Using A Not-Correct Sparkplug in Snowblower ?

[Bob]

Hello,

Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug, perhaps.

Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but apperently do
not.

Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.

Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
What "might" happen" ?

Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[trader_4]

That potential problem can be avoided by making sure the replacement
isn't longer than the original. As long as it's not and it otherwise
fits, I'd use it.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/27/2015 10:11 AM, Bob wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug, perhaps.
>
> Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but apperently do
> not.
>
> Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.
>
> Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
> What "might" happen" ?
>
> Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

If the mower one is longer, perhaps might
impact. Some times a wire brush will clean a
spark plug. Quick spray of ether or carb
cleaner will help rinse out the carbon fouling.
I've also used a stiff wire to scrape em out.
I use a give away key ring bent straight with
pliers.



-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[Terry Coombs]

And possibly burn up the engine if the plug is not the correct heat range
.

To the OP - clean that old plug up with a wire brush , open the gap just
enough to file the tip of the electrode flat (points file works swell) and
regap it . That should get you by until you can get a new plug - which you
should do as soon as you can - BUY TWO and put the extra where you can find
it . I have small plastic boxes (useta hold wet wipes at a nursing home)
that are dedicated to one type of machinery's small parts . One for the
chainsaws/weedeater , one for the tractor , one for electronic components
(voltage regs/resistors/caps) and another for OA tips/flux/etc .
Butter tubs work too ... yogurt cups , cottage cheese , any number of
small plastic containers from pill bottles to ice cream gallon tubs ,
they're all over the house if you look .
--
Snag

[Col. Edmund Burke]

"Bob" <rgs...@notme.invalid> wrote in message
news:ma89rg$n03$1...@dont-email.me...

> Hello,
>
> Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug, perhaps.
>
> Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but apperently do
> not.
>
> Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.
>
> Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
> What "might" happen" ?
>
> Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>

#Bob? Have you tried gerbil power yet?

[philo]

Good advice and one can estimate the heat range by simply comparing the two


http://www.globaldenso.com/en/products/aftermarket/plug/basic_knowledge/heatrange/


If the new one looks the same and is gapped the same it should
/probably/ be all right.



However if the plug in there is not too bad though I'd clean and re-use.


Possibly:
The snow blower might just need to be primed

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I use a propane torch. Heat the tip/insulator untill all the carbon
burns off and the insulator is white. With leaded gas sometimes the
tip would go yellow/green if there was too much sulphur in the gas.
Semi-conductor (Lead sulfide?) plugs don't fire too well. (ever heard
of Galena? it was used as the detector in a lot of old "cat's
whisker" crystal radios of yesteryear.)

[trader_4]

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 11:31:56 AM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
> trader_4 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 10:12:22 AM UTC-5, Bob wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug,
> >> perhaps.
> >>
> >> Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but
> >> apperently do not.
> >>
> >> Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.
> >>
> >> Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
> >> What "might" happen" ?
> >>
> >> Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> http://www.avast.com
> >
> > That potential problem can be avoided by making sure the replacement
> > isn't longer than the original. As long as it's not and it otherwise
> > fits, I'd use it.
>
> And possibly burn up the engine if the plug is not the correct heat range
> .
>

BS. Show us one snowblower engine that's been burned up by using a spark
plug with the wrong heat range for a few hours. It doesn't happen, despite
your attempt at FUD.

.

[IGot2P]

I totally agree, unless the new plug is longer put it in and move the
damn snow. Sometime in the future and at your convenience you should
probably grab the correct plug.

[Terry Coombs]

It appears neither of you knows much about IC engines . I stand by my
statement , it is a possibility . Might not be likely , but possible . "Hey
Bubba , these here plugs iz only a little shorter than the plugs we took
outta your Triton motor , less use 'em !"

--
Snag

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Another thing to consider is plug heat range. If it is too hot or too
cold, engine may not run well. Always you can choose regular one or
hotter or colder one with same plug model. For temporary replacement if
it fits and not too long, I'd use it until correct one is available.

