removing baseboard without damage
Nate Nagel
that process is providing a few auxiliary grounds upstairs so that the
previous renovation work that was wired with grounded Romex will in fact
be properly grounded. I need to peel back some baseboard to do this.
Unfortunately, one wall is thin wood paneling, not plaster. I started
by trying to pull the baseboard there, as that's where I need to run the
first wire. Apparently the baseboard is held on by nails that are
stronger than your average finishing nail. I cut through the paint and
managed to separate the top of the baseboard from the wall with a thick
putty knife; that's where I'm stuck. The putty knife is not strong
enough to pry it free; I haven't pulled it away from the wall far enough
to try a pry bar, and a screwdriver mars the paneling. Any ideas?
Should I just keep doing what I'm doing, then cut the nails with a
hacksaw blade, or is there a tool that I ought to have that'd work for
this? Am thinking maybe run to FLAPS and buy a gasket scraper?
In case it matters, this is a three piece baseboard - main baseboard is
a 1x4 with a piece of molding on top and a quarter round at the floor.
I really only want to get the top piece off as I'm just going to hide a
14 AWG ground wire behind it and nail it back on.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Pete C.
Locate the nails in the baseboard and use a good nail set punch to drive
them all the way through the baseboard. When finished with your work
nail the baseboard back with new nails in new positions, then putty the
holes and paint.
mcp6453
Not intended as a hijack, but what would you recommend for stained baseboard?
EXT
I use a very thin, flat prybar that has an edge that is almost sharp like a
knife and thickens to about 3/16" thick, made by Stanley. You push or hammer
the sharp edge behind the baseboard and pry (sometimes with a wide putty
knife behind it to prevent marring the wall). The baseboard should come
loose either pulling the nails through it or pulling the nails out. Remove
the nails by pulling them all through the board so that the finished surface
is not damaged.
Oren
aemeijers
>
> - Show quoted text -
If the wood is soft enough to drive the nails through, that is a good
solution. Back in stone age, we used a matched pair of the mini-size
Stanley Wonder Bars (the little chrome ones), and some stiff carboard
to protect the wall above. You have to keep them clean and sharp,
almost chisel sharp. Get one bar started, move down a foot, get the
second one started, pry a little on the first one, pull it loose and
move down to position 3, lather, rinse, repeat. Goal is to pull the
board and nail at the same time. Get one end started, and keep going
back and forth till enough of the board is loose that you can pull on
it. Other option, of course, is to just rip the top trim off and
replace it, if you can find a modern profile that is a close enough
match.
---
aem sends, still on Google for another week till I get home....
Oren
<noe...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:
>I use a very thin, flat prybar that has an edge that is almost sharp like a
>knife and thickens to about 3/16" thick, made by Stanley. You push or hammer
>the sharp edge behind the baseboard and pry (sometimes with a wide putty
>knife behind it to prevent marring the wall). The baseboard should come
>loose either pulling the nails through it or pulling the nails out. Remove
>the nails by pulling them all through the board so that the finished surface
>is not damaged.
Wonder bar from Stanley... it's my go too tool for trim and baseboard
removal.
Jay-T
http://www.drillspot.com/products/574998/hangzhou_great_star_indust_5026tv_mp_3_bent_pole_scraper
It is stiff and starts the pry-off. Then I place a metal putty knife on the
wall/paneling behind whatever I am using to pry it further (such as a
screwdriver or pry bar). The metal putty knife protects the paneling from
being dented/damaged by the prying device.
Or, to cut nails, you could try a MultiMax with a metal cutting blade --
again, placing a putty knife or square metal trowel over the paneling to
prevent damaging it while cutting.
"Nate Nagel" <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in message
news:hh0rs...@news2.newsguy.com...
Phisherman
wrote:
I use a putty knife to protect the wall, then use another tool such as
a prybar to gently lift off the trim. Try a few putty knives and pry
bars until you get one just right. Patience will help you from
damaging the trim/wall. With damage you will be creating another job
so be careful. If there is caulk, remove that first. I use a 7-in-1
tool (a snazzy putty knife) to remove trim.
Pete C.
Same process and use a good color matched putty.
Red Green
You've got many good suggestions to try Nate. I'm gonna guess that if
you do get one all the way out that it's a ringed nail and that's why
it's tough and/or it's very long and/or you have some wood back there
that's old and hard as a rock.
Paneling nails are usually (always?) ringed.
Twayne
Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> typed:
Try a Mason't spatula. Masonry tools are quite strong. Or one of the S
shaped pry bars, with thins ends. Not a construction bar, but a smaller
version; like in the 17" range. Hope I"ve made sense out of that. It's what
I've used for that kind of job and others like it.
