Unlocking electric meter box -- water problem

[TomR]

I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can help me
figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric meter box so I can
look inside and see if water is getting into that box.

I think that water is getting into the outside meter box and then running
down INSIDE the feed wire from there into my main service panel in the
basement (not along the OUTSIDE of the feed wire, and not through the
opening where the feed enters the building). I did try calling the electric
company to get them to open it, but I am not having any luck with that.
And, I do need to look inside the meter box to see what's going on, see if
water is leaking into it, etc.

Here are two photos of the electric meter box::
http://tinypic.com/r/dmtwqx/5

http://tinypic.com/r/11jlv8y/5



It is the locking mechanism on the lower right corner of the box that I
think I need to be able to open to take the cover off the box. I don't need
to, or want to, pull the meter etc. -- I just want to look inside to look
for signs of water getting into the meter box and, if so, where the water is
coming in from.



Thanks.

[Oren]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:16:12 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>And, I do need to look inside the meter box to see what's going on, see if
>water is leaking into it, etc.

The meter box ought to have knock-outs on the bottom.

Punch one up , without knocking is out complexly. Punch, small hammer
- just bend (twist) one side of the slug.

Water will drain, if that is the problem.

[HeyBub]

Or drill a hole (or two).

[Unquestionably Confused]

Until I looked at his pictures, I was about to suggest calling the power
company and asking them to come out and replace the meter - apparently
removed by vandals and left laying on the ground - so that they could
watch television tonight. An open meter can WILL get them moving faster.

Alas, it appears they've converted him to a smart (for them) meter.
Looks like the meter is blanked out so he has no way of reading/checking
his usage. "Oops, looks like you left some lights on this month, here's
your bill for 8,700kWh; yeah, we know you generally only use 4,800kWh.
Better take care now!"<g>

[Oren]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:29:06 -0500, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

Know what I mean Vern?! <G>

[micky]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:16:12 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can help me
>figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric meter box so I can
>look inside and see if water is getting into that box.
>
>I think that water is getting into the outside meter box and then running
>down INSIDE the feed wire from there into my main service panel in the
>basement (not along the OUTSIDE of the feed wire, and not through the
>opening where the feed enters the building). I did try calling the electric
>company to get them to open it, but I am not having any luck with that.
>And, I do need to look inside the meter box to see what's going on, see if
>water is leaking into it, etc.
>
>Here are two photos of the electric meter box::
>http://tinypic.com/r/dmtwqx/5
>
>http://tinypic.com/r/11jlv8y/5

i DOn't know what the second picture is, but I don't think it's a
lock.

You have a seal, AFAIK not a lock.

It's the thing in the middle, dangling down. You can cut it with
wire cutters, lift the lever, and pull off the whole front grey panel
with the big hole in it.

Whether the electric company will be mad at you for this is another
question, but I did it once (or twice?) and since I didn't steal any
electricity, the next time an electric guy was there, he just put on
another seal. They sell similar seals, but since they're not
identical, the power company will still know you've been fiddling with
their stuff.

(Once they had disconnected me for failure to pay my bill. I paid it
and they said to go home immediately, because in Baltimore they won't
reconnect you if you're not there. I went home and waited a couple
hours and wanted to make dinner or something, so I got impatient and I
broke the seal and reconnected the power. An hour or two later, the
guy showed up and I told him someone else had come and done it. (That
was true, I guess, if you count me as the someone) He didn't say a
word. I guess he was ticked. But he put a new seal on it. Later I
realized that he was the only guy either disconnecting or reconnecting
for my geographical area, so he knew no other BGE guy had come.)

I have no experience with extra holes in the box. Won't insects get
in and start living there? Does that matter?

[micky]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 18:21:32 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>You have a seal, AFAIK not a lock.

BTW, don't touch anything inside if you want to be able to post here
again.

[Oren]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 18:22:36 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>BTW, don't touch anything inside if you want to be able to post here
>again.

Exactly. Keep one hand your pocket.

