Why no "frosted" porch lights

98 views
Skip to first unread message

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:30:25 AM11/21/21
to
I need a new porch light.

Mine is less than 10 years old and already it doesn't go on most of the
time when people walk up to it, and it's even harder to get it on by
flipping the switch. 20 tries and I give up.

But few** porch lights now have "frosted"** glass or the equivalent that
is hard to see clearly through. **What word am I looking for?

Why is that?

It was easy to get 10 years ago.



**And the ones that have the right glass are missing other things, like
like IR sensor, daylight sensor, or they look like they belong on a
chrome skyscraper, instead of my 1979 house which was the boyhood home
of the first governor of Maryland.

Most have clear glass, or seeded glass which is just clear glass with a
few imperfections.

I wanted "frosted" so people couldn't see inside and realize it's not a
gas flame or a candle, or whatever they used to use. Mostly that they
couldn't see that it's a light bulb.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:54:08 AM11/21/21
to
On 11/20/2021 11:30 PM, micky wrote:
> I need a new porch light.
>
> Mine is less than 10 years old and already it doesn't go on most of the
> time when people walk up to it, and it's even harder to get it on by
> flipping the switch. 20 tries and I give up.
>
> But few** porch lights now have "frosted"** glass or the equivalent that
> is hard to see clearly through. **What word am I looking for?
>
> Why is that?
>
> It was easy to get 10 years ago.
>
>
>
> **And the ones that have the right glass are missing other things, like
> like IR sensor, daylight sensor, or they look like they belong on a
> chrome skyscraper, instead of my 1979 house which was the boyhood home
> of the first governor of Maryland.

The first Governor of Maryland was a boy in a 1979 house?????

He died in 1647.

Thomas

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 6:58:18 AM11/21/21
to
I have the cracked glass look with edison style bulbs. Very appealing to me.

Dean Hoffman

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 7:32:28 AM11/21/21
to
Why not buy an outdoor lamp holder with the sensors? Then, you can
put whatever bulb you want in it as long as it's outdoor rated.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 7:56:57 AM11/21/21
to
On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 2:30:25 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> I need a new porch light.
>
> Mine is less than 10 years old and already it doesn't go on most of the
> time when people walk up to it, and it's even harder to get it on by
> flipping the switch. 20 tries and I give up.
>
> But few** porch lights now have "frosted"** glass or the equivalent that
> is hard to see clearly through. **What word am I looking for?
>
> Why is that?
>
> It was easy to get 10 years ago.

Fashion. People want the clear look, so that's what they sell.

Cindy Hamilton

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:10:48 AM11/21/21
to

trader_4

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:16:17 AM11/21/21
to
I believe what he wants is a *lamp fixture* that has frosted panes,
probably for the front door or similar. I'm surprised they aren't
readily available. I wonder where he looked?

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 11:39:42 AM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:54:00 -0800, Bob F
<bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/20/2021 11:30 PM, micky wrote:
>> I need a new porch light.
>>
>> Mine is less than 10 years old and already it doesn't go on most of the
>> time when people walk up to it, and it's even harder to get it on by
>> flipping the switch. 20 tries and I give up.
>>
>> But few** porch lights now have "frosted"** glass or the equivalent that
>> is hard to see clearly through. **What word am I looking for?
>>
>> Why is that?
>>
>> It was easy to get 10 years ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> **And the ones that have the right glass are missing other things, like
>> like IR sensor, daylight sensor, or they look like they belong on a
>> chrome skyscraper, instead of my 1979 house which was the boyhood home
>> of the first governor of Maryland.
>
>The first Governor of Maryland was a boy in a 1979 house?????
>
>He died in 1647.

Yes. It's amazing.

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 12:35:21 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 03:58:15 -0800 (PST), Thomas
Thomas, that's the closest to what I want. Frosted is the wrong
word. When I searched for frosted, I got white. I think white glass
existed 300 years ago but it was not used for coach lights.

I looked for cracked, or crackle, and it's markedly better than plain,
but I think you can still see what's inside. like in this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Emliviar-Outdoor-Crackle-Finish-2085B2/dp/B07JR1ZCWG


I want like you suggest, cracked, only a lot more cracked. I'll look
for more of the cracked ones.


Don't get me wrong. I know no one will be fooled into thinking I have a
gas light, but it shows I'm trying.