Twayne
--
--
We've already reached
tomorrow's yesterday
but we're still far away from
yesterday's tomorrow.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
The wonder bars have saved me several times
Bob F
I have a steel bar. It is 1/4" x 1 1/4" or so and maybe 2 1/2' long, with the
last 6 inches bent maybe 45 degrees. I pry the baseboard out enough to slip the
bent end behind it. Then I push the other end to the side, causing the bar to
twist behind the board, prying it out. It's a really good tool for this job.
Very powerful, and it focuses the force evenly right at the nail, minimizing
damage.
RicodJour
I like the Shark pry bar.
http://www.amazon.com/Shark-21-2225-10-Inch-Prybar-Puller/dp/B0000224TY
It's got a wide whale-tail that's thin and gently curved. Does an
excellent job of getting behind trim without damaging it. As others
have noted, use something to protect the wall regardless of what type
of pry bar you use.
R
homer
>I'm still trying to put all my electrical stuff to rights... part of
Available at all the big box stores.
nor...@earthlink.net
length of the part so it doesn't break in the middle. I've used pry
bars with a piece of wood behind it to protect the adjacent surface and
then pry against that. If you tap the baseboard back on gently with a
cushioned mallet, perhaps the nails will be visible from the front. I
can't imagine taking it off without some damage to the finish, esp.
around nail holes. Could there be glue or caulk between the separate
strips that is holding fast?
HeyBub
Right. I've got that tool and it does what it's supposed to do. However, I
bought mine at HF for $4 instead of the $14.00 that Amazon wants (discounted
from $27.00).
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43651
Steve B
caulk bead if there is one. Then just carefully remove the trim. Use a 3"
squar of thin plywood or laminate to put under your pry bar to protect the
drywall from dimpling. If a nail wants to go through the baseboard rather
than come out, let it and then pull it. Watch out for pipes and mark on
reinatall so you don't puncture any.
HTH
Steve
nor...@earthlink.net
I just remembered all of the baseboards I have seen (including my
present home) that have caulk along the baseboard/flooring joint.
Perhaps running a sharp blade along the base will free it up.
Steve B
>> You sound experienced enough to know you should pry gradually along the
>> length of the part so it doesn't break in the middle. I've used pry bars
>> with a piece of wood behind it to protect the adjacent surface and then
>> pry against that. If you tap the baseboard back on gently with a
>> cushioned mallet, perhaps the nails will be visible from the front. I
>> can't imagine taking it off without some damage to the finish, esp.
>> around nail holes. Could there be glue or caulk between the separate
>> strips that is holding fast?
You sound like you are doing what you need to be doing. Just go slow, and
make sure that you have cut through the bead, as some places it is much
thicker than others. Also, older baseboard is cut fingerjointed. That is
like pushing your fingers together. It is weak there, and will usually
break there, and in a lot of pieces of baseboard, they used the scraps, so
runs of contiguous materials aren't very long.
Steve
Jim Elbrecht
>RicodJour wrote:
-snip-
>>
>> I like the Shark pry bar.
>> http://www.amazon.com/Shark-21-2225-10-Inch-Prybar-Puller/dp/B0000224TY
>> It's got a wide whale-tail that's thin and gently curved. Does an
>> excellent job of getting behind trim without damaging it. As others
>> have noted, use something to protect the wall regardless of what type
>> of pry bar you use.
>>
>
>Right. I've got that tool and it does what it's supposed to do. However, I
>bought mine at HF for $4 instead of the $14.00 that Amazon wants (discounted
>from $27.00).
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43651
>
I'm partial to this $3 one-
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2529
I like the 2 flat ends, and the 'keyhole' nail puller.
Jim
willshak
and top molding and between the top molding and baseboard. This will
prevent paint chipping along the seams when you pull of the molding.
After that, use a flat scraper, the wider the better, to pry the top
molding off. Start at each point where there is a finish nail holding
the top molding on. Some nails may pull through the molding and remain
in the wall, others may just come off with the molding.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
willshak
I have one of those and I find that it often dents the molding or
sheetrock when trying to tap it between the two. Once you use a thinner
flat bade to start the removal, that tool will work to finish the
removal, but I wouldn't use it alone.
Steve B
"Jim Elbrecht" <elbr...@email.com> wrote
> I like the 2 flat ends, and the 'keyhole' nail puller.
>
> Jim
I like a pair of old regular Vise Grips. You can clamp on to the nail, and
the rounded back side of the head is perfect for soft continuous leverage
(use a piece of plywood or laminate to prevent dimpling of drywall or
baseboard), and the pull of the pliers is practically straight out. It even
works for nails that have been broken off, and you can't get ahold of them
with a keyhole nail puller. You can adjust the depth at which you grab the
nail, and set the whole geometry of the operation at exactly the right
angle.