[RBM]

That's a hydraulic lock. If you need to get in you'll have to get the
utility company.
Typically rain water gets in if you have "SE" type entrance cable with
Ductseal around the rain tight fitting at the top of the box. The
Ductseal dries out leaving a space for water to travel down the cable
into the box. It usually drips onto the wires which go into the house,
which causes it to flow through the sheath with the wires and into the
service panel. Unfortunately, making holes in the bottom of the box
won't solve this, you need to prevent entry. I would run a bead of
silicone around the fitting at the top of the box. Also check that the
weatherhead at the top of the service standpipe is not broken or
otherwise exposed to rain.

[DerbyDad03]

This won't answer your question about getting into the box, but I'll tell
you how I dealt with water that was getting my service cable and then into
my panel.

I found the lowest spot on my service cable after the meter. It was nothing
more than a small dip in the cable. I took a utility knife and cut a tiny
slit in the outside jacket at the bottom of the dip. Water dripped out
slowly for a while then eventually stopped.

i have not had any water in my panel for years.

[Red]

Mine is a one piece breaker & meter box, meter above the breakers.
Water came thru the meter and across the breakers & buss bars,
corroding it all. The water was coming in around the glass meter
because their rubber seal between the glass & metal case was gone.
Power company replaced the seal and I replaced the main breakers. I
see some crud/mold at the bottom of your meter and that could be your
problem rather than a entrance cable water leak.

[recycl...@gmail.com]

I got a smart meter and I can check my usage fine. Maybe he needs to ask for one of these:

https://www.itron.com/na/productsAndServices/Pages/OpenWay%20CENTRON.aspx

[TomR]

Thanks. When I couldn't get the box open, I did try that and I was
surprised to find that no water came out. I did just what you said --
opened the knockout just a little. After nothing came out, I pushed it back
closed so the electric company wouldn't complain.

I also cut the little wire clip at the bottom and I could pry the door/cover
open a little in one corner. I could see that there is no water in the
bottom, and that the way the door/cover is mounted it looks like any water
in the bottom would drip out anyway.

Of course, all of that left me a little confused about what's going on, but
I still want to get the box open to find out.

[TomR]

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 4:29 PM, HeyBub wrote:
>> Oren wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:16:12 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And, I do need to look inside the meter box to see what's going on,
>>>> see if water is leaking into it, etc.
>>>
>>> The meter box ought to have knock-outs on the bottom.
>>>
>>> Punch one up , without knocking is out complexly. Punch, small
>>> hammer - just bend (twist) one side of the slug.
>>>
>>> Water will drain, if that is the problem.
>>
>> Or drill a hole (or two).
>
> Until I looked at his pictures, I was about to suggest calling the
> power company and asking them to come out and replace the meter -
> apparently removed by vandals and left laying on the ground - so that
> they could watch television tonight. An open meter can WILL get them
> moving faster.
> Alas, it appears they've converted him to a smart (for them) meter.
> Looks like the meter is blanked out so he has no way of

> reading/checking his usage. . . . ,

Sorry, I forgot to post that I taped a cardboard cover over the meter face
before taking the photos. I didn't want to post my actual meter number etc.
on the Internet. But, it's a regular meter and I can see the digital
readings.

[TomR]

Yep, I thought of doing that too. But, since I did the knockout trick etc.,
I didn't end up needing to drill a hole.

[TomR]

micky wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:16:12 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>
>> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can
>> help me figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric
>> meter box so I can look inside and see if water is getting into that
>> box.

> i DOn't know what the second picture is, but I don't think it's a
> lock.

It turns out that it is some type of locking mechanism.

> You have a seal, AFAIK not a lock.
>
> It's the thing in the middle, dangling down. You can cut it with
> wire cutters, lift the lever, and pull off the whole front grey panel
> with the big hole in it.

Yes, I also have that seal in the middle that you noticed. I had already
cut that with wire cutters, lifted the latch, and tried to open the door.
It's the other mechanism that is keeping the door from opening.

