Receptacles -- # of wires per screw
RonABC
attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
I've always heard that when wiring receptacles, one shouldn't attach more
than one wire to each screw. I haven't been able to locate anything about
that in the 2008 National Electrical Code. It may be in there, but so far,
I haven't been able to find it.
Part of why I am curious is that I notice that typical outlet receptacles
have two silver screws, two gold screws, and only one green grounding screw.
And that started me wondering, "Why aren't there two green grounding
screws?" For outlets that are in the middle of a circuit, there are
typically six wires in the outlet box -- two black, two white, and two
grounds. So, wouldn't it be easier if the receptacle had 6 screws? -- two
for the two black wires, two for the two white wires, and two for the two
ground wires?
Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected to the
one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per screw for the
white and black wires?
David Nebenzahl
> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>
> I've always heard that when wiring receptacles, one shouldn't attach more
> than one wire to each screw. I haven't been able to locate anything about
> that in the 2008 National Electrical Code. It may be in there, but so far,
> I haven't been able to find it.
I don't have the answer to this, and would like to know what (if
anything) the NEC has to say about it.
My own guideline is only 1 wire per screw, including ground screws: use
pigtails when more connections are needed. No need to ask for trouble.
--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".
- lifted from sci.electronics.repair
Kevin Ricks
> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>
> I've always heard that when wiring receptacles, one shouldn't attach
> more than one wire to each screw. I haven't been able to locate
> anything about that in the 2008 National Electrical Code. It may be in
> there, but so far, I haven't been able to find it.
It may be a function of how the devices are designed rather than an NEC
ruling. If they were not designed and/or UL listed to have more than one
wire that in itself I believe would fall under some general NEC
guidelines. But not sure what section?
>
> Part of why I am curious is that I notice that typical outlet
> receptacles have two silver screws, two gold screws, and only one green
> grounding screw. And that started me wondering, "Why aren't there two
> green grounding screws?" For outlets that are in the middle of a
> circuit, there are typically six wires in the outlet box -- two black,
> two white, and two grounds. So, wouldn't it be easier if the receptacle
> had 6 screws? -- two for the two black wires, two for the two white
> wires, and two for the two ground wires?
>
> Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected to
> the one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per screw
> for the white and black wires?
I am pretty sure you must wirenut the grounds. Using the special green
wirenuts with the feed hole makes this much easier.
As far as I know NEC does not require pigtails on the other wires but
some local codes do. Pigtails are better as a device failure is not as
likely to take out other devices down stream.
I prefer back feed type outlets which will take as many as 4 wires on
each side. Not as good as using pigtails but better and much easier
than wrapping wires around screws.
On occasion I will feed 2+ outlets or switches with a single wire. I
strip enough insulation off to wrap around a screw then continue the
same wire to the next outlet/switch.
Kevin
Steve Barker
the multiple cable outlet should be pigtailed out anyway. Only ONE
black, ONE white, and ONE bare go to the outlet. To daisy chain them
using the multiple screws is sloppy and asking for trouble.
s
David Nebenzahl
> the multiple cable outlet should be pigtailed out anyway. Only ONE
> black, ONE white, and ONE bare go to the outlet. To daisy chain them
> using the multiple screws is sloppy and asking for trouble.
Are you saying not to use both screws on a duplex outlet? I do this all
the time, and it seems perfectly safe and sensible, and saves a lot of
unnecessary pigtailing.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.
zxcvbob
If the receptacle had 2 green screws, or if you attached two wires to
the one screw, removing the receptacle would leave all the downstream
devices ungrounded until you hook it back up. With only one ground wire
going to it, the downstream devices are not dependent on it for their
grounds.
(I too *love* those heavy-duty back-wired outlets with all the clamp
terminals on the back. They work great for tying a bunch of cables
together -- but not the ground conductors.)
Bob
Phisherman
One wire, one screw. Not sure how two wires would even fit under one
screw, and if you did it would probably not be very secure. Sometimes
you have to use a pigtail. For most electrical outlets there are two
screws for the hot, two screws for the neutral, and one for the
ground.
RBM
"RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
news:gmr321$1ct$1...@news.motzarella.org...
