Lubricating PVC fittings to pre-fit
Jay-T
from a first-floor toilet. Where the drain comes through the basement
ceiling from the toilet, there are two 45-degree 3-inch fittings -- one is
the toilet flange itself which is a 45-degree fitting and the other is a
45-degree elbow. The place where they come through the ceiling is hard to
access.
What I would like to be able to do is put the two PVC fittings together and
then be able to easily rotate both so I can get the correct angle I need to
continue the run. The problem is that when I put the two fittings together,
they are next to impossible to rotate while in place. I need the fittings
to be able to rotate one inside the other to get the correct line-up.
Has anyone ever tried lubricating PVC fittings first just to get the
fittings lined up correctly, then marking them for the correct line-up, and
then remove the lubricant and glue the fittings together? Does anyone know
what kind of lubricant might work for this? So far, I have just tried dish
soap, but that doesn't work -- the parts just stick together as usual and do
not turn easily. Any suggestions on what to use?
Existential Angst
news:hft0rf$4mu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
By dish soap, you mean dishwashing liquid? I would have suggested that,
surprised it doesn't work.
Dilute it out a little?
Could be bum fittings as well.
Do *any* of your fittings fit together so that you can rotate them?
The problem is, as I suspect you've already anticipated, that any oil-type
lubricant that ;might work better will jeopardize the pvc glue integrity.
If worse comes to worse, pvc fittings are not that expensive, so maybe you
can just remove some material from them so they can rotate, and sacrifice
them for this particular app, and have spares on hand.
Keep them around for future fit-ups, but mark them so you don't
inadvertantly use them.
--
EA
>
>
Hustlin' Hank
wrote:
>
> If worse comes to worse, pvc fittings are not that expensive, so maybe you
> can just remove some material from them so they can rotate, and sacrifice
> them for this particular app, and have spares on hand.
> Keep them around for future fit-ups, but mark them so you don't
> inadvertantly use them.
>
> --
> EA
>
I like your idea EA.
Another thing you might try is hair spray. It will make things very
slippery. I use hair spray to install handlebar grips on motorcycles.
Altho I am not sure what would happen if you let it sit long enough to
dry, it may glue them together. Usually takes awhile to dry if you use
a lot. If you try this, let us know if it works. :-)
Hank
The Daring Dufas
We spilled some Armor All on the kitchen floor last night and
it darned near turned the place into a skating rink! I don't
know if it would work or how to get it off afterwards but the
PVC cleaner/primer always seem to fix things up fairly well.
TDD
RicodJour
Buy or jury-rig a couple of strap wrenches.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94119
R
Jay-T
> "Jay-T" <Ja...@eyurtiohgf.ghj> wrote in message
> news:hft0rf$4mu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I am pre-fitting some PVC fitting for a 3-inch sewer drain line
>> together and then be able to easily rotate both so I can get the
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried lubricating PVC fittings .... and then remove
>> the lubricant and glue the fittings together? ...
> By dish soap, you mean dishwashing liquid? I would have suggested
> that, surprised it doesn't work.
> Dilute it out a little?
Yes, I did mean dishwashing liquid. I didn't try diluting it (yet).
> Could be bum fittings as well.
I think the fittings are fine.
> If worse comes to worse, pvc fittings are not that expensive, so
> maybe you can just remove some material from them so they can rotate,
> and sacrifice them for this particular app, and have spares on hand.
> Keep them around for future fit-ups, but mark them so you don't
> inadvertantly use them.
That's a good idea that I didn't think of.
Jay-T
> .....
> Another thing you might try is hair spray. It will make things very
> slippery. I use hair spray to install handlebar grips on motorcycles.
> Altho I am not sure what would happen if you let it sit long enough to
> dry, it may glue them together. Usually takes awhile to dry if you use
> a lot. If you try this, let us know if it works. :-)
I don't have any hair spray, but I guess I could get some and try it. My
hunch is that it would get sticky before I could make the adjustment I need
to make in the fittings.
Jay-T
> Jay-T wrote:
>> I am pre-fitting some PVC fitting for a 3-inch sewer drain line
> We spilled some Armor All on the kitchen floor last night and
> it darned near turned the place into a skating rink! I don't
> know if it would work or how to get it off afterwards but the
> PVC cleaner/primer always seem to fix things up fairly well.
I'm still experimenting. Maybe that will work. Who knows?
This morning I tried baby powder -- didn't work. I got the idea when doing
an Internet search and found something about powdered lubricants.
I also tried Surgi-Lube which is a water-based lubricant that is used in
some medical and EMS applications. That didn't work either.
Jay-T
> On Dec 11, 3:45 am, "Jay-T" <Ja...@eyurtiohgf.ghj> wrote:
>> I am pre-fitting some PVC fitting for a 3-inch sewer drain line
> Buy or jury-rig a couple of strap wrenches.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94119
There is no room or access to be able to get any type of wrenches or tools
in there to make any adjustments. It is hard to describe where the fittings
are exactly.
