neighbor's fence partially on my property

[Don Wiss]

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

[Doug Miller]

Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in
news:brmgs8h05r2sieugb...@4ax.com:

> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
> issue.
>
> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
> right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

[The Daring Dufas]

Did you ask your local inspection department? Or confer with a real
estate specialist? o_O

TDD

[DerbyDad03]

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?

[nestork]

I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have
him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in
writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that
distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in
case it ever becomes an issue.




--
nestork

[Ken]

I agree with most of the others, you should talk with your neighbor
first. As for me, if the issue was 1 1/2 inches, I would tell him about
it and ignore it for now if it was established as a fact. You are not
forfeiting your property to him, just not objecting to a miniscule issue.

Finally, I am not so sure you have the right to cut off tree limbs that
hang over your property line. Most cities say you have that right if
they prevent you from using your property, but not for a simple
overhang. Can you imagine what most trees would look like if everyone
did what you proposed??

[David L. Martel]

Don,

Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal. It's not clear in your
posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
options.
You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
heal whatever ill feelings exist.
You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
This shouldn't be expensive.
You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

Dave M.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Doug Miller <doug_at_mil...@example.com>
wrote:

>Don Wiss wrote:
>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>
>One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
>**INCHES** ?

Back yards aren't very big here in Brooklyn. And as I wrote, his fence
won't line up with the fence I'm putting across the back for the part that
does not overlap.

>You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
>all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

I am absolutely sure. I have at this point only told his architect. He did
not respond. I'm doubt the owner had anything to do with it. It was most
likely the contractor's fault.

The fellow is new to the neighborhood. He still hasn't finished the now
three year renovation project that he undertook when he bought the house.

[DerbyDad03]

Are you sure that most cities have a "right to use" language in their ordinances? That is not how I have always understood it.

I have always thought that it worked like the first question at this site:

http://realestate.findlaw.com/neighbors/conflicts-involving-trees-and-neighbors.html

Just how would "right to use" be defined? If a neighbor's limb was scraping my roof, it wouldn't prevent me from using my roof or any other part of my property. Does that mean I can't cut it to protect my investment?

If the limb overhung my driveway and dripped sap and bird droppings on my vehicles, it wouldn't prevent me from using them or my driveway. Does that mean I can't cut them back so that I can enjoy my vehicles, not just use them?

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:11:37 +0200, <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have
>him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

What does the surveyor have to do with this. We both used the same
surveyor. There can be no dispute over the surveyor's accuracy.

>If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in
>writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that
>distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in
>case it ever becomes an issue.

Maybe.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, "David L. Martel" <mart...@frontier.com> wrote:

> Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal.

That is a good point. Though it wouldn't exactly be destroying.

> It's not clear in your
>posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
>sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
>options.

One of the problems is the neighbor cannot move the fence. After he put it
up he piled over two feet of soil on his side. It is a cedar fence. I
gather at some point it will rot and the soil dump onto my yard.

> You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
>fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
>heal whatever ill feelings exist.

Possibly. But I still have a mismatch between the part of my back yard with
this fence and the rest of my back property line.

> You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
>may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
>There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
>This shouldn't be expensive.

There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit. There is no need for a
setback. With backyards that are 20' x 29 5-3/4" a setback wouldn't make
sense. There is a setback for a/c condensers that no one follows. There is
no requirement that the good side face the neighbor. It is only fence
etiquette.

> You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
>order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
my yard. Very simple to do.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>On Doug Miller <doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>>You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
>>all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.
>

>There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
>exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
>foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

[dadiOH]

gfre...@aol.com wrote:

> There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
> exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
> foot is about as good as they get.

Surely you jest. I did fractions of an inch over 40 acres with a plane
table and alelaide. I got within 6" over 250 yards on my property with a
1x2 with two nails in the end.
__________________


> They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
> misplaced.

Nevertheless, that is still the reference point.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[DerbyDad03]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:43:00 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
>
> <doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
>
> exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
>
> foot is about as good as they get.
>

> I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3
>
> surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall
>
> bucket.
>
>
>
> If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is
>
> arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is
>
> usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in
>
> developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the
>
> county.

>
>
>
> They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
>
> misplaced.
>
>
>

> I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy
>
> just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as
>
> gospel.
>
> Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a
>
> dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.

About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.

I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.

To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.

Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.

It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

[dadiOH]

Both surveys show the line in the same place, right? And despite that, they
encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I have no idea what the law is relative to this but law is usually rational
and follows common sense. Those lead me to two beliefs:

1. You can't just chop away

2. You can force them to move the fence and reimburse you for any expenses
you may incur in doing so.

What they *should* have done is set the fence into *their* property to
bypass the pole. That or get the utility company to move the pole
sufficiently onto their lot so they could put the fence on the line and
clear the pole.

If you haven't already done so, sending them a registered letter with return
receipt might be in order; just state that their recent construction has
encroached on your property and tell them to rectify it within x days/weeks.

After that, lawyer time, good luck.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:10:51 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
>
>>There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
>>height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit.
>

>Talk to the neighbor, express your concerns. If he tells you to go
>fuck yourself, call code enforcement and ask them to enforce the code.
>They have the power to make him move the fence or face fines.

There is no question that I can have him get in trouble for having the
fence too high. But I am not aware of any building code that says the city
will step in if the fence if over the line. But maybe there is.

I just e-mailed the contractor. I had been trying to not rub him the wrong
way. He has some capabilities that not all contractors have. I have been
hoping to hire him for projects at my house. This e-mail may burn my
bridges with him.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:

>Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?

Correct.

>And despite that, they
>encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where
the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I
discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy
put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured
to see what was going on.

[chaniarts]

perhaps. will parts of the fence fail because you sliced off 1.5" of a
3.5" post, and will you have to pay to make your neighbor "whole"?