There are a couple of code sections that would apply: Mostly in section 110
that require equipment be installed as per manufacturer instructions,
installed in a workmanlike manner, also 110.14A, which mentions that
terminals for more than one conductor shall be so identified
Seth Goodman
> On 2/9/2009 10:12 PM Steve Barker spake thus:
>
> > the multiple cable outlet should be pigtailed out anyway. Only ONE
> > black, ONE white, and ONE bare go to the outlet. To daisy chain them
> > using the multiple screws is sloppy and asking for trouble.
>
> Are you saying not to use both screws on a duplex outlet? I do this all
> the time, and it seems perfectly safe and sensible, and saves a lot of
> unnecessary pigtailing.
>
> Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.
By placing the receptacle in parallel with the circuit by pigtailing,
downstream outlets are unaffected by a problem with the receptacle, or
its outright removal.
--
Seth Goodman
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> So, wouldn't it be easier if the receptacle had 6 screws? -- two
> for the two black wires, two for the two white wires, and two for the two
> ground wires?
>
> Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected to the
> one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per screw for the
> white and black wires?
No, the grounds are bare so it is easy to twist them together in the
back of the box and cut one off short. Then you hook the remaining
wire over the single green screw and tighten it down.
For fixtures where you "need" to connect two wires to a single screw,
take a short length of same-colored wire and bug it on to the two
wires as a pigtail using a crimped Buchanan connector or a wire nut.
RonABC
> "RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
> news:gmr321$1ct$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
>> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
> There are a couple of code sections that would apply: Mostly in
> section 110 that require equipment be installed as per manufacturer
> instructions, installed in a workmanlike manner, also 110.14A, which
> mentions that terminals for more than one conductor shall be so
> identified.
Thanks. I think that's it. I don't think I've ever seen anything on any
electrical terminals that identify them as being for more than one
conductor, but I'll have to try looking at different devices and maybe the
manufacturer specifications for each device.
RonABC
>> On Feb 10, 12:24 am, "RonABC" <r...@hytre.abc> wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected
>> to the one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per
>> screw for the white and black wires?
> No, the grounds are bare so it is easy to twist them together in the
> back of the box and cut one off short. Then you hook the remaining
> wire over the single green screw and tighten it down.
I assume that you mean twist them together using a wire nut (such as a green
one with a hole in the center), since just twisting them together without
one doesn't meet the code.
Also, if the wire that is cut off short leaves it with less than 6 inches of
wire in the box, that would not meet the code requirements.
bud--
> RonABC wrote:
>> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
>> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>>
>> I've always heard that when wiring receptacles, one shouldn't attach
>> more than one wire to each screw. I haven't been able to locate
>> anything about that in the 2008 National Electrical Code. It may be
>> in there, but so far, I haven't been able to find it.
>>
>> Part of why I am curious is that I notice that typical outlet
>> receptacles have two silver screws, two gold screws, and only one
>> green grounding screw. And that started me wondering, "Why aren't
>> there two green grounding screws?" For outlets that are in the middle
>> of a circuit, there are typically six wires in the outlet box -- two
>> black, two white, and two grounds. So, wouldn't it be easier if the
>> receptacle had 6 screws? -- two for the two black wires, two for the
>> two white wires, and two for the two ground wires?
>>
>> Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected
>> to the one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per
>> screw for the white and black wires?
>
>
> If the receptacle had 2 green screws, or if you attached two wires to
> the one screw, removing the receptacle would leave all the downstream
> devices ungrounded until you hook it back up. With only one ground wire
> going to it, the downstream devices are not dependent on it for their
> grounds.
Yes. The code requirement is at 250.148-B.
For a multiwire branch circuit (with a common neutral), if you break the
neutral while the circuit is hot the downstream voltages can shift. As
above, I believe the neutral has to be spliced, with a single wire to a
receptacle. (Briefly looking, I couldn't find a code requirement.)
--
bud--
David Nebenzahl
But the only problem with the receptacle that could affect downstream
devices would be if the metal "bridge" between the two screws somehow
burned or melted out; pretty unlikely to happen. I still think this is a
perfectly good wiring method.