If I can't figure out a lubricant that works, I'll just have to reach up
there and do the best I can to make the adjustment by hand.
But, I did wonder if there is any kind of lubricant out there that would
work for this of application. If so, I think it would be useful when
pre-fitting a lot of PVC drain lines that require a number of turns, L's,
45's, etc. It would be an easier way to pre-fit and adjust everything, then
mark them with a line-up mark, and later go back and clean and glue the
connections.
EXT
I don't think anything will work. I am not familiar with PVC plumbing
fittings because ABS plumbing fittings are mandated in my area, however, I
understand that they are made very similar. ABS fittings will never fit
together cold because they are tapered and the female hubs are designed to
be undersize at about the halfway point of insertion. The idea is that the
solvent/glue will disolve both the surface of the fitting and the pipe and
only then will they bottom out when you press them together tightly. This
way you get a solid solvent welded joint that will not leak. Dry, they just
jamb together and not rotate nor bottom out.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> But, I did wonder if there is any kind of lubricant out there that would
> work for this of application. If so, I think it would be useful when
> pre-fitting a lot of PVC drain lines that require a number of turns, L's,
> 45's, etc. It would be an easier way to pre-fit and adjust everything, then
> mark them with a line-up mark, and later go back and clean and glue the
> connections.
I've never seen a plumber do anything but dry-fit the fittings.
RicodJour
True, but then again the guy probably broke out the Sawzall with the
Axe demolition blade and made an opening he could climb right into.
Sometimes I swear it would be easier to build the house around the
plumbing than to repair what the Hackmaster General did to the
framing.
R
Red Green
news:hft0rf$4mu$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
What type of store did you buy them in?
Try running sandpaper/Abrasive Cloth around the outside of the male end
and very slightly knock the outer edge off/bevel it. Dry fit befoe
install as well.
If that's ng, try another supplier. Dry fit at the store.
I'm not even a good wanna-be plumber but my understanding is those
fittings HAVE to be clean before priming and gluing if you don't want it
leaking. All the lubricants you mention are contaminates.
JIMMIE
Waterless hand cleaner makes a good temporary lubricant and it cleans
off easy.
Jimmie
Jay-T
>
> I don't think anything will work. I am not familiar with PVC plumbing
> fittings because ABS plumbing fittings are mandated in my area,
> however, I understand that they are made very similar. ABS fittings
> will never fit together cold because they are tapered and the female
> hubs are designed to be undersize at about the halfway point of
> insertion. The idea is that the solvent/glue will disolve both the
> surface of the fitting and the pipe and only then will they bottom
> out when you press them together tightly. This way you get a solid
> solvent welded joint that will not leak. Dry, they just jamb together
> and not rotate nor bottom out.
Interesting. I didn't know that the fittings were tapered. That explains
why no amount of lubricant would work.
I just did a Google search for " are PVC fittings tapered " (without the
quotes) and found more info. Here are two links that I found:
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/pvc-drain-dry-fitting-solvent-glueing-55381.html
http://www.genovaee.com/?id,288 (on that page, click on the first link at
the top of the list on the right)
Jay-T
this afternoon. I ended up just using brute force to twist the two
45-degree angled fittings to where they made the complex angle turn I needed
etc. What helped was that I put a piece of 3-inch PVC in the bottom
45-degree coupling and used that for leverage to turn that one.
HeyBub
1. Lube it up with whatever you've got.
2. Place in position.
3. Mark pieces.
4. Remove and get as much chicken-fat, or whatever you used, off the parts.
5. Cement the parts together and install.
I believe since this is a DRAIN, and under no pressure, the chances of it
leaking are remote.
Steve Barker
The glue make a good lube. Rotate as needed as you glue them up. It's
not rocket science.
s
Jay-T
news:Ld6dnUdvg7DseL_W...@giganews.com...
Actually, it is rocket science -- or at least 3-dimensional geometry
involving complex angles.
Sure, the glue makes a good lubricant -- for about 15 seconds. Then it
makes a good glue, and whatever you have in place at the time the glue sets
you are stuck with, whether it works or not. For this application, it was a
matter of having to dry fit the pieces together first to see if they would
even be capable of making the complex turn that was involved and end up with
a pipe coming down at the correct angle to be able to make the next
connection.
Bob Villa
> I am pre-fitting some PVC fitting for a 3-inch sewer drain line coming down
> from a first-floor toilet. Where the drain comes through the basement
> ceiling from the toilet, there are two 45-degree 3-inch fittings -- one is
> the toilet flange itself which is a 45-degree fitting and the other is a
> 45-degree elbow. The place where they come through the ceiling is hard to
> access.