> Whether the electric company will be mad at you for this is another
> question, but I did it once (or twice?) and since I didn't steal any
> electricity, the next time an electric guy was there, he just put on
> another seal.

I agree, and I don't care if the electric company complains that I cut the
wire. I did try calling them first when the water was dripping inside the
main panel and onto the main breaker, but they never showed up after I
waited, waited, and waited, called them back, and then waited some more, and
then finally gave up.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 22:31:27 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:



>
>I agree, and I don't care if the electric company complains that I cut the
>wire. I did try calling them first when the water was dripping inside the
>main panel and onto the main breaker, but they never showed up after I
>waited, waited, and waited, called them back, and then waited some more, and
>then finally gave up.
>

They don't care. Anything after the meter is your problem so they
expect you to call a licensed electrician.

[TomR]

RBM wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 4:16 PM, TomR wrote:
>> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can
>> help me figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric
>> meter box so I can look inside and see if water is getting into that
>> box. I think that water is getting into the outside meter box and then
>> running down INSIDE the feed wire from there into my main service

>> panel in the basement . . . ,

> That's a hydraulic lock. If you need to get in you'll have to get the
> utility company.

I guess I'll have to do that unless I can somehow figure out how the
utility company opens that type of locking mechanism.

> Typically rain water gets in if you have "SE" type entrance cable with
> Ductseal around the rain tight fitting at the top of the box. The
> Ductseal dries out leaving a space for water to travel down the cable
> into the box. It usually drips onto the wires which go into the house,
> which causes it to flow through the sheath with the wires and into the
> service panel.

I think that may be what is going on in my case. I don't know what an "SE"
type entrance cable is, but it looks like there is a fitting at the top of
the meter box where the cable goes in, and there is a nut that appears to
tighten a rubber grommet (sp?) that the cable goes through. Just for kicks,
I globbed a bunch of Ductseal on top of the whole setup at the top of the
meter box (during a rain storm) just in case that would help. The rain
stopped not too long after that, so I don't know if what I did helped in any
way.

> Unfortunately, making holes in the bottom of the box
> won't solve this, you need to prevent entry.

Since I did try making a hole in the bottom, I ended up figuring out that
didn't work or solve the problem.

> I would run a bead of
> silicone around the fitting at the top of the box.

I'll definitely do that along with any other sealing that I can think of
around the lid of the box etc.

> Also check that the
> weatherhead at the top of the service standpipe is not broken or
> otherwise exposed to rain.

I'll look again, but so far, from ground level, I don't see anything wrong
higher up.

[Paul Drahn]

just to clarify, are you the property owner or a tenant? In all places I
have lived, or had businesses, the meter belongs to the power company.
All else belongs to the property owner and is his responsibility. Water
getting into the meter box is not the power company's problem.

Paul

[TomR]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
> "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can
>> help me figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric
>> meter box so I can look inside and see if water is getting into that
>> box.
>>
>> I think that water is getting into the outside meter box and then
>> running down INSIDE the feed wire from there into my main service

>> panel in the basement . . . ,

> This won't answer your question about getting into the box, but I'll
> tell you how I dealt with water that was getting my service cable and
> then into my panel.
>
> I found the lowest spot on my service cable after the meter. It was
> nothing more than a small dip in the cable. I took a utility knife
> and cut a tiny slit in the outside jacket at the bottom of the dip.
> Water dripped out slowly for a while then eventually stopped.

I definitely wanted to do that since the idea makes sense to me.
Unfortunately, from the meter down into the service panel is all a downhill
slope of the feed wire. The is no "low spot" or drip loop. If there was, I
would have tried your trick to drain the water out of the line. Instead,
the only "low spot" is inside the main panel where it is dripping out of the
feed cable.

[TomR]

Some of that did surprise me. I got different stories each time I called
the electric company about this. One electric company rep person did say
that they are only responsible up to the meter, so if the problem is after
the meter, it's my problem and not theirs. That would make me think that if
water was getting into the meter box, it would be their problem, based on
what they said. But, I actually thought that they are only responsible up
to the drop -- which is why I always pay an electrician who is putting in
new service to do the drop, the meter box, the main panel, etc.