RBM
"RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
Personally, I'm curious about receptacles with screw clamps. Each clamp has
two holes where wires can be inserted, and there are 4 clamps. That could be
one pile of wires. I prefer to use pigtails on any receptacle with more than
four wires.
>
>
RonABC
>
> Yes. The code requirement is at 250.148-B.
>
Thanks. Apparently, that is the exact code requirement that I was wondering
about.
Here's what is says (from the 2008 National Electrical Code):
"250.148(B) Grounding Continuity. The arrangement of grounding connections
shall be such that the disconnection or the removal of a receptacle,
luminaire, or other device fed from the box does not interfere with or
interrupt the grounding continuity."
RBM
Steve Barker
> On 2/9/2009 10:12 PM Steve Barker spake thus:
>
>> the multiple cable outlet should be pigtailed out anyway. Only ONE
>> black, ONE white, and ONE bare go to the outlet. To daisy chain them
>> using the multiple screws is sloppy and asking for trouble.
>
> Are you saying not to use both screws on a duplex outlet? I do this all
> the time, and it seems perfectly safe and sensible, and saves a lot of
> unnecessary pigtailing.
>
> Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.
>
>
You're not misunderstanding.
to daisy chain from outlet to outlet using the double set of screws will
lead to trouble down the line. Especially if you have to take an outlet
out of the mix. Then you'd be killing everyone down stream also.
s
David Nebenzahl
Pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, isn't it?
Besides, by using the clamps, you'd reduce the volume of stuff in the
box by cutting down on the number of wire nuts, which take up space.
David Nebenzahl
Why? When you work on the circuit, you need to disconnect the power
anyhow. If you need to remove an outlet, you can simply wire-nut the two
sets of wires together and everyone's back in business. I don't see the
problem.
RBM
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4992392a$0$2701$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 2/10/2009 11:26 AM RBM spake thus:
>
>> "RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
>> news:gms2dp$c16$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> >
>>> RBM wrote:
> >>
>>>> "RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
>>>> news:gmr321$1ct$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> >>>
>>>>> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
>>>>> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>>>
>>>> There are a couple of code sections that would apply: Mostly in
>>>> section 110 that require equipment be installed as per manufacturer
>>>> instructions, installed in a workmanlike manner, also 110.14A, which
>>>> mentions that terminals for more than one conductor shall be so
>>>> identified.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I think that's it. I don't think I've ever seen anything on
>>> any electrical terminals that identify them as being for more than one
>>> conductor, but I'll have to try looking at different devices and maybe
>>> the manufacturer specifications for each device.
>>
>> Personally, I'm curious about receptacles with screw clamps. Each clamp
>> has two holes where wires can be inserted, and there are 4 clamps. That
>> could be one pile of wires. I prefer to use pigtails on any receptacle
>> with more than four wires.
>
> Pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, isn't it?
>
> Besides, by using the clamps, you'd reduce the volume of stuff in the box
> by cutting down on the number of wire nuts, which take up space.
That's true, but a lot of those clamps don't work particularly well with
solid conductors. Wire nuts installed correctly stay tight
Tom Horne
This last statement is untrue. The code requires six inches of wire
in the box and extending at least three inches beyond the opening of
the box "for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or
devices." The code does not require that the conductors be that long
after the splices are made up and the devices installed. Requiring
that would overcrowd many boxes and cause more problems.
--
Tom Horne
Tom Horne
> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>
> news:4992392a$0$2701$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>
>
> > On 2/10/2009 11:26 AM RBM spake thus:
>
> >>news:gms2dp$c16$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
> >>> RBM wrote:
>
> >>>> "RonABC" <r...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
> >>>>news:gmr321$1ct$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
> >>>>> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
> >>>>> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>
> >>>> There are a couple of code sections that would apply: Mostly in
> >>>> section 110 that require equipment be installed as per manufacturer
> >>>> instructions, installed in a workmanlike manner, also 110.14A, which
> >>>> mentions that terminals for more than one conductor shall be so
> >>>> identified.