>
> What I would like to be able to do is put the two PVC fittings together and
> then be able to easily rotate both so I can get the correct angle I need to
> continue the run. The problem is that when I put the two fittings together,
> they are next to impossible to rotate while in place. I need the fittings
> to be able to rotate one inside the other to get the correct line-up.
>
> Has anyone ever tried lubricating PVC fittings first just to get the
> fittings lined up correctly, then marking them for the correct line-up, and
> then remove the lubricant and glue the fittings together? Does anyone know
> what kind of lubricant might work for this? So far, I have just tried dish
> soap, but that doesn't work -- the parts just stick together as usual and do
> not turn easily. Any suggestions on what to use?
What if you taper (reduce the diameter) of the male fitting and use it
to mark another male fitting.
If it has a stamp or mold marking on the male...mark it from there to
the female. Then use a new one that will fit tightly!
HTH
bob_v
Jay-T
news:a0fa8ef7-8a8f-4008...@m11g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
What if you taper (reduce the diameter) of the male fitting and use it
to mark another male fitting.
If it has a stamp or mold marking on the male...mark it from there to
the female. Then use a new one that will fit tightly!
HTH
bob_v
+++++++
That's similar to what Existential Angst wrote above which was,
"If worse comes to worse, pvc fittings are not that expensive, so maybe you
can just remove some material from them so they can rotate, and sacrifice
them for this particular app, and have spares on hand.
Keep them around for future fit-ups, but mark them so you don't
inadvertently use them."
But, your idea is a little more specific about maybe just reducing the size
of a test male fitting to do the line-up. In my case, that probably would
have worked more easily than what I ended up doing -- which was basically
using brute force and some leverage.
Tony
How about K-Y jelly? Or better yet Astro Lube! After all, you are
dealing with male to female fittings.
Existential Angst
Hmmmm.... if that turn is *too* complex, I'd hang a sign on the toilet that
says, "Flush Often, Please".
Esp. with 3" pipe.
Mebbe N'Yawkers just have bigger bowel movements? Our code is 4".
Texas proly has a 6" code.... 48 oz steaks, donchaknow....
--
EA
>
Existential Angst
news:7ohqfbF...@mid.individual.net...
It's AstroGlide, and its origins were male-male.
Still, given that, uh, demanding work environment/application, proly would
work all the better on pvc.
--
EA
Steve Barker
the outlet on the toilet is 2.5 inches at best and most are 2". 4" pipe
is overkill. And I've never seen 4" pipe in a house. It won't fit down
a wall.
s
Roger Shoaf
"Jay-T" <JayT@xkljcvbnm,.lkm> wrote in message
news:hftqmp$i6v$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I think hairspray has acetone or some other such solvent and might very well
melt the plastic like the glue does.
--
Roger Shoaf
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the
Congress?
Tony
Four inch pvc fits in walls! In my last house there was one interior
(non load bearing) wall that was 2x6 studs. They had some special name
for it but I forget the name. In that wall are 2 4" pvc pipes, one for
the plumbing waste vent through the roof and the other was put in and
capped in the attic just in case I ever needed it for Radon abatement.
I agree 3" is fine for the toilet. When the trap/path leaving a toilet
gets to be 4", then maybe a 4" pipe would be needed. It is however very
common for the main pipe to be 4" where the smaller pipes join and that
normally goes out to the septic or city sanitary sewer.
Bob Villa
for it but I forget the name.
Wet wall, waste wall, or utilities wall? (as seen in "The Matrix")
charlie
"Roger Shoaf" <sh...@nospamsyix.com> wrote in message
news:12606713...@news01.syix.com...
>
> "Jay-T" <JayT@xkljcvbnm,.lkm> wrote in message
> news:hftqmp$i6v$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Hustlin' Hank wrote:
>> > .....
>> > Another thing you might try is hair spray. It will make things very
>> > slippery. I use hair spray to install handlebar grips on motorcycles.
>> > Altho I am not sure what would happen if you let it sit long enough to
>> > dry, it may glue them together. Usually takes awhile to dry if you use
>> > a lot. If you try this, let us know if it works. :-)
>>
>> I don't have any hair spray, but I guess I could get some and try it. My
>> hunch is that it would get sticky before I could make the adjustment I
> need
>> to make in the fittings.
>>
>>
>
> I think hairspray has acetone or some other such solvent and might very
> well
> melt the plastic like the glue does.
HIGHLY unlikely. that would make it be pretty toxic.
some msds files:
non-aerosol hairspray:
http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_about_pg/msds/beauty_care/haircare/aussie/Aussie_Sprunch_Catch_the_Wave_Non-Aerosol_Hair_Spray_%2898627641%29.pdf
aerosol hairspray:
http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_about_pg/msds/beauty_care/haircare/gillette/Gillette_Style_Hair_Spray_%2895925520%29.pdf
mostly: water, alcohol, some sort of polymer glue, and fragrences.