Determining "system" voltage for lighted doorbell button

[Victor Levy]

I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted
one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if my
system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store say
they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a voltmeter
across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)

Many thanks for any response,

Victor Levy
South Bend, Indiana, USA
Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address

[rm]

is there more than one doorbell button that rings the bell?? if so,
connect the meter and have somebody push the other button.

if not, you need to find the transformer for the doorbell...either
it's at the bell itself, or it's bolted to a basement rafter somewhere

[Victor Levy]

rm, thanks for your response.

> is there more than one doorbell button that rings the bell?? if so,

There is no other doorbell button.

> if not, you need to find the transformer for the doorbell...either
> it's at the bell itself, or it's bolted to a basement rafter somewhere

But even if I find the transformer and measure the voltage there, doesn't
the bulb in the button need a certain voltage across it to light up? I
cleaned up the wires before measuring with some fine sandpaper.

Victor Levy
South Bend, Indiana, USA
Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address

rm <.@.com> wrote in message news:37a5bb13.2408707@philproxy...

[Robert Hancock]

I can't understand why there's no voltage across the wires, assuming the
button isn't pressed, but I guess if it's working.. You can find the
transformer and measure the voltage there, it may be marked on it.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr

Victor Levy <Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net> wrote in message
news:h6ip3.842$K22....@news.corecomm.net...

[John Coggins]

A transformer voltage less than 10 or greater than 16 would be a potential
problem. But you have to find it and read the label or measure the output to
know for sure.

Victor Levy wrote in message ...

>rm, thanks for your response.
>
>> is there more than one doorbell button that rings the bell?? if so,
>
> There is no other doorbell button.
>
>> if not, you need to find the transformer for the doorbell...either
>> it's at the bell itself, or it's bolted to a basement rafter somewhere
>
>But even if I find the transformer and measure the voltage there, doesn't
>the bulb in the button need a certain voltage across it to light up? I
>cleaned up the wires before measuring with some fine sandpaper.
>

>Victor Levy
>South Bend, Indiana, USA
>Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address
>

>rm <.@.com> wrote in message news:37a5bb13.2408707@philproxy...
>> is there more than one doorbell button that rings the bell?? if so,
>> connect the meter and have somebody push the other button.
>>
>> if not, you need to find the transformer for the doorbell...either
>> it's at the bell itself, or it's bolted to a basement rafter somewhere
>>
>> "Victor Levy" <Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net> wrote:
>>

[Benoit Evans]

>> > The lighted buttons in the home store say
>> >they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
>> >voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a
>> >voltmeter across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)

Are you sure you can measure it that way? The button switch simply breaks
one side of the circuit until pushed. Why don't you measure the voltate
across the two wires that connect to the bell itself. Disconnect them from
the bell and connect the voltmeter to them. Have someone push the button
and then read the result. That should be the voltage provided by the
transformer to the bell. If it is between 10 and 16, you are in business.

I think bell transformers have been in that range for many, many years.
You might even find a label on the bell that indicates it's voltage
rating. The transformer can be just about anywhere. In recent
construction, they are often attached to (or near) the main electrical
panel.

BE

[Mark Lloyd]

In my house (built about 1967) the doorbell transformer is in the A/C closet
and is accessible.

Benoit Evans <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:kevans-0208...@modemcable200.15-200-24.que.mc.videotron.net...

[Robert Hancock]

It should always be accessible, if not it's a code violation.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr

Mark Lloyd <MLloy...@godatt.net> wrote in message
news:7o5mue$1l$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...

[bhappy]

Too much work spent for an item that is under $10 at home depot.(thats for a
nice brass plated one)
... buy it, try it, if it doesn't work, return it.
It probably will work just fine......

Victor Levy wrote:

> I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted
> one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if my

> system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store say

> they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
> voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a voltmeter
> across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)
>

[Victor Levy]

> ... buy it, try it, if it doesn't work, return it.

bhappy, that's a good idea. I'll try it and let everybody know.

Victor Levy
South Bend, Indiana, USA
Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address

bhappy <bha...@ibm.net> wrote in message news:37A6E95C...@ibm.net...

[must...@my-deja.com]

> I can't understand why there's no voltage across the wires, assuming
the
> button isn't pressed, but I guess if it's working.. You can find the
> transformer and measure the voltage there, it may be marked on it.
>

Why would there be a voltage on a switch loop? If there was, pressing
the button would be a dead short, and the wires would disintegrate or
trip a breaker. There will be voltage between ground and one of the
wires.

Bob

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[must...@my-deja.com]

Victor,

After reading all the guess replies, I thought I'd help you
out. You must ground the voltmeter and then probe both of
the wires. One of them will show a voltage.

If I'm not mistaken, the lighted pushbuttons also require
a ground. If not, then I have no idea how they work.