[bob_villa]

Wake up Tony...that's what they were just talking about! Snowblower and Lawnmower spackplugs are virtually the same. I bought a snowblower that a kid put a car plug in...broke the camshaft and bent the valve. It's still working 22 yrs later.

[bob_villa]

I must be from New England, 'Spackplugs'!

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/27/2015 1:05 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:17:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2015 10:11 AM, Bob wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug, perhaps.
>>>
>>> Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but apperently do
>>> not.
>>>
>>> Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.
>>>
>>> Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
>>> What "might" happen" ?
>>>
>>> Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bob
>>
>> If the mower one is longer, perhaps might
>> impact. Some times a wire brush will clean a
>> spark plug. Quick spray of ether or carb
>> cleaner will help rinse out the carbon fouling.
>> I've also used a stiff wire to scrape em out.
>> I use a give away key ring bent straight with
>> pliers.
>>
>>
>>
> I use a propane torch. Heat the tip/insulator untill all the carbon
> burns off and the insulator is white. With leaded gas sometimes the

> tip would go yellow/green if there Really? propane torch? Well, I'd
not thought of that for cleaning spark plugs. Have to try that some
day. Yes, I'd heard of galena. Some times there was enough of an
impurity on the surface, you could use small wire, and make a sort
of diode out of it. was too much sulphur in the gas.

> Semi-conductor (Lead sulfide?) plugs don't fire too well. (ever heard
> of Galena? it was used as the detector in a lot of old "cat's
> whisker" crystal radios of yesteryear.)
>> -
>> .
>> Christopher A. Young
>> learn more about Jesus
>> . www.lds.org
>> .
>> .
>

Center posted as courtesy.

[Ralph Mowery]

"bob_villa" <pheeh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ce3e044-cafa-491d...@googlegroups.com...

>
> Wake up Tony...that's what they were just talking about! Snowblower and
> Lawnmower spackplugs are virtually the same. I bought a snowblower that a
> kid put a car plug in...broke the camshaft and bent the valve. It's still
> >working 22 yrs later.

Most small engine plugs are similar. Especially if they are either 2 or 4
cycle types. If the heat range is not hot enough they may foul out after a
while and need cleaning. If too hot they may burn the piston. Not sure how
much hotter or colder they need to be and how long the engine would need to
be ran to do either. If much shorter the spark may not be in the right
place for the engine to run or run very well. If it were mine, I would
check to see if the part in the cylinder was longer. If not, I would try it
and change it out at the first time I could.

[Oren]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:20:48 -0700, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Another thing to consider is plug heat range. If it is too hot or too
>cold, engine may not run well. Always you can choose regular one or
>hotter or colder one with same plug model. For temporary replacement if
>it fits and not too long, I'd use it until correct one is available.

OP could find a cross reference for the plug numbers. I've temporarily
used plugs swapped out an never harmed the engine, in short term use.

The mouse told the elephant: "If it don't fit, don't force it!"

[Oren]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:08:04 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Most small engine plugs are similar. Especially if they are either 2 or 4
>cycle types. If the heat range is not hot enough they may foul out after a
>while and need cleaning. If too hot they may burn the piston. Not sure how
>much hotter or colder they need to be and how long the engine would need to
>be ran to do either. If much shorter the spark may not be in the right
>place for the engine to run or run very well. If it were mine, I would
>check to see if the part in the cylinder was longer. If not, I would try it
>and change it out at the first time I could.

Will changing the plug gap change the heat range or how the engine
runs? OP can cross reference plug numbers,

[Ralph Mowery]

"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:hb8gca5bu9m07uu2p...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:08:04 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

>.
>
> Will changing the plug gap change the heat range or how the engine
> runs? OP can cross reference plug numbers,

The gap will not effect the heat range. It mainly determins if the engine
will run or not run. Too far open and there will not be enough voltage to
jump the gap and you mght as well not have the wire connected to the plug.
Too close and there may not be enough spark to ignite the fuel.

