empty electrical box behind drywall
sid
might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to
the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the
opening with tape, mud and paint.
In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break
the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and
terminate.
Is there anything wrong with this ?
Charlie Darwin
news:d209f508-e898-41de...@e23g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
I'd just cover the empty box with a decorative switch plate- get one with no
holes in it.
Steve Barker
Nothing but the possibility of someone pushing something through the
tape accidentally.
s
Doug Miller
As long as there are no electrical splices in those boxes, there's no
electrical code issue that I'm aware of. I do see one other problem, though,
and that's finding the boxes later if you decide you want them. Why not either
(a) cover the boxes with blank cover plates instead of tape & mud, or (b) just
put receptacles there to begin with? You can never have too many... and what
you propose seems like a lot of unnecessary work for very little discernable
benefit.
RickH
Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall
plate. You dont want to "bury" the box.
sid
Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the
floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra
receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some
day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles
placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering
leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative.
Thanks
aemeijers
boxes later, connected to wire pushed up from the existing box below.
Note that if you do add this counter later, and add cabinets below, you
will need to have the old outlets move forward and be accessible in the
cabinets, and not bury them. Or if you will be covering the lower part
of the wall, you can just make whatever holes you want- leave slack on
the feeds to the low outlets, and if and when you add the counter and
high outlets, you can just move the wire. In a basement, you are
probably feeding from the top of the wall anyway, so you can just
disconnect the wire down below, and pull it back up through the hole you
cut for the old-work box. If the wire is behind drywall, no need for
conduit.
3 or 4 different ways to handle the problem, and none of them difficult.
No need to bury an empty box with a fragile paper cover.
--
aem sends...
Steve Barker
stud, and drywall right over them. Be sure to map them accurately, and
you have a plan. Then if you need them, punch them out by rotozipping
on the inside of them and trimming with a util knife as needed.
s
Josh
>> On May 15, 12:17 pm, RickH <passp...@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote:
>>> On May 15, 9:19 am, sid <sidwe...@alexian.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I
>>>> might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to
>>>> the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the
>>>> opening with tape, mud and paint.
>>>> In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break
>>>> the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and
>>>> terminate.
>>>> Is there anything wrong with this ?
>>> Like others said, mud it normally and put on a blank cover wall
>>> plate. You dont want to "bury" the box.
>>
>> Our intention was to place receptacles along the walls 12" from the
>> floor (like the rest of the house), then we talked about placing extra
>> receptacles 46" high incase we wanted to place a counter there some
>> day. But, if we did not install the counter, then the receptacles
>> placed for counter use would be an eye-sore. I was considering
>> leaving empty boxes behind the drywall as an alternative.
>>
Assuming you're going to put the 12" high outlets in the same stud
bays as the future 46" high ones, I'd just carefully plan the staple
locations for the wires to the ones you put in -- in the future, you
can simply cut a hole 46" high, cut the wire to the lower outlet and
pull it into an "old work" box in the new hole. The bonus is that
you'd be able to abandon and cover the lower outlets (if no energized
wiring in them).
I definitely wouldn't just tape over a hole -- I guarantee the first
person to innocently lean against that wall will put their elbow in
*just* the right place and poke through, leading to embarassment all
around.
Josh
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall
for a reason
Steve Barker
Doug Miller
>Not a good idea - the box ears are to be on the outside of the drywall
>for a reason
"New work" boxes don't *have* ears.
The Daring Dufas
BZZZZZZ! Wrong! New metal boxes have ears that can
set back for wall thickness or removed completely.
Your standard plastic nail in box usually has no
ears. Metal boxes for conduit usually have no ears,
like the standard "handy box" or the standard 4"
or 4 11/16" square boxes. Metal switch boxes for
Romex are going to have removable ears unless ordered
without. The metal octagon box won't have ears.
I used to work for an electrical supply house. I
filled and shipped thousands of orders for electrical
supplies. I didn't just push paper, I got my hands
dirty handling tons of that stuff.
