Easiest way to enlarge an electrical knockout?

[HerHusband]

I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical knockouts
are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit to accomodate
the size of my power cable.

My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those things
are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task like this. I'm
also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an existing hole?

Another option is a step-drill, but those are almost as expensive at the
home centers. I'm also a little worried about metal shavings falling inside
the heater, or overshooting the size I need and making the hole too big.

I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if anyone rents the knockout
punches?

Thanks,

Anthony

[Dean Hoffman]

You might find a set of used KO punches on Ebay for a decent
price. I knew a guy years ago who used a hole saw. Metal shavings
weren't a problem for his work. It wasn't a super neat job either. The
saw would wander a bit if I recall correctly.

[The Daring Dufas]

Use a Sharpie marker to mark the diameter of your 3/4" hole around your
1/2" KO. If you have an automatic center punch, use it to pop little
pits around the hole a bit more than 1/8" apart. Use your drill with a
1/8" bit and drill through wherever you have the small pits which keep
the drill bit from sliding away from where you want to drill through.
You can do it without an automatic center punch if you put moderate
pressure on the drill and start very slowly until you're sure the bit
won't slide. After you've drilled all your closely spaced holes, you can
go up another bit size to remove more metal. You can use diagonal wire
cutters and pliers to cut out and break off the little tags of metal
left around the circumference. You can finish up with a round or half
round file if you want to make it prettier. An automatic center punch
and half round file can be purchased from Harbor Freight for very little
money. It may cost more at Lowe's Depot but you will be surprised at all
the uses you will find for an automatic center punch. ^_^

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=automatic+center+punch

http://preview.tinyurl.com/qc64pap

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-half-round-file-96629.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ornsdm3

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-round-file-96628.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/njeasyd

Harbor Freight also sells step drill bits.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drill-bits-69088.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/q5spon9

TDD

[Oren]

Fist make sure power is off, which sounds like it is, BUT....

Use a cheap bi--metal hole saw. Place a thin piece of wood over the
1/2" hole - cut through with the 3/4" bi-metal hole saw. The wood will
help to prevent the hole saw from walking by the drill bit in the
center.

<http://owenbarrow.org/wp-admin/network/metal-hole-saw-bit-6617.jpg>

YMMV

[Bob_Villa]

http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-91201.html

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Find an old radio hobbyist or an electrician with a chassis punch and
buy him a beer.

[Oren]

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:19:44 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>Find an old radio hobbyist or an electrician with a chassis punch and
>buy him a beer.

Will a 3/4" punch fit behind the 1/2" knockout on a water heater
enclosure? Seems you need access from both sides for it to work, like
say, in an electrical panel.

<http://zenstoves.net/Supplies/KnockoutPunch.jpg>

[The Daring Dufas]

I have a set of KO punches and a few large ones of the most common
sizes. I also have step bits and hole saws but when they're not
available or before I obtained them, I had to drill a circle of small
holes then remove the excess metal. ^_^

TDD

[Oren]

Just though about my RotoZip Kit, with spiral bits. It would make easy
work to enlarge the hole.

[bud--]

On 2/21/2014 7:46 PM, HerHusband wrote:

If you are near a big city I think it is real likely you can rent them.

[HerHusband]

> http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-91201.html

I also found that set with a little searching, but the reviews aren't very
promising. For nearly the same money, I can buy a genuine Greenlee punch on
Ebay.

Anthony

[HerHusband]

Oren,

> Will a 3/4" punch fit behind the 1/2" knockout on a water heater
> enclosure? Seems you need access from both sides for it to work, like
> say, in an electrical panel.

I have a Fahrenheat FUH54 space heater, not a water heater. I have full
access to both sides of the opening.

I just wonder how well a punch will work only having an extra 1/8" on each
side of the existing opening.

Anthony

[HerHusband]

> Just though about my RotoZip Kit, with spiral bits. It would make easy
> work to enlarge the hole.

I don't have a RotoZip, but I thought about using my handheld metal
nibbler. I just don't know if it could handle the thickness of the sheet
metal.

Anthony

[The Daring Dufas]

On 2/21/2014 9:13 PM, Bob_Villa wrote:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-91201.html
>
I don't think I ever paid attention to whether or not HF had KO punches
since I've had my Greenlee set for more than 30 years. D'oh! o_O

http://www.richmolnar.com/Sounds/Homer%20-%20D%27oh!%20%282%29.wav

TDD

[Caulki...@work.com]

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 01:46:34 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
<unk...@unknown.com> wrote:

They do sell conduit fittings that slip over 3/4" conduit, yet the end
that goes in the box is 1/2". I'd try one of them first. You'll
probably have to go to an electrical supply store, unless you have a
large hardware store nearby, like an ACE Hardware super store. While
you probably do need 3/4" conduit for thicker wires, there is a good
chance they will slip thru that last half inch where that fitting is.
I've used them, and they work well.

Your other option is slow, but a round file will do the trick, and you
probably got one of them. I've used that method on the old
electronics, like the old tube type tv set chassis. Back in my
younger days, I built or repaired that stuff, and I had to make holes
for tube sockets, or other parts, which were often an oddball size.
Those old chassis were probably the same or thicker metal. It takes
awhile, but it works.