I see now they have "flame bulbs" that are reddish and flicker. It uses
multiple led's that go on and off separately to flicker, but I don't
want it to flicker. There are different sizes but here's one with a
video
https://www.amazon.com/LED-Flame-Effect-Light-Bulbs/dp/B07MKVDYRX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa
https://www.amazon.com/CPPSLEE-Halloween-Decorations-Outdoor-Halloween-Decor/dp/B077P5BTCY/ref=sr_1_3_sspa


The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
night. By golly, I found one design that with a dimmable bulb, stays on
all night at about 35% and goes up to 100% when someone comes to the
door. I like that. Only found 3 models listed however, so far.

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 12:52:11 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 05:16:14 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:32:28 AM UTC-5, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:30:25 AM UTC-6, micky wrote:
>> > I need a new porch light.
>> >
>> > Mine is less than 10 years old and already it doesn't go on most of the
>> > time when people walk up to it, and it's even harder to get it on by
>> > flipping the switch. 20 tries and I give up.
>> >
>> > But few** porch lights now have "frosted"** glass or the equivalent that
>> > is hard to see clearly through. **What word am I looking for?
>> >
>> > Why is that?
>> >
>> > It was easy to get 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **And the ones that have the right glass are missing other things, like
>> > like IR sensor, daylight sensor, or they look like they belong on a
>> > chrome skyscraper, instead of my 1979 house which was the boyhood home
>> > of the first governor of Maryland.
>> >
>> > Most have clear glass, or seeded glass which is just clear glass with a
>> > few imperfections.
>> >
>> > I wanted "frosted" so people couldn't see inside and realize it's not a
>> > gas flame or a candle, or whatever they used to use. Mostly that they
>> > couldn't see that it's a light bulb.

>> Why not buy an outdoor lamp holder with the sensors? Then, you can
>> put whatever bulb you want in it as long as it's outdoor rated.

Yeah, that's what I want.

>
>I believe what he wants is a *lamp fixture* that has frosted panes,
>probably for the front door or similar.

Exactly.

> I'm surprised they aren't
>readily available.

Yeah, that was my real question. I don't expect you guys to go shopping
for me, and with the other features I want, I don't expect you or me to
find it. I'm just wondering why there are so few. Maybe there were
never that many but the one I have now is like that.


>I wonder where he looked?

Amazon. They have hundreds of different models, it's amazing, but maybe
they only come from a few makers.

I looked in HD too but they only had one or two models that came close
to what I wanted. (When I bought the last one, it was at HD. They had
two makers and unfortunately I didn't note who made this one so I could
avoid the brand. It's been giving me trouble for a while already, and I
think it failed much too soon.)

I'll look in Lowes.

Ace is more hardware than furnishings, and it's 20 minutes to get there,
but maybe I'll look on their webpage too. yeah, Ace has 120 things
under porch light and only 17 are light fixtures. (Most are light bulbs)

I really like Amazon. It's better than being at the store in person
because I can take my time and read the detailed description. It used
to be that mail order catalogs only said a little about what you were
going to get. You had to either already know things about what was for
sale, or just wait to see what you got. But Amazon goes into so much
detail. (One flaw is size, where sometimes they only give the
dimensions of the box it comes in.)



There are quite a few that have cylindrical glass now and I don't think
that existed for the first 250 years coach lights were made, so I don't
want that.

As an aside, I used to live next door to Swedenborg House in Chicago and
a friend rented a bedroom there. They had religious services on Sunday,
for example. Emanuel Swedenborg was a "Swedish pluralistic-Christian
theologian, scientist, philosopher and mystic" wikip says. And one of
the 30" x 30" or bigger double hung windows broke, and it was curved,
and when they replaced it, it was $150 in 1968 money. The glass company
had to try several times to bend a flat pane into a nice curve. That's
why you sometimes see windows like that replaced with two or 3 narrower
flat panes, to save money.

So I'm sure there were no full cylinders of glass 300 years ago.


Or they come in pairs.


This one is called frosted and it's frosted almost enough, but it
doesn't have the motion or daylight sensor and it's $180. I wonder it's
so much.
https://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Point-Walnut-Bronze-Outdoor/dp/B003F4SK3W/ref=sr_1_26


It's interesting that some are rated to last so many years "when used 3
hours a day", even though they have a light sensor that will cause them
to run on average 12 hours a day.


It was easier before the web. I'd go to the store and they'd have one,
maybe two that I liked at the most, and I'd make a choice and go home.


micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 1:10:22 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:12:16 -0500,
Wow. This might well be what I want! It has the glass I want and a
choice between motion sensor and dusk to dawn. I don't need the 35%.