But, what surprises me the most is that if I have an electrical problem, and
they come out and see what it is, I thought I could either pay an
electrician to fix it or have the electric company fix it and charge me for
the repair. For example, if I have an electric stove that isn't working, I
thought they could fix it and bill me. In my area, gas and electric is
supplied by the same company, and that's how they handle the gas side of
things regarding repairs. So, I assumed that they would do the same with
the electric side of things -- but maybe I'm wrong about that.

[TomR]

Paul Drahn wrote:
> On 6/8/2013 7:42 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 22:31:27 -0400, "TomR"<To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree, and I don't care if the electric company complains that I
>>> cut the wire. I did try calling them first when the water was
>>> dripping inside the main panel and onto the main breaker, but they
>>> never showed up after I waited, waited, and waited, called them
>>> back, and then waited some more, and then finally gave up.

>> They don't care. Anything after the meter is your problem so they
>> expect you to call a licensed electrician.

> just to clarify, are you the property owner or a tenant?

I own the property.

[RBM]

These things do vary from location to location. In downstate NY, the
utility company owns the overhead wires from the pole to the building,
and the meter. The property owner owns the box that the meter plugs
into. The real pia is that they get to put a lock on your box, to
protect their meter.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 23:09:32 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>
>But, what surprises me the most is that if I have an electrical problem, and
>they come out and see what it is, I thought I could either pay an
>electrician to fix it or have the electric company fix it and charge me for
>the repair. For example, if I have an electric stove that isn't working, I
>thought they could fix it and bill me. In my area, gas and electric is
>supplied by the same company, and that's how they handle the gas side of
>things regarding repairs. So, I assumed that they would do the same with
>the electric side of things -- but maybe I'm wrong about that.
>
>

Depends on the area. Where I live (CT) and work (MA) the utilities do
nothing after the meter.

[micky]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 22:31:27 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 16:16:12 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can
>>> help me figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric
>>> meter box so I can look inside and see if water is getting into that
>>> box.
>
>> i DOn't know what the second picture is, but I don't think it's a
>> lock.
>
>It turns out that it is some type of locking mechanism.
>
>> You have a seal, AFAIK not a lock.
>>
>> It's the thing in the middle, dangling down. You can cut it with
>> wire cutters, lift the lever, and pull off the whole front grey panel
>> with the big hole in it.
>
>Yes, I also have that seal in the middle that you noticed. I had already
>cut that with wire cutters, lifted the latch, and tried to open the door.
>It's the other mechanism that is keeping the door from opening.

I guess they added that after people like you and me started opening
the box ourselves.

Last week I got a smart meter. My doorbell was covered with ivy and
he says he knocked. I think I heard him knock on t he next townhouse
after he had already installed mine. He said if I wanted they would
take out the smart meter and put in the old style.

What gets me is that when I didn't pay on time, they took a long time
to disconnect me, but now they can do so with the blip of an electron.
They may not wait as long. Of course they might reconnect more
quickly. I doubt they will charge less.

[micky]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 23:09:32 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>

>But, what surprises me the most is that if I have an electrical problem, and
>they come out and see what it is, I thought I could either pay an
>electrician to fix it or have the electric company fix it and charge me for
>the repair. For example, if I have an electric stove that isn't working, I
>thought they could fix it and bill me. In my area, gas and electric is
>supplied by the same company, and that's how they handle the gas side of
>things regarding repairs. So, I assumed that they would do the same with
>the electric side of things -- but maybe I'm wrong about that.
>

Where do you live. lhd = Lower Hydrangea. Didn't the Marx
brothers do a movie there?

[micky]

On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 22:45:20 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:

>
>I think that may be what is going on in my case. I don't know what an "SE"
>type entrance cable is, but it looks like there is a fitting at the top of
>the meter box where the cable goes in, and there is a nut that appears to
>tighten a rubber grommet (sp?) that the cable goes through. Just for kicks,
>I globbed a bunch of Ductseal on top of the whole setup at the top of the
>meter box (during a rain storm) just in case that would help. The rain
>stopped not too long after that, so I don't know if what I did helped in any
>way.