If you look at most plugs of the same general type, the heat range is sort
of determined as to how long the part that is outside the cylinder is.
That is the usually white material between where the wire is and the top of
the engine.

[Jerr...@spamblocked.com]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:08:04 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Most small engine plugs are similar. Especially if they are either 2 or 4
>cycle types. If the heat range is not hot enough they may foul out after a
>while and need cleaning. If too hot they may burn the piston. Not sure how
>much hotter or colder they need to be and how long the engine would need to
>be ran to do either. If much shorter the spark may not be in the right
>place for the engine to run or run very well. If it were mine, I would
>check to see if the part in the cylinder was longer. If not, I would try it
>and change it out at the first time I could.
>

One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?

[Ralph Mowery]

<Jerr...@spamblocked.com> wrote in message
news:63bgcahmldgkdqusf...@4ax.com...

>> One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
> HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
> or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?
>

Neither.
The heat range is how hot in temperature the plug gets. Mainly the length
of the length of the plug sticking out of the engine to the plug wire. Too
cold and carbon or other junk builds on the plug usually shorting out the
spark. Too hot and the engine will not shut off when you cut the power to
the plug off. Makes it a diesel type engine.

The resistor part is to help supress electrical noise that you may hear on a
radio. Same as resistor wiring in a car that goes to the plugs.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
After fix , you mean. My snow thrower, weed sacker, lawn mower don't
share sae size plugs.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
My understanding is how much plug body retains heat. Nowadays we have
Platinum or Iridium plugs which lasts LONG time. I usually roast old
plug laying on the rnage heating element. The when it is still pretty
hot install it ahs try to start the engine.

[Tony Hwang]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
> <Jerr...@spamblocked.com> wrote in message
> news:63bgcahmldgkdqusf...@4ax.com...
>>> One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
>> HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
>> or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?
>>
> Neither.
> The heat range is how hot in temperature the plug gets. Mainly the length
> of the length of the plug sticking out of the engine to the plug wire.

Hi,
Isn't that called electrode projection?

[bob_villa]

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 7:33:03 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:

> After fix , you mean. My snow thrower, weed sacker, lawn mower don't
> share sae size plugs.

The weed sacker probably uses something a bit different!

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/27/2015 7:27 PM, Jerr...@spamblocked.com wrote:
>
> One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
> HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
> or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?
>

Been a LOT of years, but IIRC it's the length of the
ceramic insulator in the center. Of course, tomorrow
I'll try and remember to web search the question.

Longer insulator is hotter plug.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Wrong - sorry Ralph. The heat range is determined by the length of the
heat path from the center electrode in the cyl to the plug shell - so
the length of the insulator INSIDE the cyl.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The operating temperature of the electrode is determined by the
length of the heat transfer path from the tip to the shell. That is
the CENTER tip. The ground terminal is "cold" as it is virtually
connected to the head.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 19:45:31 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
><Jerr...@spamblocked.com> wrote in message
>news:63bgcahmldgkdqusf...@4ax.com...
>>> One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
>> HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
>> or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?
>>
>Neither.
>The heat range is how hot in temperature the plug gets. Mainly the length
>of the length of the plug sticking out of the engine to the plug wire.

Nope You almost got it right. See my other posts.\\

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:41:15 -0700, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> <Jerr...@spamblocked.com> wrote in message
>> news:63bgcahmldgkdqusf...@4ax.com...
>>>> One thing I never understood about spark plugs, is WHAT DETERMINES THE
>>> HEAT RANGE? Is it the length of the spark, (but that would be the gap),
>>> or a built in resistor to cut down on the spark voltage, or what?
>>>
>> Neither.
>> The heat range is how hot in temperature the plug gets. Mainly the length
>> of the length of the plug sticking out of the engine to the plug wire.
>Hi,
>Isn't that called electrode projection?

Not quite. A ptojected nose plug sticks the tip of the electrode out
into the cyl where the air/fuel charge helps cool it, giving a wider
heat range. The thermal path between the tip and the shell still
determines the heat range. - but Ralpf has his plug science Bass
Ackwards.