How did you find this?


I don't mind but the tax is 8.39 on a 63cad item. That's a little over
13%. Standard sales tax? But you get a lot of services.


Intestingly that when I first saw it, it said Not available at this
store and Not available for shipping. :-) But when I found a store
-- they're all clustered in southern Ontario -- that had it, then it
also had shipping!

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 1:14:35 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 04:56:54 -0800 (PST),
Given that I know what's best, how come more people don't want what I
want?

Who wants to see a lightbulb in a fixture style that goes back 300+
years. Why did God give us curly light bulbs for dining room
chandeliers** if people wanted to see regular bulbs?

**The mere fact that they're called chandeliers, from candle!

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 1:28:55 PM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:10:17 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
Here's the company site - easily found in the product description -
- order from them or look for a store in your zip code :

https://heath-zenith.com/products/plas-motion-sens-metal-fixture-hz-4133

ps : the original link was only to present the product - not for
your international cross-border shopping pleasure.
pps : the 13 % is HST harmonized goods & services tax in Ontario
- if the company ships to USA < ? > you might not need to pay it ?
John T.

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 2:53:36 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:30:23 -0500,
hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:10:17 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:12:16 -0500,
>>hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 02:30:19 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I need a new porch light.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>https://www.homehardware.ca/en/mission-oil-rubbed-bronze-outdoor-coach-light-fixture-with-150-degree-motion-sensor/p/3698739?page=category%20page#ccode=7251
>>>
>>> John T.
>>
>>Wow. This might well be what I want! It has the glass I want and a
>>choice between motion sensor and dusk to dawn. I don't need the 35%.
>>
>>How did you find this?
>>
>>
>>I don't mind but the tax is 8.39 on a 63cad item. That's a little over
>>13%. Standard sales tax? But you get a lot of services.
>>
>>
>>Intestingly that when I first saw it, it said Not available at this
>>store and Not available for shipping. :-) But when I found a store
>>-- they're all clustered in southern Ontario -- that had it, then it
>>also had shipping!
>
>
>Here's the company site - easily found in the product description -
>- order from them or look for a store in your zip code :
>
>https://heath-zenith.com/products/plas-motion-sens-metal-fixture-hz-4133

Aha. This is model 4133, but under products is 4135
https://heath-zenith.com/products/lantern-metal-coach-w-pir-bk?taxon_id=16#specsthat
has all the same things plus Dual Brite, which I think is that 35%
brightness feature. So this one has everything!! I didn't think it
could be found. Thanks a lot.

And it comes in black, bronze, and silver.

The glass is called seeded, but it seems much more "seeded" than some
others that just have a few blips. "Seeded Glass is a type of glass that
undergoes a process in which air or gas is injected into molten glass
before the sheet is fully formed."

This page also has the install and owners manuals. I like that a lot. I
like to read them before I buy something, but one is 4 pages dense with
text and the other is 28 pages (thank goodness only 9 are in English.)
It's still a lot to read.

Life is so much more complicated then when all there was was on and off.


BTW, REMEMBER A PREVIOUS THREAD?: the video that shows installation
says to add tape after putting on the wire nuts, and shows him doing
that.


It's also intersting that in the video, the base of the light is bigger
than the base on the house to which it is mounted. It looks bad. (I
don't have a base on my house, so not an issue for me.)


>ps : the original link was only to present the product - not for
>your international cross-border shopping pleasure.
>pps : the 13 % is HST harmonized goods & services tax in Ontario
>- if the company ships to USA < ? > you might not need to pay it ?
> John T.

I don't want to disrupt your harmony.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:07:58 PM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 04:56:54 -0800 (PST), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Then they also get to sell you a designer bulb ;-)
I have 2700 degree LED flame tips in my coach lights. They look like
60w but use night light sort of watts.
Once LED got away from that "Stalag 13" bright white, I became an
adopter. In reality, LEDs can be any color they choose since they use
all 3 primary colors. I have some ceiling luminaires that are switch
select able. (2700, 3000, 3500)

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:15:39 PM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:35:14 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
I got by all of that decades ago when I set another box for a motion
detector head below the porch lamp, before MD porch light were around.
I have a dual bright sensor in it now but I keep it off when it is
off. We have enough light pollution around here and I don't want to
contribute to it. The only place I use the dual bright is in the great
room light.

hub...@ccanoemail.ca

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:16:45 PM11/21/21
to

>
>I don't want to disrupt your harmony.
>

I hope you find the perfect light fixture.
... proper lighting is important for mental health.