Steve
Red Green
news:tLKdnavwl-zunKjW...@supernews.com:
> Jim Elbrecht wrote the following:
>> "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> RicodJour wrote:
>>>
>> -snip-
>>
>>>> I like the Shark pry bar.
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Shark-21-2225-10-Inch-Prybar-Puller/dp/B000022
>>>> 4TY It's got a wide whale-tail that's thin and gently curved. Does
>>>> an excellent job of getting behind trim without damaging it. As
>>>> others have noted, use something to protect the wall regardless of
>>>> what type of pry bar you use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Right. I've got that tool and it does what it's supposed to do.
>>> However, I bought mine at HF for $4 instead of the $14.00 that
>>> Amazon wants (discounted
>>>
>> >from $27.00).
>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4365
>>> 1
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm partial to this $3 one-
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2529
>> I like the 2 flat ends, and the 'keyhole' nail puller.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> I have one of those and I find that it often dents the molding or
> sheetrock when trying to tap it between the two.
Yep. A piece of thin plywood or scrap of heavy gauge sheet metal on the
wall side.
Usually I hit the joint with a razor knife to break an caulk/paint beads.
Then start with wall protector and a painters tool at or near a nail
location,
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/5-1-painter-tool.jpg
separate enough to get in a mini wonder flat bar, separate more, then a
regular size flat bar. Work down to the next nail with duplicate tools if
necessary.
Quite often I look ahead and just trash the existing and replace it. When
you think about the time to carefully remove, fix all the dents and
holes, sand and prime those spots so they don't show under the new
semigloss paint replacing, it just isn't worth trying to save.
But I guess if you are only doing one piece in an area, you really don't
want one piece to look brand new and stick out.
Jim Elbrecht
>willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote in
>news:tLKdnavwl-zunKjW...@supernews.com:
>
>> Jim Elbrecht wrote the following:
-snip-
>>>
>>> I'm partial to this $3 one-
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2529
>>> I like the 2 flat ends, and the 'keyhole' nail puller.
>>
>> I have one of those and I find that it often dents the molding or
>> sheetrock when trying to tap it between the two.
>
>Yep. A piece of thin plywood or scrap of heavy gauge sheet metal on the
>wall side.
>
>Usually I hit the joint with a razor knife to break an caulk/paint beads.
>Then start with wall protector and a painters tool at or near a nail
>location,
> http://www.kk.org/cooltools/5-1-painter-tool.jpg
>separate enough to get in a mini wonder flat bar, separate more, then a
>regular size flat bar. Work down to the next nail with duplicate tools if
>necessary.
yup! Perfect. And those 5 in tools will take a razor edge on that
point.
>
>Quite often I look ahead and just trash the existing and replace it. When
>you think about the time to carefully remove, fix all the dents and
>holes, sand and prime those spots so they don't show under the new
>semigloss paint replacing, it just isn't worth trying to save.
>
I'm with you here, too. On some jobs I don't count my labor as
worth much-- but on removing molding I charge myself $20/hr because I
hate that work--- so if I can take out the wall and make it work I'd
much rather do it that way.
Also- looking around, I note that most my baseboards are now 4/4x3 1/2
cherry with a plain bead- and oil-rubbed finish. They are strong
as can be if they need to be removed, and they finish back up real
nice if they get a dent or scratch.
Jim
Jim Elbrecht
<desert...@fishmail.net> wrote:
>
>"Jim Elbrecht" <elbr...@email.com> wrote
>
>> I like the 2 flat ends, and the 'keyhole' nail puller.
>>
>> Jim
>
>I like a pair of old regular Vise Grips. You can clamp on to the nail, and
>the rounded back side of the head is perfect for soft continuous leverage
>(use a piece of plywood or laminate to prevent dimpling of drywall or
>baseboard), and the pull of the pliers is practically straight out.
Good tool for removing nails- but I haven't ever had much luck *not*
doing damage with Vise Grips. [I capitalize it too- as they are one of
a few tools that it *really* pays to get the original.]
Jim
benick
"willshak" <will...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:YdedncFnVMFAYqnW...@supernews.com...
As many times I've done it I've never been able to do it without some sorta
mishap to the wall or trim..LOL...To damn impatient I guess.....Good
luck....
One thing I gotta ask though.....The OP said...
" I'm just going to hide a 14 AWG ground wire behind it and nail it back
on..."
Is that a good idea ? Code ???..What's to prevent a nail through the wire by
you or somebody else down the road thus making all this a waste of time ???
Just curious...
Red Green
Jay-T
news:F92dnQ7oUtkt_6jW...@neonova.net...
