractor in either Florida or Texas
> who can't get rid of fire ants on the first go 'round might not know
> what the heck they are doing. Fire ants are so common both places that
> is really well known. Another spot that I forgot to mention is fire
> ants nesting in electrical boxes...saw it mentioned again in one of the
> articles I posted. Reason not known, but it is fairly commonplace.
> Another treatment/bait mentioned is peanut butter mixed with boric
> acid...works nicely for roaches, too. We got $500 worth when we had our
> Florida condo treated for roaches :o)
Fire ants are definitely very common, that is true, but from what I've seen and read the type of outbreak we have is rather atypical. Even the folks at our local county ag extension office haven't heard of such an indoor infestation of fire ants like we have before. Our bug guy treated the ants as if they were coming from the walls by baiting outside and spot spraying inside, and we've not seen one single ant in the yard since... so yes that is working. But in our situation they're under the house which takes more work. Until we found the massive line of ants from the sand trap there never were trails to bait per say. I would see a few here or a few there, but the few trails I saw were always at night or early in the morning when the bug guy wasn't around.
But Termidor in the sand traps has worked with the infestation, but given there's still paths for ants to come in through the pipes in the foundation (and their enzyme trails are now all over the place) we still have worker ants coming in all too often. So hopefully with more aggressive chemicals used in the walls where the pipes are that'll kill the few worker ants that do try to make it in and hopefully detour them all together eventually. I don't know how long it takes an ant colony to die out without water or food, but given they have zero ways to get inside hopefully they'll move elsewhere if the bait outside doesn't do the trick sooner.
Alex
The bug guy did suggest that when the weather gets to the 70's and 80' to put some potato chips on the ground around the house and see if the ants come out to forge. If so put some Amdro around the area and see if they pick that up to carry back to the nest. If we can definitively get some of that to the queen(s) that should hopefully knock out the colony.
But thus far we're seeing fewer and fewer ants each week, so hopefully the spray he put down yesterday will help keep them at bay for the time being anyway.