< head smack > :-)

John T.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:26:30 PM11/21/21
to
On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:

> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
> night.

Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
my neighbors to pound sand.

All of my outdoor lighting is controlled by a manual switch. Thieves will
just have to bring their own work light.

Cindy Hamilton

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:33:20 PM11/21/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:14:30 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
When I was working on the Ca D Zan project in Sarasota, one of the
things I was doing was giving AHJ blessing to gas light chandeliers
that were converted to electric in 1926.
They were not as enamored with burning stuff to produce light.
They put those reproduction Edison style bulbs in them to preserve the
1926 look.

BTW that is why lamp parts use pipe sizes. Originally they were all
gas light designs.

Bob F

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 3:59:15 PM11/21/21
to
Ever heard of glass blowing. It has only been around for 2000 years or so.

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:17:09 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
"angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>
>> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
>> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
>> night.
>
>Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
>my neighbors to pound sand.

That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
have.

Ed Pawlowski

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:34:33 PM11/21/21
to
Our neighborhood has no "street light" poles. Each house though, has a
light on the front lawn so the street is not really dark. I also have
carriage lights on the garage and ceiling lights on the porch that I
sometimes put on.

In the back, I have a couple of solar powered lights with motion
detectors.

Dean Hoffman

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 8:36:26 PM11/21/21
to
On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:17:09 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >
> >> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
> >> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
> >> night.
> >
> >Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
> >my neighbors to pound sand.
> That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
> street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
> have.

A few game cameras scattered around in obvious places do that too. They don't necessarily
have to work.

micky

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 9:31:15 PM11/21/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 02:30:19 -0500, micky
<NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

>
>**And the ones that have the right glass are missing other things, like
>like IR sensor, daylight sensor, or they look like they belong on a
>chrome skyscraper, instead of my 1979 house which was the boyhood home
>of the first governor of Maryland.
>
>Most have clear glass, or seeded glass which is just clear glass with a
>few imperfections.
>
>I wanted "frosted" so people couldn't see inside and realize it's not a
>gas flame or a candle, or whatever they used to use. Mostly that they
>couldn't see that it's a light bulb.

It turns out I had in mind what's called by vendors
water glass or water ripple glass, not frosted glass.


rbowman

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 9:43:52 PM11/21/21
to
On 11/21/2021 06:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> In the back, I have a couple of solar powered lights with motion detectors.

I've got a battery powered LED with motion detector on the porch. A cat
likes it since he can announce he wants to come in without a lot of meowing.

I bought it this summer in an attempt to discourage a marauding skunk.
The skunk wasn't impressed but I resurrected it when we went back to
standard time and it was dark when I got home.

rbowman

unread,
Nov 21, 2021, 9:45:39 PM11/21/21
to
On 11/21/2021 06:36 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:17:09 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
>> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
>>>> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
>>>> night.
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
>>> my neighbors to pound sand.
>> That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
>> street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
>> have.
>
> A few game cameras scattered around in obvious places do that too. They don't necessarily
> have to work.

I got one to see what was wandering around at night. The deer fill up
the memory taking selfies.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 12:21:56 AM11/22/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 20:17:03 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
>"angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>>
>>> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
>>> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
>>> night.
>>
>>Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
>>my neighbors to pound sand.
>
>That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
>street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
>have.

That is an irrational assumption to have unless George Zimmermann
lives there.
Criminals aren't even scared off by high resolution cameras connected
to people's phones. How can a neighbor across the street and a light
on your porch be more effective ... unless he is willing to go
confront them.

Ed Pawlowski

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 12:39:17 AM11/22/21
to
A quick search shows some conflicting information but this seems reasonable

Does good lighting deter crime?
In most people's minds, there is a simple and direct relationship
between lighting and crime: better lighting will deter offenders who
benefit from the cover of darkness. Improved lighting means that
offenders are more likely to be seen by someone who might intervene,
call the police, or recognize the offender.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 2:15:29 AM11/22/21
to
The operative term is "in their minds".
"Like the safety of gates", it is just an illusion.

Compared to a nest camera that calls your phone, a light is nothing to
a bad guy. Is the whole house lit up?
If so your neighbor probably has their shade pulled to get the glare
off the TV. I don't want to see lights coming in my window.