I think the OP is talking about a separate ground wire only -- no hot and no
neutral. My guess is that a nail in a ground wire won't be a problem except
if it breaks the wire and causes the grounding function to no longer be
present.
Nate Nagel
yes, this is to provide a ground in a house which was originally wired
with 2-conductor Romex. As things are rewired this will eventually go away.
benick
"Nate Nagel" <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in message
news:hh3td...@news2.newsguy.com...
Thanks for the explaination....I don't know much about wiring so I follow
theses threads closely...Though it is hard to tell who is full of BS and and
who isn't sometimes...LOL...
willshak
It's a ground wire (not a hot or neutral wire), or so he says, no
problem unless he drives a nail into it and then into a hot wire.
Nate Nagel
Wow, all these replies! Well, I went to the Orange Colored Store this
AM and picked up a couple different varieties of prying technology, what
ended up working was something like described above, with a 3" paint
scraper behind it to protect the paneling.
Unfortunately I seem to have come to another "gotcha." I just ASSumed
that the top part of my baseboard molding would have a little dead space
behind it, like a typical inside corner molding
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=2798-1487-999%208PINE&lpage=none
however, it does NOT. Now the one piece of molding that I have about
half removed has a corner missing from the one-by that makes up the main
part of the baseboard. but I can't count on this being the case
everywhere that I need to run grounds. If I had a table saw I would be
tempted to rig it up and zing the hidden part of the molding off at a 45
degree angle to provide the space that I need, but I don't. Do you
think I should just get a small block plane and have at it? Another
approach to running ground wires? I'd originally thought to drop them
down through the walls from the attic by drilling holes in the sill
plates of the walls, but previous experience fishing wires in this house
leads me to expect lots of firestops.
It doesn't help that I have at least three different types of wall
construction that I need to deal with - wood paneling over framing
(interior walls added in previous renovation) plaster over framing
(original walls) and finally plaster over masonry (exterior wall against
chimney)
ideas appreciated, although I'm tempted to continue with my original
approach and just shave the corner off the baseboard molding.
(y'know, it would have saved me a lot of trouble if whoever had split
the one big room into two little ones and a hallway had done the wiring
*right,* but hey, where's the challenge in that?)
benick
Sounds like you will have to remove the entire baseboard and all that
entails especially on the old plaster walls...Expect some patching...Aren't
old homes fun ??? LOL...Good luck....You should have seen what we went
through in my dads old colonial NIGHTMARE.....But we laugh about it
now....LOL...
Not@home
Nate Nagel wrote:
> I'm still trying to put all my electrical stuff to rights... part of
> that process is providing a few auxiliary grounds upstairs so that the
> previous renovation work that was wired with grounded Romex will in fact
> be properly grounded. I need to peel back some baseboard to do this.
> Unfortunately, one wall is thin wood paneling, not plaster. I started by
> trying to pull the baseboard there, as that's where I need to run the
> first wire. Apparently the baseboard is held on by nails that are
> stronger than your average finishing nail. I cut through the paint and
> managed to separate the top of the baseboard from the wall with a thick
> putty knife; that's where I'm stuck. The putty knife is not strong
> enough to pry it free; I haven't pulled it away from the wall far enough
> to try a pry bar, and a screwdriver mars the paneling. Any ideas? Should
> I just keep doing what I'm doing, then cut the nails with a hacksaw
> blade, or is there a tool that I ought to have that'd work for this? Am
> thinking maybe run to FLAPS and buy a gasket scraper?
>
> In case it matters, this is a three piece baseboard - main baseboard is
> a 1x4 with a piece of molding on top and a quarter round at the floor. I
> really only want to get the top piece off as I'm just going to hide a 14
> AWG ground wire behind it and nail it back on.
>
> nate
>
Find a piece of thin strong metal and put it on the paneling to protect
it and spread the pressure over a larger area. (The metal in a putty
knife is about the thickness and strength you want. Then us whatever
you have (the screwdriver will work) to pry the molding out enough that
you can get the claw on a claw hammer under it, and use that to pull off
the molding.
I like to keep the nails in the molding and just use them and the old
holes to reinstall it (use a small piece of hardwood over the molding
and pound that, rather than the molding, to preserve the molding); I'm
frugal, and I don't like making and fixing extra holes, too.
Doing each nail halfway at a time, then redoing them takes a little
longer, but will reduce the risk of breaking the molding. Take care to
see how the corners are done. In most situations each leg is cut at 45
degrees, but in better construction one piece is cut square and the
other shaped to fit over it; in that case, you would want to remove the
shaped piece first.
