house explodes due to blocked septic vents
Steve
roof being blocked by snow. As you may have heard the southern
vermont/upstate NY area has had a very high amount of snow recently.
Authorities are warning people to shovel off the roof and make sure
the vents are clear.
It appears as though the vents we covered with snow which force the
methane through the drain traps. An electrical appliance apparently
set it off. The occupants were killed except one boy who was asleep
in a basement room with concrete walls.
w_tom
above the roof?
Eric Lee Green
> Steve wrote:
>> Recently a house in vermont exploded due to the septic vents on the
>> roof being blocked by snow. As you may have heard the southern
> Are there not local codes demanding so many feet of pipe
> above the roof?
And if you have 2 feet of snow on the roof, but the code calls for 18
inches of pipe, this will help... how?
--
Eric Lee Green GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
mailto:er...@badtux.org Web: http://www.badtux.org
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Terry King
> >> roof being blocked by snow
Uhh.. I didn't hear of this, and I live Up There... Is this
for real? Newspaper/web reference??
--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont
te...@fredking.us
TakeThisOut
"Inlow said faulty plumbing was possible, especially since Vermont has only one
plumbing inspector for the entire state,"
Gas buildup suspected in Winhall house explosion
By EESHA WILLIAMS
Reformer Staff
WINHALL -- The explosion that killed a woman and injured her teenage son before
dawn on Thursday may have been the result of water evaporating from the "trap
seal" below one of the home's sinks, said a national plumbing expert.
Investigators Friday said snow accumulation may have prevented a septic system
from venting properly, leading to the explosion that killed Michelle Culnane,
46, and left her 14-year-old son hospitalized with burns.
Detective Sgt. Timothy Oliver, an arson investigator with the Vermont State
Police, said he believes the source of the blast was gas, possibly methane or
propane. The force of the explosion indicates it was probably methane, he said.
The blast sent debris flying 300 feet and could be heard for miles around. "One
of the vent tubes was clogged with snow and or debris," Oliver said. "That
resulted in some gases pooling in the residence."
But according to one plumbing expert, Allen Inlow of the International
Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials in Ontario, Calif., "A methane
gas explosion is extremely rare, but when it happens it's almost always either
because of faulty plumbing, or water evaporating from a trap seal."
Inlow said faulty plumbing was possible, especially since Vermont has only one
plumbing inspector for the entire state, but he said water evaporation was more
likely the cause if the house had been left vacant for very long.
The Culnanes lived at the house for nine months out of the year. Their two
children attend Stratton Mountain School. It was not known whether the house
had recently been left vacant.
When a house is vacant for more than a few weeks, Inlow said, special fluids
that do not evaporate should be poured down all sinks to ensure that explosive
methane gas from the septic tank cannot enter the home.
Such fluids are available at plumbing supply stores, he said.
Inlow said if the roof vent was blocked, the gas would have escaped into the
ground around the septic tank, instead of entering the house -- if there was
water in the trap seals.
Oliver said Friday he had no new information on the cause of the fire, and was
waiting for a report from gas and plumbing experts.
Fires caused by methane gas are so rare that the National Fire Protection
Association in Quincy, Mass., has no statistics on them, said spokeswoman Julie
Reynolds.
The Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services has posted a fact sheet
titled "Sewer Gas" on its Web site at
www.dhfs.state.wi.us/eh/Air/fs/SewerGas.htm.
"Explosion and fire" are one of the risks of methane and hydrogen sulfide
gasses found in sewers, according to the site.
The site says ways to avoid allowing "sewer gas" to enter one's home include:
* Flushing floor and sink drains with water to prevent the traps in pipes to
the sewer from drying out;
*Occasionally checking the roof plumbing vent for blockage from debris such as
leaves or bird nests.
Methane is odorless, according to the site, but causes symptoms including
headache, nausea, dizziness, or drowsiness.
The Associated Press reported Friday that Culnane had complained about a foul
odor in the house Wednesday, and had made an appointment for someone to come
inspect the problem the day of the explosion.
"It was just a really bad smell," said Mary Ann Davis, a close friend of the
Culnane's.
Unlike smoke detectors, methane detectors are not widely available, said Mark
Werner of the Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services. But, he said,
most fire departments have "oxygen displacement sensors" that can detect
methane in a home.
"If you suspect that high concentrations of sewer gas have accumulated in an
enclosed space, you should evacuate the area and contact the fire department
for assistance. Avoid creating an ignition source such a spark from an
electrical appliance, match or cigarette lighter," the site said.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
TAKETHISOUT budysbackagain(@)THAT TOO a-oh-ell dot com
Terry King
Thanks, Guys. Funny: Google "Winhall explosion"
doesn't find this!!