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

In article <XnsA1E97404A91...@78.46.70.116>,

at this point since he pointed out the "error" to the neighbor and the
neighbor acknowledged the error, it's the neighbors problem

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

In article <brmgs8h05r2sieugb...@4ax.com>,

in this litigious age, I would ask your insurance agent if there are any
legal ramifications to this encroachment. ie, someone hurts themselves
on the neighbors fence, but it's in your yard, who is responsible?

[Ashton Crusher]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
wrote:

I think you would be on shaky legal grounds. From what you said you
knew when it was being built that it was on your property yet you let
them build it there. A court could rule that you effectively gave
them an easement by doing nothing to stop it when you could have. Not
knowing how the court might rule I'd not be cutting up someone's
fence. Why can't you just line your extension up with their fence? Is
it a concern that part will be on their property? If so, you and your
neighbor can just give each other a written easement for the others
fence. I don't recall the specifics but I'm pretty sure I've seen
something in the legal documents when I bought my house and it was
about how the fence was built straddling the property lines of
something or other about it to cover this issue.

[Ashton Crusher]

I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
he had the opportunity implied acceptance. Sort of like the supposed
rule of traffic accidents, the person who had the last real chance to
avoid the accident may be found liable even if it was the other guy
violating the traffic law.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>>
>> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>>
>> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>>
>> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>>
>> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>>
>> issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
>>
>> right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
>>
>> attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
>>
>> doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
>>
>> where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
>>
>> have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
>Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.
>

I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

[EXT]

"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
news:brmgs8h05r2sieugb...@4ax.com...

> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
> issue.
>

Is this fence a one sided fence with posts on one side and finished surface
on the other? In many regions one is required to place the posts on the
owners property and have the finished side facing the neighbor's side on the
property line. If a dispute is involved the person with the posts is deemed
the owner. Two sided fences where both sides are finished are often built
straddling on the property line and the costs shared by both property
owners. If one builds a fence at his own cost it is normally built on their
own land, that way they have full control over it. My fences are built about
2" inside my property line so I own them fully.

You may want to contact your local authorities as fencing is a constant
source of disputes that they have to police, they will provide the rules and
regulations that cover fencing in your area. You may find that you own the
fence your neighbor built, but get a ruling first.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:55 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
wrote:

That would slightly change my prior response since you did raise the
issue with them. That said, I think you would still lose if this goes
to court. There is only the most trivial of harm to you from what's
happened and it seems like the issue with your fence could have been
easily fixed at the time it was built had the contractor cared how it
was going to line up - apparently he didn't or he would have spotted
it before putting up your fence. In this kind of civil dispute
there's a good chance the court is not going to focus on
technicalities of the law, otherwise they would order a fence moved
even if encroached even a sixteenth of an inch over the property line.
The court is more likely to look at what an equitably/fair solution
would be after hearing from all parties. If I were the judge knowing
what I know at this point I'd not be likely to order the fence moved.
But another person as judge, god only knows what someone else might
decide. I'm having a hard time picturing how/why your fence was not
able to line up with this one.

[Higgs Boson]

Everybody is having a cow over inches.
It seems to me that the real issue is that the "good" side is facing the neighbor. How complicated would it be to have the fence re-finished such that both sides are "good". That was done without my asking many years ago; the contractor put up a double-sided fence.

Could you look into this, friendly-like, with the neighbor, and if absolutely necessary, put up a share of the cost?

None of this is to denigrate the usefulness of having a correct survey, copy in the bank.

HTH

HB

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 6/24/2013 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my

>> property. [snip]

>>
>>
>> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But
>> do I also
>>
>> have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to
> install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless
> you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard
> rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.
>
> Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they
> should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause
> serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.
>
> Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set
> back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property
> line, but many municipalities don't.
>
> Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you
> pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon
> your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the
> property line discussion go when you brought it up?

+1

Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.

Maybe the best thing to do is sit down with him before the situation
deteriorates and talk this over and let him know - in a polite way what
could happen if the issues aren't resolved between the two of you in
some fashion.

Suggest that you also consider that while you most likely can win this
"battle," you could also precipitate a long running war.

As to the property encroachment... that is a sticky wicket - depending
upon your state, allowing that fence to remain in place for a certain
length of time with or without permission or even your knowledge can
result in the neighbor owning that tiny strip of land by what is known
as "adverse possession."

You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty
years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your
property.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Ashton Crusher" <de...@moore.net> wrote in message
news:tl6hs8pv0rv37qgtt...@4ax.com...

>>
>
> I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
> certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
> while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
> the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
> surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.
>
> If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
> to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
> taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
> get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
> line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
> closest to their property?
>
>

Some people want the 'good' side facing out so their house will look beter
from the road.
There are all kinds of housing rules and regulations in some areas.
Historic districs can tell you what color to paint your house and even which
bushes to plant. That is why I have asked bout that in any area that I have
bought a house. The only rules where I buy a house apply to the whole
county.

[bud--]

On 6/24/2013 8:56 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
> issue.
>

> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
> right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
> attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
> doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
> where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>

> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
> have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>
> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

If a neighbor builds a fence 2 feet onto my property and uses the land
for a specified time I can loose it through "adverse possession".
(Probably not relevant for you.)

--------------------------
I used to believe in surveyors. One of the reasons I lost my faith is a
survey of a small warehouse where both of the long dimensions were about
6' off to the west. One of the lot lines went through a loading dock.

-------------------------
I think very accurate surveys can be done by placing a 'device' at a
know location, like a USGS survey point, and using GPS. The 'device'
broadcasts error signals between the GPS location and the actual
location. But then is the base survey as accurate?

[chaniarts]

isn't that called an hoa?

[DerbyDad03]

I guess this is one of those cases of "just because you never heard of
it doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I quote directly from my town's Town Code document:

(5) The most finished side of a fence must face the adjoining property.