>
> >>> Thanks. I think that's it. I don't think I've ever seen anything on
> >>> any electrical terminals that identify them as being for more than one
> >>> conductor, but I'll have to try looking at different devices and maybe
> >>> the manufacturer specifications for each device.
>
> >> Personally, I'm curious about receptacles with screw clamps. Each clamp
> >> has two holes where wires can be inserted, and there are 4 clamps. That
> >> could be one pile of wires. I prefer to use pigtails on any receptacle
> >> with more than four wires.
>
> > Pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, isn't it?
>
> > Besides, by using the clamps, you'd reduce the volume of stuff in the box
> > by cutting down on the number of wire nuts, which take up space.
>
> That's true, but a lot of those clamps don't work particularly well with
> solid conductors. Wire nuts installed correctly stay tight
>
>
I do not know which clamps you are referring to but that does not
reconcile with my experience in thirty three years in the craft. The
screw tightened clamps I have encountered have been fine on both
stranded and solid conductors and work better on stranded wire then
any screw binding connection without clamps ever would.
--
Tom Horne
Tom Horne
"110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of
Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be
installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the
listing or labeling."
Information included with the listing can only be found in the
Building Materials List published by the testing laboratory. To be
included with the labeling the instructions must be contained within
the outlined area that contains the testing laboratory seal. An
Example would be "Underwriters Laboratory Listed. Copper Conductors
Only." The instructions within the package that say use only
manufacturers parts are not enforceable because they are not included
with the Listing. The testing laboratories list items that are
recognized for use with other manufacturers equipment. Thomas &
Bettes makes an extensive line of circuit breakers that have been
recognized for use in other manufacturers panels. Each manufacturer
specifically says use only our breakers. That is not an instruction
that is included in the listing or labeling and is therefore
unenforceable.
--
Tom Horne
DT
>"RonABC" <ra...@hytre.abc> wrote in message
>There are a couple of code sections that would apply: Mostly in section 110
>that require equipment be installed as per manufacturer instructions,
>installed in a workmanlike manner, also 110.14A, which mentions that
>terminals for more than one conductor shall be so identified
This seems correct. I always learned that the fallback for things is the
"Authority Having Jurisdiction". The NEC usually acts as the AHJ, but if
something is not specified by code (NEC or local), the AHJ is usually the
manufacturer. If they intended two wires to be clamped, the device would be so
designed and labelled.
--
Dennis
RBM
"Tom Horne" <hor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:462b62e5-9100-4e1f...@m42g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
--
Tom Horne
And in my thirty seven years in the business, I've found clamps work great
on stranded conductors, but on some devices, such as Leviton GFCI outlets,
the clamps are not nearly as secure with solid conductors
David Nebenzahl
> "Tom Horne" <hor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:462b62e5-9100-4e1f...@m42g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I do not know which clamps you are referring to but that does not
> reconcile with my experience in thirty three years in the craft. The
> screw tightened clamps I have encountered have been fine on both
> stranded and solid conductors and work better on stranded wire then
> any screw binding connection without clamps ever would.
>
> And in my thirty seven years in the business, I've found clamps work
> great on stranded conductors, but on some devices, such as Leviton
> GFCI outlets, the clamps are not nearly as secure with solid
> conductors
I've used those same outlets and have never experienced any problems
securing solid wire (#12 or #14) to the clamps. What specific problems
have you had?
pheeh...@gmail.com
> Is there a specific electrical code that states how many wires can be
> attached per screw when wiring outlet receptacles?
>
> than one wire to each screw. I haven't been able to locate anything about
> that in the 2008 National Electrical Code. It may be in there, but so far,
> I haven't been able to find it.
>
> Part of why I am curious is that I notice that typical outlet receptacles
> have two silver screws, two gold screws, and only one green grounding screw.
> And that started me wondering, "Why aren't there two green grounding
> screws?" For outlets that are in the middle of a circuit, there are
> typically six wires in the outlet box -- two black, two white, and two
> grounds. So, wouldn't it be easier if the receptacle had 6 screws? -- two
> for the two black wires, two for the two white wires, and two for the two
> ground wires?
>
> Is it possible that the code allows two ground wires to be connected to the
> one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per screw for the
> white and black wires?