Bob

In article <h6ip3.842$K22....@news.corecomm.net>,

"Victor Levy" <Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net> wrote:
> I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new
lighted
> one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if
my
> system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store
say
> they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
> voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a
voltmeter
> across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)
>
> Many thanks for any response,
>
> Victor Levy
> South Bend, Indiana, USA
> Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address
>
>

[Mark Lloyd]

I think the light of a lighted button is powered by the voltage across the
button contacts when it is not pressed. This should be the transformer
voltage, and will drop some when the light is on because of the resistance
of the doorbell unit.

<must...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7o713h$k46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Sylvan Butler]

must...@my-deja.com on Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:11:49 GMT wrote:
>> I can't understand why there's no voltage across the wires, assuming
>the
>> button isn't pressed, but I guess if it's working.. You can find the

>Why would there be a voltage on a switch loop? If there was, pressing

There is ALWAYS voltage on a switch loop. Especially with something
like an incandescent light bulb or a doorbell as a load.

>the button would be a dead short, and the wires would disintegrate or

Nonsense.

>trip a breaker. There will be voltage between ground and one of the

Huh? Probably, but most doorbell systems are NOT ground referenced.

sdb
--
Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Watch out for munged e-mail address.
User should be sylvan and host is cyberhighway.net.

[Sylvan Butler]

must...@my-deja.com on Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:16:14 GMT wrote:
>out. You must ground the voltmeter and then probe both of
>the wires. One of them will show a voltage.

Wrong.

>If I'm not mistaken, the lighted pushbuttons also require
>a ground. If not, then I have no idea how they work.

You are mistaken. They work just like lighted lightswitches, and go
dark when pushed. They run a minute current thru the load.

[lda...@*no_spam*roanoke.infi.net]

I see no need to look for the transformer. Just look at the doorbelll itself.
It should certainly tell you what voltage it requires to work.

Or put your voltmeter across the doorbell terminals and have somebody push the
button.

Quoth "Victor Levy" <Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net> :

>I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted
>one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if my
>system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store say
>they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
>voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a voltmeter
>across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)
>
>Many thanks for any response,
>
>Victor Levy
>South Bend, Indiana, USA
>Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address
>
>
>
>
>
>

To reply by email, remove the *NO_SPAM* from my email address.

[JimS]

When you measure the 0.03 volts across the un-pushed doorbell button,
is your voltmeter set for AC or for DC? Believe it should be set for
AC.

HTH

[Victor Levy]

JimS,

> When you measure the 0.03 volts across the un-pushed doorbell button,
> is your voltmeter set for AC or for DC? Believe it should be set for
> AC.

My voltmeter was set to DC. When I measure with it set to AC it reads 20V.
I guess this answers the original question, and no, my system is not a
10-16V one.

Thanks so much for your help, and to everybody else who responded.

Victor Levy
South Bend, Indiana, USA
Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address

JimS <Ji...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:37A895...@noaddress.com...

[JimS]

Does it say "20 Volts" on your doorbell unit? Those doorbell
transformers
are very cheaply made and might measure 20 volts AC when unloaded. Best
to check the rating of the doorbell unit itself. In doing that you are
assuming that the installer used the right transformer for your
doorbell-
not always a correct assumption. With only the load of a doorbell
button lamp the voltage may drop down to a value closer to 16 volts.
The transformer might be found inside the circuit breaker box (have to
pull the cover to check--be careful as 220 V AC would be exposed!)
otherwise "good luck" if you ever have to locate the transformer.

HTH

[Victor Levy]

JimS,

I didn't see a voltage rating on my doorbell unit, but I found the
transformer in my basement. Both the doorbell unit and the transformer say
NUTONE, INC., so I'll bet they're a matched pair. The transformer has two
terminals: a red wire comes out of a terminal labeled '10VA', and a white
wire comes out of the other terminal, labeled '16V' (not '16VA'). I see
these wires coming into the chime unit.

Here are the voltage readings at transformer, with the voltmeter set on AC
voltage:

Between terminals: 20V
'10VA' to ground: 30V
'16V' to ground: 16V

Vic

JimS <Ji...@noaddress.com> wrote in message

news:37A9A2...@noaddress.com...

[Mark Lloyd]

20VAC across the doorbell is about right when there is no load on the
transformer. Connecting a light will lower it.

Victor Levy <Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net> wrote in message

news:i2gq3.42$522....@news.corecomm.net...

[JimS]

Nutone was a great company to deal with many years ago (and they still
may be). You could email or call them with your question.

http://www.nutone.com/

They make some lighted pushbuttons:
http://www.nutone.com/clump/clump18.html

Sure sounds like you are home free with your lighted 16 volt pushbutton.
I had trouble with a lighted pushbutton on my electronic (not Nutone)
door chime. Hopefully your chimes are mechanical.

Pretty sure the 16V refers to 16 volts and the 10VA is telling you the
power capabilites of the transformer. 16 Volts times "X" Amps equals
10VA (VoltAmps). Solving for "X" gives .625 Amps.

Believe your readings to ground are caused by stray capacitive
coupling of the 16 volt winding of the transformer.