Jim Joyce

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 3:13:40 AM11/22/21
to
When it comes time to buy LED bulbs, my wife and I agree that they must
be 4000K or higher. We dislike any sign of yellow.

Jim Joyce

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 3:19:55 AM11/22/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:52:05 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>I really like Amazon. It's better than being at the store in person
>because I can take my time and read the detailed description. It used
>to be that mail order catalogs only said a little about what you were
>going to get. You had to either already know things about what was for
>sale, or just wait to see what you got. But Amazon goes into so much
>detail. (One flaw is size, where sometimes they only give the
>dimensions of the box it comes in.)

Amazon is great for buying, but sucks for shopping. No matter how
specific your search is, they insist on showing what they think are
related items, with related being a very vague term.

Peeler

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 3:33:42 AM11/22/21
to
On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:43:45 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I've got a battery powered LED with motion detector on the porch. A cat
> likes it since he can announce he wants to come in without a lot of meowing.
>
> I bought it this summer in an attempt to discourage a marauding skunk.
> The skunk wasn't impressed but I resurrected it when we went back to
> standard time and it was dark when I got home.

<BG> More ridiculous senile drama from the resident senile drama queen.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 9:23:42 AM11/22/21
to
On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 8:17:09 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >
> >> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
> >> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
> >> night.
> >
> >Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
> >my neighbors to pound sand.
> That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
> street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
> have.

I don't live on a "street". There are no street lights. No sidewalks.
The houses are so far apart that one porch light is a dim glimmer
from the neighbor's yard.

Except the damned mercury vapor light that my next-door neighbor
has on a pole. Thing lights up my back yard like an airport and we
can barely skinny-dip in our hot tub.

Cindy Hamilton

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 9:26:41 AM11/22/21
to
YMMV. I don't even know what my neighbors look like. Neither of
my doors is visible from the street or from the neighbor's yard.
I'm better off hoping a criminal will trip over the patio furniture
in the dark.

Cindy Hamilton

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 9:28:45 AM11/22/21
to
Good thing you found each other. We prefer incandescent light, but in
the kitchen we've settled for LEDs at 4000K. We've done the kitchen
in shades of yellow and brown to tone down the lighting.

Cindy Hamilton

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 12:51:22 PM11/22/21
to
On 11/22/21 02:13, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

> When it comes time to buy LED bulbs, my wife and I agree that they must
> be 4000K or higher. We dislike any sign of yellow.

I'm like that too. I want light that's WHITE. Real white incandescent
bulbs are hotter, less efficient, and don't last as long. But now we
don't have those problems, I don't really know why so many people insist
on pale yellow.

BTW, I have WHITE LED lights in my refrigerator/freezer and microwave.

BTW2, IIRC, white light will appear brighter than pale yellow (with the
same power) because it is what people's eyes are adapted to.

--
33 days until the winter celebration (Saturday, December 25, 2021
12:00:00 AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Our duty to the god of christianity is to bury him." [Lemuel K.
Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_]

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 12:55:35 PM11/22/21
to
On 11/22/21 02:19, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

> Amazon is great for buying, but sucks for shopping. No matter how
> specific your search is, they insist on showing what they think are
> related items, with related being a very vague term.

Usually, the problem gets worse the more words it takes t specify what I
want.

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 1:01:25 PM11/22/21
to
On 11/22/21 08:23, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:

[snip]

> Except the damned mercury vapor light that my next-door neighbor
> has on a pole. Thing lights up my back yard like an airport and we
> can barely skinny-dip in our hot tub.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

That reminded me of the Christmas lights people used to have out here.
In the nineties, everyone surrounded thier front yard with these lights
(plain C9 incandescents) that were too bright, making the street look
like an airport runway. It made driving dangerous, since it would be
hard to see anything except those lights.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 1:36:41 PM11/22/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:13:34 -0600, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
Racist Now it's the Asians. ;-)

I suppose light is a personal choice. That is why that fixture has 3
settings.
I am OK with bright white for task lighting but it reminds me too much
of work to have it where I want to relax. We keep our house pretty
dark by some people's standards. The advantage is I have excellent
night vision, even at 75. I don't think it even gets dark around here.
I walk the dog up on the trail without any artificial light at all,
only the glow from all those people "being safe" hundreds of feet
away. What you can't see is stars. On a clear night you might see a
hundred when there are tens of thousands that should be visible.

