clogged drains and, SAND?

[John Emery]

Howdy,

We've lived in this house for about 6 months, it's in the Sunset
District of San Francisco. The sunset if you don't know, was once sand
dunes, all the way to the ocean.

The house was built in 1939, and looks to have the original cast iron
drain pipes in the basement.

The house has a center patio. That is, a room in the middle of the
house, which is outside. The patio drain / kitchen sink drain were
clogged about a month ago. Plungers, et cetera didn't work (I didn't
try a snake/auger, haven't bought one yet), but a shop vac in reverse
(blow) did work (blew crap all over the ceiling from the kitchen sink
drain which is adjacent to the patio). One thing I noticed when
clearing out the drain in the patio, there was a bunch of what looked
like beach sand backing out of the drain.

Now, our shower and bathtub are clogged. The shower drain was starting
to slow down, I decided to plunge it last night, and that maneuver only
made things worse. Now, both the shower and tub are completely clogged,
and not draining, and again, I've got sand coming up from the drains.
I've tried having my girlfriend hold one plunger in the tub while I
plunge the shower and vise versa, but to no avail. I'm going to try my
shop vac method tonight. If that doesn't work, a snake. Unless someone
tells me using a shop vac for this is bad for some reason. It really
surprised me when it worked.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of beach sand getting in the
drain pipes of a house. How could it get there? Is it backing up from
the city sewer, or coming in from the vents? If from the vents, which
are simply open at the top, is there anything I can do to stop the sand
from blowing in? Could the sand be the cause of my drain problems?

Thanks very much,
John

[RamblinOn]

clipped

>
>I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of beach sand getting in the
>drain pipes of a house. How could it get there? Is it backing up from
>the city sewer, or coming in from the vents? If from the vents, which
>are simply open at the top, is there anything I can do to stop the sand
>from blowing in? Could the sand be the cause of my drain problems?
>
>Thanks very much,
>John
>
>
>
>

Wow! Doesn't sound good. No knowing much at all about sewers, except
that we have one, I would get with the city first. Entirely possible
that the city side of the line is broken. If it is, they fix it. If
not, you know the problem is on your side. Over time, it seems a slow
running line could accumulate sand from laundry and house cleaning,
although I've never had it happen. Our city has had lots of trouble,
and are replacing main sewer lines and pumps in our neighborhood. The
problem has impacted our neighbors, with repeated backups, but not us.
Mebbe neighbors have bad sewer lines on their side of the sewer, as
their drainage is bad as well.

[mark Ransley]

maybe the watersupply. I put in a main water filter with the clear
casing so you can see the filter , i was suprised at all the junk in
the water

[Speedy Jim]

John Emery wrote:
<SNIP>

> I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of beach sand getting in the
> drain pipes of a house. How could it get there? Is it backing up from
> the city sewer, or coming in from the vents? If from the vents, which
> are simply open at the top, is there anything I can do to stop the sand
> from blowing in? Could the sand be the cause of my drain problems?

Better chance is that there is a fracture in the line underground.
That can allow soil/sand to wash back into the pipe over time.
A snake is usually ineffective with this kind of clog as the sand
simply closes back over the snake. The ShopVac may be better
as is pressure sewer cleaning equip.

Try and get it cleaned for now, but you may wish to have the line
video taped to look for the cause.

As suggested, ask the city for any relief/advice they might offer.

Jim

[Dan G]

Using the shop vac can't hurt. If it is a wet/dry model, use it to suck
on the traps. You may want to look into buying Drain Kings of
appropriate sizes for your plumbing. They will only work well where you
can get them well seated in the line. It would be best to start at the
pipe outside or closest to going out. Get it flowing well. Move
further and further upstream. If you have broken pipe allowing sand in
this will be a temporary solution at best. Speedy Jim is quite right to
suggest camera inspection, but if the pipes are full of debris, the
camera cannot travel. I would still try the Drain Kings first.

Here is a reference. They should be available at any plumbing /
building supply house.
http://www.gtwaterproducts.com/drain.html

--

Keep the whole world singing. . .
Dan G

(remove the 7)

[Jim Mc Namara]

I'm gonna take a shot at this as well, John. Before I used the Shop Vac to
blow out the mess, I'd try to use it and remove it. Since you know you've
got sand in there, adding pressure to it will only cause it to compact
tighter - especially since it's already wet and probably has adhered to soap
scum, kitchen grease, etc. If there is anyway you could take a garden hose
up on the roof and lower it down to below where the outlet for the kitchen
sink drain is - I would try that and see if it helped float and move the
sand out. Have your girlfriend keep an eye on the sink and be sure you're
not filling it up from the roof. I'm curious why the drain in the patio
area is tied to your sanitary sewer? (if it is). If that's the case - that
could be your culprit. These drains are normally connect to a storm sewer
or drain out at a lower point somewhere away from the structure. Speedy Jim
may (unfortunately) be on the money with his assumption of a broken pipe.
Considering the age of the building, a soft sand foundation, some settling
may have occurred and cracked the old cast iron.

However, the only way to get rid of the sand is going to be either water or
pipe removal. Let us know how it works out for you.

Jim

"John Emery" <jem...@millswear.com> wrote in message
news:3F4BA69F...@millswear.com...

[John Emery]

Thanks to everyone who responded, what a great news group (rather, a great bunch
of folks reading / responding)!

Jim, what is it you mean, "take a garden hose up on the roof and lower it down
to below where the outlet for the kitchen sink drain is"? Do you mean drop the
hose down one of the vent pipes? I guess that must be what you mean.

And as far as the patio drain, what you say makes sense. The patio drain IS
definately connected to the sanitary sewer. It seems to me that it shouldn't
be, or that it should be separate.

One thing I didn't mention in my original posting is, all / most of the drain
pipes in the basement, apart from the large main cast iron pipe going into the
concrete slab / floor, appear to be galvanized. That doesn't seem good.
Perhaps the sand is coming up, but isn't the real problem?

Well, at this point, the problem seems beyond my ability to fix. Unfortunately,
Jim, I didn't get your posting until this morning, and last night, I tried the
shop vac method, first in vacuum, then blow, both from the shower, and the tub,
while my girlfriend reluctantly held a plunger in either opposite drain. Since,
she refuses to shower while standing in mucky pipe water (I did), until I can
buy the tools and figure out the problem, et cetera... I sadly had to call a
plumber. He's coming to the house this afternoon.

I guess I'll post another question, after I find out more from the plumber,
like, "Should I go ahead and replace all the drain pipes" and "Should I have the
slab in the basement torn up and the main sewer pipes replaced?" et cetera...

Thanks for your help guys.

John

[NINA FRANKS]

replying to John Emery, NINA FRANKS wrote:
What was the conclusion on this?

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