>
> If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
> to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
> taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
> get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
> line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
> closest to their property?

No, no and no.

...Snip...

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <tf0hs8d5rg6as1aqf...@4ax.com>,

So what happens if your fence guy just lines things up with this fence?
Do you lose a lot of your yard? Do you encroach on a third neighbors
yard?
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:

>I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
>to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
>neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
>DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
>he had the opportunity implied acceptance.

I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.
The architect designed the fence. No response. We are talking a couple
months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have
now notified the contractor. No response. I really doubt the owner has any
idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the
architect and contractor.

Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and
told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply
acceptance.

[TomR]

Don Wiss wrote:
> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
> property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same
> surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and
> did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that
> is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards
> themselves, it would not have been an issue.
>
> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have
> the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence
> back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability.
> The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding
> a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>
> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do
> I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>

> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I didn't read all of the rest of the posts since this is a long thread. So,
maybe someone else already expressed this, but..., the building codes in
your area usually specify where a fence can go etc. It usually includes
something baout which way the "good" side of the fence must face (usually on
the outside. facing you). And, it usually specifies which side of the line
the fence should go on and whether the fence can or cannot be mechanically
attached to another existing fence.

I tried looking at the onien eCodes but New York and Brooklyn Borough don't
seem to be published online:
http://www.generalcode.com/ecode360/NY .



Good luck.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>Do you and your neighbor not get along?

I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
parallel we would never meet on the street. His Japanese wife is really
into privacy. She won't go out into the backyard (except to replace the
absorbent sheet at the bottom of the doggy chalet). She has installed
blackout shades on every window.

>It seems wierd that you pointed
>pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your
>property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property
>line discussion go when you brought it up?

I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason
they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on
my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their
property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the
pole.

[Don Wiss]

Unlikely. The back wall is fully integrated into the side fence. The fence
would still have two 4x4s that are behind my next door neighbor's property.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:09:13 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:

>I think you would be on shaky legal grounds. From what you said you
>knew when it was being built that it was on your property yet you let
>them build it there.

NO. I stopped them from putting it 2 3/4" over and told them to not put any
of it on my property. I showed them where the line is.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, EXT <noe...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:

>Is this fence a one sided fence with posts on one side and finished surface
>on the other?

Correct. The posts are on my side. His side is totally blank.

[Jon Danniken]

On 06/24/2013 12:19 PM, EXT wrote:
>

> You may want to contact your local authorities as fencing is a constant
> source of disputes that they have to police, they will provide the rules
> and regulations that cover fencing in your area. You may find that you
> own the fence your neighbor built, but get a ruling first.

This is the only logical answer in this entire thread, given the wide
variety of local ordinances. It is literally their job to enforce
property line issues, and once informed of a situation, the onus is
removed from OP entirely (other than the possibility of dealing with a
pissy neighbor).

Jon

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
<doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:

>Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in

>news:brmgs8h05r2sieugb...@4ax.com:

>
>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>

>One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
>**INCHES** ?
>

>> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>> issue.
>>
>> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
>> right to slice the posts and top right at the line?
>

>You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
>all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

Sounds to me like an ass got a free fence - but by rights the fence
should be 6 inches inside the property line according to MOST zoning -
which requires 2 fences 1 foot apart to separate properties UNLESS
there is an agreement to share the fence. What the OP SHOULD do is
finish his side of the fence to his satisfaction and shut up. He
didn't have to pay gor holes and posts.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>>

>> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>>
>> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>>
>> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>>
>> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>>
>> issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
>>

>> right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
>>
>> attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
>>
>> doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
>>
>> where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
>>
>> have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>>
>>
>>

>> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>

>Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.
>

>Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.
>
>Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.
>

>Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?
Best? case scenario (for the neighbour) is he pays to put a "good
side" on the other side of the fence too.

[David L. Martel]

Don,

> I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree.

Did you raise this issue with the property owner? Does your neighbor know
that you are unhappy with the fence? Surely you didn't let them build the
fence without complaining to the owner, not some workmen. Why didn't you
order the workmen off of your property?

Dave M.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 5:39:58 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
>
> >to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
>
> >neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
>
> >DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
>
> >he had the opportunity implied acceptance.
>
>

Nonsense. Someone can't build a fence on your property just
because you didn't go over there and stop them from doing it.
All that matters is where the property line really is. If the
fence is on a neighbors land it goes.

>
> I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.
>
> The architect designed the fence. No response.

I don't know why you would notify the architect. You should have
sent a registered letter to the OWNER.

We are talking a couple
>
> months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have
>
> now notified the contractor. No response.

Again, why haven't you notified the owner?

I really doubt the owner has any
>
> idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the
>
> architect and contractor.
>

Seems rather odd that you know who handled what and are
engaging with the wrong people.

>
> Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and
>
> told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply
>
> acceptance.
>
>
>

Where were you when it was going up? If that 1.5" really bothers
you so much, why didn't you go over there and tell them to stop.
Tell whoever was putting it up that you want to speak to the owner.
Call the police if you had to.

Unless there is some special issue here, being off by 1.5" doesn't
seem like it would upset most folks. I sure would not cut any part
of the fence.

You stated that they went the 1.5" so that they could clear a telephone
pole that is on their property. And that if they had put the good side
toward you, that the extra 1.5" would not be necessary. So, I would go
to the local code officials and get a copy of the fence ordinances. As
DerbyDad said, in many places if there is a difference in the two sides,
the better looking side has to face out. If you're luck, that could be
the case where you are. Then they have to redo it anyhow.

If that route doesn't work, then I guess you have to figure out how
important that 1.5" is to you and if you want to have an angry neighbor.
If it was a foot, even half a foot, I could see it. With 1.5" I'm having
a hard time.