If you have even been at sea on a war ship you know what I mean.

rbowman

unread,
Nov 22, 2021, 10:18:08 PM11/22/21
to
On 11/22/2021 10:51 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 11/22/21 02:13, Jim Joyce wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> When it comes time to buy LED bulbs, my wife and I agree that they must
>> be 4000K or higher. We dislike any sign of yellow.
>
> I'm like that too. I want light that's WHITE. Real white incandescent
> bulbs are hotter, less efficient, and don't last as long. But now we
> don't have those problems, I don't really know why so many people insist
> on pale yellow.

With developing cataracts I get pale yellow for free.

micky

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 1:07:14 AM11/23/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:23:39 -0800 (PST),
"angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 8:17:09 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
>> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> >
>> >> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
>> >> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
>> >> night.
>> >
>> >Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
>> >my neighbors to pound sand.
>> That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
>> street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
>> have.
>
>I don't live on a "street". There are no street lights. No sidewalks.
>The houses are so far apart that one porch light is a dim glimmer
>from the neighbor's yard.

No wonder you don't understand my situation. ;-)

micky

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 1:09:49 AM11/23/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:19:48 -0600, Jim Joyce
Once I find something close to what I want, the horizontal row in the
middle of its ad is often a better selection, more similar, than the
original search page.

There are usually two rows and I'm not sure which is better. I look at
both.

Jim Joyce

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 2:18:01 AM11/23/21
to
You might be confusing the color temperature with the lumens, if I have
the terminology right. A typical LED bulb that I have here is rated at
about 800-850 lumens at 4000K, so the light is very white but at only
850 lumens or so it's not overly bright. The exceptions are the
bathrooms, where there are 6 bulbs in a relatively small area, but
that's exactly what we want.


>The advantage is I have excellent
>night vision, even at 75. I don't think it even gets dark around here.
>I walk the dog up on the trail without any artificial light at all,
>only the glow from all those people "being safe" hundreds of feet
>away. What you can't see is stars. On a clear night you might see a
>hundred when there are tens of thousands that should be visible.
>
>If you have even been at sea on a war ship you know what I mean.

I've been to the desert about 40 miles outside of Las Vegas so I know
what "dark" is and what it means for viewing stars. I also frequently
fly for work so I see light pollution from that perspective, as well.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 5:42:20 AM11/23/21
to
On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 1:07:14 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:23:39 -0800 (PST),
> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 8:17:09 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:26:27 -0800 (PST),
> >> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The other restriction is, I liked when a motion sensor turned it on, and
> >> >> a couple of my neighbors wanted us all to have lights that stay on all
> >> >> night.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for that. I think I laughed for five minutes over that one. I'd tell
> >> >my neighbors to pound sand.
> >> That's a little harsh. They think it lessens the chance of crime if the
> >> street is well-lit. Surely that's a reasonable concern for them to
> >> have.
> >
> >I don't live on a "street". There are no street lights. No sidewalks.
> >The houses are so far apart that one porch light is a dim glimmer
> >from the neighbor's yard.
> No wonder you don't understand my situation. ;-)

That, plus the fact that there's so little crime here, it's barely on
my radar. Sure, every once in a while we get a "crime wave" where
people in a nearby subdivision who leave their cars unlocked and
parked on the street have stuff stolen from their cars or the
garage-door remote used to access their garage. But I just figure
that's a stupidity tax.

Cindy Hamilton

trader_4

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 10:01:09 AM11/23/21
to
And you have to scroll down through all that BS to be able to read
the details about the item you're looking at and interested in. I'm
surprised it works on anyone, I just try to blow past it as fast as
possible, never bought anything from all that crap.

Rod Speed

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 12:46:59 PM11/23/21
to
trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net> wrote
> Jim Joyce wrote
>> micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

>>> I really like Amazon. It's better than being at the store in person
>>> because I can take my time and read the detailed description.

I do use it quite a bit for some stuff, but its often not as cheap as ebay
or aliexpress.

>>> It used to be that mail order catalogs only said
>>> a little about what you were going to get.

Amazon still has that problem, the description is much worse than ebay
usually.

>>> You had to either already know things about what
>>> was for sale, or just wait to see what you got.
>>> But Amazon goes into so much detail.

I didn’t find it very useful when trying to buy the
heavy handled stainless steel cutlery I much prefer.
Very hard to see the weight.