[The Daring Dufas]

I have a Rotozip kit too,(somewhere) that I used on walls to make cut
outs for outlets, access panels and in PVC pipe for stuff I'd build.
I don't remember if I had a metal cutting bit with mine. The problem
with Rotozip is clearance unless there is a right angle attachment like
I have for my Dremmel tool and drill. Dremmel is another handy tool for
removing metal to make things fit. My round and half round files were
always in my tool belt when I was working as an electrician or doing any
of the contracting jobs I did. I could enlarge a KO using only my files
quicker than having to walk to the truck and back to retrieve a KO punch
set. Another trick I came up with was using my KO punch turned around
backwards to press the KO rings back into place if one came loose that
was a size too big. Often when removing a KO the next size may become
partially dislodged and can be pressed back into place by using a KO
punch backwards so the flat surfaces can push the dislodged metal back
into place. Of course if it comes out completely, KO washers must be
used. Dang, I've forgotten more improvisations I came up with over the
years than I can recall until I'm actually back on a job. o_O

TDD

[bud--]

If you have a good rental place it should have KO punches.

Change the wiring method to something with a 1/2" connector?

[bob haller]

will the box be overfilled? might be easier and more code compliant to just replace the box

[Damning Dumass - Welfare TeaBillie]

On 02/21/2014 08:46 PM, HerHusband wrote:
> I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical knockouts
> are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit to accomodate
> the size of my power cable.
>
> My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those things
> are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task like this. I'm
> also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an existing hole?
>

Yes, the easiest way is a knockout punch.
You, however, seem to be looking for the cheapest way. That would be a round file.

[philo]

On 02/22/2014 08:15 AM, bob haller wrote:
> will the box be overfilled? might be easier and more code compliant to just replace the box
>

YEP, this is exactly what to do.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The cover on the water heater enclosure is removeable. At least on
any I've worked on.. And I was not under the impression this was a
water heater, but I may have missed it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Or just use a die grinder - either a stone or a burr.

[tra...@optonline.net]

Except that from what is described, there is no
box to replace. The NO is on a *heater* he's trying
to connect. I suspect he has a *cord* that's too big.
An option might be to install a box and transition from
the cord to 1/2" liquidtight, etc that will fit.

[philo]

Good point and now that I think of it the answer by "Caulking-Gunn"
might actually be the best...to simply use a transitional fitting.

Half inch hole, 3/4" conduit such things exist and would make it a
"no-mod" job.

[HerHusband]

>> I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical
>> knockouts are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit
>> to accomodate the size of my power cable.

> They do sell conduit fittings that slip over 3/4" conduit, yet the end
> that goes in the box is 1/2". I'd try one of them first.

I thought about a reducer of some type last night before I went to bed. I'm
not sure if all four wires will fit through the 1/2" opening, I'll have to
test it out with the cutoff pieces I have left.

> Your other option is slow, but a round file will do the trick

I have a dremel that would probably be faster, but again, I don't really
want any metal shavings falling inside the heater.

Thanks!

Anthony

[Oren]

OP did say "heater". I read too much into it, thinking water heater.
Thanks.

[The Daring Dufas]

I didn't have one of those either. I had assumed the OP was tool
disadvantaged and needed a way to get the job done without purchasing
tools that he would never use again. I often had to make do with what I
had cuz I wuz po. ^_^

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

Duck tape, cardboard, vacuum cleaner and magnet. ^_^

TDD

[John Grabowski]

>I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical knockouts
> are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit to accomodate
> the size of my power cable.
>

> My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those things
> are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task like this.
> I'm
> also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an existing hole?
>

> Another option is a step-drill, but those are almost as expensive at the

> home centers. I'm also a little worried about metal shavings falling
> inside

> the heater, or overshooting the size I need and making the hole too big.
>
> I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if anyone rents the knockout
> punches?

*I seem to recall a tip from one of the trade magazines. Try clamping a
piece of wood behind the hole and use an 1 1/8" hole saw to enlarge it. I
haven't tried this. Please post the results if you do.

You might find a rental place that has knockout punches.

[N8N]

On Friday, February 21, 2014 8:46:34 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
> I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical knockouts
>
> are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit to accomodate
>
> the size of my power cable.
>
>
>
> My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those things
>
> are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task like this. I'm
>
> also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an existing hole?
>
>
>
> Another option is a step-drill, but those are almost as expensive at the
>
> home centers. I'm also a little worried about metal shavings falling inside
>
> the heater, or overshooting the size I need and making the hole too big.
>
>
>
> I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if anyone rents the knockout
>
> punches?
>
>

> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Anthony

Harbor Freight has step drills for relatively cheap. I doubt they're any *good* but as long as they make one hole, it's probably the easiest way to go.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 2/23/2014 1:00 PM, N8N wrote:
>
> Harbor Freight has step drills for relatively cheap.
I doubt they're any *good* but as long as they make
one hole, it's probably the easiest way to go.
>

Years ago, when I did heating. HF has a three pack
of step drills up to 3/4, but that's not big enough.
Need one which goes to 7/8, and the knock out size
is 13/16.

Two pack:

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drill-bits-69088.html

Either of these two should make 13/16 hole.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[HerHusband]

John,

>> I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical
>> knockouts are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit
>> to accomodate the size of my power cable.

> Please post the results.

After considering multiple options, I remembered I had a metal nibbler in
my tool chest. I wasn't sure if it would handle the sheet metal on the
heater, but it worked fine.

You can see the full process with pictures at:

http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

Thanks everyone!

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[DerbyDad03]

One thing obvious from a couple of your pictures:

You have too many clamps.