If you use back-feed and one wire on the screw-you can utilize 3 wires
per screw. These are normally commercial or hospital grade 15 or
20Amp.
RBM
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> On 2/11/2009 4:27 AM RBM spake thus:
>
>> "Tom Horne" <hor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:462b62e5-9100-4e1f...@m42g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I do not know which clamps you are referring to but that does not
>> reconcile with my experience in thirty three years in the craft. The
>> screw tightened clamps I have encountered have been fine on both
>> stranded and solid conductors and work better on stranded wire then
>> any screw binding connection without clamps ever would.
>>
>> And in my thirty seven years in the business, I've found clamps work
>> great on stranded conductors, but on some devices, such as Leviton
>> GFCI outlets, the clamps are not nearly as secure with solid
>> conductors
>
> I've used those same outlets and have never experienced any problems
> securing solid wire (#12 or #14) to the clamps. What specific problems
> have you had?
The problem is, that after tightening, the wires come loose when pushing the
outlet back into the wall. They don't always come loose, but of the hundreds
of these things I've installed, too many do come loose. Conversely, of the
thousands of outlets I've installed with screw tight connectors, I've never
had one come loose
RonABC
Do you have to know where it says that in the code? I'd be interested in
looking that up and reading exactly what it says. Thanks.
RonABC
code?"
bud--
300.14
RonABC
>
> This last statement is untrue. The code requires six inches of wire
> in the box and extending at least three inches beyond the opening of
> the box "for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or
> devices." The code does not require that the conductors be that long
> after the splices are made up and the devices installed.
I think you may be misreading what the code says and you are incorrectly
concluding that, after the splices are made, the length of conductor rule no
longer applies. The requirements are under 300.14, and then it says:
"Exception: Conductors that are *NOT* (emphasis added by me) spliced or
terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to
comply with 300.14."
In other words, conductors that *ARE* spliced or terminated at the box do
have to comply with 300.14 even after they are spliced or terminated. Only
the unspliced or un-terminated-at-the-box conductors do not have to comply.
Smitty Two
David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 2/10/2009 5:37 AM Seth Goodman spake thus:
>
> > In article <4991228f$0$2697$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com> on Mon,
> > 09 Feb 2009 22:47:38 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/9/2009 10:12 PM Steve Barker spake thus:
> >>
> >> > the multiple cable outlet should be pigtailed out anyway. Only ONE
> >> > black, ONE white, and ONE bare go to the outlet. To daisy chain them
> >> > using the multiple screws is sloppy and asking for trouble.
> >>
> >> Are you saying not to use both screws on a duplex outlet? I do this all
> >> the time, and it seems perfectly safe and sensible, and saves a lot of
> >> unnecessary pigtailing.
> >>
> >> Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said.
> >
> > By placing the receptacle in parallel with the circuit by pigtailing,
> > downstream outlets are unaffected by a problem with the receptacle, or
> > its outright removal.
>
> But the only problem with the receptacle that could affect downstream
> devices would be if the metal "bridge" between the two screws somehow
> burned or melted out; pretty unlikely to happen. I still think this is a
> perfectly good wiring method.
I'm with you on this. I see the pigtail system advocated frequently
here, and I think it's a lot of extra work for trivial if any gain. And,
I don't know where the pigtail people are finding all that room in a
typical old box to cram all that extra wire and wirenuts.
Smitty Two
wrote:
> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:49932077$0$2707$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> > On 2/11/2009 4:27 AM RBM spake thus:
> >
> >> "Tom Horne" <hor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:462b62e5-9100-4e1f...@m42g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> I do not know which clamps you are referring to but that does not
> >> reconcile with my experience in thirty three years in the craft. The
> >> screw tightened clamps I have encountered have been fine on both
> >> stranded and solid conductors and work better on stranded wire then
> >> any screw binding connection without clamps ever would.
> >>
> >> And in my thirty seven years in the business, I've found clamps work
> >> great on stranded conductors, but on some devices, such as Leviton
> >> GFCI outlets, the clamps are not nearly as secure with solid
> >> conductors
> >
> > I've used those same outlets and have never experienced any problems
> > securing solid wire (#12 or #14) to the clamps. What specific problems
> > have you had?