[tra...@optonline.net]

The neighbor would also have to be paying the taxes on the
1.5" of property, which seems unlikely.

>
> You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty
>
> years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your
>
> property.

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:28:46 PM UTC-4, Ken wrote:
>
> > Don Wiss wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>
> >
>

> > > They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>
> >
>
> > > them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>
> >
>
> > > the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>
> >
>
> > > not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>
> >
>
> > > issue.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
>
> >
>
> > > right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
>
> >
>
> > > attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
>
> >
>
> > > doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
>
> >
>
> > > where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>

> > > I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
>
> >
>
> > > have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>

> > I agree with most of the others, you should talk with your neighbor
>
> >
>
> > first. As for me, if the issue was 1 1/2 inches, I would tell him about
>
> >
>
> > it and ignore it for now if it was established as a fact. You are not
>
> >
>
> > forfeiting your property to him, just not objecting to a miniscule issue.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Finally, I am not so sure you have the right to cut off tree limbs that
>
> >
>
> > hang over your property line. Most cities say you have that right if
>
> >
>
> > they prevent you from using your property, but not for a simple
>
> >
>
> > overhang. Can you imagine what most trees would look like if everyone
>
> >
>
> > did what you proposed??
>
>
>
> Are you sure that most cities have a "right to use" language in their ordinances? That is not how I have always understood it.
>
>
>
> I have always thought that it worked like the first question at this site:
>
>
>
> http://realestate.findlaw.com/neighbors/conflicts-involving-trees-and-neighbors.html
>
>
>
> Just how would "right to use" be defined? If a neighbor's limb was scraping my roof, it wouldn't prevent me from using my roof or any other part of my property. Does that mean I can't cut it to protect my investment?
>
>
>
> If the limb overhung my driveway and dripped sap and bird droppings on my vehicles, it wouldn't prevent me from using them or my driveway. Does that mean I can't cut them back so that I can enjoy my vehicles, not just use them?

You're right here. In most locations you can cut tree limbs that overhang
onto your property back to the property line without any justification.
You don't see it done much because usually it's not an issue.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 1:29:14 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:10:51 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
>
> >>height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit.
>
> >
>
> >Talk to the neighbor, express your concerns. If he tells you to go
>
> >fuck yourself, call code enforcement and ask them to enforce the code.
>
> >They have the power to make him move the fence or face fines.
>
>
>
> There is no question that I can have him get in trouble for having the
>
> fence too high. But I am not aware of any building code that says the city
>
> will step in if the fence if over the line. But maybe there is.
>
>
>
> I just e-mailed the contractor. I had been trying to not rub him the wrong
>
> way. He has some capabilities that not all contractors have. I have been
>
> hoping to hire him for projects at my house. This e-mail may burn my
>
> bridges with him.
>
>

It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

[tra...@optonline.net]

You're misinformed as to what courts and judges do. They aren't
there to figure out what is fair.
They are there to apply the rule of law. And I think you will find
plenty of case law that says you can't build something on another
person's property. 1.5" isn't much, but it's also clear why they did
it. By doing it, they got their fence around a telephone poll.
IMO, this would be a slam dunk win, and the fence would have to be
moved. To follow your reasoning, a neighbor could build his house
where it's not supposed to be, then because it's an inconvenience to
redo it, he gets away with it.

[Larry]

"Don Wiss" wrote in message
news:drfhs8h6t9sabvtk6...@4ax.com...

***
Hi Don,

Since the neighbor has piled up 2 feet of dirt on his side of the fence, it
has become a retaining wall. It doesn't sound like this 'retaining wall'
was built to the proper specs to do that job. I'm quite sure that retaining
walls would have very specific specifications and requirements. Might be
that the danger of his yard collapsing into your yard, would mean that it
should be torn down and built to proper 'retaining wall' specs. While he's
rebuilding it to the proper specs, he could build it where it should have
been built in the first place.

Larry

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

I went through this a few years ago.

In California, the law, as I remember it, is weird about the subtleties
surrounding these two types of property disputes:
a. prescriptive easement
b. adverse possession

In the first case, your implied consent allowing the fence to overshadow
your property line can be used in the future to allow a judge to prescribe
an easement (usually for the *subsequent* property owner).

In the second case, the neighbor is knowingly overshadowing your property
line, against your will, and you allow it for a long enough period that
the neighbor actually can lay claim to the land.

In both cases, if you merely write a lease (e.g., for $1 a year), that
allows the overshadowing, you maintain clear rights to the overshadowed
land.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:52:25 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

> Correct. The posts are on my side. His side is totally blank.

Why not just snap a picture?

I do it all the time.

Saves a lot of questions ... (just saying) ...

PS: I snapped pictures of my fence just this week (look in the record).

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
><doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote:
>
>>Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in
>>news:brmgs8h05r2sieugb...@4ax.com:
>>

>>> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
>>

>>One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
>>**INCHES** ?
>>

>>> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>>> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>>> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>>> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
>>> right to slice the posts and top right at the line?
>>

>>You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
>>all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.
>

>There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
>exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
>foot is about as good as they get.
>I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3
>surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall
>bucket.

Then somebody is not doing their job.

A land survey has to "close" within something like 3 inches What you
own is described - accurately- by the survey. The survey is
"referenced" to permanent markers, called monuments, which are also
described and referenced to others. If your property is "out in the
boonies" and the survey is an old survey, it may be inaccurate - but
with the "total statios" a they use today they can be accurate to
within inches over miles of terrain.

Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
correctly.
>
>If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is
>arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is
>usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in
>developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the
>county.
>
>They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
>misplaced.
>
>I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy
>just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as
>gospel.
>Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a
>dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.
>
>

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, "David L. Martel" <mart...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>> Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal.
>
>That is a good point. Though it wouldn't exactly be destroying.
>
>> It's not clear in your
>>posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
>>sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
>>options.
>
>One of the problems is the neighbor cannot move the fence. After he put it
>up he piled over two feet of soil on his side. It is a cedar fence. I
>gather at some point it will rot and the soil dump onto my yard.