Wait...that's not possible! ;-)

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

You didn't show a picture of the side of the heater where the old hole was and how you filled that hole in!!

[HerHusband]

> You didn't show a picture of the side of the heater where the old hole
> was and how you filled that hole in!!

I used a standard knockout seal like these:

http://tinyurl.com/mkjqkp8

You can also see the back side of the seal on the right side of the picture
in the "Rewiring the new cord" section of my web page:

www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[HerHusband]

> One thing obvious from a couple of your pictures:
> You have too many clamps.
> Wait...that's not possible! ;-)

I only have 8 pipe clamps (four feet long),
12 Jet parallel bar clamps (two feet long),
and 12 small bar clamps (one foot long).

It sounds like a lot, but I frequently run out of clamps when gluing up
panels, cabinet doors, or similar projects. I usually have to do my glueups
in stages over two or three days.

I started out with the pipe clamps, and still use them for larger projects.
They also came in handy for construction projects when I needed to pull
walls into alignment or something.

These days I prefer to use the Jet clamps when I can.

I don't use the small bar clamps as often, but when I need them they're
great to have. They have been most useful when gluing up curved objects
like bent wood laminations.

I would love to have more clamps, but I don't know where I would keep them.
:)

Ironically, I still don't have a band clamp. I need to get one of those.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[Bill]

HerHusband wrote:
>> One thing obvious from a couple of your pictures:
>> You have too many clamps.
>> Wait...that's not possible! ;-)
> I only have 8 pipe clamps (four feet long),

Get some pipe connectors (they are about a buck a piece) and
you can have even longer pipe clamps. Great for decks, workbenches, ...

[The Daring Dufas]

Ya see there, you used the tools you had on hand. I have a small hand
nibbler too and I often use it to turn round holes into square ones. ^_^

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

On 2/23/2014 2:46 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 2/23/2014 1:00 PM, N8N wrote:
>>
>> Harbor Freight has step drills for relatively cheap.
> I doubt they're any *good* but as long as they make one hole, it's
> probably the easiest way to go.
>>
>
> Years ago, when I did heating. HF has a three pack of step drills up
> to 3/4, but that's not big enough. Need one which goes to 7/8, and
> the knock out size is 13/16.
>
> Two pack:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drill-bits-69088.html
>
> Either of these two should make 13/16 hole.
>

I bought my first Unibit in the early 1970's at an electronic parts
store. The first one lasted until the mid 1980's when I broke it while
installing a set of automatic doors in a grocery store. The originals
manufactured by The Unibit Corporation seemed to best and longest
lasting. ^_^

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

1) should have just painted the cord white.
2) Now, you have a hot ceiling, and cold floor.
You need either a ceiling fan, or infrared heaters,
to warm the floor. Maybe Wirsbo in floor heat.

That's an impressive web page for a 3/4 inch knock
out story.

[HerHusband]

Bill,

>> I only have 8 pipe clamps (four feet long),

> Get some pipe connectors (they are about a buck a piece) and
> you can have even longer pipe clamps. Great for decks, workbenches,

I bought a couple of pipe connectors, but so far haven't used them.

The last time I needed to do a long clamp, I just ganged up three pipe
clamps so they pulled on each other in series. It was quick and easy, so
that's the approach I took. :)

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[HerHusband]

>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

> Ya see there, you used the tools you had on hand. I have a small hand
> nibbler too and I often use it to turn round holes into square ones.

I used to use the nibbler tool all the time when I did electronics work. I
made a lot of little gadgets when I was younger. These days the nibbler
just sits in my tool chest, out of sight, out of mind. It was nice to be
able to make use of it again.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[HerHusband]

>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

> 1) should have just painted the cord white.

The dangling cord would have bugged me even if it was painted white. I'm
funny like that.

> 2) Now, you have a hot ceiling, and cold floor.

Unless I'm working under the car, I'm usually not laying down on the floor.
So that's not really an issue. Besides, the fan in the heater does a good
job of circulating the warm air in the room. As long as it's comfortable to
do a little woodworking or a project at the workbench, I'm happy.

> You need either a ceiling fan, or infrared heaters,
> to warm the floor. Maybe Wirsbo in floor heat.

I thought about installing heating tubes in the slab when we built the
garage. But, I couldn't justify the extra expense since I only work in the
garage occasionally. Radiant floor heat would have been slow to respond,
and I'm usually only in the garage a few hours at a time. It's easy to go
in and flip on the electric heater while I'm working, then turn it off when
I leave.

> That's an impressive web page for a 3/4 inch knock out story.

I couldn't find much information on installing the FUH54 heater when I
ordered it. The owners manual that comes with the heater is also rather
limited. So I thought I would document my installation in hopes it would
help someone else in the same situation. The 3/4 inch knockout situation
was just an unexpected side project that worked into the story. :)

It took less than an hour to put the page together, so why not...