TDD
tra...@optonline.net
wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
So, let's rephrase the problem the other poster pointed out with
putting new in boxes now and going over them with drywall. When you
later cut them out, the boxes will be set back ~1/2" from where they
should be.
If it were me, I'd just plan on using old work boxes later on. IMO,
a more useful thing to do rather than bury hidden boxes would be to
leave a pull string in the wall going from where you would later need
to pull romex to the location of the proposed outlet.
The Daring Dufas
The sensible thing to do would be to go ahead and
install the wiring and outlets and be done with it.
The time to do the wiring is when you have open walls.
The wiring and devices aren't that expensive and it's
a lot easier and A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE to do it then.
Of course, you may consider what your time is worth
if you're doing it yourself. I can assure you that if
you call in an electrician later, you'll spend a lot
of money.
TDD
RickH
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that
all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire.
A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with
drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough
in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden"
blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if
OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely
because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate
on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP
will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall
plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel
cover before drywalling over it.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<pass...@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote:
>
>No its conduit. In fact new-home union electricians here insist that
>all drywall BE UP and house be lockable before they pull their wire.
>A properly done conduit rough-in can be wired just as easily with
>drywall up. But buried boxes are a huge big no-no with conduit rough
>in, the worker needs clear pulls from box to box with no "hidden"
>blockades. Best to use normal mudding plate and blank cover. But if
>OP insists on no wall plate then just leave off mud plate entirely
>because he will have a lot of patching to do later to slip a mud plate
>on anyway then remud (or use an over sized wall plate). Also the OP
>will be the only one who ever knows this box exists without a wall
>plate. If wire is pulled before burial, then I'd use a flat steel
>cover before drywalling over it.
Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit???
The only time conduit is uded in residential wiring here in Ontario is
for exposed wiring, particularly unfinished basement and garage where
wiring is exposed top possible damage, unfinished ceilings where
someone may hang things on it, or in steel studs (occaisionally)
RickH
Chicago and the majority of its suburbs require steel conduit. Even
if your town does not require conduit most homeowners here insist on
it or the builders just use conduit anyway, its the norm, so few
builders (even if they could) use romex.
The Daring Dufas
Here in the South East the majority of homes are
wired with Romex. Some high end homes may be wired
in conduit but it's rare. Most commercial buildings
in this area are wired with conduit or MC cable but
if it has wooden studs, it could be wired with Romex
depending on the municipality or inspection department.
Some of the wiring I've seen in the backwoods where
there is no such thing as an electrical inspector is
downright scary but the power company won't hook up
to something that is obviously dangerous.
TDD
Doug Miller
>Where are you that residential conceled wiring is done in conduit???
Probably Chicago -- something about a big fire a few years back made them
kinda paranoid...
Steve Barker
There's NO conduit involved in residential wiring here in the KC metro
area. Probably not in the 4 state area that i know of. I can't imagine
trying to wire a house in conduit. What a pain and waste of time.
s
RickH
>
> - Show quoted text -
People are always surprised when I tell them that electricians around
here want to be both "the first ones in and the last ones in". The
electrical rough in guy is here just after being "under roof" he does
all rough in and drops only one or two outlets for everybody else
later. Then plumbing, heating/AC, insulation, drywall. Lastly the
final electrician wires the house, sometimes even after the painters
and cabinets. Flooring is last of course.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
I can't immagine wiring a "stick-built" house with conduit. Concrete,
I can see.
Even steel-stud residential would be a complete pain. Generally
plastic bushings are installed in the through-holes of the tin stud to
keep the romex from shredding..
To use conduit EVERYTHING would have to come up or down throuh sills
and plates - virtually nothing could traverse walls. Would easily
DOUBLE the amount of wire required in the average home - particularly
in 2 story or split level designs.
In commercial with tin studs virtually everything is suspended ceiling
and the conduit can be run anywhere without having to peirce walls
etc.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
More likely Payola. The conduit and wire suppliers are "connected" -
and absolutely no question, the unions are.
