12" rough-in toilets actually measure 10"?
Mikepier
one we have in a rental. The original one in the rental is 10" rough
when I measured from the flange studs to the wall. Lowes only sells
12" rough-in in stock, however the toilets they had on display I
measured just for curiousity, and most actually measured about 10"
from the flange holes to the back of the tank. So I'm just wondering
why they do this?
RicodJour
To allow for varying wall thicknesses, for one reason, but mainly its
because a little short is a lot better than a little long.
R
Molly Brown
Until someone leans back on it anyway.
Mikepier
Well, good news for me is at least I don't have to special order a 10"
bowl. It looks as though I can buy a 12" bowl off the shelf as it will
fit.
aemeijers
??? Toilet tank is not supposed to touch the wall. If they can 'lean
back' and make the toilet move, either the floor and drain line assembly
are rotted out, or the tank was not secured to the bowl properly.
--
aem sends...
aemeijers
Uh, make sure the back of the tank, including the lid, won't hit the
wall, before you decide against the 'close fit' model. On mine, they
extend several inches back past the base.
--
aem sends...
Doug Miller
Why do they do what? Give accurate dimensions? The rough-in dimension is the
distance from the *centerline* of the opening to the wall. Since the opening
is 4" in diameter, hence 2" in radius, the distance from the *edge* of the
opening to the back of the tank is *supposed* to be a bit less than 10" for a
12" rough-in.
RicodJour
Good pick up. I skipped over the part where he was measuring from the
flange bolts and not the centerline.
R
Steve Barker
the tanks are mounted on rubber bushing and a big rubber gasket. They
do move when leaned on. And thus so, should be positioned so the lid
touches the wall. I'd break mine right off if it didn't.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Steve Barker
he'll find out soon enough. If in fact his bolts are centered on the
flange, and IF in fact they are 10" from the wall, then he's probably
NOT gonna be installing a standard 12" setback toilet.
DanG
tanks. No toilets depend on the tank leaning against the wall.
The floor/wall connection needs to be solid on its own. The
rubber or wax gasket is for a water and gas tight seal, not for
supporting or holding the toilet. Vitreous in contact with the
floor or shimmed while being held down by bolts that are well
anchored into the floor or attached to the floor flange if it is
rigidly mounted.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .
"Steve Barker" <ichase...@notgmail.com> wrote in message
news:bcKdneKeLM8BNR7R...@giganews.com...
George
Every tank I have ever seen has resilient mounts and will move relative
to the base if someone leans against it.
RogerT
Here's a link to a few blurbs about the rough-in measurements, people's
preferences, etc.:
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/outlet-11-wall-can-use-12-rough-toilet-275915-last.html
As far as I can tell, different people have different preferences regarding
how far from the wall the tank should end up being. I have seen many setups
where the distance is one or two inches, and the two-inch distance seems a
little strange to me. I would rather see the distance be much smaller,
maybe 1/2-inch, but not have the tank actually touching the wall (so taking
the tank cover off won't involve rubbing it against the wall).
But, given the above discussion link, I think maybe you'll get what you want
by buying one of the 12-inch rough-in toilets you saw. If you take careful
measurements, which you appear to have done, the end result seems like it
would be that the 12-inch toilet you buy will fit well in the space you have
and will end up with the tank close to, or touching, the wall.
aemeijers
Okay, they can move a little. Emphasis on 'little', like enough to avoid
fracturing china around the bolt holes when you bump it or flush it. But
it still isn't a frigging lazyboy recliner. I've never seen a properly
installed modern toilet where the tank or lid touched the wall in normal
usage. You want air flowing back there, to keep the wall condensation-free.
Not to mention, leaning back is NOT the recommended 'fecal position'
posture for the process. The geometry is all wrong. Rodin had it right
with his 'The Thinker' statue. Anybody still sell those joke
paperweights with that sculpture sitting on the john? Always wanted one
of those.
--
aem sends...
Larry Fishel
> the tanks are mounted on rubber bushing and a big rubber gasket. They
> do move when leaned on. And thus so, should be positioned so the lid
> touches the wall. I'd break mine right off if it didn't.
You either didn't tighten the bolts enough or you're pushing REALLY
hard. The tank should probably have a small amount of give to keep
from breaking things, but should definitely NOT be touching the wall.
Many bathroom walls are made of drywall which would be damaged by
this, and you sure don't want your porcelain tank or lid slamming
against a tile wall when you flop down.
I'm trying to picture the framer, the drywaller and the plumber that
built your house all using their precision t-squares to make sure the
toilet flange is mounted in exactly the right place so that a
particular model of toilet will sit exactly touching the wall when
everything is finished...