So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a
zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have
on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?

If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory
response your only recourse would be the building/planning department
and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he
tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a
retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit
- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.
>
>> You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
>>fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
>>heal whatever ill feelings exist.
>
>Possibly. But I still have a mismatch between the part of my back yard with
>this fence and the rest of my back property line.
>
>> You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
>>may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
>>There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
>>This shouldn't be expensive.

>
>There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The

>height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit. There is no need for a
>setback. With backyards that are 20' x 29 5-3/4" a setback wouldn't make
>sense. There is a setback for a/c condensers that no one follows. There is
>no requirement that the good side face the neighbor. It is only fence
>etiquette.
>
>> You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
>>order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

>
>But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
>my yard. Very simple to do.
>

[DerbyDad03]

Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>> Do you and your neighbor not get along?
>
> I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
> live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
> parallel we would never meet on the street.

Not that this really matters, but I grew up in a row house in Queens. I
lived in the second "house" on the block which meant that where my back
yard ended was the side wall of the first house on the side street. We knew
the people in that house because their kids were same age as us.

When the brick wall of their house needed repointing, they hired a company
that repointed the mortar, then painted the entire wall white and then went
back and painted all of the mortar joints black. When they were done it
looked like white bricks with black mortar.

Why, you might ask. They did it because the white wall brightened up *our*
yard by reflecting the sun much better than the dark brick wall. That's
what neighbors did for each other when I was growing up.

If this link to Google Street View works, you should see a white wall on
the side of a row house in the center of the page. That's the painted wall
and the house with the "A" in front and the black roof was where I grew up.


www.tinyurl.com/queensrowhouse

BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
out of there.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
wrote:

>The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

>They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
>them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
>the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
>not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
>issue.
>

Check your local regulations. Some say the good side must face the
outside of the yard. It may not apply on a property line, but does on
the outside by a sidewalk.

In any case, it sounds like your neighbor is self centered and does
not give a damn about you or your property line.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:14:09 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
>on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
>property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
>both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
>correctly.

I put a bit of effort into seeing that I used the same surveyor. I do not
have a land survey. I have what is called a Stakeout Survey. When your
entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:19:51 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:



>

>I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
>certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
>while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.

Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
that exist in many communities.

>
>If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
>to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
>taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
>get to approve your shingles?

In some historical areas, yes, colors have to be approved.

> If you park your cars near the property
>line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
>closest to their property?

Its the right thing to do!

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
to $1250 of land taken.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:01:20 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
<puzz...@ameritech.net> wrote:



>
>Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
>neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
>will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
>permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
>first place.
>

What inspection? Not every permit required an inspection. I have two
permits and never had anyone even drive down my street. They just
take your money for a roof, shed, some other smallish items.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
>and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
>talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly
put the fence on my property.

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:23:06 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a
>zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have
>on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?

Do we have zoning? I'm a R6B zone. It won't divert water onto my property.
The fence will keep it on his side. The biggest effect of his fill is the
silver maple won't like have the soil level raised above much of its roots.

>If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory
>response your only recourse would be the building/planning department
>and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he
>tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a
>retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit
>- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.

The fence over height is simple. I call 311 and the building inspector
comes and measures. The only way to reach him is snail mail or walk around
the block and ring the door bell. But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the
contractor and architect that did this.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:44:21 +1000, Larry <lar...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Since the neighbor has piled up 2 feet of dirt on his side of the fence, it
>has become a retaining wall. It doesn't sound like this 'retaining wall'
>was built to the proper specs to do that job. I'm quite sure that retaining
>walls would have very specific specifications and requirements. Might be
>that the danger of his yard collapsing into your yard, would mean that it
>should be torn down and built to proper 'retaining wall' specs. While he's
>rebuilding it to the proper specs, he could build it where it should have
>been built in the first place.

All very interesting. I had not thought of the retaining wall aspect of
this. On all three sides he has done this. I have wondered why he used
cedar. I'm putting up mahogany fences. It is not that much more expensive
than cedar. And you get a 50 year life instead of 12 years. And that is not
including the accelerated rot you will get from the constant moisture
contact of the soil and cedar.

And to top if off there was no finish put on the cedar. Why the difference?
He used a general architect and general contractor. I used a landscape
architect that specializes in fences.

Here is a picture of the fence from right after it went in:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:05:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:
>>I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
>>certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
>>while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.
>
>Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
>that exist in many communities.

There is no ordinance in NYC about which way a fence faces. Etiquette is
you face the good side out. For my side fences, that are being constructed
now, one side neighbor insisted I face the good side to them. I was
planning to anyway. I learned fence facing etiquette when I was six years
old. It happens that my side fences have two good sides. And while they
have the front, my side is actually more interesting.

One difference is I have to live with my side neighbor. I would say that
practically no one on my block has any idea who their back side neighbor
is. All properties are fenced in.

I can't imagine my back side neighbor staying there for long. Despite their
three year couple million gut renovation. She is Japanese. She is into
privacy. I bet they are the only ones in the neighborhood with electric
blackout shades on every window. At night every window is black. It looks
like they are not at home. With the doggy chalet stuck on the back of the
house she doesn't have to walk the two little yappy dogs. I have no idea if
she ever even leaves the house.

[Unquestionably Confused]

True enough, but... When you apply for the permit, they require a
description of the work to be done and, in turn, tell you the applicable
rules and regs - or should. Regardless, if he was required to obtain a
permit and didn't he is screwed. If he did obtain the permit but failed
to build the fence in the proper manner and location, he is screwed. IF
there are laws/rules/regulations in the city (and now that we know where
he lives, you can bet your sweet ass there are a ton of them) the
building & zoning department will take the lead and make the fence
building neighbor put it right.