[Tekkie®]

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

>
> On 2/21/2014 7:46 PM, HerHusband wrote:
> > I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical
> > knockouts are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit
> > to accomodate the size of my power cable.
> >

> > My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those
> > things are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task
> > like this. I'm also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an
> > existing hole?
> >
> > Another option is a step-drill, but those are almost as expensive at
> > the home centers. I'm also a little worried about metal shavings
> > falling inside the heater, or overshooting the size I need and making
> > the hole too big.
> >
> > I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if anyone rents the
> > knockout punches?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Anthony
> >

> Use a Sharpie marker to mark the diameter of your 3/4" hole around your
> 1/2" KO. If you have an automatic center punch, use it to pop little
> pits around the hole a bit more than 1/8" apart. Use your drill with a
> 1/8" bit and drill through wherever you have the small pits which keep
> the drill bit from sliding away from where you want to drill through.
> You can do it without an automatic center punch if you put moderate
> pressure on the drill and start very slowly until you're sure the bit
> won't slide. After you've drilled all your closely spaced holes, you can
> go up another bit size to remove more metal. You can use diagonal wire
> cutters and pliers to cut out and break off the little tags of metal
> left around the circumference. You can finish up with a round or half
> round file if you want to make it prettier. An automatic center punch
> and half round file can be purchased from Harbor Freight for very little
> money. It may cost more at Lowe's Depot but you will be surprised at all
> the uses you will find for an automatic center punch. ^_^
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=automatic+center+punch
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/qc64pap
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-half-round-file-96629.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ornsdm3
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-round-file-96628.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/njeasyd
>
> Harbor Freight also sells step drill bits.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drill-bits-69088.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/q5spon9
>
> TDD

DD you are so full of info that I wish I had 40 years ago.

--
Tekkie

[Tekkie®]

bud-- posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

>

> On 2/22/2014 1:10 AM, HerHusband wrote:
> > Oren,

> >
> >> Will a 3/4" punch fit behind the 1/2" knockout on a water heater
> >> enclosure? Seems you need access from both sides for it to work, like
> >> say, in an electrical panel.
> >

> > I have a Fahrenheat FUH54 space heater, not a water heater. I have full
> > access to both sides of the opening.
> >
> > I just wonder how well a punch will work only having an extra 1/8" on each
> > side of the existing opening.
> >
>
> If you have a good rental place it should have KO punches.
>
> Change the wiring method to something with a 1/2" connector?

Bud, I was thinking that myself. To the OP would the wire involved allow a
reducer to be used?

--
Tekkie

[DerbyDad03]

Tekkie, try to keep up.

The OP posted a complete step by step photo essay of the completed job
yesterday.

[The Daring Dufas]

On 2/24/2014 9:09 AM, HerHusband wrote:
>>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm
>
>> Ya see there, you used the tools you had on hand. I have a small
>> hand nibbler too and I often use it to turn round holes into square
>> ones.
>
> I used to use the nibbler tool all the time when I did electronics
> work. I made a lot of little gadgets when I was younger. These days
> the nibbler just sits in my tool chest, out of sight, out of mind. It
> was nice to be able to make use of it again.
>

I try to purchase tools that have more than one use and not buy tools
that have only one function unless I use it often. ^_^

TDD

[Bob_Villa]

Please don't answer the stormin' moron point for point...it only gives him more fuel to be senseless! *L*
(I agree about painting the cord...it would look tacky)

[Stormin Mormon]

On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:23:24 AM UTC-6, HerHusband wrote:
>>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>
>>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm
>> 1) should have just painted the cord white.
> The dangling cord would have bugged me even if it was painted white. I'm
> funny like that.

SM: I got the sense of that.

>
>
>> 2) Now, you have a hot ceiling, and cold floor.
> Unless I'm working under the car, I'm usually not laying down on the floor.
> So that's not really an issue. Besides, the fan in the heater does a good
> job of circulating the warm air in the room. As long as it's comfortable to
> do a little woodworking or a project at the workbench, I'm happy.

SM: Oh, you're not funny about that?

>> You need either a ceiling fan, or infrared heaters,
>> to warm the floor. Maybe Wirsbo in floor heat.
> I thought about installing heating tubes in the slab when we built the
> garage. But, I couldn't justify the extra expense since I only work in the
> garage occasionally. Radiant floor heat would have been slow to respond,
> and I'm usually only in the garage a few hours at a time. It's easy to go
> in and flip on the electric heater while I'm working, then turn it off when
> I leave.

SM: Ah, so you want a fast acting device you
can flip off?

>> That's an impressive web page for a 3/4 inch knock out story.
> I couldn't find much information on installing the FUH54 heater when I
> ordered it. The owners manual that comes with the heater is also rather
> limited. So I thought I would document my installation in hopes it would
> help someone else in the same situation. The 3/4 inch knockout situation
> was just an unexpected side project that worked into the story. :)

SM: Glad that worked out.

>
>
>
> It took less than an hour to put the page together, so why not...

SM: Easy for you to say!

>
> Anthony Watson
>
> Mountain Software
>
> www.mountainsoftware.com
>
> www.watsondiy.com

[Bob_Villa]

I rest my case...

[Scott Lurndal]

Bob_Villa <pheeh...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:23:24 AM UTC-6, HerHusband wrote:
>> >> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>>
>> >> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

>

>Please don't answer the stormin' moron point for point...it only gives him more fuel to be senseless! *L*
>(I agree about painting the cord...it would look tacky)

Personally, I would have used a length of 1/2" flex conduit with #12 THHN rather than
using a "dryer cord" for this particular installation. No need to enlarge the knockout,
and the wiring is somewhat protected. A flat metal cover plate with a knockout would
hold the flex connector on the outlet box side.

[HerHusband]

> To the OP would the wire involved allow a reducer to be used?

Yes, I tested it and the four wires would fit through a 1/2" fitting. But,
I needed a 3/4" clamp for the entire power cable.