Nope, still having trouble picturing it, so I'm coming to the
conclusion that that would be a bad design... :)
Colbyt
"> In article Mikepier <mikep...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >I was shopping in Lowes tonight for a basic toilet to replace an old
> >one we have in a rental. The original one in the rental is 10" rough
> >when I measured from the flange studs to the wall. Lowes only sells
> >12" rough-in in stock, however the toilets they had on display I
> >measured just for curiousity, and most actually measured about 10"
> >from the flange holes to the back of the tank. So I'm just wondering
> >why they do this?
>
> Why do they do what? Give accurate dimensions? The rough-in dimension is
> the
> distance from the *centerline* of the opening to the wall. Since the
> opening
> is 4" in diameter, hence 2" in radius, the distance from the *edge* of the
> opening to the back of the tank is *supposed* to be a bit less than 10"
> for a
> 12" rough-in.
I am of the opinion without any proof that this RO measurement has evolved a
bit over the years. Most likely as a result of the smaller tanks using 1.6
gal.
35 years ago if you were installing a new flange we measured out from the
studs 12-1/2". Then about 20 years ago that was suddenly leaving way too
much room behind the tank.
So let's surmise that it is now a 12" RO from the studs, add 1/2" of
drywall, 5/8" of base and 1/2" of shoe base and you depending on what you
measured, where and how well you could easily be 10-10-1/2" from the shoe
base to the center of the flange.
The only way you will ever know for sure is buy it, open carefully and dry
fit the thing.
I just went in and measure my Mansfield. The measurement is 11-1/2" from
the shoe base to bolts. The Mansfield unlike many cheaper BORG units has a
tapered back so that it is closer to wall at the top than it is at the
bottom. Even with that I have an inch between the tank lid and the wall.
Most of the BORG units have a straight back on the tank. Over the years I
have routinely added a small scrap of 2x4 to the wall behind the tank to
prevent tenants from breaking something when the feel the need to recline on
the john.
I have a hunch that the $80 jonnie in box from Lowes will work just fine for
you though you may choose to upgrade the seat.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com
Molly Brown
>
> - Show quoted text -
The toilets that you’ve seen must have been used by angelic people.
With some of the people that I have had to deal with I had to custom
cut a piece of wood and screw it on the wall behind the tank to keep
them from breaking the tank or at least causing it to leak when those
gaskets become dry and brittle . Especially those new thin China ones.
I’ve never seen a wall become damaged by condensation from a tank
without all the bathroom walls being damaged first, but those
bathrooms didn’t have a vent fan in the first place. In older houses I
have seen it where you couldn’t stick a sheet of paper between the
toilet and the back wall, a tribute to those old world plumbers who
took the time to do it right.
Steve Barker
> Sorry, Steve, just not so. Commercial toilets don't even have
> tanks. No toilets depend on the tank leaning against the wall.
> The floor/wall connection needs to be solid on its own. The
> rubber or wax gasket is for a water and gas tight seal, not for
> supporting or holding the toilet. Vitreous in contact with the
> floor or shimmed while being held down by bolts that are well
> anchored into the floor or attached to the floor flange if it is
> rigidly mounted.
>
aemeijers
Might I recommend 'vandal proof' (AKA prison) toilets? Sounds like some
of your customer base might be happier with facilities out back in a
small dedicated building.
Perhaps some of those old houses originally had the high-mount tanks
that were actually hung on the wall.
--
aem sends...
Harry K
Errm...the flange bolts _are_ on the centerline. At least they asre
if those are the bolts used to fasten down the toilet.
Harry K
George
Doesn't need to be an older home. I have installed a few and when laying
out the center of the drain you use the rough in dimension + the
finished wall thickness and the result is the top of the tank just rests
against the wall. I purchased the toilets from a real supply house so
all bets are off if the big box versions don't match the quoted rough in
dimension as seems to be the case.
Larry Fishel
> I’ve never seen a wall become damaged by condensation from a tank
I was referring to mechanical damage. But yes, I can see where having
particularly destructive tenants (not uncommon I'm sure) could change
things, and a piece of wood mounted to the wall sounds like a
reasonable answer.
Our tank is a good 2-3 inches from the wall and my 400 pound BIL
hasn't broken it yet...
elec...@gmail.com
SOOOOO...an OFFSET FLANGE will move 1 1/2" away from the wall...so chip the finish floor (its not a lot) OR. catch it on the top off framing...but 10 3/4" with drywall..baseboards. TOTAL for a 12" tank.