Twayne
Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> typed:
Nate, First:
How about considering SURFACE MOUNT wiring products that might, if
conditions were right, allow you to run new, 3-wire wiring to all of the
ungrounded circuits. They don't look bad, are mostly hidden by furniture,
and can go wherever there is a place to mount them. That would sure be
faster and easier than the jerry-rig of pulling all the baseboards. You can
even add outlets along the way as you run the surface mount wiring. It's
simple, easy to use, and made for such purposes as you seem to have. They
come in pre-wired sections you just connect together, cuttable for different
lengths, and usually made of hard plastic or aluminum so most any saw can
cut them. They have a counterpart for about anything a conduit fitting can
do, including sharp, 90 degree turns since they're molded & prewired. WATCH
THE AMPERAGES CAPABILITIES. It must be equal to or greater than the outlet,
etc. ratings. I don't recall seeing it for more than 20A services. It
costs a bit, but so does the blood, sweat, tears and frustrations of your
current approach.
Plus, you could run two easily, right from the breaker/fuse box and
everything would be a LOT closer to code, besides being so much easier.
Otherwise:
I think I understand why you're doing this, but ... are you aware that EACH
circuit from your fuse/breaker box actually should have its OWN earth
ground? It sounds like you are going to run one earth ground wire to any/all
outlets/switches etc.. They should only connect to each other back at the
breaker/fuse box.
What you're doing will work OK under no-fault conditions, but using one
wire for all circuits creates some special conditions for safety and some
headaches for future people working on the wiring. At a minimum, IMO, you
should put a sticker in your power panel indicating which ckts share a
common earth ground so that future electricians, etc. will be forewarned of
the additional work such ckts might require for repairs. It's not as
dangerous as a common neutral, but it can create problems, some related to
safety, especially in the future when work is done for repair or
maintenance.
Although earth grounds should never carry any current, under fault
conditions they -might- carry substantial current, possibly leading to
heating and overheating. If you're running plain TW this might not be a good
thing. It also seems you might be making some splices, etc., under that
baseboard and technically those have to be done in boxes.
If I were you I'd run the wires in the attic or basement, whichever is
closest, going up and down as required. If you're talking single-story here,
the basement is going to be closest to most outlets, of course, and likely
not more than one firestop. If they're not close enough to you for normal
drill bits, get a long jobber's drill for the task.
But I think I'd consider the surface mount idea if it were me.
Good luck,
Twayne
--
--
We've already reached
tomorrow's yesterday
but we're still far away from
yesterday's tomorrow.
Nate Nagel
I'm not enamored of the wiremold option... I think I can do this
without going down that road. This is all on one circuit, and it's the
second floor of a two story house.
On thinking about this more, I think tomorrow I will go up in the attic
and replace the ceiling light box in one of the bedrooms (SWMBO wants a
ceiling fan, and the box isn't installed right to begin with) and see if
I can repull the wire from the first outlet to the ceiling box. If I
can manage that that will solve the actual code violations (wiring done
with grounded cable but not grounded, so there are boxes whose grounds
are interconnected but not connected to earth ground) I was trying to
avoid doing this due to all the insulation up there and lack of attic
floor but it seems like the only way. Then if I still have any ambition
left I will see what I can do about supplemental grounds to the existing
receps that were original to the house. The first box is grounded as it
was fed with BX unlike the rest of the wiring upstairs.
nor...@earthlink.net
>
> ideas appreciated, although I'm tempted to continue with my original
> approach and just shave the corner off the baseboard molding.
>
> (y'know, it would have saved me a lot of trouble if whoever had split
> the one big room into two little ones and a hallway had done the wiring
> *right,* but hey, where's the challenge in that?)
>
> nate
>
from), but the Dremel tile grout remover might work. Any bit that works
on wood plus the little jig for grout removing. I haven't tried it on
wood, and the jig has a little tip that fits into the grout space as a
guide....you can push or pull along a line (one is the approved method
for grout and I don't recall which it was, as I did both). Should be
quick work to run a fine channel in wood; went pretty quickly in grout.
Nate Nagel
hmm, my dad got me a Craftsman thing that looks like a Fein Multimaster
clone for xmas, maybe I'll get an excuse to use it right away? Maybe
channelling plaster might be easier than trying to shave the molding.
If you see my other post, I think I can get away from running around the
baseboard in the one bedroom; the one that I'd still need to do would
involve running it around two walls that are plaster.
Nate Nagel
Update - I just dropped all the light fixtures in the areas of concern
(two small bedrooms and a hallway; used to be one large bedroom)
when I replaced the switches I assumed this was old school switch leg
wiring because there's only one cable in each of the switch boxes, save
for the one in the hallway, which has one 3-wire coming in the top and
one 2-wire leaving the bottom, I ASSume to feed the recep a couple feet
away.