You found a way to stop the rain!

>
>> Unfortunately, making holes in the bottom of the box
>> won't solve this, you need to prevent entry.
>
>Since I did try making a hole in the bottom, I ended up figuring out that
>didn't work or solve the problem.
>
>> I would run a bead of
>> silicone around the fitting at the top of the box.
>
>I'll definitely do that along with any other sealing that I can think of
>around the lid of the box etc.
>
>> Also check that the
>> weatherhead at the top of the service standpipe is not broken or
>> otherwise exposed to rain.
>
>I'll look again, but so far, from ground level, I don't see anything wrong
>higher up.

Attach a mirror, pointing down, to a helium balloon. Then you can see
the top from above. Let me know if this works.

[micky]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 16:34:07 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
<puzz...@ameritech.net> wrote:

>
>Until I looked at his pictures, I was about to suggest calling the power
>company and asking them to come out and replace the meter - apparently
>removed by vandals and left laying on the ground - so that they could
>watch television tonight. An open meter can WILL get them moving faster.
>
>Alas, it appears they've converted him to a smart (for them) meter.
>Looks like the meter is blanked out so he has no way of reading/checking
>his usage.

YOu're right. I thought that was the dryer vent.

[Stormin Mormon]

Drill gently, and not far through the sheet metal box.
Don't want to drill into a live wire, and make sparks.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote in message news:kp0om7$at5$1...@dont-email.me...

[DerbyDad03]

If it's a downhill slope, an opening in the jacket might still let the
water flow out.

Perhaps you could force a drip loop (it wouldn't need much) along the run
to coax the water to flow to the slit.

[John Grabowski]

> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can help me
> figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric meter box so I
> can look inside and see if water is getting into that box.
>
> I think that water is getting into the outside meter box and then running
> down INSIDE the feed wire from there into my main service panel in the

> basement (not along the OUTSIDE of the feed wire, and not through the
> opening where the feed enters the building). I did try calling the
> electric company to get them to open it, but I am not having any luck with

> that. And, I do need to look inside the meter box to see what's going on,

> see if water is leaking into it, etc.
>

> Here are two photos of the electric meter box::
> http://tinypic.com/r/dmtwqx/5
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/11jlv8y/5
>
>
>
> It is the locking mechanism on the lower right corner of the box that I
> think I need to be able to open to take the cover off the box. I don't
> need to, or want to, pull the meter etc. -- I just want to look inside to
> look for signs of water getting into the meter box and, if so, where the
> water is coming in from.

*Try inserting an allen wrench inside of the small hole in the center of the
barrel and turning it. That what they use when I need a lock removed. If
it is too rusted, they cut it off with an angle grinder. Shoot some Liquid
Wrench in there before trying to remove it. One thing though, removal of
the lock could be construed as meter tampering.

You may not see much evidence of water in the meter. The water could be
traveling down the service entrance cable from the top at the weatherhead
and continue down into the basement. Older cloth type service entrance
cable can absorb water and that will also drip down into the electric panel.

Some cures for this are to replace the service entrance cable and
weatherhead, caulk the existing weatherhead, caulk the top of the meter
socket where the cable enters the connector.

[Bob F]

Keep in mind that the power people like to be the ones to remove and replace the
meter seal. You should be talking with them.

[TomR]

I did think about that, and I guess it is still a possibility as I think
more about it. I knew I couldn't/shouldn't do that on the outside of the
house because that could give rain water a new way to get inside the feed
wire. The only other place would be the two feet or so inside the house
from where it enters the house to the top of the main service panel. It
would have to be in a part of the run that is not above the main panel so it
wouldn't drip onto the panel -- and that location is pretty hard to get to.
I'm sure I'll want to try other options first, since keeping the water from
getting inside the feed wire in the first place would be the best solution.

