Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Lead, Oakum and PVC
189 views
Skip to first unread message
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 10:38:14 AM2/17/14
to
I learned something new yesterday.
I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
before continuing the work.
I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
the bite it needs to hold.
I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
before continuing the work.
I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
the bite it needs to hold.
philo
Feb 17, 2014, 10:43:10 AM2/17/14
to
legal to use lead in plumbing anymore.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 17, 2014, 10:53:54 AM2/17/14
to
compliant. I agree it sounds weird, but from what I've seen on
that show, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix.
As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach
would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and
put in a Fernco. Not even sure that's better, because then you have
a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something
leaks, you'll see it.
Dan Espen
Feb 17, 2014, 10:58:51 AM2/17/14
to
I don't think there is any water/lead contact.
--
Dan Espen
philo
Feb 17, 2014, 11:02:14 AM2/17/14
to
On 02/17/2014 09:53 AM, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
>X
>Xw, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix.
Ok, looks like it's legit.
>X
>Xw, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix.
>
> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach
> would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and
> put in a Fernco. Not even sure that's better, because then you have
> a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something
> leaks, you'll see it.
>
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300g-6
> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach
> would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and
> put in a Fernco. Not even sure that's better, because then you have
> a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something
> leaks, you'll see it.
>
Ok, looks like it's legit.
Stormin Mormon
Feb 17, 2014, 11:13:35 AM2/17/14
to
unsafe, to me.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 11:33:20 AM2/17/14
to
"tra...@optonline.net" <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Monday, February 17, 2014 10:43:10 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
>> On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> I learned something new yesterday.
>>
>>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
>>> Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
>>> iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
>>> and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
>>> lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
>>> before continuing the work.
>>
>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>
>> There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even
>> legal to use lead in plumbing anymore.
>
> Given that it was shown on TOH, I bet you're wrong that it's not code
> compliant. I agree it sounds weird, but from what I've seen on
> that show, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix.
BTW...it was TOH as you stated, not ATOH, as I originally stated.
> On Monday, February 17, 2014 10:43:10 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
>> On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> I learned something new yesterday.
>>
>>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
>>> Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
>>> iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
>>> and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
>>> lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
>>> before continuing the work.
>>
>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>
>> There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even
>> legal to use lead in plumbing anymore.
>
> Given that it was shown on TOH, I bet you're wrong that it's not code
> compliant. I agree it sounds weird, but from what I've seen on
> that show, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix.
>
> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach
> would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and
> put in a Fernco.
the stone foundation up about 3' from the floor. Either way, it would have
been a major PITA to get to use a Fernco in this situation.
> Not even sure that's better, because then you have
> a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something
> leaks, you'll see it.
was because it hung down from the ceiling in a an area of the basement that
they are finishing. All of the new pipes will be hidden behind finished
walls.
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 11:33:21 AM2/17/14
to
Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/2014 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I learned something new yesterday.
>>
>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
>> Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
>> iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
>> and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
>> lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
>> before continuing the work.
>>
>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>
> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
How would it not?
> On 2/17/2014 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I learned something new yesterday.
>>
>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this
>> Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast
>> iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead
>> and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the
>> lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool
>> before continuing the work.
>>
>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>
> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
> Sounds unsafe, to me.
Why?
Stormin Mormon
Feb 17, 2014, 11:48:29 AM2/17/14
to
On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>>
>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>
> How would it not?
>
>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>
> Why?
If the oakum were set up as a dam.
>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>>
>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>
> How would it not?
>
>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>
> Why?
Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
HerHusband
Feb 17, 2014, 12:00:19 PM2/17/14
to
>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe.
>> On ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe
>> to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation.
>> They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting,
>> stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had
>> to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing
>> the work.
>> They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting,
>> stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had
>> to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing
>> the work.
> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the
> outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it
> all out and put in a Fernco.
Code or not, I doubt many people have lead and oakum available these days,
> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the
> outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it
> all out and put in a Fernco.
or the skill to use them. I know I wouldn't attempt something like that.