Well, there's only one cable entering each of the three ceiling boxes.
Only way I can think that this could work is if there's multiple
concealed junctions in the attic. (as a bonus all three were apparently
installed by someone who is unable to measure for height appropriately
as they are hanging down below the finished plaster. this was concealed
by large diameter light fixture bases)
Tomorrow will be a fun day. I see (puts hands to head and concentrates)
a lot of rewiring in my near future. Fun stuff!
nate
(@#$%$%^&@# previous "contractors")
nor...@earthlink.net
If it works on grout, it ought to work on plaster, but haven't seen real
plaster in a long time. You would have it embedded in plaster and then
have to patch plaster. Hmm... I don't know the size of the wire you
need to run, and I'm not up on big repair jobs .. just the tinkering
level. When we moved into our condo, my hubby ran the cable for
satellite TV from the satellite in through the patio sliding door, which
always kept the door ajar a little bit. There was a hole in the outside
concrete block wall and a hole inside same place .. I got a length of
stiff plastic tubing to go through both holes, then ran the TV cable
through the tubing and pulled the tubing out from the inside when the
cable was through.
My hubby is a lot stronger than I so when I want to do something
requiring muscle and he isn't around (preferable when I am truly
inspired about a task), I need to engineer it. Usually works.
benick
More likely the neighborhood "handyman" who worked for beer money....LOL...
Red Green
news:hntZm.15906$eH1....@newsfe16.iad:
My thought is that leads to a loose fit or one that will work loose,
have gaps show up later or crack any caulk that was used between the
molding and wall. I've never tried it because of that but I guess it
works for you.
> (use a small piece of hardwood over the molding
> and pound that, rather than the molding, to preserve the molding); I'm
> frugal, and I don't like making and fixing extra holes, too.
>
> Doing each nail halfway at a time, then redoing them takes a little
> longer, but will reduce the risk of breaking the molding. Take care
> to see how the corners are done. In most situations each leg is cut
> at 45 degrees, but in better construction one piece is cut square and
> the other shaped to fit over it;
coped
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hope you put a drip loop on the outside cable where it enters the
exterior wall. Just dress the wire to below the hole and then back up
and thru the wall and caulk to keep water out.
Nate Nagel
yup, sho 'nuff. Crawled up into the attic with a flashlight and a
fistful of plant stakes (to mark the location of the ceiling boxes and
switch leg drops. There's a LOT of insulation up there.) Found the
"original" ceiling box hanging loose but at least covered with a cover
plate. My legs were starting to quiver so I'm going to run to the store
and get myself a miner's headlight and a big long extension cord and get
back at it. And the girl was wondering why I bought a full 250 foot
roll of Romex! hah! Now I'm worried that I might run out before I have
this all put to rights.
To make matters worse, the wiring wasn't even bored through the ceiling
joists but laid on top loose. Come on guys, if you're gonna do it, do
it right. I am not totally cool with inadvertantly stepping on 60 year
old cables that are concealed under a mess of insulation.
I have a plan, but I still need to locate the feed to the master bedroom
so I don't kill that while trying to fix the other side of the house.
Good times.
nate
benick
Unless there is a floor in the attic running them on top is the way it is
done...Bring a small piece of plywood up with you to work on....Makes it
MUCH easier on the legs and feet.....Sounds like you're having fun....BTDT
got the t-shirt....LOL...
blueman
> Right. I've got that tool and it does what it's supposed to do. However, I
> bought mine at HF for $4 instead of the $14.00 that Amazon wants (discounted
> from $27.00).
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43651
I have one of those and also a name brand one.
I must say though that the fit-and-finish on the HF one is not as
nice. The steel is rougher, the cat's paw end is not as sharp for
catching nails with small heads, the pry bar end is not as nicely
tapered, etc...
Still worth $4 but not the same tool
Nate Nagel
Hoo boy... today I started off by hanging a string of construction
lights in my attic (at some point I'd like a keyed lampholder up there
permanently wired, but I can't exactly do that yet) and putting
everything "mission critical" on the 2nd floor on extension cords to an
unused A/C recep. I replaced three ceiling boxes, two of 'em with fan
rated boxes (two small bedrooms) and one I just moved up higher and
added an extension ring (small hallway.) Pulled a new 14/2 romex up
into the attic from the recep that is fed by the breaker box (homerun is
BX so I didn't replace that. That would have been a whole 'nother
project.) Got lucky, just yanked on the old wire and it came up, so I
just tied the new to the old and pulled it through. Got three ceiling
boxes all wired with new romex and drilled through joists rather than
laying it on top. Found TWO concealed junction boxes and cut 'em out.