>
> The problem is, that after tightening, the wires come loose when pushing the
> outlet back into the wall. They don't always come loose, but of the hundreds
> of these things I've installed, too many do come loose. Conversely, of the
> thousands of outlets I've installed with screw tight connectors, I've never
> had one come loose
> >
I used a few of those back clamp style at the g.f.'s house, and found I
had to torque the screws far beyond what I'd consider "reasonable and
customary" to keep the wires from breaking loose while folding them back
into the box. Went back to the side screws after that.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Not to mention a wirenut connection is NOT as secure and easily
verified as a screw terminal connection. And the whole aluminun
pigtail to copper fiasco is even worse. Why would you add another
connection when CoALR devices are available???
Steve Barker
it's actually easier to pigtail than to stuff an outlet back in with all
4 on IT.
I just did it both ways last night, and the pigtailing is far easier.
s
Steve Barker
who said anythin about using aluminum ?
s
Dan Lanciani
The problem I've seen is not that the wires come out but that they rotate
in place making me at least believe that they are not secure. This happens
with old wire that has obviously been bent many times before (perhaps work
hardened?). I find that there is a very narrow range of tightness between
when the wires stop rotating and when the screw strips. It is also mostly
a problem when only one wire is under the clamp, forcing it off-center and
allowing one side to bottom out. With two wires (i.e., one on each side of
the screw) things work better.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Tom Horne
Ron
I was not basing my position on the exception bout on the wording I
quoted in my reply. Two different boards of appeal that I know of
have come down in the same place. I know of no contrary formal
interpretation. I'll quote the whole section so that those without
ready access can follow the discussion.
"300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch
Points.
At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in
the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be
left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the
connection of luminaires (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to
an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in
any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least
75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.
Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the
outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with
300.14."
My position, and the position of the Virginia state board of permit
appeals, is that the six inches of free conductors is required in
order to have enough wire to make the splices and connections during
make up and not forever afterward.
--
Tom Horne
RBM
--
Tom Horne
That's all fine and well, but it would really be helpful if in the future,
you preface your replies to indicate that you're quoting some particular
entities interpretation of the NEC
David Nebenzahl
> it's actually easier to pigtail than to stuff an outlet back in with
> all 4 on IT.
>
> I just did it both ways last night, and the pigtailing is far easier.
That could be true, and I'll take your word for it, but there's still
the problem of all the extra room needed for wirenuts. Might work fine
in a nice roomy 4x4 box, not so well in an existing duplex outlet box.
terry
> >> to the one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per
> >> screw for the white and black wires?
> > back of the box and cut one off short. Then you hook the remaining
> > wire over the single green screw and tighten it down.
>
> I assume that you mean twist them together using a wire nut (such as a green
> one with a hole in the center), since just twisting them together without
> one doesn't meet the code.
>
> wire in the box, that would not meet the code requirements.
I read that as 'Twist bare ground wires together place the twisted
section under screw of the metal box and then use one of the wires to
connect to the duplex'.
Unless the outlet is being 'split' (For say an Edison circuit or to
switch one of the hots of the outlet) there is provision on a typical
duplex to terminate two white neutrals and two black live wires. Other
than that pigtail them. And yes I prefer a good quality duplex that
has those terminals that trap the stripped wire end under a metal
plate as screw is tightened down.
RBM
"RBM" <r...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:49960b65$0$20292$607e...@cv.net...
state, have to interpret National Electric Code? They have the right to use
it, or not, they can make their own code if they choose, but the NFPA, the
people who write the NEC, have panels of their own, who you can write to, to
have any section of code interpreted. How arrogant that would be for someone
to believe that they can interpret something better than it's author.
Bob
running through to box, leaving enough slack to meet wiring
requirements. Then just strip enough insulation to wrap around the
screw terminal. Conceivably, this practice could be used with NM cable,
but it would require a lot of effort during the cable run process.
David Combs
Kevin Ricks <klr...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>I prefer back feed type outlets which will take as many as 4 wires on
>each side. Not as good as using pigtails but better and much easier
>than wrapping wires around screws.