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-24-2013 23:05, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.
>
> Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
> made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
> to $1250 of land taken.

Well, that's within the limits of small claims court.


--
Wes Groleau

Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 9:56:44 AM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an issue. All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up. I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over? Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

It is a weekday, call your local building/zoning office and tell then what you have posted here and then tell us what they zoning/building dept says to do.

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-24-2013 20:14, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
> You're right here. In most locations you can cut tree limbs that overhang
> onto your property back to the property line without any justification.
> You don't see it done much because usually it's not an issue.

We had a neighbor once who complained about the "unsightliness" of the
children's toys she saw in our backyard when she looked over the fence.

When we ignored her, she trimmed our evergreen precisely on the property
line. The funny thing is, the result was a big ugly hole in the tree
that could only be seen from her property. Didn't bother us one bit. :-)

--
Wes Groleau

A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-24-2013 14:02, chaniarts wrote:
> perhaps. will parts of the fence fail because you sliced off 1.5" of a
> 3.5" post, and will you have to pay to make your neighbor "whole"?

Not to mention how much sooner will "two feet of soil on his side ...
dump onto [your] yard."

--
Wes Groleau

Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 02:28:05 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:



>BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
>house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
>out of there.

I grew up in a row house in Philadelphia. I'm also glad to be out of
there. Neighborhood had deteriorated quite a bit over the past 30+
years.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:42:12 -0600, bud-- <remove....@isp.com>
wrote:



>--------------------------
>I used to believe in surveyors. One of the reasons I lost my faith is a
>survey of a small warehouse where both of the long dimensions were about
>6' off to the west. One of the lot lines went through a loading dock.
>

Property across the street from me was subdivided and sold. When the
new house was built, they found the property line went through the
garage of the original house. They reached a simple settlement,
redrew the lines, and a few $$$ changed hands.

[DerbyDad03]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:05:41 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.
>
>
>
> Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
>
> made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
>
> to $1250 of land taken.
>
>

OK, now I'm confused. In an earlier post you said:

"When your entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land"

Now you say:

"That comes to $1250 of land taken."

Is it "land" or isn't it?

[tra...@optonline.net]

You're looking in the wrong end of the telescope. Your beef, your
claim, your disagreement is with the PROPERTY OWNER. Sure, if I saw
a fence contractor putting up a fence on my property, I would go over
and tell them that they can't. You apparently did that, talking to
some workers, though maybe not the contractor himself. That's good.
But then you should have immediately gone over and TALKED TO THE
PROPERTY OWNER. Even worse, when they actually started putting up
the fence, you did nothing. At that point, you should have gone over
to the workers, tell them that they are trespassing and that you
won't allow them to put up a fence on your property. Since you
hadn't done so, that would have been a good opportunity to go ring
the neighbor's door bell. And if they insisted they were going to
proceed, you should have called the police.

Now, months later, you still haven't talked to the owner. Instead
you persist in screwing around with their architect and fence
company. If I were either of those guys, I wouldn't waste my time
talking to you. This is a good example of how these nasty neighborhood
feuds start. The neighbor is wrong. But the way you're handling it
is just dumb too. What is so hard about talking to the neighbor?

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:16:09 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:23:06 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>
>
> >So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a
>
> >zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have
>
> >on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?
>
>
>
> Do we have zoning? I'm a R6B zone. It won't divert water onto my property.
>
> The fence will keep it on his side. The biggest effect of his fill is the
>
> silver maple won't like have the soil level raised above much of its roots.
>
>
>
> >If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory
>
> >response your only recourse would be the building/planning department
>
> >and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he
>
> >tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a
>
> >retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit
>
> >- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.
>
>
>
> The fence over height is simple. I call 311 and the building inspector
>
> comes and measures. The only way to reach him is snail mail or walk around
>
> the block and ring the door bell.

And while they were putting up a fence on your property, you
never did that. Nor have you in the two months since.

But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the
>
> contractor and architect that did this.
>
>
>
>

Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
know who exactly did what? How do you know the architect was
aware they were putting a fence on your property? Did you see
plans from the architect that show the fence on your property?
Somehow I doubt that. If I was the architect, I wouldn't
respond to you. Maybe the architect even told his client he
couldn't put the fence where he wanted. You think the architect
then wants to get mixed up in taking sides by talking to you?
Good grief! You need to talk to the PROPERTY OWNER.

[bob haller]

hey park closer so they cant get out of their driveway. So the driveway gets widened, the dirt hauled down to a nearby woods. the city comes calling why did you dump stuff there? it was only dirt. come take a look, see the trash you have 5 days to clean it up, the 50 buck fine is effective today, 100 bucks after the 5 days are up. :( now who would of dumped trash there?

by the way dumping grass clippings is illegal too, but we will overlook it just this once, now everyone looses their yard waste dump....

you can go see the magistrate to get the 50 buck fine removed, while were there lets file a noise complaint against the neighbor....

got back home who turned on the outside garden hose and put it in the window well? flooding the basement.....

oh well i will turn off the valve in the basement so that cant happen again, oh the valve broke got to call a plumber.....

no one ever wins neighborhood wars:(

[chaniarts]

nonsense. the owner has to sign off on anything built. contractors just
don't do things like this on their own, if they want to stay in
business. he must have been informed, at least indirectly, of what and
where it was built, making it his responsibility.

[chaniarts]

the supporting staves will go pretty quickly, increasing the chances
that the extra dirt will collapse. whoever designed this needs to go
back to school, or at least read the code for retaining walls.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Might there be some kind of easement for the electric utility, limiting
how close the fence can come to the pole?