Heh, did ya see me post asking about box fill calcs? The guy there
before me didn't think of that apparently, I think each of two 1-1/2"
octagon boxes just laying loose had five cables coming into each, all
spliced together inside. Yeah, this *needed* to be done. Had to repull
one switch leg because it was too short to make it to the ceiling box.
Wire nutted everything through and tried it. I got everything right but
I lost a cable somewhere, MBR and bath are still dead. Circuit is
protected by both an AFCI breaker and GFCI at first recep, neither
tripped, so that is a good sign. Had to run out and get an old work box
for the switch I had to repull, I just couldn't fish it through the
knockout so I busted the box out of the wall. Killed the circuit
because obviously I missed something (wouldn't *that* be a fun
conversation with the insurance people?) looks like house was originally
wired hot to all the ceiling boxes, then switch leg and a drop to each
room's receps so I will start tracing cable at the MBR ceiling box tomorrow.
Holy heck I feel like I was working today. This is my VACATION????
If I feel froggy I will repull the other two switch legs and also the
drops to the receps in the two little bedrooms (to get rid of the old
cloth covered shit and provide a proper ground there as well.) First
priority is figuring out where I messed up though so I can cut the power
back on with confidence, and have lights that work...
*whew*
it is nice to see all that nice new grounded Romex and 90C wire in the
ceiling boxes though... and getting rid of those junctions just flopping
around under the insulation is also a Good Thing... oh yeah and the
boxes are now flush with the ceiling like they should be...
Did I mention that that my attic floor has two layers of fiberglass
covered by another big ol' mess of cellulose insulation? had to shove
all that mess to the side every time I found a box or traced a cable.
Just finding where everything goes is a project in and of itself!
gonna pour me a shot of bourbon and just relax for a bit methinks.
I *hope* if I ever sell this place that someone appreciates all this
crap. I remember my grandpa (RIP) telling me to get a good education so
I could get a good job and wouldn't have to kill my body doing manual
labor. You know what, grandpa? You were right, but the sad thing is, I
do know people that I would trust to do this work right (matter of fact
one of 'em called me today because he didn't realize I was on vacation,)
and I still can't afford 'em.
I always had respect for the electricians that specialized in retrofits
(there are a couple that I use for subcontract work professionally) but
if anything I just got a little more.
Nate Nagel
> Nate Nagel wrote:
<snip>
Just in case anyone is still following this saga...
Got back at it this AM, found that ceiling box in MBR is NOT fed
directly from one of the ceiling boxes. It is fed by a recep in the
bedroom, which is fed by a recep in the hallway on the other side of the
stairs (cable apparently runs above ceiling of stairs, below sloping
"floor" of closet.) Which is fed by a 14/3 switch leg... which I
*didn't* hook up last night. So that's why my stuff was dead. I didn't
miss anything, I just didn't remember there being two cables in that
receptacle box in the hallway (I ASSumed that that was the only thing
being fed by the 14/3 switch leg.) I didn't hook it up because I
figured that was something that I could do after all the heavy lifting
was done and I was neatening stuff up and rehanging the light fixtures etc.
So all is good. I just repulled the drop to the "new" receps from the
renovation 30 years or so ago and am taking a break before crawling back
up there to run the wire over to the ceiling box and hook it up. Life
is good! (although now that I'm learning more about how this house is
wired, breaking the bathroom off onto its own circuit is going to be,
um, challenging. I need to do that because there's no recep in there
nor is there an exhaust fan, which I've purchased but have yet to
install...)
I know, y'all are just so relieved that I figured it out, aren't you? :)
Jay-T
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Just in case anyone is still following this saga...
>
> Got back at it this AM, found that ceiling box in MBR is NOT fed directly
> from one of the ceiling boxes. It is fed by a recep in the bedroom, which
> is fed by a recep in the hallway on the other side of the stairs (cable
> apparently runs above ceiling of stairs, below sloping "floor" of closet.)
> Which is fed by a 14/3 switch leg... which I *didn't* hook up last night.
> So that's why my stuff was dead. I didn't miss anything, I just didn't
> remember there being two cables in that receptacle box in the hallway (I
> ASSumed that that was the only thing being fed by the 14/3 switch leg.) I
> didn't hook it up because I figured that was something that I could do
> after all the heavy lifting was done and I was neatening stuff up and
> rehanging the light fixtures etc.
>
> So all is good. I just repulled the drop to the "new" receps from the
> renovation 30 years or so ago and am taking a break before crawling back
> up there to run the wire over to the ceiling box and hook it up. Life is
> good! (although now that I'm learning more about how this house is wired,
> breaking the bathroom off onto its own circuit is going to be, um,
> challenging. I need to do that because there's no recep in there nor is
> there an exhaust fan, which I've purchased but have yet to install...)