But, if I do end up trying this, maybe I could put a tiny slit along the
bottom and put a small piece of cloth tape (or tie a small piece of cloth)
there to cause the water to drip there and not run down the outside of the
feed and into the main panel. Or, maybe do the slit idea and wrap a little
Ductseal around the feed below that point to create a drip point.

I do know all of the above is a little hokey to do or try, and I think that
finding the source of the problem would be better. But, while it was
pouring rain outside and the problem was active and dangerous, and I
couldn't get the utility company to come out there, doing one of the above
tricks may have worked or helped -- at least temporarily.

> Perhaps you could force a drip loop (it wouldn't need much) along the
> run to coax the water to flow to the slit.

I did look when the problem was happening, as well as afterward, and there
just is zero slack or ability to create a drip loop in the line itself. I
wish I could have done that, and if I could, that probably would have been
one of the first things I did.

I appreciate the suggestions.

[TomR]

John Grabowski wrote:
>> I'll spare everyone the details, but my question is if anyone can
>> help me figure out a way to open the lock on an outside electric
>> meter box so I can look inside and see if water is getting into that

>> box. I think that water is getting into the outside meter box . . . ,

>>
>> It is the locking mechanism on the lower right corner of the box
>> that I think I need to be able to open to take the cover off the
>> box. I don't need to, or want to, pull the meter etc. -- I just
>> want to look inside to look for signs of water getting into the
>> meter box and, if so, where the water is coming in from.

> *Try inserting an allen wrench inside of the small hole in the center
> of the barrel and turning it. That what they use when I need a lock
> removed. If it is too rusted, they cut it off with an angle grinder.
> Shoot some Liquid Wrench in there before trying to remove it. One
> thing though, removal of the lock could be construed as meter
> tampering.

Just out of curiosity, I'll probably try that in the next day or two. I
don't have small allen wrenches (I have them, but can't find them), but a
friend has them and I'll borrow his and see what happens.

Before posting my original post, I did some searches online and found one
YouTube video that looked like a possibility:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXz0H5D6jEc .

That actually doesn't look like what I have, but it gave me the idea to try
pushing something in to try to "spread the pin apart" (if there is one,
which I doubt). That didn't work.

> You may not see much evidence of water in the meter. The water could
> be traveling down the service entrance cable from the top at the
> weatherhead and continue down into the basement. Older cloth type
> service entrance cable can absorb water and that will also drip down
> into the electric panel.

My service entrance cable is newer and is plastic, not cloth, and looks like
it is in perfect condition. I'll look more up top (from the ground, since I
am not going up there) to see if I see any possible problem areas up there.

> Some cures for this are to replace the service entrance cable and
> weatherhead, caulk the existing weatherhead, caulk the top of the
> meter socket where the cable enters the connector.

I am going to do all of the "caulk the top of the meter socket where the
cable enters the connector" stuff, and related caulking in and around the
meter box, today. It would be great if that solves the problem, but I'll
have to wait for more rain to know for sure.

[Oren]

Just thinkin' out loud. If the power head mast is through the roof,
I'd check the flashing on the roof - ensure it is sealed.

[The Daring Dufas]

There are some cray-zee futher muckers out there making illegal power
hookups for a price and getting themselves prison terms when they're
caught. Guess where it happens a lot? ^_^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-4cSLH1DEA

TDD

[DerbyDad03]

On 6/9/2013 3:17 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

>>
>
> There are some cray-zee futher muckers out there making illegal power
> hookups for a price and getting themselves prison terms when they're
> caught. Guess where it happens a lot? ^_^
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-4cSLH1DEA
>
> TDD
>

...and there are some homeowners that don't put up with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWi54WtEwBU

It's the 2 legged dogs you have to worry about.

[TomR]

Thanks. No, mine does not go through the roof -- it's on the side of the
house.