On TOH it looked like there was probably an inch of pipe behind the hub
that was still sticking out of the concrete. If I was in that same
situation, I would use a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut
off the hub. Then I would drill and/or chisel the concrete back enough that
I could use a commonly available Fernco coupling on the iron pipe.
Of course, if you want the easy way of handling it, you could use a Fernco
donut:
http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/donuts-o-rings/donuts
There's usually more than one way to get a job done...
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
Ed Pawlowski
Feb 17, 2014, 12:46:21 PM2/17/14
to
On 2/17/2014 10:43 AM, philo wrote:
>
> There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even
> legal to use lead in plumbing anymore.
No lead for the supply side, OK for the drains.
>
> There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even
> legal to use lead in plumbing anymore.
Message has been deleted
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 1:59:36 PM2/17/14
to
HerHusband <unk...@unknown.com> wrote:
>>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe.
>>> On ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe
>>> to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation.
>>> They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting,
>>> stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had
>>> to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing
>>> the work.
>
>> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
>> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the
>> outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it
>> all out and put in a Fernco.
>
> Code or not, I doubt many people have lead and oakum available these days,
> or the skill to use them. I know I wouldn't attempt something like that.
>
> On TOH it looked like there was probably an inch of pipe behind the hub
> that was still sticking out of the concrete. If I was in that same
> situation, I would use a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut
> off the hub. Then I would drill and/or chisel the concrete back enough that
> I could use a commonly available Fernco coupling on the iron pipe.
>
Watch the video here, starting around 19:30
>>> I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe.
>>> On ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe
>>> to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation.
>>> They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting,
>>> stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had
>>> to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing
>>> the work.
>
>> As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow,
>> whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the
>> outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it
>> all out and put in a Fernco.
>
> Code or not, I doubt many people have lead and oakum available these days,
> or the skill to use them. I know I wouldn't attempt something like that.
>
> On TOH it looked like there was probably an inch of pipe behind the hub
> that was still sticking out of the concrete. If I was in that same
> situation, I would use a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut
> off the hub. Then I would drill and/or chisel the concrete back enough that
> I could use a commonly available Fernco coupling on the iron pipe.
>
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/video/0,,20782908,00.html
There is no straight pipe exposed to attach a Fernco to. In addition (no
pun intended) it's a rubble stone foundation. I doubt you could easily
chisel the rock out to expose enough pipe for a Fernco.
> Of course, if you want the easy way of handling it, you could use a Fernco
> donut:
>
> http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/donuts-o-rings/donuts
"base" was the slab itself with a hole cut in it. A kitchen sink strainer
was then dropped in the hole to prevent stuff from falling in. I jack
hammered the floor, removed the cast iron back to the wye and use a Fernco
donut to accept the PVC.
However, i don't know if Fernco makes a donut that is not also a reducer.
You will note they lead in what appears to be a 4" pipe to keep the size
consistent with the cast iron. I don't think you'd want to reduce the main
drain down to anything less than 4". I don't know if you are even allowed
to.
If Fernco makes a donut for that connection, I agree that that would work
also.
>
> There's usually more than one way to get a job done...
>
> Anthony Watson
> www.watsondiy.com
> www.mountainsoftware.com
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 4:21:06 PM2/17/14
to
Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>>>
>>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>>
>> How would it not?
>>
>>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>>
>> Why?
>
> If the oakum were set up as a dam.
> Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
> On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>>>>
>>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>>
>> How would it not?
>>
>>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>>
>> Why?
>
> If the oakum were set up as a dam.
> Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
seal.
The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
tra...@optonline.net
Feb 17, 2014, 5:23:23 PM2/17/14
to
On Monday, February 17, 2014 4:21:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> >> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>
> >>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>
> >>
>
> >> How would it not?
>
> >>
>
> >>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>
> >>
>
> >> Why?
>
> >
>
> > If the oakum were set up as a dam.
>
> > Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
>
>
>
>
>
> That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>
> something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>
> seal.