>
>On occasion I will feed 2+ outlets or switches with a single wire. I
>strip enough insulation off to wrap around a screw then continue the
>same wire to the next outlet/switch.
>
>Kevin
>
Hi! What's a "back feed type outlet"?
Thanks!
David
David Combs
>> for the two black wires, two for the two white wires, and two for the two
>> ground wires?
>>
>> one green grounding screw, but does not permit two wires per screw for the
>> white and black wires?
>
>No, the grounds are bare so it is easy to twist them together in the
>back of the box and cut one off short. Then you hook the remaining
>wire over the single green screw and tighten it down.
>
>take a short length of same-colored wire and bug it on to the two
>wires as a pigtail using a crimped Buchanan connector or a wire nut.
Are you saying that when you need to connect two wires to a
screw, what you do is pigtail THREE wires together, and then
that third wire, the new, short one, and hook THAT one to the screw?
Thanks,
David
Steve Barker
Exactly, you got it. and if the box happens to serve two directions
then you have four in the nut counting the pigtail.
steve
Stormin Mormon
term we're seeking?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"David Combs" <dkc...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:gpcchb$2vs$1...@reader1.panix.com...
In article <eS8kl.20071$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Kevin Ricks <klr...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>I prefer back feed type outlets which will take as many as
>4 wires on
>
Smitty Two
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have heard of "back stab" outlets. Perhaps that's the
> term we're seeking?
Why is it that you don't believe the many people who have very clearly
explained the problems with your sig line, and your top-posting? Poster
A made a statement. Poster B asked for a definition of a term. Then
along you come and top-post. Now, where would I reply to your post, so
that the posts follow one another in logical, sequential order? And how
would I do it, since your sig line is fucked up?
No. Back stab and back feed are two different animals. We go over this
at least once a month.
Rick-Meister
it into the hole. It has spring clips inside that grab the wire.
They save a lot of time because you just strip and stab. But many
professional electricians won't use the backstab method because over
time the copper clips heat up and create a bad connection. Once they
start heating up the extra resistance creates even more heat until the
connection fails. Most common symptom of this is intermittent
operation. Backstabbing has a much higher failure rate than wire
wrapping around the screws.
It's a shortcut that can bite you down the road.
Smitty Two
Rick-Meister <Rick-m...@noemail.net> wrote:
Arrghh. A back feed outlet has holes in the back, but it does not have
springs. It has screw driven clamps.
The Daring Dufas
And those are the type I prefer for stranded
wire. You don't have to crimp a forked connector
onto the wire to hook it to the outlet.
TDD
<RJ>
>> A backfeed outlet has holes in the back. You strip the wire and "stab"
>> it into the hole. It has spring clips inside that grab the wire.
>>
>> They save a lot of time because you just strip and stab. But many
>> professional electricians won't use the backstab method because over
>> time the copper clips heat up and create a bad connection. Once they
>> start heating up the extra resistance creates even more heat until the
>> connection fails. Most common symptom of this is intermittent
>> operation. Backstabbing has a much higher failure rate than wire
>> wrapping around the screws.
>>
>> It's a shortcut that can bite you down the road.
And yet, they're UL approved. !
What other dangerous products does UL approve ?
fftt
> On 2/13/2009 2:12 PM Steve Barker spake thus:
>
> > it's actually easier to pigtail than to stuff an outlet back in with
> > all 4 on IT.
>
> > I just did it both ways last night, and the pigtailing is far easier.
>
> That could be true, and I'll take your word for it, but there's still
> the problem of all the extra room needed for wirenuts. Might work fine
> in a nice roomy 4x4 box, not so well in an existing duplex outlet box.
>
>>>>>Might work fine
in a nice roomy 4x4 box, not so well in an existing duplex outlet box.
<<<<<<
I think if you do the "fill calc" (unless I did them wrong) many
duplex outlet boxes are undersized for a lot of multiple wire
situations
cheers
Bob
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Aluminum wiring, Urea Formaldehyde insulation, ventless propane space
heaters,to name a few, have all at one time or other been approved.