[The Daring Dufas]

If I were on the jury, I would explain "jury nullification" to my fellow
jurors and convince them to set the hero free. ^_^

TDD

[TomR]

> itself. . . . ,

Okay, I looked again today, and it turns out that there is about a 2-foot
horizontal run of the service cable from where it comes into the house to
the top of the main service panel. I tried pulling down on that run in the
middle and I was able to get it to bow down just a little in the middle of
that run. So, I did that, and I went a head and put a tiny slit in the
insulation in the bottom of the bow. I did it as a "just-in-case-it-helps"
maneuver thinking that maybe that will create a new drip point before the
main service panel if I don't get the real cause of the problem solved.

Meanwhile, I caulked the heck out of the top and sides of the meter box and
all of the entrance fittings on top etc. using clear 100% silicone caulk.
The next time we have a heavy rain, I'll see if any of these ideas worked.

[bob haller]

On Jun 9, 7:45 pm, "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
> TomR wrote:
> > DerbyDad03 wrote:

> >> "TomR" <T...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
> >>> DerbyDad03 wrote:

try using a garden hose, beging down low to find out where the leak is

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

> try using a garden hose, beging down low to find out where the leak is- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The hose idea just popped into my mind, also, when I read what the OP
wrote about the rain having stopped. The trick will be to go upward
very slowly because it will take some time for the water to reach
visibility from wherever it actually enters, and if the OP goes too
fast, he will come up with the wrong location for the water to be
coming in.

[Mr.E]

Years as an electrical inspector allowed me to see many leaks. Most
common problem is seal between the top hub and the cable jacket. Easy
to fix by tightening the hub nut and coating the joints with silicone
or duct seal compound.
An often overlooked problem is the splices and wiring being above the
cable weatherhead. Water will wick right down the stranding. Fix is to
lower the splices below the weatherhead and have all conductors rise
to enter the weatherhead. Water will exit the wiring before entering
the weatherhead.
Some people seal the sides and bottom of the socket. A leak at the top
will force water into the socket.
If water entry is because of a missing hub-to-socket gasket, silicone
will usually seal the screws and the hub body.
--
Mr.E

[Mr.E]

One further note, see if the meter to socket door has a gasket or
seal. This can allow a lot of water into the socket. Duct seal will
seal this joint without hardening or gluing the door to the meter.
Good vinyl tape can also be used to seal this joint carefully.
--
Mr.E

[The Daring Dufas]

Back in the 90's one of my customers who owned a beauty shop in a nice
commercial building had the power knocked out in a storm. A tree landed
on the drop between the pole and building. The drop came in at an angle
and when the line was hit, the hub broke and the 2" conduit pivoted
around the center pipe clamp and cut the wires off like scissors at the
top of the meter box. Needless to say, a lot of fireworks ensued. I went
back in with a 400 amp 3ø service that was a lot of work so I ran the
shop on a rented 60kw diesel genset until the new service was ready for
the power company. The new service came into a 4" rigid attached to the
block wall with four sections of Unistrut reinforced on the inside of
the CMU wall with 3/4" plywood and thick fender washers. The customer's
husband insisted on a stronger service entrance and I accommodated him.
I ran the service entrance through the wall with an LB into a wire
trough with the service entrance cables running the length of the trough
and capped off with heat-shrink caps. Connections were made with the
equivalent of Buchanan B-TAP® Insulation Piercing Tap Connectors to tie
in several breaker panels. It was a large beauty shop with a lot of hair
dryers and a 10 ton rooftop AC unit. It had quite an electrical load so
the 400 amp service was adequate. If my memory hasn't failed me,
I think it had a newer 400 amp 3ø feed through meter instead of a CT
meter. I sealed the weather head with duct seal along with the top and
sides of the meter box. The LB through the wall was sealed with
expanding foam like "Great Stuff". I never had any water get through the
electrical service. I need to drive by there and see how it's held up
after all these years. ^_^

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/lugs/lugs_tap_b-tap_connectors.jsp

http://tinyurl.com/ota6sq5

TDD

[TomR]

> On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 07:22:15 -0400, Mr.E <Mr...@totally.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 19:45:54 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:
>>
>>> TomR wrote:
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I caulked the heck out of the top and sides of the meter
>>> box and all of the entrance fittings on top etc. using clear 100%
>>> silicone caulk. The next time we have a heavy rain, I'll see if any
>>> of these ideas worked.