>
>
>
> The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
Certainly an interesting video. I wouldn't think lead would
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> >> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead
>
> >>>> the bite it needs to hold.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>> Did the molten lead touch the plastic?
>
> >>
>
> >> How would it not?
>
> >>
>
> >>> Sounds unsafe, to me.
>
> >>
>
> >> Why?
>
> >
>
> > If the oakum were set up as a dam.
>
> > Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire.
>
>
>
>
>
> That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>
> something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>
> seal.
>
>
>
> The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
set the PVC on fire, but I would have thought it might melt
it enough to damage it. But it obviously works.
DerbyDad03
Feb 17, 2014, 7:24:14 PM2/17/14
to
I'm sure that if you could see the PVC under the lead the exterior of the
PVC would be "damaged". However, even if it damaged the interior surface a
little by making it wavy, it would probably still be smoother than cast
iron junctions, cast-to-PVC with a Fernco, etc.
The hint was that they had to wait a half hour before they could work with
the PVC fitting. I'm guessing it was pretty soft for quite a while.
Bill Gill
Feb 18, 2014, 9:07:28 AM2/18/14
to
blow out the pipe, even if it does lose a little strength.
Bill
HerHusband
Feb 18, 2014, 9:02:15 PM2/18/14
to
> Watch the video here, starting around 19:30
> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/video/0,,20782908,00.html
> There is no straight pipe exposed to attach a Fernco to. In addition
> (no pun intended) it's a rubble stone foundation. I doubt you could
> easily chisel the rock out to expose enough pipe for a Fernco.
It's hard to tell from the video, but it still looks like there's a little
> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/video/0,,20782908,00.html
> There is no straight pipe exposed to attach a Fernco to. In addition
> (no pun intended) it's a rubble stone foundation. I doubt you could
> easily chisel the rock out to expose enough pipe for a Fernco.
bit of pipe between the hub and wall. I didn't realize it was a stone
foundation, but that probably means there's just mortar around the pipe
which would be a lot easier to chisel out than concrete.
> I don't know if Fernco makes a donut that is not also a reducer.
I don't know either, I have never needed to use one. All of the work I have
done these days uses three inch PVC anyway, which slips inside 4" cast iron
easily.
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
Caulki...@work.com
Feb 18, 2014, 9:34:03 PM2/18/14
to
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>seal.
>
>The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
Bullshit, molten lead is VERY HOT.
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>seal.
>
>The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
Im sure the melting temp for lead in online, but I dont have time to
look.
Yea, lead is legal to use on drains.
They make a compound that comes in a can for this. Insert fitting, add
oakum, put in this compound with a putty knife, and let it harden.
(I've done this many times)
OR
Use a short piece of cast iron pipe, lead it into the fitting, and use a
fernco coupling.
(I've done this a couple times).
I would not even consider using lead on PVC. Even if it dont start on
fire, the smell must be terrible.
Caulki...@work.com
Feb 18, 2014, 10:02:24 PM2/18/14
to
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:24:14 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>Nit pickin', but I'm sure it does damage the PVC.
I looked it up. Lead melts at 327.5 蚓 (621.5 蚌).
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>Nit pickin', but I'm sure it does damage the PVC.
DerbyDad03
Feb 18, 2014, 10:45:20 PM2/18/14
to
Good for you. Now go look up the ignition temperature of PVC.
Let me know if you still claim BS about the lead setting the PVC on fire.
We'll wait.
DerbyDad03
Feb 18, 2014, 10:45:21 PM2/18/14
to
<Caulki...@work.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>> something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>> seal.
>>
>> The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
>
> Bullshit, molten lead is VERY HOT.
Who said it wasn't very hot?
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead
>> something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't
>> seal.
>>
>> The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire.
>
> Bullshit, molten lead is VERY HOT.
However, your BS claim just doesn't work. Watch the video. Nothing caught
on fire.
Ed Pawlowski
Feb 18, 2014, 10:57:45 PM2/18/14
to
lead would cool down quickly.
0 new messages