I could have used a reducer, but then I would have to add a cable clamp on
the end of that. It would have worked, but wouldn't look very clean
sticking out the back of the heater. I would also have needed to run to the
store for additional parts.

Thankfully, I was able to nibble away the edges of an existing opening and
fit a standard 3/4" cable clamp:

www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

Thanks,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

This has been one of the best threads on AHR in a long time, with the results actually being available for everyone to see and discuss in a civil manner.

[Oren]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:10:10 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>>> >> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

>Personally, I would have used a length of 1/2" flex conduit with #12 THHN rather than
>using a "dryer cord" for this particular installation. No need to enlarge the knockout,
>and the wiring is somewhat protected. A flat metal cover plate with a knockout would
>hold the flex connector on the outlet box side.

With the dryer cord, the OP can pull the unit down easily for service
in the future.

He wrote: "...decided to use a clothes dryer cord to connect the
heater. It is affordable, readily available, and lets me take the
heater down easily for cleaning or maintenance."

Unless I missed something, the cover plate with a knockout at the
outlet requires wire nuts and opening the box each time.

OP has a clean and simple install. Good job.

[HerHusband]

>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm

> Personally, I would have used a length of 1/2" flex conduit with #12
> THHN rather than using a "dryer cord" for this particular
> installation. No need to enlarge the knockout, and the wiring is
> somewhat protected. A flat metal cover plate with a knockout would
> hold the flex connector on the outlet box side.

The heater draws about 22 amps, so I needed four #10 wires to accomodate
the external switch.

I originally planned to direct wire with flexible conduit, but changed my
mind at the store. I didn't want to buy four rolls of different colored
THHN wire, and if you've ever tried to have wire specialty cut at the box
store, you know what a hassle that is. I couldn't find the conduit
connectors, they didn't have the cover plate with knockout in stock, and it
was becoming more trouble than it was worth.

Grab a dryer cord, receptacle, and cover plate. Done. :)

I'm glad I went with the second approach as I've already taken the heater
down twice.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[Stormin Mormon]

On 2/25/2014 6:04 PM, HerHusband wrote:
>>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm
>

> Grab a dryer cord, receptacle, and cover plate. Done. :)
>
> I'm glad I went with the second approach as I've already taken the heater
> down twice.
>

And that's just in the first half hour after
you got the job completed? OCD much?

[Tekkie®]

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...

Ok, I can only do two things at once - one of them is breathing.

I saw the pics very nice job. Since I am so far behind I will make no
further comments.

--
Tekkie

[Tekkie®]

hrho...@sbcglobal.net posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

> discuss in a civil manner.
>
>

You trying to start a fight?

--
Tekkie

[HerHusband]

>> I'm glad I went with the second approach as I've already
>> taken the heater down twice.

> And that's just in the first half hour after
> you got the job completed? OCD much?

It was actually over a three day period, but yeah, I do tend to overthink
most things. :)

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

[Scott Lurndal]

HerHusband <unk...@unknown.com> writes:
>>> You can see the full process with pictures at:
>>> http://www.watsondiy.com/heater.htm
>
>> Personally, I would have used a length of 1/2" flex conduit with #12
>> THHN rather than using a "dryer cord" for this particular
>> installation. No need to enlarge the knockout, and the wiring is
>> somewhat protected. A flat metal cover plate with a knockout would
>> hold the flex connector on the outlet box side.
>
>The heater draws about 22 amps, so I needed four #10 wires to accomodate
>the external switch.

Ah, I thought I had read that it was 2.2kw. At 220, that's about 10 amps,
which is why I suggested #12AWG.

>
>I originally planned to direct wire with flexible conduit, but changed my
>mind at the store. I didn't want to buy four rolls of different colored
>THHN wire, and if you've ever tried to have wire specialty cut at the box
>store, you know what a hassle that is.

As I usually have several spools of 12AWG THHN available, that hasn't
been a problem for me (and my local hardware store, OSH, is pretty good
about cutting custom lengths when I do need something I don't have). I
tend to avoid the orange and blue stores, but I understand that isn't an option for
everyone.

> I couldn't find the conduit
>connectors, they didn't have the cover plate with knockout in stock, and it
>was becoming more trouble than it was worth.
>
>Grab a dryer cord, receptacle, and cover plate. Done. :)
>
>I'm glad I went with the second approach as I've already taken the heater
>down twice.

I put mine up (3.5kw) a dozen years ago in the garage (a dayton unit) and
have never needed to take it down. Then again, it's wired with EMT and
hung from unistrut, so it's not particularly _easy_ to take down either.

For mine, I put both a DPST and Thermostat in circuit so I'd never need
to go near the heater and could completely disable it during the 10
months when it is never needed.

[The Daring Dufas]

He did what I've done when installing anything. The heater was installed
with consideration for maintenance at some future date. It's what I've
done for a lot of the commercial equipment I've installed over the years
because the next guy must be able to work on it. ^_^

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

On 2/25/2014 6:29 PM, HerHusband wrote:
>>> I'm glad I went with the second approach as I've already taken
>>> the heater down twice.
>
>> And that's just in the first half hour after you got the job
>> completed? OCD much?
>
> It was actually over a three day period, but yeah, I do tend to
> overthink most things. :)
>

It's actually a good thing you installed it with the thought of future
maintenance. A lot of the installations of equipment I've seen over the
years have been thrown in as quickly as possible and as cheaply as
possible. It adds to the cost of maintenance for a customer because of
the time it takes to remove and replace it. ^_^

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

On 3/3/2014 4:35 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>
>> He wrote: "...decided to use a clothes dryer cord to connect the
>> heater. It is affordable, readily available, and lets me take the
>> heater down easily for cleaning or maintenance."
>>

> He did what I've done when installing anything. The heater was installed
> with consideration for maintenance at some future date. It's what I've
> done for a lot of the commercial equipment I've installed over the years
> because the next guy must be able to work on it. ^_^
>
> TDD

And it sounds like you do get repeat business.
So, you are both the installer, and also the
next guy.