This is a follow-up post to let everyone know how this all turned out.

Although my above post wasn't completely clear, what I had done at that
point in time was use silicone caulk on the top, the entry points on the
top, around the top "cover" of the meter box, and across the top and down
along the sides everywhere that the meter box met the wall of the house.

After I did the above, and after the next rain, I still had water coming in.
So, that didn't work.

I still wasn't able to arrange for the electric company to come out and meet
me there so they could open the box and I could see what the problem may be.
Instead, they just showed up unannounced one day when I wasn't there, looked
at the box, didn't do anything, and told the people who live there that the
caulking that I had done is all that they would have done and, supposedly
said I did a good job.

>> Mr.E wrote:

>> Years as an electrical inspector allowed me to see many leaks. Most
>> common problem is seal between the top hub and the cable jacket. Easy
>> to fix by tightening the hub nut and coating the joints with silicone
>> or duct seal compound.
>> An often overlooked problem is the splices and wiring being above the
>> cable weatherhead. Water will wick right down the stranding. Fix is
>> to lower the splices below the weatherhead and have all conductors
>> rise to enter the weatherhead. Water will exit the wiring before
>> entering the weatherhead.
>> Some people seal the sides and bottom of the socket. A leak at the
>> top will force water into the socket.
>> If water entry is because of a missing hub-to-socket gasket, silicone
>> will usually seal the screws and the hub body.

and,

> One further note, see if the meter to socket door has a gasket or
> seal. This can allow a lot of water into the socket. Duct seal will
> seal this joint without hardening or gluing the door to the meter.
> Good vinyl tape can also be used to seal this joint carefully.

After reading what Mr. E wrote, and having given up on the electric company
for any help in opening the meter box, I decided to do even more caulking of
the meter box. I used more clear 100% silicone caulk and caulked all around
the meter itself, and vertically down along the sides where the front cover
of the meter box meets the box. I also decided to caulk all around the
round mystery lock on the front that only the electric company can open.
So, now the meter box is completed sealed shut with my 100% clear silicone
caulk. I don't know if the electric company would think that was a good
idea or a bad one, but that's what I did.

Fortunately, that worked!

We have had tons and tons of heavy rain for the past two weeks and no water
is coming into the electric panel in the basement -- it is completely dry.
That means that the water leak problem was coming from the meter box itself
with water getting in there somewhere. The masthead (or whatever it is
called) above apparently was not a source of the problem since caulking the
meter box did the trick.

Here are two photos -- a before and after shot:
http://tinypic.com/r/qxjqso/5



http://tinypic.com/r/30rm99i/5 .



Unfortunately, the silicone caulk is clear, so it is hard to see, and I had
to take the photos with my cell phone which doesn't take very good pictures.
But, if you look at the second shot carefully, you may be able to see that I
caulked everything -- the top, the sides, around the meter, around the round
lock on the front, etc. And, that solved the problem.



Thanks everyone for your help.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 4 Jul 2013 17:53:23 -0400, "TomR" <To...@tomrljp5.lhd> wrote:



>After reading what Mr. E wrote, and having given up on the electric company
>for any help in opening the meter box, I decided to do even more caulking of
>the meter box. I used more clear 100% silicone caulk and caulked all around
>the meter itself, and vertically down along the sides where the front cover
>of the meter box meets the box. I also decided to caulk all around the
>round mystery lock on the front that only the electric company can open.
>So, now the meter box is completed sealed shut with my 100% clear silicone
>caulk. I don't know if the electric company would think that was a good
>idea or a bad one, but that's what I did.
>
>Fortunately, that worked!
>
>We have had tons and tons of heavy rain for the past two weeks and no water
>is coming into the electric panel in the basement -- it is completely dry.

I get all teary eyed when I read a happy ending like that. Good on ya!