>>> (One flaw is size, where sometimes they only
>>> give the dimensions of the box it comes in.)

Yeah, much worse in that regard than most ebay and aliexpress items.

>> Amazon is great for buying, but sucks for shopping. No matter
>> how specific your search is, they insist on showing what they
>> think are related items, with related being a very vague term.

Yeah, that’s a complete pain in the arse. ebay is vastly better in that
regard.

> And you have to scroll down through all that BS to be able to read
> the details about the item you're looking at and interested in.

And that detail is often far too brief.

> I'm surprised it works on anyone,

I do use it quite a bit for some stuff, particularly external
hard drives, car booster starters and ebooks and I used
to exploit their Philips Hue specials from europe until
they stopped sending them here once we required sellers
to collect the GST/VAT and remit it to out tax system.

Mark Lloyd

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 1:18:53 PM11/23/21
to
On 11/22/21 12:36, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

[snip]


> I don't think it even gets dark around here.
> I walk the dog up on the trail without any artificial light at all,
> only the glow from all those people "being safe" hundreds of feet
> away. What you can't see is stars. On a clear night you might see a
> hundred when there are tens of thousands that should be visible.
>
> If you have even been at sea on a war ship you know what I mean.

A few years ago I visited a friend in west Texas (about 100 miles west
of Waco) nowhere near any big towns. I hadn't sen nearly that many stars
before that night.

--
32 days until the winter celebration (Saturday, December 25, 2021
12:00:00 AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"You can't escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."
-- Abraham Lincoln

Peeler

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 1:30:50 PM11/23/21
to
On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 04:46:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

Bob F

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 1:36:58 PM11/23/21
to
On 11/23/2021 10:18 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 11/22/21 12:36, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>> I don't think it even gets dark around here.
>> I walk the dog up on the trail without any artificial light at all,
>> only the glow from all those people "being safe" hundreds of feet
>> away. What you can't see is stars. On a clear night you might see a
>> hundred when there are tens of thousands that should be visible.
>>
>> If you have even been at sea on a war ship you know what I mean.
>
> A few years ago I visited a friend in west Texas (about 100 miles west
> of Waco) nowhere near any big towns. I hadn't sen nearly that many stars
> before that night.
>

I wonder how many young people these days have never seen the milky way.

Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 5:26:01 PM11/23/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 00:39:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

It also shows them what is available to steal, and makes it easier
to steal it without tripping over anything -- - - - it even helps
them undo the chain you have tying the stuff down -- - -

Clare Snyder

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 5:28:34 PM11/23/21
to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 11:51:14 -0600, Mark Lloyd <not....@all.invalid>
wrote:

>On 11/22/21 02:13, Jim Joyce wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> When it comes time to buy LED bulbs, my wife and I agree that they must
>> be 4000K or higher. We dislike any sign of yellow.
>
>I'm like that too. I want light that's WHITE. Real white incandescent
> bulbs are hotter, less efficient, and don't last as long. But now we
>don't have those problems, I don't really know why so many people insist
>on pale yellow.
>
>BTW, I have WHITE LED lights in my refrigerator/freezer and microwave.
>
>BTW2, IIRC, white light will appear brighter than pale yellow (with the
>same power) because it is what people's eyes are adapted to.
The eye responds more to blue light than yellow or red - so a pure
white light appears brighter with the same lumen output

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 6:44:03 PM11/23/21
to
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:17:55 -0600, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
I know the difference. We have dimmers on the incandescents here and
they are low lumen and pretty yellow when dimmed. Most of the time the
living room, dining room and kitchen are lit by a single F40 two bulb
fixture with 2700 degree LEDs in it. Later in the evening it might
just be the dimmed light by my chair and the rope light over the train
track that is on a motion sensor (dual bright). If I need to read
something I can turn up the light. It is 150w full bright.

>>The advantage is I have excellent
>>night vision, even at 75. I don't think it even gets dark around here.
>>I walk the dog up on the trail without any artificial light at all,
>>only the glow from all those people "being safe" hundreds of feet
>>away. What you can't see is stars. On a clear night you might see a
>>hundred when there are tens of thousands that should be visible.
>>
>>If you have even been at sea on a war ship you know what I mean.
>
>I've been to the desert about 40 miles outside of Las Vegas so I know
>what "dark" is and what it means for viewing stars. I also frequently
>fly for work so I see light pollution from that perspective, as well.