[micky]

A very clear, well-illustrated page. I knew most of this stuff, but it
helps to see it written so clearly.

This is what it says if you use a plug that's too hot:
"When the center electrode reaches 950°C or higher, pre-ignition (early
ignition) occurs, meaning that the electrode serves as a heat source and
ignition occurs without a spark. Therefore, output falls and this can
reach the level of electrode wear and insulator damage."

Only mentions damage to the sparkplug, not the engine. The page is
from a spark plug company and they should know. I've never heard of
Denso Spark Plugs, so does that mean it's a faux page meant to trick us
into damaging our enignes?

[micky]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 19:45:31 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>The resistor part is to help supress electrical noise that you may hear on a
>radio. Same as resistor wiring in a car that goes to the plugs.

I've been trying to get a radio for my snow blower, but I can't find one
with Sirius also.

[micky]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:17:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/27/2015 10:11 AM, Bob wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can't get snowblower going, and think it needs a new sparkplug, perhaps.
>>
>> Thought I had a replacement spark plug for snowblower, but apperently do
>> not.
>>
>> Have a new one for the Lawnmower, though.
>>
>> Any danger in trying it in the snowblower ?
>> What "might" happen" ?
>>
>> Might piston at top dead center hit it, or... ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>

>If the mower one is longer, perhaps might
>impact. Some times a wire brush will clean a
>spark plug. Quick spray of ether or carb
>cleaner will help rinse out the carbon fouling.
>I've also used a stiff wire to scrape em out.
>I use a give away key ring bent straight with
>pliers.

A friend who lives in NYC was forced to sell his Cadillac, for lack of a
place to park I think, and he gave me a spark plug cleaner.

You may have seen an add for these.

AC-powered, and filled with little glass pellets, it blows the glass
against the end of the plug and cleans them up nicely. Takes a minute
or two per plug. Some of the glass bits tend to stay between the
insulator and the shell but come out when tapped.

But with the hot sparks on cars these day, I never clean my plugs and
even if I had a gas garden tools, I'd need a bigger shop to keep this
thing availalbe. So I've only used it twice. (He included extra
pellets but haven't used them yet.)

[trader_4]

Denso is a major Japanese parts supplier, both to OEMS and aftermarket.

While they don't talk about engine damage, pre-ignition could damage
an engine itself, eg the pistons. There is also the issue of the
operating environment, ie is this a high performance, high compression
auto engine accelerating in a 110F desert or a lower compression snowblower
engine running at constant RPM when it's 20F ambient? IMO, the risk
of using a similar
looking sparkplug that fits, for an hour to clear snow is minimal.
To further reduce any risk, the OP could use the substitute plug to
see if he can get it running. Once running, put the original back in
and see if it too works. Probably not the plug anyway.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 1/28/2015 12:15 AM, micky wrote:

>
> A friend who lives in NYC was forced to sell his Cadillac, for lack of a
> place to park I think, and he gave me a spark plug cleaner.
>
> You may have seen an add for these.
>
> AC-powered, and filled with little glass pellets, it blows the glass
> against the end of the plug and cleans them up nicely. Takes a minute
> or two per plug. Some of the glass bits tend to stay between the
> insulator and the shell but come out when tapped.
>
> But with the hot sparks on cars these day, I never clean my plugs and
> even if I had a gas garden tools, I'd need a bigger shop to keep this
> thing availalbe. So I've only used it twice. (He included extra
> pellets but haven't used them yet.)

I remember them. Long ago in another life, I used to take the plugs out
at 5000 miles, clean them and replace them at 10,000. Now they easily
last 100k. Heck, the last 5 cars I traded with original plugs, battery,
exhaust system.

[Oren]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:15:46 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>You may have seen an add for these.
>
>AC-powered, and filled with little glass pellets, it blows the glass
>against the end of the plug and cleans them up nicely. Takes a minute
>or two per plug. Some of the glass bits tend to stay between the
>insulator and the shell but come out when tapped.