[Oren]

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 03:35:45 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:

>>
>> OP has a clean and simple install. Good job.
>>
>He did what I've done when installing anything. The heater was installed
>with consideration for maintenance at some future date. It's what I've
>done for a lot of the commercial equipment I've installed over the years
>because the next guy must be able to work on it. ^_^

Sometimes I spend a long time thinking about how I want to do
something, the approach to use and what the end results should be.

The bride may look at that as procrastination :)

[The Daring Dufas]

ME! ME! I wanna be an asshole! Pleeeeez! ^_^

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

I've been criticized for walking around a job and seemingly doing
nothing but walking around. I'm actually doing the job in my head first.
I take notes and measurements then when I'm ready, I start the
installation and don't have to stop and redo anything. I've seen goofy
bastards walk in, start installing gear and pulling wire. In short order
they'll run into a brick wall or some other insurmountable barrier
which brings them to a dead stop until they figure out they must start
over and head in a different direction. I have a weird idea that a job
should be done once and done correctly. Not only should a job be done
correctly but any equipment should be installed with consideration given
to access for any possible need for service and testing. Slamming
network equipment under a counter where crap is going to be piled on top
of it is quite stupid just as shoving a PC into a closed in compartment
under a desk then stuffing file folders in and around the computer thus
blocking cooling air. Putting a computer on the carpeted floor under a
desk is extremely idiotic since a computer acts like a vacuum cleaner
and will fill up with dust critters very quickly. I've seen too many
moronic things done to be surprised by anything but humans
have the uncanny ability to develop new ways to be a dumbass. o_O

TDD

[Oren]

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:26:24 -0600, The Daring Dufas

I understand. Worked with a guy in Florida. He called me in one day
for a lecture. I kindly explained that if he did what he proposed, he
would be a 'laughing stock among staff". Told him I would not obey his
policy and explained why.

Few years later, we worked together again in New York. He found out
that food (flour) service warehouse had been contaminated with "boll
weevils" (?). He devised the bright plan to use dangerous pest
chemicals to "spray the bags" and the whole warehouse. Not once
thinking of potential danger to employees, inmates and contamination
of the meals being prepared.

Twice I called him an "educated idiot" to his face. Complete lack of
common sense. Not that I ever expected it from him. All he needed to
do was simply replace the contaminated food. A real penny pincher he
was. Dumb as a box of rocks. One time he called the Head of the
Education Department into his office and told him to rewrite his
report, because he had had "his wife" review it and changes were
needed. Bill waited a few days, printed a new copy off without all
the red lines, and marks, submitted it back and it was approved. Not a
dang thang was changed. Bill had a degree English and was a retired
Air Force pilot.

You can't make it up if you had too.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 3/4/2014 6:26 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> I've been criticized for walking around a job and seemingly doing
> nothing but walking around. I'm actually doing the job in my head first.
> I take notes and measurements then when I'm ready, I start the
> installation and don't have to stop and redo anything. I've seen goofy
> bastards walk in, start installing gear and pulling wire. In short order
> they'll run into a brick wall or some other insurmountable barrier
> which brings them to a dead stop until they figure out they must start
> over and head in a different direction. I have a weird idea that a job
> should be done once and done correctly. Not only should a job be done
> correctly but any equipment should be installed with consideration given
> to access for any possible need for service and testing. Slamming
> network equipment under a counter where crap is going to be piled on top
> of it is quite stupid just as shoving a PC into a closed in compartment
> under a desk then stuffing file folders in and around the computer thus
> blocking cooling air. Putting a computer on the carpeted floor under a
> desk is extremely idiotic since a computer acts like a vacuum cleaner
> and will fill up with dust critters very quickly. I've seen too many
> moronic things done to be surprised by anything but humans
> have the uncanny ability to develop new ways to be a dumbass. o_O
>
> TDD

Some decades ago, I was planning out how to
stock a freezer at McDonalds where I was working.
The conversation went some like this:

Frank (store manager): What are you doing?
Chris: Thinking out the job here.
Frank: I'M NOT PAYING YOU TO THINK!
Chris: May I have that in writing?
Frank: NO!

The conversation didn't much improve from there.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 3/4/2014 7:06 PM, Oren wrote:
> I understand. Worked with a guy in Florida. He called me in one day
> for a lecture. I kindly explained that if he did what he proposed, he
> would be a 'laughing stock among staff". Told him I would not obey his
> policy and explained why.
>
> Few years later, we worked together again in New York. He found out
> that food (flour) service warehouse had been contaminated with "boll
> weevils" (?). He devised the bright plan to use dangerous pest
> chemicals to "spray the bags" and the whole warehouse. Not once
> thinking of potential danger to employees, inmates and contamination
> of the meals being prepared.
>
> Twice I called him an "educated idiot" to his face. Complete lack of
> common sense. Not that I ever expected it from him. All he needed to
> do was simply replace the contaminated food. A real penny pincher he
> was. Dumb as a box of rocks. One time he called the Head of the
> Education Department into his office and told him to rewrite his
> report, because he had had "his wife" review it and changes were
> needed. Bill waited a few days, printed a new copy off without all
> the red lines, and marks, submitted it back and it was approved. Not a
> dang thang was changed. Bill had a degree English and was a retired
> Air Force pilot.
>
> You can't make it up if you had too.
>

About 30 years ago, a friend gave me a bag of
cow teat syringes. Never got any thing like that
since, and would not know where to find them.
They are awesome with glue, or grease, or oil.