Cindy Hamilton
--

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

> But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the
>>
>> contractor and architect that did this.
>
>Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
>know who exactly did what?

I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And
the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I
know all about the project going on behind me.

> How do you know the architect was
>aware they were putting a fence on your property?

He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:01:15 GMT, hami...@adi.com (Cindy Hamilton) wrote:

>Might there be some kind of easement for the electric utility, limiting
>how close the fence can come to the pole?

There has to be some sort of easement. But how would one find the details?
It is his easement, not mine.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

On Monday, June 24, 2013 9:56:44 AM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:

> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an issue. All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up. I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over? Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Why in tarnation are you refusing to talk to the owner????????? Enough people have said to do that that you are beginning to look like a fool for not taking the advice given to you by a majoity of those responding to your posts!!!

[DerbyDad03]

Does "supervising" mean that the architect is accountable for the contractor's actions? If the contractor does something seriously wrong, would the architect's firm bear the final responsibility?

If the architect's firm is not officially acting as the general contractor, I don't think they would be responsible for the actions of any individual contractors.

[chaniarts]

easements are recorded with the deed. if your city has deeds online, you
can see the easements. if he has a plat of his property, the easement
will be indicated on that. he would probably require a plat to do
anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the
>
> >>
>
> >> contractor and architect that did this.
>
> >
>
> >Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
>
> >know who exactly did what?
>
>
>
> I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And
>
> the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I
>
> know all about the project going on behind me.

You may think you know all about what's going on, but apparently
not. Did you see a plan from the architect that says to put
the fence on your property? If I had to guess, if the architect
called out where to put the fence, he probably showed putting it
exactly on the owner's property. The fence installer saw the
telephone pole, realized that they could avoid it if the fence
was just 1.5" over, figured no one would notice or care, and went and did
it. Now, if you start calling up the architect, the contractor,
do you think either one is going to take your calls and start
discussing with you what did or did not happen? You're not
paying them. If I were either of them, I wouldn't talk to you.

Also, if that architect called out putting up a fence and then
using it as a retaining wall for 2 ft of earth, he must be nuts.
Among obvious flaws, that wood is going to rot. And the fence
may just fall over from the force on it. What does your code
officials say about that?

The way you're proceeding is almost as bad as what they did to begin
with. How would you like it if you're paying an architect and contractors and then the neighbor next door starts engaging with them about what they are or aren't doing, instead of you? If you did that with me, I'd be pissed off. This is bizarre, why you refuse to talk to the owner.

>
>
>
> > How do you know the architect was
>
> >aware they were putting a fence on your property?
>
>
>
> He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.
>
>

And in the end, you beef, your claim, your course of
action is with the PROPERTY OWNER.

[tra...@optonline.net]

I've never seen anything like this. If I hired an architect, contractors, etc
and a neighbor was calling them up about what they did or didn't do wrong with
some contruction project, instead of just coming to me, I'd be pissed. I
mean if a contractor backed into my car, yeah, then I'd just go talk to the
contractor. But if the contractor built a shed, fence, house, whatever on
my property, I would be talking to the property owner. Another example of
how small neighbor problems can get turned into major battles.

[jeff_wisnia]

Don Wiss wrote:
> The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
> They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
> them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
> the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
> not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
> issue.
>
> All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
> right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
> attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
> doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
> where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.
>
> I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
> have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?
>

> Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>

I'm surprised you haven't yet mentioned how much you are paying in
property tax for that 1-1/2 inch strip of land you can't use and moan
about your neighbor not offering to reimburse you that amount each year. <G>

"Good fences make good neighbors."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

[ChairMan]

In news:0vnjs81e1veal46g0...@4ax.com,
Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> belched:

You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
homeowner.
He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

[ChairMan]

In news:391dedd3-21da-4149...@googlegroups.com,
tra...@optonline.net <tra...@optonline.net> belched:

+1
he keeps ducking that question
must be a New York thing

[DerbyDad03]

Actually he has addressed that question. He has said that he would have to
walk around the block to knock on his back yard neighbor's door. Maybe you
don't do that in Brooklyn these days.

He also says he has seen the wife doing things with the doggy chalet and
then going in the house and lowering the black out shades. I guess you
don't yell across the backyard to your neighbors in Brooklyn these days.

I know what it costs to do this type of thing in the NYC area - my brother
and SIL are gutting a house in Great Neck as we type. Architects, permits,
contractors. It's ridiculously expensive. The reason I bring this up is
because this issue does not appear to be happening in a neighborhood where
you'd be afraid to knock on someone's door for fear of getting stabbed or
shot or of having beer cans and bottles lobbed over the offending fence the
next time they have a party.

I know when I grew up in a row house in Queens, we knew just about all of
our neighbors, especially the ones whose yards back up to each other. Maybe
it was due to the fact that we weren't living in million dollar row houses
that we actually interacted with those around us.

I guess times have changed.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:41:55 -0500, "ChairMan" <nos...@thanks.com> wrote:

>You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
>homeowner.
>He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
>*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
>So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

Because I can't do anything until he comes home from work!! I don't want to
deal with the Japanese wife. As a young investment banker he isn't going to
get home early.

There is no phone number listed for this new house. I called the old one in
Manhattan. I got a voice mail that listed off a different number than what
I dialed. I left a message. I walked over there. They were not home.
Actually I'm pretty sure they have not been home for the past week.

[Unquestionably Confused]

If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. Send him a letter with
delivery confirmation. They don't have to sign for it, but the postman
will indicate that it was placed in their mailbox as addressed.

In the letter, lay it out for him and request that he contact you to
discuss the matter. Make it matter of fact and non-threatening. You've
approached with the olive branch in your mitt, the next move (or
non-move) is his.

No matter what happens down the road, you've been the gentleman and made
the first overture to get this matter straightened out between the two
of you.