Local gas stations in the 60's, that did car repairs used a Pneumatic
Spark Plug Cleaner. HF has one....

<http://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic-spark-plug-cleaner-32860.html>

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:15:46 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

I used to clean a lot of plugs with the Champion plug cleaner decades
ago - back when all engines were made of Cast Iron - and so were Chevy
pistons. The engines back then could survive the odd grain of sand or
glass bead going through - and seldom made 100,000 miles regardless.
Todays aluminum engines? I wouldn't THINK of using a sandblasted plug.
Particularly on today's plugs. Too much chance of stray beads staying
in the plug, coming out in the engine, and doing damage.

Wax the plug cleaner up and set it beside your restored tire inflator
in your "Man Cave" as a conversation piece.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

My 19 year old p[ickup with almost 3330,000km on it has had the plugs
changed - not sure about the battery - it's still an OEM battery but
may have been replaced before I got it. Valve covers have never been
off, original exhaust and rear brakes even.

When I started in the trade brakes seldom lasted more than 3 years of
easy driving, exhausts lasted a year or two at best and plugs were an
annual tune up item at best. If you made 100,000 miles without at
least one major overhaul you were doing VERY well.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:02:59 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

The big problem is pre-ignition can easily progress to detonation and
burn a piston. Not as likely on a snowblower in the winter as on a
dust-stuffed lawn mower in the summer - but not impossible,

>Only mentions damage to the sparkplug, not the engine. The page is
>from a spark plug company and they should know. I've never heard of
>Denso Spark Plugs, so does that mean it's a faux page meant to trick us
>into damaging our enignes?
>

Denso - that's short for NipponDenso - which is a very large Japanese
auto-electric company and one of 2 OEM manufacturers for Toyota spark
plugs. Not sure about present, but at least at one time in the past
NipponDenso was majority owned by Toyota. Toyota's second source for
plugs was NGK. I do tend to see more NGK than NipponDenso in the
North American built Toyotas.

[Terry Coombs]

You can say it until you're blue , some just can't grasp the concept of
heat transfer path . Shorter path equals colder plug , longer is hotter .
Ever seen the top of a piston subjected to extreme pre-ignition ? I've seen
holes ...
--
Snag

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 17:48:50 -0600, "Terry Coombs" <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:

I have too, What you are possibly not catching is HE is saying it is
the length of the insulator OUTSIDE the engine - from the shell to the
terminal. He is WRONG - I'm sure you will also agree. It is the
insulator INSIDE the cyl.

Remember - I've been a mechanic for decades and taught motor vehicle
technology at the post secondary and secondary level.

[Ralph Mowery]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:o50jca1nk67cfl9ka...@4ax.com...

>> I have too, What you are possibly not catching is HE is saying it is
> the length of the insulator OUTSIDE the engine - from the shell to the
> terminal. He is WRONG - I'm sure you will also agree. It is the
> insulator INSIDE the cyl.
>
> Remember - I've been a mechanic for decades and taught motor vehicle
> technology at the post secondary and secondary level.

I admitt I was wrong in my statement about the outside of the plug. The
outside of the cylinder part of the plug does get rid of some of the
heat,but it is mainly the part that is inside the cylinder of the plug that
determins the heat range.

I mainly had it backwards to start with.

[JAS]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
the last 5 cars I traded with original plugs, battery,
>> exhaust system.
> My 19 year old p[ickup with almost
>

I am still driving my 1968 Chevy K10 suburban 4WD, no power brakes or
steering, manual 4 speed. Runs good, had a 307 I believe but I had a 350
put in about 20 years ago--I have about 150,000 miles on it but may have
to retire it as I need a steering gear for it and they are hard to find.
I use it in the winter or as my fishing transportation in the summer.

JAS

[bob_villa]

...and this has something to do with spark plugs or the heat-range there of?

[JAS]

Sorry