Gave a couple of them to a guy I know (note I
didn't write "friend" who is an engineer. A
few days later, I asked about em. He couldn't
get the halves to go together so he thew em
all out. I've not given him anything since then.
Those syringes were a once in a lifetime thing.

I still use a bunch of them, and they fit
together just fine.

[Oren]

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 20:13:51 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>About 30 years ago, a friend gave me a bag of
>cow teat syringes. Never got any thing like that
>since, and would not know where to find them.
>They are awesome with glue, or grease, or oil.
>
>Gave a couple of them to a guy I know (note I
>didn't write "friend" who is an engineer. A
>few days later, I asked about em. He couldn't
>get the halves to go together so he thew em
>all out. I've not given him anything since then.
>Those syringes were a once in a lifetime thing.

Udderly shameful.

I still have some syringes with needles to glue carpet seams or use
under a bubble in vinyl flooring. Best way to get a bubble out under
vinyl flooring by injecting a bit of glue, placing a weight on top
until it cures, Never know it was there.

[Tekkie®]

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

>

> On 2/25/2014 5:52 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
> > hrho...@sbcglobal.net posted for all of us...
> >
> > And I know how to SNIP
> >
> >> discuss in a civil manner.
> >>
> >
> > You trying to start a fight?
> >
> ME! ME! I wanna be an asshole! Pleeeeez! ^_^
>
> TDD

Alright, I will grant you this special status. I have now increased my
member roster to 2. Anyone else who wishes to apply must pay the "special
initiation fee". Plus shipping and handling.

--
Tekkie

[The Daring Dufas]

My roommate spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get the printer
cartridge refilled for his Lexmark inkjet printer after I told him I
could order a remanufactured and tested cartridge from one of my
suppliers which contained more ink than the factory cartridge for
$20.80. He says he can always find anything cheaper than I can. ^_^

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

Woopeeeee! I've always wanted to be a blazing posterior sphincter. Thank
you! Thank you! ^_^

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

You've been promoted to asshole.

What was your rank, before today? Politician?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 3/4/2014 8:43 PM, Oren wrote:
>> all out. I've not given him anything since then.
>> Those syringes were a once in a lifetime thing.
>
> Udderly shameful.
>
> I still have some syringes with needles to glue carpet seams or use
> under a bubble in vinyl flooring. Best way to get a bubble out under
> vinyl flooring by injecting a bit of glue, placing a weight on top
> until it cures, Never know it was there.
>

Sounds like the proper teat-ment.

[Tekkie®]

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

>

Now that you have achieved a goal in life you must make a new one. Mine is
rascal.

--
Tekkie

[hsihea...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, February 22, 2014 at 12:38:04 AM UTC-8, Caulki...@work.com wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 01:46:34 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
> <unk...@unknown.com> wrote:
>
> >I just bought a new heater for my garage, but all the electrical knockouts
> >are sized for 1/2" conduit. I need a hole for 3/4" conduit to accomodate
> >the size of my power cable.
> >
> >My first thought was to use a knockout punch, but good golly those things
> >are expensive. I don't want to spend $60 for a one time task like this. I'm
> >also curious if a punch would work for enlarging an existing hole?
> >
> >Another option is a step-drill, but those are almost as expensive at the
> >home centers. I'm also a little worried about metal shavings falling inside
> >the heater, or overshooting the size I need and making the hole too big.
> >
> >I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if anyone rents the knockout
> >punches?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Anthony
>
> They do sell conduit fittings that slip over 3/4" conduit, yet the end
> that goes in the box is 1/2". I'd try one of them first. You'll
> probably have to go to an electrical supply store, unless you have a
> large hardware store nearby, like an ACE Hardware super store. While
> you probably do need 3/4" conduit for thicker wires, there is a good
> chance they will slip thru that last half inch where that fitting is.
> I've used them, and they work well.
>
> Your other option is slow, but a round file will do the trick, and you
> probably got one of them. I've used that method on the old
> electronics, like the old tube type tv set chassis. Back in my
> younger days, I built or repaired that stuff, and I had to make holes
> for tube sockets, or other parts, which were often an oddball size.
> Those old chassis were probably the same or thicker metal. It takes
> awhile, but it works.

I realize this is 5 years old, but would you happen to have a link to where I can find this conduit fitting that slips over a 3/4" conduit and connects to a 1/2" KO? Thank you for your help.
-Cameron Ross

[trader_4]

IDK, I've never seen one. I guess if the number of wires and sizes allow
it, it may be code compliant, but 99% of the time when you're running 3/4
it's because you need 3/4 not 1/2". If code calls for 3/4, you can't
reduce it to 1/2 going into the box.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT), hsihea...@gmail.com
wrote:

What kind of conduit? EMT, FMC, Carflex (plastic)?
The OP was talking about a "cable".