Same sort of thing I imagine. There is just less air pollution at sea.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 6:45:01 PM11/23/21
to
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 02:42:18 -0800 (PST), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
That is as likely to be a kid in the neighborhood as a criminal gang.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 6:48:38 PM11/23/21
to
My bet is way up in the 90%.
The lights are where most of the people are and this is an old
picture. It is much brighter than that now. LEDs have made outdoor
lighting much cheaper and more prevalent.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2021, 6:53:05 PM11/23/21
to
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:28:29 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
They also are associating health issues with blue light. I let that go
before but it does seem more fatiguing to me. My eye doctor has
posters in his office warning about it so there must be something to
it.
One advantage of keeping the lights low here is I can dial down the
intensity of my monitor and TV, when it is on ... not so much lately.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 24, 2021, 5:35:25 AM11/24/21
to
Hence the quotes around "crime wave".

I haven't always lived out in exurbia. Even in normal city neighborhoods,
if my neighbors tried to control what outdoor lighting I use, I'd still
tell them to pound sand. Which is why I'd never live in a HOA-controlled
neighborhood.

Cindy Hamilton

micky

unread,
Nov 24, 2021, 8:47:13 PM11/24/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:35:21 -0800 (PST),
Lights on all night was not an HOA rule. They were, or more like one
person was, urging us to do it, probaby because he read one of those
safety pages that country goverments, home repair magazines, and police
put out occaionally.

I walked around one night and maybe 20% of the lights were on.

We do have street lights, and we have very few if any burglaries at
night (or even during the day) or car breakins

But people want to DO something so someone passed along this request,
and now that LED bulbs use so little electricity, it's about a dollar a
year.


>Cindy Hamilton

micky

unread,
Nov 24, 2021, 8:49:12 PM11/24/21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:09:44 -0500, micky
<NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Nov 2021 02:19:48 -0600, Jim Joyce
><no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:52:05 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I really like Amazon. It's better than being at the store in person
>>>because I can take my time and read the detailed description. It used
>>>to be that mail order catalogs only said a little about what you were
>>>going to get. You had to either already know things about what was for
>>>sale, or just wait to see what you got. But Amazon goes into so much
>>>detail. (One flaw is size, where sometimes they only give the
>>>dimensions of the box it comes in.)
>>
>>Amazon is great for buying, but sucks for shopping. No matter how
>>specific your search is, they insist on showing what they think are
>>related items, with related being a very vague term.
>
>Once I find something close to what I want,

Using the main search page.

> the horizontal row in the
>middle of its ad is often a better selection, more similar, than the
>original search page.
>
>There are usually two rows and I'm not sure which is better. I look at
>both.

I look at them when I'm having trouble finding just what I want.

angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 25, 2021, 5:20:11 AM11/25/21
to
Doesn't matter. Your neighbors are busybodies, prodnoses, and
curtain twitchers. I ignore such people on principle.

Cindy Hamilton

Bob F

unread,
Nov 25, 2021, 10:47:56 AM11/25/21
to
Isn't that the definition of an HOA?


angelica...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 25, 2021, 11:48:23 AM11/25/21
to
Heh. Good one.

Cindy Hamilton

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 25, 2021, 12:05:23 PM11/25/21
to
It certainly seems to turn out that way. We tamped that down a whole
lot when we rejected renewing the deed restrictions and the power to
attach liens so there was no real enforcement vehicle. We solve our
problems the adult way. We just reason with people and it works
surprisingly well. We have 85% or so who pay their dues and that turns
out to be more money than we need to maintain our amenities. No dues,
no boat ramp key, simple. If you don't have a boat, you don't have to
pay. We still get a lot of those people because they understand it
also costs money to maintain the park and even if they don't use it,
they like the green space.

gfre...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 25, 2021, 6:20:19 PM11/25/21
to
On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:48:19 -0800 (PST), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
I am suddenly thrust into the middle of a classic condo association,
actually my FIL is but I am there all the time.
It is as bad as people say it is. There are a couple hundred units in
the condo, divided into 3 buildings with sub associations in each.
They have plenty of people with nothing but time on their hands and
the 42 page rule book in their hand, looking for violations they can
complain about.
We haven't been fined yet but we have had several warnings about silly
stuff, some not even valid and we have only been there a month. My FIL
said he is thinking about just giving them a grand or so and tell them
to bill him out of that. Don't bother him about it.

micky

unread,
Nov 26, 2021, 1:59:20 AM11/26/21