Here's some URL's:
http://valleye.speed1.net/start/doorbell.htm
http://www.allabouthome.com/tips/electrical/doorbells.html

Victor Levy wrote:
>
> JimS,
>
> I didn't see a voltage rating on my doorbell unit, but I found the
> transformer in my basement. Both the doorbell unit and the transformer say
> NUTONE, INC., so I'll bet they're a matched pair. The transformer has two
> terminals: a red wire comes out of a terminal labeled '10VA', and a white
> wire comes out of the other terminal, labeled '16V' (not '16VA'). I see
> these wires coming into the chime unit.
>
> Here are the voltage readings at transformer, with the voltmeter set on AC
> voltage:
>
> Between terminals: 20V
> '10VA' to ground: 30V
> '16V' to ground: 16V
>
> Vic
>

> JimS <Ji...@noaddress.com> wrote in message

[John Coggins]

JimS wrote in message <37AAC2...@noaddress.com>...

>Sure sounds like you are home free with your lighted 16 volt pushbutton.

Ditto.

>Pretty sure the 16V refers to 16 volts and the 10VA is telling you the
>power capabilites of the transformer.

Ditto.

[goi...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 2, 1999 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Victor Levy wrote:
> I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted
> one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if my
> system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store say
> they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
> voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a voltmeter
> across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)
>
> Many thanks for any response,
>
> Victor Levy
> South Bend, Indiana, USA
> Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address

As the lead electronic PCB designer of the recently introduced line of LED illuminated doorbell door chimes and lighted "touch" doorbell buttons for Craftmade International's Teiber Lighting division, I agree with everyone's assessments that your doorbell transformer is indeed a 16VAC transformer. Readings will show in excess of 16V (like 20V) when not under a load (chime coil or lighted push-button in the circuit) and read with a common low-range AC voltmeter. Therefore, any standard (Lowe's or Home Depot) lighted doorbell button or chime will work very well with your present transformer. Before you run out and buy a new piece of "ordinary" lighted doorbell hardware, you might want to take a look at these new for 2014, designer-inspired LED lighted door chimes and LED "touch" doorbell buttons at http://www.illuminated-doorbell.com. The super-bright LEDs will last for decades. Enjoy! Don Ladanyi

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/27/2014 11:49 PM, goi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 2, 1999 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Victor Levy wrote:
>> I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted

Died in 2006, and estate was sold.


--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[gregz]

<goi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, August 2, 1999 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Victor Levy wrote:
>> I'd like to replace our lousy old doorbell button with a nice new lighted

>> one, but before I drill a 5/16" hole in my door jamb I want to know if my
>> system will light the button. The lighted buttons in the home store say
>> they work in 10- to 16-volt doorbell systems. How do I determine the
>> voltage of my doorbell system? (With the system on and working, a voltmeter
>> across the doorbell button wires reads 0.03V.)
>>
>> Many thanks for any response,
>>
>> Victor Levy
>> South Bend, Indiana, USA
>> Avl...@CmegDsinetE.net <- Remove capital letters for correct address
>

> As the lead electronic PCB designer of the newly introduced line of LED
> illuminated doorbell door chimes and lighted "touch" buttons for

> Craftmade International's Teiber Lighting division, I agree with
> everyone's assessments that your doorbell transformer is indeed a 16VAC

> transformer that will show in excess of 16V (like 20V) when unloaded and
> read with an AC voltmeter. Therefore, any standard (Lowe's or Home Depot)
> lighted doobell button or chime will work with very well your present
> transformer. Before you run out and buy a new piece of doorbell hardware,
> you might want to take a look at these new, innovative designer-inspired

> LED lighted door chimes and LED "touch" doorbell buttons at

> http://www.illuminated-doobell.com. Enjoy! Don Ladanyi

The doobel link is foiled.

Those are some complicated switches.

Engineer should Learn usenet.

http://www.illuminated-doorbell.com/touch-button-internal-construction.html

Greg

[jandywh...@gmail.com]

The voltage across the doorbell button might be AC. The DC measurement of an AC voltage is very small. Use a volt meter which autimatcly detects DC or AC like a T5-1000.

[Uncle Monster]

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 12:23:28 PM UTC-5, jandywh...@gmail.com wrote:
> The voltage across the doorbell button might be AC. The DC measurement of an AC voltage is very small. Use a volt meter which autimatcly detects DC or AC like a T5-1000.

The fellow wanting information died 10 years ago. The home was demolished 2 years ago. The house was damaged when a group of squatters partied like it was 1999. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Monster

[Stormin Mormon]

Oh, yeah! I remember this thread from 2004.

BTW, use AC scale on volt meter, reads AC or DC.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Sure won't read DC voltages anywhere close to accurately on AC scale.
A 1.5 volt "D" cell reads 1.47 DC and 2.4 on the AC scale.

[Uncle Monster]

That's because the sine wave is stuck. You must whack the battery sharply against a hard surface to get the sine wave unstuck. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Alternating Monster