[Dan Espen]

Nope.
I lived in the Bronx.
Knew all my neighbors and stayed on good terms with all of them.

This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
line. Do the math.

When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.

A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
(Too close to be "legal".)
Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
is filled with wire netting.

So, it's not a New York thing.
New Yorkers have a reputation, but it's not true.
I had some great neighbors and I miss them.
Neighbors fighting starts with idiots.
Idiot's are not confined to NYC.

--
Dan Espen

[micky]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:19:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.
>
>I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.
>
>To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.
>
>Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

Your front lawn should sue your back lawn.

>The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.
>
>It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

You should have made them move the house.

[Don Wiss]

>On 6/25/2013 7:42 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
>> There is no phone number listed for this new house. I called the old one in
>> Manhattan. I got a voice mail that listed off a different number than what
>> I dialed. I left a message. I walked over there. They were not home.
>> Actually I'm pretty sure they have not been home for the past week.

I was quite wrong. When I was making dinner he was out in the backyard
checking the work that had been done today. (My kitchen sink looks out the
window, like all kitchen sinks should.) While the retaining walls on the
perimeter are 3/4" cedar, the retaining wall on the inside, what they can
see, is brick. Today it got wood for seating on top.

9:15 was too late to go over. Beside I was fixing my dinner. I thought they
had moved into the upper three floors. For the past 10-11 months they have
been camping out on the first floor with a hot plate while the upper three
floors are being finished. (Maybe they eat out a lot?) I think I'm also
wrong about the blackout shades on every window. If they were still only on
the first floor the lights would all be out in the upper three floors. What
has been different for the past week is they have not used the electric
blackout shade that is on the ground floor. I've seen it being lowered. It
has not been lowered and the light has been left on. That so the two little
yappy dogs can find their way to the dog door that leads to the doggy
chalet.

I'll have to figure out how to word a letter.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:43:08 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:

>This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
>that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
>encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
>line. Do the math.

What is this 6" from the property line? Fences in my zoning district can be
right at the line.

>When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
>neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
>Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.

There was never a discussion. The only discussion was when the first post
went in I went out and measured it and told the workmen it was on my
property and to move it. The said they were trying to get all of the pole
inside the fence. Because the posts are on my side this was hard to do. I
told them I didn't care if the fence went around the pole. You can see the
hole in the fence for the pole:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

>A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
>(Too close to be "legal".)
>Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
>preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
>is filled with wire netting.

I don't know anything about 6". I know all the neighbors on my street. As
I've written before, no one knows who is on the other street. Except for
one outgoing fellow from the other street that walks his dog around the
block. Most people just walk their dog up and down the block they live on.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, chaniarts <chan...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

>easements are recorded with the deed. if your city has deeds online, you
>can see the easements. if he has a plat of his property, the easement
>will be indicated on that. he would probably require a plat to do
>anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

I found the online deed for the recent purchase. No plat. The property is
described by how many feet from the avenue, etc. The same way the surveyor
describes how your lot fits into the block.

No easement noted on any of the 10 pages. There is a page for an Affidavit
of Compliance with Smoke Detector Requirement. And a page for Customer
Registration Form for Water and Sewer Billing.

By searching on the Block and Lot I don't see any easements either. The
online database doesn't go back as far the pole installation. It seems it
only goes back to 1993.

Looking at my block and lot I do find the easement that I had put on my
house in 2002.

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, chaniarts <chan...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

> he would probably require a plat to do
>anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

There is a filing of the survey he had done. The pole is noted. Just like
it is noted on my survey. But that is simply the surveyor noting a
landmark, like the big tree is noted.

[Dan Espen]

Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> writes:

> On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:43:08 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
>>that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
>>encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
>>line. Do the math.
>
> What is this 6" from the property line? Fences in my zoning district can be
> right at the line.

Forgot that parts of NYC are so tightly packed that
reason flies out the window.
Putting one fence right up against another just seems wrong.

So if your new fence is 2 inches deep and the neighbor is 1.5 inches
over, you're going to loose 3.5 inches.

>>When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
>>neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
>>Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.
>
> There was never a discussion. The only discussion was when the first post
> went in I went out and measured it and told the workmen it was on my
> property and to move it. The said they were trying to get all of the pole
> inside the fence. Because the posts are on my side this was hard to do. I
> told them I didn't care if the fence went around the pole. You can see the
> hole in the fence for the pole:
> http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

I see some kind of gap on the right.


So, above you say there was no discussion,
but you repeat a discussion.
First you say you asked the workers to move it,
then you told them you didn't care.

Sounds like you agreed to them putting it there.

Too late to do it over.

If I were you, I'd build the same kind of fence on the 2 sides of your
yard. Then you save 1/3 on materials and you only loose 1.5 inches.

>>A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
>>(Too close to be "legal".)
>>Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
>>preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
>>is filled with wire netting.
>
> I don't know anything about 6". I know all the neighbors on my street. As
> I've written before, no one knows who is on the other street. Except for
> one outgoing fellow from the other street that walks his dog around the
> block. Most people just walk their dog up and down the block they live on.

Outgoing? Yep, it takes someone to make the first step.

--
Dan Espen

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-24-2013 23:11, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect

>> and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
>> talk to you.
>

> Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
> doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
> contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
> responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly
> put the fence on my property.

Why do you ask a question when you have already decided
you won't like the answer?


--
Wes Groleau

“If it wasn't for that blasted back-hoe,
a hundred of us could be working with shovels”
“Yeah, and if it weren't for our shovels,
a thousand of us could be working with spoons."

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 23:25:50 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:

>So, above you say there was no discussion,
>but you repeat a discussion.

There was never a discussion with the neighbor. Only discussion with the
workmen.

>First you say you asked the workers to move it,
>then you told them you didn't care.

I never ever told them I didn't care. I don't know where you got the idea
that I said I didn't care.