I would try Home Depot, they have a pretty good selection. If not a
real electrical supply can help you out. Just be sure you know what
you want because these guys get pretty impatient with home owners.
Say something like "I need a FNC connector with a 1/2 inch KO entry"
and they will usually help you.
trade nicknames
EMT is thin wall metal conduit
FMC is Flexible Metal Conduit. (BX/MC looking stuff but the trade size
of conduit).
"Carflex" is the gray PVC flex conduit. (LNFC)
"Smurf" is (Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing ENT) and usually blue, hence
the name with a corrugated surface.
It is very unlikely home owners deal with IMC or RMC, (threaded
galvanized conduit that looks like old time water or gas pipe)

[hsihea...@gmail.com]

We are supplying EMT which needs to be 3/4" Trade Size. We are running it to a custom night light back box provision (Per spec the box only has one 1/2" KO). Trying to find a connector as we do not have access to the electrical box to punch it ourselves. and thank you I will look into some other electrical supply shops for assistance. Thanks again!

["\"Re...@home.com]

If you have room, perhaps attaching a box like this that has both 1/2 &
3/4 KOs could work. Use a nipple and locknuts on the 1/2 KO (or even a
length of EMT to best position the box).

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lighting-and-electrical/boxes-fittings-and-conduit/boxes/30331

or https://tinyurl.com/y6oolmny

Let us know what finally works.

[gfre...@aol.com]

There is a different rule for "nipples". It is 60% instead of 40%
Chapter 9 note 4
"(4) Where conduit or tubing nipples having a maximum
length not to exceed 600 mm (24 in.) are installed
between boxes, cabinets, and similar enclosures, the
nipples shall be permitted to be filled to 60 percent of
their total cross-sectional area, and 310.15(B)(3)(a)
adjustment factors need not apply to this condition."

They abuse the shit out of this in connectors.
Have you ever looked at a 90 degree Carflex connector?
You can put nine #12s in 1/2" Carflex but you will have a helluva time
getting more than 4 or 5 through that connector and you may need to
take it off of the conduit to do it. (that alone is a code violation)

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:14:58 -0700 (PDT), hsihea...@gmail.com

I suppose if you have no luck you could put a 1/2" chase nipple in the
box, put a 1/2-3/4" reducing bushing on that and use a 3/4 " threaded
coupler to screw your EMT connector in but I know that connector was
made at some time because I have one.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:14:58 -0700 (PDT),

You must mean you don't have access to the back of it??? Even that, how
do you plan to connect the conduit if you don't have access?

> and thank you I will look into some other electrical supply shops for assistance. Thanks again!

I have a reamer that would probably do what you want, but when I
couldn't find it and I looked for one for sale, I coudlnt' find one.
I find that sort of amazing.

I don't remember where I bought it, but maybe a yard sale. I'm sure I
didn't pay more than $10 for something I might never use, and didn't use
for 20 years.

It's short and stubby, with a yellowing uneven clear vinyl cover on the
handle.

I used it recently to put more cigarrette ligters in my car, because the
hole saws were either too small or too big, so I went with too small and
reamed the hole bigger. Aluminum is harder than plastic, but not that
much.

I have this one too. This one is easy to find.
https://www.zoro.com/general-reamer-pipe-t-handle-130/i/G1243234/feature-product?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjMfoBRDDARIsAMUjNZqNROoyJ2-IddX9v6zJDCsgm3bShtoAD0BmjV5qzhoCVI402BEBbBIaAv4DEALw_wcB

Lots of reamers but no big ones on the first page
https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Reamers/b?ie=UTF8&node=256298011

https://www.amazon.com/s?rh=n%3A16310091%2Cn%3A%2116310161%2Cn%3A383598011%2Cn%3A256295011%2Cn%3A256298011&page=2&qid=1561528458&ref=lp_256298011_pg_2


https://www.amazon.com/Champion-SA80-1-3-Cutting-Tool-Reamer/dp/B00S2MP6L6/ref=sr_1_47?qid=1561528496&s=industrial&sr=1-47
this goes up to 1 3/8" but unfortuantely it's $120.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EOD2H3Q/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1
Only $49 for 11/16. For some reason 3/4 is $69 Other sizes are
priced in between. Designed for portable pneumatic drills but I'm sure
could be used by hand.

I didn't know mine was so valuable. I'll have to add a line to my will.

[hsihea...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the assistance everyone!

Using the 4x4 with 1/2"x3/4" conduit is a good idea except I think we would have a code violation if that box is then not accessible within the wall.
That reamer would be good if we could modify it ourselves, night light box is die cast steel.

I am not sure if we can get the reduction bushing and coupler to work as our stock EMT Conduit is thin wall non threaded.

I appreciate the advice and links and have reached out to the contractor installing the Night Light and have informed them they need to use a box with 3/4" KO's as with further investigation it looks like the specs gotten from Tedicco on the backbox for the night light has that as an option. We would be out of code if we tried making shortcuts otherwise. Thanks again have learned a lot from the very in-depth information. Great group and Apologies for jumping on this group thread without a proper invitation.
Cheers!
-Cameron

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:36:19 -0700 (PDT), hsihea...@gmail.com
wrote:

>I am not sure if we can get the reduction bushing and coupler to work as our stock EMT Conduit is thin wall non threaded.

You would screw a 3/4" EMT connector into the 3/4" coupler use a
bushing to get it down to 1/2" and then use a 1/2"chase nipple to get
into the box..