>
> I know, y'all are just so relieved that I figured it out, aren't you? :)
I'm still following the saga, and I am glad that you figured it out :-).
It's always nice to see other people going through the same struggles and
pleasures that I do when I take on these types of projects. And, I like it
when the OP of a thread actually does follow up as you did -- either by
responding to the replies and/or writing what the final outcome was. I hate
it when people post a question and are never heard from again despite
receiving a lot of replies to their question (which is the opposite of what
you did).
Nate Nagel
Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
The downside is, I am sorely tempted to keep on rolling and keep
rewiring more of the upstairs, and I think I am trying SWMBO's
patience... but even though everything works now and there's not any
code violations left that I'm aware of, I would like to provide grounds
at all the receps so I can get rid of the GFCI, and also get rid of the
original (to the house) wiring that's left in two ceiling boxes, because
of the higher insulation temperature rating of NM-B... although I
believe I've stated before, I am amazed at how well the original wiring
in this house has held up, I used to live in a house that was built
within a year or two of this one and every time I opened a box I'd have
to bring some heat shrink and a lighter with me because the insulation
would just crumble as soon as I flexed the wires. In this house the
insulation is still nice and supple... weird. Not that I'm complaining,
mind you.
Jay-T
>
> Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
>
> The downside is, I am sorely tempted to keep on rolling and keep
> rewiring more of the upstairs, and I think I am trying SWMBO's
> patience... but even though everything works now and there's not any
> code violations left that I'm aware of, I would like to provide
> grounds at all the receps so I can get rid of the GFCI, and also get
> rid of the original (to the house) wiring that's left in two ceiling
> boxes, because of the higher insulation temperature rating of NM-B...
> although I believe I've stated before, I am amazed at how well the
> original wiring in this house has held up, I used to live in a house
> that was built within a year or two of this one and every time I
> opened a box I'd have to bring some heat shrink and a lighter with me
> because the insulation would just crumble as soon as I flexed the
> wires. In this house the insulation is still nice and supple...
> weird. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
>
> nate
I'm the same way when it comes to electrical wiring -- once I get started, I
want to get rid of all of the old stuff completely. I'm just finishing
doing that in one property and I recently finished doing that in another.
One had all knob and tube wiring and the other had whatever the next
generation of wiring was after that (the 2-wire, no ground stuff). Both are
rental properties so I especially wanted them to have all new wiring. Of
course, I haven't done the house where I live yet, which still has mostly
all knob and tube wiring.
By the way, what is the "heat shrink and a lighter" trick? I never heard of
that, but I have run into old brittle wiring once in a while that I would
like to at least be able to do a temporary fix on.
Nate Nagel
Used to be there was a place around here called "Chesapeake Marine
Fasteners" (RIP) that specialized in hardware for boats etc. (go
figure!) They had an excellent selection of Grade 8 and stainless
bolts, screws, nuts, washers, etc. - I spent a lot of money there
because my real hobby is messing around with old cars. Anyway, they'd
also sell 4' lengths of heat shrink in at least red and black. I always
bought my heat shrink there because the little carded packs you get at
the auto parts stores weren't long enough lengths. What I'd do is if I
had to replace a switch or something and the wiring's insulation fell
apart, I'd just cut a piece of heat shrink long enough to cover each
wire all the way back to the cable clamp and shrink it right over top of
the old insulation. For white wires I'd use the black and then tape
over it with a ring of white tape. I have no idea if this is actually
code compliant, but it is WAY neater than trying to tape wires that are
physically inside a box - I can never seem to do it neatly.
I did this a lot in one house that I lived in... the current place is
the first one that I've actually owned, but several places I;ve lived it
seems that I was far more handy than the landlord, so I preferred to do
small repairs myself rather than watch someone either do a complete hack
job and/or spend lots of money to pay someone else to do it.
Red Green
Rumor has it Jo Ann wants to send you a bus ticket :-)
Nate Nagel
Hey, if she can work a fish tape, we can just do both our places! (my
problem is, it's hard to fish a wire through a wall by yourself...)
DIYDon
Been renovating a 100 year old house and salvaging for re-use as much
baseboard and casing as possible. Absolute best tool to use once the nail
head is up 1/16 inch is an end-nipper. Generous rounded face and huge leverage
as you roll the tool and the take a new grip and do it again. Photo link
below is a small one, but a 7 inch handle works for brads up through 16D
common nails. I tried a lot of things before discovering this.
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Nipper-Cutting-Pliers-Jewelry/dp/B00524WTO4
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/removing-baseboard-without-damage-414584-.htm