I'll watch my vents! Actually I extended my main vent
by 4 feet to minimize smell in a skylight, a couple
of years ago...
We get as much as 3 feet of snow on the ground, here...
w_tom
warm shower water and household heat in the pipes. But then
if 2 foot of snow is usual, then does the code call for 2 foot
of vent pipe? I believe this region calls for 1 foot and we
get so little snow. What are the requirements for Vermont -
or do they exist?
Edwin Pawlowski
"w_tom" <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E222977...@hotmail.com...
> Six inches of snow above the pipe would be melted just by
> warm shower water and household heat in the pipes.
Are you sure? If the snow starts at 10 PM and the last shower was 9 PM and
it snows 3" per hour, how is the warm shower water going to melt the snow?
The explosion was at 5:30 AM.
An accident like that sure is rare and kind of unbelievable, but it can
happen and is under consideration as a cause.
Ed
e...@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Seth Goodman
<te...@fredking.us> wrote:
> Thanks, Guys. Funny: Google "Winhall explosion"
> doesn't find this!!
>
Use news.google.com, not the regular google, for recent news stories.
I got half a dozen hits from news.google.com on "Winhall explosion".
--
Seth Goodman
Steve
I've shoveled 3 feet off my roof twice since Christmas.
w_tom <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3E21FD8A...@hotmail.com>...
w_tom
guys. Why all the irrelevant argument. I asked if there is a
code requirement for height of the vent pipe? If you don't
know the answer, then why not just say "more snow will always
fall than code will require".
Original question and only one that is relevant: are there
code requirements for the height of vent pipes in Vermont?
Please don't go off on silly tangents this time.
Donald Kinney
> Six inches of snow above the pipe would be melted just by
> warm shower water and household heat in the pipes.
the inside.
Donald
berkshire bill
From the Vermont Government Webpage, Plumbing Rules Subpage;
Section P-904.1 - Extension above roofs: Extension of vent pipes through a
roof shall be terminated between 6 - 12 inches above the roof. On roofs
designed for human occupancy the vent extensions shall run a minimum of 7
feet above the roof and shall be designed to prevent frost closure.
"w_tom" <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E222977...@hotmail.com...
TakeThisOut
OK so this begs the question: Can this happen to you?
The house trap in my garage floor is vented to the outside between the cesspool
and the trap - this is seen as a 10" round grille with about 100 round holes in
it on the exterior wall. In some homes I've seen it as a pipe stubbed up right
near the point where the pipe enters the house, usually in the garden, with a
180 degree elbow on top.
Wouldn't any gas attempting to infiltrate the waste pipe exit via this vent?
Otherwise it would have to break through the water trapped in the house trap.
Speedy Jim
> OK so this begs the question: Can this happen to you?
>
> The house trap in my garage floor is vented to the outside between the cesspool
> and the trap - this is seen as a 10" round grille with about 100 round holes in
> it on the exterior wall. In some homes I've seen it as a pipe stubbed up right
> near the point where the pipe enters the house, usually in the garden, with a
> 180 degree elbow on top.
>
> Wouldn't any gas attempting to infiltrate the waste pipe exit via this vent?
> Otherwise it would have to break through the water trapped in the house trap.
House traps were (maybe still are) a peculiarity of East Coast codes.
In most places, house traps are now prohibited.
But, you're right; if the system *does* have a house trap, any gas
pressure
built up (due to blocked stack vent) would exit thru the fresh air
intake grill.
Jim
w_tom
vent extension? Is it the vent for sewer pipes or some other
ventilation pipe such as for a wood stove? Six to twelve
inches above a roof for a vent pipe seems awful short even in
Mid Atlantic states. I had been told at least 12 inches,
minimum, in areas where heavy snow is not a regular event.
Terry King
LEARNED something here, again!--
Terry King
> In most places, house traps are now prohibited.
NOW I recall seeing such 'house traps' many years ago, in
Connecticut. But I've never seen one in recent construction.
Here in Vermont, there is great variability in inspections
or even any requirements. In the cities there is typical
code enforcement, somewhat, and some building inspectors.
Out in the Far Boondocks where I am there are no requirements,
no permits, no inspections. For buildings, plumbing, electrical
or handguns. We are supposed to follow one rule: Don't Be Stupid.
Legally, I can walk into the Bank wearing a handgun. But I don't.
I'm glad there is only one trap on my entire septic system and it's in
the toilet, which doesn't go dry... My dry well DOES need a vent,
and I'll be adding one Real Soon Now, if I'm not Stupid. It will
be on a side wall, and won't get direct snow fall, though.
--