The Daring Dufas
I'll bet it has something to do with theft of wire.
We have a very big problem with metal theft around
here. Copper and aluminum will disappear from a job
if there is no security. I can go out to a home to
service an AC unit and look next door at a vacant
house and the AC unit will be stripped of copper and
aluminum. It's not just Negroes doing it, some smart
ass Honkeys from South Alabama were crawling under
cars at large parking lots and stealing the catalytic
converters. When my friend and I install HVAC systems
at an unoccupied home, we won't set the condenser
until the last minute. We have a very short stub for
the line set outside which we seal and pressurize with
nitrogen. It makes it easy to tell if a carpenter pokes
a hole in our tubing. We can't even leave a whip on the
service disconnect or some anus will come along and
steal that too.
TDD
sid
>
> - Show quoted text -
Location: Suburb west of Chicago (everything here is in conduit)
From everyone’s input, probably the best solution would be to place
the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off.
But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future
if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out
and cover it up ?
Thanks
aemeijers
> the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off.
> But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future
> if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out
> and cover it up ?
>
> Thanks
But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you
decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the
front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets
and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As
long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about
abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage,
you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else
built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down
there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the
circuit has the headroom.
--
aem sends...
sid
> > the two receptacles one at 12" and another at 46" and finish them off.
> > But run two separate conduit runs down to each box, then in the future
> > if you wanted to abandon one of them just unhook or pull the wires out
> > and cover it up ?
>
> > Thanks
>
> Chicago? I'm sorry.
>
> But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you
> decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the
> front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets
> and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As
> long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about
> abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage,
> you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else
> built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down
> there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the
> circuit has the headroom.
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
When you say, "never too many", what would you say what you would put
in.
If the code calls for every 12', would a more desirable distance be
every 6-8' ?
aemeijers
>> But no need for double runs- you can just daisy-chain the boxes. If you
>> decide to abandon the lower outlets later, rather than add rings to the
>> front and make them available in the cabinets, just remove the outlets
>> and the last 3 feet of wire, disconnecting them at the upper box. As
>> long as no live wires end in a buried box, code does not care about
>> abandoned conduit runs. Who knows- when you get to the cabinet stage,
>> you may want to use the lower boxes as junctions to feed something else
>> built into the lower cabinets. Or you may want to put a mini-fridge down
>> there or something. You can never have too many outlets, as long as the
>> circuit has the headroom.
>>
>> --
>> aem sends...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> When you say, "never too many", what would you say what you would put
> in.
> If the code calls for every 12', would a more desirable distance be
> every 6-8' ?
>
where I thought desks, workbenches, entertainment centers, etc, would
be. (Paying close attention to load balancing, of course, and maybe
follow current kitchen practice of alternating outlets being fed by
different breakers.) Lights and outlets should be on separate breakers,
so you aren't in the dark very often. Boxes, EMT, wire, and fixtures are
cheap, compared to the PITA of not having one where you need one.
Difference in labor cost is trivial, especially if you are doing the
rough-in, and only having a licensed electrician do the hookups. (Or are
you hooking these to the panel yourself?)
By the way- map the heck out of everything before the walls are closed
up, including maybe writing the breaker number on the back of the covers
before you install them.
--
aem sends...
Tekkie®
>
> While finishing my basement, Can I place electrical boxes where I
> might want to place receptacles in the future ? Leave the cutout to
> the surface and "empty" conduit over to a live box. Then cover the
> opening with tape, mud and paint.
>
> In the future, If I ever want to place a receptacle there, just break
> the tape with a utility knife and push wire back to the live box and
> terminate.
>
> Is there anything wrong with this ?
I know I'm coming in late but... In my case the boxes will never be where they
should be... The boxes will never be where I expect them to be - in spite of
all documentation.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.
Tom Horne
Empty boxes are perfectly legal. That means no wires as well as no
receptacles. If there are wires in the box then it is a pull or
junction box and it must be accessible without removing structural
components or finish materials.
--
Tom Horne